Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 5453961 times)

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Brehvolution

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8400 on: August 18, 2017, 02:41:44 PM »
 :lol Like shitbart has any power.   :cac
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zomgee

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8401 on: August 18, 2017, 02:44:21 PM »
Old people can't turn on Breitbart on the Dumont TV.
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Steve Contra

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8402 on: August 18, 2017, 03:09:20 PM »
TFW when Mitt Romney seems like a great alternative

Quote from: Mittens
I will dispense for now from discussion of the moral character of the president's Charlottesville statements. Whether he intended to or not, what he communicated caused racists to rejoice, minorities to weep, and the vast heart of America to mourn. His apologists strain to explain that he didn't mean what we heard. But what we heard is now the reality, and unless it is addressed by the president as such, with unprecedented candor and strength, there may commence an unraveling of our national fabric.
The leaders of our branches of military service have spoken immediately and forcefully, repudiating the implications of the president's words. Why? In part because the morale and commitment of our forces--made up and sustained by men and women of all races--could be in the balance. Our allies around the world are stunned and our enemies celebrate; America's ability to help secure a peaceful and prosperous world is diminished. And who would want to come to the aid of a country they perceive as racist if ever the need were to arise, as it did after 9/11?
In homes across the nation, children are asking their parents what this means. Jews, blacks, Hispanics, Muslims are as much a part of America as whites and Protestants. But today they wonder. Where might this lead? To bitterness and tears, or perhaps to anger and violence?
The potential consequences are severe in the extreme. Accordingly, the president must take remedial action in the extreme. He should address the American people, acknowledge that he was wrong, apologize. State forcefully and unequivocally that racists are 100% to blame for the murder and violence in Charlottesville. Testify that there is no conceivable comparison or moral equivalency between the Nazis--who brutally murdered millions of Jews and who hundreds of thousands of Americans gave their lives to defeat--and the counter-protestors who were outraged to see fools parading the Nazi flag, Nazi armband and Nazi salute. And once and for all, he must definitively repudiate the support of David Duke and his ilk and call for every American to banish racists and haters from any and every association.
This is a defining moment for President Trump. But much more than that, it is a moment that will define America in the hearts of our children. They are watching, our soldiers are watching, the world is watching. Mr. President, act now for the good of the country.
vin

El Babua

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8403 on: August 18, 2017, 06:43:06 PM »
All this could have been avoided if Mittens won in 2012 :smug

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8404 on: August 18, 2017, 06:44:29 PM »

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8405 on: August 18, 2017, 07:04:45 PM »
two in a row? http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/taibbi-fire-steve-bannon-w498354

real mastermind behind trump exposed?

That article is kind of hilarious. "He is not a genius  but is not dump. He could have messed up and didn't say it was off the rector or he could be planning something"

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8406 on: August 18, 2017, 07:28:45 PM »
I think the same happened as before. Dumbshit thought he was invincible with his boss, that he provides too much for Trump and has proven his loyalty, only to find out Trump is more bipolar than he expects.

At least we got Bannon looking uncomfortable in Saudi Arabia and the Mooch ethering him with that suck his own cock line. Now he can fuck off for good.

We got that photo of Bannon as the Baron Harkonnen or that time when he looked clueless after Trump forgot to sign a executive order.


agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8408 on: August 18, 2017, 08:21:00 PM »
Don't forget people, Mitt Romney is the cuck that put asside his principles and his dignity at a chance to be a part of this rotten administration.

Atramental

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« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 09:44:46 PM by Atramental »


benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8411 on: August 18, 2017, 09:51:55 PM »
Just a historical note, this actually isn't as uncommon as you might expect in the modern presidency.

