VOAT Containment Megathread of Trash People for Trash People

[seagrams hotsauce]

Fuck this thread and fuck the wildly disingenuous 'gotta hear both sides' shit that's pervading since tuesday. Shit makes me sick.

[Cindi Mayweather]

I think there's a differences between "got to hear both sides" and trying to understand why and how Hillary lost such a crucial election and the cultural attitudes surrounding it that contributed to it. Whether you agree that white working class voters in the rust belt voted through racism or not, nothing changes the fact that Hillary didn't go to Wisconsin once, and that her campaign was in panic mode the final few days to try to make sure they didn't lose Michigan because they had done polling only a few days before the election despite the fact she lost it to Sanders.

One take waves away concerns. The other one tries to understand wtf happened so this can never happen again.

If you treat this election with a blanket assumption "they're all racist and there's nothing better she and her campaign could have done" then you have learned nothing from the loss and we are doomed to repeat it.

The problem with many in the BCT and elsewhere is that's there's a "fuck them" attitude. That's not bad by itself because I agree with them and that's why I plan on protesting Trump with all of my being. The problem is they  have conflsted an attempt to understand why Democrats lost so badly on Tuesday with "what about both sides?"

Because let's be honest, Hillary lost blue states that were given. Piling them all as racist seems incredibly dismissive and very unwise as we continue forward.

[seagrams hotsauce]

nm im drunk and not articulating shit well at all

[Averon]

Clinton shat the bed because the typical Rust Belt voter who want their old way for life back heard nothing from her that convinced them that she'd improve their lives. It is hard to say, but Joe from rural Ohio who is out of a job because the local factory closed down due to automation or job shipping to Mexico or China doesn't care about police brutality or gay right. Or at the very least they put their family's financial situation above those other issues.

The next Democratic nominee is going to have find a way connect to those rural voters' needs while also not putting minorities and LGBT rights on the back burner. Obama what able to put this off in 2008 and 2012, so it is not an impossible task.

[benjipwns]

The next Democratic nominee is going to have find a way connect to those rural voters' needs while also no putting minorities and LGBT rights on the back burner.

Or we could start the war now, while Obama is Commander-in-Chief with control of the military, and able to stop this fascist coup and save democracy.

Waiting for another nominee isn't going to mean much when the FBI, Russian hackers and propagandists back the ignorant filth once again to thwart the true will of the American people and steal the nation from its citizens.

[benjipwns]

The whole post-fascist period is one of clear and present danger. Consequently, true pacification requires the withdrawal of tolerance before the deed, at the stage of communication in word, print, and picture. Such extreme suspension of the right of free speech and free assembly is indeed justified only if the whole of society is in extreme danger. I maintain that our society is in such an emergency situation, and that it has become the normal state of affairs. Different opinions and 'philosophies' can no longer compete peacefully for adherence and persuasion on rational grounds: the 'marketplace of ideas' is organized and delimited by those who determine the national and the individual interest. In this society, for which the ideologists have proclaimed the 'end of ideology', the false consciousness has become the general consciousness--from the government down to its last objects. The small and powerless minorities which struggle against the false consciousness and its beneficiaries must be helped: their continued existence is more important than the preservation of abused rights and liberties which grant constitutional powers to those who oppress these minorities. It should be evident by now that the exercise of civil rights by those who don't have them presupposes the withdrawal of civil rights from those who prevent their exercise, and that liberation of the Damned of the Earth presupposes suppression not only of their old but also of their new masters.

Withdrawal of tolerance from regressive movements before they can become active; intolerance even toward thought, opinion, and word, and finally, intolerance in the opposite direction, that is, toward the self-styled conservatives, to the political Right--these anti-democratic notions respond to the actual development of the democratic society which has destroyed the basis for universal tolerance. The conditions under which tolerance can again become a liberating and humanizing force have still to be created. When tolerance mainly serves the protection and preservation of a repressive society, when it serves to neutralize opposition and to render men immune against other and better forms of life, then tolerance has been perverted. And when this perversion starts in the mind of the individual, in his consciousness, his needs, when heteronomous interests occupy him before he can experience his servitude, then the efforts to counteract his dehumanization must begin at the place of entrance, there where the false consciousness takes form (or rather: is systematically formed)--it must begin with stopping the words and images which feed this consciousness. To be sure, this is censorship, even precensorship, but openly directed against the more or less hidden censorship that permeates the free media. Where the false consciousness has become prevalent in national and popular behavior, it translates itself almost immediately into practice: the safe distance between ideology and reality, repressive thought and repressive action, between the word of destruction and the deed of destruction is dangerously shortened. Thus, the break through the false consciousness may provide the Archimedean point for a larger emancipation--at an infinitesimally small spot, to be sure, but it is on the enlargement of such small spots that the chance of change depends.

