Author Topic: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2  (Read 5185 times)

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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #60 on: June 19, 2019, 10:05:28 AM »
I don't mean to be glib, but that's video games, no? Choice-heavy RPGs, anyway. The cruelty which incurs humanity losses in the game is not much different to what a psychopath in Fallout might do, the skin is just different. (And you're not directly responsible for any deaths in Skyline Apartments, actually. Not unless you send the producer to Pisha or kill him yourself.)
The only real confrontation with the change you've gone through is your Ghoul and a random woman in LA, who recognizes you from your former life. She acts completely normal, but you're forced to keep the Masquerade up somehow. Both are side content and missable, I believe. The ghoul definitely, the woman I'm not sure.

The rest is stealth or agressive, paragon or renegade type stuff.

I mean, like I say, YMMV, but Bloodlines doesn't really give throw you much of a bone in terms of 'Paragon' choices, and ultimately the 'good' options you have open are 'unwitting pawn' rather than any kind of heroism.

I don't really have anything to add other than Dishonored 2 was very good and I don't remember there being anything overly woke in it.

it really was, and the endings system was pretty good and felt like you had a bit more impact on things than just the binary 'did you fuck up or not?' of the first

Rufus

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #61 on: June 19, 2019, 10:43:13 AM »
I mean, like I say, YMMV, but Bloodlines doesn't really give throw you much of a bone in terms of 'Paragon' choices, and ultimately the 'good' options you have open are 'unwitting pawn' rather than any kind of heroism.
Yes. My point is, the same is true for games with an organized crime theme or a post-apocalyptic setting. Loss of humanity is implicit, but unless you're confronted with it it's not a strong theme, because in video games,  combat/violence is an important pillar. (Which is why the "Nathan Drake's a mass murderer" and "Gordon Freeman is a mute psychopath" takes are mostly only good for jokes.)
 
I haven't played Vampyr, but from everything I've seen, that game's story revolves around your struggle to stay human. VtmB is, as you say, a power struggle where you're playing the unwitting pawn in other people's schemes and that also happens to be set in the World of Darkness universe.

From that perspective, I'm not worried in the least, because it's gonna be a video game.

The sequel might lean into it more, for all we know. A recurring human character who reacts to your choices would be good. Imagine if GrŁnfeld Bach were more than a caricature of a zealous hunter and acknowledged your attempt to stay human. :larry

Rufus

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #62 on: June 19, 2019, 11:11:35 AM »
Speaking of Bach. My main worry is that the game's going to be too self-serious. It doesn't look like it would have  a GrŁnfeld Bach. :-\
That's probably why the Source facial animations hold up so well, too. They're as rough as the characters are zany. VtmB meanwhile sculpted more realistic faces, but relatively expressionless faces.

How do Brian Mitsoda's fingerless gloves figure into this? :doge

Now I'm kinda bummed. GreatSageEqualOfHeaven, this is your fault.

thisismyusername

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #63 on: June 19, 2019, 11:24:06 AM »
I don't really have anything to add other than Dishonored 2 was very good and I don't remember there being anything overly woke in it.

The DLC is what has edgelords up in arms.

toku

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #64 on: June 19, 2019, 11:24:08 AM »
I think humor will be there. We get a little bit of that in the demo from the dancefloor stuff and the news bulletin you can overhear. It's still early brehs calm down. Game gonna be good.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #65 on: June 19, 2019, 11:29:06 AM »
I still haven't received an adequate answer as to how the original Bloodlines is a male power fantasy?
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GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #66 on: June 19, 2019, 11:33:00 AM »
Now I'm kinda bummed. GreatSageEqualOfHeaven, this is your fault.

I mean... a vampire themed more dialoguey / questy dishonored is probably gonna be a pretty good game, and if they'd called it VtM:Legacies or some shit I'd have my expectations set accordingly.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #67 on: June 19, 2019, 11:38:49 AM »

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #68 on: June 19, 2019, 12:14:03 PM »
I still haven't received an adequate answer as to how the original Bloodlines is a male power fantasy?

https://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2019/03/15/vampire-the-masquerade-bloodlines-accidentally-gave-me-a-power-fantasy/

This shows why often vampire stories can be male power fantasy, but not VTMB in particular, a game where you can play male or female and influence male or female to your liking.

That said, I get the need to be wary of it popping up in a vampire story, but I don't think VTMB constitutes. Then again it's been forever since I played it.
weed

toku

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #69 on: September 05, 2019, 06:01:28 PM »

Great Rumbler

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #70 on: September 05, 2019, 07:38:07 PM »
It's crazy that we're getting this and Cyberpunk within about a month of each other.
dog

Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #71 on: September 05, 2019, 11:30:56 PM »
I hope this'll be good, but outside of the good faith built by the predecessor, i've seen nothing interesting or promising out of what shown so far.
The dubious shit surrounding the game (you were talking about last page) is just cherry on top, but it's the footage that looks incredibly mediocre.