Obviously Trump surrounded himself with far worse people than his predecessors, and he's churning through them at a pretty epic rate in some cases, but every single one since Eisenhower has faced a similar semi-faux "crisis" where they had to clean house and reorganize things within their first two years. It's a factor of our modern system where we don't have patronage officially anymore, but we obviously do and campaign staffers don't transition well into administrative positions. Just to use the Taibbi piece, Bannon basically pulled Trump's campaign out of its tailspin but he never had the skill base to be a staffer, neither did Priebus really. Karl Rove didn't, and it wasn't until the second term when he tried to actually take this kind of power and fell flat on his face. We can be overly nice to Trump and say he's realized this and so he's dumped out all these people in favor of General Kelly and so on, which also fits with his long known fealty to military members. Trump never really wanted the GOPers he fought against for two years, but accepted a bunch of them on the assumption they would be assets in dealing with Congress, then he realized they aren't, has flailed a bit turning to people he trusted like Kushner or liked on TV like The Mooch, and now with North Korea and all his plans failing in Congress and so on he's maybe had a "okay, maybe we'll get a bit more serious about this" moment. He might even see Bannon as more of an asset outside the White House, I mean the guy essentially disappeared for months, but now he's free to reorganize Breitbart and the like into helping Trump pressure the GOPers. Or maybe that's what Kelly or somebody else sold him on. Combined with Trump being upset about his interview, inability to suck his own cock, etc.

Now, I'm being overly fair there to Trump as a manager just to illustrate the point, I want to stop for a second to say I'm not trying to give the impression that he's competent, remember I proposed writing about how The Apprentice explains everything that's happened so far, and I'm not exactly seeing much deviation from that theory.

Rather I was trying to place him in the context of other Presidents of our era, Obama reorganized around the edges and then sent Rahm packing to Chicago in exchange for Bill Daley and a future second round pick. Clinton had to get bailed out twice in his first two years due to poor staffing choices, including bringing David Gergan of all people in to save things the first time and then shunted out everybody for Dick Morris before doing another purge as impeachment loomed. Carter tried to be his own chief of staff until it collapsed and he was forced to essentially rebuild his entire cabinet. LBJ had to deal with the fact that JFK's people were in place and he had to push them out somehow as they were not allies, then he ran into the problem of Humphrey in his final days. JFK tried to staff up with people he liked but then realized he needed people who could tell him things he didn't want to hear. (Though he never lived to figure out that RFK acting in two roles was a problem.)

Nixon avoided this in two ways, he was beyond paranoid as fuck and set everyone against each other from the start, and the GOP was so happy to finally be back in the White House after years outside it (barring the Eisenhower interregnum) that people signed up to be abused. Ford had to do something similar to LBJ in that he needed to get rid of Nixon people and put his guys in like Cheney and Rumsfeld but at the same time, some of the various positions were not entirely Nixon loyalists, plus he had Nixon trying to push him out for John Connolly. Like H.W. Bush he ran into issues of trying to staff his re-election and his White House.

Reagan's staff management was actually based around chucking out people after two years or so. This was half Reagan and his circles own style and half how they shifted from domestic to foreign to domestic, etc. policy focuses. (Which drove Thatcher insane according to her memoirs.)

And all those people were normal politicians who had either been in Washington for a long time or been state executives. Trump's experience for the last twenty years has been entirely different from the twenty before them, and none of them have been like any President we've ever had. The Carter comparison is one I actually like from a certain perspective, Carter came in assuming he would just handle everything because Washington was a joke and he knew better. So did Trump. Carter alienated everyone in Washington and took forever to realize that as much as we hate them, there may be good reasons that certain things are done a certain way in Washington. The chief of staff position was Eisenhower importing his military experience, BUT, it was also on his familiarity with Truman and FDR's chaotic White Houses (FDR's by design) and Truman even later expressed that he wished he had thought of it as he wasted so much time dealing with stuff he should have never been concerning himself with.

Anyway, just some stray thoughts, and I again want to emphasize I'm not trying to argue for/against this or Trump, just that historically it's not really out of the ordinary for these shuffles even this early in an administration. Especially considering Trump was operating with two chief of staffs in Priebus and Bannon. (Not to mention Kushner.) W. Bush did something similar with Rove and Card but he clearly delineated their lines (Rove = electoral politics, Card = executive branch) as to where they had authority until Card left and Rove tried to enlarge his power base and it backfired. Trump never did anything like this, and by all accounts pushed out Priebus (who he never trusted) except for the title to lean on Bannon. Kelly, I have to assume took issue with this nonsense, and I'm assuming that Bannon may have even realized and suggested he could be more effective (or at least make money) on the outside. Especially since he had to know Trump was likely to side with Kelly.
« Last Edit: August 18, 2017, 09:57:00 PM by benjipwns »

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8412 on: August 18, 2017, 10:12:05 PM »
Benji plz, I'm not reading that wall of text