UNDER the conditions prevailing in this country, tolerance does not, and cannot, fulfill the civilizing function attributed to it by the liberal protagonists of democracy, namely, protection of dissent. The progressive historical force of tolerance lies in its extension to those modes and forms of dissent which are not committed to the status quo of society, and not confined to the institutional framework of the established society. Consequently, the idea of tolerance implies the necessity, for the dissenting group or individuals, to become illegitimate if and when the established legitimacy prevents and counteracts the development of dissent. This would be the case not only in a totalitarian society, under a dictatorship, in one-party states, but also in a democracy (representative, parliamentary, or 'direct') where the majority does not result from the development of independent thought and opinion but rather from the monopolistic or oligopolistic administration of public opinion, without terror and (normally) without censorship. In such cases, the majority is self-perpetuating while perpetuating the vested interests which made it a majority. In its very structure this majority is 'closed', petrified; it repels a priori any change other than changes within the system. But this means that the majority is no longer justified in claiming the democratic title of the best guardian of the common interest. And such a majority is all but the opposite of Rousseau's 'general will': it is composed, not of individuals who, in their political functions, have made effective 'abstraction' from their private interests, but, on the contrary, of individuals who have effectively identified their private. interests with their political functions. And the representatives of this majority, in ascertaining and executing its will, ascertain and execute the will of the vested interests, which have formed the majority. The ideology of democracy hides its lack of substance.

[benjipwns]

finally, getting around to real world solutions:

Are there any countries with better media and what can we do to try and emulate that, especially without breaking the first amendment?

We need to get a public station with an equivalent level of relevance as the BBC has in England. Something where we can actually enforce reasonable reporting standards.

[archie4208]

And...welcome to every video game generation cycle ever.  Prices fall and consoles can be had for cheaper prices.  What is the point here?  If you want a PC, it's for better performance/graphics, cheaper game prices, tons of games that are only on PC, and then stuff like mods and using it for things besides gaming.   You're paying $299 for what is now the "outdated" lower-end PS4 model and then have to pay an additional fee to play online and higher prices for new releases.

Can't wait to slap a $350 Nvidia 1170 card in my PC next year and absolutely crush the PS4 Pro. 

t. PS4 Pro owner.

[Raist]

finally, getting around to real world solutions:

Are there any countries with better media and what can we do to try and emulate that, especially without breaking the first amendment?

We need to get a public station with an equivalent level of relevance as the BBC has in England. Something where we can actually enforce reasonable reporting standards.

We need to get a public station with an equivalent level of relevance as the BBC has in England. Something where we can actually enforce reasonable reporting standards.

the BBC has in England. Something where we can actually enforce reasonable reporting standards.

the BBC. reasonable reporting standards.

 

[Optimus]

GAF lost relevancy and visitors. It never had mindshare. At a certain point, Tyler just went in on the idea that he was going to lose visitors but cultivate a core base of users so extremely non-questioning that its still attractive to advertisers. As in, he can't compete with reddit, but he can give companies a garden of useful idiots that may be more susceptible to native advertising and ads in general than reddit can.

However, those type of users can't handle losing or alterations or any glitch in the system, so they're melting down. There is no moderation answer to that. Just gotta contain the meltdown and hope the user loss isn't too severe for your dwindling monetary gains.

I've been wondering for quite a while what the fuck he's been doing. I mean look at this disaster:



Yours is the only explanation that makes any kind of sense. Still that's a risky strategy, it's the same one somethingawful followed too which resulted in the forum becoming completely irrelevant.

