THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Christopher on October 30, 2006, 12:01:26 AM
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You are too young
You have way too many options ahead of you
This guy might seem right now, but in the end you don't know.
Guys let's help her out :(.
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TRANSLATION:
CLOUDWALKING, MARRY ME INSTEAD
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TRANSLATION:
CLOUDWALKING, MARRY ME INSTEAD
NO MARRY ME!
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TRANSLATION:
CLOUDWALKING, MARRY ME INSTEAD
I would def marry her she's without a doubt one of the nicest girls ever, and it doesn't hurt that she's pretty. However, I would wait :S
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She's against making plans to have kids in her teens, but planning to get married that young is perfectly fine. :spin
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Contrary to my original belief, Willco has a good job, and he's moving up the ladder. Seems like a good choice for a husband.
But don't rush things Crystal. I just hope you're happy with the man you're with.
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What? ???
We're not getting married.
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lol this forum has become a sandra bullock movie
willco is the cranky idiosyncratic future mother-in-law
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...thats what I was thinking, willco :lol
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FUCK I thought it said "Crystal do NOT get married" :lol
OMG my eyes
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FUCK I thought it said "Crystal do NOT get married" :lol
OMG my eyes
moran
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FUCK I thought it said "Crystal do NOT get married" :lol
OMG my eyes
haha and you always flaunt that college education over Willco ;p
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She's against making plans to have kids in her teens, but planning to get married that young is perfectly fine. :spin
There are plenty of people who get married in their early 20's or sooner and stay happily married for the rest of their lives.
It's funny how all of the people who know me are happy and know we're making the right decision, while the people who don't know so much as the wedding date are saying it's doomed :spin
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After knowing you personally, I think you are making the
worst mistake of your life a well thought out decision and I will laugh when Phoenix Dark is there pick up the pieces wish you the best of luck!
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Hey were just trying to look out for you cloud :)
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It's funny how all of the people who know me are happy and know we're making the right decision, while the people who don't know so much as the wedding date are saying it's doomed :spin
Analogous Situation
Fat Chick: "Everyone in real life sayz I be the bomb, but I post my photo up in here and ya'll call me a fatty. :spin "
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Nothing wrong with an early engagement. I know a guy who was engaged three times by his early 20's. Builds character.
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Don't move to the Virginias!
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She's against making plans to have kids in her teens, but planning to get married that young is perfectly fine. :spin
There are plenty of people who get married in their early 20's or sooner and stay happily married for the rest of their lives.
There are plenty of people that get married in their only 20's or sooner and get divorced.
People are less likely to tell you that you're making a stupid decision since they tend to be passive and want to avoid confrontation.
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Mandark is completely out of line. I have no doubt cloudwalking will be
using food stamps and begging Bz for an allowance completely fine when this engagement falls apart at the seams is said and done!
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She's against making plans to have kids in her teens, but planning to get married that young is perfectly fine. :spin
There are plenty of people who get married in their early 20's or sooner and stay happily married for the rest of their lives.
There are plenty of people that get married in their only 20's or sooner and get divorced.
People are less likely to tell you that you're making a stupid decision since they tend to be passive and want to avoid confrontation.
By that logic, no one should do anything, then!
There are plenty of people who choke to death on food every day, but does that mean I should never eat again? Give me a break.
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Young marriages are less likely to be successful than marriages at an older age, but marriages at a real late age are also less successful. So the mid-ground is the success spot, but I don't think anyone should live their life or their morals by statistics.
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Good luck cloudwalking :D
I couldn't imagine getting married anytime soon and I am 28, but if you meet the right person I guess it makes sense.
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whoa morphix is 28 :o
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Bacon: Conversely, people are a lot more likely to make snap judgments in situations they don't know anything about online, because they don't have to worry about the consequences of offending someone. The creepy net-crushes are a factor too, obviously.
On this topic, I have a close friend who's almost certainly proposing within a year. His girlfriend is possessive, gets jealous easily, treats him badly in public, has a desire to get pregnant yesterday, and is a crashing bore to boot. All you need to know about the relationship is he says "...but we love each other" as a way of justifying whatever problems there are.
