Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5575413 times)

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VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65460 on: August 08, 2020, 06:05:13 PM »
The USA always seemed weird to me too, considering you're mandated to have official ID... for anything, voting included, here. It's not (always) free either, in some cases (including making a new one in case of theft) you need to buy a tax stamp.

The most bizarre thing though is probably that elections in the US don't necessarily happen on an off day (correct me if I'm wrong). All ballots in France happen on Sundays. Lately it's been less and less true that Sundays are universal off days for workers but it's still by far the quietest part of the week. You'd think that at least the US Presidential Election would be a holiday to allow every voter maximum flexibility to partake, instead of forcing rush hour to stations.

I think it's useful to start from the beginning. Take a look at how the founding fathers copy pasted some liberal ideas to justify their revolution against Britain and the general trajectory of abolition. If you have time, skimming something like Federalist 10 will give you an idea of some of the anti-democratic business tyrant philosophy at play here. After that you can find good summaries of the general struggle for universal suffrage in the country anywhere, particularly paying attention to Reconstruction, Jim Crow and the civil rights movement. After that it gets a little more difficult since we technically made de jure racism illegal but there's plenty of useful stuff on voter suppression on left liberal thinkpiece sites.

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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65461 on: August 08, 2020, 06:15:01 PM »
Have a political system from a slave society brehs.
                  Is this sublation?

 :isthis
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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65462 on: August 08, 2020, 06:17:54 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65463 on: August 08, 2020, 06:19:20 PM »
In the present day you have the phenomenon where prison populations count as people for proportional representation purposes, but people in prison generally do not enjoy the right to vote.

The current administration has been fighting to not count undocumented immigrants, but as you said they're fine counting prisoners who similarly can't vote.

All it takes is a quick glance at which states have high concentrations of each of those populations to figure out why.

VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65464 on: August 08, 2020, 06:24:06 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Well obviously it was a thought experiment from a foreign point of view that, for the sake of the argument, supposes the USA is not a basket case.

But to repeat myself, if would probably be simpler and more impactful to make the customary Presidential election Tuesday an holiday.
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65465 on: August 08, 2020, 06:24:59 PM »
Why would we do that? Working people would vote :lol
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Tripon

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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65467 on: August 08, 2020, 06:38:25 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Well obviously it was a thought experiment from a foreign point of view that, for the sake of the argument, supposes the USA is not a basket case.

But to repeat myself, if would probably be simpler and more impactful to make the customary Presidential election Tuesday an holiday.

Is a passport good enough for voter registration? or do you have to go through the get-id-to-get-id thing to get a state ID

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65468 on: August 08, 2020, 06:39:48 PM »
Sidenote: The last time the VRA was up for renewal was in 2006 when the GOP held the trifecta. It passed the House 390-33 and the Senate 98-0.

Last year the Voting Rights Advancement Act passed the House 228-187 with one Republican vote.

Among other things, I think that's a good example of how important the status quo is in US politics.

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65469 on: August 08, 2020, 06:44:41 PM »
The UI benefits one isn't even an executive order, it's a memorandum.

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65470 on: August 08, 2020, 06:56:15 PM »
you're a memorandumk

Kara

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65471 on: August 08, 2020, 06:56:35 PM »
:bolo

Speaking of Fed 10 I saw this when googling it again and it's :delicious

https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/09/no-10-best-federalist-paper-thats-left-hates-much/

Quote
Think of it in this way: we can imagine the elected government of a republic of Manhattan Island with today’s population outlawing the ownership of automobiles by private citizens and rescinding the tax-exempt status of churches.

 :lol

VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65472 on: August 08, 2020, 07:02:07 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Well obviously it was a thought experiment from a foreign point of view that, for the sake of the argument, supposes the USA is not a basket case.

But to repeat myself, if would probably be simpler and more impactful to make the customary Presidential election Tuesday an holiday.

Is a passport good enough for voter registration? or do you have to go through the get-id-to-get-id thing to get a state ID

In France ?

Passports are of equal "value" in justifying your identity as the National ID Card. Those are the two documents accepted as such. I think in some lower stakes situations (not voting though) you may use a driver's licence (Managed by the "Secure ID titles agency") or your Healthcare card (mandatory, universal, and free) since those now have an ID photo (that must follow official guidelines).

Voter registration is mandatory. You're automatically added if you turn 18 or after being naturalized.

If you change residence you need to ask to the town hall to re-assign you at your new address.
To justify registration at your new address you can use : An ID card or a passport OR a tax return, pay slip, ownership title OR a recent utility bill.

