Author Topic: The Intellectual Wank Dad [ ot ] jordan peterson Jordan Peterson JORDAN PETERSON  (Read 208010 times)

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benjipwns

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« Reply #1260 on: May 18, 2018, 03:04:03 AM »
i doubt it, i quoted most of the broadly relevant parts probably (and weirdly responsive to some of the points made in the Rubin video you posted)

not even the comments

okay, maybe some comments

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loveconstitution1789|5.14.18 @ 4:04PM|#
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EscherEnigma|5.14.18 @ 3:05PM|#
And Republican voters, despite being in control of the majority of state houses, both branches of the legislature and the presidency, continue to claim that they're being oppressed.
Some folks have a persecution complex that borders on paranoia.

To be fair, the left would absolutely put every last Libertarian and Republican in a concentration camp if they could.

For some reason, Republicans are not advocating the same thing for lefties.

That might be where the defensiveness comes from.
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Just Say'n|5.14.18 @ 3:08PM|#

It's amazing how fast ostensibly libertarian commentators have become the biggest defenders of political correctness.
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Just Say'n|5.14.18 @ 3:15PM|#

"No one is attacking these people, now allow me to smear them with spurious accusations."

- ENB
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Microaggressor|5.14.18 @ 4:28PM|#

I noticed the frequent jabs at Peterson in this piece are all out of context. He likes to ask questions, testing hypothetical boundaries, without necessarily taking that position. ENB interprets him as taking that position, e.g. makeup in the workplace, and writes as if that were a fact. Is this what you'd call a smear?

It's a tried-and-true tactic of the Blue Church gatekeepers to quote their detractors out of context to make it seem like they said something more sinister than they really did. The purpose is to keep the proles away, making it seem like their views can be safely discarded, because you know all you need to know. Take it as a sign that Reason is becoming indistinguishable from the MSM.
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buybuydandavis|5.14.18 @ 4:37PM|#
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It would be nice if they ever actually quoted someone when trying to "explain" them to the public

You notice the only time the author bothers to link to any source-material, its only for the purpose of citing the most-shock-value, taken-out-of-context quotes?
When your goal is to silence WrongThink, you're naturally reticent to repeat the WrongThink.

But likely silencing WrongThink isn't really the goal, it's simply domination, the thrill of trampling on an enemy.

When they aren't physically there to be trampled upon, one has to make due with vilification.
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GILMORE™|5.14.18 @ 3:58PM|#

""Seems like a pretty similar niche to where Reason lives."

It makes more sense when you start to think of Reason.com as controlled opposition, whose purpose is mainly to defang and water-down libertarian criticisms rather than promote them.
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Rigelsen|5.14.18 @ 4:25PM|#

Yes, ENB seems to believe it is perfectly fine to have anyone with heterodox opinions in any of our expanding array of "controversial" topics to be run out of academia, jobs, and major platforms.

This is a dishonest treatment one would expect on The NY Times editorial page, not on Reason.com.
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Just Say'n|5.14.18 @ 4:15PM|#

And this is how conservatives became better defenders of free speech than the ostensibly libertarian
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Rigelsen|5.14.18 @ 4:21PM|#

ELB is anti-heterodoxy. Got it.

Look, they are not complaining about how people are not subscribing their ideas. Their complaint is about being forced out of jobs, "de-monetized" if not kicked off platforms, being literally banned, shouted down or rioted against in college campuses, having hit pieces like this in mainstream media that only seems to quote them out of context.

Yes, they have created their own platforms and found an audience, out of necessity, but ELB's contention seems to be that they should relax and enjoy the crumbs and stop complaining about the vapidity and homogeneity of mainstream intellectual discourse. ELB indeed seems to think that all of this is just fine as it is.

Is ELB actually a libertarian who believes libertarian values should be promoted? Or is "libertarianism" something she just affects for her job? This article suggests the latter.
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The Iconoclast|5.14.18 @ 7:19PM|#

^ this. I think ENB and other of the young reasonoids are endeavoring to thread the needle between writing ostensibly semi-libertarian pieces and creating a corpus that will serve as their career building blocks to eventually get better and more mainstream gigs elsewhere.
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buybuydandavis|5.14.18 @ 11:46PM|#

Progressitarians

The Left infiltrates an org, then exerts relentless in group preference and out group attack to take it over or destroy.

