Celebrity Sexual Harasment Apocalypse Thread

[Great Rumbler]

[benjipwns]

i watched that a couple times, it's interesting from both a Norm and Jerry standpoint as a little nugget...relating it back to the video with Jerry, Chris Rock, Louis CK and Gervais where they discuss all the nuts and bolts comedy stuff

  warning

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Jerry's renowned for being a master at understanding joke structure so he just sorta skips past Norm's setups almost unintentionally and then he also realizes where Norm's going with the last joke as he's telling it. usually people are laughing through Norm doing all that, so it slows down his delivery which he milks, but he gets that Jerry doesn't need it, so he's telling his jokes like ten times faster than he normally does and in a less roundabout way because he knows Jerry likes the simple setup-punchline structure but Jerry also knows Norm doesn't really need the responses so he only has to give him back little bits to keep it all going

there was one of the other comedians in cars episodes where Jerry seems endlessly frustrated at the dude's personality/style/method and is almost pouting through it, some others he does a lot of interjecting and talking to (he thinks) prop up the person, and there's the Obama one where Jerry has to do a lot of friendly laughter and you can tell he's terrible at it

i think that's why a lot of them are so bad and boring, there was an article recently from somewhere lamenting it all and blaming it on Jerry being rich/successful or whatever so it's unrelatable but i've always thought it's more that Jerry's style just doesn't work with most of the comedians/guests, so it falls back on boring stuff or overanalysis of the cars for some reason, if he doesn't have guys like Larry David or Norm who seem to fit together with him naturally...or at least someone Jerry respects/fears like Don Rickles, Lorne Michaels or Julia Louis-Dreyfus

[close]

[curly]

what is with that music

[Momo]

What's the latest on Chloe from Smallville?

[Joe Molotov]

What's the latest on Chloe from Smallville?

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2018/may/01/newly-press/smallville-actress-didnt-confess-selling-children-/

[Momo]

 

[Joe Molotov]

Maybe this is more to your liking.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2018/05/02/tv-stars-allison-mack-and-nicki-clyne-married-on-orders-from-cult-leader-keith-raniere-source-says.html

[Momo]

No, not like this

[Beezy]

Welp... Junot Diaz is up next.

[shosta]

“Sometimes, he’d tell me to call him Master, and he’d slap me until I did.” Selvaratnam, who was born in Sri Lanka, has dark skin, and she recalls that “he started calling me his ‘brown slave’ and demanding that I repeat that I was ‘his property.’ ”

problematic

[Joe Molotov]

“Sometimes, he’d tell me to call him Master, and he’d slap me until I did.” Selvaratnam, who was born in Sri Lanka, has dark skin, and she recalls that “he started calling me his ‘brown slave’ and demanding that I repeat that I was ‘his property.’ ”

problematic

He should have read...

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/1995/12/25/how-to-date-a-brown-girl-black-girl-white-girl-or-halfie

[Mandark]

Morgan Freeman today.

Also sounds like Jared Leto news could hit any time if an outlet wanted to take time and report the story out.

[mormapope]

Its makes you wonder if the type of personality that flourishes in Hollywood is one of aggression and vileness, or if being in that type of system causes your personality to change over time.

Doesn't change the vileness or incidents at all. Its a really sad and strange style of behavior that's present everywhere. You would hope privilege would make people not do vile things, but.....

[shosta]

perhaps we are all monsters when there is no one to tell us no

[Assimilate]

Its makes you wonder if the type of personality that flourishes in Hollywood is one of aggression and vileness, or if being in that type of system causes your personality to change over time.

You think bro? Power, money, fame you think that can change a guy?  nahhhhhhhh 

[Madrun Badrun]

https://www.lgbtqnation.com/2018/05/george-takeis-accuser-admits-wasnt-sexual-assaulted/

[chronovore]

"fuck George Takei"

[Mandark]

Chris Hardwick

[chronovore]

Chris Hardwick

Doesn't seem unlikely in the least. Dude has always struck me as off.

[nudemacusers]

Yikes. Time to boycott .. whatever it is Chris Hardwick does.

[bork]

Chris Hardwick

Don't know who this guy is, but-

…Including let him sexually assault me. Regularly. I was expected to be ready for him when he came home from work.

