The Culture War Thread

[Himu]

Discussions on the culture war that is being forced upon us with multiple agendas from the left, politically and culturally.

[BIONIC]

[Great Rumbler]

People on both sides of the political spectrum thinking Star Wars and Marvel movies are "important."

[Potato]

You can't have a war without both sides participating in it himu.

Anyone who thinks the right hasn't been fighting a culture war is deranged.

The left cancels people for not using the correct alphabet people pronouns and the right cancels people for not adhering to dubious sky fairy doctrine.

It's all the same bullshit and you need to stop falling for this dumb shit.

[Himu]

You can't have a war without both sides participating in it himu.

Anyone who thinks the right hasn't been fighting a culture war is deranged.

The left cancels people for not using the correct alphabet people pronouns and the right cancels people for not adhering to dubious sky fairy doctrine.

It's all the same bullshit and you need to stop falling for this dumb shit.

This thread isn't about cancel culture at all and I'm interested in both "sides". Honestly though, the left is definitely winning and dominates culture via corporate support.

[BisMarckie]

Culture war

Culture Club

[Uncle]

dp

[Uncle]

People on both sides of the political spectrum thinking Star Wars and Marvel movies are "important."

well, here's the thing though, everyone seems to agree the average person is dumb, like really insanely dumb

people are afraid of foreigners with their weird mexican language taking their jobs so when you promise to wall them off, they say "well hot damn that feller's smart, he's my president"

corona is scary for old people who see their fellow olds dying so they vote out the trump who promised them it would just disappear and they vote in the biden, believing when he says he will stop the corona, and then when he doesn't stop the corona they do a frowny face and give him a 44% approval rating

people are really stupid

and they all watch every disney movie and play every call of duty

and through the explosions and popcorn they soak up whatever message is conveyed by the media, and they use that to inform their worldview, because they don't have any actually meaningful conversations or read thought-provoking articles

they say things like "killmonger was right haha" and "this is the way" and "sorry to hear that bro, btw you should read berserk"

this is not a soapbox to proclaim that media is doing a particularly good or bad job with its messaging, or that it's on the right or wrong political side, just that I think it's contradictory to believe the average person is pretty dumb, but that the average person is smart enough not to be influenced by the media they consume




Ghostbusters 2016 isn't an important film because "omg finally we get a movie with four funny and strong women who pass the bechdel test and were able to make men everywhere cry male tears because they courageously conquered a male-dominated franchise"

Ghostbosters 2016 is an important film because it informs us that, frighteningly, people actually believe things like the above and make it a part of their identity

[Uncle]

You can't have a war without both sides participating in it himu.

Anyone who thinks the right hasn't been fighting a culture war is deranged.

The left cancels people for not using the correct alphabet people pronouns and the right cancels people for not adhering to dubious sky fairy doctrine.

It's all the same bullshit and you need to stop falling for this dumb shit.

This thread isn't about cancel culture at all and I'm interested in both "sides". Honestly though, the left is definitely winning and dominates culture via corporate support.

what else is a corporation supposed to do, though? they exist to pander to their audience, and they want the audience as broad as possible

• millions of dollars are at stake in any major corporate effort, both the spending and the earning
• population at an all time high, which means art/media at an all time high, so competition for attention is fierce
• media needs to appeal to as broad an audience as possible with as broad a message as possible
• one political party positions itself as wanting to see, essentially, an ethnicity/sexual rainbow in your product, and the other party wants nothing but hetero whites
• focus test: do we make more money if we target everyone, or only hetero whites?
• oh
• oh that's a lot of money
• look I know a lot of conservatives are rich but they still only purchase our product once, just like the poor brown people
• yeah I guess we're making that broad rainbow media that is only "left" because the right insists it must be
• if you listen to the message though we're still encouraging you to embrace your role in society as a consumer so we still got that going for us

[benjipwns]

Discussions on the culture war that is being forced upon us with multiple agendas from the left, politically and culturally.

-"The culture war is here" in title
-Icon of guy in hat with a beard with fire behind him
-Multiple images with every single one being a massive corporate media film/TV franchise

[Uncle]

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/SohrabAhmari/status/1477285719907487748

[Uncle]

https://twitter.com/Ales_Coffee/status/1471885439594160133

[Don Rumata]

Discussions on the culture war that is being forced upon us with multiple agendas from the left, politically and culturally.

The "us vs them" framing he uses is part of the issue.
Promoting more group think is the problem.

