Author Topic: Why did the Matrix sequels suck so bad? Was it that hard to make them good? (Read 4341 times)

FlameOfCallandor · « **on:** April 08, 2007, 11:37:44 PM »

Seriously there was so much mythology created by the first one and they just threw it away. Fuck even the animtraix was pretty good.

Ichirou · « **Reply #1 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:40:04 PM »

The thing is, the Wachowskis exhausted the concept in the first film. Once they'd finished with the big reveal about the reality of The Matrix, they couldn't come up with any mysteries or plot twists as equally compelling or believable for any of the sequels. That's what I think anyway.

Himu · « **Reply #2 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:41:39 PM »

They sucked because one of the brother's got sexually confused and got a sex change

Ichirou · « **Reply #3 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:43:29 PM »

They should have ended the second film with Keanu Reeves realizing he was still in The Matrix, then waking up a SECOND time and finding out that he's really a woman. That would've ruled.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #4 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:44:16 PM »

they're better than any star wars prequel

hell, the third one is better than any star wars MOVIE

Stocky · « **Reply #5 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:47:18 PM »

The Matrix sequels sucked because they began to make the outside of the Matrix more important.

It might've worked more if they put more emphasis on it in the first movie, but the whole idea of the first movie was THE MATRIX. Not ZION.

Focusing on the battle between Neo and the machines inside the program would've been a better way to go with it, along with keeping Agent Smith fucking dead. Bringing him back was probably the biggest mistake they made.

Himu · « **Reply #6 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:49:04 PM »

Quote from: Drinky Crow on April 08, 2007, 11:44:16 PM

they're better than any star wars prequel

hell, the third one is better than any star wars MOVIE

Word

Stocky · « **Reply #7 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:49:22 PM »

Really, all it would come down to doing is making basically a World War inside The Matrix as machines tried to keep control as the humans were rebelling.

The ending would be that the program finally shut down, and with it, the power for the machines. It's the only fucking time besides showing them on the ship that they should've focused on real life.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #8 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:49:47 PM »

All the movies should have been shot at the same time a la LOTR. It seemed like the fame and praise of the first movie really made them cocky and almost lazy, as if they didn't have to try as hard. The second one was so over the top and different that I can't even take it seriously; to date I haven't seen the full movie, and I've never seen the third one.

That entire concept seemed so good and fresh that it could sustain two sequels, but the execution of it was meh

Ichirou · « **Reply #9 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:50:23 PM »

I think it would've been awesome if it ended with all the humans in The Matrix waking up simultaneously, causing the machines to lose power and begin to shut down.

Stocky · « **Reply #10 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:50:55 PM »

Needless to say, this had the chance to be the greatest trilogy of its time, and turned out to be a fucking mess.

Fresh Prince · « **Reply #11 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:52:07 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on April 08, 2007, 11:49:47 PM

All the movies should have been shot at the same time a la LOTR. It seemed like the fame and praise of the first movie really made them cocky and almost lazy, as if they didn't have to try as hard. The second one was so over the top and different that I can't even take it seriously; to date I haven't seen the full movie, and I've never seen the third one.

That entire concept seemed so good and fresh that it could sustain two sequels, but the execution of it was meh

Uhm wasn't the original Matrix just planned as a once off, then with the success with that they filmed 2 and 3 back to back?

Ichirou · « **Reply #12 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:52:18 PM »

I was never a fan of any of The Matrix movies (including the first one), so I'll have to respectfully disagree. I don't think it ever stood the chance of being a classic, even the first movie feels awfully dated already.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #13 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:53:03 PM »

Quote from: Fresh Prince on April 08, 2007, 11:52:07 PM

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on April 08, 2007, 11:49:47 PM
All the movies should have been shot at the same time a la LOTR. It seemed like the fame and praise of the first movie really made them cocky and almost lazy, as if they didn't have to try as hard. The second one was so over the top and different that I can't even take it seriously; to date I haven't seen the full movie, and I've never seen the third one.

