US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP

[TakingBackSunday]

Maddow jumped the shark

[Dennis]

[team filler]

https://www.facebook.com/PeopleForBernie/videos/1207608756004706/

[benjipwns]

keep winning democrats:

[benjipwns]

omg

[benjipwns]

18part tweet about why this is important from HuffPo columnist:
https://twitter.com/SethAbramson/status/841833971700899841

[zomgee]

oh here come the tweetsplainers

 

[Phoenix Dark]

So anyways, back to the ACA repeal.

I get that FUD against any source of embarrassing information is pretty much automatic for the GOP, but even so the attacks on the ACA feel goofy.

They're repealing rules which mandate health insurance and slashing funding to subsidize that coverage. That's pretty explicitly designed to push people away from health insurance, no?

Or as Ryan says, if you want it you can get it 

The more I look at the plan the more it looks like little more than tax cuts for the rich being sold as "health care." This seems like the entire conservative wing throwing up their hands and admitting no, they don't have any ideas on how to address healthcare. Poor, old...poor and old? Too bad, this isn't for you. And of course block granting Medicaid ensures it gets shitcanned. Public health, drug addiction help, community centers get shitcanned too. Thankfully this shit isn't going to pass.

So do democrats grow some balls and just say hey, why don't we just raise the Medicaid expansion income limit to include "middle class" people, increase hospital reimbursement rates, and change the name from Medicaid to something else in order to kill the stigma.

[benjipwns]

Medicade makes it sound like a dirty and dark arcade tucked into the corner of the mall.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

he says as if there's any other kind of mall-located arcade

[close]

[benjipwns]

how did i miss this, why didn't they poll this for a decade except when osama got "killed"?

[Kara]

38 on 150 is pretty awful, especially for someone whose schtick is how much of a savvy businessman they are. Apparently the president selects his tax preparers like he does his executive agency heads (without any review).

spoiler (click to show/hide)

hmu Mr. President

[close]

[Nola]

So anyways, back to the ACA repeal.

I get that FUD against any source of embarrassing information is pretty much automatic for the GOP, but even so the attacks on the ACA feel goofy.

They're repealing rules which mandate health insurance and slashing funding to subsidize that coverage. That's pretty explicitly designed to push people away from health insurance, no?

One of my biggest annoyances right now is pretty much this very thing.

On the one hand you have Ryan/Trump/GOP claiming if they don't do anything Obamacare will collapse completely. Setting aside the CBO, Kaiser, and numerous other places disputing that, how the fuck does that square with them passing a bill that relies on the functioning of those exchanges to work?

 Since in addition to that, all the complaints they have leveled at the ACA for why it is collapsing or failing, are not actually improved by this bill. In many cases, it makes them worse.

[Rufus]

Is it just that CIA jurisdiction is different than NSA with regards to spying on citizens? Of course I'm sure all the intelligence agencies share those same tools.

With the NSA, the issue is that they're collecting pretty much everything from everyone. This CIA thing is just a look at their tool belt. The juicy ones being assassination methods (compromising cars that are drive by wire) and a department (?) specializing in profiling and impersonating known hackers. Hm...

[benjipwns]

I'll try to offhand piece this together in regards to the John Oliver thing, but do so poorly and inaccurately. The DIA and CIA are in theory concerned with human intelligence (legally, foreign), the NSA is concerned with information/data/signal intelligence. Again, technically legally only "foreign" intelligence.

Traditionally the "loophole" was that they had to have only one foot in the U.S., i.e. someone here talking to someone there. The NSA realized this was a waste of time and just decided to hoover up everything in sight and figure it out later. Which is why they got caught.

The DIA and CIA have goals that are outside simple data collection and spent years on building relationships and so on, the NSA has been organized and worked in a such a way that they've never got past that data collection step so their spying is considered often almost functionally useless. You go "I need to know about this thing in placename, Russia", the CIA talks to some people and comes back "they think it's bullshit", the NSA dumps fifty gigabytes of everything a search turned up "placename, Russia" in on you.