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8413 on: August 18, 2017, 10:12:22 PM »
So Alex Jones runs pretty damn fast apparently

Mandark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8414 on: August 18, 2017, 10:26:41 PM »
Even in historical context, this level of chaos stands out.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8415 on: August 18, 2017, 11:05:25 PM »
No, I agree, I think the former here might be a strongly influencing factor on the latter:
Obviously Trump surrounded himself with far worse people than his predecessors, and he's churning through them at a pretty epic rate in some cases

The first year of the Clinton Presidency was a significant mess too from a "policy neutral" viewpoint like I was trying to take with Trump. Much of it self-inflicted like the Trump administrations. Clinton spent nine months on Don't Ask, Don't Tell, probably an equivalent to Trump's endless immigration orders fight. The budget fight consumed Congress and the White House for the first year. He didn't even get Janet Reno in place until March. The World Trade Center bombing, Somalia and attempted assassination of Bush happened in the first year and each time required them to shift foreign policy focuses if temporarily. All on this on top of the increasingly unpopular with everyone on the planet Hillarycare. It being The Year of Hell is about the one thing all the memoirs and Woodward book agree on.

It's no wonder he, Trump and Ford are the only post-war Presidents to spend their 100-200 day period in office under 40% approval. (Neither Clinton nor Ford dropped under 50% in their first 100 days however.)

Oddly enough Bill spent most of 1994 above 50% despite the on-coming battering the Democrats were approaching. (I assume this was because he blew up the Krenim time ship and restarted the time line.) He wouldn't do that well consistently until he was impeached after which he never fell under 52%. :lol

Trent Dole

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Yeti

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8417 on: August 19, 2017, 03:20:24 AM »
WDW

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8418 on: August 19, 2017, 06:24:29 AM »
https://twitter.com/MillennialShep/status/898131458140798976
This is the weirdest fucking timeline possible.
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Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8419 on: August 19, 2017, 06:37:13 AM »
https://twitter.com/MillennialShep/status/898131458140798976
This is the weirdest fucking timeline possible.

The enemies of my enemy are my... very weird friends.
yar

CatsCatsCats

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8420 on: August 19, 2017, 11:33:01 AM »
No. Juggalos are family. Woop woop

Boredfrom

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8421 on: August 19, 2017, 01:11:39 PM »
So the Boston rally was a nothing burger in the alt right side of the fence. Dunno what they expected after the push back of this week

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8422 on: August 19, 2017, 01:23:46 PM »
So the Boston rally was a nothing burger in the alt right side of the fence. Dunno what they expected after the push back of this week

If I have my facts straight, half the speakers dropped out after it started to get attention.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8423 on: August 19, 2017, 01:26:15 PM »
There were literally like three dozen dudes and you could barely even see them. I'm getting pho in Chinatoen and on my way over two of them were surrounded by activists on Washington and a grin of cops showed up to usher them away. It's not gonna be a fun afternoon for these guys once they're on their own.

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8424 on: August 19, 2017, 01:28:57 PM »
I will say Boston seems to be handling this pretty well. The alt-right guys are isolated on basically an island with dead space all around them and the counterprotesters blocked quite a ways away. Plus a shit-ton of BPD in between. Though that makes the original "protest" even more goddamn pointless, lol. Nobody can even really hear what they're saying or protesting haha.

seagrams hotsauce

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8425 on: August 19, 2017, 02:25:38 PM »
They weren't there for very long at all. I got there around 11 and they dipped by noon or so.

TakingBackSunday

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8426 on: August 19, 2017, 03:57:34 PM »
püp

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8427 on: August 19, 2017, 05:04:36 PM »
https://twitter.com/realDonaldDrumpf/status/898988632551370753

I can't fucking take it anymore
Don's always been a hyperauthoritarian Nazi fucking asshole, he's just entirely out in the open about it now. Good on my old home's capital showing up and shutting them the fuck down. :american :salute
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Joe Molotov

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Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8429 on: August 19, 2017, 07:35:12 PM »
He used "protesters" instead of "counter-protesters"... :thinking

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8430 on: August 19, 2017, 11:36:40 PM »
They use a two week aggregate so give it another week to drop out the polls again. You have a five point jump in Marist and four point in YouGuv that has to be washed out. The trend is still downward, but you see those little jumps every so often in the lines as some of the polls drag.

