Author Topic: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!  (Read 1170 times)

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #60 on: March 12, 2019, 03:01:16 AM »
I think its amazing you can think that playing the game for the first time in 2019 and nail down why its so good and different.

I like D2 and D3 as well, but they evolved so far from what made D1 so special.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #61 on: March 12, 2019, 06:13:39 AM »
Iím really surprised that the overall sentiment towards D2 wasnít disappointment after D1. Iím going to chalk up D2 as the FFVII of Diablo and D1 as the FFVI for the sake of a bad comparison. Iím going to assume less people played D1 overall than D2.

Iíll be honest. I liked Diablo before playing the first. I wasnít a mega fan of the genre. Titan Quest was the first game of the genre I played. It was okay. I never grew up on crpgs and came in late so I never played Diablo 2. Diablo 3 was my first Diablo. Before playing it I felt the genre was mediocre at best. Like, Iíd play Torchlight and thought the game sucked. But Diablo III was the first game of its kind to suck me in in any real way. I loved the game but never had any reason to replay it with another character. I loved the multiplayer and building up your character over time but overall it was just a giant rabbit hole of endlessness and the overall game wasnít lean or challenging enough to stand on its own without the addiction loop. Still, I had enough fun for it to last a while and dumped hundreds of hours into it.

At the time I didnít quite understand the hubbub surrounding why Diablo fans didnít like 3, but now I do. It was Disney by comparison of D1 and 2. Gone was the isolation and was replaced with a bunch of mercs endlessly talking. Gone was the challenge and thinking. The combat was fun and great though, but thinking that I would use for a game like Baldurs Gate wasnít present. I was curious why any crpg fan could ever find Diablo a top tier crpg franchise. It was fun and all, but where was the choice? Where was the decision making that made the genre so great?

I later played Diablo 2. I liked it far more, but it was still mostly easy and mindless. Lots of great loot, but thatís meaningless if you mow down most enemies with ease.

I gave Path of Exile a shot and it was just jank.

I pretty much just passed the pc action rpg as just not for me. Not a bad genre but not something robust like the Ultima VIIís, Fallout 2ís, Baldurís Gateís of old. I pretty much filed the genre as inferior and vapid.

I bought Diablo 1 on a lark. First of all, it was cheap. Second of all, the premise sounded fun. I was still hesitant and figured Iíd have wasted 10 bucks going by how itís considered ďoldĒ. Turns out Diablo 1 is the first pc arpg that has the sensibilities of an actual game with choices rather than shoving endless shiny shit in your face.

Reasons why Diablo 1 is the best arpg:

- the feeling of isolation is unparalleled. As you slowly descend the church you get further and further away from a safe haven and it feels like it too.

- one centralized locale and organic storytelling. Youíre not traveling all over the world and fighting in jungles or ancient Egypt Esauís country. Keep that shit simple, fam. Get in, get out. This makes the characters not only more in depth but thereís a great feeling of slowly unraveling a mystery. You donít know who the witch on the edge of town is. Turns out she just suddenly showed up the night of the attack. Details are revealed slowly. Whyís Farnham an alcoholic and whyís his mind broken? Oh. OH. Who is Lazarus? Each question is thoroughly examined as you go through the game like the fog of war in an RTS. This makes the storytelling in Diablo 1 involved. By contrast no one will shut up in D2 and 3. Far too much dialogue and spilling the beans through back story.

- Mobs mean death. In D1 you must take every precaution to make quell death. You lack inventory space but thatís okay because loot drops donít disappear when you leave the game. So you can drop something you donít need now and save it for later. Thatís a decision. Even in the early game you have a pretty big chance of dying and itís up to the player to best decide how to overcome the odds. Loot helps, but it will not save you alone.

- less drops which makes the loot you find more meaningful.

- the rogue esque singular dungeon motif really fucking works and is far more addictive than D2ís loot cycle. Being able to make it to the next floor, starting the next quest, that shit makes the soul burn.

Diablo 1 is by far the most complete game Iíve ever played in the genre and rivals the best crpgs.