How did this happen? At the beginning of our relationship, I was quite ill often due to my diet, something I’ll get to in a bit. One night he initiated, and I said, “I’m so sorry, can we not tonight? I’m feeling really sick.” He responded, “I just want to remind you, the reason my last relationship didn’t work out was because of the lack of sex.” It was a veiled threat. I succumbed.

Every night, I laid there for him, occasionally in tears. He called it “starfishing”. He thought the whole idea was funny. To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him. I’m still recovering from being sexually used (not in a super fun way) for three years.

The first time I told him I loved him after 6 months of hoping he’d say it first, his response was (and I quote), “I think I love you too, f****t.”

...How is this "sexual assault?"  She let him do it.   It sounds like he's a fucking douchebag but that's it.

[chronovore]

Chris Hardwick

Don't know who this guy is, but-

…Including let him sexually assault me. Regularly. I was expected to be ready for him when he came home from work.

How did this happen? At the beginning of our relationship, I was quite ill often due to my diet, something I’ll get to in a bit. One night he initiated, and I said, “I’m so sorry, can we not tonight? I’m feeling really sick.” He responded, “I just want to remind you, the reason my last relationship didn’t work out was because of the lack of sex.” It was a veiled threat. I succumbed.

Every night, I laid there for him, occasionally in tears. He called it “starfishing”. He thought the whole idea was funny. To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him. I’m still recovering from being sexually used (not in a super fun way) for three years.

The first time I told him I loved him after 6 months of hoping he’d say it first, his response was (and I quote), “I think I love you too, f****t.”

...How is this "sexual assault?"  She let him do it.   It sounds like he's a fucking douchebag but that's it.

Seriously, are you dumb, insensitive, or just confused?

When a person stops resisting during rape, does that mean she's complicit?

She's not using the word "rape," but "assault," designating that was was happening was not a mutually desired act. "Starfishing" may be implying sodomy as well, which she may not have desired, but due to the emotionally abusive relationship, she submitted to it.

If you need an object lesson, come bend over in front of me for the next several months, and I will show you.

[Tasty]

The first time I told him I loved him after 6 months of hoping he’d say it first, his response was (and I quote), “I think I love you too, f****t.”

[team filler]

Every night, I laid there for him, occasionally in tears. He called it “starfishing”.

 

[TakingBackSunday]

This is pretty upsetting, not necessarily because I listen to the Nerdist a decent amount, but because of the other Nerdist people that I truly DO like.  Jonah Ray, Matt Mira, etc.  Really shitty.

[ToxicAdam]

I think it's gross of her to come out and say those things.

Every one has bad relationships. Everyone has stayed in a bad relationship where the other person treats them like a tool. Every one has come out of a bad relationship and had those feelings where you beat yourself up and say "Why did I let them do that to me for so long?"

That feeling of lack of closure can make you pretty bitter and have a biased memory of a relationship.


You try to learn from it and make sure not to make the same mistakes again.

She got into a relationship where there was a huge imbalance between her and her partner. In terms of age, life experience, finances and social status. He abused his leverage and she let it happen.  Doesn't make him a great guy, but it doesn't make him some kind of abnormal monster either.

[benjipwns]

Finally live wrap up shows to shitty TV shows will be taken off the air

[Steve Contra]

I think it's gross of her to come out and say those things.

Every one has bad relationships. Everyone has stayed in a bad relationship where the other person treats them like a tool. Every one has come out of a bad relationship and had those feelings where you beat yourself up and say "Why did I let them do that to me for so long?"

That feeling of lack of closure can make you pretty bitter and have a biased memory of a relationship.


You try to learn from it and make sure not to make the same mistakes again.

She got into a relationship where there was a huge imbalance between her and her partner. In terms of age, life experience, finances and social status. He abused his leverage and she let it happen.  Doesn't make him a great guy, but it doesn't make him some kind of abnormal monster either.

No, it really does make him an abnormal monster, and he should dragged all over for this.

[I'm a Puppy!]

“I think I love you too, f****t."

This really needs to be in the newsfeed.

