Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5432645 times)

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Freyj

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6060 on: May 21, 2017, 01:45:47 AM »
I mean a sizeable portion of left leaning people only tolerate CNN / MSNBC at best. Fox has a much stronger grasp on its viewerbase overall.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6061 on: May 21, 2017, 01:52:54 AM »
Every site ET, every site? Pure tabloid? Sounding like a typical right-wing partisan ET. Trying to create a false equivalence where one doesn't exist.

Complete with "polls aren't to be trusted"......."Here look at this poll I just found" argument.

But really, MSM is such a relative term that it is pretty hard to discern too much from polls like that. Though it does sort of fall into line with what I just posted in that the right seems to not trust anything but their shit-tier echo chamber.

No, real right leaning trust a Breitbart and Fox News. You can't argue they believe InfoWars too much and then claim wide-reaching distrust is right wing.

It's the forgotten folks and the young who have ditched news.

Heck, why the hell are Colbert and the Daily Show on there? Those are comedy shows. That they are included is almost a cipher to how the whole thing is a mess.

Raist

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6062 on: May 21, 2017, 02:29:25 AM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/20/trump-mocked-obama-for-bowing-to-a-saudi-king-and-then-he/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.c1e73a7ac1d8

Perfect case and point to what I just said lol.

Breit-Bart, Fox, Drudge(and I suspect there will be no mention of this Monday on Talk radio) all conveniently ignoring what was a scandal for years when Obama did it.  Just like the Comey firing flip-flop the other week.

To be fair, one is bowing to salute him the other is bowing to get his bling bling.

Not that it makes a difference in the context of being all friendly with these pieces of shit anyway.

Let's Cyber

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6063 on: May 21, 2017, 02:35:05 AM »
Honestly nowadays I prefer the dryness of PBS (helps that I don't have cable :doge) and NPR. I also use CBC and BBC a lot online, especially for international news. 

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6064 on: May 21, 2017, 02:44:02 AM »

Q: Do you think youth trust WSJ after the pewdiepie thing? I doubt it.


Lmfao

Freyj

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6065 on: May 21, 2017, 02:46:41 AM »
Heck, why the hell are Colbert and the Daily Show on there? Those are comedy shows. That they are included is almost a cipher to how the whole thing is a mess.

Really? I consumed an awful lot of news via the Daily Show circa the Bush elections in college.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6066 on: May 21, 2017, 03:34:58 AM »
Heck, why the hell are Colbert and the Daily Show on there? Those are comedy shows. That they are included is almost a cipher to how the whole thing is a mess.

Really? I consumed an awful lot of news via the Daily Show circa the Bush elections in college.

 :neogaf

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6067 on: May 21, 2017, 06:05:37 AM »
I actually like Buzzfeed, or at least some of their writers.

in other news, the_donald is back up and has somehow ascended to a new level of shittiness.
QED

Let's Cyber

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6068 on: May 21, 2017, 06:27:57 AM »
Really? I consumed an awful lot of news via the Daily Show circa the Bush elections in college.

 :neogaf
From 2007, so near the end of the Bush era.

http://www.people-press.org/2007/04/15/public-knowledge-of-current-affairs-little-changed-by-news-and-information-revolutions/

Look who's at the top for largest % of highly informed. And shocker, Fox News viewers are near the bottom. 

 :shaq
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 07:09:04 AM by Let's Cyber »

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6069 on: May 21, 2017, 07:12:50 AM »
It's interesting that the Russian conspiracy theorists aren't particularly leftist. Mensch was a conservative MP in the UK, Garland seems centrist. And the Russia thing is used pretty often against the left wing by establishment dems (why are you yelling about universal care? Don't you know Russia is more important?). The dynamic isn't really comparable to the right-wing media, which is all about selling and confirming core conservative orthodoxy to those already susceptible to it.

Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6070 on: May 21, 2017, 08:29:55 AM »
Guys, seriously. Just stop engaging him. Maybe eventually he'll realize he's the equivalent of a feces covered unwanted party guest and wander off to troll WoW fans about how superior Guild Wars 2 is again.
yar

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6071 on: May 21, 2017, 08:48:00 AM »
besides accuracy issues, the other problem with some of the Russiasphere stuff is that paranoia about "foreign influence" is ultimately a right-wing frame even if it happens to work for liberal parties in particular instances.
QED

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6072 on: May 21, 2017, 01:16:10 PM »
It's interesting that the Russian conspiracy theorists aren't particularly leftist. Mensch was a conservative MP in the UK, Garland seems centrist. And the Russia thing is used pretty often against the left wing by establishment dems (why are you yelling about universal care? Don't you know Russia is more important?). The dynamic isn't really comparable to the right-wing media, which is all about selling and confirming core conservative orthodoxy to those already susceptible to it.