TLDR: I used to think that KOTOR was the turning point for the wrpg. Turns out it was Diablo 2. Diablo 2 was the FFVII of wrprgs. I like D2 and 3 but they arenít even remotely on par.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2019, 06:31:42 AM by Cindi Mayweather »

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #62 on: March 12, 2019, 07:43:11 AM »
Diablo 2 was the FFVII of wrprgs.

This is kind of true.

I gave Path of Exile a shot and it was just jank.

Such bullshit. PoE has more in common with Diablo 1 than Diablo 3 has.

Diablo 1 > Diablo 2 = PoE > Diablo 3 > ... > Titan Quest (seriously... that game is garbage)

Didn't play Torchlight/ Grim Dawn yet.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #63 on: March 12, 2019, 07:48:48 AM »
Well, I only played PoE shortly. I didn't like the way it felt. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

Borys

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #64 on: March 12, 2019, 08:32:08 AM »
It's a "GaaS" "Live Service" type of game now but don't mind it and just play the 10 Acts. It's really, really good. And free!

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #65 on: March 12, 2019, 09:17:22 AM »
Grim Dawn is pretty good. Takes a lot of what worked with Titan Quest, but refines and expands the gameplay a lot. It's also a lot darker/gothic than TQ.
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #66 on: March 12, 2019, 11:08:30 AM »
One problem I've always had with D2 is how instanced it is. If I wanna save and leave, I gotta go to town but when I come back to where I left off I gotta go through the same field again. Hell, in D2, you can go teleport to town for a short, temporary reprieve to sell some items, go back to where you are and lose all of your map progress. Then there's the fact loot you get isn't saved. You'll plow through hundreds of enemies but if you need to quit and return to the game later you have to do it all over again. It's tedious and badly designed. It's like playing a fucking MMO and I have no idea how that part of the game is fun.

Diablo 1? My map is saved, my loot is saved, my items are saved despite it being randomly generated. I can quit the game and have the same mana potions I left at the store ground still there to be used later. That floor I was clearing that I left off still remembers where I was when I left off and still knows my map progress. It feels like people mention Diablo 1 doesn't have loot highlight and stuff like that when Diablo 1 is objectively the better, tighter experience unless you're an addict that like enjoys repeating content over and over.

I just don't get it. Diablo 2 is a great game and everything but fuck is it annoying and repetitive. Even playing it in single player is like playing an MMO.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #67 on: March 12, 2019, 11:49:08 AM »
Amen.

D3 is basically all about speed runs and how efficient you can get which at its core is incompatible withe the dread and horror of 1 where you descend deeper into hell and its about survival

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #68 on: March 12, 2019, 11:57:19 AM »
But I want to farm, Lager.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #69 on: March 12, 2019, 07:52:16 PM »
But I want to farm, Lager.

This is why Diablo 2 is instanced. So you can't just kill everything on a level and go back. You have to pick up what you want, go to store etc. before leaving the game.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #70 on: March 12, 2019, 08:04:47 PM »
Cracking open a cold one with the boys and doing Mephisto runs. :rejoice
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #71 on: March 12, 2019, 08:22:18 PM »
But I want to farm, Lager.

This is why Diablo 2 is instanced. So you can't just kill everything on a level and go back. You have to pick up what you want, go to store etc. before leaving the game.

Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #72 on: March 12, 2019, 09:02:09 PM »
But I want to farm, Lager.

This is why Diablo 2 is instanced. So you can't just kill everything on a level and go back. You have to pick up what you want, go to store etc. before leaving the game.

Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?

Because that'd get boring fast? I mean you can already "rush" through the acts, farming would become mindless if enemies (the loot spawners) were dead because 1) the spawns would have to be calculated by the game (taking up CPU [for the time] processing time]) and 2) there would be no "game" there if farming was just item drops after you've cleared an act.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #73 on: March 12, 2019, 09:05:37 PM »
Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?


 ???

it was a post game focussed, mmo light experience where the online component, fun in level repetition and randomly generated tile sets were the key difference between it and other cRPGs at the time
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #74 on: March 12, 2019, 09:16:28 PM »
But I want to farm, Lager.

