US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[shosta]

By the way

It's not funny that a serial rapist will be occupying a political office that masquerades as an independent judiciary for life.

Yes it is!

Now that I fully realize he is going to be confirmed, it's not funny anymore

[Mandark]

Even with the handicap of working a cold case, you're selling short what investigators would be able to do, Shosta. Kavanaugh made a bunch of statements about his past behavior, specifically his drinking, that could be confirmed or refuted by third parties. Which is pretty relevant cause Kav's defense relies on asserting that he would never have an alcohol-fueled memory gap.

[shosta]

First off, no, his defense relies on "I'm a good person, it never happened, here are all these women who also say I'm a good person and four witnesses in particular". Second, I forget the particular exchange but he explicitly denied ever being blackout drunk and then refused to answer the clarifying question, so he definitely has been, but honestly: if it suddenly was corroborated by a friend that he has been blackout drunk before, is that really a smoking gun? Or does that even provide a better picture of his life that can be used to determine whether or not he assaulted this woman in highschool?

He admitted to partying a lot. Saying he never blacked out is equivalent to "but I didn't inhale". There are several women willing to ruin his reputation and life by alleging sexual misconduct. That is enough for me, and it should be enough for everyone. If that isn't enough to budge the calculus of certain people then no amount of circumstantial evidence is, certainly not the fuzzy kind you'd get from an investigation. Be real.

[Mandark]

Be real.

here i am being nice to you in spite of all your shitty posts and you come at me with this tone

for shame

[shosta]

coward

[agrajag]

Whatever happened to Nola?

[Stro]

First off, no, his defense relies on "I'm a good person, it never happened, here are all these women who also say I'm a good person and four witnesses in particular". Second, I forget the particular exchange but he explicitly denied ever being blackout drunk and then refused to answer the clarifying question, so he definitely has been, but honestly: if it suddenly was corroborated by a friend that he has been blackout drunk before, is that really a smoking gun? Or does that even provide a better picture of his life that can be used to determine whether or not he assaulted this woman in highschool?

He admitted to partying a lot. Saying he never blacked out is equivalent to "but I didn't inhale". There are several women willing to ruin his reputation and life by alleging sexual misconduct. That is enough for me, and it should be enough for everyone. If that isn't enough to budge the calculus of certain people then no amount of circumstantial evidence is, certainly not the fuzzy kind you'd get from an investigation. Be real.

He's intentionally misleading with that "four witnesses say it didn't happen" thing. 2 said they don't recall (not that it didn't happen), 1 is the other accused, and 1 other didn't know.

[Stro]

First off, no, his defense relies on "I'm a good person, it never happened, here are all these women who also say I'm a good person and four witnesses in particular". Second, I forget the particular exchange but he explicitly denied ever being blackout drunk and then refused to answer the clarifying question, so he definitely has been, but honestly: if it suddenly was corroborated by a friend that he has been blackout drunk before, is that really a smoking gun? Or does that even provide a better picture of his life that can be used to determine whether or not he assaulted this woman in highschool?

He admitted to partying a lot. Saying he never blacked out is equivalent to "but I didn't inhale". There are several women willing to ruin his reputation and life by alleging sexual misconduct. That is enough for me, and it should be enough for everyone. If that isn't enough to budge the calculus of certain people then no amount of circumstantial evidence is, certainly not the fuzzy kind you'd get from an investigation. Be real.

There are now 10 other things unrelated to the Ford thing that should disqualify him from getting any votes. He was a disaster on all fronts. He could be 100% innocent, Ford could actually be the Clinton Deep State sleeper agent he refused to deny she was despite multiple soft ball pitches to do so, and his temperament and lack of decorum and respect should be enough for no one to want him possibly deciding shit for the country for the next 40 years.

[Great Rumbler]

I know sometimes it feels like things couldn't possibly get any worse and that eventually it'll start to get better, but then a day like today happens and it reminds us all that things can always get worse and there's no guarantee that tomorrow will be better.

[Propagandhim]

I know sometimes it feels like things couldn't possibly get any worse and that eventually it'll start to get better, but then a day like today happens and it reminds us all that things can always get worse and there's no guarantee that tomorrow will be better.

