Author Topic: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.  (Read 218132 times)

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Tripon

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2040 on: June 03, 2020, 12:26:34 AM »
That Club der Cordeliers guy has a major hate hard on for AOC for whatever reason. Also seems to think the tradtional Dem machine is a good thing.

benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2041 on: June 03, 2020, 12:47:23 AM »
can i get the crib sheet on that section of left twitter?  im a little mystified
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2042 on: June 03, 2020, 12:52:21 AM »
 :drool
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shosta

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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2044 on: June 03, 2020, 08:51:42 PM »
People are quick to let go of their rights in a crisis but coronavirus responses and the curfews don't share some genesis in a single plan to destroy democracy, your brain has to be extremely fried to believe that.
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2045 on: June 03, 2020, 10:58:51 PM »
sometimes I wish we all fought each other instead of getting along all the time. A really irrational feud is what's missing from my life. look at the Bernie campaign! I want what they have.
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Tripon

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2046 on: June 04, 2020, 12:10:37 AM »
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1268255531371765761

This guy might be a dumb dumb.


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jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2047 on: June 04, 2020, 03:09:51 AM »
reading piketty rn and he claims marx, in discussing private capital concentration, doesn’t factor in productivity growth (esp. the kind caused by technological innovation) leading to rises in real wages. pretty sure thats wrong but idk where to look. you guys know?

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2048 on: June 04, 2020, 03:25:09 AM »
Can you quote? Is this from Capital in the 21st Century?
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jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2049 on: June 04, 2020, 03:31:12 AM »
yeah
Quote
My conclusions are less apocalyptic than those implied by Marx’s principle of infinite accumulation and perpetual divergence (since Marx’s theory implicitly relies on a strict assumption of zero productivity growth over the long run).
theres a fuller discussion earlier in the introduction but thats pretty much the long and the short of it

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2050 on: June 04, 2020, 03:41:52 AM »
idk about whether or how it's addressed in explaining capital accumulation, but Marx definitely wrote about improving modes of production (with such zeal you could make it sound like a Charlie Kirk TPUSA quote if you clipped out the right parts).

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2051 on: June 04, 2020, 03:55:48 AM »
can i get the crib sheet on that section of left twitter?  im a little mystified

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toku

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2053 on: June 05, 2020, 04:10:39 PM »
new cuck philosophy

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2054 on: June 05, 2020, 06:01:54 PM »
nvm im wrong he didn't get off easy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johann_Gottlieb_Fichte#Nationalism

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Fichte tried to argue that "active citizenship, civic freedom and even property rights should be withheld from women, whose calling was to subject themselves utterly to the authority of their fathers and husbands."

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2055 on: June 07, 2020, 03:31:48 AM »
not just sharing this article because it was written by someone called adolf jr, i promise https://harpers.org/archive/2014/03/nothing-left-2/

Quote
The atrophy of political imagination shows up in approaches to strategy as well. In the absence of goals that require long-term organizing — e.g., single-payer health care, universally free public higher education and public transportation, federal guarantees of housing and income security — the election cycle has come to exhaust the time horizon of political action. Objectives that cannot be met within one or two election cycles seem fanciful, as do any that do not comport with the Democratic agenda. Even those who consider themselves to the Democrats’ left are infected with electoralitis. Each election now becomes a moment of life-or-death urgency that precludes dissent or even reflection. For liberals, there is only one option in an election year, and that is to elect, at whatever cost, whichever Democrat is running. This modus operandi has tethered what remains of the left to a Democratic Party that has long since renounced its commitment to any sort of redistributive vision and imposes a willed amnesia on political debate. True, the last Democrat was really unsatisfying, but this one is better; true, the last Republican didn’t bring destruction on the universe, but this one certainly will. And, of course, each of the “pivotal” Supreme Court justices is four years older than he or she was the last time.


shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2057 on: June 07, 2020, 06:25:32 PM »
https://twitter.com/cordeliers/status/1269587750010998784

if this isn't art I don't know what is :lawd
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OnlyRegret

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2058 on: June 07, 2020, 06:38:39 PM »
Yeah, I like the anti-cap sentiment being nestled in for that reason.
Don't want "unions bad" or something to be the takeaway.

