Author Topic: The Intellectual Wank Dad [ ot ] jordan peterson Jordan Peterson JORDAN PETERSON  (Read 207423 times)

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curly

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« Reply #1200 on: May 17, 2018, 02:57:16 AM »
etoilet, to himself: "another mental altercation won"

etiolate

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« Reply #1201 on: May 17, 2018, 02:57:56 AM »
Now it spreads across the forum.

Mandark

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« Reply #1202 on: May 17, 2018, 02:58:00 AM »
facts don't care about your feelings  :(

curly

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« Reply #1203 on: May 17, 2018, 03:06:34 AM »
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This doesn't stop until you admit that Communist Manifesto is the basis of the policies that starved these people.

I don't negotiate with terrorists

etiolate

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« Reply #1204 on: May 17, 2018, 03:07:58 AM »
You don't need to negotiate with evil when you're already breaking bread with it.

curly

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« Reply #1205 on: May 17, 2018, 03:11:45 AM »
starting to feel that I've won this mental altercation

Mandark

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« Reply #1206 on: May 17, 2018, 03:14:35 AM »
Since Ho Chi Minh quoted a paragraph of the US Declaration of Independence for his own Vietnamese Declaration of Independence, does that mean Thomas Jefferson is responsible for both sides of the Vietnam War?

etiolate

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« Reply #1207 on: May 17, 2018, 03:15:15 AM »
ooh so hungry for curly's whataboutism

here you go buddy!

golly that meal of curly's apologism is so heavy, we're all gonna have to sleep it off!
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:03:24 AM by Great Rumbler »

Momo

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« Reply #1208 on: May 17, 2018, 03:27:16 AM »
If you guys are just going to keep antagonizing etiolate this is going to happen, ignore him, engage him on his points or drag him to debate on your terms, but if you're going to do the usual spiel he's just going to go postal oneday and you'll all be to blame.

Momo

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« Reply #1209 on: May 17, 2018, 03:29:08 AM »
Oh I see i'm too late, well luckily i'm not the one getting shot, thanks ocean  :shaqc

etiolate

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« Reply #1210 on: May 17, 2018, 03:30:04 AM »
Just be honest. I am honest with you all even when you're piles of shit.

I don't fuck around.

This whole thing crosses a fat fucking line with me.

You're trying to argue the grandaddy of communism has nothing to do with the practice of communism. I'm not surprised this comes from completely unaccountable and awful people, but this is one case where I don't let your slimy shit slide.

curly

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« Reply #1211 on: May 17, 2018, 03:31:10 AM »
 ::) I spent the entire last page replying to him, don't blame me for him being a manbaby. personal responsibility u kno :blessup

etiolate

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« Reply #1212 on: May 17, 2018, 03:38:24 AM »
you have nothing to lose but your chains curly

curly

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« Reply #1213 on: May 17, 2018, 03:48:43 AM »
that doesn't even make sense in this context dummy

seriously, before hitting post, give what you wrote a quick once-over. make sure you have a subject and a verb that are somewhat related to each other. check that there is an actual thought behind each sentence. it'll make your posts 10x more coherent.

Mandark

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« Reply #1214 on: May 17, 2018, 03:53:16 AM »
This all reminds me that this thread had a bit of discussion of Nietzsche a while ago, specifically arguing whether he was anti-semitic. I think Stro was defending him and it was wrapped up when jake had a very nice post summarizing what was known and putting it in the context of his contemporaries. Nobody came close to assigning him blame for the rise of the Nazis, as I recall.

I guess we got lucky to not be spammed with pictures of Holocaust victims as a result.

etiolate

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« Reply #1215 on: May 17, 2018, 03:58:35 AM »
This is you:

scoring points on the bore> putting your worthless internet pride over the truth of history

Let me explain this very bluntly. Marx gave out a very bad idea. That idea lead to various multitudes of death. I am only posting images of the famine. There's still the gulags and the purging that come from the manifesto's hatred of dissent.