And then Ginsberg and Breyer die in an incumbent presidency.

[shosta]

naturally I checked Bill Kristol's twitter tonight

https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1045482892527382528
https://twitter.com/BillKristol/status/1045484642105790464

these takes are pretty bad.

[agrajag]

Kristol's smug avatar makes those tweets

[shosta]

https://babylonbee.com/news/kavanaugh-produces-star-wars-bed-sheets-to-prove-he-was-virgin-in-high-school

[kingv]

I think he is confirmed and this hurts the Republicans during the midterms. Then the voters forget by 2020.

I do feel like if this happens the Dems have a solid shot at taking the Senate. Something that would have been unheard of 18 months ago.

I suspect if Republicans can get to 51, they will pick up Manchin.

[VomKriege]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/kavanaugh/570409/

Just for a not completely crazy conservative opinion.

[seagrams hotsauce]

luckily he's a shitty gambler, so there's still a slim chance his bookie will cut his brake lines

[Maiden Voyage]

American Bar Association: Delay Kavanaugh until FBI investigates assault allegations

In a strongly worded letter obtained by CNN Thursday, the organization said it is making the extraordinary request "because of the ABA's respect for the rule of law and due process under law," siding with concerns voiced by Senate Democrats since Christine Blasey Ford's decades-old allegations became public.

"The basic principles that underscore the Senate's constitutional duty of advice and consent on federal judicial nominees require nothing less than a careful examination of the accusations and facts by the FBI," said Robert Carlson, president of the organization, in a Thursday night letter addressed to Senate Judiciary Chairman Chuck Grassley and ranking Democrat Dianne Feinstein.

"Each appointment to our nation's Highest Court (as with all others) is simply too important to rush to a vote," Carlson wrote. "Deciding to proceed without conducting additional investigation would not only have a lasting impact on the Senate's reputation, but it will also negatively affect the great trust necessary for the American people to have in the Supreme Court."

https://www.cnn.com/2018/09/27/politics/kavanaugh-american-bar-association/index.html

[Stro]

I know sometimes it feels like things couldn't possibly get any worse and that eventually it'll start to get better, but then a day like today happens and it reminds us all that things can always get worse and there's no guarantee that tomorrow will be better.

And then Ginsberg and Breyer die in an incumbent presidency.

RE won't admit it now, but they're secretly going to love the conservative dystopian future America is about to get plunged into.

[Propagandhim]

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/09/kavanaugh/570409/

Just for a not completely crazy conservative opinion.

Frum doesn't admit he's the quintessential moderate because he knows how toxic that word is, plus he loves to preamble all his letters with "As a conservative", as some sort of credit to himself when he's always cosigning to the Democrat perspective on contention.   God, David.  Just say you're a progressive that leans right on a few things.  Who cares?  You're right most of the time anyway, you war criminal.   

[Stro]

Just in case you didn't inherently know that Lindsey Graham is completely fully of shit:

The Dems asked for multiple witness to be called weeks ago, including Mark Judge.

Mark Judge is unwilling to cooperate, meaning for him to speak would either need a FBI investigation, or a subpoena from the Republicans.

The Democrats asked for a subpoena.

The Republicans will not subpoena Mark Judge, will not ask for a FBI investigation, which would include Mark Judge being interviewed under oath. 


Mark Judge is the other accused, Kav's best friend from the time, his best character witness. The Republicans are doing everything they can do to avoid having him speak on the record about anything, likely because Kav would end up being shown to have perjured himself about multiple things, particularly blatantly and repeatedly lying about his drinking habits, possibly up to and including the alleged assault.

[agrajag]

Reports are saying Flake is a yes. Quelle surprise.

[james]

This country is lost because the greatest objection to this attack on democracy the left can muster is "dont forget to vote in November"

Not "shut down the highways"
Not "call a general strike"
Not "launch guerrilla warfare"

Just "dont forget to vote (even though none of the resetera mods do)"

[Mandark]

After hearing more than 30 hours of testimony from Judge Kavanaugh earlier this month, I was prepared to support his nomination based on his view of the law and record as a judge. In fact, I commented at the time that had he been nominated in another era, he would have likely received 90+ votes.

