Harry Potter fucking sucked. what were we all smoking with that series?

[Lonewulfeus]

HP is a great introduction to low fantasy and still a decent story.  Just don’t pay attention to anything Rowling says about the universe post book 7 and you’re golden.  Also the cormoran strike books are great mystery novels.  Rowling’s strength was always in characterization and overarching narrative to the detriment of the little details.  I still do a read through every now and again when I’m feeling down and want a comfort read.

[thisismyusername]

i think its more she chose to world build at all rather than that she just did it poorly

I mean, it's both. But she really can't world-build.

"The wizards just vanish their poop."

Where the fuck does it it go then? The shadow realm? "*shrug*"

[Phoenix Dark]

HP is meant to be an introduction to young adult literature. Not

1) The only book/series you read
2) the only fiction you reference as a 30+ year old person
3) the only...haha remember when you guys tried to mail Deathly Hallows spoilers to my house in 2007
 

[Nintex]

I remember it bothered me to no end that people assumed I had seen and liked Harry Potter. 

Harry Potter never interested me in the slightest, it always looked like a dumb over produced kids movie to me.
And around the peak of the Harry Potter nonsense actually good shit like Lord of the Rings released which was mind blowing for 12 - 16 year old Nintex.

[Himu]

(Image removed from quote.)

slytherin are the closest analogues to literal nazis i can think of in popular fiction. this is brilliant metacommentary that op needs to hateread another book

Zeon.

[thisismyusername]

3) the only...haha remember when you guys tried to mail Deathly Hallows spoilers to my house in 2007
 

 

[Great Rumbler]

i think its more she chose to world build at all rather than that she just did it poorly

I mean, it's both. But she really can't world-build.

"The wizards just vanish their poop."

Where the fuck does it it go then? The shadow realm? "*shrug*"

It gets sent to unimportant countries in Africa, Asia, and South America.

[thisismyusername]

i think its more she chose to world build at all rather than that she just did it poorly

I mean, it's both. But she really can't world-build.

"The wizards just vanish their poop."

Where the fuck does it it go then? The shadow realm? "*shrug*"

It gets sent to unimportant countries in Africa, Asia, and South America.

Now this is TERF-y Rowling Praxis™.

Let's repurpose this thread to hate on the Dresden Files.

I don't think I know what that is.

...And that's a good thing.

[curly]

It was alright ya lit. The world was pretty fun, got dumb once Rowling felt the need to go dark in the last couple. Think I read the fourth book 20+ times over the course of a summer when I was a kid.

[Phoenix Dark]

Many of the issues I have with HP really make me come back to "but dude, it's kid shit and Rowling didn't think this through at all." Like how the world never really expands in any logical or meaningful way, or how Harry constantly makes colossal mistakes yet there are next to no consequences for anything he does.

[Tasty]

Shosta was probably born the same year Philosopher's/Sorcerer's came out (or later.)

[StealthFan]

Had to watch the last one in a homeless shelter eight years ago. I thought the magic streams was a whack ass thing to have in a huge budget film.

[CatsCatsCats]

Movies do kinda suck. Books just read in a pulpy crack bump sorta way that makes them easy to breeze through

[Madrun Badrun]

Let's repurpose this thread to hate on the Dresden Files.

I don't think I know what that is.

This should convince you to read them

spoiler (click to show/hide)

It's legitimately good.
 

[close]

[OnlyRegret]

I remember turning 10 and waiting for my Hogwarts letter.

me too, it never came :'(
fun books for kids though, gets a little weird to see adults treat it as their bible x life code

[naff]

as a kid the fantasy i got really into was his dark materials, earthsea quartet, brian jacques redwall furry shit, hobbt/lotr, the riftwar saga and yeah harry potter. was a huge lotr/earthsea nerd, but all the potter books were really fun page turners. also, prisoner of azkaban is an ok-decent movie. still seems obvious to me why harry potter was good. yeah the writings bland, but the world is a cute fantasy for sad adults/kids to escape to where they're special just for being born. very similar to earthsea, but not as good. more easily consumable maybe? not that earthsea is dense, but it's not as fun and fantastic as harry potter.