And this wasn't a bad first try. No, this horror was repeated. This revolutionary terror was repeated. Why? Because this horror lasted so long that it weeded out the artistic voice that could tell us of its nature. You aren't smart. You aren't right. You're a political equivalent of the Marvel Cinematic Universe. I have no respect for you, no empathy for your ignorance and no compromise for your childish mistakes.


You can reject it and move up or you can be the guy who passed the buck on famine. And mass incarceration. And forced labor. On horror.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:03:05 AM by Great Rumbler »

Oblivion

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« Reply #1216 on: May 17, 2018, 04:03:32 AM »
I think the most surprising thing about this current discussion is that for some bizarre reason I thought etoilet wouldn't be dumb/lazy enough to make the asinine Marx ---- > Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot connection that every right-winger since the 19th century has . I mean, I know he likes to play in the fever swamp, but only enough to go waist deep, and not actually swim in it.

Again, I don't know why I thought this, but I did.  :doge

curly

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« Reply #1217 on: May 17, 2018, 04:16:21 AM »
Quote
scoring points on the bore> putting your worthless internet pride over the truth of history

I mean come on. Have we totally given up on our signs having meaning?

etiolate

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« Reply #1218 on: May 17, 2018, 04:28:41 AM »
It's not hard to admit you're wrong unless your nature is evil

enjoy your images

Soon your eyes will gloss over these morbid flashes of chemicals and time. The futures lost long ago will merge and meld like fresh iron in the blacksmith's fire. A bit of old versus a bit of new. Silly souls who didn't work out quite right. An unfortunate generation. A thousond or a million. Bones wearing skin like a cat wears an April rain storm. Death in the eyes. Just a mistake, really.

Thanos had a point you know.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:02:55 AM by Great Rumbler »

Mandark

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« Reply #1219 on: May 17, 2018, 04:32:23 AM »
I think the most surprising thing about this current discussion is that for some bizarre reason I thought etoilet wouldn't be dumb/lazy enough to make the asinine Marx ---- > Stalin/Mao/Pol Pot connection that every right-winger since the 19th century has . I mean, I know he likes to play in the fever swamp, but only enough to go waist deep, and not actually swim in it.

Again, I don't know why I thought this, but I did.  :doge

Marx was a clear influence on labor/social democratic parties for a long time (hence my remark earlier about Eduard Bernstein), which means it's obvious from just a very brief look at history that exposure to his ideas doesn't inexorably lead to massive atrocities. I guess that's the point, though? Marxism is simultaneously the slaughter of innocents, and any social welfare policy, so food stamps are a step towards totalitarianism, etc.

Plus drawing straight lines from theorists to politicians is a bit of a mug's game. There were a lot of blog posts on the intellectual history of the neoconservatives (Straussians, ex-Trots, etc.) but I never felt that they gave me any more insight on the subject than just saying they were assholes with a wildly optimistic view of the US military's capabilities.

etiolate

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« Reply #1220 on: May 17, 2018, 04:34:16 AM »
You could have just said you were wrong.

Mandark

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« Reply #1221 on: May 17, 2018, 04:41:14 AM »
Soon your eyes will gloss over these morbid flashes of chemicals and time. The futures lost long ago will merge and meld like fresh iron in the blacksmith's fire. A bit of old versus a bit of new. Silly souls who didn't work out quite right. An unfortunate generation. A thousond or a million. Bones wearing skin like a cat wears an April rain storm. Death in the eyes. Just a mistake, really.

Thanos had a point you know.

Want to save this amazing prose just in case.

etiolate

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« Reply #1222 on: May 17, 2018, 04:43:32 AM »
Just in case it gets to your employer that you excuse mass murder?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
"Your employer" obviously j/k
[close]
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 10:02:21 AM by Great Rumbler »

HardcoreRetro

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« Reply #1223 on: May 17, 2018, 06:06:12 AM »
Shouting Hitler and posting horrible pictures screams intelligent debate.

