Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5389867 times)

0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14280 on: February 14, 2018, 10:18:19 PM »
OK let's hear from the Sunnis and Shiites now

Or the hundreds of thousands dead Iraqis
I've got the UN polls right here and by 2007 most Iraqis hated American troops. But of course by 2014 the public was split about whether the US should have withdrawn at all! My position is that I think there was serious mishandling of the reconstruction of Iraq, Paul Bremer should be in jail, etc. But I hold out hope that there was a right way to do it.
每天生气

curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14281 on: February 14, 2018, 10:20:33 PM »
The whole idea is so stupid. Syria was a civil war, in Iraq we were the ones that started the fucking catastrophe. You can't compare them like for like. There wouldn't even be an ISIS without Iraq. You could argue plausibly that there wouldn't have been a Syrian civil war without Iraq.
So much of this is wrong. Iraq and Syria were both dictatorships and both of them became embroiled in sectarian civil war. They are absolutely comparable. There wouldn't have been an ISIS without Syria, not Iraq (did you forget where it reached critical mass?). And I shudder to think what Saddam Hussein would have done if Assad's country was falling apart next door.

We INVADED one and not the other. We were the instigating actor in one and not the other. We started that sectarian civil war. The organization ISIL was born in the Iraqi insurgency. It's capital was in Mosul. It allied itself with Iraqi Sunni tribesmen who felt it was the better alternative to the Shiite-dominated government in Baghdad that we made possible. It armed itself with weapons supplied to Iraqi troops by the US, weapons the Iraqis abandoned because the Iraqi army and all institutions of the Iraqi state were a joke, also because we invaded and overthrew the government. That sectarian civil war which we made possible inflamed sectarian tensions across the Middle East, with the help of our allies in the region.

Also how is a poll from 2014 about when the US troops should have withdrawn post-invasion evidence for Iraqi support for the invasion itself.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 10:31:32 PM by curly »

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14282 on: February 14, 2018, 10:41:48 PM »
OK let's hear from the Sunnis and Shiites now

Or the hundreds of thousands dead Iraqis
I've got the UN polls right here and by 2007 most Iraqis hated American troops. But of course by 2014 the public was split about whether the US should have withdrawn at all! My position is that I think there was serious mishandling of the reconstruction of Iraq, Paul Bremer should be in jail, etc. But I hold out hope that there was a right way to do it.

There obviously was a better way to do it. Or at least avoid taking certain actions that were undeniably destructive. But IMO that gets to part of the heart of the problem with the situation altogether. These were people with surprisingly shallow(with a mix of corrupt) ideas on what needs to happen after you have created the philosophical rationalization to justify preventive war and wholesale regime change. And the State Department and the intelligence agencies tried to warn them of their own ignorance, but there was no avoiding their arrogance in it.

And it was already a long response for a place like this, but Syria and Iraq are materially different. Syria, by every metric we have, would be a much more difficult task if you subscribe to all-in commitment to oust Assad, secure the country, and install a democratic system of government.

One of the arguments for why things could of gone better in Iraq under different leadership was because of the unified and initially cooperative military force outside of the loyalist Republican Guard and the largely cooperative Ba'athist bureaucracy. That had you been more sensitive, aware and proactive in the dynamics of those relationships, you could of fostered a much smoother transition and had a lot more resources and trained security forces to deal with a much smaller insurgency of Al Qaeda fighters/Saddam loyalists that would likely not be able to recruit much, if any, Ba'ahists or military forces.  Though to argue myself, the sectarian divisions were always there(which is part of why strongmen were supported to secure often at-odds factions within borders, because they kinda work in that regard, at least temporarily), so there still is a fairly decent probability that those tensions were bound to bloom regardless, and that civil war would still be hard to avoid.