[Mandark]

She got into a relationship where there was a huge imbalance between her and her partner. In terms of age, life experience, finances and social status. He abused his leverage and she let it happen.  Doesn't make him a great guy, but it doesn't make him some kind of abnormal monster either.

Kind of wild that you can acknowledge the imbalance, use the term "abused," and still think she was equally at fault or that it's "gross" of her to speak publicly about what happened.

[ToxicAdam]

It was said from the perspective that she was telling the truth. But there is no evidence of that outside of her account. Maybe others will come out later and corroborate her story.

Keep in mind, we're talking about a relationship that was only 2 1/2 years long, in a situation where neither one was obligated to each other (either through marriage, ownership of property or business, or working together).

[Mandark]

Keep in mind, we're talking about a relationship that was only 2 1/2 years long, in a situation where neither one was obligated to each other (either through marriage, ownership of property or business, or working together).

I sincerely have no idea what point this is meant to make.

[CatsCatsCats]

TA just doesn’t want him to be.... Singled Out

[thisismyusername]

Chris Hardwick

Don't know who this guy is, but-

…Including let him sexually assault me. Regularly. I was expected to be ready for him when he came home from work.

How did this happen? At the beginning of our relationship, I was quite ill often due to my diet, something I’ll get to in a bit. One night he initiated, and I said, “I’m so sorry, can we not tonight? I’m feeling really sick.” He responded, “I just want to remind you, the reason my last relationship didn’t work out was because of the lack of sex.” It was a veiled threat. I succumbed.

Every night, I laid there for him, occasionally in tears. He called it “starfishing”. He thought the whole idea was funny. To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him. I’m still recovering from being sexually used (not in a super fun way) for three years.

The first time I told him I loved him after 6 months of hoping he’d say it first, his response was (and I quote), “I think I love you too, f****t.”

...How is this "sexual assault?"  She let him do it.   It sounds like he's a fucking douchebag but that's it.

Seriously, are you dumb, insensitive, or just confused?

When a person stops resisting during rape, does that mean she's complicit?

She's not using the word "rape," but "assault," designating that was was happening was not a mutually desired act. "Starfishing" may be implying sodomy as well, which she may not have desired, but due to the emotionally abusive relationship, she submitted to it.

If you need an object lesson, come bend over in front of me for the next several months, and I will show you.

Please know if I could give you money for this post, I would. A++, would read and reference in materials.

[Mandark]

http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=45505.0

[Madrun Badrun]

Chris Hardwick

Don't know who this guy is, but-

…Including let him sexually assault me. Regularly. I was expected to be ready for him when he came home from work.

How did this happen? At the beginning of our relationship, I was quite ill often due to my diet, something I’ll get to in a bit. One night he initiated, and I said, “I’m so sorry, can we not tonight? I’m feeling really sick.” He responded, “I just want to remind you, the reason my last relationship didn’t work out was because of the lack of sex.” It was a veiled threat. I succumbed.

Every night, I laid there for him, occasionally in tears. He called it “starfishing”. He thought the whole idea was funny. To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him. I’m still recovering from being sexually used (not in a super fun way) for three years.

The first time I told him I loved him after 6 months of hoping he’d say it first, his response was (and I quote), “I think I love you too, f****t.”

...How is this "sexual assault?"  She let him do it.   It sounds like he's a fucking douchebag but that's it.

Seriously, are you dumb, insensitive, or just confused?

When a person stops resisting during rape, does that mean she's complicit?

She's not using the word "rape," but "assault," designating that was was happening was not a mutually desired act. "Starfishing" may be implying sodomy as well, which she may not have desired, but due to the emotionally abusive relationship, she submitted to it.

If you need an object lesson, come bend over in front of me for the next several months, and I will show you.

starfishing just means dead fish.

[Transhuman]

Chris Hardwick

Don't know who this guy is, but-

…Including let him sexually assault me. Regularly. I was expected to be ready for him when he came home from work.

How did this happen? At the beginning of our relationship, I was quite ill often due to my diet, something I’ll get to in a bit. One night he initiated, and I said, “I’m so sorry, can we not tonight? I’m feeling really sick.” He responded, “I just want to remind you, the reason my last relationship didn’t work out was because of the lack of sex.” It was a veiled threat. I succumbed.