Uber model policing where the immigrant guard is deported for failing to reach a 4 star rating.  :lawd
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jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2060 on: June 08, 2020, 11:59:38 PM »
since things seem to have died down a little bit, i wanted to set down some thoughts about two things ive gone through in quarantine, the first is Capital vol. 1. not a ton novel to say about it, just a couple tidbits that struck me. the first is from the preface where he lifts a large passage from a review of an early edition of Capital:
Quote
Marx only concerns himself with one thing : to show, by an exact scientific investigation, the necessity of successive determinate orders of social relations, and...
For this it is quite enough, if he proves, at the same time, both the necessity of the present order of things, and the necessity of another order into which the first must inevitably pass over ; and it is a matter of indifference whether men believe or do not believe it, whether they are conscious of it or not. Marx treats the social movement as a process ofnatural history, governed by laws not only independent of human will, consciousness and intelligence, but rather, on the contrary, determining that will, consciousness and intelligence...
which he moves on from, seemingly accepting the whole passage as a reasonable reading of his work. so it seems like all the hoopla over the Engelsian deterministic phil of history being a later accretion in the marxist tradition is a little overstated. it appears like there’s already a fair amount of diamat inside marx’s original histmat. relatedly, in the meat of the book as he’s introducing manufacture as it influenced modes of production:
Quote
We are concerned here only with broad and general characteristics, for epochs in the history of society are no more separated from each other by strict and abstract lines of demarca­tion than are geological epochs.
which adds an interesting wrinkle in his realism wrt periodization. epochs have to act as compartments of sorts which contain sets of, e.g., nomothetic laws that obtain given the conditions that constitute that epoch (and these conditions are themselves products of other nomothetic laws that obtained in earlier epochs). so far, pretty paint by the numbers histmat. but if the lines of demarcation aren’t strict, it gets trickier to identify when the conditions are sufficiently constituting an epoch distinct from all the others. it’s a much more attenuated realism than i think often gets attributed to him. and speaking of attenuation, what surprised me the most:
Quote
We presuppose labour in a form in which it is an exclusively human characteristic. A spider conducts operations which resemble those of the weaver, and a bee would put many a human architect to shame by the construction of its honeycomb cells. But what distinguishes the worst architect from the best of bees is that the architect builds the cell in his mind be­ fore he constructs it in wax. At the end of every labour process, a result emerges which had already been conceived by the worker at the beginning, hence already existed ideally. Man not only effects a change of form in the materials of nature ; he also realizes [ver­ wirklicht] his own purpose in those materials. And this is a purpose he is conscious of, it determines the mode of his activity with the rigidity of a law, and he must subordinate his will to it. This sub­ordination is no mere momentary act. Apart from the exertion of the working organs, a purposeful will is required for the entire duration of the work. This means close attention. The less he is attracted by the nature of the work and the way in which it has to be accomplished, and the less, therefore, he enjoys it as the free play of his own physical and mental powers, the closer his attention is forced to be.
in this account of intentionality, he couldn’t be more explicit that, at the micro level, mental activity is irreducibly involved in casual series that include physical activity. what’s more, he employs it here as the lynchpin argument for his anthropology -how the human is distinguished from other animal life- plugging it into his account of homo faber (itself obviously the cornerstone of his account of human flourishing). this is a much more qualified variety of materialism than you’d initially expect if your only exposure to the materialism-idealism debate was through the way that marxists talk about it. i think this opens up an interesting dialogue, if not rapprochement, with his sources; i’ve longtime been of a mind that hegel’s ontology, esp. wrt the social and the political, is usually only crudely understood and is much closer to a marbled ontology full of physical, mental, and mental but non-rational causes. if that’s true then the gap between the two is a lot closer than is usually taken to be the case in polemics

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2061 on: June 09, 2020, 01:45:07 AM »
second book was piketty’s Capital in the Twenty-First Century

finished it today, and i feel really bummed that i hadn’t jumped on it sooner. ive been disillusioned from a lot of neoclassical economic work over the past ~3 years, largely because ive found practicing neoclassicals to have tendencies to be i) staunch chauvinists wrt other disciplines, meaning a lot of them dont give a fuck about the purported explanatory force of something that doesnt jive with, frankly, a fairly narrow construal of mathematical modeling of social behavior; ii) hyperuncritical or unaware of the instruments they load into their projects just to get them off the ground, both theoretical, like marginal utility and ratex, and the normative implications, if any, those theoretical instruments entail -this is esp. noticeable when they try to take the map and try to place it over the terrain. piketty’s book is in no small way intended to combat both, while delivering something of a coup de grace to the discipline’s history as a mill for, let’s be real, market and proprietarian apologia.*