It doesn't matter if it's the "conservative right" or the "authorative left" on top, the big group fucking with the smaller group is a constant of nature, and it can be contrasted only by limiting as much as possible the need to appeal and belong to a clique or a group.

Rational, critical thinking is really the only sensible out.

It's not a coincidence that so many of the rhetorical tactics employed by the mob are geared towards anti-intellectualism.
Whether it's the left wing "woke" crowd silencing professors, or the rightwing nutjobs silencing scientists.

It's still just demagogy, just applied to internet and social media, which grants unprecedented levels of capillarity and invasiveness.

Now the left has the cultural dominance, 60 years ago it was the right.
As long as you keep framing it as left vs right, it's just going around the carousel, over and over.

Reason why i personally don't like the bi-partisan system you have in the US.

[Uncle]

Now the left has the cultural dominance, 60 years ago it was the right.
As long as you keep framing it as left vs right, it's just going around the carousel, over and over.

Reason why i personally don't like the bi-partisan system you have in the US.

what countries have stopped the carousel, specifically in the modern culture war context?

like if the US's partisan nature is the problem, what country would you point to as one that wasn't divided along partisan lines, where everyone came together and said, you're right, we need to be accepting and embracing of minorities but we also can't let this carry us away, we can reject this hyper-focus on the problematic and just enjoy ourselves again

which country did that?

[VomKriege]

Enjoy the movies you want 
There's hundred of thousands films that have been made and thousands more each year, which either are more genuine or prolly more interested in other things.

[Tasty]

https://twitter.com/SohrabAhmari/status/1477285719907487748

Regarding the People's Republic of China, you do not, under any circumstances, "gotta hand it to them."

[Tasty]

Enjoy the movies you want 
There's hundred of thousands film that have been made and thousands more each year, which either are more genuine or prolly more interested in other things.

Basically this.

Culture wars

Culture

[bork]

Enjoy the movies you want 
There's hundred of thousands film that have been made and thousands more each year, which either are more genuine or prolly more interested in other things.

Basically this.

Culture wars

Culture

PROTOCULTURE
 

[Tasty]

Subcultures

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Food Cultures

[BIONIC]

Whoreticulture 

[Don Rumata]

Now the left has the cultural dominance, 60 years ago it was the right.
As long as you keep framing it as left vs right, it's just going around the carousel, over and over.

Reason why i personally don't like the bi-partisan system you have in the US.

what countries have stopped the carousel, specifically in the modern culture war context?

like if the US's partisan nature is the problem, what country would you point to as one that wasn't divided along partisan lines, where everyone came together and said, you're right, we need to be accepting and embracing of minorities but we also can't let this carry us away, we can reject this hyper-focus on the problematic and just enjoy ourselves again

which country did that?

I didn't say the bi-partisan system is THE problem, but i think it's part of the problem.
I think a proportional system with multiple parties can be a better representation of the diversity of ideas within a community/population, and thus a more democratic approach.
Anything that dispels the tribalistic nature of us v them, and promotes the ideas of critical thinking, and considering ideas for what they are, instead of where they come from.
I know that most countries, even those with multiple parties, tend to boil down to right v left anyway, but it's still worth trying to fight back against this simplification of political ideas.

It makes no sense to have to subscribe to an entire political platform, just because i support some of its ideas.

Though i know that would seem to imply direct democracy, i don't know how realistic that is, in larger realities (like the US).

[Himu]

Discussions on the culture war that is being forced upon us with multiple agendas from the left, politically and culturally.

-"The culture war is here" in title
-Icon of guy in hat with a beard with fire behind him
-Multiple images with every single one being a massive corporate media film/TV franchise

I just find the whole situation fascinating from a sociological lens.

Conservatives say the left wing owns culture because of corporate assimilation and lifting up left viewpoints. But the actual left thinks corporations use their causes for only acquiring capitol rather than being earnest believers. See the way companies treat Pride. For a month it's nothing but rainbow but as soon as it's July 1st the lgbt are forgotten by these corporations as if they used an entire group of people for a paycheck. But while all this is going on the right, because they see how culturally dominant the left is getting they view it unilaterally as a threat as companies worth billions back the left. This results in lots negative feelings and without a manner to discuss what the right think outside of conservative media which makes the right further dig their heels and in some cases radicslize because few things are being made for them.

Like I said, it's fascinating.

[Himu]

[Great Rumbler]

Culture war

Culture Club

[Great Rumbler]

Now the left has the cultural dominance, 60 years ago it was the right.