When Dr. Ford's allegations against Judge Kavanaugh surfaced two weeks ago, I insisted that she be allowed to testify before the committee moved to vote. Yesterday, we heard compelling testimony from Dr. Ford, as well as a persuasive response from Judge Kavanaugh. I wish that I could express the confidence that some of my colleagues have conveyed about what either did or did not happen in the early 1980s, but I left the hearing yesterday with as much doubt as certainty.

What I do know is that our system of justice affords a presumption of innocence to the accused, absent corroborating evidence. That is what binds us to the rule of law. While some may argue that a different standard should apply regarding the Senate's advice and consent responsibilities, I believe that the constitution's provisions of fairness and due process apply here as well.

Last paragraph is such bullshit. He's not extending "due process" to this case to live up to the spirit of the law, he's taking the one thing from the criminal justice system (presumption of innocence) that would help Kavanaugh while ignoring the rest (a police investigation, calling multiple witnesses, etc.).

As Stro pointed out, there's a possible eyewitness that they're just letting chill in Bethany Beach! Hell, there are two other women who have gone public with accusations and there seems to be zero interest from the SJC in hearing them.

[Great Rumbler]

Never mind that this isn't a criminal case, it's a job interview. For the one of the most important jobs in the entire country.

Flake is just being true to his name.

[agrajag]

How dude that is shamelessly lying about his past right now have the character for the highest office in the judicial branch?

[Mandark]

Round of applause to all the sites that ran "Has #metoo Gone Too Far?" essays the last couple months.

Amazing timing, guys.

[Propagandhim]

How dude that is shamelessly lying about his past right now have the character for the highest office in the judicial branch?

Too bad Cuomo ruined it by putting it out there in the interview that this woman is a Republican.    Now Era-minded folks can't use this video because there's no integrity in a racist's testimony.  Huge loss. 

[Mandark]

you dipshits keep the other forum talk to the trash thread

[Propagandhim]

you dipshits keep the other forum talk to the trash thread

   Sorry

[Kara]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/trump-administration-sees-a-7-degree-rise-in-global-temperatures-by-2100/2018/09/27/

[Mandark]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/trump-administration-sees-a-7-degree-rise-in-global-temperatures-by-2100/2018/09/27/

Best part is that they're using a dire projection of global warming to argue AGAINST emission standards, on the reasoning of "we're fucked anyways."

[agrajag]

How dude that is shamelessly lying about his past right now have the character for the highest office in the judicial branch?

Too bad Cuomo ruined it by putting it out there in the interview that this woman is a Republican.    Now Era-minded folks can't use this video because there's no integrity in a racist's testimony.  Huge loss.

this isn't the Era thread, guy.

[Great Rumbler]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/national/health-science/trump-administration-sees-a-7-degree-rise-in-global-temperatures-by-2100/2018/09/27/

Best part is that they're using a dire projection of global warming to argue AGAINST emission standards, on the reasoning of "we're fucked anyways."

Step 1: Argue that climate change isn't real and oppose any and all legislation to curb greenhouse gases until we're past the point where climate change can be stopped
Step 2: Admit that climate change can't be stopped so there's no longer any reason to curb greenhouse gases
Step 3: ???
Step 4: Profit...?

[Mandark]

"Nobody really knows how the climate is going to change."

"The data shows temperatures have plateaued and might be falling."

"The data shows temperatures rising, but only because they were rigged."

"Rising temperatures are caused by sunspot activity."

"Of course humans are causing global warming, but it's too late to do anything about it."

[james]

Im making a ranking of shithole countries and Im having trouble slotting the US in

1. Syria
2. Venezuela
3. USA
4. North Korea
5. Zimbabwe

Thoughts?

[Kara]

Step 1: Argue that climate change isn't real and oppose any and all legislation to curb greenhouse gases until we're past the point where climate change can be stopped
Step 2: Admit that climate change can't be stopped so there's no longer any reason to curb greenhouse gases
Step 3:
Step 4: Profit...?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/jul/08/exxon-climate-change-1981-climate-denier-funding

[Mandark]

A lot of the people who made a living off climate change denial did similar work for the tobacco industry previously.

