Why all the RotJ hate?

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I'd argue that two out of three prequels are better than RotJ. RotJ is 22 minutes of great movie stuck in an Ewok-coated candy shell.

REMEMBER THE SCENE WHERE C3PO IS MADE THE PAGAN GOD OF THE EWOKS GOD SHIT FUCK

[TVC15]

So, the directing, cinematography, acting, editing, music and even visual effects are all inferior to ROTJ, but ANH is somehow a superior film?

In your version of Film 101, is screenwriting the only thing that's not superficial?  I think there would be a lot of film grads that would argue against that.  Maybe all.

First of all, the music (and sound in general) is fine in Star Wars, and as far as cinematography goes, there are some nice shots in the first movie.  I'm not going to say what exactly happened, and it certainly wasn't great writing (though it has its moments), but ANH somehow ended up being a lot more than the sum of its parts.  Consider it the little engine that could. 

Fact is, if you asked anyone on earth for a plan to recreate the feeling of the first Star Wars movie, you'd get no good answer.

EDIT:  In all honesty Willco, trying to call any of the first 3 Star Wars soundtracks as anything but great is a fool's errand.  If there's one item of quality that is unimpeachable in all 3 films, it is the score.

[Cheebs]

Sorry mister big time writer.

I will accept your apology.  Now excuse me, I must show the latest copy of my script, BAD TASTE: The Trials and Tribulations of The World's Worst Film School Student, to a Clooney and Soderbergh.  We might get you a cameo, but we're not sure yet.

The score is MUCH better in ANH, Willco.

No way.  The new Emperor themes, combined with the new music composed for the final showdown is more impressive than ANH.  They're both bested by the ESB soundtrack, though.

"THE" star wars theme, the princess leia theme, the force theme, the ending ceremony theme are all greater than the emperor and final duel themes.


Though this is Williams talk rather than Lucas. Lucas is hands off with the music and lets John Williams(and Ben Burtt's editing) go at it alone for all 6.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I will accept your apology.  Now excuse me, I must show the latest copy of my script, BAD TASTE: The Trials and Tribulations of The World's Worst Film School Student, to a Clooney and Soderbergh.  We might get you a cameo, but we're not sure yet.

You know what? Fuck you. At least I do shit. I dont sit on my ass waiting for some hollywood producer to read my script while he takes a dump (and then uses your script as toilet paper). I make films every semester and I am loving every minute of it. Are they masterpieces? No, but I'm still fucking learning. So so shut the fuck up and keep on telling yourself that people actually care about your POS script.


What do you have to show for your work? Ohhh a Letter of intent. Gues what, that doesnt mean shit and they are handed out like candy.

[The Fake Shemp]

"THE" star wars theme, the princess leia theme, the force theme, the ending ceremony theme are all greater than the emperor and final duel themes.

Out of those you mentioned, I'm a fan of maybe two of those.  The music is not really a factor for most of the movie, but Williams captures key moments with some great cues.

I think ROTJ through and through is driven by a superior, more well-rounded score.  The Emperor and duel music always struck me as incredibly impressive.

I felt ESB had the most range and I like it the best for that.

You know what? Fuck you. At least I do shit. I dont sit on my ass waiting for some hollywood producer to read my script while on the toilet. I make films every semester and I am loving every minute of it. Are they masterpieces? No, but I'm still fucking learning. So so shut the fuck up and keep on telling yourself that people actually care about your POS script.

I don't tell myself that anybody cares.  I wouldn't keep writing if I did.  So, I'm not quite sure what you've exposed here, sir!  Probably an elaborate conspiracy to keep your filmmaking spirits down.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

man trying to argue against ANH's score just makes you look like an r-tard, Willco

no fucking way you can argue ROTJ's score is better than ANH, no fucking way. no fucking way!

[Cheebs]

One thing about TPM that is under-rated is the score. It is probably John William's best he did in at least 10 years as of 1999. And I don't just mean Duel of Fates.

[The Fake Shemp]

One thing about TPM that is under-rated is the score. It is probably John William's best he did in at least 10 years as of 1999. And I don't just mean Duel of Fates.

I agree.

no fucking way you can argue ROTJ's score is better than ANH, no fucking way. no fucking way!

I just did.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

One thing about TPM that is under-rated is the score. It is probably John William's best he did in at least 10 years as of 1999. And I don't just mean Duel of Fates.

Schindler's List was pretty good, I thought. And the main title theme from Jurassic Park is great (even if the overall score sucked). But yeah, Williams was sort of phoning it it.

THE MOTHERFUCKING FORCE THEME WILLCO JESUS

[TVC15]

Trying to pick a best Star Wars score is like splitting fucking hairs.  There's no point.  They're all 5-star scores.