All that said I feel like 35/60 will be a settle point for a long time. Especially when Congress comes back.

edit: he improved ten points in the Quinnipac poll over the last inclusion!

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8431 on: August 20, 2017, 12:02:09 AM »


Bitch stole my sign.  >:(

benjipwns

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Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8433 on: August 20, 2017, 12:13:54 AM »
Quote
Isn't this just leftist fan fiction meant to give solace to those who need some hope and healing?

Yes.

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chronovore

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8434 on: August 20, 2017, 12:27:05 AM »
There were literally like three dozen dudes and you could barely even see them. I'm getting pho in Chinatoen and on my way over two of them were surrounded by activists on Washington and a grin of cops showed up to usher them away. It's not gonna be a fun afternoon for these guys once they're on their own.
A school of fish. A murder of crows. A pod of whales.

A grin of cops.

I'm unnerved by this collective noun.

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8435 on: August 20, 2017, 01:22:17 AM »
just realized I've wasted weeks not asking Republicans I know about the prospect of supporting Kid Rock for Senator

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8436 on: August 20, 2017, 01:22:22 AM »

Trent Dole

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8437 on: August 20, 2017, 01:30:54 AM »
https://twitter.com/governorpataki/status/897457247256760322

the coveted george pataki endorsement!
They really need another loudmouth asshat who doesn't know how to actually govern? :doge :trumps
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8438 on: August 20, 2017, 01:51:02 AM »
I suppose you have a better idea of how to reboot The Singing Senators? That's what I thought.

TVC15

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8439 on: August 20, 2017, 01:54:36 AM »
I suppose you have a better idea of how to reboot The Singing Senators? That's what I thought.

The only way for the Ds to win against the Singing Senators is to track down and recruit the Dancing Itos.
serge

agrajag

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agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8441 on: August 20, 2017, 02:26:13 AM »
What in the actual fuck is up with this rally? I was hoping he'd be at 35% approval by now. Somehow Cheeto has gained 2 1/2 points instead.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/president_trump_job_approval-6179.html

his base is energized
« Last Edit: August 20, 2017, 02:32:05 AM by agrajag »

Human Snorenado

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8442 on: August 20, 2017, 02:45:23 AM »
Haha, I bet Bannon is right- the racist shit is a winner for them politically. Fuck this goddamn awful country.
yar

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8443 on: August 20, 2017, 04:21:12 AM »
the economist and the new yorker could learn a thing about political satire and hard hitting comedy from ol puck:


Atramental

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8444 on: August 20, 2017, 02:39:18 PM »

Phoenix Dark

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8445 on: August 20, 2017, 05:53:42 PM »
Just a historical note, this actually isn't as uncommon as you might expect in the modern presidency.

Obviously Trump surrounded himself with far worse people than his predecessors, and he's churning through them at a pretty epic rate in some cases, but every single one since Eisenhower has faced a similar semi-faux "crisis" where they had to clean house and reorganize things within their first two years. It's a factor of our modern system where we don't have patronage officially anymore, but we obviously do and campaign staffers don't transition well into administrative positions. Just to use the Taibbi piece, Bannon basically pulled Trump's campaign out of its tailspin but he never had the skill base to be a staffer, neither did Priebus really. Karl Rove didn't, and it wasn't until the second term when he tried to actually take this kind of power and fell flat on his face. We can be overly nice to Trump and say he's realized this and so he's dumped out all these people in favor of General Kelly and so on, which also fits with his long known fealty to military members. Trump never really wanted the GOPers he fought against for two years, but accepted a bunch of them on the assumption they would be assets in dealing with Congress, then he realized they aren't, has flailed a bit turning to people he trusted like Kushner or liked on TV like The Mooch, and now with North Korea and all his plans failing in Congress and so on he's maybe had a "okay, maybe we'll get a bit more serious about this" moment. He might even see Bannon as more of an asset outside the White House, I mean the guy essentially disappeared for months, but now he's free to reorganize Breitbart and the like into helping Trump pressure the GOPers. Or maybe that's what Kelly or somebody else sold him on. Combined with Trump being upset about his interview, inability to suck his own cock, etc.

