US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[Mandark]

American fascism was Jim Crow.

[naff]

Peter Daou speaks truth to power with new article: https://verrit.com/the-frustration-with-bernie-sanders/

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The Frustration With Bernie Sanders – An Explainer

There is a strange and persistent myth that Bernie Sanders didn’t run a negative campaign against Hillary Clinton in 2016. The myth persists because the mainstream media and GOP largely gave him a free pass to attack her. And they did so because his campaign was doing their dirty work, systematically assailing her public image with rightwing talking points.

Because the damage Sanders did helped elect Trump, it is important to create a record of it so Democrats don’t make the same mistake again.

Not A Becky
October 15, 2017 at 1:22 am
Finally somebody writes about this. Thank you. I’ve seen so many people in the media claim that the attacks by Bernie and his male supporters weren’t that big of a deal. It has been a big deal. Many of us were too stunned for a long time to even realize what was happening. They were especially going after feminists & saying things I would never repeat. Once we started fighting back, some started acting like they had no idea where this was coming from & other doubled down even harder. Complete gaslighting.

Liz
October 15, 2017 at 3:05 pm
Yes to all of this. How many female Hillary supporters spent the primary and even general campaign season being harassed endlessly by certain male Bernie supporters?! Not only that, but even the more level-headed Bernie supporters still refuse to admit that they even exist, as though all of us women who got the brunt of their ire are making it all up.

I am terrified that he is going to deliver us a second term of the Trump presidency.

Liz
October 15, 2017 at 3:13 pm
I still don’t understand WHY the Democrats let him run under the party name…has the Democratic party ever explained why on earth they let this happen?

DON'T FORGET:
https://twitter.com/verrit/status/919603254551547904

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[zomgee]

So he created that web site to make a LiveJournal blog post about Bernie Sanders?

[benjipwns]

No, he created that site as part of his long run plan to get himself a one of a kind Hillary Clinton skin suit.

[shosta]

No, he created that site as part of his long run plan to get himself a one of a kind Hillary Clinton skin suit.

You mean like the one Hillary Clinton wears?

[Trent Dole]

Would you fuck Hillary?
Peter Daou'd fuck Hillary.
Peter Daou'd fuck Hillary hard.

[VomKriege]

Not very modest to praise your own article, Jack.

DIAF

- TheBore authentication code 001346

[Great Rumbler]

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/919964265846538240

Obamacare is finished. It's dead. It's gone. You shouldn't even mention it. It's gone. There is no such thing as Obamacare anymore.

[Brehvolution]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/wh-us-households-get-4000-more-year-tax-cuts

The analysis by Kevin Hassett, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said that the considerably lower rate would spur more investment by companies, which would then boost hiring and worker productivity. The average income gains from the reduced rate would range from $4,000 to as high as $9,000, the administration said. Those figures, however, rely on research arguing that workers — rather than investors — would primarily benefit from the lower corporate rates.

How stupid does he think people are?

[Joe Molotov]

Dumb enough to elect Donald Trump.

[Trent Dole]

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/919964265846538240

Obamacare is finished. It's dead. It's gone. You shouldn't even mention it. It's gone. There is no such thing as Obamacare anymore.

On the plus side his brain (and the rest of him) looks like they'll both be joining it shortly
https://twitter.com/superdeluxe/status/919244329041854464

[Brehvolution]

[archie4208]

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/wh-us-households-get-4000-more-year-tax-cuts

The analysis by Kevin Hassett, chairman of the White House Council of Economic Advisers, said that the considerably lower rate would spur more investment by companies, which would then boost hiring and worker productivity. The average income gains from the reduced rate would range from $4,000 to as high as $9,000, the administration said. Those figures, however, rely on research arguing that workers — rather than investors — would primarily benefit from the lower corporate rates.

How stupid does he think people are?

IT'S BACK BABY

[Raist]

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/fourcorners/video/201710/4Cs_Hillary_1610_1000k.mp4

I have no idea why she's not just shutting her mouth and hide

"So do you feel guilty about losing to Donald Trump?"

"Oh I feel teeeeerrible. But you know, at the end of the day I was running against Trump AND the FBI director AND Vladimir Putin"



Off to a great start.