Every night, I laid there for him, occasionally in tears. He called it “starfishing”. He thought the whole idea was funny. To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him. I’m still recovering from being sexually used (not in a super fun way) for three years.

The first time I told him I loved him after 6 months of hoping he’d say it first, his response was (and I quote), “I think I love you too, f****t.”

...How is this "sexual assault?"  She let him do it.   It sounds like he's a fucking douchebag but that's it.

Seriously, are you dumb, insensitive, or just confused?

When a person stops resisting during rape, does that mean she's complicit?

She's not using the word "rape," but "assault," designating that was was happening was not a mutually desired act. "Starfishing" may be implying sodomy as well, which she may not have desired, but due to the emotionally abusive relationship, she submitted to it.

If you need an object lesson, come bend over in front of me for the next several months, and I will show you.

That's the thing I mean, it's not like he started out all sweet and lured her into the relationship and then slowly broke her down. From her desciption he started out as a dick, was still a dick as they started dating, and when the relationship became more permanent, still a dick. No-one deserves to be treated the way she was treated if they don't want to be, but looking at it from Hardwick's perspective, if he truly is a self-obsessed person who doesn't know how to be in a normal give-and-take relationship, how was he supposed to know how miserable she felt? From her description he is not emotionally observant (or caring), so in his mind it started with her wanting a relationship with him despite his hangups, then as things got worse he thought "well maybe this is just a rough patch", then when she kissed someone else and told him she wanted to break it off, he had a moment of clarity, asked for another second chance, was told no.

Shit relationships happen. I'm really interested what his ex Janet Varney has to say about their previous 7 year relationship, because a) I love her and b) it could really shed some light on whether he has a history of emotional neglect.

(Varney voiced Korra and did an awesome podcast where she interviewed women about what their highschool experience was like growing up)

[kingv]

We already know Janet Varney is stingy with the pussy.

[Mandark]

That's the thing I mean, it's not like he started out all sweet and lured her into the relationship and then slowly broke her down. From her desciption he started out as a dick, was still a dick as they started dating, and when the relationship became more permanent, still a dick. No-one deserves to be treated the way she was treated if they don't want to be, but looking at it from Hardwick's perspective, if he truly is a self-obsessed person who doesn't know how to be in a normal give-and-take relationship, how was he supposed to know how miserable she felt? From her description he is not emotionally observant (or caring), so in his mind it started with her wanting a relationship with him despite his hangups, then as things got worse he thought "well maybe this is just a rough patch", then when she kissed someone else and told him she wanted to break it off, he had a moment of clarity, asked for another second chance, was told no.

Shit relationships happen. I'm really interested what his ex Janet Varney has to say about their previous 7 year relationship, because a) I love her and b) it could really shed some light on whether he has a history of emotional neglect.

(Varney voiced Korra and did an awesome podcast where she interviewed women about what their highschool experience was like growing up)

Yeah that's gonna be a no from me, dog.

[Transhuman]

Why is it a no from you though bro? What's your take

[Purrp Skirrp]

That's the thing I mean, it's not like he started out all sweet and lured her into the relationship and then slowly broke her down. From her desciption he started out as a dick, was still a dick as they started dating, and when the relationship became more permanent, still a dick. No-one deserves to be treated the way she was treated if they don't want to be, but looking at it from Hardwick's perspective, if he truly is a self-obsessed person who doesn't know how to be in a normal give-and-take relationship, how was he supposed to know how miserable she felt? From her description he is not emotionally observant (or caring), so in his mind it started with her wanting a relationship with him despite his hangups, then as things got worse he thought "well maybe this is just a rough patch", then when she kissed someone else and told him she wanted to break it off, he had a moment of clarity, asked for another second chance, was told no.

Shit relationships happen. I'm really interested what his ex Janet Varney has to say about their previous 7 year relationship, because a) I love her and b) it could really shed some light on whether he has a history of emotional neglect.

(Varney voiced Korra and did an awesome podcast where she interviewed women about what their highschool experience was like growing up)

Aren't you a virgin?

[Mandark]

What's described in the Medium post is textbook abusive behavior almost to the point of cliche. Constantly berating a partner for minor infractions, dictating "rules" to them, cutting off contact with friends, monitoring and restricting their movement, pushing for sex after hearing "no" even when it makes their partner cry, etc.

