Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 6889661 times)

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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13320 on: January 27, 2018, 08:47:26 PM »
Quote
The Koch Brothers are launching a pilot program to help prisoners reintegrate back into society.

Alongside the Texas Public Policy Foundation, the Koch network is pouring $4 million into Safe Streets and Second Chances—an initiative that will study criminal rehabilitation programs in Texas, Louisiana, Florida and Pennsylvania. Each state will receive $1 million in funding for a trial experiment on 1,000 prisoners intended to prepare them for the workforce.

“Over 95 percent of people who are incarcerated will eventually be released, so it’s in everyone’s best interests to make sure that these individuals are better when they leave prison than before they went in,” Koch Industries executive Mark Holden said in a statement.

In addition to job training, prisoners will receive counseling and treatment for drug addiction.
holy shit, these bastards, does Jeff Sessions know about this?!?

This shouldn’t really be surprising to anybody... but Koch’s actually are pretty good on prisoner reform and felons rights issues. One of the few things I agree with them on.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13321 on: January 27, 2018, 08:48:46 PM »
Quote
The Koch Brothers are launching a pilot program to help prisoners reintegrate back into society.

Alongside the Texas Public Policy Foundation, the Koch network is pouring $4 million into Safe Streets and Second Chances—an initiative that will study criminal rehabilitation programs in Texas, Louisiana, Florida and Pennsylvania. Each state will receive $1 million in funding for a trial experiment on 1,000 prisoners intended to prepare them for the workforce.

“Over 95 percent of people who are incarcerated will eventually be released, so it’s in everyone’s best interests to make sure that these individuals are better when they leave prison than before they went in,” Koch Industries executive Mark Holden said in a statement.

In addition to job training, prisoners will receive counseling and treatment for drug addiction.
holy shit, these bastards, does Jeff Sessions know about this?!?

This shouldn’t really be surprising to anybody... but Koch’s actually are pretty good on prisoner reform and felons rights issues. One of the few things I agree with them on.

They're also surprisingly not that racist.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13322 on: January 27, 2018, 09:07:51 PM »
As for the Russian bots amplifying trump and amplifying Wikileaks, there are lots of things in this whole Russian interference that could be coincidence, taken individually, but I feel like you have to really stretch credibility to say it was coincidence when you see it all added up.

Like theoretically, I guess it’s possible that Trump hires a campaign manager who worked for free thst has ties to Putin, and that the Russian Government hacked the DNC and shortly after set up a meeting with Trump with the promise of sensitive government information to help with the election, then Instead of promising to share the hacked emails, instead shared a garbage dossier with no real information.

Similarly, it’s possible that Wikileaks actually got the DNC emails from somebody else other than russia, who was simultaneously hacking the DNC. It could also be coincidence that Russia is offering Trump assistance in the campaign, and then also retweeting Wikileaks while Wikileaks is also offering  trump campaign advice, and simultaneously Wikileaks is not talking to Russia at all.

It’s also theoretically possible that everybody associated with the Trump campaign chose to lie about meetings with Russia, even though they did nothing improper.

All of these things are possible, but it’s not the simplest explanation by a long shot.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13323 on: January 27, 2018, 09:17:52 PM »
no no no, when you talk about coincidences you're supposed to quote this as the final part


Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13324 on: January 28, 2018, 01:26:16 AM »
As for the Russian bots amplifying trump and amplifying Wikileaks, there are lots of things in this whole Russian interference that could be coincidence, taken individually, but I feel like you have to really stretch credibility to say it was coincidence when you see it all added up.

Like theoretically, I guess it’s possible that Trump hires a campaign manager who worked for free thst has ties to Putin, and that the Russian Government hacked the DNC and shortly after set up a meeting with Trump with the promise of sensitive government information to help with the election, then Instead of promising to share the hacked emails, instead shared a garbage dossier with no real information.

Similarly, it’s possible that Wikileaks actually got the DNC emails from somebody else other than russia, who was simultaneously hacking the DNC. It could also be coincidence that Russia is offering Trump assistance in the campaign, and then also retweeting Wikileaks while Wikileaks is also offering  trump campaign advice, and simultaneously Wikileaks is not talking to Russia at all.

