Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 7082026 times)

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Himu

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She announced that like months ago. She's from California and is a prosecutor.



I've never been big on her gun stance but I figured she'd run it back on the national stage. :heh
IYKYK

Tripon

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benjipwns

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When the national stage gets here and Trump is there as her "debate" partner, she'll tone it down some, I'm sure.

Phoenix Dark

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Also a stunning lack of talk about trade and china when the Midwest holds the key to democrats beating Trump. Not immigration. Republicans got destroyed throughout the Midwest during the midterms last year. Since then there has been next to no debate or talk about tariffs and what they're doing to the economy.
010

Himu

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When the national stage gets here and Trump is there as her "debate" partner, she'll tone it down some, I'm sure.

Yeah I figure, but I won't buy it cuz...

A. she's from california

B. she's a prosecutor
IYKYK

benjipwns

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Kamala already got in trouble with Democratic anti-gun groups for once owning a gun for safety purposes, there is plenty of time to let them shift out of the conversation focus with who will be voting. The Republican pro-gun groups will never support the Democratic candidate anyway. You get to start over in the general.

Himu

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Also a stunning lack of talk about trade and china when the Midwest holds the key to democrats beating Trump. Not immigration. Republicans got destroyed throughout the Midwest during the midterms last year. Since then there has been next to no debate or talk about tariffs and what they're doing to the economy.

I was expecting them to bring up the rust belt last night and tonight, and...nothing.

Despite the fact those are the states democrats need. Why is MSNBC not playing to that audience when they readily admitted that's the easiest key to victory for the democrats? If Democrats can re-flip those states, they likely win.

And yet...neither debate really brought them up.
IYKYK

Tripon

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Quote
When asked whether fellow progressive senator and presidential candidate Elizabeth Warren is a threat in the 2020 race, Sen. Bernie Sanders said that she is “a good friend of mine.” Sanders, fresh off the stage from the first 2020 Democratic debates in Miami, also touted the progress of the Democratic field. “I’m very proud that many of the ideas that Democratic candidates are now talking about weren’t talked about three or four years ago," he told the PBS NewsHour’s Daniel Bush.

benjipwns

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The day Bernie suspends his 2020 campaign, the day McConnell dies, and the day Trump loses reelection, are going to be the three greatest days of my life.
fourth place :rejoice

Himu

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Kamala already got in trouble with Democratic anti-gun groups for once owning a gun for safety purposes, there is plenty of time to let them shift out of the conversation focus with who will be voting. The Republican pro-gun groups will never support the Democratic candidate anyway. You get to start over in the general.

Depends on the Democrat. They'd support Lamb.

And yup, the Democrat anti-gun groups bristle at the mere idea of a politician admitting they have or had a gun for safety reasons. Yet those anti-gun groups are not nearly as mobilized and are a big minority. I don't think Kamala has anything to worry about regarding Democrats and guns. She has to sell her platform to Republicans, independents, and moderates.
IYKYK

Mandark

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Despite the fact those are the states democrats need. Why is MSNBC not playing to that audience when they readily admitted that's the easiest key to victory for the democrats? If Democrats can re-flip those states, they likely win.

Whatever conservatives may think, MSNBC's motivated by ratings and ad dollars, not helping Dems.

benjipwns

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They're saving things for once they get rid of the losers guys, that's why they're doing the stupid raise your hand stuff now, and firing random shots to try and get something to happen. There's too many candidates anyway. It's like I said about the climate change debate idea, it just doesn't work in the format and with what the campaigns will want.

This isn't a big stage event yet, especially with so many candidates who will vanish, the targets are and will be Iowa, NH, SC and Super Tuesday states. And Democratic voters in those. And that's it because once those happen, it's too hard to come back against the leader.

Hillary's failure in the Blue Wall wasn't so bad because it happened, it's because it had already happened to her once with Bernie, and the response was to do absolutely nothing to change that while Trump basically lived in those states and Florida. And the polling WAS good for him there in comparison to nationally, especially versus prior elections and with likely voters over registered. That's why it was such a top to bottom failure. The metrics actually were right, but they wanted to turn Texas and Utah blue instead of actually ensuring the Blue Wall was protecting their flank by keeping the score up like the Obama campaigns did.

