US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[curly]

https://twitter.com/EWErickson/status/1045406173753757696

lol

[Great Rumbler]

https://twitter.com/EWErickson/status/1045406173753757696

lol

Nothing he said was about convincing the American public [or Democrats in the Senate] that he should be on the SCOTUS, but rather in convincing 51 Republican Senators [actually just 3, since that's how few there are who would ever even consider voting against a conservative judge up for the SCOTUS] to vote Yes.

[shosta]

Are any of the alleged victims going to testify to congress?

[Dickie Dee]

https://twitter.com/HunterDK/status/1045417457660252160

[Akala]

I flipped on for some of the Kav questions, but it was unwatchable. Discourse in this country is irreparably still fucked, everything is entirely partisan regardless of actual value or benefit.

Wondering how close this is to the Clarence Thomas sessions back in the day in tone and content, but not enough to actually look into. I'm sure someone will put something together.

[TakingBackSunday]

Today is the angriest I've been since the Charlottesville Trump press conference.

I'm probably going to be even angrier tomorrow.

[Great Rumbler]

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1045420473633394688/video/1

This guy is, like, just a mass of congealed white man entitlement.

[Mandark]

https://twitter.com/Ali_Gharib/status/1045422649692827649


2018, everybody!

[Boredfrom]

I flipped on for some of the Kav questions, but it was unwatchable. Discourse in this country is irreparably still fucked, everything is entirely partisan regardless of actual value or benefit.

both sides, you guys

Nah, if Democrats are still unwilling to play hardball after this shit show... the guy is a scumbag that is infuriating that they still playing ball.

[Mandark]

This reminds me of the ACA repeal, where everything was so blatantly, egregiously fucked up (in terms of process, policy, public opinion, everything) yet there were only ever 3 or 4 Republican Senators in play, and we all just accepted that 90% of their caucus was a lock regardless.

The only chance Kavanaugh isn't confirmed depends on two women holding out against pressure from the rest of the caucus.

[shosta]

It's tough because Kavanaugh is extremely valuable as a rubber stamp for federal overreach. If they just wanted a right leaning justice, they could just get this over with by voting him down and nominating any of the other conservative justices out there, but nobody out there is as special as this guy.

[agrajag]

Are any of the alleged victims going to testify to congress?

Huh? They didn't even entertain any of the other women that came forward besides Ford.

[Stro]

This whole thing is as embarrassing as Trump being president

[agrajag]

Who's down for getting boofed tonight and participating in a good ol fashioned devil's triangle?

[Akala]

both sides, you guys

??

One side is obviously more in the wrong in this case, all signs point to the dude being a scumbag and he should have been shut down pretty much immediately. It's just gross seeing people I know that are in most facets I guess decent people doing the mental gymnastics to be ok with rallying behind someone so shitty, and I wish it wasn't the case.

[Propagandhim]

Dude, what's the url

[Stro]

I can't believe this dude wouldn't be disqualified for his behavior and outbursts today, not even the yelling at senators and threatening "what goes around comes around" against Dems, refusing to answer questions and asking a senator who just was talking about her father's struggles with alcoholism if she had a drinking problem.

This dude was literally screaming for the first hour.

[Nintex]

I can't believe this dude wouldn't be disqualified for his behavior and outbursts today, not even the yelling at senators and threatening "what goes around comes around" against Dems, refusing to answer questions and asking a senator who just was talking about her father's struggles with alcoholism if she had a drinking problem.

This dude was literally screaming for the first hour.

The Republicans are about to confirm General Hux to the Supreme Court without blinking an eye.

[Mandark]

I can't believe this dude wouldn't be disqualified for his behavior and outbursts today, not even the yelling at senators and threatening "what goes around comes around" against Dems, refusing to answer questions and asking a senator who just was talking about her father's struggles with alcoholism if she had a drinking problem.

This dude was literally screaming for the first hour.

This thing feels like it was scripted by an SJW trying to illustrate their points about privilege and patriarchy in the most obvious, ham-handed way possible.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

that description also applies to basically every day of the Trump presidency, so

[close]

[Boredfrom]

lol All this stuff reminds me of Mexican politics... and that is not a good sign for you guys...

[Stro]

lol All this stuff reminds me of Mexican politics... and that is not a good sign for you guys...