It’s also theoretically possible that everybody associated with the Trump campaign chose to lie about meetings with Russia, even though they did nothing improper.

All of these things are possible, but it’s not the simplest explanation by a long shot.


There is an interesting phenomena that occurs with humans in how we can often find ourselves deriving strongly held opinions.

Cognitive scientists and behavioral economists have done a lot of studies that confirm basically this same underlying thing. For instance, to distill it down, if you take a person that either has a neutral position or an opposite position on a two-sided issue, and you ask that person to make an argument for one side(in the case of the neutral participant) or the opposite(in the case of the already biased person), the more they engage in arguing for that side, the more they will come to actually believe in it. What is even more crazy, if another person comes in and challenges that person on the argument they are defending, even with overwhelming empirical evidence, it basically calcifies the argued position into the arguer even more.

There are a lot of varying explanations about why this happens, but we know that it does. Overwhelmingly so in study after study. It basically exposes how the very act of arguing a position creates a long-term path dependency that biases and increasingly calcifies a person's favoritism toward that bias.  It's one explanation for why a society may have so many climate change denialists and creationists that are incapable of being persuaded no matter how convincing the persuader is. No matter how overwhelming the empirical facts become. Because they were pushed down a certain path at the beginning, or took on a certain position initially, and because of that initial indoctrination(self induced or influenced), it becomes almost impossible to change that without intense self skepticism. Which most people will not engage in.

That is basically etiolate. He jumped in on one side of the argument, and despite literally every single piece of evidence he previously cited going belly up, a narrative on ground as shaky as creationism, he still clings to that narrative.

Before he put me on ignore, he basically inadvertently admitted to this happening to him, when he inferred that he essentially is at the point where he takes it on faith that the Seth Rich thing will pan out for him. Despite the entire Fox News story, and the waves of evidence to the contrary, tearing that narrative apart in spectacular fashion.

My point is, I would just keep that in mind, because at least by doing so you can be entertained while he engages in an ever intensifying game of self-delusion as the evidence against him piles up. As he puts more and more people on ignore that trigger him. Under the illusion that is is them that are intellectually lacking.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 01:30:36 AM by Nola »

team filler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13325 on: January 28, 2018, 01:33:53 AM »
I was with you until you brought Godtiolate into this.
*****


team filler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13327 on: January 28, 2018, 01:58:05 AM »
 :lol
*****

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13328 on: January 28, 2018, 02:41:16 AM »
quite frankly, i don't believe slaves should be counted at all for apportionment purposes, no matter what CNN thinks

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13329 on: January 28, 2018, 02:43:43 AM »
quite frankly, i don't believe slaves should be counted at all for apportionment purposes, no matter what CNN thinks

How about a compromise?

3/5 sound good?  :doge

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13330 on: January 28, 2018, 03:04:42 AM »
ha! never!

this "union" is just a monarchical plot to create big government to transfer wealth to the upper class, give the south the power to enforce slavery on the rest of us and enthrone an unchecked executive to endlessly involve us in foreign wars!

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13331 on: January 28, 2018, 04:13:11 AM »
This hilarious game of intellectual sadism aside, I want to say that an important part of communicating with people is giving them the opportunity to save face instead of trying to own them into the dirt.

Counterpoint: Christopher Hitchens is bad and liking him makes you bad.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13332 on: January 28, 2018, 12:50:19 PM »
There is no truth to admit to. Talking about behavioral science while sitting in your confirmation bias. :lol fucking clowns

If you think Russia trying to mess with the USA during election time is new or remarkable? You're naive.
If you believe deep state claims without evidence? You're a schmuck.

Proof. Proof that the public can verify. Remember, you're trying to prove collusion that got Trump elected. You've probably lost track of that along the whole roller coaster ride.

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13333 on: January 28, 2018, 01:31:47 PM »
Remember, you're trying to prove collusion that got Trump elected.