Town halls manage the voter rolls but the record is consolidated at the national level (Apparently by the INSEE, the national agency for statistics. In charge of the census too if I'm not mistaken).

When voting, you must present either an ID card or a passport alongside an electoral card (free and automatically mailed) which is stamped after casting the ballot. I'm not even sure the electoral card is mandatory, I was able to do without last time.

All paper ballots. Ballots are pre-printed for all options and at disposal at the station. No write-ins allowed (any added mark on a pre-printed ballot is nullified and discarded).
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 07:13:09 PM by VomKriege »
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65473 on: August 08, 2020, 07:10:29 PM »
Voter registration is mandatory. You're automatically added if you turn 18 or after being naturalized.
must be nice
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Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65474 on: August 08, 2020, 07:29:27 PM »
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900516854/in-executive-actions-trump-extends-unemployment-benefits
Quote
"The Treasury Secretary is authorized to delay the deadline for any action required under tax law up to one year," said Rudalevige, in case of a federally declared disaster, and all states are currently operating under one due to the pandemic. "So payroll tax payments could under this provision be delayed. But, not forgiven — those taxes are still owed."
So the tax thing they can just do, at least delay until after the election because of the Pandemic. That's probably why Mnuchin was so sure they could provide relief even if Democrats wouldn't budge.

The unemployment benefits could be legally challenged. It would take some serious guts to block $300 a month for families in need though.
Not sure about Trump's demand for states to throw in another $100 though, that could easily be blocked by both Democrats or Republicans.

Same with the student loans, again a subject that is hard for the Democrats to challenge.
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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65475 on: August 08, 2020, 07:42:48 PM »
outflanked from the left again  :trumps
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65476 on: August 08, 2020, 07:45:48 PM »
Actually, Trump's executive order makes it even harder for the two sides to come to a deal because it gets rid of most of the common ground. What's left is funding for state governments, the election, and the gap in unemployment benefits. That's one reason some people didn't want him to do it, in addition to losing face.
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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65477 on: August 08, 2020, 08:18:15 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Well obviously it was a thought experiment from a foreign point of view that, for the sake of the argument, supposes the USA is not a basket case.

But to repeat myself, if would probably be simpler and more impactful to make the customary Presidential election Tuesday an holiday.

Is a passport good enough for voter registration? or do you have to go through the get-id-to-get-id thing to get a state ID

In France ?

Passports are of equal "value" in justifying your identity as the National ID Card. Those are the two documents accepted as such. I think in some lower stakes situations (not voting though) you may use a driver's licence (Managed by the "Secure ID titles agency") or your Healthcare card (mandatory, universal, and free) since those now have an ID photo (that must follow official guidelines).

Voter registration is mandatory. You're automatically added if you turn 18 or after being naturalized.

If you change residence you need to ask to the town hall to re-assign you at your new address.
To justify registration at your new address you can use : An ID card or a passport OR a tax return, pay slip, ownership title OR a recent utility bill.

Town halls manage the voter rolls but the record is consolidated at the national level (Apparently by the INSEE, the national agency for statistics. In charge of the census too if I'm not mistaken).

When voting, you must present either an ID card or a passport alongside an electoral card (free and automatically mailed) which is stamped after casting the ballot. I'm not even sure the electoral card is mandatory, I was able to do without last time.

All paper ballots. Ballots are pre-printed for all options and at disposal at the station. No write-ins allowed (any added mark on a pre-printed ballot is nullified and discarded).

No, not france I meant in good ol glory bursting in the sky.

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65478 on: August 08, 2020, 08:19:29 PM »
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Kara

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65479 on: August 08, 2020, 08:28:47 PM »
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900516854/in-executive-actions-trump-extends-unemployment-benefits
Quote
"The Treasury Secretary is authorized to delay the deadline for any action required under tax law up to one year," said Rudalevige, in case of a federally declared disaster, and all states are currently operating under one due to the pandemic. "So payroll tax payments could under this provision be delayed. But, not forgiven — those taxes are still owed."
So the tax thing they can just do, at least delay until after the election because of the Pandemic.

The part of the Code he is referring to applies to the affected taxpayer and the obligations they are responsible for. In the case of payroll tax collection and transmission the taxpayer is the employer and not the employee. So no, they can't just do it.

Tripon

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65480 on: August 08, 2020, 09:24:05 PM »
Who's the guy who keeps on telling Trump that a payroll tax cut will do anything?


Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65481 on: August 08, 2020, 09:27:34 PM »
Who's the guy who keeps on telling Trump that a payroll tax cut will do anything?