ECHELON is rumored to have accomplished essentially nothing it was set out to do but wound up doing all sorts of other shit: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

Also, like everything else, the FBI, CIA, DIA and NSA all have turf wars so there's endless redundancy and it's not difficult for an administration to get the intelligence it wants to see. Which is a funny lesson nobody seems to ever recall about the [insert fuckup here] the agencies played along until it was time to turn on the administration.

The advantage to the average American of the CIA is that they've been publicly burned before by the Congress, so they tended to be much more careful about staying within certain boundaries in the years after the Church Committee. The War on Terror started to reverse that. Protecting us.

The NSA not only got less than a slap on the wrist, but the DNI directly lied to Congress and kept his job. (Snowden claims this is why he whistleblew.)

[agrajag]

So anyways, back to the ACA repeal.

I get that FUD against any source of embarrassing information is pretty much automatic for the GOP, but even so the attacks on the ACA feel goofy.

They're repealing rules which mandate health insurance and slashing funding to subsidize that coverage. That's pretty explicitly designed to push people away from health insurance, no?

One of my biggest annoyances right now is pretty much this very thing.

On the one hand you have Ryan/Trump/GOP claiming if they don't do anything Obamacare will collapse completely. Setting aside the CBO, Kaiser, and numerous other places disputing that, how the fuck does that square with them passing a bill that relies on the functioning of those exchanges to work?

 Since in addition to that, all the complaints they have leveled at the ACA for why it is collapsing or failing, are not actually improved by this bill. In many cases, it makes them worse.

But it will give people choices! CHOICES! And being able to buy insurance across state lines! And the invisible hand of the free market will make healthcare affordable for all, and people will shit rainbows and there will be fountains of gold.

[benjipwns]

We have a couple regulars who know way more and can correct my post but I hope I got the jist of it mostly right for the questions asked. CIA/NSA covers different types of intelligence, CIA has actual goals to where it cooperates with "enemies" depending on them, the NSA more or less has just existed to collect data with no clear end goal. (Either because it never got one, or it's shifted from the Soviets to rogue states to terrorism to who knows.)

I'd say Oliver puts too much faith in the whole "the law says the CIA can't do this!" But then again, I obviously would say that.

[benjipwns]

For the record, since I know you're all wondering, the DIA is the one I trust the least. Either because I expect incompetence (NSA), disinterest (CIA) or legal rigidity (FBI) to protect me and Kara from them.

Also, the DIA seems to do everything the creepiest way they can. The Father Mike of intelligence agencies.

[agrajag]

Seems to me that CIA is the one that tends to bend the rules the most, due to its very nature. Any reading material on the function of all of these agencies?

[Trent Dole]

oh here come the tweetsplainers

 

TIME TO PLAY THE GAME theory.

[Kara]

For the record, since I know you're all wondering, the DIA is the one I trust the least. Either because I expect incompetence (NSA), disinterest (CIA) or legal rigidity (FBI) to protect me and Kara from them.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Too soon?

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Well yeah, literally, neither of us are dead.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Yet.

[close]

[close]

[close]

[Nola]

So anyways, back to the ACA repeal.

I get that FUD against any source of embarrassing information is pretty much automatic for the GOP, but even so the attacks on the ACA feel goofy.

They're repealing rules which mandate health insurance and slashing funding to subsidize that coverage. That's pretty explicitly designed to push people away from health insurance, no?

One of my biggest annoyances right now is pretty much this very thing.

On the one hand you have Ryan/Trump/GOP claiming if they don't do anything Obamacare will collapse completely. Setting aside the CBO, Kaiser, and numerous other places disputing that, how the fuck does that square with them passing a bill that relies on the functioning of those exchanges to work?

 Since in addition to that, all the complaints they have leveled at the ACA for why it is collapsing or failing, are not actually improved by this bill. In many cases, it makes them worse.

But it will give people choices! CHOICES! And being able to buy insurance across state lines! And the invisible hand of the free market will make healthcare affordable for all, and people will shit rainbows and there will be fountains of gold.

The greatest con Republicans have ever pulled off is convincing their followers, and eventually themselves, that the ideal solution to every market problem is always less government and getting private industry more involved.