False.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13334 on: January 28, 2018, 01:41:46 PM »
There is no truth to admit to. Talking about behavioral science while sitting in your confirmation bias. :lol fucking clowns

If you think Russia trying to mess with the USA during election time is new or remarkable? You're naive.
If you believe deep state claims without evidence? You're a schmuck.

Proof. Proof that the public can verify. Remember, you're trying to prove collusion that got Trump elected. You've probably lost track of that along the whole roller coaster ride.

Should’ve added  “wake up sheeple” to the end.

That said, I think that trying to talk about proving “collusion” is a dead end that gives away that the person saying it has set a standard so high it will probsbly never be met. I see it in Benji, Shosta, and Etiolate that their standard of “proof” is something akin to a recorded meeting where trump and Putin get together and say “I’ll help you win the election if you drop sanctions” or something like that.

With the possible exception of trump being a complete moron, I can almost guarantee that no conversation like this ever occurred. So if that is your standard,you are probably correct, but you should also state that so the rest of us can realize that you have set an almost impossibly high bar of proof.

That said, even if that didn’t occur, it doesn’t mean there wasn’t a crime committed. I think you could make a pretty damn good case that there were campaign finance violations, misprision of a felony, and a conspiracy to conceal both just from reading Donald Jrs. Emails and knowing that Russia hacked the DNC.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13335 on: January 28, 2018, 01:52:01 PM »
The press and you guys are the ones that set collusion as a standard. :lol


Remember that collusion was the word the media used. That was the scare word from the very start.

Tasty

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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13337 on: January 28, 2018, 03:25:56 PM »
The press and you guys are the ones that set collusion as a standard. :lol


Remember that collusion was the word the media used. That was the scare word from the very start.

This is a world where dumb trump motherfuckers say shit like “he didn’t obstruct justice because he never told Comey to lay off Flynn, he just asked him if he would”...

But I would argue that if the Russian government contacts the trump campaign, and then says “hey doodz we have Hillary dirt” and the trump campaign replies “cool beans! Love to see it later this summer, but don’t tell anyone”

That is collusion by the dictionary definition on its own:

Quote
col·lu·sion
kəˈlo͞oZHən/Submit
noun
secret or illegal cooperation or conspiracy, especially in order to cheat or deceive others.
"the armed forces were working in collusion with drug traffickers"

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13338 on: January 28, 2018, 03:57:04 PM »
You're lacking a grand conspiracy, and the intent to cheat or deceive others.

I will say this about "collusion", it was chosen for its malleability. As a word choice, it has the ability to wander from vague idea to legalese. Behind the word usage is the idea that the Americans were cheated by the Russians working with Trump to give him the election. That's the calming, "we didn't really elect Trump" mentality it appeals to people with. Around that idea, you can stir up a bunch of smoke and fear.

I advise you to set your standard for "proof" to be actual proof. Not the smoke, fear and shell game antics that have been going on for months. Considering how many people in government have gotten away with crimes and violating the constitution, violated the people and the world by starting wars for profit and gotten cleanly away with it? And this is with actual evidence of this wrongdoing? You should realize that to take out Trump that you need real proof and if you take him out without that, you will plant the seeds for civil war. (Which, if you understood the aim of divisive propaganda, would be the actual goal of foreign governments.)

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13339 on: January 28, 2018, 04:21:00 PM »
Dude, grand conspiracy has no meaning apart from regular conspiracy.

Using or soliciting DNC emails hacked illegally by another country is cheating in an election, yes or no?

If what you call our fevered dream of a story is true, Russia hacked the DNC then offered those emails to the Fonald Trump campaign, and the Donald trump campaign said “great thanks for the help, we love it!”do you think that is “cheating” in the election?

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13340 on: January 28, 2018, 04:22:41 PM »
As for Donald trump getting impeached, I don’t really care either way.

He’s an incredibly unpopular ineffective president, that will likely be dealing with a split congress in a year. If they impeach him great, if not he’ll lose in 2020.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13341 on: January 28, 2018, 04:36:58 PM »
et, you still banking on that Malia Zimmerman story panning out?