[ToxicAdam]

Not surprising, that's what narcissists do. They blame others for their failings.

[agrajag]

I blame Hydra

[Trent Dole]

Again, she'll be back in '20 and lose the popular vote this time.

[Raist]

Again, she'll be back in '20 and lose the popular vote this time.

To The Rock. That would be fucking epic.

[Mandark]

Virginia governor's race is fun. The GOP candidate, who was meant to be the more centrist, establishment pick (he barely won the primary against an underfunded challenger who ran on preserving Confederate heritage) has been blanketing local TV with ads about how MS-13 is going to kill you if you vote for the Democrat.

It's a definite turnaround from 2013 when Ken Cuccinelli's campaign was all about rebranding him as a moderate (including an ad about him working to overturn the conviction of a black man).

[Phoenix Dark]

Virginia governor's race is fun. The GOP candidate, who was meant to be the more centrist, establishment pick (he barely won the primary against an underfunded challenger who ran on preserving Confederate heritage) has been blanketing local TV with ads about how MS-13 is going to kill you if you vote for the Democrat.

It's a definite turnaround from 2013 when Ken Cuccinelli's campaign was all about rebranding him as a moderate (including an ad about him working to overturn the conviction of a black man).

It's almost like Ben Sasse style conservatism isn't coming back, and Trump style (or Trump-lite) nationalism is the future of the republican party. Who knew 

[Boredfrom]

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/919964265846538240

Obamacare is finished. It's dead. It's gone. You shouldn't even mention it. It's gone. There is no such thing as Obamacare anymore.

Man, he really doesn't understand that people like having a bad healthcare than not having healthcare.

[naff]

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/fourcorners/video/201710/4Cs_Hillary_1610_1000k.mp4

I have no idea why she's not just shutting her mouth and hide

"So do you feel guilty about losing to Donald Trump?"

"Oh I feel teeeeerrible. But you know, at the end of the day I was running against Trump AND the FBI director AND Vladimir Putin"



Off to a great start.

No lies detected in that quote. Useless fucks like you who can't muster a shred of outrage over what was done just makes it more likely that similar tactics will be used to attempt to derail the 2020 nominee (who won't be Hillary).

But maybe don't signal boost stuff from people you'd like to see go away?

HRC and the DNC did a pretty good job of derailing themselves. Outside interference was there, but it was barely necessary.

[Steve Contra]

We should definitely use this moment to talk about Hillary's loss again. I'm not quite sure where everyone stands on it.

[Boredfrom]

It's not a matter of people's stances. It's a matter of looking at quantifiable evidence and being correct, or ignoring quantifiable evidence and being a blithering idiot.

I'd prefer a liberal coalition that didn't do the latter.

Dude, is politics. You are talking like we live in a world where evangelical Christians don't pretend to like Donald Trump

[Mandark]

It's almost like Ben Sasse style conservatism isn't coming back, and Trump style (or Trump-lite) nationalism is the future of the republican party. Who knew 

Remember Dubya's domestic agenda, with a big federal education bill and expansion of Medicare? Remember him getting 40% of Latino voters?

The past is a different country.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Not to be interpreted as any kind of endorsement of Dubya, whose administration was terrible, and who did more damage with the Iraq War than everything Trump's done combined so far.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

So far.

[close]

[close]

[benjipwns]

Has anyone seen Peter Daou and H.A. Goodman in the same room at the same time?

[benjipwns]

Where was Peter Daou when Seth Rich was murdered?

[Joe Molotov]

Why do people think Art Laffer knows fuck all about anything? Genuinely curious.

[Nola]

Why do people think Art Laffer knows fuck all about anything? Genuinely curious.

Makes rich people feel good about taking money from poor people to pay for their tax cuts.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Maybe we could get a filter for Hillary, Hillary Clinton, Clinton, Killdawg, Hilldawg, or anything else similar.

Something like This is Jack's Loser of a Candidate

Maybe ya'll figgurts could stop posting about her from here on out.

You first

[Nola]

And speaking of people past their prime that have inexplicably managed to retain credibility :

[team filler]

We should definitely use this moment to talk about Hillary's loss again. I'm not quite sure where everyone stands on it.