there are really just 3 important takeaways that generate the book’s entire content. 1) the rate of return on capital will always outpace the rate of growth in any national economy and the only reason we didnt know this already was because huge exogenous shocks happened in the twentieth century that muck up the data (and also because compiling that data is super arduous and we currently cant even measure a lot of wealth because it’s being intentionally hidden). 2) the capital/income ratio β, or the savings rate over the growth rate, historically maps pretty cleanly onto how concentrated the wealth was in any given society. the growth rate wont shoot up again in the developed world in the next two centuries, and there are no institutions in place to prevent this inegalitarianism from growing to the point that β stops increasing because the top few centiles literally cant acquire wealth fast enough to replace the depreciation of their existing wealth. 3) the only ways to both combat public deficits and head off 2) from causing nations to go to war in the streets and falling into the ‘identitarian trap’ are inflation, which is too unreliable, austerity, which lmao, and the final option which is just fucking taxing inheritance and capital at modest progressive rates.

the book reads like an historical statistics compilation, not an econ book; he’s hidden all the econ literature he’s in dialogue with in an online appendix. stupid readable and actually probably right. tons of nice tidbits, like flaying pareto for being an asshole who naturalized inequality. even ends up vindicating marx a little bit wrt infinite accumulation. one bit where he’s describing how, when people were looking at the foreign assets data, a statistic that is by definition zero-sum, all of the developed countries literally had negative balances because all the fucking wealth is in tax havens who won’t divulge information on their accounts :neogaf. the literature he cited claimed that the lower-bound is 10% of GLOBAL GDP being unreachable :oreilly.

i picked up his new one and will report when im done

*what it doesnt do, and reasserts, is a third tendency endemic to the profession, a faith in the world’s radical intelligibility. which im not in principle completely opposed to, but i do really distaste how narrow the profession thinks the scope of what there is to know is and how straightforward manipulating the world is, which informs their seemingly indefatigable technocratic streak.

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2062 on: June 09, 2020, 01:53:37 AM »
Haven't read Piketty but I remember after that book came out people on the right very suddenly decided that land wasn't capital.

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2063 on: June 09, 2020, 02:18:03 AM »
a lot of them dont give a fuck about the purported explanatory force of something that doesnt jive with, frankly, a fairly narrow construal of mathematical modeling of social behavior
My favorite example of this that happened in the aftermath of that book is the Summers critique of Piketty that r > g implies something that conflicts with the econometric estimates of the elasticity of substitution between capital and labor... but those studies presuppose that the model is an accurate description of how the economy actually works! A model where there is one single gelatinous good called capital (measured in what, leets? as Joan Robinson would say). If the model doesn't agree with the stylized facts, and the stylized facts are pretty indisputable here, the model should just be thrown out. The critique is completely backwards. It wouldn't happen in any other discipline.

Btw if you want to read some interesting papers related to income distribution, there are quite a few in the second half of this article
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2064 on: June 09, 2020, 02:19:14 AM »
Haven't read Piketty but I remember after that book came out people on the right very suddenly decided that land wasn't capital.
property is broader than capital because only the latter is productive and that makes the analysis vulnerable to asset price inflation or Tobin's q going up, which has happened because brrrr
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jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2065 on: June 09, 2020, 02:25:03 AM »
and oh yeah, his more recent work is deliberately broader in scope. the upshot is that demographic trends since the mid-twentieth century have caused the emerging political conflict to be an intra-elite one and that class-based coalitions are harder to consolidate than they used to be. in no small part because of those social services the old class based coalitions won. so there’s a business right who’s interested in rent-seeking and is willing to buddy up with reactionaries. but the opposition isn’t cleanly working class, or at least, theyre a working class that’s splayed all along the income distribution, some of whom being pretty fucking well off. but they dont have capital. if r really is >g and wealth continues to be concentrated, the center wont be able to hold and the credentialized, hyper-meritocrats are gonna eventually win a majority and redistribute the wealth they think capitalism is supposed to be securing for them. where that leaves the working poor is i guess largely up to how the coalition is built.

shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2066 on: June 09, 2020, 02:30:55 AM »
hyper-meritocrats are gonna eventually win a majority and redistribute the wealth they think capitalism is supposed to be securing for them. where that leaves the working poor is i guess largely up to how the coalition is built.
Google becomes a worker co-op... The 50% ROP is redistributed to Da Workers and now every engineer makes $400k instead of $200k. That's justice baby