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13342 on: January 28, 2018, 04:37:43 PM »
Before he put me on ignore, he basically inadvertently admitted to this happening to him, when he inferred that he essentially is at the point where he takes it on faith that the Seth Rich thing will pan out for him. Despite the entire Fox News story, and the waves of evidence to the contrary, tearing that narrative apart in spectacular fashion.
This hilarious game of intellectual sadism aside, I want to say that an important part of communicating with people is giving them the opportunity to save face instead of trying to own them into the dirt. I think if people just got off etiolate's ass about it, he'll just come to accept the truth, even if he'll never admit it, and nobody has to win their internet points for the day, we can all just be nice to each other.

And for those of you who will say that he's hardly a nice person himself, I think he's a brawler type like Trump is. He digs in and punches back at anyone who throws one first, even if it's over something stupid. Just my thoughts for the day. Carepost?  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

To be fair, that olive branch has been offered up to etiolate on multiple occasions, for months. And every time he smacks it away, often with unprovoked and crass insults toward the person he is speaking with. Which is ironic given the situation he finds himself in defending conspiracies that fall apart on him time and again. People have actually made a number of good faith efforts(with pretty minimal snark, including right now) to lay out for him the weakness of his case and the ever strengthening evidence affirming the currently held consensus of Kremlin origin with regards to the 2016 hacks. However, as expected, he just digs in further, like is happening now. Getting increasingly hostile as any conversation goes on.

I've told him before, I don't hate him. The guy likes Boogie more than most actual Pelicans fans I know, that's decent people in my book. I think a lot of his opinions in the political realm are fucking moronic because whatever happened to him along his development path politically on certain issues, it has led him down a road of putting irrational faith into things like 4chan rumors, conveniently timed Fox News conspiracies, and conspiracy level simple narratives about complex topics, often to great comical effect.





Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13343 on: January 28, 2018, 05:42:52 PM »
The Atlantic wrote a substantial piece on Manafort that is... quite something.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2018/03/paul-manafort-american-hustler/550925/

In my view Trump's friends were in way over their heads, knew they were walking timebombs (Manafort/Flynn etc.) but figured that he couldn't win anyway so they might as well join along for the ride to get something out of it for themselves. Influence in the party, maybe sell a book or two. Note how a few of them like Rudy have dropped completely off the planet since he took office. This was never how they thought it would play out.

Neither did the people who ran against Trump. Team Clinton thought that the Access Hollywood tape would do him in, and honestly it did. In fact the Clinton people like Podesta were so confident that hey were already planning the new cabinet and trying to get the best positions. The somewhat sensible folks still with Trump ran for the hills at that point, while only the true believers and those in it for themselves were left behind. And honestly I think that the Russians never meant for Trump to be elected either. That they just wanted to weaken the Clinton presidency as they had weakened US intelligence operations through Wikileaks. I honestly think that the Russians were trying to figure out what's what with the Trump campaign people. Like would this guy really go to Iraq again and take the oil, or kill are the terrorists and their families (some of which living in Russia). Imagine if in Russia a retired circus clown ran for office telling people he'd build a wall along the Chinese border, finish the job in Georgia and nuke Ukraine. US intelligence would at least try to ascertain just what this clown is talking about.

The Democrats and news media are trying to make us believe that Vladimir Putin himself selected Trump to be the lynch pin of an elaborate scheme to elect a puppet leader in the US.
They want to make us believe that the Russians bet on Trump as early as 2015 (or perhaps even earlier) to take on Hillary Clinton in the general election.
Either Putin has build a time machine or they've lost their minds.
🤴

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13344 on: January 28, 2018, 05:55:04 PM »
et, you still banking on that Malia Zimmerman story panning out?

You mean the Sy Hersh and Assange story?

Hey, instead of being a coward, how about you make a claim or two? Do you think Wikileaks is a Russian lackey?

Nintex

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13345 on: January 28, 2018, 06:17:57 PM »
et, you still banking on that Malia Zimmerman story panning out?