Just because Mensch took it to a new level of loony doesn't discount that the conspiracy comes from the Dem party first and gets repeated in left wing news.

Though how much right wing news do people here actually see? I use facebook and just being alive for left wing news, and twitter for right wing news. My twitter feed was full of complaints about Trump's mini-bow to Saudi. People here think the right were silent on it, but bitching about it was all over twitter.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6073 on: May 21, 2017, 01:23:56 PM »
Really? I consumed an awful lot of news via the Daily Show circa the Bush elections in college.

 :neogaf
From 2007, so near the end of the Bush era.
(Image removed from quote.)
http://www.people-press.org/2007/04/15/public-knowledge-of-current-affairs-little-changed-by-news-and-information-revolutions/

Look who's at the top for largest % of highly informed. And shocker, Fox News viewers are near the bottom. 

 :shaq

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/jun/20/jon-stewart/jon-stewart-says-those-who-watch-fox-news-are-most/

To Jon's credit, he corrected this on air.

The problem with TDS at that time is that it saw what it thought was a problem, but its approach in attacking the problem and its solution ended up worse than what was before. I say this as somoene who watched a lot of Daily Show at that time, too.

Jon had a problem with talking heads barking back and forth, a noisier, more entertainment driven form of ye olde Buckley debates. Now we have actual party reps just stating party lines without interaction or real debate. Echo chambers are huge and the very mode of business for news. In general, he had issues with the way major news was operating, but he only showed those news platforms that you could get higher ratings by ditching fairness and becoming a one-sided entertainment show.

People got used to news via TDS, which made them expect news as entertainment. This has been an awful turn, imo.

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6074 on: May 21, 2017, 01:29:08 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/20/the-seth-rich-conspiracy-shows-how-fake-news-still-works/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8c3d4bdb2b24

never seen a rebuttal to the obvious point that Wikileaks didn't uncover any bombshells that would lead to someone getting killed (after the leaks had already happened). Which is why I continue to believe the driving force for this=people who think Pizzagate is real.
010

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6075 on: May 21, 2017, 01:37:10 PM »
Quote from: etiolate
Heck, why the hell are Colbert and the Daily Show on there? Those are comedy shows. That they are included is almost a cipher to how the whole thing is a mess.

Like I said, if they just stuck to credible news, the right-wing would basically only have one outlet on the chart. And it's not even a highly popular one to them except for the shitty op-ed section.

And really what more does it say when two comedy shows are more credible and responsible with their news coverage then all but maybe one fully trusted right-wing source?

But maybe in another decade some new scandal can hit Fox and for a brief 24 hours or so we can once again speculate if Murdoch and company will actually go through with turning Fox into an actual news organization?

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6076 on: May 21, 2017, 01:55:37 PM »
It's interesting that the Russian conspiracy theorists aren't particularly leftist. Mensch was a conservative MP in the UK, Garland seems centrist. And the Russia thing is used pretty often against the left wing by establishment dems (why are you yelling about universal care? Don't you know Russia is more important?). The dynamic isn't really comparable to the right-wing media, which is all about selling and confirming core conservative orthodoxy to those already susceptible to it.

I dunno, plenty of "911 is an inside job" leftists in Europe during the Bush years. It's really proportionate to how bad / powerless the "Left" is feeling at that point. Some of the logorrhea attached to Marxism lends itself nicely to conspiracy talk too. It died off quickly after W. left office.
At the risk of sounding like a FSB asset, the whole "Russiagate" thing is different in that I feel it's taking its roots in views that are very much the institutional, consensual within the elite, viewpoint of painting Russia as a dangerous rival or antagonist, maybe unfairly (or to a caricatural extent).

