The Intellectual Wank Dad [ ot ] jordan peterson Jordan Peterson JORDAN PETERSON

[Nola]

A relationship to what though? I am saying, in my view, we have more men going past the age of 30 than we've ever had. We've had major shifts in gender roles and life options recently as well. So my worry/theory is we have more available young men than we have roles for young men.

And I took issue with the assertion that the societal issues you listed(suicide, murder, homelessness, incarceration) are directly intertwined and serve as evidence to your thesis.

Because one, at least half of those statistics are relatively stable or are going in the other direction, and more importantly, two, there is no real evidence of some absurdist connection between male fallout post-feminism and social upbringing in a society and increasing levels of those statistics.

No. You're wrong.

Suicide rates are rising. Incarceration rates quadrupled in the past four decades.

Wrong about what?

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/66/wr/mm6610a7.htm

Suicide rates have been relatively stable, ebbing and flowing over the last several decades. Murder rates have fallen, homelessness is not easy to track conclusively but there are a lot of factors we know drive the trends, I haven't seen evidence that feminism is one of them. Incarceration rates are certainly up, but what you are still falling to provide is any evidence of a connection between what you are asserting and the numbers. Again, I've heard a lot of convincing evidence on the power of budgetary constraints, mandatory sentencing, for-profit prisons, and broken-windows policing on incarceration, not a whole lot on feminism being a primary driver of incarceration rates.

[Stro]

The women are stealing our jerbs. Time to build the Woman Wall (WW).

[curly]

[etiolate]

Now there's a pick up line I haven't tried.

[Oblivion]

Okay, I gotta hear this.

How is feminism responsible for the rise in incarceration rates over the past 40 years?

[Mandark]

I've seen people propose a narrative that roughly goes like this: the feminist movement, deindustrialization, and demilitarization (particularly the end of the draft) combined to have the unintended consequence of depriving young men traditionally masculine jobs or roles, which used to be more rewarding in both money and social status. In response more and more of them acted out resulting in crime, suicide, etc. Prison soaking up the population of fighty boys who used to serve in the army, that sort of thing.

[Stro]

Okay, I gotta hear this.

How is feminism responsible for the rise in incarceration rates over the past 40 years?

It's quite simple. Men, having been kicked out of the STEM field (one of the few avenues for a man to make something of himself and keep his shoulders high) by women, are forced into criminality to survive, leading to men being incarcerated while women rule the world.

[etiolate]

Okay, I gotta hear this.

How is feminism responsible for the rise in incarceration rates over the past 40 years?

Nobody said that.

[Oblivion]

Okay, I gotta hear this.

How is feminism responsible for the rise in incarceration rates over the past 40 years?

Nobody said that.

You said this dude:

As well, male fallout in society has consequences. We see that in the data on suicides, murder, homelessness and prison populations.

What is the cause of this male fallout?

[naff]

make specious arguments, then complain about people shitting up your thread 

[Stro]

Okay, I gotta hear this.

How is feminism responsible for the rise in incarceration rates over the past 40 years?

Nobody said that.

You said this dude:

As well, male fallout in society has consequences. We see that in the data on suicides, murder, homelessness and prison populations.

What is the cause of this male fallout?

Male pattern baldness 

[etiolate]

Okay, I gotta hear this.

How is feminism responsible for the rise in incarceration rates over the past 40 years?

Nobody said that.

You said this dude:

As well, male fallout in society has consequences. We see that in the data on suicides, murder, homelessness and prison populations.

What is the cause of this male fallout?

I already explained this.If you can't figure it out then you fail.

If you want me to teach you how to read and think then I'll set up a paypal and give you a rate.

