Author Topic: star trek (Read 184453 times)

VomKriege · « **Reply #2460 on:** January 30, 2020, 07:42:54 AM »

I kinda like Enterprise (not yet Star Trek colon) actually ? The simplicity of it is a huge palette cleanser. Technobabble never bothered me in the moment but the contrast from coming directly from Voyager really make me feel in retrospect how the stories abused it. I'm sure I'll get mad at the Temporal Cold War thing already though.

nachobro · « **Reply #2461 on:** January 30, 2020, 08:08:57 AM »

A lot of the Enterprise backlash was it being four years after Voyager stopping (so people were really wanting another Trek show), not continuing the timeline but going back to the start, and having Bakula on the show. Plus the theme song, which is pretty good in hindsight. I liked the show a lot more when I rewatched it a decade or so later without the baggage of expecting things from the show that it wasn't going to do.

Joe Molotov · « **Reply #2462 on:** January 30, 2020, 11:20:26 AM »

The only episodes of Enterprise that I've watched is the arc where they brought back Brent Spiner as Dr. Soong.

Tuckers Law · « **Reply #2463 on:** January 30, 2020, 11:49:40 AM »

I only saw the first season or two of Enterprise and never went back to finish. I remember distinctly having at the time a big “fuck this fucking shit, I’m out” reaction to the episode where the nazi space-vampires appeared.

Years later, I heard the finale was a massive pile of shit, and thus have never felt compelled to try and finish watching it.

nachobro · « **Reply #2464 on:** January 30, 2020, 11:51:24 AM »

The finale is a real slap in the face for sure.

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2465 on:** January 30, 2020, 12:31:52 PM »

Quote from: VomKriege on January 30, 2020, 07:42:54 AM

I kinda like Enterprise (not yet Star Trek colon) actually ? The simplicity of it is a huge palette cleanser. Technobabble never bothered me in the moment but the contrast from coming directly from Voyager really make me feel in retrospect how the stories abused it. I'm sure I'll get mad at the Temporal Cold War thing already though.

Enterprise premiered like immediately after Voyager ended. Immediately. If they waited a few years Star Trek probably would be on tv right now.

nachobro · « **Reply #2466 on:** January 30, 2020, 12:49:01 PM »

i thought it was a few years but i just looked it up and it really was only 4 months after voyager ended. damn my brain really didn't want to believe that

Stoney Mason · « **Reply #2467 on:** January 30, 2020, 01:42:02 PM »

Watched the first episode of Picard.

Probably already been posted but you can watch it here in us for this week if you haven't seen it already.

For context I really like Discovery so that's where I stand on that.

I liked the premiere episode but I had my issues. I kinda wish it had been a two hour premier episode. I feel like this episode moves very fast to set up the world dominoes. I probably would have preferred a slightly slower pace to ground me in the world and characters. I like where it ends up at the end of the episode but I think I would have preferred a slower trip there.

I like that it's not just another show on a ship. I've always felt Star Trek on television could expand beyond just being that, not that I don't think it won't end up having its fair size tropes of trek on a ship moments.

The special effects are a little sketchy. It's easier to do sci-fi when you are confined to a ship and limited locales especially exteriors. Definitely trickier if you are trying to tell stories in cities where the special effects have to do the whole job of simulating an entire world. It's not a big issue with me, as I'm not a stickler when it comes to special effects in the first place, but its noticeable.

We'll see where it goes and how I feel after it starts to move the plot along.

MMaRsu · « **Reply #2468 on:** January 30, 2020, 04:12:11 PM »

New Picard was pretty good

VomKriege · « **Reply #2469 on:** January 30, 2020, 04:33:20 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on January 30, 2020, 12:49:01 PM

i thought it was a few years but i just looked it up and it really was only 4 months after voyager ended. damn my brain really didn't want to believe that

TNG - DS9 - VOY - ENT & the movies were "18 years or so of continuous production" to quote what I read, fatigue was inevitable.

I don't know if launching Discovery then Picard in such short order (though I'd imagine it's maybe planned for a shorter overall duration than 7 years each) is really a great idea but I guess it's go for broke when it's time to milk that cow.