I mean, it's been quite a bit less than 60 years from the time when big movies were "Rah-rah-rah U-S-A! U-S-A! Go capitalism! Boo socialism!!" and "Liberal politicians and prosecutors can't be trusted to protect us from crime, we need hardnosed cops who aren't afraid to blast criminals in the face."

[Himu]

Good point Rumbler. But things like Commando are like 40 years ago and that was kind of the height. It feels like that kind of movie died with 9/11.

As I consider these topics I realize it's not about left or right as both make great points. I really like the dialogue happening.

[Don Rumata]

I don't see much "dialogue" happening.
I see a lot of cretins shouting, trying to silence the opposing team, and in the process scaring away normal people from public, political discourse.

[Himu]

I don't see much "dialogue" happening.
I see a lot of cretins shouting, trying to silence the opposing team, and in the process scaring away normal people from public, political discourse.

I'm talking about this thread

[Himu]

Even Canadians are starting to get woke

https://tarahenley.substack.com/p/speaking-freely?r=9dpfg

The left controls culture and perspectives. Will they be willing to admit it and will we be able to curate a society that allows multiple perspectives?

Reading this reveals why conservatives label it "cultural Marxism". I get their point and I'm sympathetic to it.  It paints a perfect critique against leftist thought and thinking and also reveals the methodologies that curated the CCCP and Mao's revolution.

[Great Rumbler]

Good point Rumbler. But things like Commando are like 40 years ago and that was kind of the height. It feels like that kind of movie died with 9/11.

Nah, it just morphed into "Jack Bauer torturing people is fine because it's okay to torture bad people."

[Himu]

Good point Rumbler. But things like Commando are like 40 years ago and that was kind of the height. It feels like that kind of movie died with 9/11.

Nah, it just morphed into "Jack Bauer torturing people is fine because it's okay to torture bad people."

Ohh right. Good point.

[tiesto]

Some random, anecdotal thoughts:

I once heard that in the US, the Dems and Republicans have influence in differing sectors:
Republicans - manpower-heavy sectors like the military/Pentagon, agriculture, extraction/energy
Dems - informational sectors like the media, finance, tech, education

Right now, the tech and finance sectors are probably the most thriving sectors in America, and because of their very nature (informational), they're able to rapidly push their values. Considering these industries are situated in highly diverse, wealthy, coastal urban areas, what gets pushed seems foreign and imposing to small town middle american conservatives, triggering more backlash.

I wish I could find the article, but I had a good one that shows 'wokeness' is a cultural elite symbolizer. In fact a lot of people will use the 'language' of wokeness but not actually buy into it. Being "offended" seems like a type of virtue signaling more than anything else, the polar reversal of late 90's, early 00's "extreme" culture ("you can't offend me! even with your goatse and edgelord racist jokes").

The culture war that's mostly been apparent to me lately is the working class vs. professional class divide. When I look at my friends and people I associate with on a regular basis, almost all have at least a 4 year degree and work in Dem-focused sectors. Working class people (usually those in the trades, who around here make some very good money and also are strong Trump supporters) I talk to tend to have a lot of suspicion of the professional class and live in their own media/social/interest bubble (and yes, there's a whole cottage industry for conservative grievance - look at the people turning a mediocre chicken sandwich into the paragon of high-class dining). It's like, in my personal experience the people I'm friends/acquaintances with is certainly diverse (in terms of the big corpo HR definition), got people who are lbgtq, varied racial/ethnic backgrounds from West African to Sephardic to Peruvian Chinese to Indian and Japanese expats, but barely any salt-of-the-earth working class types. I just can't seem to relate to them on political, cultural, hobby, levels.

[Himu]

Rumbler would you say it's good that one "side" dominates the culture? Isn't one perspective being thrust upon all of society problematic no matter what type? If Jack Bauer's terrorism shenanigans acted as propaganda can it be argued that the left fueled media of today is also potentially propaganda?


@Tiesto: Good observation on the differences in sector and the prevalence of tech and finance as today's largest cultural touchstones. It's an argument worth considering. I really like it.

I'm working class, Tiesto. Although I was raised middle class and graduated college. I'm not doing salt of the Earth but I am involved in trade school. One of the key differences between the working class and professional class I notice is that working class believes if you work hard enough you will achieve it. There's still a sliver of the old American dream and they conduct themselves knowingly with it mindset. The professional class tends to be more myopic and cynical towards hard work being recognized. This colors the mindsets of the two groups in my experience. If the person went to college they're more than likely to wallow in their own self pity even if they are working class.

Being offended really does feel like the modern reverse of extreme culture and you're right it is mostly virtue signaling and a signifier of elitism. Do people in your circle realize this?