[team filler]

set up an Lpal and watch them line up

[seagrams hotsauce]

a dialogue with etoilet, condensed
etoilet: inarticulately expresses a dumb point
curious bystander: that sounds dumb, could you clarify
etoilet: I ALREADY EXPLAINED THIS YOU CAN'T READ PLS STOP MY FRAGILE EGO CAN'T HANDLE MINOR CONFRONTATION REEEEEE
repeat

[Mandark]

My darkest fear is that we built society for centuries on the idea that many men would die before hitting age 30. That war, hard labor and risk would ween out the male population so that the need of the people never outweighed society's ability to meet the demand. However, many things have changed. Less men go to war. Less men die young from hard labor. Health has improved. Disease control has improved. We simply have more living men now and society wasn't built to handle their need. So they end up in prison or on the streets or they take their own life in a variety of vices and methods.

Except women had a lot higher mortality back then too.

[Oblivion]

Okay, I gotta hear this.

How is feminism responsible for the rise in incarceration rates over the past 40 years?

Nobody said that.

You said this dude:

As well, male fallout in society has consequences. We see that in the data on suicides, murder, homelessness and prison populations.

What is the cause of this male fallout?

I already explained this.If you can't figure it out then you fail.

If you want me to teach you how to read and think then I'll set up a paypal and give you a rate.

Sigh. Let us review all the relevant posts you've made thus far:

And then you get really terrible stinkpieces that talk about how terrible men are and how it must be contained or corrected. It's as if parts of society, given more men than ever before, treats these extra lives as a contagion.

It's not that the stinkpieces hurt anyone's feelings, but that they reveal a public ignoring the question or rejecting the outcome. That's why I compared the response to treating the issue as a contagion.

Who's writing these "stinkpieces" that are shitting on men? Is it the MRA crowd? Pretty sure it's not them.

We've had major shifts in gender roles and life options recently as well.

Who is responsible for these major shifts in gender roles?

That's naive. Sorry. I have been out of the bubble plenty. And the bubble has influence o'plenty.  If the bubble is academia then that means young people are being taught what is thought in the bubble. That's the future. It is dumb to think anything that is taught is designed to be contained in the classroom and not spread.

And what are these bad ideas taught in the academia bubble that will spread outside of it? Are they pro-male ideas?

I gave you a real response and you're dragging out the tired old and refuted "its only in small places" reply. There is a fight to put more women in STEM and there are hiring practices that are arguing for not hiring more men. When I say let's not attack the few avenues men succeed, that is what I am talking about.

Who is leading this fight to put women in STEM and changing hiring practices to focus more on women?

 Incarceration rates quadrupled in the past four decades.

Now this seems like an innocent statement on the surface. But why are you going back only four decades? Could it possibly be because that's when a certain movement really started taking off?


(In case it needs to be spelled out, every question I've asked thus far in this post has been rhetorical)

Now, I'm willing to concede that you did seem to be pointing to additional problems separate from feminism, but don't fucking try to pretend that feminism wasn't one of the major things you were tying to shit like incarceration rates and such.

[etiolate]

Yes, feminism is involved, as is a birth control pill or a delayed marriage cycle and longer lives. Why are you freaking out over feminism?

[Rufus]

He's not.

[hungrynoob]

Who is leading this fight to put women in STEM and changing hiring practices to focus more on women?

http://news.cornell.edu/stories/2015/04/women-preferred-21-over-men-stem-faculty-positions

The result of favouring women 2:1: https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2018/02/the-more-gender-equality-the-fewer-women-in-stem/553592/

and I quote "The upshot of this research is neither especially feminist nor especially sad: It’s not that gender equality discourages girls from pursuing science. It’s that it allows them not to if they’re not interested."

[Stro]

Why are you freaking out over him freaking out? Jeez, calm down.

[Nola]

Yes, feminism is involved, as is a birth control pill or a delayed marriage cycle and longer lives. Why are you freaking out over feminism?