Himu

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Despite the fact those are the states democrats need. Why is MSNBC not playing to that audience when they readily admitted that's the easiest key to victory for the democrats? If Democrats can re-flip those states, they likely win.

Whatever conservatives may think, MSNBC's motivated by ratings and ad dollars, not helping Dems.

Sure but they lean that way and I figured they'd throw a bone.
IYKYK

Mandark

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To the extent MSNBC cares about libruls, it's about hooking them as viewers more than helping them strategize as a party. Issues like racism, gun control, etc. are more likely to grab people than trade policy.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Even though, canonically, the Civil War was really about tariffs.
[close]

Himu

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To the extent MSNBC cares about libruls, it's about hooking them as viewers more than helping them strategize as a party. Issues like racism, gun control, etc. are more likely to grab people than trade policy.


I see. :ohhh

I’ve long categorized msnbc as the Fox News for Democrats. Am I wrong about that?
IYKYK

Mandark

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What you're getting at overlaps a bit with why I asked about opioid questions in the first debate.

It's kind of striking that there's an issue which objectively has gotten much, much worse over the last several years, and is often cited by the media in explaining the disenchantment of small-town Trump voters (I think some studies showed that local opioid OD stats correlated more with an Obama->Trump swing than economic metrics), but it gets so little political attention. You'd think people would be at least pretending to care as much about it as they did about the deficit circa 2011, but that's not the case.

benjipwns

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One area where MSNBC would be limited is in whatever the DNC's rules stipulated. That often says stuff like total time allowed in first answers and stuff. Total topics covered, etc.

Where MSNBC gets the leeway is in their freedom to direct questions and especially response times granted. For example, they could have totally shut off Harris and made her sit on what she wanted to say to Biden. But they managed to read the situation accurately for all the people they were trying to please and let Harris speak.

Personally, in the last two cycles, I thought Fox was much better at that than MSNBC and CNN, perhaps because they were GOP debates and knew better what those viewers wanted.

Himu

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What you're getting at overlaps a bit with why I asked about opioid questions in the first debate.

It's kind of striking that there's an issue which objectively has gotten much, much worse over the last several years, and is often cited by the media in explaining the disenchantment of small-town Trump voters (I think some studies showed that local opioid OD stats correlated more with an Obama->Trump swing than economic metrics), but it gets so little political attention. You'd think people would be at least pretending to care as much about it as they did about the deficit circa 2011, but that's not the case.

That’s also what gets me.

Issues Americans care about seem swept under the rug. It’s fucking weird.

I seriously want to know: what are you going to do for the people in the Midwest that voted for trump after voting for Obama twice? None of that is coming up.
IYKYK

Himu

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Hillary's failure in the Blue Wall wasn't so bad because it happened, it's because it had already happened to her once with Bernie, and the response was to do absolutely nothing to change that while Trump basically lived in those states and Florida. And the polling WAS good for him there in comparison to nationally, especially versus prior elections and with likely voters over registered. That's why it was such a top to bottom failure. The metrics actually were right, but they wanted to turn Texas and Utah blue instead of actually ensuring the Blue Wall was protecting their flank by keeping the score up like the Obama campaigns did.

Right. They went on the offense rather the defense. It was the hubris of it all. Trying to flip Texas. :heh
IYKYK

Himu

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Mandark were drugs mentioned once in either debate?
IYKYK

benjipwns

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That’s also what gets me.

Issues Americans care about seem swept under the rug. It’s fucking weird.
latest Economist/YouGov poll, most important issue, Democrats:
Health Care - 25%
Environment - 17%
Social Security - 14%
Economy - 10%
Gun Control - 6%
Education - 6%
Immigration - 5%
Abortion - 3%
Gay rights - 3%
Terrorism - 3%
Medicare - 3%
Taxes - 2%
Deficit - 1%
Afghanistan - 1%
Foreign Policy - 1%

Emerson poll, Democrats:
Economy - 29%
Health care - 26%
Social issues - 16%
Environment - 9%
Immigration - 6%
Gun control - 5%
Education - 4%
Impeachment - 2%
Terrorism - 1%
Foreign Policy - 1%
« Last Edit: June 28, 2019, 01:01:38 AM by benjipwns »

Tripon

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Himu

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That’s also what gets me.