Now, I'm being overly fair there to Trump as a manager just to illustrate the point, I want to stop for a second to say I'm not trying to give the impression that he's competent, remember I proposed writing about how The Apprentice explains everything that's happened so far, and I'm not exactly seeing much deviation from that theory.

Rather I was trying to place him in the context of other Presidents of our era, Obama reorganized around the edges and then sent Rahm packing to Chicago in exchange for Bill Daley and a future second round pick. Clinton had to get bailed out twice in his first two years due to poor staffing choices, including bringing David Gergan of all people in to save things the first time and then shunted out everybody for Dick Morris before doing another purge as impeachment loomed. Carter tried to be his own chief of staff until it collapsed and he was forced to essentially rebuild his entire cabinet. LBJ had to deal with the fact that JFK's people were in place and he had to push them out somehow as they were not allies, then he ran into the problem of Humphrey in his final days. JFK tried to staff up with people he liked but then realized he needed people who could tell him things he didn't want to hear. (Though he never lived to figure out that RFK acting in two roles was a problem.)

Nixon avoided this in two ways, he was beyond paranoid as fuck and set everyone against each other from the start, and the GOP was so happy to finally be back in the White House after years outside it (barring the Eisenhower interregnum) that people signed up to be abused. Ford had to do something similar to LBJ in that he needed to get rid of Nixon people and put his guys in like Cheney and Rumsfeld but at the same time, some of the various positions were not entirely Nixon loyalists, plus he had Nixon trying to push him out for John Connolly. Like H.W. Bush he ran into issues of trying to staff his re-election and his White House.

Reagan's staff management was actually based around chucking out people after two years or so. This was half Reagan and his circles own style and half how they shifted from domestic to foreign to domestic, etc. policy focuses. (Which drove Thatcher insane according to her memoirs.)

And all those people were normal politicians who had either been in Washington for a long time or been state executives. Trump's experience for the last twenty years has been entirely different from the twenty before them, and none of them have been like any President we've ever had. The Carter comparison is one I actually like from a certain perspective, Carter came in assuming he would just handle everything because Washington was a joke and he knew better. So did Trump. Carter alienated everyone in Washington and took forever to realize that as much as we hate them, there may be good reasons that certain things are done a certain way in Washington. The chief of staff position was Eisenhower importing his military experience, BUT, it was also on his familiarity with Truman and FDR's chaotic White Houses (FDR's by design) and Truman even later expressed that he wished he had thought of it as he wasted so much time dealing with stuff he should have never been concerning himself with.

Anyway, just some stray thoughts, and I again want to emphasize I'm not trying to argue for/against this or Trump, just that historically it's not really out of the ordinary for these shuffles even this early in an administration. Especially considering Trump was operating with two chief of staffs in Priebus and Bannon. (Not to mention Kushner.) W. Bush did something similar with Rove and Card but he clearly delineated their lines (Rove = electoral politics, Card = executive branch) as to where they had authority until Card left and Rove tried to enlarge his power base and it backfired. Trump never did anything like this, and by all accounts pushed out Priebus (who he never trusted) except for the title to lean on Bannon. Kelly, I have to assume took issue with this nonsense, and I'm assuming that Bannon may have even realized and suggested he could be more effective (or at least make money) on the outside. Especially since he had to know Trump was likely to side with Kelly.

just quoting to make clear that I did not read this post
010

agrajag

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8446 on: August 21, 2017, 01:25:11 AM »
how come when I say I didn't read it I get no likes, but when PD does it he gets like a billion, I'm being treated very unfairly by The Bore

Tasty

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8447 on: August 21, 2017, 01:31:31 AM »
how come when I say I didn't read it I get no likes, but when PD does it he gets like a billion, I'm being treated very unfairly by The Bore

Whatever, Dufus.