[Averon]

I don't think 'Lore cares about relevancy as long as the ad dollars continue to flow.

[Take My Breh Away]

I don't think 'Lore cares about relevancy as long as the ad dollars continue to flow.

That's the problem. They aren't flowing as much as they used to when they had quality ads and he's resorting to bad ad networks that push malware and pop-unders to scrape some money out of it. Then feigning ignorance and claiming he will fix it when brought up on it. And even then those bad ad networks pay nowhere near as much better as the ad networks or placed ads on the front page.

Evilore is fiddling while neogaf burns.

[VomKriege]

finally, getting around to real world solutions:

Are there any countries with better media and what can we do to try and emulate that, especially without breaking the first amendment?

We need to get a public station with an equivalent level of relevance as the BBC has in England. Something where we can actually enforce reasonable reporting standards.

That's the price of a free press. Public channels in Europe are not preventing the rise of far right. That's giving media too much credit to be fair. They can raise the standard and elevate the quality of programming but it's always an uphill battle.

There's a public Franco-German national network channel called Arte. It's great, thoughtful & intelligent. Viewership is only a couple million or so. It is what it is. Guess it's the same for PBS, NPR or Cspan.

People elected Trump because really we're all dumb feggits.

[Rufus]

finally, getting around to real world solutions:

Are there any countries with better media and what can we do to try and emulate that, especially without breaking the first amendment?

We need to get a public station with an equivalent level of relevance as the BBC has in England. Something where we can actually enforce reasonable reporting standards.

That's the price of a free press. Public channels in Europe are not preventing the rise of far right. That's giving media too much credit to be fair. They can raise the standard and elevate the quality of programming but it's always an uphill battle.

Over here in Germany, established media are all written off as being liars ("Lügenpresse)" anyway. By people who now get their news from Facebook and questionable blogs. With a certain segment, that fight is forever lost.

[Raist]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=224295051&postcount=1979

call me when you remove the obnoxious adverts, neogaf

[Cerveza mas fina]

Lore doubling down on his shitty moderation means neogaf will burn out quicker

[wsippel]

finally, getting around to real world solutions:

Are there any countries with better media and what can we do to try and emulate that, especially without breaking the first amendment?

We need to get a public station with an equivalent level of relevance as the BBC has in England. Something where we can actually enforce reasonable reporting standards.

That's the price of a free press. Public channels in Europe are not preventing the rise of far right. That's giving media too much credit to be fair. They can raise the standard and elevate the quality of programming but it's always an uphill battle.

Over here in Germany, established media are all written off as being liars ("Lügenpresse)" anyway. By people who now get their news from Facebook and questionable blogs. With a certain segment, that fight is forever lost.

That's really their own damn fault. Many established outlets, ZDF and Spiegel in particular, are incredibly and obviously biased. An example: Just recently, they made a big deal out of the attack on a Turkish café in Essen - until the police reported that Kurdish extremists, not neo nazis, were responsible, and they suddenly stopped caring and started focusing on other, less relevant shit that better fits their agenda. Funnily enough, one of the most entertaining liberal conservative writers in Germany, Achim Winter, works for the ZDF, but he only gets three minutes every Friday.

The US election could have served as a wake-up call, but they have their heads stuck so far up their own asses, they instead decided to double down. Then again, they didn't learn anything from Brexit either. Kinda sad, really.

[Momo]

Lore doubling down on his shitty moderation means neogaf will burn out quicker

It's completely cartoonish how there was a sliver of a thought that they were out of touch and then they effectively blamed the kids and tripled down.

[MMaRsu]

Lore doubling down on his shitty moderation means neogaf will burn out quicker

Good. Fuck Evilore and his shitty mod team

 

[zepblackstar]

Man, I'm a goddamn idiot for thinking GAF would change just a little bit after their echo chamber shattered Tuesday night. It seems the staff and 'Lore will just double down on the path they are on.

As for that Lime thread, he/she is such a goddamn troll
GAFers really need to to educate themselves about Lime's shtick.

no way, this is the perfect time to double down and make it known as a safe place for that kind of poster.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Somewhat enjoying GAF being like "Religion is such a farce. Look at all the shit it's done LOL! Christianity what a cult!"