Issues Americans care about seem swept under the rug. It’s fucking weird.
latest Economist/YouGov poll, most important issue, Democrats:
Health Care - 25%
Environment - 17%
Social Security - 14%
Economy - 10%
Gun Control - 6%
Education - 6%
Immigration - 5%
Abortion - 3%
Gay rights - 3%
Terrorism - 3%
Medicare - 3%
Taxes - 2%
Deficit - 1%
Afghanistan - 1%
Foreign Policy - 1%

What about Americans as a whole? Democrats have to have more than democrats to turn up for them in 2020.
IYKYK

Himu

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opioids specifically were asked last night

Have a clip? I don’t remember.
IYKYK

Mandark

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I’ve long categorized msnbc as the Fox News for Democrats. Am I wrong about that?

I don't watch either so I can't really speak to the product, but from the corporate side MSNBC were very reluctant to be seen as a liberal news channel and sort of stumbled backwards into it, while Roger Ailes was always trying to build a rightwing message machine.

Also my beef with Fox News goes beyond strictly party politics. Over the years they've done a lot to make Americans, especially older ones who tend to be isolated, terrified of the world around them, sort of like local news that's 90% crime coverage but with a more explicitly racist/xenophobic agenda. Maddow's apparently been pushing the Russia stuff really hard but I'm skeptical it's quite as harmful in that way.

benjipwns

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What about Americans as a whole? Democrats have to have more than democrats to turn up for them in 2020.
Not in the primaries. And Republicans will skew the numbers too much in favor of evil.

same polls, so-called independents
Economist/YouGov poll:
Health Care - 17%
Social Security - 16%
Immigration - 15%
Economy - 12%
Environment - 11%
Education - 6%
Terrorism - 5%
Gun Control - 4%
Abortion - 3%
Medicare - 3%
Taxes - 3%
Deficit - 2%
Gay rights - 1%
Afghanistan - 1%
Foreign Policy - 1%

Emerson poll:
Economy - 32%
Health care - 18%
Social issues - 11%
Environment - 9%
Immigration - 9%
Gun control - 9%
Education - 7%
Terrorism - 2%
Foreign Policy - 2%
Impeachment - 1%
[close]

Himu

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My mom is an ardent MSNBC watcher and when I visit she’s always watching it the way a Fox News person would. She even listens to it in her car via Sirius.

And if there’s anything I can tell you msnbc has contributed to it’s the ardent partisan politics. I won’t call MSNBC as bad as Fox but I truly think they’ve helped contribute in poisoning the water going by my mom.
IYKYK

Himu

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What about Americans as a whole? Democrats have to have more than democrats to turn up for them in 2020.
Not in the primaries. And Republicans will skew the numbers too much in favor of evil.

same polls, so-called independents
Economist/YouGov poll:
Health Care - 17%
Social Security - 16%
Immigration - 15%
Economy - 12%
Environment - 11%
Education - 6%
Terrorism - 5%
Gun Control - 4%
Abortion - 3%
Medicare - 3%
Taxes - 3%
Deficit - 2%
Gay rights - 1%
Afghanistan - 1%
Foreign Policy - 1%

Emerson poll:
Economy - 32%
Health care - 18%
Social issues - 11%
Environment - 9%
Immigration - 9%
Gun control - 9%
Education - 7%
Terrorism - 2%
Foreign Policy - 2%
Impeachment - 1%
[close]

Interesting.

All three polls rate foreign policy at or near the bottom.
IYKYK

benjipwns

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biggest surprise tonight was that everyone spoke English


benjipwns

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lol



Himu

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Have a clip? I don’t remember.
I don't remember either, someone just said that they should regulate the companies. No mention of criminal liability. Pharmaceutical companies spend more money lobbying Washington than almost any other industry so that might be a reason. I am also not surprised that price gouging in the pharmaceutical industry in particular was not a sanctioned debate question by MSNBC because, as you know, finance owns the media and therefore finance filters the questions.