It's good either way. No opposition is left standing.
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JP88|5.14.18 @ 11:15PM|#

This author endorsed punching Ben Shapiro in the face. She promotes political violence. She is not a libertarian.
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RockLibertyWarrior|5.15.18 @ 2:00PM|#

Fucking "Reason" I am about done with this fucking publication that used to be "libertarian" they really aren't anymore, their water carriers for the regressive left. I am sick of this shit, the PC left are dangerous, they want to get rid of free speech and they wouldn't mind lining up libertarians and conservatives in front of a firing squad. Jordan Peterson, Dave Rubin etc. are way braver than any of the fake libertarians that now run "Reason" and their right, the PC left is out for control and blood. I will read "Reason" a little longer to see if they get back on track. I am not holding my breath.
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Hochmeister|5.15.18 @ 2:02PM|#

Good grief Reason What is your beef with this guys? Especially Peterson which you can't seem to give an honest reading of and he is about as libertarian as they come.
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ThomasD|5.16.18 @ 2:38PM|#

ENB is just following the latest directive from her Journolist kommissar.
:rejoice :rejoice DISCOURSE :rejoice :rejoice

Momo

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« Reply #1261 on: May 18, 2018, 03:12:46 AM »

benjipwns

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« Reply #1262 on: May 18, 2018, 09:58:37 AM »
but that he's a neurotic weirdo who doesn't know how to get out that nervous energy other than diving headfirst into a subject so deep that it utterly consumes him
But like, he doesn't even do this. He doesn't even skim wikipedia on his phone half the time.

His entire postmodernism explanation is seemingly based around a shortened summary of a piece of one person's thought (Derrida) who sometimes called himself a Marxist. Sometimes he brings in Foucault but that's only because that's the other famous postmodernist. He ignores that the two didn't agree about much of anything. Let alone worked as some kind of Marxist postmodern cabal. They weren't even the originators of postmodernism or deconstruction. Derrida's deconstruction is even disputed as being deconstruction by postmodernists versus just gibberish.

He's probably not even properly identifying his villains. You get a similar sense as like with this recent state where etoliate decided his true villains needed to be the mass murderers of the 20th century rather than cowardly Mandark or digitally murdered Nola or BEAK STALKER BEAK or other horsefuckers trapped inside the bubble.

benjipwns

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« Reply #1263 on: May 18, 2018, 10:20:49 AM »
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/18/style/jordan-peterson-12-rules-for-life.html
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Jordan Peterson, Custodian of the Patriarchy
He says there’s a crisis in masculinity. Why won’t women — all these wives and witches — just behave?

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Mr. Peterson’s home is a carefully curated house of horror. He has filled it with a sprawl of art that covers the walls from floor to ceiling. Most of it is communist propaganda from the Soviet Union (execution scenes, soldiers looking noble) — a constant reminder, he says, of atrocities and oppression. He wants to feel their imprisonment, though he lives here on a quiet residential street in Toronto and is quite free.

“Marxism is resurgent,” Mr. Peterson says, looking ashen and stricken.

I say it seems unnecessarily stressful to live like this. He tells me life is stressful.

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Mr. Peterson illustrates his arguments with copious references to ancient myths — bringing up stories of witches, biblical allegories and ancient traditions. I ask why these old stories should guide us today.

“It makes sense that a witch lives in a swamp. Yeah,” he says. “Why?”

It’s a hard one.

“Right. That’s right. You don’t know. It’s because those things hang together at a very deep level. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense that an old king lives in a desiccated tower.”

But witches don’t exist, and they don’t live in swamps, I say.

“Yeah, they do. They do exist. They just don’t exist the way you think they exist. They certainly exist. You may say well dragons don’t exist. It’s, like, yes they do — the category predator and the category dragon are the same category. It absolutely exists. It’s a superordinate category. It exists absolutely more than anything else. In fact, it really exists. What exists is not obvious. You say, ‘Well, there’s no such thing as witches.’ Yeah, I know what you mean, but that isn’t what you think when you go see a movie about them. You can’t help but fall into these categories. There’s no escape from them.”

agrajag

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« Reply #1264 on: May 18, 2018, 10:30:01 AM »
This explains so much.

benjipwns

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« Reply #1265 on: May 18, 2018, 10:34:01 AM »
This just doesn't explain the way you think it explains.

agrajag

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« Reply #1266 on: May 18, 2018, 10:35:02 AM »
This just doesn't explain the way you think it explains.

that's because I am a horsefucker

benjipwns

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« Reply #1267 on: May 18, 2018, 10:39:03 AM »
Right. That’s right. It’s because those things hang together at a very deep level. Right. Yeah. And it makes sense that an old king lives in a desiccated tower.