This is why Diablo 2 is instanced. So you can't just kill everything on a level and go back. You have to pick up what you want, go to store etc. before leaving the game.

Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?

Because that'd get boring fast? I mean you can already "rush" through the acts, farming would become mindless if enemies (the loot spawners) were dead because 1) the spawns would have to be calculated by the game (taking up CPU [for the time] processing time]) and 2) there would be no "game" there if farming was just item drops after you've cleared an act.

But that just makes the game repetitive.

Why doesn't it take a page out of D1's book and keep enemies dead? Forever?


 ???

it was a post game focussed, mmo light experience where the online component, fun in level repetition and randomly generated tile sets were the key difference between it and other cRPGs at the time

Why is a post-game focused, mmo light experience good? It just leads to repetitive gameplay and a situation where the first two modes are filler till you get to the "real game". In my experience this places style over substance. Encounters should count for something. Diablo 2 and 3 feel like they're addictive for the sake of being addictive the same way an mmo would. I prefer tighter, designed experience of 1. Diablo 2 is fun, it's addictive. But I don't see how addictive means good.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #75 on: March 13, 2019, 12:12:18 AM »
ARPGs in general are meant to be repetitive, the same way Shenmue is meant to be boring. It's part of the charm of the genre.
yar

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #76 on: March 13, 2019, 12:46:50 AM »
But that just makes the game repetitive.

...That's the whole gameplay loop of the lootwhore genre, hon.

Kill shit->Loot pops out->Twink your character->Kill more shit->Finish game->Start new game+/harder difficulties->Kill shit->Loot pops-out->Kill more shit->etc.

Until you either tire or have your twinked out character that is GDLK. ...Until the season ends/character wipe.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #77 on: March 13, 2019, 07:19:11 AM »
Baal loot runs  :money

Mephisto loot runs :money

Andariel loot runs :money

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #78 on: March 13, 2019, 10:08:43 AM »
But that just makes the game repetitive.

...That's the whole gameplay loop of the lootwhore genre, hon.

Kill shit->Loot pops out->Twink your character->Kill more shit->Finish game->Start new game+/harder difficulties->Kill shit->Loot pops-out->Kill more shit->etc.

Until you either tire or have your twinked out character that is GDLK. ...Until the season ends/character wipe.

I mean Iím not saying itís not fun. I guess I prefer dungeon crawling in 1 to that kind of grind. I like closure. Your characters eventually becoming godlike and literally angels is the exact reason why 3 doesnít have the mood of 1. Surely thereís a medium between D1 and D2. Something like D3 is excessive but having a tight experience of D1 and the gameplay loop of D2.


 

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #79 on: March 13, 2019, 11:03:52 AM »
Its anachronistic to say this has always been the loop because it wasn't with D1

Its like D1 made this genre and it was about survival

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #80 on: March 13, 2019, 11:05:39 AM »
Right. Now every arpg needs the same loop.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #81 on: March 13, 2019, 11:10:36 AM »
Kill things once, make progress  :larry

Kill things a lot of times, get items to make you kill them faster, efficiently  :aah
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #82 on: March 13, 2019, 11:11:03 AM »
TBH D1 is a very different kind of game, and I feel like a lot of that is due to the limitations of the time when it was developed. Blizzard North wasn't a big deal and didn't get a lot of resources, it was made in a pretty short period of time IIRC, etc. It's mostly focused on being a survivalistic dungeon crawler and succeeds at it. To me the real loot based ARPG genre starts with D2. At heart they're very different games and I almost feel like comparing them is counter productive. They both succeed wildly at what they're trying to do, they're just trying to do two different things.
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #83 on: March 13, 2019, 11:16:39 AM »
I feel like thereís two kinds of diablo fans. Those who love the survival first, loot second aspect and those who love loot above anything else so they can achieve mass effeciency.

Iím not sure if itís possible to please both groups. Apparently D3 now is just about effeciency and this riles up those who like survival. D1 is all about survival and this makes it unappealing to those who want loot.