It isn't just elites that buy into wokeness though. A lot of artists I know go for it too and implement it into their work. Whether they buy into it truly or are just using it to make a buck is to be seen. Although I am currently working class, because of my middle class background I'm well aware of wokeness.

[Uncle]

I don't want to put words into Rumbler's mouth but the common line is that it's only bad for one side to dominate if you begin with the assumption that both sides are equally valid, or even with the assumption that both sides have something to offer

current prevailing opinion is that one side has nothing at all worth offering, that there is no baby to throw out with the bathwater

like asking, "should we have pizza for dinner, or rusty nails?" no one is going to say "well just for the sake of not having pizza dominate the conversation we will add 1 rusty nail to it, because both sides have good ideas"

so I think if you want to get into the discussion of whether it's valid to endorse a mix of viewpoints you'd have to start by demonstrating/convincing others that there are worthwhile viewpoints on both sides




for the sake of not dominating all media, what's an example of a viewpoint that you would like to see?

like, "there should be a fully funded netflix show that isn't afraid to have only white characters, and also leave out all LGBT, just tell your story without getting into any sexualities"

[Cauliflower Of Love]

Let's just be clear about what rumbler is saying

[BIONIC]

Let's just be clear about what’s in rumbler’s mouth 

[Uncle]

sorry I know the question wasn't directed at me

[tiesto]

Rumbler would you say it's good that one "side" dominates the culture? Isn't one perspective being thrust upon all of society problematic no matter what type? If Jack Bauer's terrorism shenanigans acted as propaganda can it be argued that the left fueled media of today is also potentially propaganda?


@Tiesto: Good observation on the differences in sector and the prevalence of tech and finance as today's largest cultural touchstones. It's an argument worth considering. I really like it.

I'm working class, Tiesto. Although I was raised middle class and graduated college. I'm not doing salt of the Earth but I am involved in trade school. One of the key differences between the working class and professional class I notice is that working class believes if you work hard enough you will achieve it. There's still a sliver of the old American dream and they conduct themselves knowingly with it mindset. The professional class tends to be more myopic and cynical towards hard work being recognized. This colors the mindsets of the two groups in my experience. If the person went to college they're more than likely to wallow in their own self pity even if they are working class.

Being offended really does feel like the modern reverse of extreme culture and you're right it is mostly virtue signaling and a signifier of elitism. Do people in your circle realize this?

It isn't just elites that buy into wokeness though. A lot of artists I know go for it too and implement it into their work. Whether they buy into it truly or are just using it to make a buck is to be seen. Although I am currently working class, because of my middle class background I'm well aware of wokeness.

That's another great observation of the mindset towards work between say, blue and white collar workers. Speaking from personal experience, it's definitely frustrating when you break your ass, putting in extra off-the-clock time (no OT because you're salaried), and then get passed over for a promotion due to office politics. Certain people may be very talented and hardworking, but they're just not good at (or not interested in) playing "the game", bad at speaking up about their accomplishments, etc. - also I've been in situations where I was let go due to a merger, forced into relocation because the newly-elected division president had a vendetta against my particular office. I've had reviews with managers where they were like "you don't seem to put in as much time as your other team members. Yes, that's great you're working 50+ hours, but Brian is working 60-70 hours a week". I know a lot of other people who are underemployed based on their credentials. So that definitely creates a lot of jaded college-educated and white-collar people out there, myself included.

Working class, or SBOs, definitely seem to have a more straightforward progression in their fields and tend to have OT when they work over their allotted time.

[benjipwns]

Rumbler would you say it's good that one "side" dominates the culture? Isn't one perspective being thrust upon all of society problematic no matter what type? If Jack Bauer's terrorism shenanigans acted as propaganda can it be argued that the left fueled media of today is also potentially propaganda?

Is there any evidence that one side dominates the culture and is "thrusting upon all of society" propaganda?

Look at the case of Succession and Yellowstone. One got all the elite media attention, awards, etc. The other gets five times the number of viewers and has been around longer only recently being noticed by the elite media for being apparently quite similar to Succession.

[Himu]

Rumbler would you say it's good that one "side" dominates the culture? Isn't one perspective being thrust upon all of society problematic no matter what type? If Jack Bauer's terrorism shenanigans acted as propaganda can it be argued that the left fueled media of today is also potentially propaganda?

Is there any evidence that one side dominates the culture and is "thrusting upon all of society" propaganda?