CatsCatsCats

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« Reply #1268 on: May 18, 2018, 10:42:47 AM »
They exist because they do

Great Rumbler

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« Reply #1269 on: May 18, 2018, 10:43:52 AM »
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“Marxism is resurgent,” Mr. Peterson says, looking ashen and stricken.

:lol
dog

agrajag

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« Reply #1270 on: May 18, 2018, 10:49:42 AM »
Benji is a swamp witch.

#draintheswamp

HardcoreRetro

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« Reply #1271 on: May 18, 2018, 10:52:44 AM »
Our witches live at the edge of town and they just make herbal medicine.

benjipwns

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« Reply #1272 on: May 18, 2018, 10:57:52 AM »
Benji is a swamp witch.

#draintheswamp

agrajag

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« Reply #1273 on: May 18, 2018, 11:19:49 AM »

Momo

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« Reply #1274 on: May 18, 2018, 11:55:23 AM »
I hate that you guys want to talk about JP so much

HardcoreRetro

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« Reply #1275 on: May 18, 2018, 11:56:20 AM »
A newt!?

agrajag

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« Reply #1277 on: May 18, 2018, 12:09:35 PM »

agrajag

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« Reply #1278 on: May 18, 2018, 12:48:09 PM »
Petereson might be the dumbest smart guy ever.

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« Reply #1279 on: May 18, 2018, 01:01:37 PM »
Redistribution of wealth : :holeup

Redistribution of pussy  :aah

agrajag

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« Reply #1280 on: May 18, 2018, 01:04:22 PM »
Redistribution of wealth : :holeup

Redistribution of pussy  :aah

Forced monogamy  :rejoice

Messo vindicated

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« Reply #1281 on: May 18, 2018, 01:19:28 PM »
Snark all you want but if you were half as smart as you think you are you'd understand why kobolds live  in old mines.

Brehvolution

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« Reply #1282 on: May 18, 2018, 01:32:19 PM »
Kobolds are easily disposed of with low level weaponry. #NoThreat  :esports
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« Reply #1283 on: May 18, 2018, 01:34:17 PM »
Sorry, he dives so deep in to the IDEA of a subject that it utterly consumes him

He's kind of like the smart guy version of Eddie Bravo, who hears something or watches one clip and becomes an expert and obsessed with something so fucking stupid that he doesn't even understand, which makes you then question how anyone follows him in any meaningful way.

$80,000 a month through Patreon because his audience of resentful white men love this shit probably also helps focus the mind.

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« Reply #1284 on: May 18, 2018, 02:23:06 PM »
Either way, even if you think he is talking nonsense, it is highly unlikely it is some kind of dog whistling to Nazis. I'm not sure if that is the angle you are coming at it by linking that stuff, but I doubt that is what he is doing. That in itself is kind conspiratorial thinking.

I don't think he's a fascist, but he uses the term to generalise and discredit academia, activist movements and other groups he lumps in with the post-modern neo-marxist gang as ruining society, in a way that parallels with historic use by some pretty distasteful groups. I doubt it's an intentional dog-whistle to the nazi conspiracy theory, but like et spamming pics of people dead and starving at the hands of communism, there's a strong pathos in his argument.

He definitely dislikes the use of intersectionality in framing issues, the problem for him he sees it as increasing tribalism in his eyes instead of resolving it. But it's only a part of his pathos. He mis-characterises intersectional thought and diversity to make a case for individualism. Slightly incongruous with his focus on white privilege making it harder for white people to act successfully as individuals due to unfairly being blamed for minority marginalisation and the (possible, he makes clear to point out) misdeeds of our ancestors, also his penchant for generalization of opposing groups as swathes of sheeple suckling at the post-modern neo-marxist teet.


if yt tag doesnt link properly, starts at 1h37m38s

To paraphrase Peterson here, and this is getting into his conclusion; there are more differences within the defined groups than between them, and the diversity creates more division than inclusivity.