Itís not that I donít like loot - I love it! But itís only one element that helps increase survival. Surviving makes loot all the sweeter. If you give constant candy itís too sweet and it makes the search for it pointless. Iím not sure how you can appease these two types of fans because their wants appear to be counter productive when put against each other.

The only solution I can think of is making the main game about survival to the point where effeciency is a necessity.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #84 on: March 13, 2019, 11:18:56 AM »
TBH D1 is a very different kind of game, and I feel like a lot of that is due to the limitations of the time when it was developed. Blizzard North wasn't a big deal and didn't get a lot of resources, it was made in a pretty short period of time IIRC, etc. It's mostly focused on being a survivalistic dungeon crawler and succeeds at it. To me the real loot based ARPG genre starts with D2. At heart they're very different games and I almost feel like comparing them is counter productive. They both succeed wildly at what they're trying to do, they're just trying to do two different things.
And don't forget, it was meant to be turn-based until it turned out that David Brevik was the only one on the team who preferred it that way.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #85 on: March 13, 2019, 11:40:19 AM »
TBH D1 is a very different kind of game, and I feel like a lot of that is due to the limitations of the time when it was developed. Blizzard North wasn't a big deal and didn't get a lot of resources, it was made in a pretty short period of time IIRC, etc. It's mostly focused on being a survivalistic dungeon crawler and succeeds at it. To me the real loot based ARPG genre starts with D2. At heart they're very different games and I almost feel like comparing them is counter productive. They both succeed wildly at what they're trying to do, they're just trying to do two different things.

I mean thats like your interpretation and I think is wrong as Rufus said it was even supposed to be turn based and the emphasis was on roguelile not loot.

Not once have I heard "we wantes showers of loot but the hardware held us back".

And yeah i agree with they are totally different games

For me D1 is the real true diablo

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #86 on: March 13, 2019, 11:44:55 AM »
Just irks me to no end when people say the arpg genre ia about loot and repetition.

Imho dark souls is a good heir to diablo.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #87 on: March 13, 2019, 12:28:08 PM »
Although I think Diablo 1 is probably a better game for my tastes, I've never had as much fun with the genre as Sorc in D2.



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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #88 on: March 13, 2019, 12:40:31 PM »
I'm more than halfway through Diablo 1. Should beat it by the weekend. Then I'm starting a sorc run. I'm not sure if I'll play it as much as I have done with D2 or 3, though. At least not without the expansion. I have to buy the expansion somehow. :larry Might pirate it.

In the end I think it's best for me to separate it between two different games and just enjoy D1 and D2 for what they are.

Fuck D3 though.

We should all play D2 together some time. Fuck pubs.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #89 on: March 13, 2019, 04:00:13 PM »
I feel like thereís two kinds of diablo fans. Those who love the survival first, loot second aspect and those who love loot above anything else so they can achieve mass effeciency.

Iím not sure if itís possible to please both groups. Apparently D3 now is just about effeciency and this riles up those who like survival. D1 is all about survival and this makes it unappealing to those who want loot.

Itís not that I donít like loot - I love it! But itís only one element that helps increase survival. Surviving makes loot all the sweeter. If you give constant candy itís too sweet and it makes the search for it pointless. Iím not sure how you can appease these two types of fans because their wants appear to be counter productive when put against each other.

The only solution I can think of is making the main game about survival to the point where effeciency is a necessity.

Well, considering that D1 is pretty singular and every ARPG since D2 has pretty much just tried to ape D2 I guess we know which group is getting catered to

:yeshrug
yar

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #90 on: March 13, 2019, 04:01:12 PM »
I feel like thereís two kinds of diablo fans. Those who love the survival first, loot second aspect and those who love loot above anything else so they can achieve mass effeciency.

Iím not sure if itís possible to please both groups. Apparently D3 now is just about effeciency and this riles up those who like survival. D1 is all about survival and this makes it unappealing to those who want loot.