I haven't read that book yet but talk to any highly educated professional and they identify very strongly with, if not the ruling class, a meritocratic class that worked hard and earned its own wealth. Everyone else should go to college and live within their means. It doesn't matter that they're not property owners (and so many of them get signing bonuses in the form of options that they kind of are petty bourgeois already). These people are not coalition partners.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2020, 02:37:12 AM by shosta »
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toku

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2069 on: June 17, 2020, 02:12:33 PM »


can't believe a pic from the spike lee movie

spoiler (click to show/hide)
lmao yes i can
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« Last Edit: June 17, 2020, 02:17:06 PM by toku »

curly

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curly

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2071 on: June 30, 2020, 06:46:20 PM »
Where's a good place to start with reading WEB DuBois

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2072 on: June 30, 2020, 07:45:36 PM »
Souls of Black Folk and Black Reconstruction. Darkwater and Dusk of Dawn are important too.

the sep has an article on him

Mandark

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2073 on: June 30, 2020, 07:54:04 PM »
Study of the Negro Problems is a short essay and works well as a sort of introduction to Souls of Black Folk.

toku

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2074 on: July 01, 2020, 03:39:23 PM »


"We need to invent new forms of larger than state co-ordination"

yt algorithim is shit like this and then clips from 90s action movies  :lol



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benjipwns

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2077 on: July 01, 2020, 09:45:48 PM »

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2078 on: July 01, 2020, 10:05:06 PM »
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2079 on: July 03, 2020, 01:53:51 PM »
 :confused

Tripon

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2080 on: July 03, 2020, 02:10:52 PM »
Libertarian with yellow fever confuses his yellow fever with libertarianism. News at 11.



jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2082 on: July 04, 2020, 04:48:28 AM »
i picked up his new one and will report when im done
finished it about two weeks back. after reflection i think id go so far as to say the two books jointly constitute what is probably the timeliest social science of the moment, whatever it’s boundaries are, that we’re living in. i mean that in nietzsche’s sense. im not aware of another intellectual product of the past ~10 years that captures and answers the anxieties of its present with more lucidity. and if one of it’s intuitions proves right -that we’re standing at a liminal moment in political history- i think later generations will look back on the two books, and Capital and Ideology in particular, as definitive pieces of scholarship, whatever their failings.

but what’s actually in it? for starters, all the old empirics from the first book, plus additional similar empirics from the postcolonial south and postcommunist east. the narrative skeleton’s largely the same, rising inequality in the 19th century, dips down in the mid 20th, shoots back up in the late 20th with no imminent signs of stopping by the end of the first fifth of the 21st. what’s different is the interpretive flesh that’s encasing it all: r > g is either scrapped or silent (i dont care to find out which is actually the case); piketty was pilloried for describing it as an inexorable law of capitalism in the first book when nothing in that book committed him to say it wasn’t simply a trend, and a rectifiable one, within certain private property regimes. and this is largely what he does in his new book. the development of inequality is explained here by i) trends and laws of political economy and ii) ideology, or, reflexive normative attitudes taken towards the distribution of goods/wealth that do work to either justify or challenge that distribution.

before your ears prick up at that causal division nota bene to the dear reader, he imagines the term ‘ideology’ value-neutrally and in some kind of robust autonomy from the economy. he means it less marxly and more de tracy...ly. ideology also splinters itself along multiple different axes: inequality, property, legal, identitarian; they’re alternately regnant or subordinate, coextensive/mutually supporting or contradictory at different periods in different places.

so much for the methodological groundwork. the main meat of the book’s in the grand historical narrative, again, somewhat carried over from Capital in the 21st Century but greatly expanded. for one, he posits that pre-modern (roughly meaning pre-industrial) societies, of whatever stripe, can be fit into a general class he calls ‘ternary’ or ‘trifunctional’. the model is ancien regime france: warrior-nobility that provides arms and material security, clerisy that produces literate culture and usually religious legitimacy, and the laboring multitude who produce everything else. how the three orders concatenate and jockey over privilege and how that all relates to the different ideological ‘regimes’ and distribution of goods in all the different cases is a lot of the fun of the book. but it doesnt last, because certain states start getting really good at centralizing administrative functions and accumulating wealth, they start affording higher tax bases which allows them to project more power which allows them to accumulate even more wealth, a lot of it having to go to enterprising members of the third estate who start corroding the ternary structure from the inside. over the long nineteenth century, the states of western and northern europe gradually dismantle the system of complementary orders, to an (ostensibly) open access meritocratic proprietarian regime, where inequalities are justified on individual prudence and natural endowment.