I'd be wary linking some political wings with a propension for believing conspiracies. As always, it's also a matter of what you classify as a "conspiracy" or more kindly as a "misconception" or a "common myth".
ὕβρις

Phoenix Dark

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etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6078 on: May 21, 2017, 02:23:49 PM »
fuckin Saudi

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6079 on: May 21, 2017, 03:03:45 PM »
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/20/the-seth-rich-conspiracy-shows-how-fake-news-still-works/?tid=pm_politics_pop&utm_term=.8c3d4bdb2b24

never seen a rebuttal to the obvious point that Wikileaks didn't uncover any bombshells that would lead to someone getting killed (after the leaks had already happened). Which is why I continue to believe the driving force for this=people who think Pizzagate is real.

Before anyone freaks out again, I only feel it possible that Seth Rich is the leak and that's mostly to do with Assange spending money and attention on it and one anon source.It's also because wiki's other leaks were from people inside.

But I can break down the misleading techniques in this article.

Quote
Within 24 hours, reporters at NBC News, CNN and The Washington Post had debunked the story.

Quote
First, Rich's family quickly corrected the idea that Wheeler was on their payroll; he was hired by Ed Butowsky, a Texas businessman who had grown interested in the case.


Wheeler isn't on their payroll, but he is working for the family. Butowsky is paying. The family can't afford a PI. They probably also can't likely afford a PR lawyer who has been making their statements for them, so that guy is probably being paid by someone else. He's also not your regular family lawyer, but a political worker for the progressives.  Wheeler was shown as discredited, but nobody debunked the story or proved the story true. All you have is Fox News anon source vs CNN's anon source.

These lack of little details actually make it easier for WaPo to declare WaPo debunked the story, but that's not what they did. The only thing established is that Wheeler is unreliable, and changed his story back and forth. The anon sources aren't reported by Wheeler or just Wheeler. They come from Fox News and CNN.

The piece then dismisses the wikileaks as nothing, which makes it a green shinobi special.

Quote
In fact, Wasserman Schultz's mismanagement of the DNC, and personal bias toward Hillary Clinton, had been known, and a sore spot for supporters of Sanders, long before the hack. Wasserman Schultz scheduled debates late in the process, and had to be pushed by the Sanders campaign to allow a debate before the New York primary. Clinton, who'd narrowly lost the 2008 primary, came into 2016 with the vast majority of endorsements from party leaders — not actually a factor under the DNC's control. What the emails found was that in May, after Sanders had no serious chance at the nomination,

So the question is what is it then? If DWS was heavily biased, and the leaks show them expressing that bias and working within that bias, why do we assume May is the only point where this was happening? "Sure, the head of DNC wanted to work against Sanders, but the leaks only show May! Where we assure you the process was over!" The writer doesn't truly believe their own argument on a level that matters. To admit that the DNC and DWS had intent against Sanders is damage enough. There is never a smoking gun like that in most occurrences, because nobody is that stupid at high levels. However, the leaks showed Sanders walking into a system ready to work against him.

So asking for a bombshell is raising the bar of what is required in order to dismiss what is revealed when what is revealed is damaging enough on its own.

But for me, this is the sneaky part that people here have been doing as well:

Quote
The absolute faith that there will one day be proof of this conspiracy theory — proof that Democrats carried out a political murder to punish a leak that had already happened — is impervious to reality.

That is the actual conspiracy, that the Dems has Rich killed, and that conspiracy goes further into other deaths. However, Rich being the leak, which is what all of the recent news articles have been about, is not conspiracy. It's a possibility that is hinted to by some, but we have no proof. We also have no proof where the leak came from. It's an unsolved mystery, not a conspiracy. But if you paint the two together, you can associate the valid question with the grand conspiracy. That's manipulation.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6080 on: May 21, 2017, 03:08:15 PM »
lol

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6081 on: May 21, 2017, 03:09:48 PM »
lol

Hey, remember when I said Jon Stewart's approach to comedy news would be damaging and you said it was a bunch of nothing, and here we are, years later with entertainment news being the norm thanks to that?

Care to comment?

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6082 on: May 21, 2017, 03:16:27 PM »
I've always thought the main source of media bias is in what they choose to cover and to what extent more so in how they choose to cover it (other than the time/detail devoted to it) and this becomes stark during elections because not only do you have the various media outlets but you also have the campaigns with their own narratives. Sure all have their own biases either ideologically or politically but that's far easier to control for. How many times have you read stories where all the pertinent information is "below the fold" or worse? How many times does a story leave you with all kinds of practical questions that it ignored to include more reaction quotes or "win/loss" and OPTICS discussion? Surely, it can't be only me.