[VomKriege]

The latest FP podcast is 

US military efforts creeping up everywhere without any clear indication at whom behest and for which strategy. Rex Tillerson MIA and the State Department out of the loop for the visit of the Mexican Foreign Minister. No real reaction to the recent North Korean outburst. Rumors that President Trump is basically "directing" foreign policy over dinner with the core WH staff...

Also despite Trump documented mistrust of jobs statistics, Spicer would like to please accept them at face value now ?

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/841966077005463553

[benjipwns]

Fox News presents the World's Shittiest Humble Brag:

[benjipwns]

The "Godfather of Trumpmania," Michael Savage, examines the initial appointments, speeches, tweets and history of Donald Trump and offers his insights and analysis. The man many consider to be the determining factor in driving Trump over the finish line by motivating millions of undecideds and the "Deplorables," who would have otherwise sat out the election, provides a crucial first look at the early direction of the Trump presidency.

Savage has waged a twenty-five year war on the radio to save America's borders, language and culture from a progressive onslaught that is already turning Europe into a socialist, multiculturalist nightmare, where violent gangs of radical Islamic refugees terrorize defenseless citizens on a daily basis.

While most in the chattering classes around the world dismissed Trump's campaign, conservative radio icon Dr. Michael Savage championed Trump's platform and helped him galvanize the support of disaffected middle Americans left behind by the globalist central planners in their distant capitol.

Savage's army of listeners on The Savage Nation was instrumental in electing Donald Trump to take the fight to Washington. But electoral victory was only the beginning. Trump now has an even bigger challenge in delivering on the promises he made to millions of American voters.

He faces relentless opposition from special interests in both parties who stand to lose trillions if Trump's America First policies become the law of the land.

Dr. Michael Savage has been on the front line of this fight for decades and knows what Trump and his administration are up against. He lays out a path to victory for the new, conservative American revolutionaries in Trump's War.

[daemon]

The anti-Trump journos need to hire Kazuhira Miller so they stop being played like a fiddle.

[Phoenix Dark]

Looks like I'll have to stop saying Lane Kiffin is the king of "falling up" and replace him with Paul Ryan. At least Kiffin has accomplished some things (championships, banging coeds).

Lane Kiffin : Al Davis :: Paul Ryan : Donald Trump

This would explain Trump's obsession with Obama, who is 6'2, about 200 pounds and runs at least a 4.20.

[benjipwns]

finally, we're back to real politics:
http://www.politico.com/story/2017/03/omalley-iowa-2020-236063

O'Malley tests 2020 waters with Iowa poll
By GABRIEL DEBENEDETTI 03/15/17 06:00 AM EDT

Donald Trump is only in his second month in the White House, but already one Democrat is polling his party's Iowa caucus-goers ahead of a possible 2020 run for the presidency.

The leadership PAC of former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley commissioned a Public Policy Polling survey of the first-in-the-nation caucus state earlier this month, according to a copy of the results obtained by POLITICO.

The poll, which shows O’Malley at 18 percent of Democratic caucus-goers in a field of nine potential candidates if the contest were held today, also asked the Iowans about New Jersey Sen. Cory Booker; former Secretary of Housing and Urban Development Julián Castro; New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo; Sens. Kirsten Gillibrand of New York, Kamala Harris of California and Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota; Facebook COO Sheryl Sandberg; and Starbucks CEO Howard Schultz. “Not sure” got 32 percent of the vote.

O’Malley — who ran against Hillary Clinton and Bernie Sanders for the 2016 nomination before dropping out on caucus night after earning less than 1 percent of the vote — was joined at the top of the poll by Booker, who was at 17 percent. Klobuchar, who represents a neighboring state and who's been a frequent visitor to Iowa over the years, got 11 percent. All other candidates were under 10 percent.

[benjipwns]

runs at least a 4.20.

  he can't even lose Joe

[Kara]

Fox News presents the World's Shittiest Humble Brag:
(Image removed from quote.)

THE AMOUNT OF TAX YOU PAY ON YOUR GROSS INCOME ISN'T YOUR TAX RATE

YOUR NET OPERATING LOSS GOES AGAINST YOUR GROSS INCOME ON TOP OF THAT

WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES

YOU'RE KILLING ME LARRY

[zomgee]

THE AMOUNT OF TAX YOU PAY ON YOUR GROSS INCOME ISN'T YOUR TAX RATE

YOUR NET OPERATING LOSS GOES AGAINST YOUR GROSS INCOME ON TOP OF THAT

WHERE ARE MY SEDATIVES

YOU'RE KILLING ME LARRY

Yeah, but it makes for such an easy Facebook post.