Which just shows that COPD is a leftist conspiracy.

[Propagandhim]

It's always been strange to me that the idea of this environmental catastrophe which will absolutely ensure massive migrant crisis never moves the needle in these so called anti-globalists minds.   You'd think that if cartoon depictions of Manhattan underwater isn't going to work, the ones with massive swells of migrants seeking refuge into Europe and North America would make them be cautious in the absence of absolute belief or comprehension of the problem.  Like they would decide it'd be a good time to appeal to authority when it concerns your worst nightmare -- demographic displacement.    But they don't -- they don't budge.    It's like you can't even speak to their own nature. 

[CatsCatsCats]

They probably just figure they’ll die. Gotta get closer to that Georgia Guidestone ideal

[james]

A friend of mine who was raped in high school is having a really horrible time today, I dont know what to message her

[Kara]

It's always been strange to me that the idea of this environmental catastrophe which will absolutely ensure massive migrant crisis never moves the needle in these so called anti-globalists minds.   You'd think that if cartoon depictions of Manhattan underwater isn't going to work, the ones with massive swells of migrants seeking refuge into Europe and North America would make them be cautious in the absence of absolute belief or comprehension of the problem.  Like they would decide it'd be a good time to appeal to authority when it concerns your worst nightmare -- demographic displacement.    But they don't -- they don't budge.    It's like you can't even speak to their own nature.

Why worry when your militaries have been murdering people in the periphery for decades? Are they going to care when it's 50 miles off the coast instead of 5,000 and mutiny?

[TakingBackSunday]

I called and emailed Corker

not that it'll matter

[Maiden Voyage]

Im making a ranking of shithole countries and Im having trouble slotting the US in

1. Syria
2. Venezuela
3. USA
4. North Korea
5. Zimbabwe

Thoughts?

Move NK up a spot and it's not a bad start.

[james]

Im making a ranking of shithole countries and Im having trouble slotting the US in

1. Syria
2. Venezuela
3. USA
4. North Korea
5. Zimbabwe

Thoughts?

Move NK up a spot and it's not a bad start.

My reasoning is that most of the North Korean people are probably pretty decent.

[Propagandhim]

It's always been strange to me that the idea of this environmental catastrophe which will absolutely ensure massive migrant crisis never moves the needle in these so called anti-globalists minds.   You'd think that if cartoon depictions of Manhattan underwater isn't going to work, the ones with massive swells of migrants seeking refuge into Europe and North America would make them be cautious in the absence of absolute belief or comprehension of the problem.  Like they would decide it'd be a good time to appeal to authority when it concerns your worst nightmare -- demographic displacement.    But they don't -- they don't budge.    It's like you can't even speak to their own nature.

Why worry when your militaries have been murdering people in the periphery for decades? Are they going to care when it's 50 miles off the coast instead of 5,000 and mutiny?

No, I mean they actually don't think such a crisis is going to occur.  It's not even a possibility for them.  All their arguments concern the falsity of the problem, not their ability to maintain the current system in the face of it.  The Himalayan glaciers will melt, threatening the water supply of all of South East Asia.  300 million in India already have no access to clean water.  Those glaciers alone will pose a huge problem.  If you really prod these people, they actually truly don't believe they'll even melt, not that they don't understand how a problem in India will affect them in Europe and America.  You can't get through to them.

[Mandark]

Two more things about Kavanaugh that are bugging me:

First, the legal drinking age thing. He says it was legal for seniors to drink since the age was 18 in Maryland at the time. In fact it was raised to 21 when he was still 17. There is NO WAY he doesn't remember that. Imagine a bunch of boozy teenagers on the cusp of buying beer legally, then at the last moment they have to wait three more years. Especially for a teen who would testify to Congress decades later about how deeply he loves beer. That would have been a huge grievance and they would have spent months bitching about it.

Second, saying the four witnesses "contradicted" Ford's testimony, or exonerated him, or however he phrased it. They said they didn't remember a specific party 35 years ago, which is a very different thing. This is already shitty behavior whenever a politician or operative repeats it as a talking point, but he's a judge up for a SCOTUS seat. He's deliberately lying about the probative value of evidence! He's a judge! That's not good!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have a wicked sinus infection and my whole day is going to be spent Mad Online.