Itís not that I donít like loot - I love it! But itís only one element that helps increase survival. Surviving makes loot all the sweeter. If you give constant candy itís too sweet and it makes the search for it pointless. Iím not sure how you can appease these two types of fans because their wants appear to be counter productive when put against each other.

The only solution I can think of is making the main game about survival to the point where effeciency is a necessity.

Well, considering that D1 is pretty singular and every ARPG since D2 has pretty much just tried to ape D2 I guess we know which group is getting catered to

:yeshrug

I know they're being catered to. I'm saying I feel that both should be catered to.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #91 on: March 13, 2019, 04:05:33 PM »
Lager is right in that the souls games are a sort of spiritual successor to D1 in some ways. Of course they emphasize "absurd enemy mechanics that people mistake for dick punchingly hard difficulty" as opposed to testing skill in any real meaningful way. (DO NOT @ ME, BITCHES)
yar

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #92 on: March 13, 2019, 04:10:37 PM »
I don't like Souls much. Too much repetition. Traveling 10 minutes to refight a boss instead of putting a damn save point before the boss room is not difficulty, souls nerds. It's tedium.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #93 on: March 13, 2019, 04:16:36 PM »
i still vividly remember the arguments as to whether diablo is a better than nethack or rogue

thanks to cindi, i now realize how badly i want a game more akin to the first diablo than the countless hack and slash titles that have followed diablo 2's footprint. i just don't personally care much for loot and much prefer the randomness you encounter in a lot of the oldschool roguelikes that made dungeon crawling so exhilarating

« Last Edit: March 13, 2019, 04:20:52 PM by TEEEPO »

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #94 on: March 13, 2019, 04:20:10 PM »
It's not the same as Diablo because what is, but if you can play Shiren the Wanderer. As a connoisseur of dungeon crawlers, I have many suggestions. :snob


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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #95 on: March 13, 2019, 05:53:34 PM »
The 'clones' that spring to mind:

Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance
...and its Snowblind engine brother from another mother, Champions of Norrath. Good enough loot. Boring skills. Fun but shallow, which makes it feel much longer than it is. Noteworthy for doing console ARPGs right (and for having very sharp visuals, even on PS2). Made entirely obsolete by Diablo 3.

Darkstone
Apes the Diablo formula very closely, but has more outside environments. Bright and lighthearted. Early 3D, so the visuals aged poorly.

Nox
Zany and fast. Requires more dexterity than its cousins. Linear and static, so might not even belong here, but Westwood were gods and this game is good so fuck it. (Want to add Divine Divinity too, but remember even less about it. Similarly linear and static though. I think.)

Throne of Darkness
Samurai-era demonry. You control a squad of samurai rather than just one person, so some tactical wrangling required. Remember it having an odd upgrade and item system and I ultimately didn't get along with it.

Torchlight
Diablo set-up (hole in the ground, explore it), but has pets (to sell loot and buy potions for you) and fishing. I finished it, but it bored me to death. Remember nothing of quests and skill systems. Sequel was more of the same, but more varied environs.

Sacred
Doesn't have much going for it besides its custom combo system. ...Germany represent! (RIP Ascaron)

Soldak Entertainments's output (Depth's of Peril, Din's Curse, Zombasite)
Perhaps the most complex games on the list. Only ever played the demos (and bounced off). The loop matches Diablo closely, but they're more systemic, with less bespoke content, i.e. quests feel or are randomly generated, with dynamic objectives and time limits that actually matter and shit.

There are more recent games like Van Helsing, Victor Vran and Vikings - Wolves of Midgard, but they're in the Dark Alliance and Diablo 3 mold and are all going to be quickly forgotten.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 04:33:36 AM by Rufus »

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #96 on: March 13, 2019, 06:17:48 PM »
What about Dungeon Siege?

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #97 on: March 13, 2019, 06:47:22 PM »
Good call. Quite different from Diablo. Linear with static environments. Boring loot as I recall. It's draw is controlling an entire squad, which you will have on auto all of the time. I don't know. I think I had fun with it, but I didn't get very far into the sequel, which was more of the same, so...

