You know, Shinji, we really are the End of Evangelion.

[Tasty]

(Image removed from quote.)

If he can't do it, REI MUST DO IT



"...Yes let her do it."

[Joe Molotov]

(Image removed from quote.)

Alright, I guess Asuka and Rei will just die then, oh well! 

[Great Rumbler]

Shinji cucked his own dad with a clone of his mom.

[kingv]

About half way through, and have kind of spiked it for myself and I had an epiphany... AT field, it’s going to stand for anti touch, isn’t it?

Disgusting

[TEEEPO]

it stands for anti terror field

[Great Rumbler]

https://wiki.evageeks.org/A.T._Field

[Tasty]

https://wiki.evageeks.org/A.T.-A.T._Field

[kingv]

 

Whatever you weebs say.

FYI, I think we are missing at least one of the colis emotes.

[curly]

to be fair "touch" and "terror" are synonyms in the evangeliverse

[pancakesandsex]

it stands for anti terror field

Absolute Terror.

[TEEEPO]

[pancakesandsex]

[Tasty]

[OnlyRegret]

what is this 1.0+3.0 business Anno
whyyyyyyy

[TEEEPO]

[VomKriege]

what is this 1.0+3.0 business Anno
whyyyyyyy

Honestly I think Khara is just riling fans up for a laugh with those titles.

Evangelion 1.0√e=mc2 You Do Not (Not) Will To Shall To Elevate

[Momo]

it stands for anti terror field

Yes, at least, this is what you lilim call this thing. This is the light of my soul, a sacred territory in which no one may intrude. Aren't you lilim even aware that your A.T. Field is merely that wall that encloses every mind that exists?

[Joe Molotov]

what is this 1.0+3.0 business Anno
whyyyyyyy

Just what you’d expect from the master

[VomKriege]

what is this 1.0+3.0 business Anno
whyyyyyyy

Just what you’d expect from the master

I don't bloody know, fanwank something.

[Great Rumbler]

[Joe Molotov]

New teaser



June 2020

[Tasty]

WE HAVE A RELEASE MONTH

[Tasty]

Kaworu to Seele:

[Great Rumbler]

I'm as so hyped to see all the people freaking out over how this ends.

[OnlyRegret]

I'm as so hyped to see all the people freaking out over how this ends.

Twist: there is no "end".

[toku]

[bluemax]

Is this part 4 like the Winds of Winter of Anime?

E: Oh wait it has a release date!

[kingv]

This show gets real as fuck around episode 20... haven’t gotten to the last two episodes yet though.

[kingv]

Episode 22... Asuka is worst waifu.

Rei for housewife, mitsuko fun loving girlfriend

[kingv]

Ok I finished it.

Episode 25 and 26 were low budget as shit....

I think the overall theme or message they basically really hit you over the head with it in the last 5 minutes, and in that sense it isn’t confusing.

I’m not sure I would have really understood what was going on with the human instrumentality project without wikis. The explanation was super minor in episode 23 or whatever. Like I don’t think I would have remembered or picked up on what they really meant.

I’m pretty sure that all of the stuff at the end is intended to show that shinji rejects instrumentality but then they kind of make it unclear in that final shot where they are all clapping for shinji.

Imo the school scene would have been a better ending. It would be more open to interpretation about whether he undid the instrumentality project, or whether the human instrumentality project allowed everyone to create a world where they could be happy.

But then that scene is only like half animated, and the rest looks like some wack marker drawings. 😂

[VomKriege]

The Human Instrumentality Project details aren't too important to be honest. It's basically a hyperbole cosmic counterpoint to finding your identity as an individual and accept it, more or less. Makes for good horror visuals too.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

GLOBALISTS !

[close]

[kingv]

The Human Instrumentality Project details aren't too important to be honest. It's basically a hyperbole cosmic counterpoint to finding your identity as an individual and accept it, more or less. Makes for good horror visuals too.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

GLOBALISTS !

[close]

I didn’t mean like it needed more technical details about how it works.

I just don’t think it was super  clear from the episodes what the basic idea was and not entirely clear that it was starting.

Episode 24 ends with Misato telling shinji he did the right thing, and the next two episodes are basically just human instrumentality project stuff. I can understand why people didn’t like it and thought it was confusing.

Granted, 20 years later with wikis and shit, it’s relatively easy to fill in the blanks. But watching it once every week I would have been confused as shit

[VomKriege]

No argument here, it's pretty vague.
EoE does a better job at this.

[kingv]

Yeah I will watch that later this week.

[kingv]

This show really does stick with you. Despite being kind of heavy fisted at parts and poorly executed at parts, it’s got really interesting themes.