It was kinda funny during the post-election shellshock period how many people were responding to their "bubble" being popped by saying "clearly I needed to have consumed more of the same media!" As if they had missed a signal among the noise that would have prepped them for a Trump victory. I assume most of them were back to their old habits in no time.

Never did they consider something truly revolutionary like limiting their media intake to only that approved by Bob Avakian and Yum! Brands.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6083 on: May 21, 2017, 03:22:50 PM »
No one is taking ownership of the supposed FBI source ET. Local Fox points to Wheeler, Wheeler now points to Fox.

All in the face of several corroborating sources, from several independently operating organizations, that punch a hole through the heart of that elusive source you keep clinging too. Since the FBI has never had in its possession the laptop that the Wheeler(or not Wheeler) source hinges on. They aren't even involved in the investigation.

Just drop the nonsense....Though I can't help but point out you falling into the same trap I keep seeing on all the conspiracy blogs, namely simultaneously chastising the DNC for enormous incompetences, while the entire conspiracy is hinged on the DNC being competent criminal masterminds....As PD points out, all to cover up a bunch of emails that are nowhere near this consequential.

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6084 on: May 21, 2017, 03:25:52 PM »
Fox News took ownership of the federal investigator source. It's in the article. Wheeler is a mess, but perhaps irrelevant.

Quote
All in the face of several corroborating sources, from several independently operating organizations, that punch a hole through the heart of that elusive source you keep clinging too.

What are you talking about?


Again, this is about Rich possibly being the DNC leak. That's not a shocking idea.

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6085 on: May 21, 2017, 03:28:40 PM »
Hey, remember when I said Jon Stewart's approach to comedy news would be damaging and you said it was a bunch of nothing, and here we are, years later with entertainment news being the norm thanks to that?

Care to comment?


Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6086 on: May 21, 2017, 03:37:32 PM »
Fox News took ownership of the federal investigator source. It's in the article. Wheeler is a mess, but perhaps irrelevant.

Quote
All in the face of several corroborating sources, from several independently operating organizations, that punch a hole through the heart of that elusive source you keep clinging too.

What are you talking about?


Again, this is about Rich possibly being the DNC leak. That's not a shocking idea.
Might want to check back in with that story ET:

Quote
WASHINGTON - EDITOR'S NOTE (5/17/17): We want to update you on a story you first saw on FOX 5 DC. We want to make an important clarification on claims that were made by Rod Wheeler, the private investigator hired by Seth Rich's family, whose services are being paid for by a third party.

What he told FOX 5 DC on camera Monday regarding Seth Rich's murder investigation is in clear contrast to what he has said over the last 48 hours. Rod Wheeler has since backtracked.

In an interview Monday, Wheeler told FOX 5 DC he had sources at the FBI confirming there was evidence of communication between Seth Rich and WikiLeaks. This is the verbatim of that exchange:

 FOX 5 DC: “You have sources at the FBI saying that there is information...”

WHEELER: "For sure..."

FOX 5 DC: “...that could link Seth Rich to WikiLeaks?"

WHEELER: "Absolutely. Yeah. That's confirmed."

In the past 48 hours, Rod Wheeler has told other media outlets he did not get his information from FBI sources, contradicting what he told us on Monday.

Since Rod Wheeler backtracked Tuesday, FOX 5 DC attempted incessantly to communicate with him, but he didn't return calls or emails.

On Wednesday, just before our newscast, Wheeler responded to our requests via a telephone conversation, where he now backtracks his position and Wheeler characterizes his on-the-record and on-camera statements as "miscommunication."

http://www.fox5dc.com/news/local-news/254852337-story

Like I said, time to move on. You bought stock into the new Pizzagate. Get out now and invest wiser in the future.
« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 03:53:29 PM by Nola »

etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6087 on: May 21, 2017, 03:58:10 PM »
Yes, Wheeler is unreliable. Wheeler isn't the Fed source.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6088 on: May 21, 2017, 04:31:14 PM »
Yes, Wheeler is unreliable. Wheeler isn't the Fed source.
The supposed Fed source, which is getting bounced back and forth from Wheeler as his own source, and then not as his own source, makes assertions that are just not in line with what Newsweek and NBC have independently corroborated about the investigation. Which is that the FBI does not have the laptop, never had the laptop, and is not even investigating the case right now.