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2470 on:** January 30, 2020, 04:56:42 PM »

That has been my argument against the trek milking. They beat Trek to death. In the 90's and early 00's and they're doing it all over again. We do not need three to four different trek shows on at once and of course Trekkies don't want to hear it

nachobro · « **Reply #2471 on:** January 30, 2020, 04:58:49 PM »

fwiw the current crop of trek shows seem pretty different from each other compared to before

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven · « **Reply #2472 on:** January 30, 2020, 05:05:23 PM »

Quote from: Cindi Mayweather on January 30, 2020, 04:56:42 PM

That has been my argument against the trek milking. They beat Trek to death. In the 90's and early 00's and they're doing it all over again. We do not need three to four different trek shows on at once and of course Trekkies don't want to hear it

I really do think they're desperate to make ~~fetch~~ cbs all access or whatever its called a thing and this is basically all they got to try and do that.
See also the mandalorian tbh.

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2473 on:** January 30, 2020, 05:57:00 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on January 30, 2020, 04:58:49 PM

fwiw the current crop of trek shows seem pretty different from each other compared to before

True Voyager and ENT just rehashed TNG. They wore that formula thin.

nachobro · « **Reply #2474 on:** January 31, 2020, 08:49:12 AM »

liked the second picard episode, dunno how we are handling spoilers here so i'll just say that the conversation he had with the admiral was sobering. definitely shows a different view on starfleet than we are used to from TNG era.

this part specifically

spoiler (click to show/hide)

CLANCY: The Romulans were our enemies, and we tried to help them for as long as we could. But even before the synthetics attacked Mars, fourteen species within the Federation said "cut the romulans loose" or we'll pull out. It was a choice between allowing the Federation to implode or letting the Romulans go.

PICARD: The Federation does not get to decide if a species lives or dies.

CLANCY: Yes we do.

[close]

when she said that my wife and i just looked at each other and both raised our eyebrows. things have really changed and considering the history of everything that happened in the show/movie canon it does make sense in a way.

saw a really good post on r/daystrominstitute (an excellent sub btw) that sums up my feelings really well on the show and its new perspective so far. it does have spoilers for the first two eps but it's worth a read
https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/ew9fg8/the_other_side_of_jeanluc/

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2475 on:** January 31, 2020, 09:16:01 AM »

It makes sense the federation would be more war hawkish and TOS like after the dominion war.

Also we've always had questionable admin behavior. The whole Maquis thing? Staff like Jelico? The rot of the issues raised at the academy and its students. It's almost like Picard and the Enterprise were operating on the ideal of the federation more than anyone else.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven · « **Reply #2476 on:** January 31, 2020, 10:17:26 AM »

always relevant clip about why that underlying idealism about what the future could be (that star trek is pretty unique in portraying) has kept its fanbase going for half a century now

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2477 on:** January 31, 2020, 10:57:10 AM »

This post on the Picard Daystrom thread is fantastic

- - - - - - -

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I think there are a lot of people watching the first two episodes with nostalgia glasses on and not looking at the Federation as analogous to The United States as an entity.

The US was an experiment and there's not really a historical comparison--a country built on democracy with self-governed states making up the whole. It's a big country with a lot of moving parts, maybe too big with too many at times. People from California are as different as people from New York as they are from Tennessee. And it was never perfect, like people like to think it once was. There have always been problems, enemies, corruptions, moral failures.

So looking at a Federation that is now in its 238th year of existence, made up of 150 member worlds over hundreds of light years with different species with different points of view and cultures and histories, why is anyone surprised that when we get our boots on the ground that Starfleet and the Federation may be different from what we have been exposed to? Four ships, a station, a handful of admirals and an idyllic group of explorers.

I think that the more time has passed since the inception of an idea the more convoluted it gets. I believe that Commodore Oh is actually Vulcan but part of that larger sect, but even though she technically is from a member world she is compromised. It's like a galaxy-spanning game of telephone. Unless everyone you meet is 100% into the Federation ideal the people that join up and rise the ranks are at risk of doing something antithetical to the whole concept.

As OP pointed out, even Picard is not immune to the wheels of time and to scrutiny.