Then one of their friends is like "Yeah, I mean look at islam and all the problems it's caused!"

And GAF is like "How could you say that?! I'm cutting you out of my life!!!"

[ToxicAdam]

Clinton shat the bed because the typical Rust Belt voter who want their old way for life back heard nothing from her that convinced them that she'd improve their lives. It is hard to say, but Joe from rural Ohio who is out of a job because the local factory closed down due to automation or job shipping to Mexico or China doesn't care about police brutality or gay right. Or at the very least they put their family's financial situation above those other issues.

I think some of it is because Democrats nationally have cried wolf for too long. Every candidate that the Republicans present is the worst 'racist, misogynist, fascist' we have ever seen (even milquetoast dudes like Romney) that when the 'real thing' finally showed up, those concerns carried less merit with the average moderate white voter. It was rhetoric they've heard for the past 5 decades.

[Shuri]

gaf #nextrend - bragging about how many people you've cut off due to the elections. The higher, the better

[zomgee]

Fuck this thread and fuck the wildly disingenuous 'gotta hear both sides' shit that's pervading since tuesday. Shit makes me sick.

Look, the truth of the matter is there will always be a both sides argument but there will also always be a need to steer people in the right direction.

The PS4 and the PC can complement each other but when in comes to real pure gaming you can get a PS4 with Uncharted 4 for

$299.00

This is why we fight. 

[Cindi Mayweather]

Somewhat enjoying GAF being like "Religion is such a farce. Look at all the shit it's done LOL! Christianity what a cult!"

Then one of their friends is like "Yeah, I mean look at islam and all the problems it's caused!"

And GAF is like "How could you say that?! I'm cutting you out of my life!!!"

I know you're trying to be a smart ass but please point to me where gaffers want all Christian's to be on a list, think Christianity is a violent and dangerous religion that will destroy us all, and want Christian's deported? Furthermore, when people on the right generally say Muslim, they think of brown and black people, so there's a racial component as well.

Your attempt to try to sniff hypocrisy out of gaffers is try hard and incredibly disingenuous. All it does it makes you look silly.

[I'm a Puppy!]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

[MMaRsu]

Fuck this thread and fuck the wildly disingenuous 'gotta hear both sides' shit that's pervading since tuesday. Shit makes me sick.

Look, the truth of the matter is there will always be a both sides argument but there will also always be a need to steer people in the right direction.

The PS4 and the PC can complement each other but when in comes to real pure gaming you can get a PS4 with Uncharted 4 for

$299.00

This is why we fight.

Exactly I heard you need at least 1500$ to build a decent gaming pc so yea

[Cindi Mayweather]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

I'm assuming you're referencing to the thread that was made today about the poster whose friend is an alt-right supporter. The alt-right has no sympathetic views of Islam and their argument certainly isn't "look at what islam has caused". The alt-right also supports Trump who literally said that he wants all Muslims in America to be documented and potentially deported. But somehow this is the same equivalent to being hard on Christianity. Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Let's be honest. Most criticisms towards Islam isn't "look at what islam has caused".

Your Mormonism is showing.

[Cindi Mayweather]

For a short time, yeah, but I'm not seeing how it takes away from my argument.

[Phoenix Dark]

Abrahamic religion

[I'm a Puppy!]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

I'm assuming you're referencing to the thread that was made today about the poster whose friend is an alt-right supporter. The alt-right has no sympathetic views of Islam and their argument certainly isn't "look at what islam has caused". The alt-right also supports Trump who literally said that he wants all Muslims in America to be documented and potentially deported. But somehow this is the same equivalent to being hard on Christianity. Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Let's be honest. Most criticisms towards Islam isn't "look at what islam has caused".

Your Mormonism is showing.

Damn right it is. Who better to tell you what an echo-chamber looks like than someone who was in one for decades?

[Cerveza mas fina]

no more echo chamber talk plz guys stop

[Cerveza mas fina]

bruv ima put my d in your echo chamber if you dont chill

[I'm a Puppy!]

Finally, gay subtext is coming back

[railGUN]

NeoGAF? More like Live Journal, am i rite? 