You mean the Sy Hersh and Assange story?

Hey, instead of being a coward, how about you make a claim or two? Do you think Wikileaks is a Russian lackey?
At some point I had Wikileaks and Russia Today on Twitter and I couldn't distinguish between the two.

The fact that Assange had Russian security guarding him and arranged for Snowden to be picked up by the FSB in Moscow might've rang a few bells as well.
🤴

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13346 on: January 28, 2018, 06:33:14 PM »
et, you still banking on that Malia Zimmerman story panning out?

You mean the Sy Hersh and Assange story?

Hey, instead of being a coward, how about you make a claim or two? Do you think Wikileaks is a Russian lackey?

No, I specifically mean the story with Zimmerman's byline that was published on the Fox News website. Do you expect that story to be vindicated in the future?

If you'd like to refresh your memory, it's here.
« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 06:40:04 PM by Mandark »

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13347 on: January 28, 2018, 06:57:05 PM »
You're reframing it via the spin job on the story and ignoring that Iv'e stated many times that my suspicions and all original suspicions emerge from Assange, and that the story you call the Zimmerman story is all birthed from Sy Hersh.


Now stop being a bitch and answer my question.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13348 on: January 28, 2018, 07:16:59 PM »
et, you still banking on that Malia Zimmerman story panning out?

You mean the Sy Hersh and Assange story?

Hey, instead of being a coward, how about you make a claim or two? Do you think Wikileaks is a Russian lackey?

FYI, this has been explained multiple times:
http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=44608.msg2362570#msg2362570
http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=44608.msg2279272#msg2279272

Hersh has called the info Butowski took from him as reckless hearsay and gossip that he puts no stock in. Made it clear the audio that you once posted here was selectively edited to take out the points in the conversation where he made it clear that the source was not verified and he himself has seen no evidence to suggest conspiracy(shocking, I know, that a Trump shill and Fox News surrogate would do such a thing in an "investigation" that was purposefully designed to find evidence toward a conclusion he wanted). Which is why Hersh was never going to report on this and said as much to Butowski.

Sy Hersh does not and did not find this single gossip source credible, so why do you continue to cite him in defense of your conspiracy?


« Last Edit: January 28, 2018, 07:26:33 PM by Nola »

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13349 on: January 28, 2018, 07:26:09 PM »
This is a good insight.

Quote
At a certain point in “God and Donald Trump,” the recent theological gymnastics on display from Tony Perkins and Jerry Falwell, Jr., among others, to explain ongoing conservative Christian support for a president who (allegedly) paid off a porn star weeks before Election Day so she would keep quiet about their (alleged) affair become clear. There will be no point at which Trump’s most loyal evangelical and charismatic supporters declare they have had enough. Because to do so would be to admit that they were wrong, that God wasn’t behind Trump’s election, and that their Holy Spirit radar might be on the fritz. That it was, after all, about something as temporal and banal as hating his Democratic rival.

https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/01/27/millions-of-americans-believe-god-made-trump-president-216537?lo=ap_c1

Actually it probably comes from a similar cognitive failure as etiolate still banging on about Seth Rich, or Himu pretending the Comey Letter didn’t happen.

They'll continue to back him because it's not a religious issue, it's a cultural issue. And Trump will back whatever cultural issues that religious conservatives want him to back.
dog

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13350 on: January 28, 2018, 07:32:00 PM »
You're reframing it via the spin job on the story and ignoring that Iv'e stated many times that my suspicions and all original suspicions emerge from Assange, and that the story you call the Zimmerman story is all birthed from Sy Hersh.

No, I am asking because the Zimmerman story has some claims that go further and are more detailed than the more general case (ie Seth Rich was the source and Russia was not involved in leaking/hacking). I'm curious whether you believe those specific claims are going to be borne out in future reporting.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13351 on: January 28, 2018, 07:38:54 PM »
The more you dodge the question, the more my coward accusation lingers over your head.