That is really not the case in Syria from everything we have seen. The country is embroiled in a civil war already, tensions that have continued to grow since the Arab Spring, and the divisions run deep, and there is anything but a unifying social and structural fabric to lean on that would make the potential transition a smooth one. So aside from the points others have made about the obvious differences, I think tactically there is a lot more uncertainly and risk in Syria, and likely that is also why(along with geopolitical issues) two administrations, and the military, have now been hesitant to escalate to that sort of strategy.



shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14283 on: February 14, 2018, 10:48:32 PM »
We INVADED one and not the other. We were the instigating actor in one and not the other. We started that sectarian civil war. The organization ISIL was born in the Iraqi insurgency. It's capital was in Mosul. It allied itself with Iraqi Sunni tribesmen who felt it was the better alternative to the Shiite-dominated government in Baghdad that we made possible. It armed itself with weapons supplied to Iraqi troops by the US, weapons the Iraqis abandoned because the Iraqi army and all institutions of the Iraqi state were a joke, also because we invaded and overthrew the government. That sectarian civil war which we made possible inflamed sectarian tensions across the Middle East, with the help of our allies in the region.
Its birth is irrelevant if it's just another homegrown terrorist organization. The conditions for it to grow into a real threat to regional security were in the chaos of Syria, not Iraq. I think Obama should have secured a Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq. I think Obama should have done more to make Iraq respect its Sunni population. I think Biden was probably right that the Sunnis should have been given their own autonomous region with guaranteed 20% profits from oil. I also think there was a critical period right after the invasion that could have prevented an insurgency but was missed because of the failures of the Bush administration.

You want to talk about Mosul? First Maliki refused security assistance from Kurdish forces because he didn't want them to gain more influence (just like how Iraq is currently rerouting its oil shipments to be inefficiently trucked to Iran instead of through Kurdistan, the sectarian politics going on right now are insane). Then, someone in the administration ordered the senior commanders there to desert Mosul. It wasn't that the Iraqi forces were incapable of fighting, or just fell apart on their own, the defensive line there was deliberately sabotaged by Shiite politicians because they didn't care about defending a Sunni city.

I don't personally care about ISIS. They are just another terrorist organization to me and have largely become irrelevant in the news. But if you're going to point at them and say "look what you did in Iraq", well, I blame the sectarian civil war on Bush, and ISIS assaults in Iraq on Obama.
每天生气

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14284 on: February 14, 2018, 10:55:16 PM »
We've been eyeing regime change in Syria for awhile. I doubt the civil war didn't have some US fingers in it.

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14285 on: February 14, 2018, 11:06:01 PM »
Something that needs to be keept in mind

 Iraq voted us out of the country, for some reason a sect of Americans tend to forget that it was the Iraqi's that voted for American forces to largely withdraw from the country. The arguments that don't try to gloss over that largely seem to involve disregarding the will of the democracy we invaded the country to install. Or in Panetta's book, claiming that had Obama just asserted more pressure than had been applied, the Iranian aligned Maliki government would of caved to the will of our self-interest above his own self-interest at the time. Which on the first point, seems slightly hypocritical and damaging in its own right for a government that was already having charges of puppet masters - be it America or Iran - blanketing the ruling members of the government. On the second point, it seems to be a sort of counter-factual that is unknowable, but its hard to imagine short of coercion why that should be assumed to be easily possible? Or even possible at all?

Furthermore, as former intelligence members have pointed out, there is no guarantee that a 6 month, 1 year, or whatever delay was going to remove the rise of ISIS in some other capacity. Just on a different time scale or geographical dispersion.


curly

  • cultural maoist
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14286 on: February 14, 2018, 11:06:55 PM »
This argument is a dead end but "Obama should have made Iraq respect it's Sunni population more" is a hilarious line

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14287 on: February 14, 2018, 11:07:03 PM »
I think Obama should have secured a Status of Forces Agreement with Iraq. I think Obama should have done more to make Iraq respect its Sunni population.

This is magical thinking.

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14288 on: February 14, 2018, 11:09:17 PM »
If you assume that Iraqis would acquiesce to the US setting internal Iraqi policy and that US officials should have been able to figure out what the proper policies were than yeah, we're just a couple inflection points away from everything being peachy.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14289 on: February 14, 2018, 11:14:36 PM »
We've been eyeing regime change in Syria for awhile. I doubt the civil war didn't have some US fingers in it.

https://wikileaks.org/plusd/cables/06DAMASCUS5399_a.html

Just like you doubt the debunking of the Seth Rich story will hold.