Oblivion

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« Reply #1224 on: May 17, 2018, 06:07:22 AM »
So...I'm pretty cool with the idea of banning etoilet, now.

Just throwing that out there.

HardcoreRetro

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« Reply #1225 on: May 17, 2018, 06:10:09 AM »
Why not use the one thing that's worse than whatever he posted against him

Communism

Communism

Communism

Communism

Communism

Communism

agrajag

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« Reply #1226 on: May 17, 2018, 07:21:07 AM »
If you guys are just going to keep antagonizing etiolate this is going to happen, ignore him, engage him on his points or drag him to debate on your terms, but if you're going to do the usual spiel he's just going to go postal oneday and you'll all be to blame.

But what about personal accountability you fucking commie?

Momo

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« Reply #1227 on: May 17, 2018, 07:31:05 AM »
If you guys are just going to keep antagonizing etiolate this is going to happen, ignore him, engage him on his points or drag him to debate on your terms, but if you're going to do the usual spiel he's just going to go postal oneday and you'll all be to blame.

But what about personal accountability you fucking commie?
I'm just out here trying to not get my ass shot  :doge

Great Rumbler

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« Reply #1228 on: May 17, 2018, 09:33:02 AM »
You guys can go back to arguing with etiolate in a couple days, so long as he keeps the spamming of pics of dead/starving kids confined to this thread.
dog

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« Reply #1229 on: May 17, 2018, 10:58:41 AM »
Because I don't enter into mental altercations that I believe to have already won.
FTFY

Now it spreads across the forum.
The actions of a stable individual.

You're trying to argue the grandaddy of communism has nothing to do with the practice of communism.
No they weren't.

agrajag

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« Reply #1230 on: May 17, 2018, 11:11:14 AM »
FWIW no one here actually supports full on communism, I don't think?

TakingBackSunday

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« Reply #1231 on: May 17, 2018, 11:26:54 AM »
Nope, I like money too much
püp

CatsCatsCats

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« Reply #1232 on: May 17, 2018, 11:35:41 AM »
by engaging with etiolate, you have already lost

Because I don't enter into mental altercations that I haven't already won.

I'm not a gambler. I'm an opportunist.

I’m just glad he admitted this. If the toilet thinks you have a valid point against him, he will avoid you. Who is the coward?

Leadbelly

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« Reply #1233 on: May 17, 2018, 11:54:39 AM »
lol this just popped up on Youtube as a recommended video. Perhaps partly because of this thread, although I have watched Peterson videos before.


Something I mentioned in the other thread:

Quote
The other thing is this guy (although I don't know enough about it) seems to look at it from a standpoint of classical Marxism, something I think at least some of these intellectuals would actually agree (although I don't know if he agress with it) is dead.

Certainly I think that is the case. Identity Politics, through its separating of identity groups and their grievances, encourages difference. Marxism was more about fostering solidarity through more universal causes. Common cause. The main focus of Modern Leftist politics seems to be more around minority issues. The main focus of Marxism is of course class.

That said, people on the far-left are not capitalists. You can't completely separate Marxist thought from Left-wing politics, it's just that the main focus has switched from proletariat vs bourgeoisie to oppressor and oppressed.

I don't particularly like the way Jordan Peterson defines the far-Left because it almost sounds like a conspiracy theory, whether he actually intends that or not. That said, I understand the need to define it a certain way. It isn't the Left in general that is problem in itself. You have to be more specfic. The Postmodern/neo-marxists seems to me to be an attempt by Peterson to more specifically define people he is critical of.

As this video shows, it isn't really classical Marxism he is talking about. Sure, he makes comments about Marxism, but as I mentioned before, I don't think that is actually what he means by Postmodern/neo-marxist.

shosta

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« Reply #1234 on: May 17, 2018, 01:08:31 PM »
what if etiolate just wanted to get banned so he can finally say he has been
每天生气

agrajag

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« Reply #1235 on: May 17, 2018, 01:11:16 PM »
Spamming images of victims of starvation is really tasteless and immature but, after some consideration, would not be out of character for Jordan Peterson.