I'll almost certainly be giving the toast at that wedding.
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She's against making plans to have kids in her teens, but planning to get married that young is perfectly fine. :spin
There are plenty of people who get married in their early 20's or sooner and stay happily married for the rest of their lives.
There are plenty of people that get married in their only 20's or sooner and get divorced.
People are less likely to tell you that you're making a stupid decision since they tend to be passive and want to avoid confrontation.
By that logic, no one should do anything, then!
There are plenty of people who choke to death on food every day, but does that mean I should never eat again? Give me a break.
It was your logic in the first place. I just reversed it.
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WTF brought this on.
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I think originally she was implying that in the absence of a hard-and-fast rule about age at time of marriage, it is reasonable to trust her personal judgment.
Which, you know, isn't something you can judo-flip by pointing out the possibility of failure.
MAF: She referred to her "fiance" in another thread, which gives Evilbore one less Fantasy Bachelorette!
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Actually no Mandark there was a topic at OA and bacon said she was getting married which reminded me.
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THE LADIES OF EVILBORE 2007 CALENDAR
Let's make it happen!
cloudwalking can be January, because it is cold and bitter, like her soul.
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I dunno I can kinda imagine Christopher settling down to a Stouffers TV dinner and halfway through his second bite his jaw grinding to a stop as he is hit as if by lightning:
CLOUDWALKING! STOP! DONT GET MARRIED!
I think we could make a tv show out of this, kinda like The Dead Zone but with a different Breakfast Club actor and instead of dead stuff he stops relationships he has no business in.
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MAF: She referred to her "fiance" in another thread, which gives Evilbore one less Fantasy Bachelorette!
I don't give a shit if she gets married, I just thing it's dumb for anyone to do it so young.
But if rodi gets engaged, I'm blowing my brains out.
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Bacon:
Sadly your values are not universal. Yes, some people feel they should do more with their life before marriage, but for some people marriage is all they want to do.
Im sorry but if living your life the way you want to, as long as it doesnt hurt others, is wrong, then I dont wanna be right
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I dunno I can kinda imagine Christopher settling down to a Stouffers TV dinner and halfway through his second bite his jaw grinding to a stop as he is hit as if by lightning:
CLOUDWALKING! STOP! DONT GET MARRIED!
I think we could make a tv show out of this, kinda like The Dead Zone but with a different Breakfast Club actor and instead of dead stuff he stops relationships he has no business in.
Sorta but I would never eat a TV dinner, those are loaded with sat fat and sugars :ack.
That would be awesome if we had the EB breakfast club, I call Emilo
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I didn't say it was wrong I said it was stupid.
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Being 19, I don't get how someone could marry at this age. That said, if someone thinks they can make it work, good luck to them. Seeing as I just got done yelling at my mum for putting asparagus in my dinner, I'm probably not a very good metric for maturity in 19-year olds anyway.
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Bacon: With you I cant tell anymore
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Piss in her bed. That will make her think twice about the asparagus.
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As much as I oppose this sort of thing, if Christopher wants to crash the wedding and object at the "or forever hold your peace" bit, I'll drive.
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Piss in her bed. That will make her think twice about the asparagus.
Nah, I'll probably just hit her or something.
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Holy shit...
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I don't condone that kind of abuse, but then again I don't condone mom fucking up my dinner.
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I can see where Bacon's coming from, and honestly, I had the same viewpoint when my friend Katie told me she was getting married... at 18.
I didn't think it was stupid, but I kept thinking to myself it seemed wayyyyyyy too young.
I don't know her husband all that well, but she's very happy with him, and that she is happy is all that matters to me.
Now I know the situation she's in!
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If cloudwalking gets divorced, she is so losing her mod powers.
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Does her ex get them as part of the settlement?
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I don't condone that kind of abuse, but then again I don't condone mom fucking up my dinner.
Well yeah, sometimes you've got to take a stand, y'know?
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I think the only thing that is certain about marriage is uncertainty. I mean we can sit here and say ITS NOT GONNA WORK LOLZ TOO YOUNG, and there is a 50% chance we will be right. Yes when that time comes you will face the wrath of a million Bacons shouting you down, but if it works out then we won't care.