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #98 on: March 13, 2019, 07:49:37 PM »
Sacred 1 was kinda meh, but I really liked Sacred 2.
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #99 on: March 13, 2019, 07:54:20 PM »
Titan Quest is another good game in the Diablo style

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #100 on: March 14, 2019, 01:23:41 AM »
Torchlight is one of the worst Diablo clones.

Grim Dawn is cool, bit Lovecraftian vibe to it
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 01:34:17 AM by Premium Lager »

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #101 on: March 14, 2019, 07:17:37 AM »
Once Iím done with Diablo 1 does anyone want to play D2 multi on bnet with me?

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #102 on: March 14, 2019, 07:38:04 AM »
The 'clones' that spring to mind:

Baldur's Gate Dark Alliance
...and its Snowblind engine brother from another mother, Champions of Norrath. Good enough loot. Boring skills. Fun but shallow, which makes it feel much longer than it is. Noteworthy for doing console ARPGs right (and for having very sharp visuals, even on PS2). Made entirely obsolete by Diablo 3.

Darkstone
Apes the Diablo formula very closely, but has more outside environments. Bright and lighthearted. Early 3D, so the visuals aged poorly.

Nox
Zany and fast. Requires more dexterity than its cousins. Linear and static, so might not even belong here, but Westwood were gods and this game is good so fuck it. (Want to add Divine Divinity too, but remember even less about it. Similarly linear and static though. I think.)

Throne of Darkness
Samurai-era demonry. You control a squad of samurai rather than just one person, so some tactical wrangling required. Remember it having an odd upgrade and item system and I ultimately didn't get along with it.

Torchlight
Diablo set-up (hole in the ground, explore it), but has pets (to sell loot and buy potions for you) and fishing. I finished it, but it bored me to death. Remember nothing of quests and skill systems. Sequel was more of the same, but more varied environs.

Sacred
Doesn't have much going for it besides its custom combo system. ...Germany represent! (RIP Ascaron)

Soldak Entertainments's output (Depth's of Peril, Din's Curse, Zombasite)
Perhaps the most complex games on the list. Only ever played the demos (and bounced off). The loop matches Diablo closely, but they're more systemic, with less bespoke content, i.e. quests feel or are randomly generated, with dynamic objectives and time limits that actually matter and shit.

There are more recent games like Van Helsing, Victor Vran and Vikings - Wolves of Midgard, but they're in the Dark Alliance and Diablo 3 mold and are all going to be quickly forgotten.

Darkstone was pretty barebones and ancient but I kind of liked it and the music on the title screen. It even has an Expansion Pack/ DLC that I've finished :) - Journey to Uma.
--> avoid, there are better games on Rufus' list.

Nox does not feel like a Diablo clone IMO... it's like a non Diablo-like action RPG? a weird genre that was before Diablo but then died afterwards?
--> treat is an experiment with 3 very distinct characters and skills and very nice 2D Sprite graphics + brilliant realtime fog of war

Dungeon Siege 1&2 are awesome. I think they are the best Diablo clones out there to be honest. Still didn't finish Dungeon Siege III but I loved the beginning.
--> must play for any Diablo fan

It's weird seeing Titan Quest Defense Force. That game was super weak and I really liked Dungeon Siege much more.

Rufus

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #103 on: March 14, 2019, 01:36:45 PM »
Titan Quest had much more interesting skills and items, but the world is static and very boring to go through multiple times. Grim Dawn has very similar systems and is probably the better choice these days. I have yet to play it, but I hear nothing but good things about it.

Oh, also, I agree with Borys that Nox doesn't really belong (or Divine Divinity), but it's definitely worth playing regardless.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2019, 03:04:19 PM by Rufus »

Great Rumbler

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #104 on: March 14, 2019, 02:12:18 PM »
Grim Dawn is very good and the world feels a lot like Diablo [dark and brooding, demonic invasion, humanity on the brink of destruction].
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #105 on: March 14, 2019, 04:18:11 PM »
Grim Dawn is great. New expansion coming out later this month, too, adds a new endgame mode
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #106 on: March 14, 2019, 06:08:28 PM »
Just that cowboy wild west level is bullshit in grim dawn tjoughy, act 2 or whatever.

