General > Dysfunctional Hall of Fame
Long video discussion thread that is shit
Momo:
We all know what this thread is going to be
spoiler (click to show/hide)I really just want to talk about how awesome Stephen Fry is :ohyeah [close]
Nintex:
Stephen Fry is great. He understands what all these other 'intellectuals' think they understand.
Momo:
--- Quote from: Leadbelly on May 28, 2018, 02:36:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: Momo on May 28, 2018, 12:37:15 AM ---You could possibly have caught me out here a little, most of what I know of him is through the british press and social circles all pre the podcast/longform conversation boom. My reason for not trusting him in this context are quotes attributed to him wrt kick racism out of football, racism in general and his timing thereof, standing back and shouting 'this isnt racism it's classism' rubs me the wrong way especially in the context of football where it kinda was/is racism. He also pops up a number of times in my circles trying to argue a lot of things isnt racism and it just seems fucking toxic. I'm willing to eat crow on this, so i'll watch your video and any long form talk you may know of where he clarifies his thoughts on racism and why he does what he does.
--- End quote ---
Well, some background. Spiked has its roots in Marxism, which is what it was in its previous incarnation as 'Living Marxism'. Living Marxism closed down due to a notorious Libel case against it. You couldn't really call Spiked, as it now is, particularly Marxist. They have evolved somewhat. It maintains a focus on appealing to a working-class audience though. And so it is obvious why Brendan, for instance, would side with Football fans. It should also be pointed out that Spiked is free speech absolutist. It believes in free speech no ifs or buts. In terms of anti-racism they promote a universalist approach, again something the old-left including Marxists used to believe in. They have a strong emphasis in the idea of freedom in general, but also freedom from the state specifically. And so a lot of their arguments tend to be against policing language no matter how offensive.
In terms of his comments on Racism in football, in was in response to the Lukaku chant.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/that-lukaku-chant-its-open-season-on-football-scum-again/20349#.WwxAniAh3IU
Whether you actually agree with his stance on this is kind of beside the point though. I just don't think Alex Jones is a fair comparison. Brendan O'neill at least has a rational argument behind his stances. It's not so much about whether you agree with him, it is simply accepting there is a rational argument there. He isn't simply just talking shit, you can tell actual 'thought' has gone into it. It is the process in which he arrives at a conclusion that is important. He isn't some crazy conspiracy theorist rambling on, in other words.
In terms of what to listen to, there is plenty of stuff out there.
This for instance might give you some perspective of where he is coming from, and where Spiked is coming from for that matter.
Edit: I actually think this is a better video.
--- End quote ---
I'm 100% behind the right to offend, tbh what he said RE racism in football offended me, but I would never want to stop him from saying it. More than just that I dont find the commentary useful for anything but fueling a class war where it wasn't the primary driver, i'll walk back calling him Alex Jones, he has reason afterall. I'm however still highly critical of what he said there, not that he said it.
Stoney Mason:
whoops ignore me. carry on.
Leadbelly:
--- Quote from: Momo on May 29, 2018, 02:57:36 AM ---
--- Quote from: Leadbelly on May 28, 2018, 02:36:35 PM ---
--- Quote from: Momo on May 28, 2018, 12:37:15 AM ---You could possibly have caught me out here a little, most of what I know of him is through the british press and social circles all pre the podcast/longform conversation boom. My reason for not trusting him in this context are quotes attributed to him wrt kick racism out of football, racism in general and his timing thereof, standing back and shouting 'this isnt racism it's classism' rubs me the wrong way especially in the context of football where it kinda was/is racism. He also pops up a number of times in my circles trying to argue a lot of things isnt racism and it just seems fucking toxic. I'm willing to eat crow on this, so i'll watch your video and any long form talk you may know of where he clarifies his thoughts on racism and why he does what he does.
--- End quote ---
Well, some background. Spiked has its roots in Marxism, which is what it was in its previous incarnation as 'Living Marxism'. Living Marxism closed down due to a notorious Libel case against it. You couldn't really call Spiked, as it now is, particularly Marxist. They have evolved somewhat. It maintains a focus on appealing to a working-class audience though. And so it is obvious why Brendan, for instance, would side with Football fans. It should also be pointed out that Spiked is free speech absolutist. It believes in free speech no ifs or buts. In terms of anti-racism they promote a universalist approach, again something the old-left including Marxists used to believe in. They have a strong emphasis in the idea of freedom in general, but also freedom from the state specifically. And so a lot of their arguments tend to be against policing language no matter how offensive.
In terms of his comments on Racism in football, in was in response to the Lukaku chant.
http://www.spiked-online.com/newsite/article/that-lukaku-chant-its-open-season-on-football-scum-again/20349#.WwxAniAh3IU
Whether you actually agree with his stance on this is kind of beside the point though. I just don't think Alex Jones is a fair comparison. Brendan O'neill at least has a rational argument behind his stances. It's not so much about whether you agree with him, it is simply accepting there is a rational argument there. He isn't simply just talking shit, you can tell actual 'thought' has gone into it. It is the process in which he arrives at a conclusion that is important. He isn't some crazy conspiracy theorist rambling on, in other words.
In terms of what to listen to, there is plenty of stuff out there.
This for instance might give you some perspective of where he is coming from, and where Spiked is coming from for that matter.
Edit: I actually think this is a better video.
--- End quote ---
I'm 100% behind the right to offend, tbh what he said RE racism in football offended me, but I would never want to stop him from saying it. More than just that I dont find the commentary useful for anything but fueling a class war where it wasn't the primary driver, i'll walk back calling him Alex Jones, he has reason afterall. I'm however still highly critical of what he said there, not that he said it.
--- End quote ---
That's fine. I just didn't think Alex Jones was a fair comparison that's all. No matter what you think of him, he is clearly well read and has a knowledge of what he speaks about at least. I just think people should recognise those qualities in a person.
I will say actually, I don't always agree with him. I remember him writing an article defending Jeremy Clarkson after he punched one of his staff. He got that wrong in my mind. Where I actually find Brendan sometimes quite brilliant is in areas of free speech and Enlightenment values because it is clear he is well read on this subject and has good knowledge about what he is speaking about. He does also write good articles despite some of them where I think he has missed the mark on.
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