[close]

nachobro · « **Reply #2478 on:** January 31, 2020, 11:02:21 AM »

yeah its important to note that WE know the decisions and background info on stuff like locutus and wolf359 and all the other issues and incidents in the saga of the borg and dominion war and shinzon and all that, but the general public of the federation does not. so they could have a much different view of picard in that light. sisko and his view on picard in the first episode of DS9 is the perfect example of that.

also might want to spoiler that commodore bit? i dunno. anyway on her...

spoiler (click to show/hide)

i assumed she was romulan at first but then realized that's probably unlikely since they are officially "enemies" of the federation. the lieutenant who's name i forgot is in a disguise so it's possible the commodore is too.

a vulcan who was turned by the romulans would be something really interesting though, and i'm not opposed to the idea.

[close]

either way i really am looking forward to episode 3. really liking the "aw, that's it? i want more" feeling i get at the end of each episode so far.

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2479 on:** January 31, 2020, 11:07:08 AM »

I seriously don't understand reading an in depth convo and complaining about spoilers but I'll oblige.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

I like the idea of a Vulcan that's actually Romulan and being in Starfleet. It's likely to be true and it will put into question what Starfleet would do about such a case. We've established that federation won't take in romulan aid and refugeee. How will they react when a commander is revealed to be romulan? I also like the mystery surrounding these characters and their allegiances. Like we have no idea what the twin wants.

[close]

I am really liking this show. It's like a continuation of DS9 more than TNG's principles.

nachobro · « **Reply #2480 on:** January 31, 2020, 11:09:52 AM »

its more for the benefit of those in other countries and/or with parental obligations that stop em from watching the show day one. personally i don't believe that spoilers out of context ruin anything but its such a mixed thread with old and new trek being discussed back and forth, that's all.

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2481 on:** January 31, 2020, 11:26:22 AM »

It's been a while so I rewatched the scene in Emissary between Sisko and Picard.

Picard (the show) is definitely evoking a similar feeling.

Like many of Jean Luc's best tales, it seems the show will basically come down to the ideal versus pragmatism.

Also:

Quote

I also think those who are viewing it with rose tinted glasses may have skipped some viewing.

We've already seen members of the Federation happy to see a major species die from a disaster, and a conspiracy between the Federation and Romulans - The Undiscovered Country.

A lot of the stuff I've seen on the Star Trek sub singled out often angrily as just impossible from Trek was established in a Kirk film that came out in the middle of TNG's run.

MMaRsu · « **Reply #2482 on:** January 31, 2020, 12:08:39 PM »

slightly sped up Youtube videos

Coffee Dog · « **Reply #2483 on:** January 31, 2020, 02:34:18 PM »

Considering undiscovered country is a bunch of kirkwanking with a scooby doo villain that's a much better comparison than i initially thought

Potato · « **Reply #2484 on:** January 31, 2020, 05:22:21 PM »

RE spoilers: I'm watching with my trekkie friend, but he's overseas for work for three weeks, so I'm on blackout from Picard.

My attitude is that it's up to me to avoid spoilers, but it's probably polite to wait at least a week before openly discussing stuff.

benjipwns · « **Reply #2485 on:** January 31, 2020, 06:07:24 PM »

It wasn't a conspiracy between the Federation and the Romulans in The Undiscovered Country. The Undiscovered Country is a fall of the Soviet Union allegory.

It was a separatist group within the Federation AND the Klingons that wished to prevent peace to maintain the status quo. The Romulans are named at the end in the conspiracy simply because preventing the alliance is in their normal strategic goals. The Romulans make their actual move decades later at the other Khitomer Event.

VomKriege · « **Reply #2486 on:** January 31, 2020, 06:27:04 PM »

Wow, that's some bad drunken acting from Southern Cracker and British Cracker.

thisismyusername · « **Reply #2487 on:** February 01, 2020, 12:15:27 AM »

Quote from: Stoney Mason on January 30, 2020, 01:42:02 PM

Very cool. I'll maybe check it out for Patrick Ste--

*CBS, a fucking megacorp broadcasting Network with Captions on TV can't fucking put them up on their Youtube videos*

Whisky. Tango. Foxtrot.

VomKriege · « **Reply #2488 on:** February 01, 2020, 03:50:31 PM »

Enterprise has a lot of flaws but no holodreck

I wondered in this very thread back when watching TOS why Starfleet wasn't running with Vulcans everywhere considering they live longer, more resistant to environment, stronger and smarter. It's always been clear they're often smug xenophobes but I like that Enterprise adresses that in more political detail, going so far as to suggest a certain amount of imperialism. I think it's new because while they were at odds with Romulans, there was never much made of militaries capabilities or even will to defend by force.