the first catastrophe of the 20th century is a direct result of the jockeying of these different imperial proprietarian powers. it’s horrors lead into many identitarian and two major types of egalitarian backlash in the interwar period, the former of which sparks another catastrophe less than a generation later. the two models of egalitarianism fail though. the soviet experiment pretty definitively and the social-democratic somewhat less spectacularly. piketty laments the demise of the latter, not least because it births a neo-proprietarian era (roughly, 1980-present) that’s seemingly falling into the same identitarian switch-point that it’s grandfather did. his prescriptions are aimed at transcending the social-democratic model by deepening it: worker co-management of firms; temporizing (socializing?) the ownership of capital; high progressive tax rates, esp. on capital and estate transfers; initial capital endowment in early adulthood and nods to other direct transfer schemes like ubi; and probably most dramatically, vast integration of fiscal and monetary systems. the last is mostly in his polemics contra the eu but the implication i think is global.

a lot of other tidbits but thats the gist. a lot of scholarship in the footnotes, including some verso shoutouts. my girl marion fourcade got a citation, as did katarina pistor, whose book all you guys should check out.

tis a good one, jake seal of approval

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2083 on: July 05, 2020, 02:50:37 AM »
i'm not familiar at all with de tracy but i don't understand how one can look at ideology as value neutral? i know you just shared a pretty lengthy post but can you expand on this a little please?

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2084 on: July 05, 2020, 03:45:11 AM »
the particular instances (tokens) of ideology aren’t value-neutral. you’re right about that. the fact that an ideology is present is what gets treated value-neutrally by piketty.*

in common parlance, and in some lines of thought, the term often connotes some kind of delusionary function (and the implication is that ideology is to be avoided). what i mean to say is that isn’t how piketty uses the term; for him it’s just a descriptive term of art for his historical model.

*piketty would probably say that some ideology/ies -viz. some complex or constellation of justificatory and accusatory discursive patterns- has to obtain alongside each distributive regime

Crash Dummy

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2085 on: July 05, 2020, 04:14:33 AM »
ok, that's clear. my follow-up then how does he argue it's autonomous from the economy? is he saying there's no relationship or feedback at all between the two?

jakefromstatefarm

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2086 on: July 05, 2020, 03:52:01 PM »
he doesn’t, really:

Quote from: Introduction, pg. 7-8
Inequality is neither economic nor technological; it is ideological and political. This is no doubt the most striking conclusion to emerge from the historical ap­ proach I take in this book. In other words, the market and competition, profits and wages, capital and debt, skilled and unskilled workers, natives and aliens, tax havens and competitiveness—none of these things exist as such. All are social and historical constructs, which depend entirely on the legal, fiscal, educational, and political systems that people choose to adopt and the concep­ tual definitions they choose to work with. These choices are shaped by each society’s conception of social justice and economic fairness and by the relative political and ideological power of contending groups and discourses. Impor­ tantly, this relative power is not exclusively material; it is also intellectual and ideological. In other words, ideas and ideologies count in history. They enable us to imagine new worlds and different types of society. Many paths are possible.

This approach runs counter to the common conservative argument that in­ equality has a basis in “nature.” It is hardly surprising that the elites of many societies, in all periods and climes, have sought to “naturalize” inequality. They argue that existing social disparities benefit not only the poor but also society as a whole and that any attempt to alter the existing order of things will cause great pain. History proves the opposite: inequality varies widely in time and space, in structure as well as magnitude. Changes have occurred rapidly in ways that contemporaries could not have imagined only a short while before they came about. Misfortune did sometimes follow. Broadly speaking, however, po­ litical processes, including revolutionary transformations, that led to a reduc­ tion of inequality proved to be immensely successful. From them came our most precious institutions—those that have made human progress a reality, including universal suffrage, free and compulsory public schools, universal health insur­ ance, and progressive taxation. In all likelihood the future will be no different. The inequalities and institutions that exist today are not the only ones possible, whatever conservatives may say to the contrary. Change is permanent and inevitable.