[close]

[agrajag]

It's always been strange to me that the idea of this environmental catastrophe which will absolutely ensure massive migrant crisis never moves the needle in these so called anti-globalists minds.   You'd think that if cartoon depictions of Manhattan underwater isn't going to work, the ones with massive swells of migrants seeking refuge into Europe and North America would make them be cautious in the absence of absolute belief or comprehension of the problem.  Like they would decide it'd be a good time to appeal to authority when it concerns your worst nightmare -- demographic displacement.    But they don't -- they don't budge.    It's like you can't even speak to their own nature.

They'll be dead by the time that happens. Why worry about your children's future when you can line your pockets in the present?

[agrajag]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that second point as well, Mandark. He's already shown to not be an unbiased or competent judge by misrepresenting witnesses. That alone should disqualify him, but GOP don't curr.

[Mandark]

REMEMBER WHEN TED CRUZ TREATED JAMES GUNN'S EDGELORD TWEETS AS A CONFESSION TO ACTUAL CRIMES AND SAID HE SHOULD BE PROSECUTED!?

[agrajag]

No? That actually happened?

[Mandark]

https://twitter.com/tedcruz/status/1020665661486522368


Clearly more credible than women coming forward as victims.

[agrajag]

What a joke.

[james]

I need to log off before I start punching the screen

[Joe Molotov]

I'd love for Beto to beat that ass, even though I don't see it.

[Kara]

No, I mean they actually don't think such a crisis is going to occur.  It's not even a possibility for them.  All their arguments concern the falsity of the problem, not their ability to maintain the current system in the face of it.  The Himalayan glaciers will melt, threatening the water supply of all of South East Asia.  300 million in India already have no access to clean water.  Those glaciers alone will pose a huge problem.  If you really prod these people, they actually truly don't believe they'll even melt, not that they don't understand how a problem in India will affect them in Europe and America.  You can't get through to them.

The other week I was a party to a meeting about something I can't be specific about. The person affected by the issue had trinal citizenship, one of which was to a country people assume will not be as affected by anthropogenic climate change as everywhere else because part of it lies within the Arctic Circle. That particular citizenship was causing the brunt of the issue we were meeting about so eventually someone on my side of the table asked why the person just didn't relinquish it. Their response was: "Because when all the ice caps melt I'm going there."

[Propagandhim]

Two more things about Kavanaugh that are bugging me:

First, the legal drinking age thing. He says it was legal for seniors to drink since the age was 18 in Maryland at the time. In fact it was raised to 21 when he was still 17. There is NO WAY he doesn't remember that. Imagine a bunch of boozy teenagers on the cusp of buying beer legally, then at the last moment they have to wait three more years. Especially for a teen who would testify to Congress decades later about how deeply he loves beer. That would have been a huge grievance and they would have spent months bitching about it.

Second, saying the four witnesses "contradicted" Ford's testimony, or exonerated him, or however he phrased it. They said they didn't remember a specific party 35 years ago, which is a very different thing. This is already shitty behavior whenever a politician or operative repeats it as a talking point, but he's a judge up for a SCOTUS seat. He's deliberately lying about the probative value of evidence! He's a judge! That's not good!

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I have a wicked sinus infection and my whole day is going to be spent Mad Online.

[close]

Also, this might be a kind of facile perspective on things, but if the Republicans tried to push through a different nominee, then it would look extremely suspect if the Democrats try to block the new one.  Like, picking someone else is just such a no-brainer.  Kavanaugh doesn't even have to admit to the allegations if the Republicans just take the responsibility here.

[agrajag]

Na, this is a full on idpol culture war for them and Kav is their poster boy at the moment. They are all in on this. See: Lindsay Graham.

[Brehvolution]

Gorsuch never had anything like this happen to him during confirmation. Just last year. Maybe the gop should bring better people.

[james]

Someone log me off the internet please I cant do it

 


I havre fucking work deadlines 

[Mandark]

Yeah, a bunch of old rich white guys saw the prospect of an old rich white guy losing out on a promotion based on the testimony of a woman and circled the fucking wagons.