That entire concept seemed so good and fresh that it could sustain two sequels, but the execution of it was meh
Uhm wasn't the original Matrix just planned as a once off, then with the success with that they filmed 2 and 3 back to back?

Really? Hm. I thought it was a case of make one movie, and if it's successful make the other two. Which is basically what Star Wars was according to Lucas

Stocky · « **Reply #14 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:53:42 PM »

The first movie was a great movie, but if they would've stuck with the original idea behind the whole fucking thing, it would have been the build up to the next two. Not that it would be overshadowed, but just not as good.

Ichirou · « **Reply #15 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:54:05 PM »

No, I remember reading it was supposed to be a one-off, but the Wachowskis had a bunch of ideas for The Matrix universe, and they said they could make prequels or sequels depending on whether the main cast wanted to sign up again.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #16 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:54:15 PM »

star wars anh feels horribly dated, and you ponces still get your twee on for it

Ichirou · « **Reply #17 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:54:51 PM »

Quote from: Drinky Crow on April 08, 2007, 11:54:15 PM

star wars anh feels horribly dated, and you ponces still get your twee on for it

The only thing that feels dated about Star Wars is Luke's hairstyle.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #18 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:56:25 PM »

Star Wars is amazing

Stocky · « **Reply #19 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:56:43 PM »

George Lucas is a fucking mess, and so is Star Wars. The biggest pile of shit ever.

Anyone can think up of random fucking creatures, put them in a movie. Anyone can dress up Jedis as taco samurais with psychic powers and put them in a movie.

And if anyone thinks that the Darth Vader "I am your father" bullshit story wasn't used before that, you need to revisit cinema.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #20 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:56:59 PM »

I liked all three. I enjoyed the second one by skipping to where Neo sees the Oracle at the basketball court. I have the Matrix Ultimate Super Dooper edition with the digital transfer of The Matrix.

Ichirou · « **Reply #21 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:57:29 PM »

Quote from: stocky on April 08, 2007, 11:56:43 PM

George Lucas is a fucking mess, and so is Star Wars. The biggest pile of shit ever.

Anyone can think up of random fucking creatures, put them in a movie. Anyone can dress up Jedis as taco samurais with psychic powers and put them in a movie.

And if anyone thinks that the Darth Vader "I am your father" bullshit story wasn't used before that, you need to revisit cinema.

Plz mention other movie series that had that plot twist. Was Flash Gordon Emperor Ming's secret son?

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #22 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:57:42 PM »

bobobobobobobo hero of a thousand faces joseph campbell bobobo

Fresh Prince · « **Reply #23 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:57:59 PM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on April 08, 2007, 11:53:03 PM

Really? Hm. I thought it was a case of make one movie, and if it's successful make the other two. Which is basically what Star Wars was according to Lucas

I'm pretty sure that the Matrix was supposed a single movie. Then they so the success of it so they they decided to make a trilogy of it. That'd be why some of the theology\mythology is convoulted or doesn't carry through to the second and third films, since they didn't have a 'grand plan' storywise just a bunch of wild ideas thrown together.

Ichirou · « **Reply #24 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:58:47 PM »

Quote from: Drinky Crow on April 08, 2007, 11:57:42 PM

bobobobobobobo hero of a thousand faces joseph campbell bobobo

Everyone knows Lucas made that Hero of a Thousand Faces bullshit up after the fact to give the movies some kind of academic credibility. Doesn't change the fact that the Original Trilogy is great, though.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #25 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:59:10 PM »

Quote from: stocky on April 08, 2007, 11:56:43 PM

George Lucas is a fucking mess, and so is Star Wars. The biggest pile of shit ever.

Anyone can think up of random fucking creatures, put them in a movie. Anyone can dress up Jedis as taco samurais with psychic powers and put them in a movie.

And if anyone thinks that the Darth Vader "I am your father" bullshit story wasn't used before that, you need to revisit cinema.