See all that matters for the bystanders is being right and validating their opinion lol. ARENT PEOPLE AWESOME!
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Probably more than 50%, realistically.
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lolz double or nuthin
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I think the only thing that is certain about marriage is uncertainty. I mean we can sit here and say ITS NOT GONNA WORK LOLZ TOO YOUNG, and there is a 50% chance we will be right. Yes when that time comes you will face the wrath of a million Bacons shouting you down, but if it works out then we won't care.
See all that matters for the bystanders is being right and validating their opinion lol. ARENT PEOPLE AWESOME!
It's greater than 50%.
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you hope lol
Unfortunately I dont believe in statistics of that nature. Each pairing of unique people CONTRIBUTES to the larger statistic more than proves a point one way or another. The only way it can contribute to either side is by going one way or another, which is 50%.
I mean that big statistic is neat in useless e-debates, but when it comes down to the individuals, it rests at 50% because we honestly dont know. We just know how things tend to go, but either way youre still betting on 50/50, you just have confidence in statistic.
I don't. Statistics are junk.
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On this topic, I have a close friend who's almost certainly proposing within a year. His girlfriend is possessive, gets jealous easily, treats him badly in public, has a desire to get pregnant yesterday, and is a crashing bore to boot. All you need to know about the relationship is he says "...but we love each other" as a way of justifying whatever problems there are.
I'll almost certainly be giving the toast at that wedding.
Jesus. Good luck with that.
I also have close friends whose women have taken their balls away from them and will likely wind up getting married to said females. Yet, if either were to break up with his partner at this very moment they'd definitely be emotional wrecks. I guess the desire to be in a relationship is strong enough to blind these guys from seeing the true nature of the demonesses they're dating. The amount of deception and manipulation that goes on seems insane to me, but they all consider it normal. These guys have certain character issues that makes them the pushovers they are, though. Me, I'm far too selfish to go down like that. :burgerking
Cloudwalking: All the best! Don't become the maneater whores my friends will end up marrying!
Edit: Also, marrying for love > marrying for security. SO many girls mistake security/luxury for love, then they find out they married pigs and when it comes time to leave they can't because they don't want to lose their kids and material possessions. Sad, really.
On statistics:
Judging by what I'm observing among my circle of peers, a lot of people rush into marriage just so they don't feel as if they've fallen behind. It's as if once a girl hits her mid-twenties and begins to physically expire, they start going for basically any decent guy that'll settle down with them. I find that females in particular can't stand being left out of marriage/house/baby/kids chat, and from my observations, wind up basing their decisions and goals on what their peers are all doing. Does this sound as fucked up to you as it does to me? It feels like such a sterile approach to life. When I listen to my female friends talk it really sounds like a competition over who's progressing the quickest in life, and I sense the hate in passive-aggressive commentary from more envious members of the conversation.
Based on this, I believe a minute few marry for love while the others are in a sort of rat race just to maintain some guise of social normality. That's why when people spout divorce statistics I don't pay them any mind; a mind-boggling number of people marry for the wrong reasons, and I can see it happening! End rant.
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No. I want everyone to be happy and peace on earth.
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Don't worry, I snuck in a clause in both Catzgirl's and cloudwalking's prenups that if they both divorce within the next 15 years, they'll be forced to dyke it out over an evilbore exclusive webcam server.
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Don't worry, I snuck in a clause in both Catzgirl's and cloudwalking's prenups that if they both divorce within the next 15 years, they'll be forced to dyke it out over an evilbore exclusive webcam server.
It's pretty much a 50% chance! WOOO
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Oh god, why would you make a thread about this?
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cloudwalking doesn't seem like the type of person who would go off an get married without thinking it through. I don't really know her that well but based of the posts I have read she seems pretty responsible and hasn't made the same mistakes inm her life that her sister has made. She knows what she wants and isn't afraid of it, if only we could all be so confident.
