Ways to improve the PC gaming on TV experience?

[Nintex]

So this has bothered me for a while but the PC gaming on TV experience is still subpar after all this time.

Here's what I've tried:
- Steam TV (garbage)
- Steam link (decent but not 4K)

Here's what I want:
- Surround sound through my receiver/amp speaker set
- 4k image with HDR

Here's my current set-up:
- i7 4970k / RTX 2070 Super
- LG OLED '55 running vanilla WebOs
- HDMI cable from PC to TV
- Xbox One controller

Here's the issues:

General problems
- No HDR support (maybe related to the outdated CPU and motherboard)
- Spotty monitor detection (sometimes I have to reset my PC for the 3rd screen (TV) to activate
- When I turn on my Xbox One controller, it boots up the Xbox instead. I've synced with the USB dongle more times than I can remember (in fact I have a controller that is exclusively synced to the PC)
- Sound. Good god this sucks. Currently I have an optical cable running from the PC to the TV with an optical hub with a switch. Most Sony receivers like mine, have their optical channel on the same channel as TV sound.
On paper no big deal, in practice this means I have to plug in the optical cable, select the right sound device on the PC, run a speaker test until the sound works. Sometimes this involves resetting the receiver, PC, TV or all three in a specific order
- Performance seems all over the place. Sometimes games run smooth, otherwise there's stuttering. I noticed this is because Windows sometimes thinks the game is running on screen 2 but actually the game is visible on screen 3 for example. Very strange.
- Many different store fronts each with their own settings, limitations and bugs
- Resolution scaling, the scaling options in Windows suck and do not register well. Sometimes all my screens 'scale', sometimes none of them.

Steam problems
- Monitor selection, this is just random. Sometimes screen 1 is my TV, other times screen 3, varies for each game too
- Resolution resets, because it has to switch between these screens the resolution settings are all wonky

EGS problems
- Game boots up on the wrong screen even if I select the correct one (the trick here is to drag the EGS window to the screen you want to use)
- Resolution setting resets (again the same bullshit as on Steam)
- Controller detection

How are your experiences and do you guys have any ideas how to make this work smoother or should I just get more games on my Xbox One X instead?
Running back and forth between my PC and TV to tweak settings, sync controllers etc. is dumb bullshit and feels like this type of experience hasn't improved in a decade.
For movies and TV shows we have Plex now, which has ironed out all this stuff for entertainment.

[thisismyusername]

The X-box controller booting up the X-box is a known thing because the blutooth will grab it as a sync over your PC. The only way to stop that is to unplug the X-box or find a different controller/etc. Same shit happens with the PS4.

[Cerveza mas fina]

This is why we have consoles

[bork]

This is why we have consoles

This.  It's not that I've never used a PC on a TV, but generally just stick to monitors.  If you want 4K/HDR and all that for PC gaming, maybe think about getting a new monitor instead?

Although I can't say that I had any problems the last time I ran an HDMI cable from my PC to my TV, apart from it outputting at 30hz, but that was from the cable.  Once I replaced it, no problems with anything.  Come to think of it, that was the only problem I've ever had with PC gaming on a TV.

[Tasty]

Stadia?

[bork]

Stadia?

[Nintex]

Does your TV / receiver combo not support ARC?

Look into it.

Yeah it works over ARC but that port is used by the Xbox One X.
It's a Sony Blu-Ray / receiver combo. It has the ultra rare PCM 5.1 pass-through that is the only type of surround that works for the Switch because it doesn't support Dolby.
Once I get it to work the sound is fine but it's just such a hassle vs. poppin in a disk or clicking an icon on my Xbox.

It also doesn't help that I have 11 sound output devices on this PC.

I've read somewhere that the Xbox One X actually has a HDMI-in. I might give that a try 
Pretty dumb to have the Xbox running when I want to play a PC game on my TV, but if it fixes all the connection hassles. 
Everything else that is currently hooked up (NES/SNES Classic, Switch, Xbox One X) works perfectly so I don't feel like changing the entire set-up unless I'm certain new issues won't pop up.

[Mr Gilhaney]

HDR support in general is a bit fucking shit tbh, doesnt have much to do with your hardware. Not many games properly work with it and windows settings for it is kind of shit as well. One of the things that could be improved a lot on pc atm.

The solution is to buy an ultra wide monitor, and experience games in a much nicer way than on your 4k tv or regular pc monitor. 

[Nintex]

Does your TV / receiver combo not support ARC?

Look into it.

Yeah it works over ARC but that port is used by the Xbox One X.

WUT?

Arc is supposed to make it so you can plug everything into your TV, then have one HDMI cable go back into your receiver, and you get surround sound against all without changing the input on the receiver.