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13352 on: January 28, 2018, 08:31:50 PM »
but the one dodging the question...is you? :confused

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13353 on: January 28, 2018, 08:44:08 PM »
There have been various stories over the last year that basically said Putin didn't expect Trump to win, and that's my view. I think the tampering/collusion was largely an attempt to attack US democracy in general, and of course also cripple the incoming US president (Clinton), who Putin was reportedly upset with due to accusations from the State Department that his previous election was fraudulent. Russian bots were gearing up to question the results, assuming that Clinton would win. We've already seen Don Jr's correspondence with Wikileaks, who were asking Trump to question the results as well. It's pretty obvious what the plan was.

I'm not even sure Putin would consider the results a win for him, long term. Trump hasn't been able to remove the sanctions, and now the CIA/FBI/NSA/etc are investigating 2016 in a way they (presumably) wouldn't be if Clinton had won. Furthermore I'd argue that if Trump goes down and Pence becomes president, we'll see a return of typical GOP cold war fuckery towards Russia. Pence will have to prove to the American people that he had nothing to do with the collusion, meaning more sanctions and antagonism.

010

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13354 on: January 28, 2018, 08:49:24 PM »
but the one dodging the question...is you? :confused

hey instead of being a coward, how about you make a claim or two?

I'm a Puppy!

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13355 on: January 28, 2018, 10:56:11 PM »
So, I can't be the only one who upon hearing that trump wants to nationalize the 5g network thought, "oh. He's really done now. You don't take those people on and survive politically"
que

El Babua

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13356 on: January 28, 2018, 11:10:25 PM »
^That would make Trump the most socialist president in ages just based on that

But for now I'll chalk it up to something he decided to say and will change his tune on relatively quick

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13357 on: January 28, 2018, 11:46:45 PM »
^That would make Trump the most socialist president in ages just based on that

But for now I'll chalk it up to something he decided to say and will change his tune on relatively quick

Something tells me if this doesn't end up just like Trump's pledge to negotiate drug prices with pharm companies(meaning it goes nowhere once the industry cronies in his administration push back and Trump gets distracted by some other shiny object), it will end up being socialism of the lemon variety. I.E. The American taxpayer will be on the hook for the risk and costs, and they will find some convoluted way to give the operating profits to the oligopoly industries they will attempt to put in charge.


team filler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13358 on: January 29, 2018, 05:17:59 AM »
you're all cowards, make some claims or stfu
*****

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13359 on: January 29, 2018, 06:13:08 AM »
Christopher Hitchens was pretty bad, but at least he waterboarded Christopher Hitchens.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13360 on: January 29, 2018, 08:58:41 AM »
I think the worst thing about Hitchens is that he was still defending the Iraq war in like 2007, well after everybody else realized it was a terrible mistake.

He took the view that nobody realized that it was based on faulty intelligence beforehand, when lots of people were questioning it. Those people were widely derided as kooks and pansies, but they ended up being correct.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13361 on: January 29, 2018, 10:10:32 AM »
Here’s the thing about intelligent people, they can spend a lot of time making their dumbest opinions appear credible, including to themselves.

Christopher Hitchens is a smart person that found his way into some really dumb opinions along his life’s journey.


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I’ll try and respond more formally this evening when I get a moment.
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Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13362 on: January 29, 2018, 10:17:39 AM »
Dare I point out that Hitchens was another pro Iraq War imperialist that America First bros have no problem embracing  :doge

I like some of Hitchens' stuff of course, he was an entertaining troll. But overall I can't bang with anyone who not only got Iraq wrong but doubled down on it.

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Hitchens was right about female comedians
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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13363 on: January 29, 2018, 12:17:37 PM »
Quick article about a lawyer interested in adoptions:

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LONDON—The Moscow operation behind the now-infamous Russian-Trump Tower meeting in June 2016 included a direct attempt to enlist a foreign country’s law-enforcement official as a virtual double-agent, according to a court case in Switzerland.

FYI, they are talking about Veselnitskaya.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-tower-russian-lawyer-natalia-veselnitskaya-exposed-in-swiss-corruption-case

So she’s trying to recruit double agents to undermine The Magnitsky Act, but in trump tower, that is not what she was doing, just talking a bit about adoptions.