Until you can provide concrete empirical evidence that shows heavy direct causation on the stats you asserted are caused by feminism, that assertion is not substantiated

You have spent far too much time in the Peterson world of shifty non-falsifiable arguments that you have lost what makes Peterson often work and avoid exposure, which is avoiding those sorts of bold assertions that can be empirically weighed and measured. Like inferring homelessness, suicide, murder, incarceration, and feminism have a strong connection. If you don't have evidence to support it, you don't have credible grounds to claim it.

[etiolate]

So many of you don't belong in this thread.

[Stro]

You are such a stupid cunt

[etiolate]

Here's the deal. All of you are on time out for 2 days. You just got too damned stupid.

In those two days, you can figure out what the difference is between a question and a fear is versus what an absolute proclamation is.

And then you can figure out why you failed to see that and why it was feminism that you sperged on. I'll give you a tip: mental conditioning. If you want to participate in this thread then you need control over your own mind. When you freaked out over the faintest idea of feminism then you revealed you lack control over your own thoughts and behavior.

In two days, I'll open the thread again. I expect you'll all be the same fucking idiot you are now. However, maybe some time dealing with yourself will actually help.

[etiolate]

Haven't watched this yet, but probably will tomorrow morning or tonight. Not sure who the other guy is but apparently he does a defense of identity politics at the end? Curious.



Happy Easter

[Stro]

You are still such a stupid cunt

[team filler]

 

[team filler]

[warcock]

Okay, I gotta hear this.

How is feminism responsible for the rise in incarceration rates over the past 40 years?

It's quite simple. Men, having been kicked out of the STEM field (one of the few avenues for a man to make something of himself and keep his shoulders high) by women, are forced into criminality to survive, leading to men being incarcerated while women rule the world.

Guys are being kicked out of S. Anecdotaly speaking TEM are still sausage parties. I think peterson is afraid of all the hairy cunts gunning for his jobs.

[hungrynoob]

because women dont want to do it, i addressed that a few posts back

[etiolate]

Haven't watched this yet, but probably will tomorrow morning or tonight. Not sure who the other guy is but apparently he does a defense of identity politics at the end? Curious.



Happy Easter

Having watched this now, I'd skip to the 45 minute mark if you already know Bret's story. There's a good discussion of the redefining of the word white supremacy and how the strategy of word manipulation works.

[benjipwns]

Not sure who the other guy is

Mickey Kaus' "radical centrist" anti-atheism half!

[etiolate]

From the same videoblog channel, John McWhorter and Grenn Loury discuss the backlash to Amy Wax, racial performance differences, racial quotas, affirmative action and their impact.

[Momo]

.. B-benji 

[etiolate]

Can you possibly doxx... the doxx master?

[Mandark]

My darkest fear is that we built society for centuries on the idea that many men would die before hitting age 30. That war, hard labor and risk would ween out the male population so that the need of the people never outweighed society's ability to meet the demand. However, many things have changed. Less men go to war. Less men die young from hard labor. Health has improved. Disease control has improved. We simply have more living men now and society wasn't built to handle their need. So they end up in prison or on the streets or they take their own life in a variety of vices and methods.

To get back to this, the demographics just don't bear this out. The biggest driver of early mortality was disease, not violent deaths, and men aren't a significantly bigger chunk of the American population than they used to be.

[Leadbelly]

I guess this fits...

[benjipwns]

The postmodernists purge another inconvenient truth teller:
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/kevin-williamson-firing-by-the-atlantic-cowardly/

The Atlantic has caved to the intolerant mob and fired Kevin Williamson, and in so doing has contributed to a slanderous fiction — that Kevin is so beyond the pale that he has no place at one of the nation’s premiere mainstream publications. His millions of words, his countless interviews, and his personal character were reduced to nothing — inconsequential in the face of deleted tweets and a five-minute podcast dialogue.

Kevin is independent. He’s provocative. Sure, he can troll a little bit, and — no — I don’t agree with everything he says. I’m a moderate, you see. If abortion is ever criminalized in this nation, I think only the abortionist (and not the mother) should face murder charges for poisoning, crushing, or dismembering a living child. So we might differ about the laws in hypothetical-future-America.