D3RANG3D · « **Reply #2489 on:** February 01, 2020, 04:51:23 PM »

Vulcans are totally the ~~world~~ universe police murica style in ENT.

VomKriege · « **Reply #2490 on:** February 02, 2020, 10:00:13 AM »

https://www.reddit.com/r/DaystromInstitute/comments/ewp0jc/starfleet_admirals_and_the_philosopher_king/

at the number of disgruntled academics in that thread.

nachobro · « **Reply #2491 on:** February 03, 2020, 02:16:57 PM »

one of the promo shots for the new picard episode show a flashback to post-Nemesis and what the uniforms looked like

spoiler (click to show/hide)

[close]

VomKriege · « **Reply #2492 on:** February 03, 2020, 02:18:41 PM »

Penguins 2021 jersey is rad.

VomKriege · « **Reply #2493 on:** February 03, 2020, 04:10:29 PM »

Bakula's Quidditch champion of the Mujahideen.

D3RANG3D · « **Reply #2494 on:** February 03, 2020, 04:17:06 PM »

Those uniforms.

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2495 on:** February 03, 2020, 04:35:16 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on February 03, 2020, 02:16:57 PM

one of the promo shots for the new picard episode show a flashback to post-Nemesis and what the uniforms looked like

spoiler (click to show/hide)
[close]

Gross

VomKriege · « **Reply #2496 on:** February 03, 2020, 04:41:52 PM »

To be fair, I don't think any of the uniforms since the service colors were relegated to secondary (so early TNG) looked all that hot.

nachobro · « **Reply #2497 on:** February 03, 2020, 04:50:00 PM »

buncha haters

Great Rumbler · « **Reply #2498 on:** February 03, 2020, 04:54:07 PM »

Bring back the one-piece spandex jumpsuits, you cowards!

VomKriege · « **Reply #2499 on:** February 03, 2020, 04:58:55 PM »

Enterprise's "Dear Doctor" is apparently a close contender to "Tuvix" if you want to start an argument at a Trek convention and whether it ruins Phlox. I didn't get all hot & steamy but yeah it's built on what seem to be a fairly fishy way to interpret the Theory of Evolution. I guess in a way the lore wrote itself into a corner with the whole "one homogeneous species per planet".

VomKriege · « **Reply #2500 on:** February 05, 2020, 07:30:33 PM »

Enterprise's Dead Stop is legit one of the best and tightest Star Trek scripts in a long time.

The retcons to the general Star Trek timeline are a bit

(no matter how improbable, the TOS evocation of the first war against the Romulans fought in antiquated rockets had more flair than them having technology much closer of the rest of the franchise) but I don't care a lot about continuity if you bend it for decent stories.

As expected, the time travel stuff is

benjipwns · « **Reply #2501 on:** February 05, 2020, 07:44:16 PM »

Like I mentioned, I think Enterprise does better than Voyager are making "unexplored" space seem risky, dangerous and mysterious. "Dead Stop" is one of those episodes I remember, along with most of "The Catwalk" coming up, at creating a threat for the crew that doesn't have to be some other species, it can be a legit thing. And it can be restrained instead of drowning everything in technobabble.

D3RANG3D · « **Reply #2502 on:** February 06, 2020, 05:03:29 AM »

Saw ep3 of Picard and it's poop.

MMaRsu · « **Reply #2503 on:** February 06, 2020, 07:31:29 AM »

Quote from: D3RANG3D on February 06, 2020, 05:03:29 AM

Saw ep3 of Picard and it's poop.

dang

VomKriege · « **Reply #2504 on:** February 06, 2020, 04:32:00 PM »

Porthos triggering Archer's JANEWAY BLOODLUST

I think Enterprise has a good episodic / continuity balance too.

"How long since your last sexual intercourse Captain ?"
I take it Archer didn't bone plastic surgery Dean Stockwell on Risa.