[OnlyRegret]

HP is a great introduction to low fantasy and still a decent story.  Just don’t pay attention to anything Rowling says about the universe post book 7 and you’re golden.  Also the cormoran strike books are great mystery novels.  Rowling’s strength was always in characterization and overarching narrative to the detriment of the little details.  I still do a read through every now and again when I’m feeling down and want a comfort read.

lol what

It was alright ya lit. The world was pretty fun, got dumb once Rowling felt the need to go dark in the last couple. Think I read the fourth book 20+ times over the course of a summer when I was a kid.

I reread a bunch of them as a kid too, 4th and 5th ones reread the most maybe

[Himu]

If we're dunking on YA can we all agree Ender's Game is and always was trash?

Maybe it's cause I read it as a teen after a zillion of my white american friends told me it's the greatest book ever that I came away despising it, but shit sucked.

I don't understand the enders game hype.

3) the only...haha remember when you guys tried to mail Deathly Hallows spoilers to my house in 2007
 

I'm still sorry I missed this. It was either that or the st.corny story that made me feel like I arrived after a golden age had passed.

Snorenado tried to spoil me and PD.

Many of the issues I have with HP really make me come back to "but dude, it's kid shit and Rowling didn't think this through at all." Like how the world never really expands in any logical or meaningful way, or how Harry constantly makes colossal mistakes yet there are next to no consequences for anything he does.

I have a problem with excusing bad writing with "it's for children" when we have Roald Dahl and Charles Dickens existing.

[Phoenix Dark]

I'd go so far as to say Prisoner's Of Azkaban is a legit good movie.

[Great Rumbler]

HP is a great introduction to low fantasy and still a decent story.  Just don’t pay attention to anything Rowling says about the universe post book 7 and you’re golden.  Also the cormoran strike books are great mystery novels.  Rowling’s strength was always in characterization and overarching narrative to the detriment of the little details.  I still do a read through every now and again when I’m feeling down and want a comfort read.

lol what

Low fantasy = Realistic world with some magics

High fantasy = Tolkien

[Great Rumbler]

as a kid the fantasy i got really into was his dark materials, earthsea quartet, brian jacques redwall furry shit, hobbt/lotr, the riftwar saga and yeah harry potter.

Same, brother. Same.

[Himu]

HP is a great introduction to low fantasy and still a decent story.  Just don’t pay attention to anything Rowling says about the universe post book 7 and you’re golden.  Also the cormoran strike books are great mystery novels.  Rowling’s strength was always in characterization and overarching narrative to the detriment of the little details.  I still do a read through every now and again when I’m feeling down and want a comfort read.

lol what

Low fantasy = Realistic world with some magics

High fantasy = Tolkien

Isn't a better descriptor of Harry Potter urban fantasy? Because it's not low fantasy at all.

[jakefromstatefarm]

tolkien, at least wrt other mythopoeic works, always gets referenced as low fantasy cause gandalf never turns his staff into a flamethrower

[thisismyusername]

tolkien, at least wrt other mythopoeic works, always gets referenced as low fantasy cause gandalf never turns his staff into a flamethrower

Then every DnD property is low-fantasy.

[naff]

subgenre discussion 

no1curr

[OnlyRegret]

HP is a great introduction to low fantasy and still a decent story.  Just don’t pay attention to anything Rowling says about the universe post book 7 and you’re golden.  Also the cormoran strike books are great mystery novels.  Rowling’s strength was always in characterization and overarching narrative to the detriment of the little details.  I still do a read through every now and again when I’m feeling down and want a comfort read.

lol what

Low fantasy = Realistic world with some magics

High fantasy = Tolkien

it's neither realistic or possessing "some" magics

[Phoenix Dark]

tolkien, at least wrt other mythopoeic works, always gets referenced as low fantasy cause gandalf never turns his staff into a flamethrower

I prefer the term fantasy minimalist

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

[jakefromstatefarm]

tolkien, at least wrt other mythopoeic works, always gets referenced as low fantasy cause gandalf never turns his staff into a flamethrower

Then every DnD property is low-fantasy.

you can throw fireballs in dnd, right?

the tvtropes definition of high fantasy is rough conformity to the lotr/dnd template. but one of the criteria is how ‘big’ the magic is

[thisismyusername]

tolkien, at least wrt other mythopoeic works, always gets referenced as low fantasy cause gandalf never turns his staff into a flamethrower

Then every DnD property is low-fantasy.

you can throw fireballs in dnd, right?

the tvtropes definition of high fantasy is rough conformity to the lotr/dnd template. but one of the criteria is how ‘big’ the magic is

I mean, Tolkien is high-fantasy in the sense there's a fucking magic ring that is able to be pin-pointed if put on by a massive flaming magic eye... If that's low-fantasy, then nearly everything is.