Again, congratz I wish you the best :D
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Factors
Percent Decrease in Risk of Divorce
Annual income over $50,000 (vs. under $25,000) -30
Having a baby seven months or more after marriage (vs. before marriage) -24
Marrying over 25 years of age (vs. under 18) -24
Own family of origin intact (vs. divorced parents) -14
Religious affiliation (vs. none) -14
Some college (vs. high-school dropout) -13
Sometimes life is less about planning to succeed ... and more about minimizing your chances of failing.
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I was still single until I was almost 30. One thing that pushed me into marriage was the absolute glut of 20-something women that just came off of a divorce (most married when they were 18-20) and some had kids in tow. That was part of the pool I was dating from ... no thanks.
I felt bad for these women, most had lives you would not envy. Very stressful.
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Cloudwalking is getting married! :o
I'm always out of the loop.
Well, congrats! I'm certainly not going to criticize the decision. My little brother got engaged at 19, and two of my best friends got married at 21. And one's getting married next year at 22. And it seems like it'll work out for all of them.
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I find that females in particular can't stand being left out of marriage/house/baby/kids chat, and from my observations, wind up basing their decisions and goals on what their peers are all doing. Does this sound as fucked up to you as it does to me? It feels like such a sterile approach to life. When I listen to my female friends talk it really sounds like a competition over who's progressing the quickest in life, and I sense the hate in passive-aggressive commentary from more envious members of the conversation.
This is pretty much it inna nutshell.
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Judging by what I'm observing among my circle of peers, a lot of people rush into marriage just so they don't feel as if they've fallen behind. It's as if once a girl hits her mid-twenties and begins to physically expire, they start going for basically any decent guy that'll settle down with them. I find that females in particular can't stand being left out of marriage/house/baby/kids chat, and from my observations, wind up basing their decisions and goals on what their peers are all doing. Does this sound as fucked up to you as it does to me? It feels like such a sterile approach to life. When I listen to my female friends talk it really sounds like a competition over who's progressing the quickest in life, and I sense the hate in passive-aggressive commentary from more envious members of the conversation.
That's fucking scary.
Best of luck, Cloudwalking.
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Judging by what I'm observing among my circle of peers, a lot of people rush into marriage just so they don't feel as if they've fallen behind. It's as if once a girl hits her mid-twenties and begins to physically expire, they start going for basically any decent guy that'll settle down with them. I find that females in particular can't stand being left out of marriage/house/baby/kids chat, and from my observations, wind up basing their decisions and goals on what their peers are all doing. Does this sound as fucked up to you as it does to me? It feels like such a sterile approach to life. When I listen to my female friends talk it really sounds like a competition over who's progressing the quickest in life, and I sense the hate in passive-aggressive commentary from more envious members of the conversation.
Yeah, I've noticed that in many girls. I know one girl who's extremely desperate for a future husband. Shortly after I met her she'd tell everyone that we were getting married, and she showed me all the wedding plans. For awhile I thought it was an annoying joke, but the behavior continued on. If I was talking to another chick she'd walk right up to me and just stand there, listening to the conversation like a 5 year old.
One time on her birthday I forgot to get her anything, so I decided to just call her and sing happy birthday; pretty romantic no? Couple days later she sent me an e-mail telling me she wanted to be with me and crap. I told her I'd rather just be friends. A year later she asked again, and I turned her down again. But then she got mad and started arguing with me. After I told her I kinda sort of "dated" this one chick who was a pastor's daughter, she got even more pissed lol. Jealousy pisses me off.
Everynow and then I check out her MySpace page, and it seems like she's still just as desperate. Her birthday is next month, but I don't think I'm going to contact her
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You really are making a mistake, you're only 19? You still have a lot of growing up to do and you still need to find yourself. I thought I was in love and was actually engaged when I was 20, thank god it didn't work out...I look back on it now and realize I was practically a different person then, still immature and naive.
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and this has changed how?
lolz come on you were WIDE OPEN
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It can't possibly be that certain needs and desires are hardwired, its always society, peer groups, etc. with you people. You believe in evolution yet somehow believe evolution has not shaped modern man and woman. Do you think that natural selection would not select for a female brain that, to various degrees, desired to have children and subsequently a long-term mate to help raise those children?