And again, he is so frustrated, and just can't understand why post-modernists have made the canonical distinctions they've made: Gender, Ethnicity, Sexual Proclivity and Gender Identity. These dimensions across which the post-modern neo-marxists have defined people are too narrow. The post-modern need to separate, label and categorise people into these separate groups, this constant search for; and institutionalization, of diversity through initiatives like affirmative action, simply creates more division and tribalism. Individualism is the only answer.

Clearly cheeky pete is making a bit of a joke here, these are the lines down which the most clear discriminations have been made against people as groups regardless of their individual attributes. Surely he at least see's the logic of why those groups were targeted? I've seen etoilet use this whataboutism in the past. Where do you stop taking marginalisation based on difference into account?

"here's some ways people differ! intelligence, temperament (haha, hohoho  :lol), geography, historical time (yes he explains: you live now and not 100 years ago), attractiveness, youth, health, sex (as in having it); women have advantages, men have advantages, maybe one has more than the other - it's not self evident! women live about 8 years longer than men, they're multi-orgasmic (you sly-dog peterson), athleticism, wealth, family-structure, friendship (how many friends you have. sad), and education. WHY NOT THOSE OTHER DIMENSIONS?" Peterson finally asks, exasperated. The other dimensions being the "post-modernist" defined, Gender, Ethnicity, Sexual Proclivity and Gender Identity.

Peterson claims ignorance to why Race is considered a key point of difference. Not just disingenuous, but also mischaracterizes the issue: there is a lot of compassion and assistance provided for the lesser-abled (physically and mentally), the less wealthy and those with poor education. Particularly so in the more social leaning side of social capitalist democracies.

This is over two hours long so I don't have time. Based on your summary though there are certain things I would probably agree with.

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To paraphrase Peterson here, and this is getting into his conclusion; there are more differences within the defined groups than between them, and the diversity creates more division than inclusivity.

This here I think I probably agree with. Maajid Nawaz for instance often speaks about the 'minority within the minority'. This is in the context of the Muslim community. Within the Muslim community there are liberal Muslims, gay Muslims, Muslim feminists, ex-Muslims, Muslim reformers, and so on. The problem with identity politics is,  the minorities within the minority often don't get heard. Yet these are actually the most vulnerable. These are the people who are often oppressed within their own community. Surely these are people the Left should speaking out for the most, but they don't because it is construed as attacking the group as a whole. And so what happens is they end up elevating voices that ironically hold views that are opposite to the values the Left supposedly holds, and demonises the voices they should be supporting. It's nuts.

The video is titled as 'Marxism' yet I actually wish the Left still held similar views that actual more classical Marxists did in the 60s and 70s. These ideas are actually actively pushed back on by the Left now. Marxism was universalist. It didn't concern itself with race, sexuality, or any other identity people organise around. At least not in the same way they do now. Marxism seeked to form solidarity around a shared common humanity. And of course why wouldn't they? If you're looking to form a large group strong enough to overthrow a government, you have to be able to rally people under a common cause. Indentiy politics is counter-productive.

The other thing is, Marxists would never push a victimhood mentality and notions of vulnerability in the way the Left does now. This is exactly what the Left has done by introducing safe spaces, micro-agressions, trigger waarnings and so on. Left-wing students regularly talk about how their entire existence is threatened simply by someone from the opposite end of the political spectrum speaking. That mere words are devastating enough that whole groups of people need to be protected from it or else they will not be able to function. Again, this is the exact opposite of Marxism. Whaat use are people like that? Marxist believed that humans had a shared capacity for self-governance and autonomy. It championed and encouraged the idea that we should be strong, robust, and able to engage in the public sphere. A victim is not able to engage within the public sphere. A victim cannot be an actor, they're people acted upon. What use is that to the cause?

That said, I don't get the hate for Peterson. You people act as if there is nothing to what he says. He's not on to nothing. Sure, you caan be critical of specific views, and disaagree with some of the things he says, but I don't think he is wrong about everything. In fact very rarely is someone right about everything.
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 02:37:17 PM by Leadbelly »

shosta

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« Reply #1285 on: May 18, 2018, 02:39:17 PM »
I actually wish the Left still held similar views that actual more classical Marxists did in the 60s and 70s
ah yes, the classical age of Marxism, which culminated in Woodstock
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« Reply #1286 on: May 18, 2018, 02:43:10 PM »
And the Civil Rights Movement. In any case, it is the ideas I mentioned which I think were actually good, rahter than the entirety. You can agree with some things and disagree with others.