Yeah Bernie was jusssst about to mention pharmaceuticals charging $1000 for $50 medicine and he didn’t go that far.
IYKYK

benjipwns

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opioids specifically were asked last night

Have a clip? I don’t remember.

Kara

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Really appreciate Glen using his Konex Curse powers on Beto O'Dork and Autobus Biden. :american

Himu

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Oh riiight. They mentioned life saving medicine access iirc 

But that’s different than what Mandark and I were talking about: the overdose epidemic.
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benjipwns

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https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/trolls-target-online-polls-following-first-democratic-presidential-debate-n1023406
Quote
Users from pro-Trump communities on 4chan and Reddit implored fellow members to vote for lower-polling candidates in online polls, specifically Tulsi Gabbard and Bill de Blasio, in the hours after Wednesday’s Democratic debate — a sign that digital manipulation efforts related to U.S. politics and elections remain very much alive.

Users on 4chan’s anonymous far-right /pol/message board repeatedly posted links to polls across the web, encouraging one another to “blow the polls out” for Gabbard, the congresswoman from Hawaii who has developed a substantial support base among many of its users.

The posts pointed users toward polls on national news websites like the Drudge Report, The Washington Examiner, and Heavy.com, but also polls from local news providers like NJ.com, which posts from several newspapers in the state.

“GIVE HER YOUR POWER,” read one 4chan post from 1 a.m. Thursday, pointing to a screenshot of the still-active Drudge poll showing Gabbard leading.

The efforts from 4chan’s /pol/ board and Reddit’s pro-Trump subreddit mirror the notorious troll communities’ strategy from 2016, when they bombarded polls in an effort to drive more visibility and confidence to their candidate of choice, and hoped news websites and candidates lent credibility to the results later on.

Traditional polls, such as those run by researchers, polling companies and universities are not susceptible to such manipulations.

...

The results from the poll on the Drudge Report, where Gabbard netted almost 40 percent of the vote, despite previously polling at less than 2 percent in national polls, created coverage in itself. The politics blog The Hill and The Daily Mail wrote about Gabbard’s performance in the poll, with The Daily Mail calling Gabbard the “shock winner” in the “first poll” after the debate. As more mainstream outlets pick up the methodologically questionable polls, the likelihood that they will be covered by more prominent news media and political figures increases.

With no publicly available data set, it’s not possible to know just how heavily potential manipulation factored into the results.

...

Among disinformation experts, swarming a community or poll to bombard it with hypertargeted political messaging is called “brigading.” The practice is banned on sites like Reddit in order to prohibit fans of one politician or ideology from taking control of broader communities focused on politics and news and not one specific candidate.

Nina Jankowicz, author of the upcoming book “How to Lose the Information War” and a global fellow studying disinformation at the Wilson Center, a politics-focused think tank, called poll brigading a “basically less sophisticated form of astroturfing,” or simulating widespread support through artificial means.

She said news organizations need to be particularly careful not to credulously repeat unscientific poll results, as these sorts of targeted influence campaigns are now common.

“We should already be putting less stock in polls that are completely devoid of context, but especially examples like these which can be easily manipulated by bad actors,” Jankowicz said. “Given that we know this practice is going on, newspapers and other organizations running unscientific polls should introduce measures to make it more difficult to brigade results, such as sending unique links to individual emails.”

...

Users on Reddit’s r/The_Donald, the site’s largest pro-Trump community, encouraged one another to vote for de Blasio, the mayor of New York, in Wednesday night’s Drudge Report poll and “LOL as these [expletive] run farther to the left.”

A 2014 Honolulu Civil Beat columnist noted Gabbard’s support over the years has included potentially inauthentic online users who aggressively attack critics and journalists. A recent NBC News analysis found Gabbard has received a disproportionate share of favorable coverage from Kremlin-linked media outlets.

While foreign influence has been a concern of politicians focused on election integrity, Jankowicz worried that this kind of targeted domestic trolling can pose an even larger disinformation threat.