In both instances, you are substituting faith in conspiracies for evidence, and in both instances, you are still a moron.


shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14290 on: February 14, 2018, 11:21:58 PM »
OK let's hear from the Sunnis and Shiites now

Or the hundreds of thousands dead Iraqis
I've got the UN polls right here and by 2007 most Iraqis hated American troops. But of course by 2014 the public was split about whether the US should have withdrawn at all! My position is that I think there was serious mishandling of the reconstruction of Iraq, Paul Bremer should be in jail, etc. But I hold out hope that there was a right way to do it.

There obviously was a better way to do it. Or at least avoid taking certain actions that were undeniably destructive. But IMO that gets to part of the heart of the problem with the situation altogether. These were people with surprisingly shallow(with a mix of corrupt) ideas on what needs to happen after you have created the philosophical rationalization to justify preventive war and wholesale regime change. And the State Department and the intelligence agencies tried to warn them of their own ignorance, but there was no avoiding their arrogance in it.

And it was already a long response for a place like this, but Syria and Iraq are materially different. Syria, by every metric we have, would be a much more difficult task if you subscribe to all-in commitment to oust Assad, secure the country, and install a democratic system of government.

One of the arguments for why things could of gone better in Iraq under different leadership was because of the unified and initially cooperative military force outside of the loyalist Republican Guard and the largely cooperative Ba'athist bureaucracy. That had you been more sensitive, aware and proactive in the dynamics of those relationships, you could of fostered a much smoother transition and had a lot more resources and trained security forces to deal with a much smaller insurgency of Al Qaeda fighters/Saddam loyalists that would likely not be able to recruit much, if any, Ba'ahists or military forces.  Though to argue myself, the sectarian divisions were always there(which is part of why strongmen were supported to secure often at-odds factions within borders, because they kinda work in that regard, at least temporarily), so there still is a fairly decent probability that those tensions were bound to bloom regardless, and that civil war would still be hard to avoid.

That is really not the case in Syria from everything we have seen. The country is embroiled in a civil war already, tensions that have continued to grow since the Arab Spring, and the divisions run deep, and there is anything but a unifying social and structural fabric to lean on that would make the potential transition a smooth one. So aside from the points others have made about the obvious differences, I think tactically there is a lot more uncertainly and risk in Syria, and likely that is also why(along with geopolitical issues) two administrations, and the military, have now been hesitant to escalate to that sort of strategy.
I think if there was an Arab Spring in the alternate timeline without the Iraq War, Iraq would have been much more susceptible to it than Syria was, primarily because it was surrounded on all borders by countries hungry for the pieces. I think you're wrong vis-a-vis divisions in Syria, by the way. During the start of the civil war and for a long time before that I think Syrian politics has been unified Sunni, Christian, and Kurdish resentment against a ruling Alawite elite. There is no doubt in my mind that, before a third of the population fled or died, an overthrow of Assad by the Free Syrian Army would have resulted in a democratic government.

But in any case I don't necessarily subscribe to ousting Assad. What I want is for there to have been no arms going into Syria at all (from Russia or the US or Turkey), I would have wanted there to have been a no-fly zone (and I still haven't responded to your Susan Rice quote yet).

And I'm not advocating for anything in Syria. It's too late to do anything. The country is gone. The debate over it now is like how to stop the house from burning down even though the kids and the dog are dead. Best you can do is give Iraq some bits in the East, let Kurdistan take the parts in the North, hope Saudi Arabia stops sending radical jihadists there, etc.
每天生气

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14291 on: February 14, 2018, 11:24:06 PM »
There is no doubt in my mind that, before a third of the population fled or died, an overthrow of Assad by the Free Syrian Army would have resulted in a democratic government.

Lordy.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14292 on: February 14, 2018, 11:26:40 PM »
One thing worth mentioning is that the idea that the American people would have supported putting a substantial number of  boots on the ground in Syria in 2011 or 2012 is batshit insane.