[OnlyRegret]

I think the issue is high fantasy is very much dominant over low fantasy dysentery and sparkles throwing village shaman to the point of blurring the lines of something already vague.
Need a higher fantasy class, or highest

[naff]

tolkien, at least wrt other mythopoeic works, always gets referenced as low fantasy cause gandalf never turns his staff into a flamethrower

Then every DnD property is low-fantasy.

you can throw fireballs in dnd, right?

the tvtropes definition of high fantasy is rough conformity to the lotr/dnd template. but one of the criteria is how ‘big’ the magic is

I mean, Tolkien is high-fantasy in the sense there's a fucking magic ring that is able to be pin-pointed if put on by a massive flaming magic eye... If that's low-fantasy, then nearly everything is.

as a child, and perhaps an ignorance continuing into later life because of my aversion to specifying sub genre tropes, i thought High Fantasy was a reference to a specific kind of fantasy where magic was at it's height. elves, dragons, humans, and all manner of magical beasts roam the earth. it's just normal. and low fantasy is nearing the end of the magical era where it's quite special/weird to be a magician or have magic abilities, races other than humans are starting to wane or escape (e.g. LoTR Elves are leaving or have left to another land where they won't be bothered by human greed, similar to The Witcher, and magic ability is a fairly rare thing or even legend, and magical beasts like Dragons and Giants are all but gone). LoTR being somewhere kinda in the middle, it's got a lot of magical things, but they're relegated to the fringes of society. regular non-evil folks don't have much to do with it, and the revival of big magic is the evil doer turning up the heat.

[thisismyusername]

In any case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

High fantasy is set in an alternative, fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the "real" or "primary" world.[2] This secondary world is usually internally consistent, but its rules differ from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary or real world, or a rational and familiar fictional world with the inclusion of magical elements (the more correct term for this is magical realism)

[Mandark]

The wildest thing about Enders game is that his genius siblings successfully conspire to manipulate world politics by shitposting online.

[jakefromstatefarm]

I mean, Tolkien is high-fantasy

no, youre right. what im saying is that not even tolkien satisfies all the trademark characteristics of ‘high fantasy’

[Mandark]

Air Bud is magical realism.

[thisismyusername]

Air Bud is magical realism.

So low-fantasy: Yes.meme

[Lonewulfeus]

HP is a great introduction to low fantasy and still a decent story.  Just don’t pay attention to anything Rowling says about the universe post book 7 and you’re golden.  Also the cormoran strike books are great mystery novels.  Rowling’s strength was always in characterization and overarching narrative to the detriment of the little details.  I still do a read through every now and again when I’m feeling down and want a comfort read.

lol what

Low fantasy = Realistic world with some magics

High fantasy = Tolkien

it's neither realistic or possessing "some" magics

The HP universe exists on Earth as we know it.  The story is predominantly set in the wizarding world sure but they mesh enough that it feels like low fantasy to me 🤷🏻‍♂️

[Mandark]

This just reminded me that I read like half a dozen Xanth books and even as a middle schooler I thought "these aren't very good."

It was like being 6 and watching Scooby Doo (also low fantasy) and being aware it sucked, but what was I gonna do, not watch TV?

[thisismyusername]

So what y'all are saying is we ended up in Ender's Game?

No wonder everything sucks.

And no wonder us homos can't get married, because Card is a huge closet case.

...Oh wait.

[curly]

The wildest thing about Enders game is that his genius siblings successfully conspire to manipulate world politics by shitposting online.

They did it by being Greek Statue Guys too

Locke and Demosthenes

[Himu]

In any case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

High fantasy is set in an alternative, fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the "real" or "primary" world.[2] This secondary world is usually internally consistent, but its rules differ from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary or real world, or a rational and familiar fictional world with the inclusion of magical elements (the more correct term for this is magical realism)

Isn't middle Earth basically Earth but a long, long time ago? So how does it constitute?

[Phoenix Dark]

When I think of high/epic fantasy I think of Drizzt books; shout outs to everyone who read those shits as a kid, btw, we're the real MVPs. When I think of low fantasy I think of like...The First Law.