[Cerveza mas fina]

[Stro]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

I'm assuming you're referencing to the thread that was made today about the poster whose friend is an alt-right supporter. The alt-right has no sympathetic views of Islam and their argument certainly isn't "look at what islam has caused". The alt-right also supports Trump who literally said that he wants all Muslims in America to be documented and potentially deported. But somehow this is the same equivalent to being hard on Christianity. Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Let's be honest. Most criticisms towards Islam isn't "look at what islam has caused".

Your Mormonism is showing.

Pretty sure you can be alt-left and have no sympathies to Islam. Not sure why you're tying criticism of Islam to alt-right, or that being critical of Islam = you want them all put on a list or round up and shot.

[Optimus]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

I'm assuming you're referencing to the thread that was made today about the poster whose friend is an alt-right supporter. The alt-right has no sympathetic views of Islam and their argument certainly isn't "look at what islam has caused". The alt-right also supports Trump who literally said that he wants all Muslims in America to be documented and potentially deported. But somehow this is the same equivalent to being hard on Christianity. Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Let's be honest. Most criticisms towards Islam isn't "look at what islam has caused".

Your Mormonism is showing.

Newsflash: Religion isn't a race. I dislike Islam which I consider the most toxic religion on the planet and consider its fundies complete morons (not saying much though, all religious fundies are complete morons). Nope not a racist. I also dislike capitalism and have little respect for its fundies aka libertarians. Nope not a racist either. Both ideologies btw.

 It's stupid accusations like that that are getting spammed in the media and Hollywood the last few years what made people sick of identity politics whining so they stopped taking it seriously altogether. It numbed them so much that they didn't even have a problem with Trump anymore. Congrats, you're part of the problem, say whatever you want about gamergate but many in that community whose majority btw is left and anti-authoritarian, had predicted that kind of backlash.

[Cindi Mayweather]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

I'm assuming you're referencing to the thread that was made today about the poster whose friend is an alt-right supporter. The alt-right has no sympathetic views of Islam and their argument certainly isn't "look at what islam has caused". The alt-right also supports Trump who literally said that he wants all Muslims in America to be documented and potentially deported. But somehow this is the same equivalent to being hard on Christianity. Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Let's be honest. Most criticisms towards Islam isn't "look at what islam has caused".

Your Mormonism is showing.

Pretty sure you can be alt-left and have no sympathies to Islam. Not sure why you're tying criticism of Islam to alt-right, or that being critical of Islam = you want them all put on a list or round up and shot.

The criticism is from the fact that the thread he was most likely referring to mentioned someone being alt right and not liking Islam. The alt right does not like Islam for reasons anyone should really empathize with. If he wasn't referring to that thread, then I don't know what he was referring to. I don't think I denied alt left could not be anti-Islam. I did after all bring up Sam Harris and Bill Maher.

[Cindi Mayweather]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

I'm assuming you're referencing to the thread that was made today about the poster whose friend is an alt-right supporter. The alt-right has no sympathetic views of Islam and their argument certainly isn't "look at what islam has caused". The alt-right also supports Trump who literally said that he wants all Muslims in America to be documented and potentially deported. But somehow this is the same equivalent to being hard on Christianity. Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Let's be honest. Most criticisms towards Islam isn't "look at what islam has caused".

Your Mormonism is showing.

Newsflash: Religion isn't a race. I dislike Islam which I consider the most toxic religion on the planet and consider its fundies complete morons (not saying much though, all religious fundies are complete morons). Nope not a racist. I also dislike capitalism and have little respect for its fundies aka libertarians. Nope not a racist either. Both ideologies btw.

 It's stupid accusations like that that are getting spammed in the media and Hollywood the last few years what made people sick of identity politics whining so they stopped taking it seriously altogether. It numbed them so much that they didn't even have a problem with Trump anymore. Congrats, you're part of the problem, say whatever you want about gamergate but many in that community whose majority btw is left and anti-authoritarian, had predicted that kind of backlash.

...

[Optimus]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

I'm assuming you're referencing to the thread that was made today about the poster whose friend is an alt-right supporter. The alt-right has no sympathetic views of Islam and their argument certainly isn't "look at what islam has caused". The alt-right also supports Trump who literally said that he wants all Muslims in America to be documented and potentially deported. But somehow this is the same equivalent to being hard on Christianity. Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Let's be honest. Most criticisms towards Islam isn't "look at what islam has caused".