At first I was  then I changed to  from there I moved on to  and now I'm a solid 

[Oblivion]

Why do people think Art Laffer knows fuck all about anything? Genuinely curious.

What I find particularly interesting about that dude is how simple-minded this dude is. I was watching a debate between him and some liberal economist that went on for like an hour, and every time Laffer spoke, all he could say was that tax cuts increase revenue without really providing any numbers whatsoever.  Even massive hacks like Stephen Moore would at least use some bullshit figures in order to sound credible. Laffer can't even do that much. He was on Joy Reid's program the other day, and when he was asked why his brilliant strategy didn't work in Kansas, he didn't even attempt to offer a defense and just said some shit like "Look, we can argue what happened in the past, but now it's time to move forward with new job creating tax cuts".

[Raist]

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/fourcorners/video/201710/4Cs_Hillary_1610_1000k.mp4

I have no idea why she's not just shutting her mouth and hide

"So do you feel guilty about losing to Donald Trump?"

"Oh I feel teeeeerrible. But you know, at the end of the day I was running against Trump AND the FBI director AND Vladimir Putin"



Off to a great start.

No lies detected in that quote. Useless fucks like you who can't muster a shred of outrage over what was done just makes it more likely that similar tactics will be used to attempt to derail the 2020 nominee (who won't be Hillary).

But maybe don't signal boost stuff from people you'd like to see go away?

Look Y2Kev, if it was that easy and you could sway the american voters with just a bunch of tweets and whatnot, it would have been really easy for Hilldawg and the DNC to pull a Jeb and paint the electoral map blue. So if her assessment is valid, that's even more of a failure on her part.

[shosta]

Jack needs a massage.

[Mandark]

From other races in Virginia:

[Joe Molotov]

Why are they so scared of people buying guns?

[Mandark]

Also today: Rand Paul endorsed Roy Moore.

[Raist]

Is it me or "Then they and even criminals will have the ID they need to buy a gun" sounds weird?

[Rufus]

Yeah, missing the "legally."

But seriously, don't quite understand the "even criminals" bit. Criminals already can get ahold of weapons. Isn't that also a talking point in favour of "good guys with guns"?

[seagrams hotsauce]

Hey Jack guess what

[Joe Molotov]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/trump-uses-john-kellys-dead-son-to-bash-obama

Dude, like wtf tho? 

[Raist]

http://mpegmedia.abc.net.au/news/fourcorners/video/201710/4Cs_Hillary_1610_1000k.mp4

I have no idea why she's not just shutting her mouth and hide

"So do you feel guilty about losing to Donald Trump?"

"Oh I feel teeeeerrible. But you know, at the end of the day I was running against Trump AND the FBI director AND Vladimir Putin"



Off to a great start.

No lies detected in that quote. Useless fucks like you who can't muster a shred of outrage over what was done just makes it more likely that similar tactics will be used to attempt to derail the 2020 nominee (who won't be Hillary).

But maybe don't signal boost stuff from people you'd like to see go away?

Herp derp, I have deliberately avoided learning a goddamn thing about what went down in 2016 because I'd prefer living in my cognitive bubble of schadenfreude.

Should have just posted this instead. Would have gotten to the point much more directly.

For the sake of the thread and Steve Contra, I'll just throw you on ignore and stop replying to your derp posts.

Please don't, your rage sustains me 

[benjipwns]

You don't need a US driver's license to board a plane

BUT YOU COULD BOARD A PLANE WITH ONE

HERE ARE SOME OTHER THINGS YOU COULD DO WITH A DRIVERS LICENSE:
-HAVE PRE-MARTIAL SEX
-USE AN ATM
-LISTEN TO THE "DAOU OF POLITICS" PODCAST
-BUY GROCERIES
-MOW A LAWN
-PRAY AT A MOSQUE
-EAT AT ARBY'S
-PLAY NIGHT TRAP ON THE SEGA CD
-ENTER A LOCAL BUILDING OR FACILITY
-ENTER SOMEONE ELSE'S HOME
-SERVE AS PRESIDENT
-ORCHESTRATE A FALSE FLAG TERRORIST ATTACK IN ORDER TO COVER UP THE DEMOLITION OF A BUILDING IN A COMPLEX REAL-ESTATE SCHEME TO MANIPULATE LOCAL PRICES AND EVENTUALLY BUILD A MOSQUE DOWN THE STREET FROM THE SITE OF THE "TERRORIST" ATTACK