But in this America, the one we live in now, Kevin is one of our most interesting and talented voices. Like every single interesting and talented person I know, he can provoke. But so what? Aren’t we adults? Can’t we handle disagreement? Apparently not.

I’ve spent my entire adult life in an academic and media environment that put a premium on shocking the conservative conscience. Advocate for the most barbaric abortion practices? Fine. Celebrate an artist who dips a crucifix in urine? Cool. Decry 9/11 first responders as “not human” because of white supremacy? Intriguing. But the marketplace of ideas isn’t for the faint of heart, and good conservatives learn to simultaneously defend the culture of free speech while also fighting hard to build a culture of virtue and respect.

Look, I know it’s easy for some to dismiss Kevin’s termination as mere inside-baseball media drama. But it’s more than that. It’s a declaration by one of America’s most powerful media entities that it can’t even coexist with a man like Kevin. If he wants to write, he should run along to his conservative home. His new colleagues simply couldn’t abide his presence.

After Kevin was fired, Guardian columnist Jessica Valenti tweeted that she was “very relieved for the women” who work at The Atlantic. Why? What was Kevin going to do to them? Write things that made them angry? God forbid! His ideas might hurt? Have mercy!

And so it goes, the steady, inexorable division of America into the tolerable and the intolerable — with the range of tolerable people narrowing ever-so-rapidly. There’s no grace in this brave new world. There’s no charity. It’s not enough to disagree. Now we must ruin. Now we must humiliate. Saying “you’re wrong” is no longer enough. The argument isn’t sufficient.

[Oblivion]

So much for the tolerant free market.

[benjipwns]

JP once again puts it all on the line against journalisms toughest interviewer

[Momo]

who's the person carl of akkad is responding to?

[hungrynoob]

Tbf I would rather be a radical leftist than a nihilistic atheist.

[etiolate]

who's the person carl of akkad is responding to?

According to the YT comments, he's responding to Kevin Logan


who that is I have no idea

Part of the whole Youtuber world is  constant hot take response videos to each other.

[Stro]

The beard/dyed slicked back hair is not a good look for JP. It makes him look decidedly even less friendly and more depressed.

[Nintex]

The beard/dyed slicked back hair is not a good look for JP. It makes him look decidedly even less friendly and more depressed.

He now looks like a proper Bond Villain.

The look suits him.

[shosta]

Et: given your background, I think you'll like this.
With Stories Like These, Who Needs Talent? Part II: English as a Dead Language

The death of poetry as an active, dynamic element in literary culture likely has a great deal to do with various international developments in mass education since the Second World War. It is hard to pinpoint when the traditional canon of English poetry began to disintegrate in educational institutions; though an English literature student who earned a BA between 2000 and 2004 likely has more in common with a 1950-1954 English BA than a 2010-2014 or 2014-2018 BA in English, certainly in terms of the curriculum and range of texts studied as part of the degree course.

Students of English in schools and universities alike are rarely introduced to any coherent or stable body of literary works. Nor are they often taught the fundamental features of verse (metre, rhythm, form) that would enable poems easily to be committed to memory. Critical precepts, interpretative methods, and social or political questions now drive the teaching of English literature; these new focuses come at the expense of traditional conceptions of literary instruction. The teaching of literature naturally has an effect on what is written in a society: you cannot aspire to be (say) your generation’s Keats when nobody in your generation has read any Keats, or knows who he was. Or you can aspire thus, if you are prepared to yell alone in the dark.