I did say that Peterson acts hysterical. So do his fanboys apparently.

Oblivion

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« Reply #1236 on: May 17, 2018, 01:19:11 PM »
what if etiolate just wanted to get banned so he can finally say he has been

The thought crossed my mind as well.

shosta

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« Reply #1237 on: May 17, 2018, 01:39:09 PM »
每天生气

Human Snorenado

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« Reply #1238 on: May 17, 2018, 02:23:01 PM »
How can etoilet drive the conversation if he's unjustly banned for being a gratuitous c*nt? MODZ PLZ

yar

Great Rumbler

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« Reply #1239 on: May 17, 2018, 02:56:04 PM »
what if etiolate just wanted to get banned so he can finally say he has been

:thinking
dog

Mandark

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« Reply #1240 on: May 17, 2018, 04:14:11 PM »
FWIW no one here actually supports full on communism, I don't think?

I'm a certified mixed-economy pragmatist squish. I just think if someone's going to get hysterical about a 19th century economist they ought to do the reading (or at least a more plausible job of faking it).

curly

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« Reply #1241 on: May 17, 2018, 05:38:47 PM »
FWIW no one here actually supports full on communism, I don't think?

I would call myself a democratic socialist

Assimilate

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« Reply #1242 on: May 17, 2018, 05:44:14 PM »
what if etiolate just wanted to get banned so he can finally say he has been

:thinking

 :bolo

cucked. hard.

FWIW no one here actually supports full on communism, I don't think?

I would call myself a democratic socialist
Go hang out in Venezuela. Maybe you'll enjoy yourself. Or maybe you'll die of starvation.   :trumps

naff

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« Reply #1243 on: May 17, 2018, 07:39:25 PM »
lol this just popped up on Youtube as a recommended video. Perhaps partly because of this thread, although I have watched Peterson videos before.


Something I mentioned in the other thread:

Quote
The other thing is this guy (although I don't know enough about it) seems to look at it from a standpoint of classical Marxism, something I think at least some of these intellectuals would actually agree (although I don't know if he agress with it) is dead.

Certainly I think that is the case. Identity Politics, through its separating of identity groups and their grievances, encourages difference. Marxism was more about fostering solidarity through more universal causes. Common cause. The main focus of Modern Leftist politics seems to be more around minority issues. The main focus of Marxism is of course class.

That said, people on the far-left are not capitalists. You can't completely separate Marxist thought from Left-wing politics, it's just that the main focus has switched from proletariat vs bourgeoisie to oppressor and oppressed.

I don't particularly like the way Jordan Peterson defines the far-Left because it almost sounds like a conspiracy theory, whether he actually intends that or not. That said, I understand the need to define it a certain way. It isn't the Left in general that is problem in itself. You have to be more specfic. The Postmodern/neo-marxists seems to me to be an attempt by Peterson to more specifically define people he is critical of.

As this video shows, it isn't really classical Marxism he is talking about. Sure, he makes comments about Marxism, but as I mentioned before, I don't think that is actually what he means by Postmodern/neo-marxist.

The way he characterizes the left as so unified behind the post-modern neo-marxist ideals he abhores with liberal academics and the media pulling the strings at the top is a conspiracy theory, and a way to appear consistent in his derision of the left while also being super vague on what exact points he is being derisive of.   

Pretty similar to the way nazis raised the spectre of cultural bolshevism to deride political opponents - specifically jews. Neo-fascist sites like rightpedia are all about it http://en.rightpedia.info/w/Cultural_Marxism

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Leadbelly

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« Reply #1244 on: May 17, 2018, 08:12:42 PM »
The way he characterizes the left as so unified behind the post-modern neo-marxist ideals he abhores with liberal academics and the media pulling the strings at the top is a conspiracy theory, and a way to appear consistent in his derision of the left while also being super vague on what exact points he is being derisive of.   