VOTE NO ON NOVEMBER 7TH BY VOTING FOR THE OTHER CANDIDATE* SINCE IT'S NOT A RETENTION ELECTION

*WHO WE CANNOT NAME AND NEVER MET OR EVEN KNOW EXISTS

[seagrams hotsauce]

whoops

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/919721403573776384
https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/920381240922034179

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/920418839178989569

NEXT EPISODE: https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/920434817732194304

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/919727158226051072

[close]

[Raist]

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/919721403573776384
https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/920381240922034179

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/920418839178989569

NEXT EPISODE: https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/920434817732194304

spoiler (click to show/hide)

https://twitter.com/peterdaou/status/919727158226051072

[close]

I give it 6 months tops until stuff about him being a creep comes up.

[benjipwns]

I give it 6 months tops until stuff about him being a creep comes up.

FACT CHECK: He has a loving and supportive and brilliant wife unlike male haters like yourself who want to corner him and be sexually violent to him for speaking out against powerful men.
https://twitter.com/leeladaou/status/919359201905868802
https://twitter.com/leeladaou/status/919371468605190144
https://twitter.com/leeladaou/status/920252972747120640

[Nola]

I don’t know how long until people get tired of re-litigating the primary, but that husband/wife duo that post like they were birthed from a poliGAF thread, certainly look poised to try and see just how long they can keep monetizing it.

[Nola]

I don’t know how long until people get tired of re-litigating the primary, but that husband/wife duo that post like they were birthed from a poliGAF thread, certainly look poised to try and see just how long they can keep monetizing it.

None of this has anything to do with the primary.

Edit: I guess the Women's Convention thing is tangentially connected because of the controversy.

Primary might not encompass enough, you are right, its playing to the "Yass Queen" tribe and the purity testers.

A lot of shit is true, but it is the sort of smug abrasiveness that is only going to resonate with a certain crowd, it certainly isn't the sort of stuff that is productive, persuasive and tends to do more to divide than mobilize.

[benjipwns]

We already get enough of Jack posting about Hillary in these threads, do we really need to post his tweets about Hillary, too?

That's soon to be President-elect Hillary Clinton kiddo: http://www.newsweek.com/hillary-clinton-president-lawrence-lessig-post-686077

HOW HILLARY CLINTON STILL CAN, AND SHOULD, BECOME PRESIDENT AFTER THE TRUMP-RUSSIA INVESTIGATION

...

Here's how constitutional law expert Lessig lays it out:

If number 1: If Trump is definitively found to have colluded directly with Russia, he would be forced to resign or be impeached.

If number 2: If Trump is removed, Vice President Mike Pence would become president.

If number 3: If Pence becomes president, he should resign too, given that he benefited from the same help from Mother Russia.

If number 4: If Pence resigns before appointing a vice president, Ryan would become president.

If number 5: If Ryan becomes president, he should do the right thing and choose Clinton for vice president. Then he should resign.

"The answer seems unavoidable: He should nominate the person defeated by the treason of his own party, and then step aside and let her become the president," Lessig writes.

https://medium.com/@lessig/on-what-should-happen-if-the-unthinkable-happens-b6915cbc543d

Without doubt, if Ryan did the right thing, that would be the most extraordinary event in the history of America since the Confederate Army fired on Fort Sumter. But unlike that, this event would build the union, not divide it. And if he did it, then Clinton should embrace the spirit of cross partisan decency and nominate Ryan, or a Republican, as her Vice President. At least for the balance of her first term, the frame of adults-behaving-like-adults could live.

[Mandark]

Larry Lessig ran the goofiest presidential campaign, on the premise that he'd enact one law then immediately resign. Not shocking that he's writing fanfiction.

[Raist]

Fucking hell those tweets from the Daou Dynamic Duo read like some cult shit
Are they scientologists?


edit: http://www.newsweek.com/fbi-kept-russian-bribery-plot-under-wraps-obama-approved-nuclear-deal-moscow-686660

FBI agents also gathered documents and a witness account that Russian officials routed millions of dollars to ex-President Bill Clinton’s charitable foundation while Secretary of State Hillary Clinton sat on a committee that gave a nod to the dealings with Moscow.

