US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[etiolate]

And then you all insist on your cartoon persona of me

Don't blame us. Cause and effect bro

the cause is bias and how your mind deals with conflicting views and information

[thehunter116]

And then you all insist on your cartoon persona of me

You're a shitty less fun version of Benji and you suck.


https://twitter.com/businessinsider/status/951187347458142209?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2Fbusinessinsider%2Fstatus%2F951187347458142209

It's called Nepotism BI.

[shosta]

At least I still like you, etiolate. 

[CatsCatsCats]

benji clearly has fun when he posts, so he’s enjoyable. etiolate just seems to enjoy negative attention and seemingly avoids earnest argument (see putting Nola on ignore and ignoring many, many salient points brought against him to reply to shit posts instead)

[agrajag]

And then you all insist on your cartoon persona of me

Don't blame us. Cause and effect bro

the cause is bias and how your mind deals with conflicting views and information

No the cause is that you are a pompous jackass that posts shit like

"You did not heed my last ultimatum, you have no choice but to surrender make your time"

[etiolate]

benji clearly has fun when he posts, so he’s enjoyable. etiolate just seems to enjoy negative attention and seemingly avoids earnest argument (see putting Nola on ignore and ignoring many, many salient points brought against him to reply to shit posts instead)

Actually, what I want is earnest arguments, but I have never got them. See the Seth rich thing, where my claim was that its very possible he was the leak. My reasons were Wiki heavily hinting so and others have claimed as such. (The journalist that had the source turned out to be Sy Hersh, who is well respected.) However, this gets played out as some conspiracy about Hillary killing Seth. "Have you caught Seth Rich's killer??? HURP HURP"

The idea I get earnest arguments or salient points is completely ridiculous. I get clownshoe shit.

I have fun when I post, but not all the time. The problem is very few of you can figure out when I'm having a laugh at the expense of the cartoon ideas people have and when I'm making a serious point.

If I got earnest arguments, the topic of replies wouldn't be me. It would be the idea.

[El Babua]

So how about Kim dotcom having access to Hillary's deleted emails? 

[CatsCatsCats]

You’ve proved my point by replying to my shit post, check mate

[agrajag]

Bitch, you were using Kim Dotcom as a source!

[etiolate]

Kim said he could show it. If he shows it, then he's a source. Kim is involved with the Internet Party and in the circles who work with Wikileaks. It's not shocking that he might know. He could also be bluffing.

The question is why you think its crazy he might have contacted Rich? Do you think he's just a troll? He ran a big time business. He is a part of that whistleblower community.

The world has shifted a bit and if you don't understand the change then you'll never understand the point of view of people who have.

[shosta]

Are you ok?

[etiolate]

me?

[shosta]

Yeah, I'm worried about you.

[etiolate]

I'm chill. Don't feel like joking about my sanity. This shit is normal.

[VomKriege]

Can empathy bloom on the cultural battlefield ?

[thehunter116]

benji clearly has fun when he posts, so he’s enjoyable. etiolate just seems to enjoy negative attention and seemingly avoids earnest argument (see putting Nola on ignore and ignoring many, many salient points brought against him to reply to shit posts instead)

Actually, what I want is earnest arguments, but I have never got them. See the Seth rich thing, where my claim was that its very possible he was the leak. My reasons were Wiki heavily hinting so and others have claimed as such. (The journalist that had the source turned out to be Sy Hersh, who is well respected.) However, this gets played out as some conspiracy about Hillary killing Seth. "Have you caught Seth Rich's killer??? HURP HURP"

The idea I get earnest arguments or salient points is completely ridiculous. I get clownshoe shit.

I have fun when I post, but not all the time. The problem is very few of you can figure out when I'm having a laugh at the expense of the cartoon ideas people have and when I'm making a serious point.

If I got earnest arguments, the topic of replies wouldn't be me. It would be the idea.