Your Mormonism is showing.

Newsflash: Religion isn't a race. I dislike Islam which I consider the most toxic religion on the planet and consider its fundies complete morons (not saying much though, all religious fundies are complete morons). Nope not a racist. I also dislike capitalism and have little respect for its fundies aka libertarians. Nope not a racist either. Both ideologies btw.

 It's stupid accusations like that that are getting spammed in the media and Hollywood the last few years what made people sick of identity politics whining so they stopped taking it seriously altogether. It numbed them so much that they didn't even have a problem with Trump anymore. Congrats, you're part of the problem, say whatever you want about gamergate but many in that community whose majority btw is left and anti-authoritarian, had predicted that kind of backlash.

...

I prefer I can't even and wow. If you're gonna copy neogaf on how they're arguing you should do it right.

[Optimus]

When people say Muslims, they mean arab people in general. I've been called muslim countless times while I've been farthest from the fact.

It's kinda like how Jewish means religion and race, it's like that for most people. Liberal or Conservative, people always assume I'm a muslim from how I look or how weird my name sounds to them.

So let me follow the logic here. Bill Maher who has been a long time atheist and critic of religion should not criticize Islam because that makes him racist since some people think that all arabic looking men are Muslims. Following that logic in the 70s it would be racist to criticize communism because people assumed that all Russians are communists.

[helios]

I believe the term is "bigot" or "religiously intolerant"

[Optimus]

When people say Muslims, they mean arab people in general. I've been called muslim countless times while I've been farthest from the fact.

It's kinda like how Jewish means religion and race, it's like that for most people. Liberal or Conservative, people always assume I'm a muslim from how I look or how weird my name sounds to them.

So let me follow the logic here. Bill Maher who has been a long time atheist and critic of religion should not criticize Islam because that makes him racist since some people think that all arabic looking men are Muslims. Following that logic in the 70s it would be racist to criticize communism because people assumed that all Russians are communists.

Where did I say that? Was just adding in my two cents as, you know, the only arab person who regularly posts in this forum.

But OK overly sensitive cunt who feels as if a dumb fucktard getting elected as president validates his views. Keep reaching.

I'm the oversensitive cunt? Tell me who's the one who just imploded because someone dared to argue with him, me or you? And if that wasn't your fucking point what was it? Because you clearly tried to connect religion, which is an ideology, with race and then acted like a complete asshole when I challenged that way of thinking. You can hear some people's bubble bursting from a mile away in this forum.

[etiolate]

It's a loop. People like Maher don't mean Arab when they say Muslim. However, there are people who take Islamic criticism as racism. (like Derp Afleck.) This then reinforces ideas that Muslim = Arab, so ppl like Wraith get called Muslim by default by the sort of person who just hears the noise as noise rather than hear the arguments within.

[Optimus]

You didn't challenge anybody, you went off on your own tangent. I wasn't talking about Bill Maher at all, you're the one who made the assumption that I did.

And what I say is true. I'm not the one connecting a religion to a race but they are clearly connected to most people. That's how people view the term muslim, as an interchangeable word to arab. How is saying that such a farce? Especially when in my experience arabs are assumed as muslim unless proven otherwise.

I don't even see muslim as a negative term, just an incorrect one. Considering how many are christian, jewish, or atheist like myself.

OK, let's assume that you weren't agreeing with Himuro then. So what is your point, does it make you racist to criticize an ideology/religion and the people who follow it, yes or no? If it does how the hell ARE we gonna be able to offer criticism against a shitty ideology? Should we just ignore the problems with is as it continues fucking up society? If it doesn't then I guess with agree with each other.

[Cindi Mayweather]

Because saying "look at what islam has caused" is exactly the same as saying "Round up them musins!"

I'm assuming you're referencing to the thread that was made today about the poster whose friend is an alt-right supporter. The alt-right has no sympathetic views of Islam and their argument certainly isn't "look at what islam has caused". The alt-right also supports Trump who literally said that he wants all Muslims in America to be documented and potentially deported. But somehow this is the same equivalent to being hard on Christianity. Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Let's be honest. Most criticisms towards Islam isn't "look at what islam has caused".