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It can't possibly be that certain needs and desires are hardwired, its always society, peer groups, etc. with you people. You believe in evolution yet somehow believe evolution has not shaped modern man and woman. Do you think that natural selection would not select for a female brain that, to various degrees, desired to have children and subsequently a long-term mate to help raise those children?
Shut up Malek
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I agree with Malek, however I dont believe there are enough statistics and facts to accurately predict a single relationship.
You can predict trends of large groups, but what good is that when you get down to it? People will still try, and succeed or fail, they did what they wanted to not because the stats say so, but its because what they decided.
Internet factiods and MSN statistics are crutches for people who dont actually want to think on the problems of each individual relationship, which are far more complex than any broad generalizations could possibly hope to represent.
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redWOOD, want to get hitched?
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I never said any individual relationship can be predicted and I also made sure to type that this applies to women in "various degrees".
I would add that if people want say that women face societal pressures to have children they should look at the various societal pressures on women, especially educated women, to not have children. Society isn't moving in a single direction.
PD, shut up.
redWOOD, want to get hitched?
Make sure to use at least three condoms and to wear a hermetically sealed suit when you're in bed with her.
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malek: I was mostly talking to everyone else quoting statistics as bible truth. Im willing to bow to your science evolution crap, but im not gonna acknowledge stats n crap
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I'm in love
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malek: I was mostly talking to everyone else quoting statistics as bible truth. Im willing to bow to your science evolution crap, but im not gonna acknowledge stats n crap
ToxicAdam's stats aren't crap. Young, poor, and uneducated people are more likely to get divorced. This has been studied to death. People who are young and uneducated are obviously more likely to make a serious mistake than an experienced educated person is. And financial troubles create a lot of tension in any marriage. My parents were far from poor, yet money was like the number one thing they argued about. I'd hate to see what would have happened if they were actually poor and couldn't pay the bills.
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I'm in love
I am too, but it doesn't mean we can't get married!
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I'm in love
I am too, but it doesn't mean we can't get married!
Please eat me. And while you are savouring the taste of my flesh, tell me what you think is better - virtual relationships or RL ones? I confess I'm confused on this point.
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The warm feeling of physical intimacy is never outmatched by the cold reaches of cyberspace.
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I was on OA and I saw a picture of blackACID from a wedding or something, and wow she's actually really pretty.
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Hello Common Sense, nice to meet you.
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the sexual tension in these last few posts is....
.... almost non existent :P
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It's a bit silly to be so hostile to the idea of social pressures. If they weren't a factor, then all these changing birthrates, marriage ages, divorce rates etc, would have to be a result of some really quick evolution.
I think Takuan pretty much got it. All people do silly things for social status, but having kids is only really cultural capital if you're a woman.
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My position is not that societal factors are not important. My position is that societal pressures are not the sole factor. And all those things you listed Mandark point to societal factors putting pressure away from marriage and away from child rearing, and not the other way around.
Addendum: I claimed that the female brain inherently desires children and a long-term mate. Things like a falling birth rate and a rising age of marriage do not really change whether these things are desired by women, only that these things may be more difficult to attain.
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Interlacing your posts with needlessly verbose language does not make you appear smart. It just makes it seem like you have trouble communicating clearly. . .not exactly a hallmark of intelligence
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Give me a break blackACID. I use words I feel best help communicate my ideas and positions and I'm not unnecessarily verbose. I suppose for someone who probably considers USA Today heavy reading I am in fact verbose.
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jizz
Hug your id. Love it. Accepting it is the only thing keeping you from going batshit.
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jizz
Hug your id. Love it. Accepting it is the only thing keeping you from going batshit.
You're just upset at me for what I wrote in your thread. Nobody has ever accused me of writing like Jotaro before so I can only conclude you're grasping at straws here.
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Well, it's not like anyone here argued that social pressures are the only factor. Plus, in the parenting thread, you kvetched when I brought it up at all.
The problem with arguments from evolutionary psychology is that a lot of them are in the form of "back in the day, things were like this..." or "I'm sure it would be an evolutionary incentive for..." The female brain wants children and a mate to protect and rear them? Well, okay. Why wouldn't the male brain? It has just as much stake in passing its genes to the next generation, and making sure that generation reaches adulthood to do the same.