Star Wars was based detail for detail off Joseph Campbell's work on the origin and practice of mythology - of course it shares many similarities with older work. That's also why it has been so successful worldwide.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #26 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:59:51 PM »

The three Matrix movies tied together fine, this wasn't an issue of a 'thrown-together' trilogy so much as it was a case of pot bellied morpheus and rave scene meets viewers inflated expectations.

Himu · « **Reply #27 on:** April 08, 2007, 11:59:54 PM »

Stars Wars feels dated in it's direction. I hate how the story transitions, and the dialogue is beyond shit. I watched the trilogy again over X-mas and it is so average. The only true stand out is ESB.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #28 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:00:23 AM »

Quote from: Ichirou on April 08, 2007, 11:58:47 PM

Quote from: Drinky Crow on April 08, 2007, 11:57:42 PM
bobobobobobobo hero of a thousand faces joseph campbell bobobo

Everyone knows Lucas made that Hero of a Thousand Faces bullshit up after the fact to give the movies some kind of academic credibility. Doesn't change the fact that the Original Trilogy is great, though.

Why did Cambell consider Lucas to be his greatest pupil, and why did Lucas constantly go to Cambell and ask him to help with certain story issues?

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #29 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:01:23 AM »

because campbell wanted a slice of that nerd validation pie

dude, the star wars movies are bollocks. they're badly written, badly acted, badly directed, and campy as hell.

star wars nostalgia is as embarrassing as ninthing nostalgia

Stocky · « **Reply #30 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:01:48 AM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on April 08, 2007, 11:59:10 PM

Quote from: stocky on April 08, 2007, 11:56:43 PM
George Lucas is a fucking mess, and so is Star Wars. The biggest pile of shit ever.

Anyone can think up of random fucking creatures, put them in a movie. Anyone can dress up Jedis as taco samurais with psychic powers and put them in a movie.

And if anyone thinks that the Darth Vader "I am your father" bullshit story wasn't used before that, you need to revisit cinema.

Star Wars was based detail for detail off Joseph Campbell's work on the origin and practice of mythology - of course it shares many similarities with older work. That's also why it has been so successful worldwide.

The real answer as to why it was successful:

People in 1977 were fucking morons. They breeded.

Ichirou · « **Reply #31 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:02:29 AM »

Quote from: Phoenix Dark on April 09, 2007, 12:00:23 AM

Quote from: Ichirou on April 08, 2007, 11:58:47 PM
Quote from: Drinky Crow on April 08, 2007, 11:57:42 PM
bobobobobobobo hero of a thousand faces joseph campbell bobobo

Everyone knows Lucas made that Hero of a Thousand Faces bullshit up after the fact to give the movies some kind of academic credibility. Doesn't change the fact that the Original Trilogy is great, though.

Why did Cambell consider Lucas to be his greatest pupil, and why did Lucas constantly go to Cambell and ask him to help with certain story issues?

Campbell and Lucas didn't even meet until after the first Star Wars flick was a huge success. Campbell saw Lucas as a way for his work to gain popular exposure and Lucas saw Campbell as a way for his work to gain credibility. The two men hardly knew each other and the influence of Campbell's ideas on Lucas's work has been GREATLY exaggerated.

Phoenix Dark · « **Reply #32 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:02:44 AM »

Quote from: Drinky Crow on April 09, 2007, 12:01:23 AM

because campbell wanted a slice of that nerd validation pie

dude, the star wars movies are bollocks. they're badly written, baddly acted, badly directed, and campy as hell.

Did you like the movies when you were young? $:-\$

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #33 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:18:22 AM »

yeah, and i also couldn't believe that they'd make a show cooler than automan

demi · « **Reply #34 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:19:29 AM »

Star Wars movies are pretty bad to watch now, but fuck if the games aren't awesome. Let's all play Jedi Knight.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #35 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:37:25 AM »

Star Wars is the best trilogy ever. You guys are funny when you say it sucks.