agrajag

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« Reply #1287 on: May 18, 2018, 02:43:29 PM »
Can't wait for Etiolate come back and dish us all L's
spoiler (click to show/hide)
in form of child torture porn
[close]

shosta

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« Reply #1288 on: May 18, 2018, 02:50:25 PM »
And the Civil Rights Movement. In any case, it is the ideas I mentioned which I think were actually good, rahter than the entirety. You can agree with some things and disagree with others.
Wait, I need more explanation of this. You wish the left was still driven by "classical marxists" because they were driven by the unifying principle of class, rather than identity politics, and you think this is best demonstrated by the civil rights movement and leftist politics in the 60s and 70s, which is partially but significantly characterized by the blossoming of all kinds of racially identarian political movements and wacko new age communistic, anarchistic, terrorist groups that kidnapped and bombed people?
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Leadbelly

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« Reply #1289 on: May 18, 2018, 02:59:07 PM »
And the Civil Rights Movement. In any case, it is the ideas I mentioned which I think were actually good, rahter than the entirety. You can agree with some things and disagree with others.
Wait, I need more explanation of this. You wish the left was still driven by "classical marxists" because they were driven by the unifying principle of class, rather than identity politics, and you think this is best demonstrated by the civil rights movement and leftist politics in the 60s and 70s, which is partially but significantly characterized by the blossoming of all kinds of racially identarian political movements and wacko new age communistic, anarchistic, terrorist groups that kidnapped and bombed people?

I actually predicted you would say this. The civil Rights was a form of Identity Politics and obviously a necessary one. Anti-racism was more universalist and colour blind in its approach though back then. As Martin Luther King Jr said, "my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.” It is the exact opposite now. In fact comments like, "I don't see race" is often seen as a microagression. In other words Indentity Politics now creates division between peoples when Left-wing politics of the past was about universalism. That we had a shared humanity.

In terms of Martin Luther King, his attention moved from race to class. This was around the time he was assassinated. Some speculate that was why he was assassinated. Organising around class was seen as a much greater danger.

shosta

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« Reply #1290 on: May 18, 2018, 03:03:15 PM »
*looks at list of things I'll never do again, sees "debate what MLK Jr would have thought about modern identity politics"*

I'm gonna have to bow out of this one brother, have fun
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« Reply #1291 on: May 18, 2018, 03:09:47 PM »
*looks at list of things I'll never do again, sees "debate what MLK Jr would have thought about modern identity politics"*

I'm gonna have to bow out of this one brother, have fun

Wasn't intending to debate it. :p


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« Reply #1292 on: May 18, 2018, 03:13:45 PM »
I actually predicted you would say this. The civil Rights was a form of Identity Politics and obviously a necessary one. Anti-racism was more universalist and colour blind in its approach though back then. As Martin Luther King Jr said, "my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.” It is the exact opposite now. In fact comments like, "I don't see race" is often seen as a microagression. In other words Indentity Politics now creates division between peoples when Left-wing politics of the past was about universalism. That we had a shared humanity.

Quote from: Martin Luther King, Letter from a Birmingham Jail
I MUST make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

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« Reply #1293 on: May 18, 2018, 03:17:10 PM »
Wonder what Patreon level etoilet is for Peterson. "The Way Things Used to Be," "Proud Boi," or "Incel"???
yar

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« Reply #1294 on: May 18, 2018, 03:29:19 PM »
In terms of Martin Luther King, his attention moved from race to class. This was around the time he was assassinated. Some speculate that was why he was assassinated. Organising around class was seen as a much greater danger.

First of all, it's fucking wild to suggest that organizing for racial equality wasn't seen as dangerous in the 50's and 60's. Tell that to Medgar Evars, or Chaney, Goodman, and Schwerner. Civil rights activists were literally trained on how to best survive police brutality.

Second...

Quote from: Martin Luther King, in 1968, the year he was assassinated
Now there is another myth that still gets around: it is a kind of over reliance on the bootstrap philosophy. There are those who still feel that if the Negro is to rise out of poverty, if the Negro is to rise out of the slum conditions, if he is to rise out of discrimination and segregation, he must do it all by himself. And so they say the Negro must lift himself by his own bootstraps.

They never stop to realize that no other ethnic group has been a slave on American soil. The people who say this never stop to realize that the nation made the black man’s color a stigma. But beyond this they never stop to realize the debt that they owe a people who were kept in slavery two hundred and forty-four years.