The idea that he was just bad at picking up on the signs she was unhappy, or the passive voice characterizing it as a "bad relationship" that "just happened" just aren't credible after reading her account. Hell, she says "he repeatedly shared with me that he was terrified I would talk publicly about how he treated me." You need to ignore so many of the details to pretend this was all a big accident.

Promising to change in order to keep her from leaving is also such a common behavior among abusers that it'd be funny to see it used to defend him, except that people take that sort of shit at face value all the time.

[bork]

Chris Hardwick

Don't know who this guy is, but-

…Including let him sexually assault me. Regularly. I was expected to be ready for him when he came home from work.

How did this happen? At the beginning of our relationship, I was quite ill often due to my diet, something I’ll get to in a bit. One night he initiated, and I said, “I’m so sorry, can we not tonight? I’m feeling really sick.” He responded, “I just want to remind you, the reason my last relationship didn’t work out was because of the lack of sex.” It was a veiled threat. I succumbed.

Every night, I laid there for him, occasionally in tears. He called it “starfishing”. He thought the whole idea was funny. To be fair, I did go along with it out of fear of losing him. I’m still recovering from being sexually used (not in a super fun way) for three years.

The first time I told him I loved him after 6 months of hoping he’d say it first, his response was (and I quote), “I think I love you too, f****t.”

...How is this "sexual assault?"  She let him do it.   It sounds like he's a fucking douchebag but that's it.

Seriously, are you dumb, insensitive, or just confused?

 

Nice, thanks, Chrono.

When a person stops resisting during rape, does that mean she's complicit?

She's not using the word "rape," but "assault," designating that was was happening was not a mutually desired act. "Starfishing" may be implying sodomy as well, which she may not have desired, but due to the emotionally abusive relationship, she submitted to it.

If you need an object lesson, come bend over in front of me for the next several months, and I will show you.

She said “I’m so sorry, can we not tonight? I’m feeling really sick.” He responded, “I just want to remind you, the reason my last relationship didn’t work out was because of the lack of sex.” It was a veiled threat. I succumbed.

He threatened to end their relationship if she didn't put out...so she consented- She said she was sexually used by him.  He's a piece of shit if this is all true, but rape is forced, is it not?  She was letting him do it because she didn't want the relationship to end.

("Starfishing" is "When an individual, who is too fatigued to engage in sexual activity themselves, lay spread out on the bed for their partner," apparently.)

I'm not defending whatshisname here if what she said about him is true, but I read it as more of her being in a really shitty, emotionally and verbally-abusive relationship that she stayed in for way too long.  He's a piece of shit for using her like that.

[Transhuman]

Aren't you a virgin?

Yeah but I watched all 3 seasons of Veronica Mars

Promising to change in order to keep her from leaving is also such a common behavior among abusers that it'd be funny to see it used to defend him, except that people take that sort of shit at face value all the time.

I mean yeah it's one of the oldest relationship cliches there is, not just among abusers.

[Mandark]

He threatened to end their relationship if she didn't put out...so she consented- She said she was sexually used by him.  He's a piece of shit if this is all true, but rape is forced, is it not?  She was letting him do it because she didn't want the relationship to end.

I'm not defending whatshisname here if what she said about him is true, but I read it as more of her being in a really shitty, emotionally and verbally-abusive relationship that she stayed in for way too long.  He's a piece of shit for using her like that.

This is why a lot of feminists have been getting behind the idea of "enthusiastic consent."

She said yes, but that yes was in response to a veiled threat, in the context of what you yourself recognize as an abusive relationship, and she was acquiescing to something so clearly traumatic to her that it made her cry.

We don't have a great consensus on the language for encounters like that, because it hasn't been treated as a serious problem before. So while calling it "assault" might have a flattening effect which equates it with legally defined rape, calling it "consensual" flattens it in the other direction, whitewashing the reality of what he did to her. At the very least we should be able to call it a violation.