Maybe edgy Vampires just aren't as fun anymore, without the stupid innocence of the early 2000s, or maybe they just weren't able to show the actually good parts yet, but if it wasn't for the past game, i wouldn't even keep this in my radar, at this point.

toku

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #72 on: September 05, 2019, 11:41:54 PM »
I mean what is there to show really? The original didn't really have the most exciting gameplay either. It was just a rich role playing experience and that comes 100% down to player choice and agency. It's the same thing with Cyberpunk and I've heard similar remarks about it.

Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #73 on: September 06, 2019, 12:11:01 AM »
I mean what is there to show really? The original didn't really have the most exciting gameplay either. It was just a rich role playing experience and that comes 100% down to player choice and agency. It's the same thing with Cyberpunk and I've heard similar remarks about it.
CP2077 has insane production values on its side, on top of Witcher 3 being relatively recent.
The original Bloodlines also was very impressive (bugs aside) when it came out, being the first game running on Source; aside from that i agree the writing and general vibes are gonna be the meat and potatoes.

Problem with that is what i said: Vampires were cool 15 years ago, when Matrix was cool, i dunno how that would work now, without doing it ironically (which would be shit).
Writing shown so far was pretty straight forward videogame writing, so that's also hard to judge.

thisismyusername

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #74 on: September 06, 2019, 12:27:03 AM »
Vampire's are never out of style, Choomba. Just like (Cyber)punk is never dead.

I'm sorry you aren't feeling the vampires, though.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Admittedly, I'm not super into World of Darkness' take on vampires. Like, I like the idea of the Camarilla, but I don't like how they executed it.
[close]

Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #75 on: September 06, 2019, 12:32:40 AM »
Vampires nowadays need to go through so many passes to not come off as cheesy, that they barely count as vampires.

Leather jackets and sun glasses just aren't all that cool no more.  8)

thisismyusername

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #76 on: September 06, 2019, 12:35:55 AM »
Leather Jackets?

:gurl



spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm not for the Annie Rice Victorian either, but...
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Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #77 on: September 06, 2019, 01:33:59 AM »
Now wait a minute, we're talking modern vampires.
Of course old-timey vampires never go out of style.  :doge

Count Olak > Spike & Angel.

kingv

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #78 on: September 06, 2019, 08:03:28 AM »
Have they showed off how they are going to the glittering skin effect when your PC is in the sun yet?

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #79 on: September 06, 2019, 08:06:46 AM »
I mean what is there to show really? The original didn't really have the most exciting gameplay either. It was just a rich role playing experience and that comes 100% down to player choice and agency. It's the same thing with Cyberpunk and I've heard similar remarks about it.
CP2077 has insane production values on its side, on top of Witcher 3 being relatively recent.
The original Bloodlines also was very impressive (bugs aside) when it came out, being the first game running on Source; aside from that i agree the writing and general vibes are gonna be the meat and potatoes.

Problem with that is what i said: Vampires were cool 15 years ago, when Matrix was cool, i dunno how that would work now, without doing it ironically (which would be shit).
Writing shown so far was pretty straight forward videogame writing, so that's also hard to judge.

No toku is right.

Bloodlines isnít a gameplay wrpg. Itís a story wrpg. The gameplay, combat;etc were middling in Bloodlines. Itís all about choice and fucking around a sandbox made of those story/quest decisions.
weed

Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #80 on: September 06, 2019, 02:35:26 PM »
I mean what is there to show really? The original didn't really have the most exciting gameplay either. It was just a rich role playing experience and that comes 100% down to player choice and agency. It's the same thing with Cyberpunk and I've heard similar remarks about it.
CP2077 has insane production values on its side, on top of Witcher 3 being relatively recent.
The original Bloodlines also was very impressive (bugs aside) when it came out, being the first game running on Source; aside from that i agree the writing and general vibes are gonna be the meat and potatoes.

Problem with that is what i said: Vampires were cool 15 years ago, when Matrix was cool, i dunno how that would work now, without doing it ironically (which would be shit).
Writing shown so far was pretty straight forward videogame writing, so that's also hard to judge.

No toku is right.