In 1863 the Negro was told that he was free as a result of the Emancipation Proclamation being signed by Abraham Lincoln. But he was not given any land to make that freedom meaningful. It was something like keeping a person in prison for a number of years and suddenly discovering that that person is not guilty of the crime for which he was convicted. And you just go up to him and say, "Now you are free," but you don’t give him any bus fare to get to town. You don’t give him any money to get some clothes to put on his back or to get on his feet again in life.

Every court of jurisprudence would rise up against this, and yet this is the very thing that our nation did to the black man. It simply said, "You’re free," and it left him there penniless, illiterate, not knowing what to do. And the irony of it all is that at the same time the nation failed to do anything for the black man, though an act of Congress was giving away millions of acres of land in the West and the Midwest. Which meant that it was willing to undergird its white peasants from Europe with an economic floor.

But not only did it give the land, it built land-grant colleges to teach them how to farm. Not only that, it provided county agents to further their expertise in farming; not only that, as the years unfolded it provided low interest rates so that they could mechanize their farms. And to this day thousands of these very persons are receiving millions of dollars in federal subsidies every years not to farm. And these are so often the very people who tell Negroes that they must lift themselves by their own bootstraps. It’s all right to tell a man to lift himself by his own bootstraps, but it is a cruel jest to say to a bootless man that he ought to lift himself by his own bootstraps.

We must come to see that the roots of racism are very deep in our country, and there must be something positive and massive in order to get rid of all the effects of racism and the tragedies of racial injustice.

I'm going to go ahead and say he wasn't moving in a colorblind direction there. Yes, he was organizing for sanitation workers in Memphis and yes, he saw an alliance of labor and the civil rights movement as important. But that wasn't new (it was the March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom where he delivered the "I Have a Dream" speech) and it certainly didn't displace or minimize his organizing for explicit racial justice.

Leadbelly

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« Reply #1295 on: May 18, 2018, 03:40:42 PM »
I actually predicted you would say this. The civil Rights was a form of Identity Politics and obviously a necessary one. Anti-racism was more universalist and colour blind in its approach though back then. As Martin Luther King Jr said, "my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.” It is the exact opposite now. In fact comments like, "I don't see race" is often seen as a microagression. In other words Indentity Politics now creates division between peoples when Left-wing politics of the past was about universalism. That we had a shared humanity.

Quote from: Martin Luther King, Letter from a Birmingham Jail
I MUST make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the last few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizens Councillor or the Ku Klux Klanner but the white moderate who is more devoted to order than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says, "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically feels that he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time; and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

This is kind of pointless. I am assuming you're using this as evidence that King was not a universalist? This is a letter that is probably relevant to the general issues present in that moment. People express different thoughts and emotions depending on the things facing them in that moment.

I can do this too:

Quote
“We have inherited a big house, a great “world house” in which we have to live together – black and white, Easterners and Westerners, Gentiles and Jews, Catholics and Protestants, Moslem and Hindu, a family unduly separated in ideas, culture, and interests who, because we can never again live without each other, must learn, somehow, in this one big world, to live with each other. This means that more and more our loyalties must become ecumenical rather than sectional. We must now give an overriding loyalty to mankind as a whole in order to preserve the best in our individual societies.”

Anti-racism and Left-wing politics was more universalist in the past. That's the point really being made here.

Mandark

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« Reply #1296 on: May 18, 2018, 04:00:18 PM »
It's clear you know very little about the CRM, but you have no hesitation to make broad assertions about it, with the sole purpose of making current anti-racist politics look worse by comparison.

Maybe take a minute and think about why you're doing that.

Leadbelly

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« Reply #1297 on: May 18, 2018, 04:06:38 PM »
It's clear you know very little about the CRM, but you have no hesitation to make broad assertions about it, with the sole purpose of making current anti-racist politics look worse by comparison.

Maybe take a minute and think about why you're doing that.

Er? What are you talking about? Just out of curiosity, ever heard of the PPC?


Mandark

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« Reply #1298 on: May 18, 2018, 04:12:26 PM »
Er? What are you talking about?

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

You're bringing up MLK only as a rhetorical cudgel against current anti-racist activism. Why?

Mandark

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« Reply #1299 on: May 18, 2018, 04:13:24 PM »
Let's make it simpler.

What's more of a problem right now: anti-black racism, or anti-racist tactics?