Wow you just made the most valid point for building the wall

[Boredfrom]

lol All this stuff reminds me of Mexican politics... and that is not a good sign for you guys...

Wow you just made the most valid point for building the wall

Is Donald Trump a secret Mexican?

[Maiden Voyage]

Today is the angriest I've been since the Charlottesville Trump press conference.

I'm probably going to be even angrier tomorrow.

Same here. This is outrageous.

[agrajag]

He doesn't have the temperament

[agrajag]

Watch Joe Manchin vote yes. 

[curly]

this is such a stupid shitty country

[curly]

also the sjws are right, white men are garbage

[agrajag]

#notallwhitemen

[Propagandhim]

The denial for the investigation seems reasonably strategic to me and not really indicative of guilt.    An FBI investigation could potentially stall until midterms where they could risk losing the Senate and the confirmation.  Do I have this wrong?  What am I missing here?   Of course the implication is that Ford is lying, which seems hard to believe, too.  Nothing I saw today seemed so egregiously determinate of guilt.

[Maiden Voyage]

https://twitter.com/LisaDNews/status/1045464083162640384

Looks like we have a new justice

[Propagandhim]

https://twitter.com/LisaDNews/status/1045464083162640384

Looks like we have a new justice

So given that the vote will happen tomorrow, it seems like not acquiescing to all the pleading for an investigation was not an indication of guilt, but actually a reasonable course of action for an individual who wants to work on the Supreme Court?  "If he's innocent why won't he allow an FBI investigation?"  Uhhh, he's not an imbecile?

[Boredfrom]

The denial for the investigation seems reasonably strategic to me and not really indicative of guilt.    An FBI investigation could potentially stall until midterms where they could risk losing the Senate and the confirmation.  Do I have this wrong?  What am I missing here?   Of course the implication is that Ford is lying, which seems hard to believe, too.  Nothing I saw today seemed so egregiously determinate of guilt.

The problem is that it shouldn’t be this way. Whatever or not he is innocent, the priority should be make the investigation over politics.

So given that the vote will happen tomorrow, it seems like not acquiescing to all the pleading for an investigation was not an indication of guilt, but actually a reasonable course of action for an individual who wants to work on the Supreme Court?  "If he's innocent why won't he allow an FBI investigation?"  Uhhh, he's not an imbecile?

 

He is a fucking judge.

[Propagandhim]

The denial for the investigation seems reasonably strategic to me and not really indicative of guilt.    An FBI investigation could potentially stall until midterms where they could risk losing the Senate and the confirmation.  Do I have this wrong?  What am I missing here?   Of course the implication is that Ford is lying, which seems hard to believe, too.  Nothing I saw today seemed so egregiously determinate of guilt.

The problem is that it shouldn’t be this way. Whatever or not he is innocent, the priority should be make the investigation over politics.

So given that the vote will happen tomorrow, it seems like not acquiescing to all the pleading for an investigation was not an indication of guilt, but actually a reasonable course of action for an individual who wants to work on the Supreme Court?  "If he's innocent why won't he allow an FBI investigation?"  Uhhh, he's not an imbecile?

 

He is a fucking judge.

Not a rhetorical question:  Why is it his prerogative to allow for an FBI investigation?  Why are we relying on the desires of the accused if that's 'not the way it should be'?  It's not a surprise that he would say no to an investigation spurned by people that are trying to deny a Republican judge pick at all costs.  I don't blame him at all.   So, why do we need his go-ahead? 

[Boredfrom]

The denial for the investigation seems reasonably strategic to me and not really indicative of guilt.    An FBI investigation could potentially stall until midterms where they could risk losing the Senate and the confirmation.  Do I have this wrong?  What am I missing here?   Of course the implication is that Ford is lying, which seems hard to believe, too.  Nothing I saw today seemed so egregiously determinate of guilt.

The problem is that it shouldn’t be this way. Whatever or not he is innocent, the priority should be make the investigation over politics.

So given that the vote will happen tomorrow, it seems like not acquiescing to all the pleading for an investigation was not an indication of guilt, but actually a reasonable course of action for an individual who wants to work on the Supreme Court?  "If he's innocent why won't he allow an FBI investigation?"  Uhhh, he's not an imbecile?

 

He is a fucking judge.