Bloodlines isnít a gameplay wrpg. Itís a story wrpg. The gameplay, combat;etc were middling in Bloodlines. Itís all about choice and fucking around a sandbox made of those story/quest decisions.
I don't think i mentioned gameplay once, so i don't disagree.
Again, i said the game rests on story and mood (and to a degree graphics, back in the day), and i mentioned my problems with both.
I played Bloodlines more than once, and i know the minute to minute gameplay wasn't special (especially when they forced you to use combat), though of course that could be one aspect they could easily improve on the original.

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #81 on: September 06, 2019, 02:43:39 PM »
I just have different expectations. It feels like the type of game where they canít show much because itís so story based and things are due to your choices. And the gameplay isnít why weíre getting this either, as said. And footage has shown that tradition will be carrying on. What Iíve seen looks good. I get having doubts. Weíll just have to wait till release.
weed

Great Rumbler

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #82 on: September 06, 2019, 04:24:47 PM »
I think part of the game is just going to come down to immersing yourself in the feel and mood of the world, which isn't really going to come across in snippets of gameplay.
dog

thisismyusername

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #83 on: September 06, 2019, 07:26:32 PM »
Now wait a minute, we're talking modern vampires.
Of course old-timey vampires never go out of style.  :doge

Count Olak > Spike & Angel.

I like Spike and Angel, but I wouldn't necessarily say they're "leather jacket"s. :/

Will you settle for this, though?



:phil

Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #84 on: September 06, 2019, 11:02:02 PM »
Depends on their dance moves.

Also, Spike was deffo going for that leather overload aesthetic.

toku

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #85 on: May 07, 2020, 12:43:59 PM »
someone say dance moves? lol


GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #86 on: May 07, 2020, 12:51:39 PM »
That reminded me of the psychopath introductions from Dead Rising, which is... not the vibe I was hoping for.

MMaRsu

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #87 on: May 07, 2020, 01:08:29 PM »
Still excited for the game but all I saw was combat, I want some rpg goodness.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #88 on: August 19, 2020, 10:47:39 AM »
More red flags, Brian Mitsoda has been fired  :-\

Quote
Until recently, I was the Narrative Lead on a videogame called Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines 2 for Hardsuit Labs, Inc being published by Paradox Interactive (which owns 30% of Hardsuit Labs). After almost five years involvement with the studio, I was suddenly terminated on 7/16/20.

That this came as a shock to me is underselling it. Iíve worked on Bloodlines 2 for almost five years. The story and main cast was initially conceived in my living room. I helped develop the pitch for Hardsuit Labs and helped pitch the project to Paradox in Las Vegas. Iíve been in charge of the narrative since the beginning, working long days and sometimes weekends to deliver a successor to Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines, and Iíve never been led to believe that I hadnít succeeded. Very obviously, I have also been involved in the PR and marketing side of things, even though it was one of the most difficult parts for me. Iím a pretty private person Ė press and crowds tend to heavily trigger my social anxiety (which, if youíve ever wondered about the gloves, they are ďarmorĒ that make me feel less exposed in situations that trigger my anxiety).

Bloodlines and the fandom of the game mean the world to me. So I lent my legacy with the franchise, my name, and my participation in marketing efforts for the game, even when it was intensely difficult and took a mental and physical toll. This is all because I wanted to do what was best for the game and the team.

The pride in the work, the fan expectations, and the support from co-workers who started out as fans kept me going through this long five years. And Iím incredibly disappointed and frustrated to say that this is where it ends for me on the project.

I was not part of the conversations that led to the decision to delay production, and to my knowledge, there were no delays caused by the Bloodlines 2 narrative development. I am confident and proud of the work that I and my team put forward. When that work will be seen and what form it will take is unknown to me.

It was a pleasure to work on this game and with many people at Hardsuit Labs and Paradox and Iím sorry I wonít be able to see it to the end. I spent years on some of the best characters and dialogue that I ever wrote. Itís meant a lot to hear from the Bloodlines community and I do hope that whatís finally delivered is as satisfying as I intended it to be. Thanks to all of you who supported me throughout the project.

Great Rumbler

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #89 on: August 19, 2020, 11:04:53 AM »
:fbm
dog

Great Rumbler

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #90 on: August 19, 2020, 11:08:19 AM »
Also, they fired the creative director, Kaíai Cluney.

Also, also, they've delayed release until sometime next year.

:tocry :fbm :stahp
dog

Pissy F Benny

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #91 on: August 19, 2020, 11:10:44 AM »
game = confirmed trash :titus

Rufus

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #92 on: August 19, 2020, 11:59:16 AM »
OK, now worry.

Joe Molotov

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #93 on: August 19, 2020, 12:04:10 PM »
It's crazy that we're getting this and Cyberpunk within about a month of each other.