[pancakesandsex]

Just got through ep 15 on my new dub rewatch.  Still really enjoying the new performances.  It's hard to express how much of an improvement it is.  I never made it past ep 8 or so on the original dub back when VHS was a thing, and was so turned off by it, I never revisited it on DVD in full, but it's completely retained the subtlety of the original Japanese performance this go around.

[Chooky]

so i just watched the first two reboot movies for the first time and uhhhh what the fuck is the point of evangelion without the constant crushing depression?


it's impossible for me to judge it on it's own merits since it reuses/repurposes so many scenes from the show, and so it's really hard to watch the movies and come away with much besides "oh look, a new scene with the old characters." the potentially emotional moments felt unearned and uninteresting, and all the completely new stuff like the new character weren't explained and didn't add much.

sorry if this has been talked about to death, but yeah. the movies weren't boring or anything but they sure did feel a lot less interesting than the original show + movie.

anyways, i'll check out part 3 tomorrow and see if that still feels like more fanwank.

[Chooky]

oh and also fuck jeffrey epstein or whoever the fuck directed 2.22 because oh my fucking god how many creep shots of 14-year-old ass can you fit into two hours? every other fucking scene had a bunch of teenage skin and it threw off the whole damn movie.

[kingv]

Is that the one that had Asuka getting into the bath?

They even draw her like a 10 year old boy.

[Momo]

Tumbling down, tumbling down, tumbling down...

[VomKriege]

Part 3 is creator wank but it's glorious, glorious spunk visually at times, some shots are up there with EoE. It scratches that AKIRA itch.

I did scrub from my mind that the second film was really bad about the pervy shots with Asuka (up to having a meta joke about the test suit). I mostly give Eva a pass on that shit because it is not meaningless, internalizes the criticism and depicts it somewhat "realistically" as awkward, gross and with the kids being appropriately innocent about it (That whole Asuka and Kaji thing). It goes into very uncomfortable territory by the end but it is acknowledged for the fucked up thing it is. Arguably none of the weapon-grade ether in the subtext deterred creepy anime fans of buying their action figures & having waifu wars and the show is trying to eat its cake and have it too but I never felt the pandering got too overt. You had Misato being a playful tease (in universe and over the fourth wall in the "coming next" outro) only for the depiction of any intimacy getting more and more depressing.

The films and especially that second one... Not so much. I like Mari quite a bit despite how paper thin she is, but it's pretty obvious she was inserted to have new figurines to sell first, as a narrative element second (as I mentioned earlier). And there's straight up fan service and low angle shots up her skirt.

[Chooky]

alright i watched Eva 3 aaaaaannnd... what the fucking fuck was that? what was the point of all that?

maybe i'm too attached to the original series, maybe it's because i don't like most anime in general, but this whole Rebuild series feels soulless. original Eva had a central theme - the whole thing was about exploring depression against a backdrop of big-ass robots and a cryptic plot. Rebuild throws away the depression leaves us with big battles and a super contrived plot. there's no overarching theme, no bigger message, just "wow look at these visuals! check out this plot twist!" and it's fucking boring because of that. well, the movies aren't really bad or anything, just shallow. i'm disappointed, but ultimately it doesn't matter because i can go back to ignoring these movies and still watch the originals whenever.

[pancakesandsex]

My take on the rebuilds so far, is that it's a cycle, Shinji is trying to be a little more self actualized and do things for himself not for others, but still winds up fucking it all up.  While he's being kept in the dark, and everyone is dunking on him, Kaworu shows up again, befriends him, gets Shinji to open up, and once again the tragic part of the cycle repeats, but this time with a more confident Shinji thinking he can proactively change his situation.  Except in actuality, he's been manipulated the entire time into thinking he's acting on his own, and everything goes horribly wrong _again_, the impact of which we don't know until the next movie comes out.

Where the originals are about being in the midst of depression, this rebuild might be about trying to break out of it and get better, and not always succeeding.  I have to rewatch though, it's been a while and I'm going from memory.

[VomKriege]

So far the main purpose of the films (without going into the ultra fan wankery of time loops and such) seems indeed to say that it's not a matter of Shinji being more proactive to fix things. It's fuzzy and not entirely convincing but I'm all in for the ridiculously over the top sound and visuals (That asteroid Angel fight in part 2, with all the Tokyo-3 crazy defense infrastructure being put to use, every action piece and 3 and the apocalyptic weird imagery in 3). Part 3 earned a lot of good will for me with its completely nonsensical story twist that I hope can being some interesting freshness to the Shinji / Asuka dynamic. Rei also might be headed to a new direction that could be interesting. But I agree it's a lot of leads and not not much substance this far and it is more likely than not that part 4 is not going to magically realize all the potential.