Not a rhetorical question:  Why is it his prerogative to allow for an FBI investigation?  Why are we relying on the desires of the accused if that's not the way it should be?  It's not a surprise that he would say no to an investigation spurned by people that are trying to deny a Republican judge pick at all costs.  Why do we need his go-ahead?

You mean, the job where the whole point is being impartial and fair?

[Mandark]

if you think Ford is lying just say so

[Maiden Voyage]

The thought that the Senate is holding a vote only because Trump demanded it entered my mind, but then I realized that was crazy talk.

I do hope there is a comparable McCain thumbs down moment that implodes the whole thing.

[Great Rumbler]

The thought that the Senate is holding a vote only because Trump demanded it entered my mind, but then I realized that was crazy talk.

I do hope there is a comparable McCain thumbs down moment that implodes the whole thing.

Could be they've got 49 confirmed Yes are hoping that forcing the issue will cause one of the two No's to flip at the last minute, but that's a really optimistic take.

[james]

He needs to be taken out

[Propagandhim]

The denial for the investigation seems reasonably strategic to me and not really indicative of guilt.    An FBI investigation could potentially stall until midterms where they could risk losing the Senate and the confirmation.  Do I have this wrong?  What am I missing here?   Of course the implication is that Ford is lying, which seems hard to believe, too.  Nothing I saw today seemed so egregiously determinate of guilt.

The problem is that it shouldn’t be this way. Whatever or not he is innocent, the priority should be make the investigation over politics.

So given that the vote will happen tomorrow, it seems like not acquiescing to all the pleading for an investigation was not an indication of guilt, but actually a reasonable course of action for an individual who wants to work on the Supreme Court?  "If he's innocent why won't he allow an FBI investigation?"  Uhhh, he's not an imbecile?

 

He is a fucking judge.

Not a rhetorical question:  Why is it his prerogative to allow for an FBI investigation?  Why are we relying on the desires of the accused if that's not the way it should be?  It's not a surprise that he would say no to an investigation spurned by people that are trying to deny a Republican judge pick at all costs.  Why do we need his go-ahead?

You mean, the job where the whole point is being impartial and fair?

So his denial of an investigation is an indication of bad moral character.  The guy is a liar.  Why isn't the system set up to deal with this predicament?   Why are we relying on a liar and a morally bankrupt charlatan's prerogative here?  That's my question here.
 

[Mandark]

The thought that the Senate is holding a vote only because Trump demanded it entered my mind, but then I realized that was crazy talk.

I do hope there is a comparable McCain thumbs down moment that implodes the whole thing.

Could be they've got 49 confirmed Yes are hoping that forcing the issue will cause one of the two No's to flip at the last minute, but that's a really optimistic take.

I think this is right. Collins and Murkowski (and maybe Flake) are probably not officially Yes at this point, and from McConnell's perspective waiting a week doesn't improve the odds, and leaves less time to squeeze a replacement through. They've been willing to hold votes on bills where they didn't have the votes for sure (ACA repeal, immigration, some other stuff I'm forgetting), so there's a precedent.

Still think he gets confirmed, but that seems like the state of things right now.

[agrajag]

That's some circular logic homie.

[agrajag]

I'm just saying guys, prepare for a punch to the gut in the form of Manchin voting yes. He was huddling with Collins, Murkowski and Flake. They are all gonna vote yes

[Maiden Voyage]

I think he is confirmed and this hurts the Republicans during the midterms. Then the voters forget by 2020.

[shosta]

As noted earlier by a dissident voice with a Cassandra complex, an investigation wouldn't matter. The committee can already interview anyone they want to get their hands on, although an FBI investigation would be much faster (the one over Clarence Thomas lasted just four days, didn't it?). Even if Kavanaugh is innocent, which I don't believe, but assuming he was, he still wouldn't want an investigation to happen because all it does is put more attention on his accusers (and we already know what they're going to say—that he raped or attempted to rape them!), tarnish his name, and give Republicans another headache during the midterms.

The solution to all of this of course is to just drop him and take Amy Barrett but that would be way too easy.

I think he is confirmed and this hurts the Republicans during the midterms. Then the voters forget by 2020.

I don't think this really affects anyone who wasn't already disgusted by Trump. The needle won't budge, not even this year.