Mupepe · « **Reply #36 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:55:14 AM »

Quote from: stocky on April 08, 2007, 11:47:18 PM

The Matrix sequels sucked because they began to make the outside of the Matrix more important.

It might've worked more if they put more emphasis on it in the first movie, but the whole idea of the first movie was THE MATRIX. Not ZION.

Focusing on the battle between Neo and the machines inside the program would've been a better way to go with it, along with keeping Agent Smith fucking dead. Bringing him back was probably the biggest mistake they made.

Once again, stocky is fucking right.

The outside world was boring and made the movie cheesy as fuck (take into consideration how cheesy the first was!).

But anyways, we all knew that Neo would win. We all knew he would become the badass he was supposed to be. The ending to the first just felt perfect.

IT DIDN'T NEED A FUCKING TRILOGY

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #37 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:07:09 AM »

The outside world WAS technically important for motivation. I mean we can go blah blah boring rave blah blah, but in order for any of it to mean anything there HAD to be the outside world and in order for it to be a good story we had to have elements of how what they were doing inside the matrix affected the outside to bring the machine and human worlds together.

Stocky · « **Reply #38 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:22:12 PM »

The outside world took away the importance of The Matrix, like there might be another way to win the war.

The way it was done in the first, on the ship, would've sufficed. Raves, and even the council bullshit was a fucking mistake. The war should've never taken place outside the Matrix.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #39 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:37:10 PM »

Didnt you like that shitty night watch movie?

Stocky · « **Reply #40 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:37:40 PM »

Night Watch was more of a buildup to Day Watch, which was a fucking fantastic movie.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #41 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:38:58 PM »

Underworld movies are better cause of beckinsale in leather! the end!

Robo · « **Reply #42 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:57:43 PM »

What would keeping Agent Smith dead accomplish? Hugo Weaving is the sole source of personality in the two sequels and he carries those fucking films on his back, Han Solo style. Take him out and you have something unwatchable.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #43 on:** April 09, 2007, 12:58:41 PM »

I dunno, I dont think the matrix trilogy is war and peace or anything, but most of the nitpicks from people are pretty stupid sounding.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #44 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:02:45 PM »

I enjoyed all three, but they should have stopped after one. The third one wasn't any good at all.

BUT

IT'S OFFICIAL

TRASHING STAR WARS IS THE COOLEST THING TO DO ON THE INTERNETS AND IT MAKES YOUR ePENIS GROW.

Stocky · « **Reply #45 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:13:43 PM »

No, Star Wars was just overrated. It was fun when you are 12 and you don't know that there is better movies in the genre.

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #46 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:20:01 PM »

I guess in 1977 the Academy was made up of 12 year olds?

Stocky · « **Reply #47 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:22:32 PM »

It won for best Art Direction, Costume Design, Best Effect, Best Editing, Best Music, and Best Sound.

What exactly does that say for the film? OH, IT LOOKS SO PRETTY! TOO BAD THE DIALOGUE WAS FUCKING TERRIBLE AND GEORGE LUCAS IS A HACKJOB

Bloodwake · « **Reply #48 on:** April 09, 2007, 01:37:10 PM »

Wow, stocky, you are going for a HUGE ePenis.

Too bad the movies are still critically acclaimed IRL.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #49 on:** April 09, 2007, 02:43:12 PM »

stocky: kinda sez it SUX

FlameOfCallandor · « **Reply #50 on:** April 09, 2007, 02:44:39 PM »

Quote from: stocky on April 09, 2007, 01:22:32 PM

It won for best Art Direction, Costume Design, Best Effect, Best Editing, Best Music, and Best Sound.

What exactly does that say for the film? OH, IT LOOKS SO PRETTY! TOO BAD THE DIALOGUE WAS FUCKING TERRIBLE AND GEORGE LUCAS IS A HACKJOB

What was it nominated for? oh yea, BEST PICTURE.