[benjipwns]

Hey kiddos, that's "Constitutional Law Expert" Lawrence Lessig, not some wackadoo on the internet who comes up with crazy constitutional arguments let alone fan faction just to post on medium.

He files his in court.

Now Lessig is the litigation strategist for Equal Votes, which seeks to use an ambitious lawsuit to tweak the electoral college, the constitutional mechanism by which the U.S. elects its presidents. And this campaign just might work.

...

Equal Votes argues that the “winner takes all” requirement in 48 states effectively disenfranchises millions of Americans, violating the U.S. Constitution’s “one person, one vote” principle. It also means that voters in the handful of states that are more or less evenly divided between Democrats and Republicans -- the famous “battleground states” -- get a greater say in presidential elections. Candidates spend much more time there; the concerns of battleground-state voters receive more attention.

Lessig and the other reformers behind Equal Votes say presidential candidates’ focus on battleground states unfairly tilts the national political agenda. Those states “are substantially different from the United States as a whole,” the group writes on its website. “They are older, and they are whiter. Winner-take-all effectively outsources the selection of our president to a subset of America -- a subset that does not truly or accurately represent America.”

...

Equal Votes, however, argues that the true problem is not that small-state residents get more bang for their votes. It’s that large numbers of voters in many states get no bang at all.

...

Equal Votes insists it’s on firm legal ground and can actually win in court.

“We have identified voters who are perpetually effectively disenfranchised by this system, and we will present their claim that they have been denied representation in presidential elections for decades because of winner-take-all,” Equal Votes states.

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/tribelaw/status/920070690153345024

 

[shosta]

Reading that post the other day about the popularity of fascism reminded me of what George Orwell had to say about James Burnham, his contemporary who predicted the superior model of managerial authoritarian government would envelop the Earth and was ironically awarded the presidential medal of freedom for it by Ronald Reagan.

It will be seen that Burnham's predictions have not merely, when they were verifiable, turned out to be wrong, but that they have sometimes contradicted one another in a sensational way. It is this last fact that is significant. Political predictions are usually wrong, because they are usually based on wish-thinking, but they can have symptomatic value, especially when they change abruptly. Often the revealing factor is the date at which they are made. ... In the supplementary note added to the English edition of the book, Burnham appears to assume that the USSR is already beaten and the splitting-up process is about to begin. This was published in the spring of 1942 and presumably written at the end of 1941; i. e. when the Germans were in the suburbs of Moscow.
The prediction that Russia would gang up with Japan against the USA was written early in 1944, soon after the conclusion of a new Russo-Japanese treaty.
The prophecy of Russian world conquest was written in the winter of 1944, when the Russians were advancing rapidly in eastern Europe while the Western Allies were still held up in Italy and northern France.
It will be seen that at each point Burnham is predicting a continuation of the thing that is happening. Now the tendency to do this is not simply a bad habit, like inaccuracy or exaggeration, which one can correct by taking thought. It is a major mental disease, and its roots lie partly in cowardice and partly in the worship of power, which is not fully separable from cowardice.