Your Mormonism is showing.

Newsflash: Religion isn't a race. I dislike Islam which I consider the most toxic religion on the planet and consider its fundies complete morons (not saying much though, all religious fundies are complete morons). Nope not a racist. I also dislike capitalism and have little respect for its fundies aka libertarians. Nope not a racist either. Both ideologies btw.

 It's stupid accusations like that that are getting spammed in the media and Hollywood the last few years what made people sick of identity politics whining so they stopped taking it seriously altogether. It numbed them so much that they didn't even have a problem with Trump anymore. Congrats, you're part of the problem, say whatever you want about gamergate but many in that community whose majority btw is left and anti-authoritarian, had predicted that kind of backlash.

...

I prefer I can't even and wow. If you're gonna copy neogaf on how they're arguing you should do it right.

Huh? I don't want want to argue with anyone on this who doesn't recognize when most people mean Muslim they generally mean Arabs. This is common knowledge and I'm not sure why that fact would bother you. It's not worth arguing over if you don't at least agree with that point.

[etiolate]

Protip: Don't mistake Himu's constant hysteria with Wraith.

[agrajag]

Can't we all agree that while not all arabs are muslim and not all muslims are arabs, the vast majority of arabs are muslim?

And can't we all agree that while islamaphobia is real and problematic (and usually overlaps with arabophobia, as shown by ignorant Americans saying things like "I don't trust Obama, he's one of them ay-rabs," which is racist), its root lies in fear of extremist pro-Islamic terrorist organizations that run rampant in the Middle East and archaic (barbaric in many westerner's eyes) customs of the land? Which were in turn highly exacerbated or outright caused by western imperialism?

[Cindi Mayweather]

Protip: Don't mistake Himu's constant hysteria with Wraith.

Constant hysteria? okay

[Cindi Mayweather]

Can't we all agree that while not all arabs are muslim and not all muslims are arabs, the vast majority of arabs are muslim?

And can't we all agree that while islamaphobia is real and problematic (and usually overlaps with arabophobia, as shown by ignorant Americans saying things like "I don't trust Obama, he's one of them ay-rabs," which is racist), its root lies in fear of extremist pro-Islamic terrorist organizations that run rampant in the Middle East and archaic (barbaric in many westerner's eyes) customs of the land? Which were in turn highly exacerbated or outright caused by western imperialism?

Right. I don't understand how we got to this point after Ronito's poor quip on gaffers. I never said all Muslims are Arabs. but generally Arabs are thought to be Muslim. This is exactly what Wrath said.

[Optimus]

You didn't challenge anybody, you went off on your own tangent. I wasn't talking about Bill Maher at all, you're the one who made the assumption that I did.

And what I say is true. I'm not the one connecting a religion to a race but they are clearly connected to most people. That's how people view the term muslim, as an interchangeable word to arab. How is saying that such a farce? Especially when in my experience arabs are assumed as muslim unless proven otherwise.

I don't even see muslim as a negative term, just an incorrect one. Considering how many are christian, jewish, or atheist like myself.

OK, let's assume that you weren't agreeing with Himuro then. So what is your point, does it make you racist to criticize an ideology/religion and the people who follow it, yes or no? If it does how the hell ARE we gonna be able to offer criticism against a shitty ideology? Should we just ignore the problems with is as it continues fucking up society? If it doesn't then I guess with agree with each other.

My point is that yes, muslim to a lot of people just means Arab. What's your point? Honestly, what is it? Muslim and Arab aren't mutually exclusive? Did anyone disagree with that?

I'm not even arguing agains anything, just pointing out that to a lot of people muslim and Arab mean the same thing. Not that it's a bad thing just an incorrect thing, only a bad thing in some contexts.

Generalizing about groups of people based on the way they look/where they were born is a bad thing, yes. That is completely irrelevant to the discussion, though. As you've seen Himuro is trying to piggyback on your comment to support her crazy theory (not exactly hers but anyway) that criticizing Islam is racism.  Your problem is with the morons who assume that you follow a specific ideology because of the way you look not with the people who criticize that ideology.