Pretty similar to the way nazis raised the spectre of cultural bolshevism to deride political opponents - specifically jews. Neo-fascist sites like rightpedia are all about it http://en.rightpedia.info/w/Cultural_Marxism

(Image removed from quote.)

Again it does come off like a conspiracy theory. Is he really saying the left is unified behind this banner though or is it a way to be more specific about who he is attaacking. It sounds to me like his beef is with intersectionality.

much in the same way as these people.


Maybe what Peterson chooses to describe as postmodern neo marxists, these peope describe as intersectionality.

Either way, even if you think he is talking nonsense, it is highly unlikely it is some kind of dog whistling to Nazis. I'm not sure if that is the angle you are coming at it by linking that stuff, but I doubt that is what he is doing. That in itself is kind conspiratorial thinking.

Incidentally, on the subject of 'cultural Marxism' Brendan O'neill makes the argument as to why what is happening on Campus is not cultural Marxism.

This speech wasn't specifically on Cultural Marxism but he does mention it.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 08:25:31 PM by Leadbelly »

Oblivion

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« Reply #1245 on: May 17, 2018, 08:35:49 PM »
Go hang out in Venezuela. Maybe you'll enjoy yourself. Or maybe you'll die of starvation.   :trumps

:thinking

CatsCatsCats

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« Reply #1246 on: May 17, 2018, 09:39:04 PM »
Your honor, let the record show that etoilet, a man who thinks of himself and portrays himself as a true intellectual, perhaps THE singular intellectual voice of this godforsaken sewage dump, also thinks the way to win an intellectual discussion is to go out of his way to find the most horrific pictures of human atrocities he can find to shock you so you can't disagree with him, while also saying he will not engage unless he thinks he's already "won" the conversation.

Newsfeed and unban, it’s tough but fair

Leadbelly

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« Reply #1247 on: May 17, 2018, 10:38:51 PM »
Etoilet come back and post some videos.  Forget this nonsense.


Oblivion

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« Reply #1248 on: May 17, 2018, 10:54:54 PM »
Leadbelly, what do you think of Trump saying he wants to jail people in the press?

Leadbelly

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« Reply #1249 on: May 17, 2018, 10:57:43 PM »
Leadbelly, what do you think of Trump saying he wants to jail people in the press?

Well, I know he wants to tighten up the libel laws in the US similar to UK libel laws. That in itself is outrageous. UK libel laws are fucking mental. Trump is no defender of free speech, make no mistake about that.
« Last Edit: May 17, 2018, 11:10:48 PM by Leadbelly »

naff

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« Reply #1250 on: May 17, 2018, 10:59:07 PM »
Either way, even if you think he is talking nonsense, it is highly unlikely it is some kind of dog whistling to Nazis. I'm not sure if that is the angle you are coming at it by linking that stuff, but I doubt that is what he is doing. That in itself is kind conspiratorial thinking.

I don't think he's a fascist, but he uses the term to generalise and discredit academia, activist movements and other groups he lumps in with the post-modern neo-marxist gang as ruining society, in a way that parallels with historic use by some pretty distasteful groups. I doubt it's an intentional dog-whistle to the nazi conspiracy theory, but like et spamming pics of people dead and starving at the hands of communism, there's a strong pathos in his argument.

He definitely dislikes the use of intersectionality in framing issues, the problem for him he sees it as increasing tribalism in his eyes instead of resolving it. But it's only a part of his pathos. He mis-characterises intersectional thought and diversity to make a case for individualism. Slightly incongruous with his focus on white privilege making it harder for white people to act successfully as individuals due to unfairly being blamed for minority marginalisation and the (possible, he makes clear to point out) misdeeds of our ancestors, also his penchant for generalization of opposing groups as swathes of sheeple suckling at the post-modern neo-marxist teet.


if yt tag doesnt link properly, starts at 1h37m38s

To paraphrase Peterson here, and this is getting into his conclusion; there are more differences within the defined groups than between them, and the diversity creates more division than inclusivity.

