Author Topic: US Politics Thread |OT| SAD TRUMP  (Read 2965540 times)

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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67500 on: August 08, 2020, 06:17:54 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?
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Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67501 on: August 08, 2020, 06:19:20 PM »
In the present day you have the phenomenon where prison populations count as people for proportional representation purposes, but people in prison generally do not enjoy the right to vote.

The current administration has been fighting to not count undocumented immigrants, but as you said they're fine counting prisoners who similarly can't vote.

All it takes is a quick glance at which states have high concentrations of each of those populations to figure out why.

VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67502 on: August 08, 2020, 06:24:06 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Well obviously it was a thought experiment from a foreign point of view that, for the sake of the argument, supposes the USA is not a basket case.

But to repeat myself, if would probably be simpler and more impactful to make the customary Presidential election Tuesday an holiday.
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67503 on: August 08, 2020, 06:24:59 PM »
Why would we do that? Working people would vote :lol
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Tripon

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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67505 on: August 08, 2020, 06:38:25 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Well obviously it was a thought experiment from a foreign point of view that, for the sake of the argument, supposes the USA is not a basket case.

But to repeat myself, if would probably be simpler and more impactful to make the customary Presidential election Tuesday an holiday.

Is a passport good enough for voter registration? or do you have to go through the get-id-to-get-id thing to get a state ID
titor

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67506 on: August 08, 2020, 06:39:48 PM »
Sidenote: The last time the VRA was up for renewal was in 2006 when the GOP held the trifecta. It passed the House 390-33 and the Senate 98-0.

Last year the Voting Rights Advancement Act passed the House 228-187 with one Republican vote.

Among other things, I think that's a good example of how important the status quo is in US politics.

Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67507 on: August 08, 2020, 06:44:41 PM »
The UI benefits one isn't even an executive order, it's a memorandum.

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67508 on: August 08, 2020, 06:56:15 PM »
you're a memorandumk
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Kara

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67509 on: August 08, 2020, 06:56:35 PM »
:bolo

Speaking of Fed 10 I saw this when googling it again and it's :delicious

https://thefederalist.com/2019/04/09/no-10-best-federalist-paper-thats-left-hates-much/

Quote
Think of it in this way: we can imagine the elected government of a republic of Manhattan Island with today’s population outlawing the ownership of automobiles by private citizens and rescinding the tax-exempt status of churches.

 :lol

VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67510 on: August 08, 2020, 07:02:07 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Well obviously it was a thought experiment from a foreign point of view that, for the sake of the argument, supposes the USA is not a basket case.

But to repeat myself, if would probably be simpler and more impactful to make the customary Presidential election Tuesday an holiday.

Is a passport good enough for voter registration? or do you have to go through the get-id-to-get-id thing to get a state ID

In France ?

Passports are of equal "value" in justifying your identity as the National ID Card. Those are the two documents accepted as such. I think in some lower stakes situations (not voting though) you may use a driver's licence (Managed by the "Secure ID titles agency") or your Healthcare card (mandatory, universal, and free) since those now have an ID photo (that must follow official guidelines).

Voter registration is mandatory. You're automatically added if you turn 18 or after being naturalized.

If you change residence you need to ask to the town hall to re-assign you at your new address.
To justify registration at your new address you can use : An ID card or a passport OR a tax return, pay slip, ownership title OR a recent utility bill.

Town halls manage the voter rolls but the record is consolidated at the national level (Apparently by the INSEE, the national agency for statistics. In charge of the census too if I'm not mistaken).

When voting, you must present either an ID card or a passport alongside an electoral card (free and automatically mailed) which is stamped after casting the ballot. I'm not even sure the electoral card is mandatory, I was able to do without last time.

All paper ballots. Ballots are pre-printed for all options and at disposal at the station. No write-ins allowed (any added mark on a pre-printed ballot is nullified and discarded).
« Last Edit: August 08, 2020, 07:13:09 PM by VomKriege »
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67511 on: August 08, 2020, 07:10:29 PM »
Voter registration is mandatory. You're automatically added if you turn 18 or after being naturalized.
must be nice
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Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67512 on: August 08, 2020, 07:29:27 PM »
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900516854/in-executive-actions-trump-extends-unemployment-benefits
Quote
"The Treasury Secretary is authorized to delay the deadline for any action required under tax law up to one year," said Rudalevige, in case of a federally declared disaster, and all states are currently operating under one due to the pandemic. "So payroll tax payments could under this provision be delayed. But, not forgiven — those taxes are still owed."
So the tax thing they can just do, at least delay until after the election because of the Pandemic. That's probably why Mnuchin was so sure they could provide relief even if Democrats wouldn't budge.