Yeah, I meant the TV to control the receiver and pass both audio and video.
The set-up is basically this.

Receiver -> TV (HDMI TV 1 / HDMI R1 ARC)
Xbox One X -> TV (HDMI 3 - so the HDR signal works)
Switch / Wii U / SNES Classic / NES Classic -> HDMI hub -> Receiver (HDMI R2 / HDMI TV 2)

PC sound -> Receiver (Optical)
PC video -> TV (HDMI 4)

Now that I'm writing it out like this, I think I might be able to lose the optical cable.
I needed it specifically for the DTS codec but now that I think about it all that is handled by Plex / Netflix etc. and no longer an issue. 

As for my Monitor, I'm currently using an ASUS MG279 2K / IPS 144Hz / FreeSync panel as my main screen and a decent IPS Dell as my second screen.
The ASUS I'm still fairly happy with and is about 3 - 4 years old I think. Plus outside of the HDR it's more about being able to play SP games on the couch.

[Tasty]

Stadia has HDR built-in throughout the entire stack (ymmv on web I guess)

[bork]

HDR has largely disappointed me (for gaming).  The 55" I had was praised for how good it was for its price, but PS4 games looked like washed-out shit with HDR enabled.  I did some rearranging and that TV is now in the living room, being used just for watching stuff. 

Got a newer 32" 4K/HDR TV for my game room instead (not as much space now, but the 55" was too big for the room anyway) and while the HDR is better, I'm still not seeing what the big deal is.  But maybe it's just a PS4 thing.

The solution is to buy an ultra wide monitor, and experience games in a much nicer way than on your 4k tv or regular pc monitor. 

 

Ultra-wide is awesome.  My monitor is only 2560x1080, but I'll take that 21:9 aspect ratio (144hz is nice, too!) over a 4K display any day.  Of course having a 4K ultra-wide would be even better, lol.

[Tasty]

Ultra-wide is awesome, the display I used wasn't curved though which made it a bit unusable at the edges IMO. Would love to try a curved screen.

Also I'll stop trolling with Stadia stuff.

[Mr Gilhaney]

Never even seen an ultra wide that wasnt curved. Got the AW3418DW, which isnt the biggest curve (actually rather subtle) but it does help. I got a huge desk last year as well, so next up for me is to get a super ultra wide as well. 

[Nintex]

I totally want that Samsung Odyssey curved screen that looks like it came straight out of a JJ Abrams Star Trek movie

[bork]

Ultra-wide is awesome, the display I used wasn't curved though which made it a bit unusable at the edges IMO. Would love to try a curved screen.

Also I'll stop trolling with Stadia stuff.

Mine is curved too and it's definitely nice.  I think it really helps with larger size monitors.  My previous 21:9 monitor was not curved, but it was also smaller (29" versus 34") and didn't really make a difference at that size.

[bork]

Never even seen an ultra wide that wasnt curved. Got the AW3418DW, which isnt the biggest curve (actually rather subtle) but it does help. I got a huge desk last year as well, so next up for me is to get a super ultra wide as well. 

The smaller sizes aren't curved.  I got my 34" LG also after getting a huge desk.  I wanted to use my 29" ultra-wide and 27" regular ASUS monitors on a dual arm, but while the desk had the space for them both, the arm did not.    Ended up returning them and just got a larger ultra-wide instead.  I use dual screens for work, but it's much nicer to just use one monitor for home stuff and makes playing vidya less of a hassle anyway.  There's a small handful of Japanese games that don't play nice with 21:9 in full-screen, but they're so few and far between that it doesn't really bother me.

[Tasty]

The Evil Within ultrawidescreen

Civ Beyond Earth ultrawidescreen

[bork]

I see that Control has 21:9 support and is on sale right now on the EGS.  But I have it on PS4 already.  BUT DAT ULTRA-WIDE

[MMaRsu]

I really dont know anything about receivers, I just have my 3.5 jack for my stereo set plugged into the tv headphone port. So everything on the TV gets played on the stereo, not the tv.

Then I have HDMI input into my TV from my pc.. and 2 DS4's that I have with a USB cable. Could probably use bluetooth but eh fuck it.

When I want to play on something else, I just switch to a different TV output using my TV remote.

Sounds like the receiver is giving you problems. But why mess with a third screen on PC? I dont get it.

[Cerveza mas fina]

What's the hype with HDR?

Its tacky in photography and I dont see why it would be good in games.

[CatsCatsCats]

Did not read because nintex, anyone say buy a console yet? 

[Nintex]

What's the hype with HDR?