And again, he is so frustrated, and just can't understand why post-modernists have made the canonical distinctions they've made: Gender, Ethnicity, Sexual Proclivity and Gender Identity. These dimensions across which the post-modern neo-marxists have defined people are too narrow. The post-modern need to separate, label and categorise people into these separate groups, this constant search for; and institutionalization, of diversity through initiatives like affirmative action, simply creates more division and tribalism. Individualism is the only answer.

Clearly cheeky pete is making a bit of a joke here, these are the lines down which the most clear discriminations have been made against people as groups regardless of their individual attributes. Surely he at least see's the logic of why those groups were targeted? I've seen etoilet use this whataboutism in the past. Where do you stop taking marginalisation based on difference into account?

"here's some ways people differ! intelligence, temperament (haha, hohoho  :lol), geography, historical time (yes he explains: you live now and not 100 years ago), attractiveness, youth, health, sex (as in having it); women have advantages, men have advantages, maybe one has more than the other - it's not self evident! women live about 8 years longer than men, they're multi-orgasmic (you sly-dog peterson), athleticism, wealth, family-structure, friendship (how many friends you have. sad), and education. WHY NOT THOSE OTHER DIMENSIONS?" Peterson finally asks, exasperated. The other dimensions being the "post-modernist" defined, Gender, Ethnicity, Sexual Proclivity and Gender Identity.

Peterson claims ignorance to why Race is considered a key point of difference. Not just disingenuous, but also mischaracterizes the issue: there is a lot of compassion and assistance provided for the lesser-abled (physically and mentally), the less wealthy and those with poor education. Particularly so in the more social leaning side of social capitalist democracies.
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Leadbelly

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« Reply #1251 on: May 17, 2018, 11:08:37 PM »
I'll watch it tomorrow. It's a bit late here.

shosta

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« Reply #1252 on: May 18, 2018, 12:05:14 AM »
I don't think he's a fascist, but he uses the term to generalise and discredit academia, activist movements and other groups he lumps in with the post-modern neo-marxist gang as ruining society, in a way that parallels with historic use by some pretty distasteful groups.
Speaking of historic similarities, I was mildly chilled when I saw the similarities between Julius Evola and Jordan Peterson. Western esotericism is for crazy people.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 12:14:25 AM by kris »
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Mandark

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« Reply #1253 on: May 18, 2018, 12:25:28 AM »
I don't think he's a fascist, but he uses the term to generalise and discredit academia, activist movements and other groups he lumps in with the post-modern neo-marxist gang as ruining society, in a way that parallels with historic use by some pretty distasteful groups.
Speaking of historic similarities, I was mildly chilled when I saw the similarities between Julius Evola and Jordan Peterson. Western esotericism is for crazy people.

My comp for Peterson is Robert P. George, who's a lot more boring.

benjipwns

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« Reply #1254 on: May 18, 2018, 01:28:46 AM »
The Marx thing is sheer intellectual cowardice on Peterson's part, using the specter of 20th century mass killers to tar the thought of a philosopher from the 19th without engaging the content of his thought, and if anyone on the left tried that sort of guilt-by-association he and his buddies would be up in arms.

If you know about the holodomor and have read the communist manifesto then the linking between the two is pretty obvious. The language of the propaganda against the "Kulaks" is straight out of the manifesto.

The wiping out of dissent is in the manifesto. The confiscation of property from emigrates and "rebels",which the Soviets took to however a degree they wished and filled up their gulags.

Just read the manifesto and look at what happened.
Despite what you might have read in Teen Vogue, Marx didn't invent communism or socialism. And Marxism-Leninism was basically Lenin and Trotsky going "this won't work! here's what will!"