Even if the source exists, it is being discredited by independent corroborating sources. But even its existence is questionable right now with how Wheeler and cable FoxNews continues to handle it.







benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6089 on: May 21, 2017, 04:35:57 PM »


when did they start making these, did gillespie get fired or something?

"the john oliver you got off craigslist" :lol

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Quote
daxdigitalus5 days ago
Funny video. I used to be a libertarian, and then Friedman died and libertarians subsequently forgot that open borders + welfare state = hell on earth.

[close]

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6090 on: May 21, 2017, 05:08:14 PM »
Yes, Wheeler is unreliable. Wheeler isn't the Fed source.

I guess you're purposely ignoring the CNN report I posted yesterday that the FBI does not have the laptop huh

Quote
A FoxNews.com story on the case also cited a "federal source" who said the FBI had conducted a forensic analysis of Rich's computer and discovered thousands of emails with Wikileaks. But a law enforcement official told CNN that the FBI never had possession of Rich's laptop and did not conduct a forensic analysis of its contents.

Neither Fox News nor WTTG-TV have issued corrections to their reports.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/17/media/seth-rich-family-apology-retraction-fox-news-wttg/index.html
010

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6091 on: May 21, 2017, 05:13:01 PM »
Yes, Wheeler is unreliable. Wheeler isn't the Fed source.

I guess you're purposely ignoring the CNN report I posted yesterday that the FBI does not have the laptop huh

Quote
A FoxNews.com story on the case also cited a "federal source" who said the FBI had conducted a forensic analysis of Rich's computer and discovered thousands of emails with Wikileaks. But a law enforcement official told CNN that the FBI never had possession of Rich's laptop and did not conduct a forensic analysis of its contents.

Neither Fox News nor WTTG-TV have issued corrections to their reports.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/05/17/media/seth-rich-family-apology-retraction-fox-news-wttg/index.html

...And Newsweek has looked into it, and NBC.


Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6093 on: May 21, 2017, 05:34:55 PM »
Prediction: a month from now he'll bring this conspiracy up again, citing Fox's "federal source" as if it wasn't debunked.

Why die on this hill? You said yourself you don't believe it, yet you keep "asking questions" and acting like you do, despite contrary evidence...
010


Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6095 on: May 21, 2017, 05:47:13 PM »
So the DNC hired a hitman to take a guy out for revealing to the world that Donna Brazile gave Hillary Clinton a debate question?

And Jon Stewart invented satire. Ruined American news consumption with it. Do the research!

We've all learned a lot of valuable truths today, that the MSM won't tell you.

« Last Edit: May 21, 2017, 05:52:37 PM by Nola »

Madrun Badrun

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6096 on: May 21, 2017, 05:56:17 PM »
So the DNC hired a hitman to take a guy out for revealing to the world that Donna Brazile gave Hillary Clinton a debate question?

And Jon Stewart invented satire. Ruined American news consumption with it. Do the research!

We've all learned a lot of valuable truths today, that the MSM won't tell you.



We fought his concession and ended up taking the bigger L.   Shame on us. 

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6097 on: May 21, 2017, 06:21:50 PM »
He has to enter a code every 24 hours or the Hillary e-mail ordering Benghazi is released.

Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6098 on: May 21, 2017, 06:32:18 PM »
Guys. We could keep discrediting everything etoilet says, or we could post this gif everytime he posts.



This is more fun, btw.
yar

curly

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6099 on: May 21, 2017, 06:33:55 PM »
It's interesting that the Russian conspiracy theorists aren't particularly leftist. Mensch was a conservative MP in the UK, Garland seems centrist. And the Russia thing is used pretty often against the left wing by establishment dems (why are you yelling about universal care? Don't you know Russia is more important?). The dynamic isn't really comparable to the right-wing media, which is all about selling and confirming core conservative orthodoxy to those already susceptible to it.

I dunno, plenty of "911 is an inside job" leftists in Europe during the Bush years. It's really proportionate to how bad / powerless the "Left" is feeling at that point. Some of the logorrhea attached to Marxism lends itself nicely to conspiracy talk too. It died off quickly after W. left office.
At the risk of sounding like a FSB asset, the whole "Russiagate" thing is different in that I feel it's taking its roots in views that are very much the institutional, consensual within the elite, viewpoint of painting Russia as a dangerous rival or antagonist, maybe unfairly (or to a caricatural extent).