Cheebs · « **Reply #51 on:** April 09, 2007, 03:39:12 PM »

Quote from: FlameOfCallandor on April 09, 2007, 02:44:39 PM

Quote from: stocky on April 09, 2007, 01:22:32 PM
It won for best Art Direction, Costume Design, Best Effect, Best Editing, Best Music, and Best Sound.

What exactly does that say for the film? OH, IT LOOKS SO PRETTY! TOO BAD THE DIALOGUE WAS FUCKING TERRIBLE AND GEORGE LUCAS IS A HACKJOB

What was it nominated for? oh yea, BEST PICTURE.

Gigi won best picture in 1958. Vertigo and Touch of Evil weren't even nominated. lol oscars

Stocky · « **Reply #52 on:** April 09, 2007, 03:55:39 PM »

Quote from: FlameOfCallandor on April 09, 2007, 02:44:39 PM

Quote from: stocky on April 09, 2007, 01:22:32 PM
It won for best Art Direction, Costume Design, Best Effect, Best Editing, Best Music, and Best Sound.

What exactly does that say for the film? OH, IT LOOKS SO PRETTY! TOO BAD THE DIALOGUE WAS FUCKING TERRIBLE AND GEORGE LUCAS IS A HACKJOB

What was it nominated for? oh yea, BEST PICTURE.

Did it win? NOPE!

Stocky · « **Reply #53 on:** April 09, 2007, 03:56:11 PM »

Quote from: Bloodwake on April 09, 2007, 01:37:10 PM

Wow, stocky, you are going for a HUGE ePenis.

Too bad the movies are still critically acclaimed IRL.

Yes, Ebert just adored Episodes 1, 2, and 3. ADORED.

Cheebs · « **Reply #54 on:** April 09, 2007, 04:03:10 PM »

Quote from: stocky on April 09, 2007, 03:56:11 PM

Quote from: Bloodwake on April 09, 2007, 01:37:10 PM
Wow, stocky, you are going for a HUGE ePenis.

Too bad the movies are still critically acclaimed IRL.

Yes, Ebert just adored Episodes 1, 2, and 3. ADORED.

the prequels did get pretty good reviews, it was mostly fan hate,not critical hate.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #55 on:** April 09, 2007, 04:05:47 PM »

Basically a double post. Read below.

Bloodwake · « **Reply #56 on:** April 09, 2007, 04:10:42 PM »

Quote from: stocky on April 09, 2007, 03:56:11 PM

Quote from: Bloodwake on April 09, 2007, 01:37:10 PM
Wow, stocky, you are going for a HUGE ePenis.

Too bad the movies are still critically acclaimed IRL.

Yes, Ebert just adored Episodes 1, 2, and 3. ADORED.

AND, to completely show you are a fucking dumbass:

http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/19990517/REVIEWS/905170301/1023 Ebert's review on Episode I
http://rogerebert.suntimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050519/REVIEWS/50503002/1023 Ebert's review on Episode III

If you don't want to waste your time, he gave both THREE AND A HALF STARS, which means a BIG thumbs up.

The only one he didn't like was Episode II, and he still gave it two fucking stars. He didn't say it was like George Lucas raped every fan's mother, unlike everyone on the internet.

Cheebs · « **Reply #57 on:** April 09, 2007, 05:08:17 PM »

I am by no means a prequel lover by any stretch but the internet does over-blow the hate for the movies. The general public seemed to generally like them as did the critics. But did anyone here say the prequels were hated by the press?

bluemax · « **Reply #58 on:** April 09, 2007, 09:11:01 PM »

Because they forgot to buy more than one William Gibson book to rip off. So they only had one books worth of Gibson ideas which they crappily translated into 3 shitty movies.

Eduardo24 · « **Reply #59 on:** April 09, 2007, 09:43:23 PM »

The Star War prequels were not badly received by the public. I have seen only the hate on the internets. And yes, I liked them better than the original trilogy. They are extremely outdated.

News:

Author Topic: Why did the Matrix sequels suck so bad? Was it that hard to make them good? (Read 4341 times)