Leadbelly

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« Reply #1300 on: May 18, 2018, 04:21:55 PM »
Let's make it simpler.

What's more of a problem right now: anti-black racism, or anti-racist tactics?

I think anti-racist tactics a counter-productive. This isn't a debate I wanted to get it in to quite frankly. I simply believe the approach to social justice in general, not just racism, is wrong and counter-productive. It's not about what is or isn't more of a problem, it is about what is the most effective way to taackle the isuues facing us today.




Mandark

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« Reply #1301 on: May 18, 2018, 04:22:59 PM »
Between the two, which do you think is the greater problem?

Leadbelly

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« Reply #1302 on: May 18, 2018, 04:31:12 PM »
Between the two, which do you think is the greater problem?

What relevance does this have?

My original post was about what I think the good aspects of Marxist thought were. Something that is actually counter to modern Leftist thought. And it was kind of in response to a Peterson video.

It isn't about what is the greater problem. This is a false dichotomy. You have a problem and you have methods in dealing with that problem. It makes no seense to say, racism is a problem therefore you must accept the methods in dealing with said problem are the correct ones.





Mandark

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« Reply #1303 on: May 18, 2018, 04:37:02 PM »
Sorry. My fault. I'll rephrase it.

What's more of a problem right now: anti-black racism, or anti-racist tactics?

Leadbelly

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« Reply #1304 on: May 18, 2018, 04:53:23 PM »
Sorry. My fault. I'll rephrase it.

What's more of a problem right now: anti-black racism, or anti-racist tactics?

That hasn't changed anything. I kind of already addressed the problem with these two options.

If I were to say anti-black racism then what? What's the point?

If I were to say anti-racist tactics? What's the point?

They're not mutually exclusive so whether I choose racism or not, it has no bearing on whether the methods used are counter-productive or not counter-productive. That point holds regardless. Do you understand? I don't get it.

Oblivion

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« Reply #1305 on: May 18, 2018, 04:58:01 PM »
Quote
Mr. Peterson stresses the importance of cleanliness, but honestly his office is a mess.

Of fucking course.

Great Rumbler

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« Reply #1306 on: May 18, 2018, 05:16:14 PM »
Can't imagine why he's always so miserable and looking/sounding like he's on the verge of tears when he made wallpaper out of etoilet's Holodomor spam and his place is a mess.

He also lives in fear of Marxism and witches, so that probably doesn't help.
dog

Assimilate

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« Reply #1307 on: May 18, 2018, 05:39:12 PM »
Quote
Mr. Peterson stresses the importance of cleanliness, but honestly his office is a mess.

Of fucking course.
His office being a mess is a lot different than his house being a mess. A lot of professors have messy offices. The level of the hysterically stupid in this place sometimes borderlines that of REEs.

Oblivion

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« Reply #1308 on: May 18, 2018, 05:41:07 PM »
Quote
Mr. Peterson stresses the importance of cleanliness, but honestly his office is a mess.

Of fucking course.
His office being a mess is a lot different than his house being a mess. A lot of professors have messy offices. The level of the hysterically stupid in this place sometimes borderlines that of REEs.

So make sure your room is clean before you go out and change the world but it's okay if everything else in your life is messy?

Assimilate

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« Reply #1309 on: May 18, 2018, 05:44:48 PM »
Quote
Mr. Peterson stresses the importance of cleanliness, but honestly his office is a mess.

Of fucking course.
His office being a mess is a lot different than his house being a mess. A lot of professors have messy offices. The level of the hysterically stupid in this place sometimes borderlines that of REEs.

So make sure your room is clean before you go out and change the world but it's okay if everything else in your life is messy?
What is everything else in his life that is messy? Stop fucking reaching. Seriously, the guy talks about allegories and you all have a wank fest because he said shit about witches.

Frankly, i find it funny that most of you, from what i gather from posts made on various threads here,  need this guy. A lot of you are either unemployed,  or work a low level job, and are sexually frustrated white males.

hahahaha. the irony   :doge

Oblivion

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« Reply #1310 on: May 18, 2018, 05:49:37 PM »
Quote
Mr. Peterson stresses the importance of cleanliness, but honestly his office is a mess.

Of fucking course.
His office being a mess is a lot different than his house being a mess. A lot of professors have messy offices. The level of the hysterically stupid in this place sometimes borderlines that of REEs.