The unemployment benefits could be legally challenged. It would take some serious guts to block $300 a month for families in need though.
Not sure about Trump's demand for states to throw in another $100 though, that could easily be blocked by both Democrats or Republicans.

Same with the student loans, again a subject that is hard for the Democrats to challenge.
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team filler

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67513 on: August 08, 2020, 07:42:48 PM »
outflanked from the left again  :trumps
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67514 on: August 08, 2020, 07:45:48 PM »
Actually, Trump's executive order makes it even harder for the two sides to come to a deal because it gets rid of most of the common ground. What's left is funding for state governments, the election, and the gap in unemployment benefits. That's one reason some people didn't want him to do it, in addition to losing face.
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Stro

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67515 on: August 08, 2020, 08:08:43 PM »
Coincidentally, Trump looks like he's literally losing his face

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67516 on: August 08, 2020, 08:18:15 PM »
Would a federal national ID actually do anything for presidential elections since they are ran by states, and states don't have to acknowledge the IDs if they don't want to (see sanctuary cities)?

Well obviously it was a thought experiment from a foreign point of view that, for the sake of the argument, supposes the USA is not a basket case.

But to repeat myself, if would probably be simpler and more impactful to make the customary Presidential election Tuesday an holiday.

Is a passport good enough for voter registration? or do you have to go through the get-id-to-get-id thing to get a state ID

In France ?

Passports are of equal "value" in justifying your identity as the National ID Card. Those are the two documents accepted as such. I think in some lower stakes situations (not voting though) you may use a driver's licence (Managed by the "Secure ID titles agency") or your Healthcare card (mandatory, universal, and free) since those now have an ID photo (that must follow official guidelines).

Voter registration is mandatory. You're automatically added if you turn 18 or after being naturalized.

If you change residence you need to ask to the town hall to re-assign you at your new address.
To justify registration at your new address you can use : An ID card or a passport OR a tax return, pay slip, ownership title OR a recent utility bill.

Town halls manage the voter rolls but the record is consolidated at the national level (Apparently by the INSEE, the national agency for statistics. In charge of the census too if I'm not mistaken).

When voting, you must present either an ID card or a passport alongside an electoral card (free and automatically mailed) which is stamped after casting the ballot. I'm not even sure the electoral card is mandatory, I was able to do without last time.

All paper ballots. Ballots are pre-printed for all options and at disposal at the station. No write-ins allowed (any added mark on a pre-printed ballot is nullified and discarded).

No, not france I meant in good ol glory bursting in the sky.
titor

Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67517 on: August 08, 2020, 08:19:29 PM »
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Kara

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67518 on: August 08, 2020, 08:28:47 PM »
https://www.npr.org/2020/08/08/900516854/in-executive-actions-trump-extends-unemployment-benefits
Quote
"The Treasury Secretary is authorized to delay the deadline for any action required under tax law up to one year," said Rudalevige, in case of a federally declared disaster, and all states are currently operating under one due to the pandemic. "So payroll tax payments could under this provision be delayed. But, not forgiven — those taxes are still owed."
So the tax thing they can just do, at least delay until after the election because of the Pandemic.

The part of the Code he is referring to applies to the affected taxpayer and the obligations they are responsible for. In the case of payroll tax collection and transmission the taxpayer is the employer and not the employee. So no, they can't just do it.

Stro

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67519 on: August 08, 2020, 08:58:56 PM »
30 million people out of work, a payroll tax cut will solve everything

:what

Tripon

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67520 on: August 08, 2020, 09:24:05 PM »
Who's the guy who keeps on telling Trump that a payroll tax cut will do anything?


Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67521 on: August 08, 2020, 09:27:34 PM »
Who's the guy who keeps on telling Trump that a payroll tax cut will do anything?



Every GOP congressperson.
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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67523 on: August 08, 2020, 09:56:40 PM »
I'm sorry, yo solo hablo espanol.
titor

benjipwns

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67524 on: August 08, 2020, 10:01:13 PM »
The voter fraud worries are just more cult of the voting process. The costs of altering an election through mass fake voting compared to simply altering the results* are completely out of whack and yet we're obsessed with the voting ritual itself like the rest of the system doesn't exist. This leads to absurd laws like it being illegal to take and share a picture of your ballot for whatever insane reason.