Air Bud is magical realism.

https://www.thecoli.com/threads/air-bud-was-a-system-dog.751779/

[thisismyusername]

In any case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

High fantasy is set in an alternative, fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the "real" or "primary" world.[2] This secondary world is usually internally consistent, but its rules differ from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary or real world, or a rational and familiar fictional world with the inclusion of magical elements (the more correct term for this is magical realism)

Isn't middle Earth basically Earth but a long, long time ago? So how does it constitute?

No?

That's be like saying the Witcher universe is just Earth a "long, long time ago." (Which... sort-of, with the "Conjunction of the Spheres." )

It's its own thing. There's nothing Tolkien wrote that makes it sound like an "alternate Earth." Yes, the world has "Earth plants" and trees and other things, but then that goes into "what would be fantasy in that case?"

[curly]

The wildest thing about Enders game is that his genius siblings successfully conspire to manipulate world politics by shitposting online.

They did it by being Greek Statue Guys too

Locke and Demosthenes

Peter did it by making frenzied mental Russiagate troop tracking posts. Like Nintex with China but if anyone actually cared

there's a lot of ideology going on in Ender's Shadow

if I recall correctly the Arabs end up with Ender's buddy reuniting the caliphate because some cultures aren't compatible with democracy and that's ok

[Himu]

In any case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

High fantasy is set in an alternative, fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the "real" or "primary" world.[2] This secondary world is usually internally consistent, but its rules differ from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary or real world, or a rational and familiar fictional world with the inclusion of magical elements (the more correct term for this is magical realism)

Isn't middle Earth basically Earth but a long, long time ago? So how does it constitute?

No?

That's be like saying the Witcher universe is just Earth a "long, long time ago." (Which... sort-of, with the "Conjunction of the Spheres." )

It's its own thing. There's nothing Tolkien wrote that makes it sound like an "alternate Earth." Yes, the world has "Earth plants" and trees and other things, but then that goes into "what would be fantasy in that case?"

Pretty sure this is wrong and it is an alternate, forgotten history of Earth. It's even got Earth in the name.

https://www.quora.com/Is-Tolkiens-Middle-earth-supposed-to-be-our-own-Earth-in-mythical-times-or-is-it-a-different-place

The general idea of tolkiens work is that "things used to be better." As in, there used to be elves and hobbits and fantastical magic. A time when Man was truly great. So the idea it takes place outside the confines of this planet completely nullifies his actual content and messaging.

[thisismyusername]

The general idea of tolkiens work is that "things used to be better." As in, there used to be elves and hobbits and fantastical magic. A time when Man was truly great. So the idea it takes place outside the confines of this planet completely nullifies his actual content and messaging.

I'm going with the actual map Middle Earth has. AFAIK, there is nothing Tolkien wrote/hinted that makes the Elves going across the Ocean "oh, they're just going to Europe/Asia/America."

[Madrun Badrun]

This just reminded me that I read like half a dozen Xanth books and even as a middle schooler I thought "these aren't very good."

What a flex.

[Great Rumbler]

HP is a great introduction to low fantasy and still a decent story.  Just don’t pay attention to anything Rowling says about the universe post book 7 and you’re golden.  Also the cormoran strike books are great mystery novels.  Rowling’s strength was always in characterization and overarching narrative to the detriment of the little details.  I still do a read through every now and again when I’m feeling down and want a comfort read.

lol what

Low fantasy = Realistic world with some magics

High fantasy = Tolkien

it's neither realistic or possessing "some" magics

Low fantasy or intrusion fantasy is a subgenre of fantasy fiction where magical events intrude on an otherwise normal world. It thus contrasts with high fantasy stories, which take place in fictional worlds with their own sets of rules and physical laws.

[Madrun Badrun]

Also, I'm pretty disappointed that the Bore seems to be totally oblivious about fantasy subgenera ontology.  Like mixing up urban, low, and closet?  Conflating heroic and epic?  SMH

[bluemax]

I read the first 4 Harry Potter books in about half a week while home visiting my family in college. My conclusion at that time was that it was basically Scooby Doo with Wizards and the main character was a shitty jock. I never bothered reading any others and I cringe whenever someone remotely close to my age compares any real life situation to something from Harry Potter.

While I appreciated that it was getting people to read, it seems like they all stopped reading after and maybe we are worse off for that.