Changing social stats are at least good for one, basic lesson: the current state of things isn't necessarily dictated by biology, because it hasn't always been and won't always be the state of things, even with the same biology.
I don't think the changes show that society is pushing women away from having children, so much as careers are now a real possibility, and women are still being given the choice between a career and kids. Also, you don't have to look any further than children's toys to see values being assigned by gender at an early age.
blackACID: I don't think verbose means what you think it means...
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jizz
Hug your id. Love it. Accepting it is the only thing keeping you from going batshit.
You're just upset at me for what I wrote in your thread. Nobody has ever accused me of writing like Jotaro before so I can only conclude you're grasping at straws here.
hehe. thats just crazy talk
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Mandark I have class in a few minutes. I'll respond later.
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blackACID: I don't think verbose means what you think it means...
Could you please explain it to everyone, oh intelligent one? Let me just get my pillow & blankie so I can get comfy while you go on and on and on and on and on and on and on about it.
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My position is not that societal factors are not important. My position is that societal pressures are not the sole factor. And all those things you listed Mandark point to societal factors putting pressure away from marriage and away from child rearing, and not the other way around.
Addendum: I claimed that the female brain inherently desires children and a long-term mate. Things like a falling birth rate and a rising age of marriage do not really change whether these things are desired by women, only that these things may be more difficult to attain.
Wow, STFU Mr. JC Penny Aristotle
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Wow, STFU Mr. JC Penny Aristotle
:lol
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MY point is for all the people who wanna reference stats and studies, its all garbage because over THOUSANDS OF YEARS human nature has never been completely understood, and numbers n generalizations aren't abot to crack that code.
You can say things are LIKELY, but you cannot, and really should not, give people personal advice based off of these numbers. By even telling them these things you are influencing them, and that alone makes the numbers inaccurate.
Its neat some of you made it to college, but gimme a break.
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I'm in love
Weren't you fucking two different guys like a week ago?
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Its neat some of you made it to college, but gimme a break.
HAY GUYZ, IF YOU WEAR A BLINDFOLD AND CROSS THE EXPRESSWAY AT RUSH HOUR, THERE IS A CHANCE YOU WILL MAKE IT ACROSS!! FUCK YOUR STATISTICS AND BOOK LEARNIN!!
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lolz you win with caps. Good job.
I just think in an effort to feel smart people embrace the wishful thinking that they can quantify humanity.
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She's against making plans to have kids in her teens, but planning to get married that young is perfectly fine. :spin
There are plenty of people who get married in their early 20's or sooner and stay happily married for the rest of their lives.
It's funny how all of the people who know me are happy and know we're making the right decision, while the people who don't know so much as the wedding date are saying it's doomed :spin
Know that feeling.....
Bunch of people online apparently KNOWS and HOPES that Denise and I break up, whereas everyone close to us knew we were making the right choice.
You're calm, cool, and collected about it. As long as you keep that state of mind I think you're doin just fine :pirate
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lolz you win with caps. Good job.
I just think in an effort to feel smart people embrace the wishful thinking that they can quantify humanity.
I can't get mad at a person who has a sweet grandmother as an avatar. :-*
I think statistics are important in today's society, because marriage is at a crossroads in terms of relevence. Marriage was once a necessity in our society. Now it is merely a custom.
Some people put more thought into what car and what house they are going to buy, rather than who they marry. The latter having deeper scars if it goes sour.
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NO MORE SWEET GRANDMA! IM THUGGIN! Check out Drinky's latest thread for details.
http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=1773.0
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lolz you win with caps. Good job.
I just think in an effort to feel smart people embrace the wishful thinking that they can quantify humanity.
I can't get mad at a person who has a sweet grandmother as an avatar. :-*
I think statistics are important in today's society, because marriage is at a crossroads in terms of relevence. Marriage was once a necessity in our society. Now it is merely a custom.
Some people put more thought into what car and what house they are going to buy, rather than who they marry. The latter having deeper scars if it goes sour.
It's because stupid people who know nothing about married couples decide to get married, when they don't even think "hmm, way down the road, will I be able to be with this person?"