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8448 on: August 21, 2017, 03:02:03 AM »
we're supposed to read posts here?
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8449 on: August 21, 2017, 01:07:08 PM »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8450 on: August 21, 2017, 02:38:07 PM »

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8451 on: August 21, 2017, 02:50:19 PM »
In Germany, the “offending” characters were the Jews that acquired all the prestigious positions in society and amassed considerable wealth through education and hard work. In the U.S. today, the conservative male is the racist, sexist, bigot, fascist that perpetuates his patriarchy restricting others from success. Nothing the conservative male says or does can take away the supposed unknown, mysterious crimes his cohort has perpetuated onto the innocent, all-deserving, minority-status public. The similarities between these two hate based attacks is striking and if not halted, the U.S. will justify discriminatory wealth confiscation, permanent imprisonment, and eventually execution of the most successful, selfless, intelligent members of the United States, all in the name of equality.
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benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8453 on: August 21, 2017, 05:55:41 PM »
i'm hoping he was just stunned by having looked directly at the eclipse or something because his short interview with Mark Steyn today, that tipped me off to the book, didn't even include any actual Nazi-related examples...all he talked about was how Woodrow Wilson was a racist and how FDR worked with Southern Democrats to pass the New Deal...

Steyn seemed completely confused but lucked into a hard break and D'Souza wasn't there when he came back so maybe he died or something

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8454 on: August 21, 2017, 05:56:40 PM »


 :lol this is the same kind of interview, has he had some kind of stroke?

edit: it sounds like a ten year late knock off of this:

Goldberg's argument was that there was an ideological lineage that should give pause to some "liberal" ideas/etc. like eugenics though it got increasingly absurdist as he tried to rope in everything he could like conservation movements, anti-war protesting, etc.

D'Souza from the interviews seems to actually think there was an extensive planned and then covered up plot (that started before the Nazi's existed) to rebrand literal Nazi's as Democrats because this would...let them attack the right as the real Nazi's? :trumps

Quote
What is “the big lie” of the Democratic Party? That conservatives—and President Donald Trump in particular—are fascists. Nazis, even. In a typical comment, MSNBC host Rachel Maddow says the Trump era is reminiscent of “what it was like when Hitler first became chancellor.”

But in fact, this audacious lie is a complete inversion of the truth. Yes, there is a fascist threat in America—but that threat is from the Left and the Democratic Party. The Democratic left has an ideology virtually identical with fascism and routinely borrows tactics of intimidation and political terror from the Nazi Brownshirts.

To cover up their insidious fascist agenda, Democrats loudly accuse President Trump and other Republicans of being Nazis—an obvious lie, considering the GOP has been fighting the Democrats over slavery, genocide, racism and fascism from the beginning.

Now, finally, Dinesh D’Souza explodes the Left’s big lie. He expertly exonerates President Trump and his supporters, then uncovers the Democratic Left’s long, cozy relationship with Nazism: how the racist and genocidal acts of early Democrats inspired Adolf Hitler’s campaign of death; how fascist philosophers influenced the great 20th century lions of the American Left; and how today’s anti-free speech, anti-capitalist, anti-religious liberty, pro-violence Democratic Party is a frightening simulacrum of the Nazi Party.

Hitler coined the term “the big lie” to describe a lie that “the great masses of the people” will fall for precisely because of how bold and monstrous the lie is. In The Big Lie, D’Souza shows that the Democratic Left’s orchestrated campaign to paint President Trump and conservatives as Nazis to cover up its own fascism is, in fact, the biggest lie of all.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 06:16:25 PM by benjipwns »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8456 on: August 21, 2017, 06:34:03 PM »
From what I've heard, it's basically "did you know it was Democrats who supported Jim Crow?" combined with other people's scholarship about how some of Nazi Germany's racial policies were modeled after certain American laws.

Goldberg's book sounded more like an idiot's attempt at intellectual history.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 06:43:22 PM by Mandark »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8457 on: August 21, 2017, 06:49:10 PM »
Ha, he mentions that guy in the twitter video and did in the Steyn interview. In the twitter clip he almost literally reads the blurb for that book.

Liberal Fascism is a bit of a weird duck, in a way you can almost tell how it was edited into a more mass market conservative work, as it starts by trying to outline Mussolini's ideology and history along with the various Italian socialist writers he crewed up with before the March, which I liked because Mussolini was an interesting fellow but he probably lost half the readers there, then it starts to quickly fall apart because he skips a bunch of steps trying to tie Hitler's fascism to the then current 2006-ish Democratic platform almost item for item. So rather than properly tracing any ideological lineage he more or less is just picking two random spots on a timeline. Oddly, at least from my perspective, is that he knew enough to go backwards to at least the Progressive Era in order to work in Eugenics (especially since Mussolini was far far less interested in that than his compatriots) but not far enough back to rope in the rest of the Era (not even to grab Wilson, let alone someone like Teddy) or farther back to grab Mussolini's ideological forefathers. (Or "Mussolini" in the case of The Doctrine of Fascism.)