Nevertheless, the approach taken in this book—based on ideologies, insti­ tutions, and the possibility of alternative pathways—also differs from ap­ proaches sometimes characterized as “Marxist,” according to which the state of the economic forces and relations of production determines a society’s ide­ological “superstructure” in an almost mechanical fashion. In contrast, I insist that the realm of ideas, the political­ideological sphere, is truly autonomous. Given an economy and a set of productive forces in a certain state of develop­ ment (supposing one can attach a definite meaning to those words, which is by no means certain), a range of possible ideological, political, and inequality regimes always exists. For instance, the theory that holds that a transition from “feudalism” to “capitalism” occurred as a more or less mechanical response to the Industrial Revolution cannot explain the complexity and multiplicity of the political and ideological pathways we actually observe in different coun­ tries and regions. In particular, it fails to explain the differences that exist between and within colonizing and colonized regions. Above all, it fails to impart lessons useful for understanding subsequent stages of history. When we look closely at what followed, we find that alternatives always existed—and al­ ways will. At every level of development, economic, social, and political systems can be structured in many different ways; property relations can be organized differently; different fiscal and educational regimes are possible; problems of public and private debt can be handled differently; numerous ways to manage relations between human communities exist; and so on. There are always several ways of organizing a society and its constitutive power and property relations. More specifically, today, in the twenty­first century, property relations can be organized in many ways. Clearly stating the alternatives may be more useful in transcending capitalism than simply threatening to destroy it without explaining what comes next.
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i think he just uses the word ‘autonomous’ to underscore the radical contingency he thinks obtains at every moment, especially each ‘switch-point’.

i dont think anyone would bother to defend the view that there’s absolutely no causal relationship between social relations and the normative attitudes about those relations. and piketty doesn’t


Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2088 on: July 28, 2020, 12:17:36 PM »

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2089 on: July 28, 2020, 12:20:11 PM »
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Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2090 on: July 28, 2020, 12:21:21 PM »
Speaking of social fascism, can't think of a model of egalitarianism failing definitively quite like social-democracy did in World War I, but it sounds like Piketty is making a distinction without a difference there.

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2091 on: July 28, 2020, 02:48:00 PM »



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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2092 on: July 28, 2020, 03:10:10 PM »
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I was gonna go "ackshually" but upon thinking about it I can't think of many, certainly not in the last 30 years in the West at least. 40 you have Socialists in France winning the Presidency and passing some massive measures even if the economic program was discontinued two years in.

The other major one is Schröder and I'm not very on point with this but I'm sure he's probably viewed closer to Blair than success (unemployment and pensions reforms IIRC...).
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2093 on: July 28, 2020, 03:15:20 PM »
The other major one is Schröder and I'm not very on point with this but I'm sure he's probably viewed closer to Blair than success (unemployment and pensions reforms IIRC...).
pretty sure Schroder just lowered taxes and cut spending
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2094 on: July 28, 2020, 03:18:50 PM »
The other major one is Schröder and I'm not very on point with this but I'm sure he's probably viewed closer to Blair than success (unemployment and pensions reforms IIRC...).
pretty sure Schroder just lowered taxes and cut spending

I didn't explicitly wrote so but "unemployment and pension reforms" geared to "austerity", obviously.
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Kara

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2096 on: July 28, 2020, 04:35:04 PM »
40 you have Socialists in France winning the Presidency and passing some massive measures even if the economic program was discontinued two years in.


VomKriege

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2097 on: July 28, 2020, 05:51:04 PM »
Yeah that too :lol

But you know, pushing minimal monthly wage by 10% and social benefits higher than that, massive surge in credits for social/labor/culture, abolishing the death penalty, authorizing local private radios, amnesty on all "illegal immigrants" having a job, creating a tax on high wealth, nationalising a series a bank and major companies, lowering the age of retirement, shorter work weeks, a fifth week of mandatory paid leave guaranteed etc, etc...

Jospin was sort of decent but apart from the 35h work week I'm not sure there's tangible legacy there, apart from taking steps for gender equality. Otherwise it was already well on the slope of towing austerity, with less brutality.
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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2098 on: July 28, 2020, 05:56:02 PM »
We can substitute Mauroy there instead of Mitterrand, for a purer socialist resume.
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shosta

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Re: Laissez-faire Politics Thread - Praxis? I didn't play Deus Ex, sorry.
« Reply #2099 on: July 28, 2020, 06:42:17 PM »
I took a getfiscal quote and slapped it on top of a picture of the iraq war and you're getting all pedantic with it  :maf
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