If the shoe fits 

[agrajag]

Can empathy bloom on the cultural battlefield ?

We are strong
No one can tell us we're wrong
Searching our hearts for so long
Both of us knowing
Love is a battlefield

[Mandark]

et, you expect the original Fox News story to be vindicated?

[etiolate]

et, you expect the original Fox News story to be vindicated?

To be precise, it was a local Fox station story, if I recall.

Sy Hersh turned out to be the source on that. The detective's claim was based on Hersh's findings. I believe Sy truly had a source in the FBI, but couldn't get a second confirmation and so did not go public. So it gets out via the detective, and then later by a voice recording of Hersh saying such.

I expect we'll eventually find Rich did leak files to Wiki via some route. I don't think this will be released while we're still in this national hysteria and pursuing this Red Scare.

There is always a chance this is not the case, but I don't see the large gain for the parties involved to create this story. It all goes back to Assange hinting at such rather out of the blue. This was done before Trump was elected and the Russia narrative kicked up. I think the interview was in Aug of 2016. So ideas that the story was made to derail Russia allegations doesn't add up with the time line.

[TVC15]

https://twitter.com/CharlieDaniels/status/948898725140643841

[Mandark]

To be precise, it was a local Fox station story, if I recall.

The local affiliate here ran a segment with the investigator, but the main story (which cited a "federal" source) was posted to Fox News' website.

Original story: http://web.archive.org/web/20170516133954/http:/www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/16/slain-dnc-staffer-had-contact-with-wikileaks-investigator-says.html

Retraction: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/23/statement-on-coverage-seth-rich-murder-investigation.html

[etiolate]

To be precise, it was a local Fox station story, if I recall.

The local affiliate here ran a segment with the investigator, but the main story (which cited a "federal" source) was posted to Fox News' website.

Original story: http://web.archive.org/web/20170516133954/http:/www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/16/slain-dnc-staffer-had-contact-with-wikileaks-investigator-says.html

Retraction: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2017/05/23/statement-on-coverage-seth-rich-murder-investigation.html

Yeah I think this was the fight between the detective and Fox News, arguing over the release timing/exclusivity of the story between the two.

The fed source being second hand, through Hersh.

[Phoenix Dark]

BTW we had that convo at the time, and iirc I posted the retraction. iirc Etoilet you basically shrugged it off, and now are repeating it again as if this wasn't already addressed.

[Mandark]

Yeah I think this was the fight between the detective and Fox News, arguing over the release timing/exclusivity of the story between the two.

Are you saying this was the reason for the retraction or for something else? I'm unclear.

[Broseidon]

Sy Hersh literally just makes shit up and gets it published for example his Syria hoaxes

[etiolate]

I think the retraction was over negative attention and in-fighting over the process. There may have been a difference in claims with the story that they couldn't back up.

The retraction doesn't mean anything now that we know there is a federal source via Sy Hersh.

I shrugged it off because there was no disproving of the story, just a lot of anon sources pushing against other anon sources. Sy Hersh is more trustworthy than anyone involved at the point of the Fox story.

[Nola]

It was presented first on a local Fox News affiliate in DC. The source of the story was Rod Wheeler and Malia Zimmerman's story from Fox News proper. A story that was silently retracted by Fox weeks after it turned out Malia made up the source, the FBI was never involved with the case, the local station made a public condemnation of Wheeler and Zimmerman after they were unable to verify the authenticity of their source and Fox News tried to blame shift by muddying the origin of the story on their network. Followed up by Rod Wheeler subsequently filing a lawsuit against Fox for that very story. Which he alleged Malia, Butowski, with the cooperation of Fox News, slandered him by falsely attributing their poor journalism to him and fired him as cover.