Obama would have been crucified as the Muslim traitor he was if he came out in full throated support of starting a third open-ended, long-term military commitment and subsequent rebuilding in 2011, when like 70% of Americans, and everyone that had voted for him hated the Iraq War with the fury of a thousand suns.

Right thing, wrong thing, whatever, he never really had too much choice in the matter. It was very clear at the time that the country had no real desire to drop $1 trillion, again, on rescuing some third world shithole from itself by bombing it into the Stone Age, when the track record for such things was not so hot.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14293 on: February 14, 2018, 11:29:16 PM »
how many have flipped the other way since trump?

Not many.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1C2MVeM2K7WgqmJw5RCQbWyTo2u73CX1pI8zw_G-7BJo/edit#gid=2144047916

In party contested races

- 38 seats have flipped from R to D.

- 5 seats have flipped from D to R.


EDIT: Fixed because I can't write.

So far we're looking at a blue Tsunami so I'd like to see what you think alot is.

Every last seat in dem hands?  :doge

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14294 on: February 14, 2018, 11:52:50 PM »
I think if there was an Arab Spring in the alternate timeline without the Iraq War, Iraq would have been much more susceptible to it than Syria was, primarily because it was surrounded on all borders by countries hungry for the pieces. I think you're wrong vis-a-vis divisions in Syria, by the way. During the start of the civil war and for a long time before that I think Syrian politics has been unified Sunni, Christian, and Kurdish resentment against a ruling Alawite elite. There is no doubt in my mind that, before a third of the population fled or died, an overthrow of Assad by the Free Syrian Army would have resulted in a democratic government.

But in any case I don't necessarily subscribe to ousting Assad. What I want is for there to have been no arms going into Syria at all (from Russia or the US or Turkey), I would have wanted there to have been a no-fly zone (and I still haven't responded to your Susan Rice quote yet).

And I'm not advocating for anything in Syria. It's too late to do anything. The country is gone. The debate over it now is like how to stop the house from burning down even though the kids and the dog are dead. Best you can do is give Iraq some bits in the East, let Kurdistan take the parts in the North, hope Saudi Arabia stops sending radical jihadists there, etc.

I'd keep in mind the Arab Spring was not at its core really about a hunger for democracy, so much as a rebellion against food prices, largely coming from commodity speculation that drove up the cost of grains and essential food 2. Though certainly that is merely the spark and agendas got placed on top of that. In that context though, its hard to say. Iraq was already under heavy pressure due to sanctions, would the run on commodities been a tipping point for an already beaten down populace or a drop in the bucket? In the known timeline, Iraq certainly succumbed to pressures of the Arab Spring. But that is the problem with these sort of speculative things. It doesn't end, and its pretty much impossible to find agreement when you start engaging in alternative future discussions.

On Syria, I just think the solutions you are talking about(no arms into Syria) is/was incredibly escalatory. How do you respond if Russia breaks that embargo? Which they almost certainly would, and I am not an international law expert, but I am not sure America would have the standing to deny those sales? In terms of now, the thing is Turkey isn't going to let the Kurds take Turkish land. Assad and Russia aren't going to allow a loss of their borders to Iraq, and without consent, that certainly wouldn't be legal under international law anyways. Not trying to be argumentative, but just pointing out why I think this, like before, is really a problem with only a bunch of high risk, problematic solutions.
« Last Edit: February 14, 2018, 11:58:27 PM by Nola »

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14295 on: February 14, 2018, 11:59:47 PM »
One thing worth mentioning is that the idea that the American people would have supported putting a substantial number of  boots on the ground in Syria in 2011 or 2012 is batshit insane.

Obama would have been crucified as the Muslim traitor he was if he came out in full throated support of starting a third open-ended, long-term military commitment and subsequent rebuilding in 2011, when like 70% of Americans, and everyone that had voted for him hated the Iraq War with the fury of a thousand suns.

Right thing, wrong thing, whatever, he never really had too much choice in the matter. It was very clear at the time that the country had no real desire to drop $1 trillion, again, on rescuing some third world shithole from itself by bombing it into the Stone Age, when the track record for such things was not so hot.