Every GOP congressperson.


Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65483 on: August 08, 2020, 09:56:40 PM »
I'm sorry, yo solo hablo espanol.

benjipwns

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65484 on: August 08, 2020, 10:01:13 PM »
The voter fraud worries are just more cult of the voting process. The costs of altering an election through mass fake voting compared to simply altering the results* are completely out of whack and yet we're obsessed with the voting ritual itself like the rest of the system doesn't exist. This leads to absurd laws like it being illegal to take and share a picture of your ballot for whatever insane reason.

About the only valid restriction on voting is the residency requirement because we have representative government by geographical location. And that can simply be sworn to or via the voter card I suppose if we really need a document of some kind.

*For example, as Papa Lukashenko had to resort to when the people voted for him simply too much so he ordered it only be reported as 86%.

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65485 on: August 08, 2020, 10:47:17 PM »
semis cross posting, but I aint copying shit.

navarro on the biden campaign is such a stupid fucking move.

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65486 on: August 08, 2020, 10:52:16 PM »
The voter fraud worries are just more cult of the voting process. The costs of altering an election through mass fake voting compared to simply altering the results* are completely out of whack and yet we're obsessed with the voting ritual itself like the rest of the system doesn't exist.

okay but "voter fraud" is overwhelmingly invoked as a danger by one party and its media ecosystem for p obvious reasons

Kara

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65488 on: August 09, 2020, 01:25:24 AM »


 :biden
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65489 on: August 09, 2020, 01:55:11 AM »
Quote
TikTok to Sue Trump Administration as Soon as Tuesday

:lucas
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EchoRin

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65491 on: August 09, 2020, 06:14:37 AM »
Can someone just tell Joe to stop putting his hands on people? Handshakes = good. Everything else = leave it be. Maybe in some other countries/cultures contact and personal space is perceived differently (which is fine), but this keeps making you look not so great within social norms of the US of A.

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65492 on: August 09, 2020, 06:34:20 AM »
Remember that time Al Franken was killed in that photo op session?

VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65493 on: August 09, 2020, 06:35:19 AM »
The voter fraud worries are just more cult of the voting process. The costs of altering an election through mass fake voting compared to simply altering the results* are completely out of whack and yet we're obsessed with the voting ritual itself like the rest of the system doesn't exist. This leads to absurd laws like it being illegal to take and share a picture of your ballot for whatever insane reason.

About the only valid restriction on voting is the residency requirement because we have representative government by geographical location. And that can simply be sworn to or via the voter card I suppose if we really need a document of some kind.

*For example, as Papa Lukashenko had to resort to when the people voted for him simply too much so he ordered it only be reported as 86%.

Good old ballot stuffing or bags of votes being conveniently lost is still a thing though. There's a lot of reasons why you'd still want to use it in conjunction with just putting the thumb on the reporting scale.
:trumps

I think it's a bit much to label it purely fetishistic cultish.
Definitely overblown in the current US discourse though.
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Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65494 on: August 09, 2020, 06:36:08 AM »
Can someone just tell Joe to stop putting his hands on people? Handshakes = good. Everything else = leave it be. Maybe in some other countries/cultures contact and personal space is perceived differently (which is fine), but this keeps making you look not so great within social norms of the US of A.
:biden Come on man
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BIONIC

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65495 on: August 09, 2020, 06:39:05 AM »
Remember that time Al Franken was killed in that photo op session?

RIP Al Franken and the cast of Friends  :(
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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65496 on: August 09, 2020, 08:43:28 AM »
Anyone other than Rice would be political theatre, and as much as biden is hands on in that arena, his handlers aren't stupid.

BrokenVerses

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65497 on: August 09, 2020, 12:04:47 PM »
I thought Trump was resentful that Obama got a payroll tax cut in the stimulus...

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65498 on: August 09, 2020, 12:07:24 PM »
Do you think Trump even knows that cutting the payroll tax is effectively trying to cut Medicaid and SSN, or was he just convinced it'd a great idea by scumbags that actually know what it will do

This guy



Doesn't even know what a payroll tax is.

benjipwns

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65499 on: August 09, 2020, 01:27:52 PM »
Good old ballot stuffing or bags of votes being conveniently lost is still a thing though. There's a lot of reasons why you'd still want to use it in conjunction with just putting the thumb on the reporting scale.
That's just altering the results and providing paperwork to justify it. It's not trying to do anything through the legitimate voting process.