The films started as completely soulless, I suspect, and Khara has just decided to have fun with the opportunity and money offered to indulge in a big self referential wank (the whole Nadia thing) and visual excesses... but then again, it's pretty on brand for Gainax peeps. The third film is overall shaky but it has some of the best framing and sequences of the whole franchise. Great use of the aspect ratio and an amazing job done with all the Eva cockpit interface as a visual element (and the use of depth of field etc). The technology fetish is similarly true to the original and one of the reasons I like it.

Unrelated aside : I probably mentioned it eslewhere but the first Angel we see Asuka fighting in part 2 (the clock one) had a radical redesign from its relative in the original series because the whole design documents for the original monster were apparently lost.

[Tasty]

Films cannot go as deep into character stuff as a series can, so the Rebuilds were always going to have to take a different tack to really suit the format. Anno knows this and he has an amazing cinematic eye.

I don't think Anno was done saying what he had to say about Eva with EoE -- he freely collaborated on that PS2 game of all things, etc. And I'm sure he was still observing things like fan-culture in the 2000s, etc. So I reject the notion that financial incentive played an outsized or majority role in the Rebuild series development.

[Tasty]

[Chooky]

die with me, senpai

[kingv]

I just finished End of Evangelion, and honestly, I like the original ending better.

I feel like EoE was actually created as sort of a fuck you to the fans, I.e. “you said you wanted more explicit closure, and I’m going to give it to you, but it’s going to be even less satisfying”. Some of the parts were obviously explicitly criticizing fan culture, but some of it profoundly changes the interpretation of the characters.

In the regular series, by the end you understand that all of these people are fundamentally broken, and there is a sort of symmetry to all their problems. The ending explores whether or not this is intrinsic to them, or whether a different world could have turned them into healthier people. And that gives Shinji a realization that nobody will help him until he helps himself.

In EoE shinji is really unsympathetic, imo. He’s just a huge little bitch.

Asuka’s redemption arc is kind of interesting, but removes all the depth from the character. She’s more interesting in the series as this scared little girl who wants attention but doesn’t really understand what she’s doing because she’s broken by having a broken childhood.

Misato loses some sympathy by her manipulation of shinji with the sex thing in EoE. In the series, I think her pass at him can be interpreted as her also being broken inside, and not really understanding what shinji needs. She can only think of trying to solve his problems in one way, even if it’s inappropriate and won’t really his problems.

I also think the more mechanical elements of the plot were both better and worse. If both Seele and Director
Ikari are trying to cause human instrumentality, it’s not clear why Seele had to invade Nerv. And all of the parts with rei turning into a giant and stigmata in unit 01 and the mass production Eva’s, just seem like nonsense. But it’s a lot more clear that everyone turned into juice and to some extent the motivation for why.

Also the dub seems very literal. Imo the best ending would be parts of EOE with a better produced ending from the last 2 episodes of the series.

[kingv]

I also didn’t really understand why shinji is choking Asuka, and then why he does it again when he wakes up.

I think in the series it’s more like Asuka and shinji have a complicated relationship, and her hate isn’t really hate and is more like neither character possesses the ability to express or process their emotions healthily. I think you kind of see that here too, but it just makes shinji into a super pathetic asshole.

[Great Rumbler]

[VomKriege]

On choking

spoiler (click to show/hide)

The final choking is very much a twisted way to make sure they're alive. Maybe in story there's a shame element with the whole jacking it off to her comatose. Can't express loving intimacy so I'll go for painnsort of thing. I think it's an optimistic one because she chose to come back and she berates him but not in that angry irrational attitude and he also ultimately accept to face moral judgement from Asuka. I don't have very deep things to say about that but I think it's more concrete and physical. The TV series always left me a bit cold because there's really no way to tell that's it's not just Shinji just putting a show for himself in a LCL fever dream. It's basically all inner talk, no acts.

The military invasion serves the same purpose, it's much more material. It's the irruption of reality, real war and real soldiers in the fairly sanitized conflict NERV has been running. It serves as a contrast and further commentary on just how ludicrous and implausible the premise of entrusting humanity to basically a high tech summer camp with surprisingly poor foresight. Same with the terrifying sequences of people getting turned into LCL.

I also prefer the meaner, apocalyptic streak overall but I know it's not to everyone's taste. And yeah Shinji get dragged pretty hard... Then again, him being apathetic and shell shocked by episode 24 is more plausible to me than suddenly overcoming a full Freud menu of traumas with an introductory group session of therapy.

[close]

[Kara]

Gendo's only concerned with reuniting with his waifu (i.e. chaotic instrumentality) whereas SEELE is either concerned with evolving all of humanity or becoming Cymeks (depending on whether or not you consider the Playstation 2 game canon).