That's why D'Souza's the smarter writer, his audience just wants the "Democrats used to be racist, Nazi's were less racist by one measure, therefore Democrats are actual Nazi's" bulletproof argument that leaves cowardly Antifa Stormtroopers REKT.

edit: I forgot that Liberal Fascism got smacked twice by Obama, the original subtitle was based on the assumption that Hillary would be the 2008 nominee and was something like "From Mussolini To It Takes A Village" and the paperback version tacks on a clearly written later chapter to try and work Obama in somehow but hasn't refreshed its own memory of what the book had said before, plus does a subtitle change from "Politics of Meaning" to "Politics of Change"

edit2: ouch at the first line of the Mises Institute review of LF:
Quote
Jonah Goldberg has ruined what could have been a valuable book.
actually ouch at the whole thing
Quote
It goes on. It is not true that in the notorious Tuskegee syphilis experiment, "poor black men were allegedly infected with syphilis without their knowledge" (p. 261). Rather, men who already had syphilis were deceived into thinking that they were being treated for their illness. Unity Mitford did not "have to leave the country, incensed that Britain would fight such a progressive leader as Hitler" (p. 460 n. 15). At the time war was declared, she was in Germany. She was so despondent that she shot herself in the head, but her suicide attempt failed. She was then sent back to England, where she lived out the war as an invalid. As all-too-often, Goldberg has things backwards.

I have saved the best for last. He says that Napoleon's "victories against the Austro-Hungarian Empire prompted the captive nations of the Hapsburgs to greet him as 'the great liberator.' He beat back the authority of the Catholic Church, crowning himself Holy Roman Emperor…" (p. 41). No, no, Mr. Goldberg. Emperor Francis II, who had meanwhile become Emperor Francis I of Austria, dissolved the Holy Roman Empire in 1806. The Austro-Hungarian Empire did not come into existence until 1867, although of course the Habsburgs ruled over both Austria and Hungary throughout the nineteenth century. Goldberg does somewhat better in the index. There is a listing for "Napoleon I, Emperor of France" (p. 479); but this too is wrong. Napoleon was Emperor of the French: the title is important because Napoleon claimed his power emanated from the French people. He was not the successor to the French territorial kings, as the title Emperor of France would have suggested.

Although Liberal Fascism contains much important information, its many mistakes require that it be used with extreme caution. Jonah Goldberg should acquire a more accurate knowledge of history before he presumes to instruct others.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 07:01:35 PM by benjipwns »

benjipwns

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8458 on: August 21, 2017, 07:04:38 PM »
looked to see if they mentioned his new book but instead came across the same reviewer reviewing D'Souza's book on racism from 1995:
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I have so far described D'Souza's thesis in (I hope) neutral terms. This I have done with great difficulty, and I now cast neutrality to the winds. The book is utterly bad, one of the worst I have read in many years. Its principal arguments fail, but that is the least of its problems. D'Souza's level of inaccuracy and the incompetence of his arguments are staggering.
Quote
In spite of his very negative characterization of many blacks, D'Souza insists that he is not a racist. What better way to show this than to find scholars of note that he can stigmatize as racists, and then condemn them? How then can critics possibly accuse D'Souza of racism? Does he not denounce racists?

The tactic is a clever one, but by this point in his analysis, there is nothing left of the author's credibility. The "racists" he elects to condemn Jared Taylor, Samuel Francis, and Michael Levin are, unlike D'Souza, meticulous journalists and serious scholars of remarkable intelligence. I have been told that D'Souza's account of them had to be amended at the last minute in order to avert legal action, and I regret that the many other thinkers he misrepresents do not have access to the courts. I hope that D'Souza's effort to extend the boundaries of human stupidity does no further damage.
:whew
« Last Edit: August 21, 2017, 07:12:47 PM by benjipwns »

Joe Molotov

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Re: U.S. Politics Discussion Thread |OT| Confederacy of Dunces
« Reply #8459 on: August 21, 2017, 07:17:11 PM »
edit: it sounds like a ten year late knock off of this: (Image removed from quote.)

To be fair to D'Souza, the prison library was a little out of date.
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