[agrajag]

lol Maddow

The nothingburger that was Trump's 1040 form from 2005 should've been a five minute segment at most.

[FStop7]

Edward R. Murrow spinning in his grave at the current state of journalism. 

[Boredfrom]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/841966077005463553

lol even when it benefits him...

[Kara]

lol Maddow

The nothingburger that was Trump's 1040 form from 2005 should've been a five minute segment at most.

Well it's not nothing (will try to give a #HotTake on it eventually), but if you were expecting the reporting of Russian bribes on an individual tax return you probably think too much of other people.

[agrajag]

I wasn't expecting anything 

[VomKriege]

Not to exonerate Maddow but there's clearly a sense that some people expect :

- A smoking gun
- With a paper trail
- That would end the administration overnight

[agrajag]

Not to exonerate Maddow but there's clearly a sense that some people expect :

- A smoking gun
- With a paper trail
- That would end the administration overnight

And she totally fed their delusions with her 30 minute "context" build up.

[Mandark]

This seems like the entire conservative wing throwing up their hands and admitting no, they don't have any ideas on how to address healthcare.

There just isn't a solution that stays true to conservative-libertarian beliefs while also making sure people can get health care without being bankrupted.

Even so, it's impressive how badly this has been handled. Specifically, how does the GOP, as reliant on older voters as it is, create something that is so unfavorable to 50-64 year olds and gets the AARP lined up against them? It might still get passed out of desperation to avoid an L, but feels pretty amateurish so far.

[agrajag]

They're in a lose lose situation with the health bill. If it passes, they will seriously fuck shit up for a lot of their constituents. If it doesn't pass, they look like incompetent losers. Actually, if anything, it's better for the GOP if it doesn't pass. That way they can blame Democratic obstructionism and claim that the bill would have worked.

[Great Rumbler]

Second travel ban just got blocked nationwide:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/federal-judge-just-blocked-trumps-revised-travel-ban-nationwide

[TakingBackSunday]

Meanwhile Trump is like three miles away from me and I can smell the sulfur

[Madrun Badrun]

Meanwhile Trump is like three miles away from me and I can smell the sulfur

You making a bomb?  forwarding to FBI...NY office

[Boredfrom]

Second travel ban just got blocked nationwide:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/federal-judge-just-blocked-trumps-revised-travel-ban-nationwide

Bitching about this in his rally will not help his case. Trump is truly a dumbass.

[Joe Molotov]

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/status/842154802058543105

Real recognize real.

[Trent Dole]

Can we basically confirm with the second ban getting sacked that these people have no idea wtf they're doing? I kind of figured the first was a trial balloon for what they could get away with and then the revised one would stick but looks like no.

[PlayDat]

I like Maddow (as a personality, it’s been years since I tuned in regularly).  The way she handled the tax info is typical of her.

Surprised this post-election night gem hasn’t been quoted yet.

"Do you see this tear? It came from my left eye. Now I want you to look at this photo...yes, it's of a movie film reel. Well the film I'm going to talk to you about is not that, exactly. It's called the precorneal film. It covers your eyes and makes you, well, cry. That's what my left eye is doing right now. So the question you're probably asking yourself is, where did this tear come from? I want you to look at this photo. It may look like abstract art but in actuality it is...you guessed it, the Lacrimal apparatus. It's where tears are manufactured, including the one from my left eye. Why does this matter? I'll tell you after the break."

I don’t think she needed to present it that way to hold the audience’s attention.  Her ratings have been through the roof lately.  It was a good idea to devote most of her program to giving context (though I would’ve switched the order so the meat comes first).  A significant portion of her current viewers weren’t paying enough attention to politics over the past 8 years.  People are going back to left-wing cable news and comedy in a big way.  I wish liberals would remain as critical of the federal government in times when Democrats have control.  “Extremist” ideas like racial and economic equality might actually become mainstream.