[Cindi Mayweather]

What! Wrath is basically saying the same thing I initially said. You just have a problem with reading because you're a little contrarian.

Criticizing Islam isn't racism, and I never said it was.

[etiolate]

Can't we all agree that while not all arabs are muslim and not all muslims are arabs, the vast majority of arabs are muslim?

Pretty much. And we can agree that not all Arab Muslims are fundamentalists incompatible with the Western world.

And can't we all agree that while islamaphobia is real and problematic (and usually overlaps with arabophobia, as shown by ignorant Americans saying things like "I don't trust Obama, he's one of them ay-rabs," which is racist), its root lies in fear of extremist pro-Islamic terrorist organizations that run rampant in the Middle East and archaic (barbaric in many westerner's eyes) customs of the land? Which were in turn highly exacerbated or outright caused by western imperialism?

I think there is where things get messy.

Also, I would suggest stop using the word "problematic". It's a weasel word that escapes defining what the problem in particular is so that the speaker can't be held accountable for any arguable point. Just find what the actual problem is and state that. If you can't find an actual problem then it's not problematic.

[Optimus]

What! Wrath is basically saying the same thing I initially said. You just have a problem with reading because you're a little contrarian.

Criticizing Islam isn't racism, and I never said it was.

Furthermore, a lot of "look at what Islam has caused" rhetoric is full of anti-Islamists of the Sam Harris/Bill Maher ilk who excuse racism in the face of being critical of Islam.

Hmmmm....

[Cindi Mayweather]

So you agree that you can't read for shit because I clearly said "a lot" not "all"?

The problem is we don't know what Ronito is even referring to. Is he talking about the thread where dude cuts out his alt right friend for not liking Muslims? I don't know. I can only assume. So I went with that because his post was a shit post.

[agrajag]

You don't know me very well, so I will explain. I ironically co opted the word problematic from GAF. In this case it was useful because, while lacking nuance, it let me convey a sentiment that I think is familiar to us all and shouldn't need multiple paragraphs of explanation. I am not going to sit here and lecture anyone why it's wrong to generalize people based on ethnicity or how its dangerous to buy into nationalist rhetoric. Plus I am lazy.

[etiolate]

You don't know me very well, so I will explain. I ironically co opted the word problematic from GAF. In this case it was useful because, while lacking nuance, it let me convey a sentiment that I think is familiar to us all and shouldn't need multiple paragraphs of explanation. I am not going to sit here and lecture anyone why it's wrong to generalize people based on ethnicity or how its dangerous to buy into nationalist rhetoric. Plus I am lazy.

I did not mean it as an attack. I just think the word should be left in the dust where it belongs. Generally,for the sake of clarity and figuring out what is meant, it's best not to use that term rather than use it. I would even say that the trouble with how people use the word and how I used to use the word is the very assumption that we don't need paragraphs of explanation. More often than realized, we actually do.

[Optimus]

So you agree that you can't read for shit because I clearly said "a lot" not "all"?

The problem is we don't know what Ronito is even referring to. Is he talking about the thread where dude cuts out his alt right friend for not liking Muslims? I don't know. I can only assume. So I went with that because his post was a shit post.

Except for the fact that just after that you talked about "anti-Islamists" as if they're bigots and mentioned Maher who, like many atheists, has always had a problem with Islam and its followers because of what the religion represents not because he doesn't like brown people which has always been clear as day.

[I'm a Puppy!]

So you agree that you can't read for shit because I clearly said "a lot" not "all"?

The problem is we don't know what Ronito is even referring to. Is he talking about the thread where dude cuts out his alt right friend for not liking Muslims? I don't know. I can only assume. So I went with that because his post was a shit post.

Nah, that dude was right. It was the rest of the thread though. I doubt some of those people were actually dealing with alt-righters, probably some people who don't like Islam but aren't like "let's round them all up" there's no point in dealing with racists. Just a lot of them reminded me of when I was growing up and thought that anyone who drank alcohol must have been a raging alcoholic. Seeing a lot of that kind of thinking. Sure there are some racists but everyone? Of course, if could be the painkillers talking too.