They think stupid thoughts like "Well I know things suck now... maybe they'll get better"
And now there's all these requirements for people.... You have to go to college, graduate, get a job, and THEN get married. It's like fucking clock work, and plenty of times people will simply choose their school/careers over a person they love. Apparently getting an education 1-2 years quicker is more important than being with someone they love. And the sad part about that, is the parents always encourage the education first! As if everyoe their child is involved with is considered a "useless childish fling."
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I dont think there are special smart people who get married that can predict the future. I wish no ill will on your relationship Prost, but pride before a fall n all that.
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Do you think you're the slightest bit self-righteous, there, Prost?
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takes all kinds lol
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Hmmm, I hated married life and Cloudwalking called me an asshole on GAF so....
GET MARRIED CLOUDWALKING!! IT'S THE GREATEST THING EVER!
lolz, I'm actually happy for people that decide to get married. Some people do it way too young though, like I did. I just can't ever see myself getting married again realistically. And the only girl I could ever see myself marrying, I know it won't happen.
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Well ultimately it is not our lives, and ultimately we aren't 'close friends' so the result of clouds decision only serves to put us in positions to say 'We told you so' and honestly thats pretty fuckin petty.
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Do you think you're the slightest bit self-righteous, there, Prost?
You're just a cock to me all the time. I expected your reply to be some negative comment.
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Dont avoid the point lol. Even a jerk can speak the truth, blunt as it may be.
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Cloudwalking married? :(
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You're just a cock to me all the time. I expected your reply to be some negative comment.
Prost, I wasn't replying to anything; I was asking you a question. I don't think asking if you find yourself to be a bit self-righteous is being a "cock", necessarily.
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I'lltake Prost's advice a bit more seriously three years from now when the honeymoon is over. No offense there, but the day the brain chemicals stop kicking in that lovey-dovey endorphin rush and the "romance" is over -- well, that's the day when marriage really starts.
My wife was 19 when we married. I was 23. We've been married 9 years. Cloud seems an eminently practical chick; she can do it.
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In the end, a marriage works if you are both ugly or mentally ill. It's a communion of misery.
That's how I account for the half of marriages that work in today's society.
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I'm just being outrageous. Good luck to everyone in wedded bliss.
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In the end, a marriage works if you are both ugly or mentally ill. It's a communion of misery.
That's how I account for the half of marriages that work in today's society.
Totally random. Why do you have a avatar of Howie still?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v216/Snapit4fun/652SnapBB7.jpg)
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It's how I look on the inside.
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The problem with arguments from evolutionary psychology is that a lot of them are in the form of "back in the day, things were like this..." or "I'm sure it would be an evolutionary incentive for..." The female brain wants children and a mate to protect and rear them? Well, okay. Why wouldn't the male brain? It has just as much stake in passing its genes to the next generation, and making sure that generation reaches adulthood to do the same.
Well if you believe in evolution and natural selection then you also necessarily believe that nature preserves traits that enhance survival and reproduction. Would it make sense for nature to produce a species that doesn't want children and requires societal pressures to have children? What happened before we formed societies?
Now keep in mind most of the evolutionary history of our species has occurred before we had consciousness and had thoughtful control over our behavior. There is an asymmetry between men and women and there always has been. Men can, theoretically, reproduce dozens of times a year if not more while at most a woman can reproduce just once a year. Sperm is cheap and eggs are rare and valuable. From this natural difference males and females would develop somewhat different reproductive strategies.
Men are more likely to seek quantity of partners while women search for quality. The strategies converge because human children require a lot of attention, investment and education, whether now or in our ancestral past. So natural selection would also select for men who were more likely to make an emotional investment in their children. So you see men are somewhat pulled between two reproductive strategies, one quasi-polygamous and one monogamous.
Changing social stats are at least good for one, basic lesson: the current state of things isn't necessarily dictated by biology, because it hasn't always been and won't always be the state of things, even with the same biology.