Not only that, but we(at least I find myself forgetting this often) are compartmentalizing Syria into this isolated box and discussing it, forgetting the larger geopolitical context in 2011.

There was no less than a dozen middle eastern countries facing unrest from the Arab Spring. Many of which still had unresolved conflicts along with Syria going into 2012. Including Iraq.

No one really knew for certain what was going to go on. We pretty much took a unified approach of supporting the movements, but for obvious reasons, not committing to strongly intervening in every single case.


TakingBackSunday

  • Banana Grabber
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14297 on: February 15, 2018, 11:35:10 AM »
yo, WHAT?
püp

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14298 on: February 15, 2018, 01:16:51 PM »
In practice republicans had already ended it.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14299 on: February 15, 2018, 01:20:31 PM »
https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/14/joe-manchin-trump-immigration-plan-408981

Quit it with the purity tests, Bernie Bros. All that matters is electing somebody who has a D next to their name.


kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14300 on: February 15, 2018, 01:40:30 PM »
I’m not gonna knock Joe Manchin for being Luke warmly  pro-life in West Virginia.

He’s still a relatively reliable Democratic vote on many things. Definitely some people need to realize that in some red states, finding someone who is technically pro-life but doesn’t really care much about it, and doesn’t have any specific restrictions he wants to try to pile onto women is as good as you are going to get.

I’d say maybe we don’t want to throw pro-lifers and 20 week abortion restrictionists (like Hillary) to the top of the ticket, but if your choices are “pro lifer” that spends very little time talking about it, and somebody who stands in front of the senate screeching about Jesus and dead babies with slides of aborted fetuses, then that first one is way preferable.

kingv

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14301 on: February 15, 2018, 01:50:37 PM »
So apparently Nikolas Cruz from South Florida is a white supremacist.

Did they forget to check his drivers license or something? Did he try to tell them he was Portuguese?

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14302 on: February 15, 2018, 02:12:57 PM »
So apparently Nikolas Cruz from South Florida is a white supremacist.

Did they forget to check his drivers license or something? Did he try to tell them he was Portuguese?

According to the right-wing, he was supposed to be a Dreamer and the nail in the coffin for the libtards.

....I have no real problem with Joe Manchin, just found that humorous, I do think the left is a bit misguided in how much their particular brand of right-wing pandering in red states actually benefits them, but thats another issue.

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14303 on: February 15, 2018, 02:33:35 PM »
So apparently Nikolas Cruz from South Florida is a white supremacist.

Did they forget to check his drivers license or something? Did he try to tell them he was Portuguese?

If white supremacy had a draft and white people were the San Antonio Spurs, 2nd/3rd gen Hispanics would be that intriguing foreign big man that gets drafted in the second round, stays overseas, then joins the team and dominates when the time is right.

the future
:rejoice
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 04:38:50 PM by Phoenix Dark »
010

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14304 on: February 15, 2018, 02:54:10 PM »
Yeah, "white people becoming a minority will end racism" sounds good until you remember how white people were going to become a minority thanks to the influx of Italians and slavs.


edit: also, there's whatever is going on here

https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/962134513341157384
« Last Edit: February 15, 2018, 02:59:12 PM by Mandark »

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14305 on: February 15, 2018, 03:15:15 PM »
Woke up to see a bunch of posts in here of me defending the Iraq War

What is wrong with me  :beli
每天生气

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14306 on: February 15, 2018, 03:18:58 PM »
Btw, nobody here hates you. Just wanted to throw that out there.

Great Rumbler

  • Dab on the sinners
  • Global Moderator
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14307 on: February 15, 2018, 03:43:28 PM »
Woke up to see a bunch of posts in here of me defending the Iraq War

What is wrong with me  :beli

You need a hug, breh?
dog

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14308 on: February 15, 2018, 03:44:51 PM »
Woke up to see a bunch of posts in here of me defending the Iraq War

What is wrong with me  :beli
how about we invade some Iraq


sounds good to me


Remember, I don't drink, I told everybody I don't drink. Just ask Bill, I mean, HIll, I mean...


JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE
🤴

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14309 on: February 15, 2018, 03:53:52 PM »
Yeah, "white people becoming a minority will end racism" sounds good until you remember how white people were going to become a minority thanks to the influx of Italians and slavs.


edit: also, there's whatever is going on here

https://twitter.com/KrangTNelson/status/962134513341157384

:six:
serge

team filler

  • filler
  • filler
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14310 on: February 15, 2018, 04:16:28 PM »
Btw, nobody here hates you. Just wanted to throw that out there.
:hitler
*****

sphagnum

  • Junior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14311 on: February 15, 2018, 04:19:23 PM »
DYING FOR BUSH'S OIL PROFITS

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14312 on: February 15, 2018, 06:55:51 PM »

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14313 on: February 15, 2018, 07:55:36 PM »
Woke up to see a bunch of posts in here of me defending the Iraq War

What is wrong with me  :beli

If thou gaze long enough into the Toilet, the Toilet will also gaze into thee

shosta

  • Y = λ𝑓. (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥)) (λ𝑥. 𝑓 (𝑥 𝑥))
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14314 on: February 15, 2018, 11:08:01 PM »
I used to live like ten minutes from the guy, I should really go meet him sometime and talk about Jordan Peterson or something.
每天生气

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14315 on: February 16, 2018, 12:19:21 AM »
Rick Gates flipped.

 :doge It's just a democrat scheme doe.  :doge

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14316 on: February 16, 2018, 12:22:37 AM »
Rick Gates flipped.

 :doge It's just a democrat scheme doe.  :doge

I didn't see that, though I know it had been speculated for a while now. And the lawfare guys and girls had been speculating it since the indictments due to Gates age and family...  I did see where Bannon has apparently been meeting with Muller for an extensive amount of time.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14317 on: February 16, 2018, 12:26:01 AM »
Rick Gates flipped.

 :doge It's just a democrat scheme doe.  :doge

I didn't see that, though I know it had been speculated for a while now. And the lawfare guys and girls had been speculating it since the indictments due to Gates age and family...  I did see where Bannon has apparently been meeting with Muller for an extensive amount of time.

https://twitter.com/CNNPolitics/status/964277713740750854?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Ftwitter.com%2FCNNPolitics%2Fstatus%2F964277713740750854

It's nothing and Trump is innocent.

 :mueller

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14318 on: February 16, 2018, 12:31:26 AM »
Gates is an interesting one because his flipping technically may not indicate anything with Trump, but more solidifying the case against Manafort.

Rats and a sinking ship and all that.

Or, you know, the right-hand man to Manafort may have quite the story to tell that very potentially overlaps into things that incriminate people in the Trump campaign given he was Manafort's deputy and theoretically was intimately knowledgable of all of Manafort's business.

Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14319 on: February 16, 2018, 12:36:05 AM »
Gates is an interesting one because his flipping technically may not indicate anything with Trump, but more solidifying the case against Manafort.

Rats and a sinking ship and all that.

Or, you know, the right-hand man to Manafort may have quite the story to tell that very potentially overlaps into things that incriminate people in the Trump campaign given he was Manafort's deputy and theoretically was intimately knowledgable of all of Manafort's business.

Rick Wilson said the white house should be worried. They're going after bigger fish than just Manafort.

Nola

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14320 on: February 16, 2018, 12:48:54 AM »
Gates is an interesting one because his flipping technically may not indicate anything with Trump, but more solidifying the case against Manafort.

Rats and a sinking ship and all that.

Or, you know, the right-hand man to Manafort may have quite the story to tell that very potentially overlaps into things that incriminate people in the Trump campaign given he was Manafort's deputy and theoretically was intimately knowledgable of all of Manafort's business.

Rick Wilson said the white house should be worried. They're going after bigger fish than just Manafort.

I mean if pushed with a gun to my head I would assume part of the deal involved people close to Trump as well, if not evidence that will move very close to Trump himself, but I think it is still good to keep the breadth of possibilities open.