[pancakesandsex]

The FU to fans thing is an urban legend.  The dub is not at all "literal", unless you're referring to the 1:1 use of show specific terminology, like "third children" which IS kept in tact for the first time.  The actual phrasing and dialogue outside of show specific terminology is well localized.  Accurate, but still localized.

[VomKriege]

Gendo's only concerned with reuniting with his waifu (i.e. chaotic instrumentality) whereas SEELE is either concerned with evolving all of humanity or becoming Cymeks (depending on whether or not you consider the Playstation 2 game canon).

To be fair Ikari's mother is pretty high on her own farts as well. I purged the details but basically isn't the whole idea to turn Eva into space gods / vessels / testament to Humanity / Noah's ark.

In real life you know NERV would be bursting with SEELE bureaucrats in every office right from the get go and Ikari couldn't buy a new pair of glasses without approval from 6 departements. They seemed shockingly OK with entrusting the whole project to half a dozen shady people with massive psychological issues relying on two or three pawns of questionable loyalty to puppet master the most important thing in the history of our species.

[kingv]

I didn't think it was to make sure they were still alive, I thought that Shinji was still overwhelmed by his vulnerability and his violent rage toward her because of her rejection of him during instrumentation.

That was what didn’t make sense to me.

So they can truly read each other’s inner heart, and it’s at that point that Asuka fully rejects shinji?

It just felt false to me, like it didn’t add up. It seemed clear to me in the series that Shinji has strong feelings for Asuka, and that she in turn has some feelings for him, but that both of them are so fucked up that it expresses itself in weird ways. It’s that theme of duality of love and hate, and a look at teenage (and adult really) love and sexuality and the complications that arise from people being more scared of being hurt or rejected than they are of wanting to express their true selves.

I also though her arguments Asuka makes to  shinji in instrumentality didn’t hold up well. She keeps saying “you always come to me because it’s easy” but Shinji never really came to anyone. The only time he tries to get Asuka to help him is when she is in a coma. The rest of the time he’s just crying to himself and avoiding any situation where he would have to give the help that he himself wants.

On the one hand, because of instrumentality she can see that he fired off a nut to her boob. But on the other hand she should be able to also see how upset he was when he couldn’t help her in the later episode. But also, I guess, she sees what a coward he was in EoE.

I did like the circular nature of Gendo and shinji though. They are basically the same thing and shinjis problems come from Gendo trying to help shinji by not exposing him to his problems or st least that’s how he rationalizes it.

[kingv]

The FU to fans thing is an urban legend.  The dub is not at all "literal", unless you're referring to the 1:1 use of show specific terminology, like "third children" which IS kept in tact for the first time.  The actual phrasing and dialogue outside of show specific terminology is well localized.  Accurate, but still localized.

I guess I just mean the dub is not as good as the new one then. There are a number of parts where it goes into anime robotic phrasing that’s sounds unnatural. Especially when they start talking about instrumentality stuff near the end, but also the way Asuka talks about her mom being in the Eva. It just falls a little flat because the phrasing is weird.

[VomKriege]

She keeps saying “you always come to me because it’s easy” but Shinji never really came to anyone.

Well, she's projecting quite a bit. She's the one that arrives into Japan expecting Shinji to be her sidekick and arguably she's the one coming on to him (awkwardly). There's some truth to it in the sense that Shinji might purposefully crash into her constant passive-aggressiveness to justify his self pity. In a sense she's as much as a morality pet to him as Rei. It's a toxic, abusive circle for both of them. That they both decided to come back nonetheless... Make of that what you will. I think the series finale is too Shinji centered and that the film does a better job at showing that in the Instrumentality everyone has to simultaneously try to cope. Asuka is her own pile of issues and she wasn't suddenly going to drop her pretences, no less than Shinji.

In short, Asuka is the real heroin and protagonist.

[kingv]

I do like the theme of “maybe you don’t actually want to be able to see exactly what everybody thinks”.

One of the things the series does really well is being concrete in some sense, but having things open enough to interpret it in different ways.

I like basically all the characters better without EoE. They felt more nuanced to me, like flawed people trying to cope. In EoE they felt like they were just bad people.

I also didn’t get the sense that only Asuka and shinji came back. But I guess it never really says either way.

[VomKriege]

I also didn’t get the sense that only Asuka and shinji came back. But I guess it never really says either way.

More might, or did elsewhere. Still significant she did.

[Chooky]

there's a line near the end about how anyone can come back if something something I forgot, but i see no reason to believe that only shinji and Asuka would come back while everyone else stayed together forever.