But wait till you see what he has to say about Americans

The mistakes I have pointed out do not disprove Burnham's theory, but they do cast light on his probable reasons for holding it. In this connection one cannot leave out of account the fact that Burnham is an American. Every political theory has a certain regional tinge about it, and every nation, every culture, has its own characteristic prejudices and patches of ignorance. There are certain problems that must almost inevitably be seen in a different perspective according to the geographical situation from which one is looking at them. Now, the attitude that Burnham adopts, of classifying Communism and Fascism as much the same thing, and at the same time accepting both of them — or, at any rate, not assuming that either must be violently struggled against — is essentially an American attitude, and would be almost impossible for an Englishman or any other western European. English writers who consider Communism and Fascism to be the same thing invariably hold that both are monstrous evils which must be fought to the death: on the other hand, any Englishman who believes Communism and Fascism to be opposites will feel that he ought to side with one or the other.(3) The reason for this difference of outlook is simple enough and, as usual, is bound up with wish-thinking. If totalitarianism triumphs and the dreams of the geopoliticians come true, Britain will disappear as a world power and the whole of western Europe will be swallowed by some single great state. This is not a prospect that it is easy for an Englishman to contemplate with detachment. Either he does not want Britain to disappear — in which case he will tend to construct theories proving the thing that he wants-or, like a minority of intellectuals, he will decide that his country is finished and transfer his allegiance to some foreign power. An American does not have to make the same choice. Whatever happens, the United States will survive as a great power, and from the American point of view it does not make much difference whether Europe is dominated by Russia or by Germany. Most Americans who think of the matter at all would prefer to see the world divided between two or three monster states which had reached their natural boundaries and could bargain with one another on economic issues without being troubled by ideological differences. Such a world-picture fits in with the American tendency to admire size for its own sake and to feel that success constitutes justification, and it fits in with the all-prevailing anti-British sentiment. In practice, Britain and the United States have twice been forced into alliance against Germany, and will probably, before long, be forced into alliance against Russia: but, subjectively, a majority of Americans would prefer either Russia or Germany to Britain, and, as between Russia and Germany, would prefer whichever seemed stronger at the moment.(4) It is, therefore, not surprising that Burnham's world-view should often be noticeably close to that of the American imperialists on the one side, or to that of the isolationists on the other. It is a ‘tough’ or ‘realistic’ worldview which fits in with the American form of wish-thinking. The almost open admiration for Nazi methods which Burnham shows in the earlier of his two books, and which would seem shocking to almost any English reader, depends ultimately on the fact that the Atlantic is wider than the Channel.

Hmmm...

[Nola]

Trump offered a grieving military father $25,000 in a call, but didn’t follow through

In his call with Trump, Baldridge, a construction worker, expressed frustration with the military’s survivor benefits program. Because his ex-wife was listed as their son’s beneficiary, she was expected to receive the Pentagon’s $100,000 death gratuity — even though “I can barely rub two nickels together,” he told Trump.

The president’s response shocked him.

“He said, ‘I’m going to write you a check out of my personal account for $25,000,’ and I was just floored,” Baldridge said. “I could not believe he was saying that, and I wish I had it recorded because the man did say this. He said, ‘No other president has ever done something like this,’ but he said, ‘I’m going to do it.’ “

“I opened it up and read it, and I was hoping to see a check in there, to be honest,” the father said. “I know it was kind of far-fetched thinking. But I was like, ‘Damn, no check.’ Just a letter saying ‘I’m sorry

This may the perfect distillation of the Trump presidency(or maybe just Trump in general).

[benjipwns]

Remember that whole Piketty book everyone not from France got excited about for a few months and then Jacobin trashed its central r>g premise, while some other people questioned the data, and then everyone forgot about it because it was Hillary-time. New paper out from Richard Sutch where he actually states that he does not intend for the paper to "question Piketty's integrity" and then more or less says all the data is trash and unable to be reproduced. (Though he concludes that Piketty probably undersold the rise in inequality.)

Trump's leadership yet again debunking politicized junk science promoted by Democrats.

[benjipwns]

my mistake, it was in Dissent, by son of Galbraith: https://www.dissentmagazine.org/article/kapital-for-the-twenty-first-century

after the hacks got out of the way and people actually read the thing a whole bunch of other people across the economics field spectrum took issue with it (and all sorts of other parts...much like in France), even Piketty said it wasn't a useful measure in most ways which raises questions about writing a 700 page book based on it

but can't fault it i suppose

he even sold the film rights to the book

[benjipwns]

when PoliGAF was pushing the book as the most important thing ever and there was an OT and so on, i was reading through it (seemingly the only one it felt like) and i mentioned in a thread the historiography of the one part was terrible because it didn't make any sense (not to mention didn't even need to be in the book for his argument, it was just that page padding) some guy jumped all over me for denying the economic FACTS, then when i questioned him about the argument he claimed it meant something else, then he eventually admitted he hadn't even seen the book and was hoping to get it via books on tape or something

why did i ever post there other to annoy you Jack

reminds me of the PATRIOT'S HISTORY book conservatives were pushing against Zinn's PEOPLE'S HISTORY...that was when i finally realized you aren't supposed to read these books, just buy them in bulk