I'd be wary linking some political wings with a propension for believing conspiracies. As always, it's also a matter of what you classify as a "conspiracy" or more kindly as a "misconception" or a "common myth".

I wouldn't dispute that the left has plenty of its own conspiracy theories; the Russia one in particular though specifically appeals mainly to moderates/those who want an "apolitical" case against Trump. 

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6100 on: May 21, 2017, 08:21:43 PM »
The left has been griping about the Russia stuff being too prominent in the "resistance" since it started. Sam Kriss wrote this article back in December where he tried to introduce the label "alt-center" for people like game theory guy (contains a bonus dig at John Nash), didn't really catch on though.
QED

recursivelyenumerable

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6101 on: May 21, 2017, 08:23:08 PM »
how the heck is Anthony Weiner still alive?

this is a mystery all by itself.
QED

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6102 on: May 21, 2017, 10:26:59 PM »
If Democrats had Seth Rich murdered for something so trivial, how the heck is Anthony Weiner still alive?

He must lay the pipe real good.  :noah
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Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6103 on: May 22, 2017, 02:14:08 AM »
If Democrats had Seth Rich murdered for something so trivial, how the heck is Anthony Weiner still alive?

He must lay the pipe real good.  :noah
An aptly named fellow. :teehee
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6104 on: May 22, 2017, 03:31:53 AM »
lol i don't know how u guys are going to hold all ur LLLLLLLLs now:

Quote
"We have this very strange story now of this young man who worked for the Democratic National Committee, who apparently was assassinated at 4 in the morning, having given WikiLeaks something like 53,000 emails and 17,000 attachments,” Gingrich said.

“Nobody’s investigating that, and what does that tell you about what’s going on? Because it turns out, it wasn’t the Russians. It was this young guy who, I suspect, was disgusted by the corruption of the Democratic National Committee. He’s been killed, and apparently nothing serious has been done to investigative his murder. So I’d like to see how [Robert S.] Mueller [III] is going to define what his assignment is.”

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6105 on: May 22, 2017, 10:18:35 AM »
If Democrats had Seth Rich murdered for something so trivial, how the heck is Anthony Weiner still alive?

He must lay the pipe real good.  :noah

no pedo
010

VomKriege

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TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6107 on: May 22, 2017, 11:44:09 AM »
the worst fucking president
püp

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6108 on: May 22, 2017, 11:57:13 AM »
Trump acts like a character from The Office

VomKriege

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6109 on: May 22, 2017, 01:02:18 PM »
The body language in that clip is amazing. Especially the woman telling the press to get out before she realized Trump has something to add...
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T-Short

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etiolate

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6111 on: May 22, 2017, 03:03:02 PM »
I have a slightly better link of the same thing.

https://twitter.com/ChurchofSatan/status/866453928535236608

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6112 on: May 22, 2017, 03:17:21 PM »
If you think any major outlet has cred at this point then you haven't been paying attention.

I think PBS News Hour is still pretty legit, but nobody brings them up because nobody watches actual news.

Nah:

(Image removed from quote.)

There is a chasm in the quality difference between the two camps. The right basically puts trust in talking heads, Fox News and Drudge. The left gets a pretty healthy dose of credible news, and none of them are really at the garbage tier of most of what the right consumes.


lol everyone hates buzzfeed

https://twitter.com/BuzzFeed/status/866671849697968128
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Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6113 on: May 22, 2017, 03:36:33 PM »
https://lawfareblog.com/lawfare-podcast-mira-rapp-hooper-slow-motion-crisis-north-korea

Great podcast by the way.

Great in the now I'm even more worried since it seems these "moderating" influences and "respected" people like McMaster have followed down this seemingly riverboat gamble of a China/NK policy.


Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6114 on: May 22, 2017, 04:38:40 PM »
'But emailghazi!' isn't a valid defense for treason, guys. :doge
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Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6115 on: May 22, 2017, 05:09:37 PM »
There were two separate editorials today on the RCP front page arguing that the Trump administration should start hitting back by prosecuting Hillary Clinton and other Democrats.

I can't see that backfiring in the slightest. "Clinton acquitted on all charges" probably isn't the headline his base is going to want.