About the only valid restriction on voting is the residency requirement because we have representative government by geographical location. And that can simply be sworn to or via the voter card I suppose if we really need a document of some kind.

*For example, as Papa Lukashenko had to resort to when the people voted for him simply too much so he ordered it only be reported as 86%.

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67525 on: August 08, 2020, 10:47:17 PM »
semis cross posting, but I aint copying shit.

navarro on the biden campaign is such a stupid fucking move.
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Mandark

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67526 on: August 08, 2020, 10:52:16 PM »
The voter fraud worries are just more cult of the voting process. The costs of altering an election through mass fake voting compared to simply altering the results* are completely out of whack and yet we're obsessed with the voting ritual itself like the rest of the system doesn't exist.

okay but "voter fraud" is overwhelmingly invoked as a danger by one party and its media ecosystem for p obvious reasons

Kara

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67528 on: August 09, 2020, 01:25:24 AM »


 :biden
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67529 on: August 09, 2020, 01:55:11 AM »
Quote
TikTok to Sue Trump Administration as Soon as Tuesday

:lucas
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EchoRin

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67531 on: August 09, 2020, 06:14:37 AM »
Can someone just tell Joe to stop putting his hands on people? Handshakes = good. Everything else = leave it be. Maybe in some other countries/cultures contact and personal space is perceived differently (which is fine), but this keeps making you look not so great within social norms of the US of A.

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67532 on: August 09, 2020, 06:34:20 AM »
Remember that time Al Franken was killed in that photo op session?
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VomKriege

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67533 on: August 09, 2020, 06:35:19 AM »
The voter fraud worries are just more cult of the voting process. The costs of altering an election through mass fake voting compared to simply altering the results* are completely out of whack and yet we're obsessed with the voting ritual itself like the rest of the system doesn't exist. This leads to absurd laws like it being illegal to take and share a picture of your ballot for whatever insane reason.

About the only valid restriction on voting is the residency requirement because we have representative government by geographical location. And that can simply be sworn to or via the voter card I suppose if we really need a document of some kind.

*For example, as Papa Lukashenko had to resort to when the people voted for him simply too much so he ordered it only be reported as 86%.

Good old ballot stuffing or bags of votes being conveniently lost is still a thing though. There's a lot of reasons why you'd still want to use it in conjunction with just putting the thumb on the reporting scale.
:trumps

I think it's a bit much to label it purely fetishistic cultish.
Definitely overblown in the current US discourse though.
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Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67534 on: August 09, 2020, 06:36:08 AM »
Can someone just tell Joe to stop putting his hands on people? Handshakes = good. Everything else = leave it be. Maybe in some other countries/cultures contact and personal space is perceived differently (which is fine), but this keeps making you look not so great within social norms of the US of A.
:biden Come on man
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BIONIC

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67535 on: August 09, 2020, 06:39:05 AM »
Remember that time Al Franken was killed in that photo op session?

RIP Al Franken and the cast of Friends  :(
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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67536 on: August 09, 2020, 08:43:28 AM »
Anyone other than Rice would be political theatre, and as much as biden is hands on in that arena, his handlers aren't stupid.
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Stro

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67537 on: August 09, 2020, 11:55:43 AM »
Do you think Trump even knows that cutting the payroll tax is effectively trying to cut Medicaid and SSN, or was he just convinced it'd a great idea by scumbags that actually know what it will do

BrokenVerses

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67538 on: August 09, 2020, 12:04:47 PM »
I thought Trump was resentful that Obama got a payroll tax cut in the stimulus...

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67539 on: August 09, 2020, 12:07:24 PM »
Do you think Trump even knows that cutting the payroll tax is effectively trying to cut Medicaid and SSN, or was he just convinced it'd a great idea by scumbags that actually know what it will do

This guy



Doesn't even know what a payroll tax is.
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benjipwns

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67540 on: August 09, 2020, 01:27:52 PM »
Good old ballot stuffing or bags of votes being conveniently lost is still a thing though. There's a lot of reasons why you'd still want to use it in conjunction with just putting the thumb on the reporting scale.
That's just altering the results and providing paperwork to justify it. It's not trying to do anything through the legitimate voting process.