[Boredfrom]

The denial for the investigation seems reasonably strategic to me and not really indicative of guilt.    An FBI investigation could potentially stall until midterms where they could risk losing the Senate and the confirmation.  Do I have this wrong?  What am I missing here?   Of course the implication is that Ford is lying, which seems hard to believe, too.  Nothing I saw today seemed so egregiously determinate of guilt.

The problem is that it shouldn’t be this way. Whatever or not he is innocent, the priority should be make the investigation over politics.

So given that the vote will happen tomorrow, it seems like not acquiescing to all the pleading for an investigation was not an indication of guilt, but actually a reasonable course of action for an individual who wants to work on the Supreme Court?  "If he's innocent why won't he allow an FBI investigation?"  Uhhh, he's not an imbecile?

 

He is a fucking judge.

Not a rhetorical question:  Why is it his prerogative to allow for an FBI investigation?  Why are we relying on the desires of the accused if that's not the way it should be?  It's not a surprise that he would say no to an investigation spurned by people that are trying to deny a Republican judge pick at all costs.  Why do we need his go-ahead?

You mean, the job where the whole point is being impartial and fair?

So his denial of an investigation is an indication of bad moral character.  The guy is a liar.  Why isn't the system set up to deal with this predicament?   Why are we relying on a liar and a morally bankrupt charlatan's prerogative here?  That's my question here.

“Why people want to have some standards?”

[Stro]

The denial for the investigation seems reasonably strategic to me and not really indicative of guilt.    An FBI investigation could potentially stall until midterms where they could risk losing the Senate and the confirmation.  Do I have this wrong?  What am I missing here?   Of course the implication is that Ford is lying, which seems hard to believe, too.  Nothing I saw today seemed so egregiously determinate of guilt.

A full FBI investigation could have been started and finished in the time they've been talking about having an investigation over the past 11 days. Starting one tomorrow would be finished before the end of next week. Republicans acting like this could last a full month and go past mid terms are absolutely full of shit, they're worried about it making Kav look guilty and then them not being able to force him through.

What they are worried about is pushing this shit though as quickly as possible because they're worried if for any reason this isn't done by mid terms, they won't be able to get anyone put in due to losing so many seats. There are 10 other conservative judges that could get confirmed with little to no resistance from Dems, but they're stuck on this guy because A. He's super duper right wing B. Trump loves the guy and really wants him, and these fucks are giant pussies who suck up to Trump regardless of how against him they were during 2016.

[Mandark]

The committee can already interview anyone they want to get their hands on

how salient is that when they're deliberately not interviewing anyone else in order to protect kavanaugh?

[agrajag]

I think he is confirmed and this hurts the Republicans during the midterms. Then the voters forget by 2020.

My take is that this can't hurt them more than the already oncoming blue wave. The question is, does the confirmation energize the Republican voters to go to the polls, or do they stay complacent, basking in the euphoria of their victory?

[Maiden Voyage]

I think he is confirmed and this hurts the Republicans during the midterms. Then the voters forget by 2020.

My take is that this can't hurt them more than the already oncoming blue wave. The question is, does the confirmation energize the Republican voters to go to the polls, or do they stay complacent, basking in the euphoria of their victory?

I'm largely skeptical of the blue wave, to be honest. Liberals don't show up to vote. If people are angered close to election, I see it as more likely.

[Boredfrom]

I think he is confirmed and this hurts the Republicans during the midterms. Then the voters forget by 2020.

My take is that this can't hurt them more than the already oncoming blue wave. The question is, does the confirmation energize the Republican voters to go to the polls, or do they stay complacent, basking in the euphoria of their victory?

I'm largely skeptical of the blue wave, to be honest. Liberals don't show up to vote. If people are angered close to election, I see it as more likely.

Lol People are perpetually angry at this point.

[Stro]

The committee can already interview anyone they want to get their hands on

how salient is that when they're deliberately not interviewing anyone else in order to protect kavanaugh?

Right. They're going full head in the sand for this, blatantly and openly for partisan reasons. It's pretty fucking crazy, really. Don't have to say you confirmed a sexual abuser if you won't allow any evidence that might prove he's a sexual abuser to be heard 

[Mandark]

I'm largely skeptical of the blue wave, to be honest. Liberals don't show up to vote. If people are angered close to election, I see it as more likely.

Dems are going to have a big margin in total votes cast in the House, but districting and clustering means they still might not get a majority. Could be the electoral college all over again.