Its tacky in photography and I dont see why it would be good in games.

HDR really is a game changer in certain titles if executed well.
Games like Assassin's Odyssey, Origins, DOA6 look way more lush and alive in HDR. But also the caves in Tomb Raider have much more natural light.
Overall I'm a big fan but sometimes when it is poorly implemented it actually makes the IQ worse.

I see that Control has 21:9 support and is on sale right now on the EGS.  But I have it on PS4 already.  BUT DAT ULTRA-WIDE

If you have an RTX go for it. Ray Tracing in control is amazing. 

Did not read because nintex, anyone say buy a console yet? 

Already have a console. So the dilemma is this, something like Saints Row The Third looks fun, but also looks like a game that's going to be modded to hell and back.
Do I play it comfy on my Xbox or do I get it on PC for the mods. I basically want both.

[bork]

What's the hype with HDR?

Its tacky in photography and I dont see why it would be good in games.

HDR really is a game changer in certain titles if executed well.
Games like Assassin's Odyssey, Origins, DOA6 look way more lush and alive in HDR. But also the caves in Tomb Raider have much more natural light.
Overall I'm a big fan but sometimes when it is poorly implemented it actually makes the IQ worse.

I haven't seen this at all in any of the games I've played.     But again maybe that's just PS4 Pro.  I didn't even know DOA6 had HDR support- it's an XBox-only thing. 

I see that Control has 21:9 support and is on sale right now on the EGS.  But I have it on PS4 already.  BUT DAT ULTRA-WIDE

If you have an RTX go for it. Ray Tracing in control is amazing. 

Nah, I have a 1070.

[Tasty]

What's the hype with HDR?

Its tacky in photography and I dont see why it would be good in games.

Bad/early photography HDR effects kinda ruined the term. It also is more effective in motion/video than still images IMO.

[Cerveza mas fina]

Maybe i have to see it, i just associatie it with oversaturation

[CatsCatsCats]

It’s just not going to comfy to deal with installing mods and shit from the couch. Maybe you set it up so you actually have a desktop somewhere to deal with that crap and then when it’s all dialed it you use and hdmi switcher to the tv or some shit and go sit down but like I really didn’t read this thread and now I feel bad because I bet someone smarter than I already said this but smarter

[thisismyusername]

...So just put your PC near the TV, Cats. Or run a line/Steam Link it.

[Tasty]

Maybe i have to see it, i just associatie it with oversaturation

If I had to describe it, I'd almost go the opposite route. Blacks are "blacker" if that makes sense. Take an HDR image and put it next to non-HDR, and the shadows in the latter end up totally crushed and looking gray in comparison to the HDR version.

It feels like your eyes are getting more "data" to work with, in a way it reminds me of boosting the FPS.

[Tasty]

Good image I found on Google:



Just an approximation but communicates what I was saying.

[bork]

Maybe i have to see it, i just associatie it with oversaturation

If I had to describe it, I'd almost go the opposite route. Blacks are "blacker" if that makes sense. Take an HDR image and put it next to non-HDR, and the shadows in the latter end up totally crushed and looking gray in comparison to the HDR version.

It feels like your eyes are getting more "data" to work with, in a way it reminds me of boosting the FPS.

It's the exact opposite of this for me with PS4.    But I also have a preference for more saturated colors and stuff, too.

[Cerveza mas fina]

I know how it works, I used to work for a known image company :p

When I talk abou bad hdr I mean

[Cerveza mas fina]

 

[Rufus]

Yeah, that's not what's being aimed for now.

TV/moitor HDR is about actually making bright areas brighter and light areas lighter by selectively dimming or brightening the backlighting. It's a great effect, especially in contrast right scenes, but still far from being mainstream, especially on PC.

[bork]

I know how it works, I used to work for a known image company :p

It's not the same for video.

https://www.cnet.com/news/hdr-for-cameras-vs-hdr-for-tvs-whats-the-difference/

[Tasty]

I know how it works, I used to work for a known image company :p

It's not the same for video.

https://www.cnet.com/news/hdr-for-cameras-vs-hdr-for-tvs-whats-the-difference/

This is also what I was getting at; video vs. images feels totally different.

[Rufus]

The problem with marketing for it is that they use image HDR to approximate the effect, which just causes confusion.

This monitor comparison can serve as an explainer:
https://youtu.be/0srgPxK-WhQ?t=204

Display HDR is legit, just not ready yet.

[Nintex]

You have to see HDR for yourself with a good implementation on an OLED or QLED to understand what it can add.
Certain things look so much better with it that on my TV at least I prefer all my content with HDR now.
On my phone I didn't really 'get it' either.