Hersh's response has been that Butowski, one of the people now named in the lawsuit(that the lawsuit also cited text messages that said Butowski, a friend of Trump, was in contact with the White House about properly timing of the story. Which people will remember came an hour after the Trump NBC interview where he admitted to obstruction) took gossip he heard from Hersh and that Butowski "put 2 and 2 together and somehow got 45." Hersh went on to mention that the audio released was selectively edited(shock), to exclude the preceding portion where his source and his own conclusions was that the murder was a botched robbery. That all the gossip entailed was a single person that thought Rich may have been in contact with Wikileaks but offered no evidence to support it.

Malia though has gone on to have great success at Fox News, who must really have otherwise high journalistic integrity, since she was never reprimanded by Fox for that shoddy journalism, and now recently was a featured reporter penning many Uranium One stories. Another notch on the credibility post of Fox News.


....All points explained to etoilet, but that must of been when I was on ignore after he got triggered the first time for pointing out the faulty reasoning of his initial love interest in the Seth Rich story.

[Nola]

BTW we had that convo at the time, and iirc I posted the retraction. iirc Etoilet you basically shrugged it off, and now are repeating it again as if this wasn't already addressed.

The power of confirmation bias at work.

[agrajag]

 

[Phoenix Dark]

This is literal fake news that you're still peddling.

[etiolate]

Sigh.

No.

Assange hints at it. Hersh says he has source. Kim said he had contact.  Nobody fully coming forward. So it's just wait and see.

[Broseidon]

All three are conspiracy theory-pushing cranks tho 

[Nola]

Sy Hersh literally just makes shit up and gets it published for example his Syria hoaxes

And what does it say when he says publicly that the gossip he heard from this source wasn't fit to print?

[kingv]

the fact that you don’t believe the Steele Dossier but think Kim dotcom is reliable source basically proves that everything in the Steele Dossier is true.

The motherfucker changed his last name to dotcom!!!

That’s all you really need to know about him.

This is on the same level as naming your kid Turok in 1998 for that activision contest.

[etiolate]

Hersh and Assange help expose some of the biggest stories of recent times in regards to state abuse and unseemly going-ons. Kim won his court case.

Conspiracy pushing cranks seems an ill fitting label.

[kingv]

assange is now in the piracy biz.  He’s a total joke.

[Nola]

Knowing etoilet isn't aware of his ongoing stupidity is kind of fun:

Hersh warns Butowsky against believing anything Assange might say. You can hear Hersh also give this caution to Butowsky at the end: "It doesn't make it true. It doesn't make it true." Hersh tells NPR he meant that the report might be wrong or might not exist at all.

But Hersh now says he was fishing for information from Butowsky. "I did not talk to anybody at the FBI — not about this," Hersh tells NPR. "Nothing is certain until it's proved. And I didn't publish any story on this."

https://www.npr.org/2017/08/16/543830392/the-role-of-ed-butowsky-in-advancing-retracted-seth-rich-story

[benjipwns]

this would be better with 18-29 year old's having lowest "not sure" too:

[benjipwns]

This is on the same level as naming your kid Turok in 1998 for that activision contest.

[Nola]

George W. Bush at 5% triggers me.

[Great Rumbler]

George W. Bush at 5% triggers me.

Nobody cares about Dubya anymore.

[shosta]

George W. Bush at 5% triggers me.

So many people listing Trump as their pick is so infuriating for this reason. He's been in office for one year and done nothing but be a successful Republican president because we live in prosperous times.

[benjipwns]

Look at all the Berniebros hating Hillary through Bill in that 18-29 bracket.

[benjipwns]

Even worse is that 8% of that age group thinks "Not Sure" from Idiocracy was an actual President.

[benjipwns]

So many people listing Trump as their pick is so infuriating for this reason. He's been in office for one year and done nothing but be a successful Republican president because we live in prosperous times.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

the funny part is the numbers who agreed that he's the worst ever are all greater than the number who said he's the worst of the last 40 years

he jumps from 24% of 18-29 saying he's the worst of last 40 years to 51% of 18-29 saying he's the worst. ever.

[close]

[Nola]

George W. Bush at 5% triggers me.