I do think the little we’ve seen is a bad sign for Trump.  It doesn’t seem farfetched to me to believe he has something to hide whether it relates to Russia or general tax evasive fuckery.  If the rest of his taxes are so innocuous then why not just release them so Democrats have one less thing to hold against him?

[Nola]

Can we basically confirm with the second ban getting sacked that these people have no idea wtf they're doing? I kind of figured the first was a trial balloon for what they could get away with and then the revised one would stick but looks like no.

Oh to be a microwave in The West Wing right about now....

[VomKriege]

Can we basically confirm with the second ban getting sacked that these people have no idea wtf they're doing? I kind of figured the first was a trial balloon for what they could get away with and then the revised one would stick but looks like no.

I think it's safe to say it now, yes. There's no master plan, just a bunch of people unfamiliar and uninterested in governing the proper way at the top with a poor grasp on the institutional balance and interplay. Not to mention driven by some extreme ideas and possibly somewhat in bed with a foreign power.

If the rest of his taxes are so innocuous then why not just release them so Democrats have one less thing to hold against him?

Trump was documented as being super ego-sensitive on the matter of his wealth and his claims of bigly richness are part of his name recognition and thus his brand. I could see why he wouldn't release it regardless of contents (though yeah you'd probably find some dubious tax fuckery if you dug enough, he's a multimillionaire after all).

[benjipwns]

PD he stealin your bits like amy schumer:

[Phoenix Dark]

Second travel ban just got blocked nationwide:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/03/federal-judge-just-blocked-trumps-revised-travel-ban-nationwide

Bitching about this in his rally will not help his case. Trump is truly a dumbass.

Was it bitching? Seemed more like snitching. Stephen Miller made similar comments recently about the new EO having the same intent as the old old. It's almost like these guys revamped Bush era bravado and made it dumber.

[benjipwns]

You don't have to be a ninth-dimensional chess master to realize that tossing out orders that you know will get swatted down lets you look like you're doing something but being obstructed by those dang activist judges, especially when you can't get anything through Congress. Wouldn't be the first administration. This decade. That's Republican.

[benjipwns]

A real chessmaster plan would be doing it in order to get a circuit split and make the immigration and Supreme Court nomination into one big fight that completely destroys the planet.

[benjipwns]

Then Trump tweets something about how Sotomayor has to recuse herself from the case.

[daemon]

^benji tweeting posts.

Can we basically confirm with the second ban getting sacked that these people have no idea wtf they're doing? I kind of figured the first was a trial balloon for what they could get away with and then the revised one would stick but looks like no.

actually, it could be the opposite, although it's quite probably what you say.

You put your entire wishlist and keep taking out one wish at a time. Eventually it gets through.

PD he stealin your bits like amy schumer:

the handwaving around 0:50 killed me.

I do think the little we’ve seen is a bad sign for Trump.  It doesn’t seem farfetched to me to believe he has something to hide whether it relates to Russia or general tax evasive fuckery. If the rest of his taxes are so innocuous then why not just release them so Democrats have one less thing to hold against him?

Because that way they will spend time finding possibly nothing. It's like saying, in a poker hand, why don't you show your pocket aces? people would believe your all-in. That's the point, you want them to make the call.

[Kara]

If the rest of his taxes are so innocuous then why not just release them so Democrats have one less thing to hold against him?

I don't think he wants anyone to see his Schedules E (for a few reasons).

[toku]

https://twitter.com/MikeGrunwald/status/842366659302199298

[Nola]

Focusing more on space is pretty wise. It shows a lot more foresight and long-term vision then I had come to expect from this administration.

Recognizing, rightly so, that investing in other planets is gonna be more important then ever if we keep electing Trumps all over the world.

[Mandark]

https://twitter.com/maggieNYT/status/842377879216394240

I'd imagine pretty much every president gets frustrated at how slow things are and how little direct power they have, but man...

[Brehvolution]

Focusing more on space is pretty wise. It shows a lot more foresight and long-term vision then I had come to expect from this administration.

Recognizing, rightly so, that investing in other planets is gonna be more important then ever if we keep electing Trumps all over the world.

The fossil fuel industry needs a new planet to mine. They just don't want to pay for the exploration.