Dolby Vision / HDR Altered Carbon with the black levels of OLED is just 

[bork]

You have to see HDR for yourself with a good implementation on an OLED or QLED to understand what it can add.
Certain things look so much better with it that on my TV at least I prefer all my content with HDR now.
On my phone I didn't really 'get it' either.

Dolby Vision / HDR Altered Carbon with the black levels of OLED is just 

I need something other than a PS4 to try HDR with.  When I did some streaming video tests on both of my 4K HDR TVs, it looked great.   But not gonna buy an XBox for that.  Maybe if I get a new PC with a capable card I'll try hooking it up to a TV again.

[Nintex]

At this point, just wait for Next Gen

[bork]

At this point, just wait for Next Gen

Am sure I'll inevitably end up with a PS5, yeah.

[Tasty]

HDR on OLED

Those blacks

[remy]

your HDR issues sound like HDMI port issues. I have a sony tv also and mine can only handle 4k60fps HDR on two of the ports.  (iirc ports 2 and 3) the stuttering could be caused by this too

[Nintex]

your HDR issues sound like HDMI port issues. I have a sony tv also and mine can only handle 4k60fps HDR on two of the ports.  (iirc ports 2 and 3) the stuttering could be caused by this too

From what I understand both your CPU and GPU have to support it on Windows and the i7 4790k doesn't 

[MMaRsu]

your HDR issues sound like HDMI port issues. I have a sony tv also and mine can only handle 4k60fps HDR on two of the ports.  (iirc ports 2 and 3) the stuttering could be caused by this too

From what I understand both your CPU and GPU have to support it on Windows and the i7 4790k doesn't 

Are you sure about this ? I never heard of that

[Nintex]

your HDR issues sound like HDMI port issues. I have a sony tv also and mine can only handle 4k60fps HDR on two of the ports.  (iirc ports 2 and 3) the stuttering could be caused by this too

From what I understand both your CPU and GPU have to support it on Windows and the i7 4790k doesn't 

Your CPU... has to support... HDR?

lol

Yeah, it's really weird it even says so in the requirements

Windows 10 version 1803 (April 2018 Update) or higher.
Processors like Intel 7th Generation or better to use required codecs for 10-bit video decoding.
Display with a 1920 x 1080 pixels (1080p) resolution or better.
Display with the brightness of 300 nits or better.

There's a sort of debug test you can run with DirectX 12 to see what your system is capable of and while the GPU check gives the green light the CPU check doesn't.
My best guess is that because the older i7's like the i7-4790k have integrated graphics. You can disable it but it stills pops up as part of the device profile in the DirectX debug.

[Nintex]

That's about video codecs;  thought we were talking about games here?

HDR for games is just GPU + display (and have to have Windows 10 updated to a certain point.)

There's a setting in the Windows display settings (Play HDR Games and Apps) you need to enable to get HDR to work and it just automatically flips to off if your system (for whatever reason) doesn't support it.
It's weird, because when I switch it on and it flashes my TV shows the HDR icon that I also get on Netflix (so it works hardware wise and I have an image on the screen) but then it just flips off again after a second.

Here's the settings screen on my system. It actually says "yes" next to play HDR games and apps but when I switch it on it automatically switches off again.


Before smart people ask about the cable, I already tried that at some point.
I switched cables and the Play HDR games and apps spec switched to 'No'. 

[Himu]

Buy a goddamn HDMI cable. Boom, problem solved.

[Nintex]

Buy a goddamn HDMI cable. Boom, problem solved.

I have that, it doesn't solve every issue.

[Sho Nuff]

Tried Steam Link via RPi4, it was total garbo on my home network (wired). Driving me crazy, PC is too far from living room to get a HDMI port. I just wanna play Control but not where i work all day

[Svejk]

Just trying to get DS4Windows to work properly can be a total twat waffle to cooperate... Only to have games still show boner buttons. 

[Coax]

Just trying to get DS4Windows to work properly can be a total twat waffle to cooperate... Only to have games still show boner buttons. 

Yeah non-native DS4 buttons are a gripe of mine in PC games. I mod them where possible. For me DS4Windows has been hassle-free (though haven't updated in years) while using the 'Hide DS4 controller' option. I found early in that never plugging the DS4 into the computer's USB port resolved any Bluetooth disconnection issues, instead I charge it via power-only USB and leave it connected via Bluetooth (IIRC both direct USB and BT share the same latency anyway, at least on the Gen 1 DS4).

[Nintex]

Can't you enable HDR through Nvidia/whoever?

I think the Windows thing needs CPU power so you can run codecs through their shitty media player that makes you actually pay for certain codecs.