VomKriege · « **Reply #2505 on:** February 07, 2020, 01:44:40 PM »

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyDaystrom/comments/evgqyi/in_tng_brothers_riker_and_the_senior_staff_are/

VomKriege · « **Reply #2506 on:** February 07, 2020, 04:09:48 PM »

British Cracker officially now British Angst.

chronovore · « **Reply #2507 on:** February 08, 2020, 02:05:51 AM »

Quote from: benjipwns on February 05, 2020, 07:44:16 PM

Like I mentioned, I think Enterprise does better than Voyager are making "unexplored" space seem risky, dangerous and mysterious. "Dead Stop" is one of those episodes I remember, along with most of "The Catwalk" coming up, at creating a threat for the crew that doesn't have to be some other species, it can be a legit thing. And it can be restrained instead of drowning everything in technobabble.

I just went and re-watched this episode, and was reminded how much I enjoyed it the first time. It does a good job on making the station feel strange and mysterious, and ultimately ends with very few of the raised questions answered. ENT got short shrift in general; it's a better series than VOY.

Quote from: VomKriege on February 07, 2020, 01:44:40 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyDaystrom/comments/evgqyi/in_tng_brothers_riker_and_the_senior_staff_are/

I'll have to check that one out next.

nachobro · « **Reply #2508 on:** February 08, 2020, 11:26:20 AM »

voyager might have my favorite theme though

D3RANG3D · « **Reply #2509 on:** February 08, 2020, 05:19:08 PM »

VomKriege · « **Reply #2510 on:** February 08, 2020, 06:47:13 PM »

Quote from: nachobro on February 08, 2020, 11:26:20 AM

voyager might have my favorite theme though

I think the Goldsmith theme for The Motion Picture that they reused for TNG is super good but the Voyager one is a lot better than the series deserve.

benjipwns · « **Reply #2511 on:** February 08, 2020, 10:32:53 PM »

IT'S BEEN A LONG ROAD

GETTING FROM THERE TO HERE

IT'S BEEN A LONG TIME

BUT MY TIME IS FINALLY NEAR

AND I WILL SEE MY DREAM COME ALIVE AT LAST

I WILL TOUCH THE SKY

AND THEY'RE NOT GONNA HOLD ME DOWN NO MORE

NO THEY'RE NOT GONNA CHANGE MY MIND

GONNA RISE UP KICK A LITTLE ASS ROCK FLAG AND EAGLE

benjipwns · « **Reply #2512 on:** February 08, 2020, 10:37:42 PM »

and looked it up and I nailed it somehow

the Enterprise version isn't the actual song version, it's like two of the verses and a bridge rearraigned into one verse so it sounds like it's about flight, then like DS9 they do a minor redo to the music in a later season but I forget which

D3RANG3D · « **Reply #2513 on:** February 09, 2020, 04:29:58 AM »

Quote from: VomKriege on February 07, 2020, 01:44:40 PM

https://www.reddit.com/r/ShittyDaystrom/comments/evgqyi/in_tng_brothers_riker_and_the_senior_staff_are/

Quote

Is Riker retired in STP because Troi hit Betazoid menopause, quadrupling her sex drive, so now he's basically nothing more than a sex slave?

VomKriege · « **Reply #2514 on:** February 09, 2020, 05:57:42 PM »

What if Roy Batty's speech but in a southern accent ?

Trip is like the most facile thing ever but he's kind of growing on me.
Phlox is good, I'm glad they finally worked out a a good doctor not of the jerkass type.

The Catwalk wasn't as good as Dead Stop but not bad, I liked how the last act was condensed at the very end. Made for a tense and explosive conclusion.

Wow that AIDS metaphor is really transparent. Kinda awkward how Archer goes "Oh yeah you were [sexually] assaulted

now I remember.". I guess it was for the benefit of infrequent viewers.

VomKriege · « **Reply #2515 on:** February 11, 2020, 05:42:42 PM »

"- They should put families on starships.
- They would have to put a psychologist too then !"

FUUUUCKKKK OFFFFFF

Cindi Mayweather · « **Reply #2516 on:** February 11, 2020, 05:52:09 PM »

Leave Troi alone

D3RANG3D · « **Reply #2517 on:** February 13, 2020, 12:04:04 PM »

Star Trek Picard EPIV There and Back Again aka Romulan Rivendell.

MMaRsu · « **Reply #2518 on:** February 13, 2020, 02:07:17 PM »

I thought it was ok although highly predictible also a bit boring

D3RANG3D · « **Reply #2519 on:** February 13, 2020, 02:20:04 PM »

If you told me this and the recent Shannara share the same universe I wouldn't question it.

News:

Author Topic: star trek (Read 184453 times)