So many people listing Trump as their pick is so infuriating for this reason. He's been in office for one year and done nothing but be a successful Republican president because we live in prosperous times.

I mean Trump is gaining ground quickly in my mind with his healthcare fuckery, Paris Accords, regulatory capture, cronyism, the tax bill, and his general incompetence mixed with authoritarian derived stress tests on our institutions that could have some major long-term consequences, but, IMO, he'll have to really fuck some shit up outside our borders to catch up to Bush, and be much more influential to pass Reagan on my shit list.


...Though I'm curious the source Benji?

[benjipwns]

PPP Halloween poll, Trump also defeats Ghosts, Vampires, Mummies, Witches, Zombies and Werewolves but loses 51-36 to the Devil as scarier

[Mandark]

George W. Bush at 5% triggers me.

I'm probably never going to stop badmouthing that dude. I'm going to be the equivalent of the old guy in the barbershop stanning for Oscar Robertson as the greatest of all time cause that's who he grew up with.

[thehunter116]

https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/950897678640132096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FHoarseWisperer%2Fstatus%2F950897678640132096


This really is Stupid Watergate.

Also fuck the GOP for covering for this asshole.

[benjipwns]

i hope Robert Mueller is spending all his time making lists of people to indict for 50-part tweets

[thehunter116]

i hope Robert Mueller is spending all his time making lists of people to indict for 50-part tweets

Says the man-cat who writes 50 tweet replies on this board 

[Tasty]

Holy shit etoilet is fucking dumb.

[Nola]

https://twitter.com/HoarseWisperer/status/950897678640132096?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FHoarseWisperer%2Fstatus%2F950897678640132096


This really is Stupid Watergate.

Also fuck the GOP for covering for this asshole.

I'd say my biggest takeaways after trudging through that and sleeping on it is:

1.) Republicans are going to try and run with some of the Bill Browder stuff because while as a whole I think the testimony actually comes out better than I expected for Simpson, you can(and I guarantee the right wing will) take it out of context and use the public's rather tenuous understanding, like they did with Uranium One, to obfuscate and rile up the base.

2.) If you are a journalism major, make sure one of your stops is in the strategic research and intelligence field to pay back that student loan.

2.) While I wouldn't go so far as to call the Dossier now credible, getting a greater sense of GPS, Steele, the timeline of events, and the background to the Dossier's genesis and path to the FBI changes my calculus on the document a good bit. Steele basically was sub-contracted to broadly see what he can find about Trump within Russia after they hit a wall using publicly available information, primarily emphasized around business concerns. Steele goes in, starts putting his ear to the ground and starts hearing all this crazy shit from people inside the Kremlin that are still kind of treating Trump like this fringe piece of entertainment, so there is an openness to just divulging shit.

And my takeaway, whether you want to trust Steele's sources or not, Steele clearly did find them credible. If this was just a guy trying to make a quick buck by compiling gossip that as a former MI6 agent he doesn't believe in, then I ask myself why, unprovoked, does he end up on the phone with Simpson deeply concerned, feeling he needs to reach out to the FBI? When Simpson says I'm not sure, he comes back insistent and convinced its his duty to report it. That testimony explains why Republicans, who wanted to keep this testimony confidential, started the poisoning of the well with charges of Steele seeking that rich FBI money, but under even the basic application of reason and reading of this testimony that falls apart.

[benjipwns]

Former Maricopa County, Ariz. Sheriff Joe Arpaio resurfaced ... claims on Wednesday that former President Barack Obama's birth certificate is a "forgery" and said Congress should pass a law requiring such documents to be examined.

"I'm going to tell you again that that document is a forgery document," Arpaio told WABC's Rita Cosby."And nobody will touch it."

"I wanted to get it to Congress so they can pass some type of law – regulation – that when somebody runs for president you ought to check their background, so this won't happen again," he added. "But I can't get anybody – anybody – to even look at it."