There is the potential for a gray area and miscommunication with sexual consent, but after Louis CK (who always made sure he got a "yes") and Aziz Ansari, there were a lot of guys seizing on that gray area, or evidence of consent in a very technical sense, to completely exonerate those guys and justify aggressive, pressuring, and even threatening behavior all the way up to, but not quite including forcible rape. Maybe in a couple years we'll call this something else, but right now I'm not really bothered by the "assault" terminology.


edit: there were several really good pieces by women after the Aziz thing about how we conceptualize and talk about borderline cases and I'm kicking myself for not bookmarking any of them.

[Mandark]

.

[bork]

He threatened to end their relationship if she didn't put out...so she consented- She said she was sexually used by him.  He's a piece of shit if this is all true, but rape is forced, is it not?  She was letting him do it because she didn't want the relationship to end.

I'm not defending whatshisname here if what she said about him is true, but I read it as more of her being in a really shitty, emotionally and verbally-abusive relationship that she stayed in for way too long.  He's a piece of shit for using her like that.

This is why a lot of feminists have been getting behind the idea of "enthusiastic consent."

She said yes, but that yes was in response to a veiled threat, in the context of what you yourself recognize as an abusive relationship, and she was acquiescing to something so clearly traumatic to her that it made her cry.

We don't have a great consensus on the language for encounters like that, because it hasn't been treated as a serious problem before. So while calling it "assault" might have a flattening effect which equates it with legally defined rape, calling it "consensual" flattens it in the other direction, whitewashing the reality of what he did to her. At the very least we should be able to call it a violation.

There is the potential for a gray area and miscommunication with sexual consent, but after Louis CK (who always made sure he got a "yes") and Aziz Ansari, there were a lot of guys seizing on that gray area, or evidence of consent in a very technical sense, to completely exonerate those guys and justify aggressive, pressuring, and even threatening behavior all the way up to, but not quite including forcible rape. Maybe in a couple years we'll call this something else, but right now I'm not really bothered by the "assault" terminology.

Sure, makes sense to me and I agree with you.  Not exactly something I thought I was going to get called out on like that.   

[kingv]

“Sexual assault” has varying legal definitions it different states.

I wouldn’t call this sexual assault because I don’t think it would meet the legal definition in any of them (except maybe California).

Sure, he’s a piece of shit, and arguably he coerced or pressured her into sex. But she agreed to it and says as much herself.

You could definitely say he abused her, or even sexually abused her but I wouldn’t say he sexually assaulted her, because it probably would not be possible to charge him with that anywhere in the country.

I understand that definition of “enthusiastic consent” but think it’s not very workable. Theoretically both sides should be enthusiastic, but in reality, how are you going to have some sort of definition of “misconduct” where one person asks another to have sex, that person says yes and then later says “oh, I didn’t really want to do it, so it was an assault”. Because the idea that two people are having sex and one person is not that into it that day/night seems like a really common occurrence, even within a relatively normal relationship.

I think it also is asking people to be mind readers. I’m not sure how a person is expected to know what the other person is thinking. At some point you have to expect people to have agency, and outside of a physical threat, being really fucked up, or in an abusive situation, people have to take responsibility for being clear about their desires and what they are ok with and state those clearly.

It’s why I’d say that Aziz Ansari is kind of a douche bag, but he’s not a sexual predator. He pressed up until the point she said a firm no, and then backed off. If we settle on some kind of abuse standard that requires you to examine your feelings to determine if you were assaulted, or worse, anticipate the other persons emotional state to know if you have committed a crime, I just don’t think it is workable or a particularly useful definition.

[Mandark]

buddy, no

It’s why I’d say that Aziz Ansari is kind of a douche bag, but he’s not a sexual predator. He pressed up until the point she said a firm no, and then backed off.

This is a really dishonest summary of that piece (and whatever we think of the author or the site, Ansari never disputed the sequence of events laid out in the story).

If you feel you can't defend what these guys did without whitewashing it, that should maybe raise some flags.

[bork]

The definition of a sexual predator is "a person seen as obtaining or trying to obtain sexual contact with another person in a metaphorically "predatory" or abusive manner."  Aziz Ansari fits that description for sure- so does Chris Harwick based on that definition, so I see how my response looked pretty bad now.  Was not what I was implying. 

These guys are all scum anyway and nobody is arguing against that.