Ashbery, O’Hara, and Prynne are anti-traditional poets. You do not need to know anything about literature, history, philosophy, or art to grasp what is most important in their work; you do not need to have mastered foreign languages, or even have a secure grasp of English. All you need is a good dictionary, for Ashbery’s and Prynne’s instances of rare vocabulary, and Wikipedia and YouTube for O’Hara’s references to obsolete brand names and forgotten camp icons. Otherwise, you learn how to read these poets as you go along. Their work has attracted the attention of poetry critics and scholars such as Helen Vendler (Harvard) and Marjorie Perloff (Stanford), who have a vested interest in ensuring that various Modernist and Postmodernist strains in poetry survive; without writers like these, their entire academic careers become obsolete. They have spent decades promoting this sort of work, because their own reputations have been painstakingly built on coming up with plausible-seeming strategies for reading this sort of thing and enjoying it.

It is now possible to have a distinguished career as a professional poet, and win literary prizes, subsidies from the state, well-endowed fellowships, secure teaching posts, and all-expenses-paid residencies abroad at institutions like the American Academy at Rome and American Academy in Berlin, all without having more than a handful of colleagues and students as your readers. None of what is produced is necessarily ‘poetry’ in any traditional sense of the term. But as long as the system carries on paying poets for their activities, with no complaints save from bitter would-be poets who aren’t part of the institutional system, who cares?

[jakefromstatefarm]

Won’t somebody please think of the canon? 

[curly]

lmao nobody is trying to read iambic pentameter in 2018

the stuff that gets popular today flaunts traditional rules for verse too, it's just not as impenetrably dense as academic poetry

[shosta]

I like Rupi Kaur

[curly]

[shosta]

real story, there was a girl who was interested in me, and I gave her an anthology of Sylvia Plath poems for her birthday, and we straight up just stopped talking

maybe the canon would have worked better???

[Crash Dummy]

very old but i've only just got around to reading the last psychiatrist, just working my way through and at times i have no idea what has been said or referenced but entertaining enough to stick with it https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/

[Oblivion]

real story, there was a girl who was interested in me, and I gave her an anthology of Sylvia Plath poems for her birthday, and we straight up just stopped talking

newsfeed

[benjipwns]

beard is going well as he's filled in, but i agree with the slicked hair comment, needs a different style, unless he goes for a total Zod thing

The idea of the death and resurrection has a psychological meaning, in addition to its metaphysical and religious significance. It can be thought of as part of the structure of narrative that sits at the basis of our culture. It includes elements of sacrifice (associated with delay of gratification and the discovery of the future) and psychological transformation (as movement forward in life often requires the death of something old and the birth of something new).

This five-part commentary is an attempt to explain such ideas in detail so that they can be understood, as well as “believed.” 

ilkerbasan
2 days ago
Nietsche announced God is dead.
Dr. Peterson announced God is resurrected.

meusisto
2 days ago
I was agnostic. Deeply considering Christianity (Catholicism/Orthodoxy) now.

Luciano Latouche
2 days ago
Jordan Peterson's attitude has put the new "atheists" (here I'm not talking about unbelievers but people who despise religion in all its aspects and have made it their mission to destroy it) to shame. JP's approach to religion and respect for complex ideas are to be celebrated. No wonder why he's way more respected than all those proponents of anti-theistic nonsense.

[benjipwns]

hey! he made BIG THINK! time for them to step up and be the middle man between JP and SLAVOJ ZIZEK to settle reality forever

[HardcoreRetro]

So... Jordan Peterson is pretty much a self-help guru for the alt-right?

Did the dude just confuse himself in that video? More like Big Stink.

[hungrynoob]

So... Jordan Peterson is pretty much a self-help guru for the alt-right?

lmfao

[Oblivion]

So... Jordan Peterson is pretty much a self-help guru for the alt-right?

lmfao

Right? The man clearly appeals to people from all sides of the political spectrum.

Here's a list of every prominent person on the Left that likes him:

[Mandark]

I wouldn't say the alt-right (if we keep that definition pretty narrow), but his stans are generally MRAdjacent.

[Oblivion]

Isn't the only difference between the alt-right and regular right that the former also happens to like anime?