And then Stalin went "anyway, fuck those guys, time to settle my long term inferiority complex growing up in the Russian caste system by taking it out on the world at large!"

Most importantly, Marx was absolutely obsessed with historical determinism to a level that he didn't bother elaborating on how his ultimate states come about because it considered it scientifically proven to happen because he said so. And often would attack his followers who tried to explain it, especially the transition period to communism, for undermining the science. One result of this, and what Lenin and Stalin both had to grapple with is that Marx's very specific stages didn't apply to Russia, like, at all, they were written for the UK and a prospective unified and industrial German state that didn't even come to exist until a few years before Marx died and years after he wrote the Manifesto. (His opinion on France was all over the place, like everyone else's opinions on France always.)

Curly actually pointed this out to you, twice, before you started posting (what I assume were) images of the victims of Communist crimes:
Under Marxist theory the petit-bourgeios are an irrelevant class long before a revolutionary period. The very idea of attempting to institute socialism in a backwards society like czarist Russia goes against orthodox Marxism.
The Soviet and Chinese agricultural polices are derived from Leninist and Maoist theories about how to transition to socialism in a largely peasant society, a situation whose very existence is a departure from orthodox Marxism.
Nowhere was he hand-waiving Marx by blaming Stalin, he was pointing out that Marx didn't even have any reference material on the situation that Lenin and Stalin came into that they could reference. Instead Lenin, and Stalin and Mao and so on, tried to fill Marx's holes and then force it to fit into their situation, then they're the ones who did the hand waiving by being quite violent against anyone who said they were interpreting Marx wrong.

These disputes are literally the story of the endless anti-revisionist breaks in the parties over the 20th century and still to today that you should have spent your time checking out, because they are endlessly amusing, while you were on marxists.org rather than GIS the Holodomor or whatever: https://www.marxists.org/history/erol/erol.htm

benjipwns

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« Reply #1255 on: May 18, 2018, 01:36:48 AM »
Since Ho Chi Minh quoted a paragraph of the US Declaration of Independence for his own Vietnamese Declaration of Independence, does that mean Thomas Jefferson is responsible for both sides of the Vietnam War?
FACT: Thomas Jefferson was rabidly Pro-France, lived there many years, and supported the Revolution even into the bloodiest days

FACT: Thomas Jefferson engaged in the first foreign wars by sending the Navy to attack the Barbary Pirates

FACT: Thomas Jefferson asked for a declaration of war from Congress AFTER the first crossing and battle by Naval ships he ordered into battle

FACT: Thomas Jefferson bailed out France's expensive ongoing wars by paying them for Louisiana

FACT: Thomas Jefferson founded West Point

FACT: Thomas Jefferson supported land redistribution, the radicalism and scope of which depended on his current financial situation and general mood

FACT: I see you horsefuckers and come straight at you.

Mandark

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« Reply #1256 on: May 18, 2018, 01:38:05 AM »
Lenin, and Stalin and Mao and so on, tried to fill Marx's holes

Very on-brand post for The Bore.

Momo

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« Reply #1257 on: May 18, 2018, 01:54:15 AM »


summing up essentially the people this thread is about

benjipwns

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« Reply #1258 on: May 18, 2018, 02:12:15 AM »
The 'Intellectual Dark Web' Is Just Rehashing Old P.C. Controversies in New Media
Quote from: Elizabeth Nolan Brown, reason's newest adorkable editor
Mathematician Eric Weinstein, managing director of Thiel Capital, coined the term Intellectual Dark Web some while back, but it only became a subject of mass controversy after Bari Weiss published a recent New York Times profile of the crew. Weiss lumps Weinstein, his evolutionary biologist brother Bret, and about a dozen other high-profile, often controversial folks in the IDW ranks, including "New Atheism" guru Sam Harris, American Enterprise Institute scholar Christina Hoff Sommers, "comedian" Dave Rubin, conservative pundit Ben Shapiro, author and academic Jordan Peterson, and Quillette founder Claire Lehmann.