“It’s absolutely important to report on the way domestic actors are influencing discourse,” Jankowicz said. “We are spending too much time worrying about foreign actors while acting completely ignorant of the threats in our own backyard.”
not the online post debate polls :brazilcry

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2019/06/tulsi-gabbard-debate-alt-right/
Quote
High-profile right-wing and alt-right internet trolls like Jack Posobiec, fellow Pizzagater Mike Cernovich, and Infowars‘ Paul Joseph Watson praised Gabbard on Twitter for her performance alongside nine other candidates on the Miami stage.

Cernovich called Gabbard the “breakthrough star of the night,” while Posobiec retweeted a post calling for “a movement to push Trump to hire Tulsi Gabbard as Secretary of State.” (Documents leaked this week show that Gabbard, who served in Iraq, was considered by the Trump transition as a possible Secretary of Veterans Affairs.)

A flash poll posted by the right-leaning Drudge Report marked Gabbard as the winner. While such surveys are statistically meaningless, the morning after the debate Watson tweeted, referencing the poll: “Leftists are FURIOUS Tulsi Gabbard won the debate. She was the only authentic person on that stage. What does that tell you? #Drudge”.

Users on the notoriously racist and sexist message boards 8chan and 4chan, which both serve as internet hubs for far-right trolls, voiced their support for Gabbard on debate night. In 8chan’s overall discussion thread for the event, Gabbard was mentioned far more than any other candidate. Users on 4chan also made several discussion threads dedicated to Gabbard’s night at the debate, affectionately referring to her as “mommy.”
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
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It's unlike anything we've done, and we have seed funding to get started, but we're looking to raise $500,000 from readers by July when we'll be making key budgeting decisions—and the more resources we have by then, the deeper we can dig. If our plan sounds good to you, please help kickstart it with a tax-deductible donation today.

Thanks for reading—whether or not you can pitch in today, or ever, I'm glad you're with us.

Signed by Clara Jeffery
Clara Jeffery, Editor-in-Chief
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benjipwns

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they should anonymously poll the campaigns if they think their candidate can win

Tripon

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Did Kamala actually talk about anything related to her platform tonight besides the $500 tax credit and gun buybacks?

She came out for Medicare for All.

agrajag

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Did Kamala actually talk about anything related to her platform tonight besides the $500 tax credit and gun buybacks?

m4a, ban private insurers

Himu

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Has McAfee’s twitter been turned into a parody account now?
IYKYK

Kara

  • It was all going to be very admirable and noble and it would show us - philosophically - what it means to be human.
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Even as the hopepunk guy, my unfortunate read on the opioid thing is that it's predominantly an ill of the internal periphery and therefore undeserving of attention or assistance. The consistent and craven indifference to death in the external periphery turned inward.

The moderators could ask about it more, to be certain, but these candidates certainly haven't shown any fear of the on-topic police. And it's not exactly hard to link that crisis to healthcare inequality, the economy, the degree to which power is unaccountable to law or society, hell, even the president being bad at his job. (Imagine if you will a Trump administration throwing the resources it is currently throwing at immigrants and asylum seekers at the opioid epidemic.) If that feckless dork Andrew Yang can make everything about universal basic income then you can make those connections if you want to.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The worker has no country, they do not take part in the life of the nation, have no share in its material and spiritual wealth, et cetera et cetera.
[close]

benjipwns

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Has McAfee’s twitter been turned into a parody account now?
Breh, John McAfee himself has been a parody account for decades.

He's technically a fugitive from multiple nations. He basically owns the world's laziest drug and piracy outfit.

Tripon

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Himu

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Has McAfee’s twitter been turned into a parody account now?
Breh, John McAfee himself has been a parody account for decades.

He's technically a fugitive from multiple nations. He basically owns the world's laziest drug and piracy outfit.

I thought he was the guy that owned the anti-virus  program or am I thinking of someone else?
IYKYK

benjipwns

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I thought he was the guy that owned the anti-virus  program or am I thinking of someone else?
He did, but sold his stake way back in 1996. He was nuts back then except he was in the country and invested in computer startups. Now he's deported, fled a murder scene in Belize, technically can't come back to the U.S. and vastly poorer from blowing all his cash on drugs and awful crypto startups. That's why he's the ideal Libertarian nominee imo after the fiasco that was the Gary Johnson campaigns and getting major ballot access in all 50 states.