A little too crazy. :killme
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Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #94 on: August 19, 2020, 12:10:02 PM »
Could it be that they fired them as they did the majority of their part, and they figured they could cut corners that way, given the delay?
Anyway, i had very little faith in this project, but this isn't the best news.  :-\

thisismyusername

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #95 on: August 19, 2020, 12:11:04 PM »
Without knowing why, I'm not super worried. I mean, I was already worried because the first one was super jank... but...  :doge

Great Rumbler

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #96 on: August 19, 2020, 12:11:49 PM »
It's crazy that we're getting this and Cyberpunk within about a month of each other.

A little too crazy. :killme

2020 :juicy
dog

Rufus

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #97 on: August 19, 2020, 12:24:40 PM »
Could it be that they fired them as they did the majority of their part, and they figured they could cut corners that way, given the delay?
Anyway, i had very little faith in this project, but this isn't the best news.  :-\
They either mindlessly chopped the heads to speed things along (seems dumb) or whatever Mitsoda an Cluney were trying to do was judged unproductive.

The guy they brought on looks like a finisher. Hope whatever he decides to do doesn't leave obvious craters.
« Last Edit: August 19, 2020, 12:44:30 PM by Rufus »

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #98 on: August 19, 2020, 12:44:56 PM »
I mean... for a narrative heavy title that's been in development for this long, you'd figure the next logical step is to start planning DLC / expansion packs because that's the best way to maximise revenue after you've done all of the heavy lifting getting the base game completed, and that's the kind of thing you can do with narrative and creative leads while the rest of the team work on finalising the release product, while still having them there in case any rewrites are needed.

Rufus

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #99 on: August 19, 2020, 12:49:45 PM »
If you expect it to succeed, sure. I don't think this move shows a lot of confidence in that.

Nintex

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #100 on: August 19, 2020, 12:56:06 PM »
In all the footage this game already looked a bit dated. Another delay won't do it any favors.
Sounds like one of those projects that has been cooking for too long.
XENO

Cindi Mayweather

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #101 on: August 19, 2020, 12:56:40 PM »
NO!!

I was looking forward to this :stop
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thisismyusername

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #102 on: August 19, 2020, 12:59:08 PM »
NO!!

I was looking forward to this :stop

...It's still coming out, just next year. :doge

Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #103 on: August 19, 2020, 12:59:22 PM »
In all the footage this game already looked a bit dated. Another delay won't do it any favors.
Sounds like one of those projects that has been cooking for too long.
It's kinda like Yakuza, it's selling to a niche, not the same people who'll go out and buy god of War, Last of Us or Call of Duty.
Also could work well with streamers, with the narrative branching stuff.

I think it can work with subpar production values, if it's not completely broken like the first one was.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #104 on: August 19, 2020, 01:01:50 PM »
If you expect it to succeed, sure. I don't think this move shows a lot of confidence in that.

Well, yeah. Hence red flags.

Rufus

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #105 on: August 19, 2020, 01:45:16 PM »
Let's just pretend they hurt themselves in confusion and hope for the best. :doge

Maybe the feedback about the combat spooked them? All that part of the game needs to do is deliver predictable results, not compete with Dishonored or Deus Ex. :goty2

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #106 on: August 19, 2020, 01:52:41 PM »
Well that's a bummer. It does seem like a desperate cost cutting move by Paradox since the dev team has been so woke in their PR before this. It might be worth noting that Paradox opened 2 new studios in the last 2 years and their Swedish teams all recently became unionized.

Coffee Dog

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #107 on: August 19, 2020, 05:35:15 PM »
This blows ass.  :stahp You don't fire the head writer and creative director unless you really want to drag it in a different direction. Mitsoda was why I was hopeful for this too. :(

Rufus

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Don Rumata

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2021, 04:38:31 AM »
Tbh what little hope i had for it, died when they fired the main writer from tha past game.

GreatSageEqualOfHeaven

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2021, 05:42:42 AM »
in absence of details of a replacement studio, that's a soft cancellation.  :-\

who is ted danson?

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2021, 06:52:46 AM »
Give it to CDPR.
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Mr Gilhaney

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2021, 07:40:31 AM »
Damn this is going to be a trainwreck when/if it finally does release isnt it. Still somewhat looking forward to it though

Joe Molotov

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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2021, 09:03:50 AM »
Give it to CDPR.

Cyberpunk 2077 is already the spiritual successor to Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines. :lawd
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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2021, 05:30:09 PM »
Sounds like Hardsuit took on a project that was way too ambitious for their skill level and burned through their allotted budget well before the game was finished. Guess it really depends on whether Paradox wants to keep throwing money at it or write it off and move on.
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Re: Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines 2
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2021, 05:31:40 PM »
BRING BACK TROIKA
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