Nah, they are far too gone at this point. At least the ones that give a shit about this stuff.

In their mind she is guilty, if she doesn't end up in handcuffs it will be a laundry list of excuses, deflections, conspiracy, or the right-wing media will do like the last 20 investigations and low key ignore it, or start ramping up what the next investigation should look like.

There is no scenario where the Trump right accepts her innocence. Just like I am more and more convinced that they will not accept any Russian findings either. We will have Nixon-era apologetic conspiracies for a generation.

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6116 on: May 22, 2017, 05:18:13 PM »
In some "silver-lining" news:

Quote
  Republican redistricting is taking a beating in the courts (again)

This year, federal courts have been litigating a steady stream of gerrymandering claims. And most of the electoral maps the courts have knocked down were drawn by Republicans.

That’s good news for Democrats: They have an opportunity in several states to draw more favorable congressional and state legislative maps ahead of 2018 elections. And every seat counts, given the 2020 Census is right around the corner, which brings with it the opportunity in many states to draw new district maps.

Some Republican legislatures are paying the price for capturing 21 chambers in the 2010 elections, the last time electoral maps were being drawn. Monday, North Carolina became the third GOP-controlled state legislature in a row to get its map-drawing skills declared illegal by the Supreme Court.

What’s more, the court ruled against North Carolina Republicans in a way that opens the door for Democrats to potentially challenge almost all mapmaking in the South.

The Supreme Court ruled Monday that North Carolina’s GOP-controlled legislature illegally looked at people’s race when drawing two majority-black congressional districts in the state.

Lawmakers argued they were only looking at drawing lines based on people’s party affiliation, but the court ruled that it is reasonable to assume that, in a state like North Carolina, party affiliation are race are pretty much synonymous.

The way the court arrived at its decision is a big deal, said Doug Johnson, a redistricting expert with Claremont McKenna College. “It’s the first time the court has used party as a proxy for race,” he said. “It opens the door to throwing out partisan gerrymandering as well.”


https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/05/22/republican-redistricting-is-taking-a-beating-in-the-courts-again/

Nola

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6117 on: May 22, 2017, 05:22:52 PM »
Also about the case. The GOP, the party of voter integrity:

Quote
In particular, the court found that North Carolina lawmakers requested data on racial differences in voting behaviors in the state. "This data showed that African Americans disproportionately lacked the most common kind of photo ID, those issued by the Department of Motor Vehicles (DMV)," the judges wrote.

So the legislators made it so that the only acceptable forms of voter identification were the ones disproportionately used by white people. "With race data in hand, the legislature amended the bill to exclude many of the alternative photo IDs used by African Americans," the judges wrote. "The bill retained only the kinds of IDs that white North Carolinians were more likely to possess."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2016/07/29/the-smoking-gun-proving-north-carolina-republicans-tried-to-disenfranchise-black-voters/?utm_term=.559be88820f5

Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6118 on: May 22, 2017, 05:27:53 PM »
When Clarence Thomas is like, "nah bruh, that's fucked up" you know shit is not right.
yar

Great Rumbler

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Weekly Trump Scandal Hot Takes
« Reply #6119 on: May 22, 2017, 07:03:44 PM »
President Donald Trump in March asked the director of national intelligence and director of the National Security Agency to push back against the FBI’s investigation into whether members of his campaign colluded with Russian officials last year, the Washington Post reported on Monday.

The Washington Post reported, citing unnamed current and former officials, that Trump asked Director of National Intelligence Daniel Coats and NSA Director Michael Rogers to publicly deny that any evidence of collusion existed.

He made that request after former FBI Director James Comey confirmed to the House Intelligence Committee that his bureau was conducting an investigation into whether there was any “coordination” between Russian officials and Trump’s associates during the campaign, according to the Washington Post.

Two unnamed current and two unnamed former officials cited in the report said that Coats and Rogers deemed Trump’s request inappropriate and refused to do so.

According to the Washington Post, a senior NSA official documented Trump’s conversation with Rogers in an internal memo written at the time.

Senior officials in Trump’s administration also approached top intelligence officials about the possibility of asking Comey to shut down his bureau’s investigation into Trump’s former national security adviser Michael Flynn, the Washington Post reported, citing unnamed sources familiar with the matter.

An unnamed official told the Washington Post that those officials wondered whether they could ask Comey “to shut down the investigation.”
dog