[agrajag]

well, if polls are to be believed (and I guess there is some lingering doubt concerning those), Democratic voters' enthusiasm is at a historic high compared to previous midterms. Sure, this might energize more women to come vote, but I tend to think the woman vote might've been near maxed out prior to this. And for any additional votes, Kav's performance today might drive more white men with a hurt sense of entitlement and "women for Kavanaugh" types to cancel the women vote out..

[Propagandhim]

The denial for the investigation seems reasonably strategic to me and not really indicative of guilt.    An FBI investigation could potentially stall until midterms where they could risk losing the Senate and the confirmation.  Do I have this wrong?  What am I missing here?   Of course the implication is that Ford is lying, which seems hard to believe, too.  Nothing I saw today seemed so egregiously determinate of guilt.

The problem is that it shouldn’t be this way. Whatever or not he is innocent, the priority should be make the investigation over politics.

So given that the vote will happen tomorrow, it seems like not acquiescing to all the pleading for an investigation was not an indication of guilt, but actually a reasonable course of action for an individual who wants to work on the Supreme Court?  "If he's innocent why won't he allow an FBI investigation?"  Uhhh, he's not an imbecile?

 

He is a fucking judge.

Not a rhetorical question:  Why is it his prerogative to allow for an FBI investigation?  Why are we relying on the desires of the accused if that's not the way it should be?  It's not a surprise that he would say no to an investigation spurned by people that are trying to deny a Republican judge pick at all costs.  Why do we need his go-ahead?

You mean, the job where the whole point is being impartial and fair?

So his denial of an investigation is an indication of bad moral character.  The guy is a liar.  Why isn't the system set up to deal with this predicament?   Why are we relying on a liar and a morally bankrupt charlatan's prerogative here?  That's my question here.

“Why people want to have some standards?”

True, they should have found a different nominee.  At the same time, I can understand stepping down would be a tacit admission of guilt, which would be completely unacceptable to an innocent man and could destroy your career forever.  So in the absence of the truth, I see him not backing down as reasonable.   Obviously I'm making these inferences from the assumption that he's innocent.  I can't imagine Ford is lying, either.  I'm genuinely at a loss with what to think with this.

[Stro]

Republican enthusiasm is almost just as high as Democrat enthusiasm, but Republican voters almost always turn out more by default sooo

What I don't get are these TV ads imploring to confirm Kav...but they're like voter ads. This isn't a voter issue, so who are those ads targeting?

[Mandark]

True, they should have found a different nominee.  At the same time, I can understand stepping down would be a tacit admission of guilt, which would be completely unacceptable to an innocent man and could destroy your career forever.  So in the absence of the truth, I see him not backing down as reasonable.   Obviously I'm making these inferences from the assumption that he's innocent.  I can't imagine Ford is lying, either.  I'm genuinely at a loss with what to think with this.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

he's probably guilty, dude

[close]

[agrajag]

The Jeff Flake of the Bore

[Mandark]

What I don't get are these TV ads imploring to confirm Kav...but they're like voter ads. This isn't a voter issue, so who are those ads targeting?

I see a lot of stuff like that but I'm in the DC media market, so those ads are also targeting Thought Leaders and Thinkfluencers.

These mostly aim at states with a potential swing vote Senator, or a close upcoming Senate race, trying to pressure them via public opinion.

[shosta]

how salient is that when they're deliberately not interviewing anyone else in order to protect kavanaugh?

Well, the benefit of the subpoena is that they're under oath when they testify. Kavanaugh has already made statements about Ramirez and Swetnick under oath today. Swetnick herself already gave sworn testimony about her particular accusation. The only thing that would come out of hauling the accusers before Congress is to make a political circus for people to gawk at, and by extension the only point of an FBI investigation at this point is for them to write down their statements so that the senators can read them out loud to Kavanaugh and tell him he's an evil person. Which is what you want if you're a Democrat but ultimately inconsequential as far as the hearings are concerned. We already know everything we need to know. The Republicans have made up their mind. It's up to constituents to punish them for that should they choose to do so. I hope Murkowski and Collins don't betray women but you can't be sure.

This confirmation is ethically derelict, but I don't see this as some kind of perversion or neglect of process.

[Kara]

Things can destroy the career of a conservative federal judge? News to me.