Also my youthful formulaic fantasy series was Redwall. Giving me mice and badgers with swords fucking up weasels and stoats over some garbage ass wizards.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Also I read LotR in the third grade and finish Tad Williams' Sorrow/Memory/Thorn trilogy before I finished elementary school. So Harry Potter was too regressive for me in my early 20s.

[close]

I remember reading a few books and seeing a few movies.

It's one of few fantasy franchises that have a lot of women as diehard fans. Every other adult woman I've known or dated loves Harry Potter. Even though I don't understand the appeal behind it so many years later, it's fanbase is pretty nontoxic imo.

Can't say that about many fambases.

I remember telling my last roommate that I find women my age who post Harry Potter stuff in their dating profiles to be a turn off, and he said those are the kind of girls he thought I'd have the best chance with. I showed him by dating a woman my age whose closest dalliance with fantasy was the Borgias.

[bluemax]

Yeah Orson is a chud. it's funny how Alai is the peaceful representative of Islam but ends up being a dictator, Peter and Valentine achieve world peace through debate, Beans big brain intelligence solves all these problems. They say it's just kids entertainment or whatever but is it actually good to inject kids with great man theory? just look at the irrevocable damage orwell has done to the western brain.

Ender's game was never meant to be a children's book from what I can recall.

How many of you read Card's science fiction retelling of the Book of Mormon? Because as a nerdy Mormon kid I sure as shit did.

I did not read his fantasy retelling of the Joseph Smith story however.

[Himu]

The general idea of tolkiens work is that "things used to be better." As in, there used to be elves and hobbits and fantastical magic. A time when Man was truly great. So the idea it takes place outside the confines of this planet completely nullifies his actual content and messaging.

I'm going with the actual map Middle Earth has. AFAIK, there is nothing Tolkien wrote/hinted that makes the Elves going across the Ocean "oh, they're just going to Europe/Asia/America."

That's your interpretation. The link I provided contains an actual quote.

[Steve Contra]

Enders Game is just terrible wish fulfillment writing. What makes it worse is the wish is Orson Scott Card wanting to fuck little boys.

[thisismyusername]

And though I have not attempted to relate the shape of the mountains and land-masses to what geologists may say or surmise about the nearer past, imaginitively this ’history’ is supposed to take place in a period of the actual Old World of this planet.

Interesting. But still going with my own interpretation over Tolkeins. Maybe next time, he should write about Britian instead of making a fantasy series that isn't based on "Earth" but takes "British middle-history."

I will give him props though: That middle-history is the basis for like all high-fantasy now.

[Phoenix Dark]

It is a daunting task for children to grasp both the miracles of survival and the horrors of suffering that occurred during the Holocaust. When they hear stories of survivors, how can they imagine the dark reality without becoming traumatized themselves? The fantasy elements of Harry Potter can give children a framework to safely encounter the twisted absurdity they inherit, whether directly or not. Consider the moment in the final book of the Harry Potter series, when the famous trio has to go deep into the belly of the wizarding bank, Gringotts. When they get down there, to rob a vault to save the world, they see that the vault is guarded by a blinded, beaten, and chained dragon. To avoid getting caught by bank guards, they break the chains of the dragon who moments before was trying to kill them and ride on its back to safety. Once free, the three must jump off of the blind dragon’s back into a lake, afraid that if the dragon notices that they have used it, it will turn on them. What a powerful allegory to prime kids for the absurdity of Kapos, of imprisonment, of the torture required to demean a living being into subservience, and the dangers around freedom.

[Great Rumbler]

 

[Raist]

In any case:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_fantasy

High fantasy is set in an alternative, fictional ("secondary") world, rather than the "real" or "primary" world.[2] This secondary world is usually internally consistent, but its rules differ from those of the primary world. By contrast, low fantasy is characterized by being set in the primary or real world, or a rational and familiar fictional world with the inclusion of magical elements (the more correct term for this is magical realism)

It gets really blurry for LotR (and related works) because he always meant it to be a form of ancient pre-history of the real world.


edit: lol I'm late.

[BisMarckie]

Can we do Hunger Games next?

Good luck. Shit was as fad as fad gets popularity wise. Say what you will about Twilight, it has dedicated fans that stuck around and talk about it somehow. Outside of one hunger games movie being huge at the time I haven't heard a single person bring it up once and I don't think anyone here was a 12-22 year old girl when it came out.

The first Hunger Games movie was pretty good as a blatant Battle Royale ripoff.