The Republican/Trumpist/etc. fear is that Democrats will swarm the ballot box with millions of Mexicans and other illegal immigrants (predominantly Islamic) to vote Marxist, well, not anymore, now it's just that they'll mail in billions more ballots than there are registered voters. It always assumes someone will try to cheat the fairly airtight process, not do anything after the fact to alter the results which are somehow inherently sacrosanct. Someone voting without an ID or whatever "loophole" would lead to the polls being rushed by trillions of these voters is only a problem if they're doing it in another persons name denying that person a chance to cast their ballot. If they're not and merely adding a few votes to the total who gives a fuck. Especially if they're a resident.

Kara

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65500 on: August 09, 2020, 01:28:38 PM »
Do you think Trump even knows that cutting the payroll tax is effectively trying to cut Medicaid and SSN, or was he just convinced it'd a great idea by scumbags that actually know what it will do

I think that's a fringe benefit to him. Whatever the primary motivation is I don't know, though.

There was a Wall Street Journal editorial recently touting it, but that was after he was pushing for it iirc, and I very much doubt he reads the Wall Street Journal, even its benighted editorial page.

shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65501 on: August 09, 2020, 01:31:17 PM »
He thinks lowering taxes will stimulate the economy. He already lowered income tax so this is the next best option. That's it.

There was a Wall Street Journal editorial recently touting it, but that was after he was pushing for it iirc, and I very much doubt he reads the Wall Street Journal, even its benighted editorial page.
Only person I know who reads the editorial page of WSJ is Jack Remington :lol
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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65502 on: August 09, 2020, 02:03:08 PM »
How else are you gonna find out about the next iphone advances?

Tripon

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« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 02:38:57 PM by Tripon »

shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65504 on: August 09, 2020, 02:53:59 PM »
The party is a coalition and its machine is comprised of an insular cohort; I don't think even Jack would disagree with that
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Lonewulfeus

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65505 on: August 09, 2020, 03:00:44 PM »
Yes he would, and so would his 1200 friends.

shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65506 on: August 09, 2020, 04:09:00 PM »
motherfuckers in florida banning online-only education :lol eat shit and die
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Himu

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65507 on: August 09, 2020, 04:11:40 PM »
:lol the south
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Tripon

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65508 on: August 09, 2020, 04:29:07 PM »
Florida's looking directly at what's happening in Georgia and Mississippi's schools and saying I want that and more.

Himu

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65509 on: August 09, 2020, 04:46:09 PM »
:lol the south
Florida's is normally an exception from the South, as such our leader is more of a sociopath than an ignorant BelieverR.

Florida is south as far as I'm concerned. I don't really care what people say. That place is southern as fuck. If it doesn't count for the south, it should. It's cut from the same cloth.
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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65510 on: August 09, 2020, 05:44:15 PM »
:lol

shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65511 on: August 09, 2020, 05:45:16 PM »
We should do it
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Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65512 on: August 09, 2020, 05:48:53 PM »
Quote
"I started laughing," she said. "He wasn't laughing, so he was totally serious."

 :trumps

Mt. TRUMPMORE  :rejoice
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james

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65513 on: August 09, 2020, 06:10:40 PM »
You know how in Pilotwings 64 you can shoot missiles into Mt Rushmore?

I like that
:O

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65514 on: August 09, 2020, 06:23:43 PM »
that skydiving in pilotwings was so fucking annoying

tiesto

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65515 on: August 09, 2020, 07:50:28 PM »
:lol the south
Florida's is normally an exception from the South, as such our leader is more of a sociopath than an ignorant BelieverR.

Florida is south as far as I'm concerned. I don't really care what people say. That place is southern as fuck. If it doesn't count for the south, it should. It's cut from the same cloth.

Florida is the place where the further north you are, the more "south" it feels....
^_^

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65516 on: August 09, 2020, 07:54:11 PM »
florida and texas are both southern but not the south  :ufup
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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65517 on: August 09, 2020, 07:59:15 PM »
neither state is poor enough to be part of the true south  :engel
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Stoney Mason

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65518 on: August 09, 2020, 08:12:41 PM »
Florida is the place where the further north you are, the more "south" it feels....

Sadly true. North Florida is truly a shithole. Not that there aren't big stretches of redneck people in the central part of the state. Florida is a weird mix of georgia and new york having a baby. Although in recent years the "southern" trumpist parts of the state has been in slow accession. I use to take a small bit of pride that Florida was "better" than the rest of the South when I was younger but that isn't really the case anymore.

Great Rumbler

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #65519 on: August 09, 2020, 08:28:14 PM »
florida and texas are both southern but not the south  :ufup

Drive a few miles outside of any Texas city and you'll see this isn't accurate.
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