Since the creators update HDR runs through DirectX 12/Windows so it won't do anything if you enable it in an application if the Windows setting is 'off'.
A lot of people make the mistake of changing their game settings to HDR without the Windows setting, which at best just makes everything darker 

[thisismyusername]

Just trying to get DS4Windows to work properly can be a total twat waffle to cooperate... Only to have games still show boner buttons. 

...You don't need DS4Windows unless using UWP apps. Just make the game a non-Steam shortcut, have Steam installed and the controller will register to your Steam account. You can then remap EVERYTHING to your liking if you don't want to use the default "control camera with right stick" layout.

[Nintex]

Just trying to get DS4Windows to work properly can be a total twat waffle to cooperate... Only to have games still show boner buttons. 

...You don't need DS4Windows unless using UWP apps. Just make the game a non-Steam shortcut, have Steam installed and the controller will register to your Steam account. You can then remap EVERYTHING to your liking if you don't want to use the default "control camera with right stick" layout.

Yeah button lay-outs are dumb too and in some janky ports completely broken.
For example, you can remap your buttons to a controller but in some games QTE's still show the regular keyboard buttons instead.

How am I supposed to know that the spacebar is the A button if I've never played the console version? 

[Svejk]

Just trying to get DS4Windows to work properly can be a total twat waffle to cooperate... Only to have games still show boner buttons. 

...You don't need DS4Windows unless using UWP apps. Just make the game a non-Steam shortcut, have Steam installed and the controller will register to your Steam account. You can then remap EVERYTHING to your liking if you don't want to use the default "control camera with right stick" layout.

I need to do some digging then to make/change them a non-Steam shortcut... everything I google is how to make them into a Steam shortcut.  Lately I've been playing Dragon's Dogma (with mods), and it's always a task to just get the controller working with it AND make the mod activate to change the buttons to the PSX ones... sometimes they show, sometimes they don't.   

[bork]

Just trying to get DS4Windows to work properly can be a total twat waffle to cooperate... Only to have games still show boner buttons. 

...You don't need DS4Windows unless using UWP apps. Just make the game a non-Steam shortcut, have Steam installed and the controller will register to your Steam account. You can then remap EVERYTHING to your liking if you don't want to use the default "control camera with right stick" layout.

I need to do some digging then to make/change them a non-Steam shortcut... everything I google is how to make them into a Steam shortcut.  Lately I've been playing Dragon's Dogma (with mods), and it's always a task to just get the controller working with it AND make the mod activate to change the buttons to the PSX ones... sometimes they show, sometimes they don't.   

Get an XBox or X-input controller.

[thisismyusername]

Just trying to get DS4Windows to work properly can be a total twat waffle to cooperate... Only to have games still show boner buttons. 

...You don't need DS4Windows unless using UWP apps. Just make the game a non-Steam shortcut, have Steam installed and the controller will register to your Steam account. You can then remap EVERYTHING to your liking if you don't want to use the default "control camera with right stick" layout.

I need to do some digging then to make/change them a non-Steam shortcut... everything I google is how to make them into a Steam shortcut.  Lately I've been playing Dragon's Dogma (with mods), and it's always a task to just get the controller working with it AND make the mod activate to change the buttons to the PSX ones... sometimes they show, sometimes they don't.   

That's what "making them into a Non-Steam shortcut" means, my dude.



Works with any client/launcher outside of MS store/UWP. It's really a shame Valve didn't open-source their controller API as they support a shit ton of controllers.

As for Dual-Shock buttons: Well, that's a case-by-case thing. Some publishers like Ubisoft support it if it detects a DS4. But personally: I've just gotten used to seeing the 360 controller buttons and knowing what ABXY is.

[remy]

Can't you enable HDR through Nvidia/whoever?

I think the Windows thing needs CPU power so you can run codecs through their shitty media player that makes you actually pay for certain codecs.

Since the creators update HDR runs through DirectX 12/Windows so it won't do anything if you enable it in an application if the Windows setting is 'off'.
A lot of people make the mistake of changing their game settings to HDR without the Windows setting, which at best just makes everything darker 

I understand operating systems are extremely complex software, but I don't understand why HDR in windows is just a shitshow

[Thirty-Ought-Six]

It is probably the tv settings. Many tvs have a pc mode, which may apply automatically and may be hidden, which uses 4:4:4 RGB. This is a mode with no compression, which is needed to properly display text when using the tv as a monitor.

There is not enough bandwidth in HDMI 2.0 to support this mode at full settings with HDR. You could try changing the setting so it isn't a pc input. On my tv I would have to somehow trick it into using a different mode, since it automatically detects a pc and can't be changed manually.