[kingv]

buddy, no

It’s why I’d say that Aziz Ansari is kind of a douche bag, but he’s not a sexual predator. He pressed up until the point she said a firm no, and then backed off.

This is a really dishonest summary of that piece (and whatever we think of the author or the site, Ansari never disputed the sequence of events laid out in the story).

If you feel you can't defend what these guys did without whitewashing it, that should maybe raise some flags.

Honestly, I believe my summary is pretty accurate if you read between the embellishment of how uncomfortable she looked and how bad he was for not noticing she was uncomfortable.

But from a different point of view she made out with him, then let him undress her, then wanted to slow down, then agreed to suck his dick, then wanted to slow down, but never explicitly said “no I don’t want to have sex with you” or “im not comfortable with this, I’m leaving.” She didn’t say she didn’t want to have sex, she said “Next time”.

I’m not saying Aziz Ansari is a smooth cool dude. But nothing he did was illegal, nor should it be.

[Mupepe]

I don't understand how people can say things along the lines of "yeah, clearly he's taking advantage of his partner's weaknesses for his own pleasure/benefit but he's not a predator" 

[Transhuman]

I don't understand how people can say things along the lines of "yeah, clearly he's taking advantage of his partner's weaknesses for his own pleasure/benefit but he's not a predator" 

It comes down to believing that despite his ridiculous expectations, he wasn't so controlling that she was incapable of making her own decisions. If she feared for her safety or he was physical that would be one thing, but by her own statement, he was a poor partner from day 0 and she stuck around because she wanted to until she didn't.

[Dickie Dee]

I don't understand how people can say things along the lines of "yeah, clearly he's taking advantage of his partner's weaknesses for his own pleasure/benefit but he's not a predator" 

It comes down to believing that despite his ridiculous expectations, he wasn't so controlling that she was incapable of making her own decisions. If she feared for her safety or he was physical that would be one thing, but by her own statement, he was a poor partner from day 0 and she stuck around because she wanted to until she didn't.

Can't believe this even needs saying but: abuse doesn't have to be physical.

[Transhuman]

Yeah i'm not saying that this isn't emotional abuse, or that emotional abuse doesn't happen. I just believe that it never passed a threshold to where she truly lacked agency. I imagine that is the only point where we differ.

[CatsCatsCats]

Her sticking around for it doesn’t make it not abuse, how don’t you get that?


Edit: whether or not she lacked agency isn’t really of issue in “is this shitty and abuse,” so ...

[Transhuman]

Her sticking around for it doesn’t make it not abuse, how don’t you get that?

By her own account she knew it was a toxic relationship going in, and she didn't stick around for it, she left, thus proving she was capable of deciding to leave the relationship and following through with that decision. And before you ask, i'm not saying it was easy because it was most likely very, very hard for her. C'mon guys don't put words in my mouth.

[Trent Dole]

Was it rape? Maybe not exactly. Was it amoral, gross, and is Chris human garbage along with anyone defending his predatory behavior? Hell yes.

[Transhuman]

That at least, I can unreservedly agree with.

[Kara]

I understand that definition of “enthusiastic consent” but think it’s not very workable. Theoretically both sides should be enthusiastic, but in reality, how are you going to have some sort of definition of “misconduct” where one person asks another to have sex, that person says yes and then later says “oh, I didn’t really want to do it, so it was an assault”. Because the idea that two people are having sex and one person is not that into it that day/night seems like a really common occurrence, even within a relatively normal relationship.

I think it also is asking people to be mind readers. I’m not sure how a person is expected to know what the other person is thinking. At some point you have to expect people to have agency, and outside of a physical threat, being really fucked up, or in an abusive situation, people have to take responsibility for being clear about their desires and what they are ok with and state those clearly.

You're making out with someone and want to take it further. You slide your hand down toward their sex organ area. You ask them, "Is this alright?" They say yes. Stuff happens. You want to take it further. You slide your hand down towards your pants button. You ask them, "Is this alright?" They say yes. You whip that shit out. They put their hand on it. "Is this alright?" they ask. You say yes. You pull out your phone, open the DoorDash app, search for Taco Bell, and show them the screen. "Is this alright?" you ask. They say, "Of course!"