Arpaio announced on Tuesday that he will seek the Republican nomination in Arizona's 2018 Senate race. He told Cosby on Wednesday that he would raise the issue of Obama's birth certificate in Congress.

[benjipwns]

Says the man-cat who writes 50 tweet replies on this board 

This entire scheme is so transparent it wouldn't even make a good spy movie - but an excellent trashy beach novel. Who is Steele? Why is he any more credible than the now discredited Peter Strzok? Why is he a "former" MI6 agent? Fusion is run by former WSJ dirt reporters who built an entire business around slinging fake dirt to create false political narrative (not a new thing - see "Yellow Journalism.") Hillary and the DNC have dead interns, indicted IT techs accused of espionage, lost and stolen emails, and they hire questionable groups like Fusion and Crowdstrike , but refuse to cooperate with FBI investigations into server hacks, while Fusion is hiring the wife of a senior DOJ official to write a fake dossier and give it to the FBI. everyone is Col. Klink or Sgt. Shultz, and Donna Brazil is afraid for her life. We have real adultery (Strzok's and Page), child predators named Weiner, fainting into black vans, smashed cell phones, bribes, fires, laptops left in phone booths (yes there are still phone booths somewhere). Dirty cops, unscrupulous lawyers, obtuse witnesses, and the American version of Bagdad Bob. Throw in a bald guy that's been caught perjuring himself and voila. In the middle of it all is Perkin Coie - a secretive law firm started by Bill Clinton's, Hillary's, and Obama's lawyers. All we need is a little dog. AND - none of the above points at P-Trump. C'mon Man.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

HistoryMatters • 15 hours ago

[close]

[Great Rumbler]

Former Maricopa County, Ariz. Sheriff Joe Arpaio resurfaced ... claims on Wednesday that former President Barack Obama's birth certificate is a "forgery" and said Congress should pass a law requiring such documents to be examined.

"I'm going to tell you again that that document is a forgery document," Arpaio told WABC's Rita Cosby."And nobody will touch it."

"I wanted to get it to Congress so they can pass some type of law – regulation – that when somebody runs for president you ought to check their background, so this won't happen again," he added. "But I can't get anybody – anybody – to even look at it."

Arpaio announced on Tuesday that he will seek the Republican nomination in Arizona's 2018 Senate race. He told Cosby on Wednesday that he would raise the issue of Obama's birth certificate in Congress.

We really are living in Idiocracy.

[shosta]

I mean Trump is gaining ground quickly in my mind with his healthcare fuckery, Paris Accords, regulatory capture, cronyism, the tax bill, and his general incompetence mixed with authoritarian derived stress tests on our institutions that could have some major long-term consequences, but, IMO, he'll have to really fuck some shit up outside our borders to catch up to Bush, and be much more influential to pass Reagan on my shit list.

One thing I'm worried about is the complete standstill of important government progress. Governance is deliberate, and takes planning and dilligence. I'm worried that when we come out of this, we'll be so behind in many measurable ways, like infrastructure debt, incarceration rates, public health, ecological collapse, etc.

[kingv]

Oh, no doubt it will take a few years before we understand how bad trump did or did not fuck us.

[thehunter116]

I mean Trump is gaining ground quickly in my mind with his healthcare fuckery, Paris Accords, regulatory capture, cronyism, the tax bill, and his general incompetence mixed with authoritarian derived stress tests on our institutions that could have some major long-term consequences, but, IMO, he'll have to really fuck some shit up outside our borders to catch up to Bush, and be much more influential to pass Reagan on my shit list.

One thing I'm worried about is the complete standstill of important government progress. Governance is deliberate, and takes planning and dilligence. I'm worried that when we come out of this, we'll be so behind in many measurable ways, like infrastructure debt, incarceration rates, public health, ecological collapse, etc.

We're behind on all of those things already.

[shosta]

yeah dawg that's the point. it's like quitting your job after losing your home