Look at the case of Succession and Yellowstone. One got all the elite media attention, awards, etc. The other gets five times the number of viewers and has been around longer only recently being noticed by the elite media for being apparently quite similar to Succession.

Hmm, I can't point to evidence but...it feels like the left is pushing stuff in media? Maybe they're just more loud?

Let's take It Part 2. There was a bunch of gay stuff inserted that felt kind of forced. From the opening with the gay couple being beaten up for being gay to making Richie gay for Eddie. I mean there's nothing wrong with it, as gay people exist, but the way it's written feels forced and...extra? It feels like this happens in a lot of media now where they're making everyone gay or bi. This is an off hand example.

[Great Rumbler]

Let's just be clear about what’s in rumbler’s mouth 

Lots of saliva, currently.

Only my own, unfortunately.

[Great Rumbler]

Let's take It Part 2. There was a bunch of gay stuff inserted that felt kind of forced. From the opening with the gay couple being beaten up for being gay to making Richie gay for Eddie. I mean there's nothing wrong with it, as gay people exist, but the way it's written feels forced and...extra? It feels like this happens in a lot of media now where they're making everyone gay or bi. This is an off hand example.

The first one of those two is straight from the book, though.

[Himu]

Ah, I haven't gotten to It book yet.

[Lonewulfeus]

Let's take It Part 2. There was a bunch of gay stuff inserted that felt kind of forced. From the opening with the gay couple being beaten up for being gay to making Richie gay for Eddie. I mean there's nothing wrong with it, as gay people exist, but the way it's written feels forced and...extra? It feels like this happens in a lot of media now where they're making everyone gay or bi. This is an off hand example.

The first one of those two is straight from the book, though.

And King based it on a real life murder of a gay man in Bangor like 2 years before he wrote the book.

[Himu]

Let's take It Part 2. There was a bunch of gay stuff inserted that felt kind of forced. From the opening with the gay couple being beaten up for being gay to making Richie gay for Eddie. I mean there's nothing wrong with it, as gay people exist, but the way it's written feels forced and...extra? It feels like this happens in a lot of media now where they're making everyone gay or bi. This is an off hand example.

The first one of those two is straight from the book, though.

And King based it on a real life murder of a gay man in Bangor like 2 years before he wrote the book.

Doesn't change they're making everyone gay or bi or something or continually play with race swapping like making Superman black. Hollywood was rightfully criticized for its lack of diversity and they responded in the most daft, hollow way imaginable - by expanding diversity by making the race/gender the focus of the story rather than the story itself.

Which is how you get situations like Star Trek Discovery.

[Uncle]

Let's take It Part 2. There was a bunch of gay stuff inserted that felt kind of forced. From the opening with the gay couple being beaten up for being gay to making Richie gay for Eddie. I mean there's nothing wrong with it, as gay people exist, but the way it's written feels forced and...extra? It feels like this happens in a lot of media now where they're making everyone gay or bi. This is an off hand example.

The first one of those two is straight from the book, though.

gay from the book tbh

[Himu]

Papa Peterson was on Rogan. 4 hours apparently. Haven't watched yet beyond a few clips.

[Nintex]

 

[james]

I haven't watched the videos but imo the joker was a good metaphor for how liberals are irl.

I fell asleep watching it

[benjipwns]

https://twitter.com/BravoTV/status/1486031228818104325

[Potato]

https://twitter.com/BravoTV/status/1486031228818104325

Translation: We intentionally cast maladjusted mental health patients in our shitty "reality" show, but we didn't think anyone would be as mentally mental as this fucking idiot. We'll try to do better and only cast the mentally unwell who DON'T post shit on social media that will get our show cancelled by the mob.

[Himu]

Apparently this JRE and JP podcast is awful/weird and JP has changed a lot since his coma and likely has legit brain damage. Please pray for this man. I'll give a listen later for my own thoughts.

[Himu]

at multiple posts in a row of himu ranting about something and then following it with "actually I haven't seen/read/listened to it"

I don't think that actually occurred.

[Pissy F Benny]

Daily reminder that the winning move in the culture warz is simply not to play.

[HardcoreRetro]

Apparently this JRE and JP podcast is awful/weird and JP has changed a lot since his coma and likely has legit brain damage.

The guy wasn't exactly right in the head before the coma. The last time he was on Joe Rogan he claimed drinking some apple cider kept him awake for 25 days and made him go insane.

[team filler]

Daily reminder that the winning move in the culture warz is simply not to play.

much better to play both sides 

[Nintex]

[Tasty]

Fuck Spotify and fuck podcast exclusivity.