The Republican/Trumpist/etc. fear is that Democrats will swarm the ballot box with millions of Mexicans and other illegal immigrants (predominantly Islamic) to vote Marxist, well, not anymore, now it's just that they'll mail in billions more ballots than there are registered voters. It always assumes someone will try to cheat the fairly airtight process, not do anything after the fact to alter the results which are somehow inherently sacrosanct. Someone voting without an ID or whatever "loophole" would lead to the polls being rushed by trillions of these voters is only a problem if they're doing it in another persons name denying that person a chance to cast their ballot. If they're not and merely adding a few votes to the total who gives a fuck. Especially if they're a resident.

Kara

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67541 on: August 09, 2020, 01:28:38 PM »
Do you think Trump even knows that cutting the payroll tax is effectively trying to cut Medicaid and SSN, or was he just convinced it'd a great idea by scumbags that actually know what it will do

I think that's a fringe benefit to him. Whatever the primary motivation is I don't know, though.

There was a Wall Street Journal editorial recently touting it, but that was after he was pushing for it iirc, and I very much doubt he reads the Wall Street Journal, even its benighted editorial page.

shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67542 on: August 09, 2020, 01:31:17 PM »
He thinks lowering taxes will stimulate the economy. He already lowered income tax so this is the next best option. That's it.

There was a Wall Street Journal editorial recently touting it, but that was after he was pushing for it iirc, and I very much doubt he reads the Wall Street Journal, even its benighted editorial page.
Only person I know who reads the editorial page of WSJ is Jack Remington :lol
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Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67543 on: August 09, 2020, 02:03:08 PM »
How else are you gonna find out about the next iphone advances?
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Tripon

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« Last Edit: August 09, 2020, 02:38:57 PM by Tripon »

shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67545 on: August 09, 2020, 02:53:59 PM »
The party is a coalition and its machine is comprised of an insular cohort; I don't think even Jack would disagree with that
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Lonewulfeus

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67546 on: August 09, 2020, 03:00:44 PM »
Yes he would, and so would his 1200 friends.

shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67547 on: August 09, 2020, 04:09:00 PM »
motherfuckers in florida banning online-only education :lol eat shit and die
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Cindi Mayweather

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67548 on: August 09, 2020, 04:11:40 PM »
:lol the south
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Tripon

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67549 on: August 09, 2020, 04:29:07 PM »
Florida's looking directly at what's happening in Georgia and Mississippi's schools and saying I want that and more.

Stro

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67550 on: August 09, 2020, 04:45:07 PM »
DeSantis is just the perfect amount of incompetent boob and Sith lord evil that I expect him to be the GOP's candidate in 2024

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67551 on: August 09, 2020, 04:46:09 PM »
:lol the south
Florida's is normally an exception from the South, as such our leader is more of a sociopath than an ignorant BelieverR.

Florida is south as far as I'm concerned. I don't really care what people say. That place is southern as fuck. If it doesn't count for the south, it should. It's cut from the same cloth.
weed

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67552 on: August 09, 2020, 05:44:15 PM »
:lol
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shosta

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67553 on: August 09, 2020, 05:45:16 PM »
We should do it
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Nintex

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67554 on: August 09, 2020, 05:48:53 PM »
Quote
"I started laughing," she said. "He wasn't laughing, so he was totally serious."

 :trumps

Mt. TRUMPMORE  :rejoice
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james

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67555 on: August 09, 2020, 06:10:40 PM »
You know how in Pilotwings 64 you can shoot missiles into Mt Rushmore?

I like that
:O

Cauliflower Of Love

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67556 on: August 09, 2020, 06:23:43 PM »
that skydiving in pilotwings was so fucking annoying
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Stro

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67557 on: August 09, 2020, 06:31:35 PM »
Blow up Mt. Trumpmore to reveal he was actually Wario all along

tiesto

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67558 on: August 09, 2020, 07:50:28 PM »
:lol the south
Florida's is normally an exception from the South, as such our leader is more of a sociopath than an ignorant BelieverR.

Florida is south as far as I'm concerned. I don't really care what people say. That place is southern as fuck. If it doesn't count for the south, it should. It's cut from the same cloth.

Florida is the place where the further north you are, the more "south" it feels....
^_^

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Re: US Politics Thread |OT| RIP Cain Train #pizzagate
« Reply #67559 on: August 09, 2020, 07:54:11 PM »
florida and texas are both southern but not the south  :ufup
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