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13364 on: January 29, 2018, 01:40:25 PM »
It's plain as day what the republicans are trying to do with the memo shennanigans. Get Rosenstein fired or force him to resign to set the path for firing Mueller. Rosenstein is the only piece of the puzzle that stands in their way (I know, that was a very labored metaphor).  :doge

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13365 on: January 29, 2018, 02:09:32 PM »
Hitchens was wrong on the war, but right on many other things. I wouldn't bury him just over the war.

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13366 on: January 29, 2018, 02:17:05 PM »
Andrew McCabe is out at the FBI effective today.
dog

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13367 on: January 29, 2018, 02:20:19 PM »
Andrew McCabe is out at the FBI effective today.

I think he is still at the FBI until his retirement date. It's just official that he won't be staying on, as I understand it.

They basically bullied him into early retirement.

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13368 on: January 29, 2018, 02:25:56 PM »
Originally, he was going to stay as the number 2 at the FBI until March, when he was eligible for a full retirement. What's changed is that he's now officially gone from the number 2 spot, but will stay on the FBI payroll until March when he gets his retirement.
dog

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13369 on: January 29, 2018, 02:27:57 PM »
Oh, ok got it. Well, at least he still gets his retirement benefits. Would have sucked to lose those too  :doge

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13370 on: January 29, 2018, 02:34:47 PM »
Well, at least he still gets his retirement benefits. Would have sucked to lose those too  :doge

:trumps
dog

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13371 on: January 29, 2018, 02:37:04 PM »
It's plain as day what the republicans are trying to do with the memo shennanigans. Get Rosenstein fired or force him to resign to set the path for firing Mueller. Rosenstein is the only piece of the puzzle that stands in their way (I know, that was a very labored metaphor).  :doge

The only comfort I have is that so far, most of Trump’s most egregious nonsense has been checked by his own incompetence.

If this was Dick Cheney and Bush, I would fully expect them to have a list of pre-vetted nominees and current members of the Justice department they could nominate/temporarily appoint to achieve their bidding very quickly. Not that the Bush administration wasn’t incompetent, but they were at least good at getting the institutional gears moving in the direction they wanted.

kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13372 on: January 29, 2018, 02:57:14 PM »
Apparently he was told to step down effective immediately and did not decide on his own to step down early.

Nothing stops this obstruction train!

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13373 on: January 29, 2018, 02:58:23 PM »
Apparently he was told to step down effective immediately and did not decide on his own to step down early.

This should be a surprise to no one.
dog

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13374 on: January 29, 2018, 03:03:29 PM »
Lol how dumb can they be, voluntarily strengthening the obstruction case out of spite. I mean McCabe isn't even the linchpin of this investigation. Removing him accomplishes nothing, what practical purpose is there for firing McCabe?

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13375 on: January 29, 2018, 03:05:26 PM »
Apparently he was told to step down effective immediately and did not decide on his own to step down early.

Nothing stops this obstruction train!

But muh deep state!

nudemacusers

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13376 on: January 29, 2018, 03:54:40 PM »
It’s not clear to me, maybe I’m behind the curve, that he was forced to vacate vs just running the numbers and realizing he could gtfo and still chill on terminal leave.

Also Cheeto complaining about terminal leave is hilarious, dude is shitting on basically everyone who retired from the military... I don’t know anyone who didn’t cut early and retire on terminal leave, in fact an O-8 I know is doing that shortly.
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kingv

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13377 on: January 29, 2018, 03:56:45 PM »
Did 10 years in the service and you are right. It’s an earned benefit that many many servicemen don’t get to use completely during their time in.

It’s like getting mad st someone for cashing int their PTO at a company... something people also do all the time.

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13378 on: January 29, 2018, 04:01:39 PM »
What did trump say about terminal leave?

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The #benjishutdown is over!
« Reply #13379 on: January 29, 2018, 04:09:16 PM »
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