 :-X

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #107 on: March 15, 2019, 10:23:07 AM »
Beat the 7th and 8th level yesterday. I stubbornly insisted on doing it all completly with melee combat. Those fuckin' archers got the best of me. Finally got a decent bow after mopping up level 8  :lol
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #108 on: March 15, 2019, 03:47:39 PM »
I haven't gotten around to Torchlight 2, but yeah: I agree with the assessment that 1 was very boring. The good thing about it is the pet being able to go back to the overworld to sell your stuff while you're dungeoning. But that's about it. Apparently someone modded D2's synergy system into the game which makes T2 better, but I wouldn't know yet.

Great Rumbler

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #109 on: March 15, 2019, 05:08:11 PM »
I tried to play Torchlight 2 years after it came out and I just couldn't get into it at all. Nothing about it really stands out enough to make it interesting.
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #110 on: March 15, 2019, 05:19:23 PM »
Torchlight 2 was interesting up until I figure out that it didn't matter what you did, all skills would eventually basically equally faceroll everything
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #111 on: March 20, 2019, 12:24:48 AM »
Speaking of Diablo-clones: Sacred 2 is pretty boring. I tried to like it, but... it's not that great. The PC port is a bit junk (since they focused on consoles? IIRC?) and it's... not that great gameplay wise, IMO.

I remember Teknopathetic making an official thread for it on NeoGAF and it sounded/looked interesting enough, but the world just isn't engaging enough for me to want to really continue playing it.

At least I got it for a $1.

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #112 on: March 21, 2019, 09:28:14 PM »
The only Diablo-like that I ever really enjoyed was Titan Quest. I played that a ton back in the day. Nothing else ever hit the right spot, but I probably should try Grim Dawn, tho.
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #113 on: March 21, 2019, 10:48:43 PM »
I enjoyed Titan Quest, Path of Exile, and Grim Dawn. I don't like how PoE keeps changing so fucking much every 3 months but I understand that's their business model, and enough people enjoy it to the point where they're profitable because of it.
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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #114 on: March 24, 2019, 03:26:03 AM »
Titan Quest is still getting expansions after it was sold to THQ Nordic.

Grim Dawn is about to get one too. 

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #115 on: March 24, 2019, 04:33:48 AM »
I enjoyed Titan Quest, Path of Exile, and Grim Dawn. I don't like how PoE keeps changing so fucking much every 3 months but I understand that's their business model, and enough people enjoy it to the point where they're profitable because of it.

PoE had a massive restructurization once that introduced 10 Acts. That was like 1.5 year ago. Since that they only added shit for MP/ PVP like new Rifts, Infinite Dungeons etc.

I strongly recommend ANYONE liking Diablo 1/2/3 to play PoE SP. It is incredibly good and rewarding. 10 Acts of pure Diablo goodness.

Human Snorenado

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Re: The all-time GOAT is back, baybee!!
« Reply #116 on: March 24, 2019, 12:26:04 PM »
I enjoyed Titan Quest, Path of Exile, and Grim Dawn. I don't like how PoE keeps changing so fucking much every 3 months but I understand that's their business model, and enough people enjoy it to the point where they're profitable because of it.

PoE had a massive restructurization once that introduced 10 Acts. That was like 1.5 year ago. Since that they only added shit for MP/ PVP like new Rifts, Infinite Dungeons etc.

I strongly recommend ANYONE liking Diablo 1/2/3 to play PoE SP. It is incredibly good and rewarding. 10 Acts of pure Diablo goodness.

Yeah I know, I've played 2 leagues since then. I just don't like how every 3 months a new layer of whatever gets added to the game, makes it too dense to keep up with. There's gotta be a happy medium between D3's "here's a ladder reset every 3 months but no new actual content except maybe 2-3 balance changes, lulz" and PoE's "yo dog we heard you liked content so here's some content to go with your content, also plz buy cosmetic microtransactions and stash tabz" approaches.
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