There is certainly a scenario where Mueller may feel his case against Manafort is not quite strong enough, or he is hoping to put more pressure on Manafort because Gates doesn't have the goods he wants and is hoping it encourages Manafort to flip. So I don't want to completely dismiss that. But if Mueller is offering a plea deal to someone like Gates, his working history suggests it shouldn't be underplayed.

Trent Dole

  • the sharpest tool in the shed
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14321 on: February 16, 2018, 01:31:03 AM »
Let's dancing
Hi

Mandark

  • Icon
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14322 on: February 16, 2018, 02:44:59 AM »
It's no conspiracy, they just know pushing public choice theory means they'll always have a cushy job.

Listen guys this was actually a really nice burn on public choice theory and I don't want people to miss out on it.

team filler

  • filler
  • filler
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14323 on: February 16, 2018, 02:54:15 AM »
public choice theory annihilated
*****

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14324 on: February 16, 2018, 03:08:47 AM »
I think the lack of interest in yet another cowardly Mandark smear by the highly rational consumers of The Bore instead provides strong evidence for the validity of public choice theory.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]

Phoenix Dark

  • I got no game it's just some bitches understand my story
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14325 on: February 16, 2018, 05:51:42 AM »
Please like for public life theory.
010

Atramental

  • 🧘‍♂️
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14326 on: February 16, 2018, 07:53:28 AM »
Speaking as a designer who deals with details all day, stop obsessing. Emotes are human caricatures anyways. How realistic is a floating head or a leg less torso, in the first place? Not very.
« Last Edit: February 16, 2018, 07:59:30 AM by Atramental »

Rufus

  • 🙈🙉🙊
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14327 on: February 16, 2018, 08:39:51 AM »
Rayman annihilated.

I'm a Puppy!

  • Knows the muffin man.
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14328 on: February 16, 2018, 10:21:30 AM »
Mitt Romney is running for Senate in Utah. Whoever runs against him will get obliterated.
que

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14329 on: February 16, 2018, 10:22:44 AM »
My ass just obliterated the toilet

Tasty

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14330 on: February 16, 2018, 11:49:32 AM »
toilet annihilated.

Etoilet keeps taking Ls ITT, damn

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
🤴

agrajag

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14332 on: February 16, 2018, 01:12:49 PM »
They probably gave up after the grab them by the pussy tape didn't work.

FStop7

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14333 on: February 16, 2018, 01:15:07 PM »
 :mueller :mueller :mueller :mueller :mueller

Skullfuckers Anonymous

  • Will hunt bullies for fruit baskets. PM for details.
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14334 on: February 16, 2018, 01:15:56 PM »
Hopefully in 2020 Clinton's campaign spends a lot less time chilling in Cedar Rapids.

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14335 on: February 16, 2018, 01:20:19 PM »
Mueller has finally indicted a bunch of Russians. About 13 internet trolls.

But here's the kicker


He basically concludes the Trump people didn't know these Russians tried to collude with them.  :doge
🤴

TakingBackSunday

  • Banana Grabber
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14336 on: February 16, 2018, 01:25:40 PM »
Mueller has finally indicted a bunch of Russians. About 13 internet trolls.

But here's the kicker
(Image removed from quote.)

He basically concludes the Trump people didn't know these Russians tried to collude with them.  :doge

That's not quite right, though.  The indictment states that local and state Trump volunteers and grass-roots campaigners were the ones falling victim to the Russian propaganda.  The indictment doesn't reference the actual Trump campaign on a national level.
püp

etiolate

  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14337 on: February 16, 2018, 01:27:41 PM »
the IRA basically trolled/created division. They are getting the Mueller for posing as US citizens.

The divisive stuff goes back decades and into the USSR. One of the rumored rallies they tried to start on social media was a BLM one.

benjipwns

  • your bright ideas always burn me
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14338 on: February 16, 2018, 01:32:32 PM »
anything in the indictment about thehunter116? i notice he was strangely silent about this bombshell revelation i came across in the washington post comments section

Nintex

  • Finish the Fight
  • Senior Member
Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| The Benji Memo
« Reply #14339 on: February 16, 2018, 01:33:32 PM »
My gawd, this trolling  :lol
🤴