A diverse group in terms of work backgrounds and political leanings, what they share is a disdain for modern center-left orthodoxies—and a view of themselves as victims of unfortunate and intensifying forces: identity politics, feminist militancy, transgender activism, illiberalism around speech.

...

The IDW view of their evolving position seems, at minimum, like a selective remembering of recent history. Figures like Harris and Sommers have been controversial for most of their careers, and certainly no one was rolling out the mainstream political welcome wagon for them a decade ago. If anything, both are less fringy figures now than they were 10 years ago.

The last decade was also littered with battles about evolutionary biology and psychology, debates that built on gender wars started decades earlier. Just how physiologically different males and females are and how much this matters has long been a subject of intense and fraught debate; it is not some newfangled concern that millennial SJWs have suddenly seized. Similarly, partisans have been debating political correctness on college campuses for decades.

I don't buy the notion that IDW ideas are only now becoming beyond the pale. Nor am I convinced that they're actually so taboo these days.

As Weiss points out, this is a crowd that has built followings on new-media platforms like YouTube and Twitter rather than relying solely on legacy media, academic publishing, and other traditional routes to getting opinions heard.

...

Presenting themselves as brave and imperiled truth sayers facing down an increasingly "politically correct" populace, they offer their fans an immensely appealing proposition: It's not you, it's them, and liking us is a sign that you are not like them. We are rational, radical where it's called for, able to take a joke, and part of America's great intellectual tradition—everything the speech-policing, biology-denying left is not. And anything we say or share that angers the left is just proof of how insane they have become.

There are indeed a lot of loony people on the left, as there are in most ideological spheres. And college kids have indeed mounted some passionately stupid crusades in the past few years. Pushing back against these people, exposing their hypocrisies, and riling up outrage over their antics is sometimes necessary and often fun. It is always good for garnering attention. But it is also easy
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"Israelis like to build," reads one Ben Shapiro tweet*. "Arabs like to bomb crap and live in open sewage." Shapiro is also fond of pointing out on the regular that he thinks trans people shouldn't have the right to self-determination.

Peterson, a psychology professor at the University of Toronto, skyrocketed to international renown for refusing to address transgender students by their preferred pronouns. His YouTube videos and recently published self-help book are full of sensible advice—interspersed with wisdom about how all feminists have "an unconscious wish for brutal male domination," rants against postmodernism (which has reached almost mythical megavillain status in Peterson's worldview), threats to hit other academics, and goofy parables about lobsters.

Basically, Peterson is like the ideological equivalent of a fad diet: The basic advice is sound—and it may even help you reach your goals—but you could skip the more esoteric elements, like eating for your bloodtype or believing that wearing lipstick in the workplace is asking to be sexually harassed, and wind up in the same place.

Rubin regularly makes absurdly reductionist statements about various groups he opposes ("The leftist media hates gamers" because "they don't like people who solve problems"), relies on bastardized evo-psych to make his points (today's gender norms are good because they've existed "from our hunter-gather days"), and makes videos that instruct people on how "trigger" progressives.
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When your fan base is predicated largely on serving up quickly digestible, dopamine-triggering outrage day after day, week after week, it's very easy to lose perspective, to pander to their (and your own) worst impulses, and to wind up engaging with only the most ridiculous of the other side's arguments. To spend less and less time on the things you want to change and more and more on how stupid the things that other people want to change are.

It is not a career model that encourages nuance, niceness, or introspection. This is also fine; plenty of people make media careers peddling what the market wants, not trying to reveal injustices, speak radical truths, or change the world. Where some of the IDW crowd can become insufferable is doing the former while insisting it's doing the latter.
:teehee



Momo

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« Reply #1259 on: May 18, 2018, 02:22:09 AM »
Worth reading y/n?