So make sure your room is clean before you go out and change the world but it's okay if everything else in your life is messy?
What is everything else in his life that is messy? Stop fucking reaching. Seriously, the guy talks about allegories and you all have a wank fest because he said shit about witches.

Frankly, i find it funny that most of you, from what i gather from posts made on various threads here,  need this guy. A lot of you are either unemployed,  or work a low level job, and are sexually frustrated white males.

hahahaha. the irony   :doge

So I'm guessing you'll be handling shitposting duties while etoilet is away.

The "clean your room" thing isn't just allegorical, you twit. He says you should do it because it reflects on you as a person. It would be weird if he would be trying to say "ONLY focus on keeping your room clean and nothing else in life". But this is Peterson, so fuck, maybe that IS what he's saying.

agrajag

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« Reply #1311 on: May 18, 2018, 05:52:57 PM »
Talk shit about deriving meaning from a music video, stan for a grown man deriving life lessons Cinderella.

 :neogaf

curly

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« Reply #1312 on: May 18, 2018, 05:53:08 PM »
It's been obvious he doesn't follow his own advice a lot of the time, just look at his posture. That doesn't by itself disqualify his advice but it is funny to note.

Assimilate

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« Reply #1313 on: May 18, 2018, 05:55:20 PM »
Quote
Mr. Peterson stresses the importance of cleanliness, but honestly his office is a mess.

Of fucking course.
His office being a mess is a lot different than his house being a mess. A lot of professors have messy offices. The level of the hysterically stupid in this place sometimes borderlines that of REEs.

So make sure your room is clean before you go out and change the world but it's okay if everything else in your life is messy?
What is everything else in his life that is messy? Stop fucking reaching. Seriously, the guy talks about allegories and you all have a wank fest because he said shit about witches.

Frankly, i find it funny that most of you, from what i gather from posts made on various threads here,  need this guy. A lot of you are either unemployed,  or work a low level job, and are sexually frustrated white males.

hahahaha. the irony   :doge

So I'm guessing you'll be handling shitposting duties while etoilet is away.

The "clean your room" thing isn't just allegorical, you twit. He says you should do it because it reflects on you as a person. It would be weird if he would be trying to say "ONLY focus on keeping your room clean and nothing else in life". But this is Peterson, so fuck, maybe that IS what he's saying.
You're taking his words to the extreme. It doesn't mean he won't have a messy office from time to time considering how often he's probably in there.

If his entire house was spotless he wouldn't be clean, he would be an obsessive compulsive person. I have aunt like that. Her apartment looks like a  5 star hotel because she obsesses over every inch and spec of dust. That's not healthy.

Talk shit about deriving meaning from a music video, stan for a grown man deriving life lessons Cinderella.

 :neogaf
A professor of Psychology that taught at Harvard most of his life. Some of you shouldn't be employed to even clean the toilets at McDonalds, honestly.

Assimilate

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« Reply #1314 on: May 18, 2018, 05:58:00 PM »
Do you know what humor is, assimilate

No.  :bolo

rough day, i should have a scotch. i'll be back in a better mood.  :heart :pimp

Mandark

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« Reply #1315 on: May 18, 2018, 06:04:53 PM »
His hair is messy, tbh

He got hairplugs, which is pretty funny for a guy who's so freaked out by lipstick.

Oblivion

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« Reply #1316 on: May 18, 2018, 06:05:28 PM »
It was a throwaway joke, Assimilate. Hell, the "clean your room" shit is one of the least offensive things he's said.

curly

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« Reply #1317 on: May 18, 2018, 06:09:42 PM »
My main takeaway from the NYT profile is that I can't believe anyone ever claimed he wasn't a reactionary

oh and that the structuralists refuted his whole theory 60 years ago
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 06:16:14 PM by curly »

Rufus

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« Reply #1318 on: May 18, 2018, 06:22:59 PM »
My main takeaway from the NYT profile is that I can't believe anyone ever claimed he wasn't a reactionary

oh and that the structuralists refuted his whole theory 60 years ago
I think that counts as misrepresentation for some reason.

Anyway, this dude also adresses that:
https://twitter.com/ositanwanevu/status/997484128667951104

shosta

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« Reply #1319 on: May 18, 2018, 06:30:32 PM »
how high in the dominance heirarchy is a man raking in $80k a month while doing absolutely nothing who tells women who feel like they're trapped in marriages with no opportunities that they're annoying and should get a hobby?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2018, 06:35:19 PM by kris »
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