[The Fake Shemp]

Listen, I'm not going to argue against the originality of someone of the most cherished cues from A New Hope.  That's true.  But the film isn't driven by its score, as much as the score captures key moments.

Return of the Jedi is a score driven movie, and I think it's more well-rounded and fleshed out than A New Hope.  He takes what works, tweaks it and adds some great new themes to the finale.

[Cheebs]

Trying to pick a best Star Wars score is like splitting fucking hairs.  There's no point.  They're all 5-star scores.

They all are, though AOTC is the weakest I think. The love theme in that is the only one that stood out. Still all 6 are 5 star-scores, I agree.

[TVC15]

That's great Willco. it's a shame about, you know, the whole Return of the Jedi sucking ass thing.

They all are, though AOTC is the weakest I think. The love theme in that is the only one that stood out. Still all 6 are 5 star-scores, I agree.

I wasn't counting the new movies since I have only seen them maybe 1-2 times, but it's nice to know that they stand out, too.  Duel of the Fates was awesome, at least.  I remember that.

[The Fake Shemp]

That's great Willco. it's a shame about, you know, the whole Return of the Jedi sucking ass thing.

Ewoks are noble creatures.

ROTS is the worst score, in my opinion.  It's all recycled garbage.  I don't like the new theme from AOTC, but at least Williams attempted something new.

[TVC15]

That's great Willco. it's a shame about, you know, the whole Return of the Jedi sucking ass thing.

Ewoks are noble creatures.

ROTS is the worst score, in my opinion.  It's all recycled garbage.  I don't like the new theme from AOTC, but at least Williams attempted something new.

Ewoks are the FUCKING devil, Willco. The feelings ewoks awaken in me are even worse than the feeling you get when you find out you accidentally impregnated someone.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

In all seriousness...what is GOOD about Return of the Jedi outside of:

- The opening Sarlaac pit sequence
- The final Vader/Emperor duel
- A handful of new musical cues (the bulk of the score is recycled from the first two movies)

This is counterbalanced by SO MUCH BAD I can't list it all.

- Luke/Leia sibling bullshit
- Han pussying out
- Han coming back instead of dying
- Everything on Endor
- ANOTHER DEATH STAR
- etc. etc. etc. etc.

I seriously don't get how anyone can defend the movie...it's so atrocious in every way.

[TVC15]

http://www.electric-escape.net/node/449

[Cheebs]

ROTS is the worst score, in my opinion.

The scene in which Padme and Anakin are both looking out separate windows with no sound outside of Williams' score is one of the best moments in Williams career. GREAT music.

The theme to the Obi-Wan and Anakin duel was also fantastic.

[The Fake Shemp]

The Obi-Wan/Anakin stuff is mediocre and recycled cues from ESB.

[Cheebs]

The Obi-Wan/Anakin stuff is mediocre and recycled cues from ESB.

HUSH, thats why I liked it. It reminded me of ESB.

[TVC15]

From that list, I think point 2 is another thing that we haven't discussed in regards to RotJ sucking:  The tone is inconsistent.

The ending of ESB sets up the third movie to be pretty dark, and indeed, it starts out that way. . .until the FUCKING EWOKS show up.  It's so jarring.  Everything else in the movie is relatively dark, except for the physical comedy ass-kicking teddy bears.  I understand not wanting to make a movie TOO dark, but the ewoks don't balance the "darkness," they are downright saccharine and feel completely out of place.

[The Fake Shemp]

That's why it's so bad.  All it does is remind when Star Wars used to be good.

[Bloodwake]

That's why it's so bad.  All it does is remind when Star Wars used to be good.

God damn, you are contradictory.

Haven't you argued for like two fucking pages that the entire series was shit?

Hell, ROTJ was decent, to the point I would rank ROTS over it. I see the hatred and understand it, but considering, it was still a good film.

[Cheebs]

I am conflicted about ROTS. I enjoyed more on DVD than I did in theaters. I would feel wrong calling it better than ROTJ though. The star wars prequels still give me a bad aftertaste if you will.

But in 10 years I won't be suprised if I and many others look more fondly on the prequels than we do today.

[Phoenix Dark]

I am conflicted about ROTS. I enjoyed more on DVD than I did in theaters. I would feel wrong calling it better than ROTJ though. The star wars prequels still give me a bad aftertaste if you will.

But in 10 years I won't be suprised if I and many others look more fondly on the prequels than we do today.

None of the prequels come close to the originals. ROTS is the best of the prequels imo, and I actually enjoyed it more at the theater than on DVD. But seeing ROTS at midnight on opening day with literally hundreds of people is easily my favorite experience ever at the movies. Even though the movie is not that great, I'll never forget that night.

We need a thread about classic theater experiences

[Cheebs]

ON THAT RIGHT NOW