But he and his wife have the best story. She was a prostitute he solicited, she tried to steal from him, they've been together ever since. :heart

benjipwns

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benjipwns

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(Image removed from quote.)
this is why the RADICAL ISLAMIC terrorists hate us

Momo

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agrajag

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I think Bill De Blasio may be more black than Corey Booker.

benjipwns

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I just love that we have both Robert Francis (Beto) O'Rourke and Warren Wilhelm Jr. (Bill de Blasio) out there fighting for the right to give yourself your own nickname, not actually change your name in anyway and still demand everyone use it as if it's your real name.

And running for the right to challenge the most name obsessed man in human history.

benjipwns

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convince me a de Blasio/O'Rourke ticket wouldn't lose 50 states :hmph

team filler

  • filler
  • filler
where brandnew?
*****

benjipwns

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Trent Dole

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https://twitter.com/ErinChack/status/1144431515956371457
convince me a de Blasio/O'Rourke ticket wouldn't lose 50 states :hmph
I'm told during his election Nixon swept all of the states except Massachusetts, and in response he moved some military bases from there southward. So they'd carry MA maybe? :-*
Hi

bluemax

  • Senior Member
I thought he was the guy that owned the anti-virus  program or am I thinking of someone else?
He did, but sold his stake way back in 1996. He was nuts back then except he was in the country and invested in computer startups. Now he's deported, fled a murder scene in Belize, technically can't come back to the U.S. and vastly poorer from blowing all his cash on drugs and awful crypto startups. That's why he's the ideal Libertarian nominee imo after the fiasco that was the Gary Johnson campaigns and getting major ballot access in all 50 states.

But he and his wife have the best story. She was a prostitute he solicited, she tried to steal from him, they've been together ever since. :heart

Also raped and threatened to kill a scientist in his employ after she tried to run away from his wacko fake science company. And probably like 500 other atrocities.
NO

benjipwns

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Part of that may be why he only gets a 87% benji purity test rating. :doge

jakefromstatefarm

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Even as the hopepunk guy, my unfortunate read on the opioid thing is that it's predominantly an ill of the internal periphery and therefore undeserving of attention or assistance. The consistent and craven indifference to death in the external periphery turned inward.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The worker has no country, they do not take part in the life of the nation, have no share in its material and spiritual wealth, et cetera et cetera.
[close]

Mandark

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I just love that we have both Robert Francis (Beto) O'Rourke and Warren Wilhelm Jr. (Bill de Blasio) out there fighting for the right to give yourself your own nickname, not actually change your name in anyway and still demand everyone use it as if it's your real name.

shitty post

benjipwns

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not surprised cowardly "Mandark" would say that

benjipwns

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m4a, ban private insurers
https://twitter.com/VaughnHillyard/status/1144463380268216322

UPDATE: June 28 — Kamala Harris claimed after Thursday’s debate that she had misinterpreted a question about eliminating private health insurance in favor of a government-run health insurance plan. Instead of indicating her support for eliminating private insurance in general, Harris told a reporter she favored enrolling in a government-run health care plan herself.

...

But at another CNN town hall in April, Harris maintained that under Sanders’ bill, private insurance companies would actually still be able to offer some policies.

“There would still be access to supplemental insurance,” Harris said.

Harris attempted to clear up the matter during another interview in May with CNN’s Jake Tapper, maintaining that she didn’t intend to call for abolishing all insurance companies in January, even as she reaffirmed her support for Sanders’ Medicare for All proposal.

“What I meant is, let’s get rid of the bureaucracy,” Harris said of the January town hall. When Tapper noted Sanders’ proposal would eliminate private health insurance, Harris again maintained: “No, no, no, no, it does not get rid of insurance. It does not get rid of insurance.”

...

n reality, Sanders’ proposal would prohibit the sale of private insurance that is “duplicative” of what the government plan would offer