Obviously we have control over our actions and are not biological determined in the sense that we have to act in a certain way. If you recall I said nature built in a desire to have children to varying degrees, but humans have many desires and in our current environment many of these desires conflict with child rearing. Most importantly our environment has many forms of contraceptives, so we can engage in sex (natural selection made sex enjoyable for obvious reasons... so we'd have lots of sex and reproduce) and not automatically have children. So men can engage in sex with many women, as to a certain extent they are biologically programmed to do, and yet not have any children to show for it. However in our ancestral past (where these genes would have been selected for originally) the result would be many children for the alpha male stud.
I don't think the changes show that society is pushing women away from having children, so much as careers are now a real possibility, and women are still being given the choice between a career and kids. Also, you don't have to look any further than children's toys to see values being assigned by gender at an early age.
Is gender a societal construct. What would happen if parents raised boys as girls and made them wear dresses and play with dollies and other traditional girlie things? By your way of thinking they would grow to like the dolls and like the dresses?
No! One study looked at 25 boys born without penises who were subsequently castrated and raised as girls (Reiner 2000). All of them showed stereotypical male behavior despite their parent's best efforts to raise them as girls. Most of the boys, on their very own, declared that they were boys (just think of how rare that normally is). Nature persevered over nurture.
There is a famous case involving Brenda. Brenda was born as Bruno, but lost his penis when he was an infant. The boy was castrated and the doctors built an artificial vagina. Brenda's parents consulted sex experts who claimed that gender was a societal construct and were told to simply raise Brenda as a girl and all would be fine. However from the earliest memories Brenda always knew that she was really a boy, she rejected her clothing and her dolls and played with boys and stereotypical male toys instead. At age fourteen she was suicidal and threatened to kill herself if she wasn't allowed to have a sex change operation. Her parents then informed her that she was actually a boy and today she is a man married to a woman.
POINT? Toys are constructed for males and females, toys do not construct males and females.
And no I'm not denying that some males like to play with tradition female toys and vice versa.
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Contrary to my original belief, Willco has a good job, and he's moving up the ladder. Seems like a good choice for a husband.
But don't rush things Crystal. I just hope you're happy with the man you're with.
......Wilco is...white...man, that automatically makes him inferior by 50 dkp, another 50 dkp cause hes from maryland
:P just kidding! dont ban me.
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......Wilco is...white...man
Would have never guessed. I thought he was gay and from the Northwest?
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malek = Loki ???
:o
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what the flying fuck is "dkp"
Donkey Kong Points? I don't get it.
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malek = Loki ???
:o
dude, shut up. If the entire post fits on your screen, it isn't worthy to be compared to Loki.
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malek is practicing for the LSATs or something...
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Marriage? Look at what happened to Britney Spears.
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Marriage? Look at what happened to Britney Spears.
It was all down hill from the school girl outfit.
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dude, shut up. If the entire post fits on your screen, it isn't worthy to be compared to Loki.
Sorry, I don't have a 60 inch screen. :(
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the real question is are we all invited to the wedding? I would like to have a reason to buy a new suit other than standing in front of a judge.
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what the flying fuck is "dkp"
Donkey Kong Points? I don't get it.
Dragon Kill Points, you get them for raiding in WoW or EQ. It's how you bid on gear.
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ohhhhhhhhhhhhhh, that's why I didn't get it.
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This is Hall of Fame material when it's all said and done.
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Saint: I've played WoW since launch and even I didnt get that.
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malek: I'm not arguing that gender is a social construct. There is obviously a strong internal gender identification. However, there are tons of values, expectations, etc. that get assigned based on gender by society.
A boy being forced to live as a girl may sense that he is, in fact, a boy. His insistence on wearing "male" clothing comes both from his gender identity and his perception of what constitutes male clothes. Pink is currently considered feminine, but that's arbitrary, rather than innate. Would he reject wearing a skirt if it were called a kilt and he saw all the men in his culture wearing it?
Looking at the evolution side, I don't see a lot of evidence for selective, monogamous women and promiscuous alpha males. Bonobos and chimpanzees are promiscuous both male and female. Menstrual cycles rather than estrus allow for greater sexual activity by females, hidden ovulation makes a harem less likely, and the evolution of sperm-producing genes shows that there has probably been competition within the uterus in recent (evolutionary) human history.
Some people throw around the alpha-male/maternal-female evolutionary sexual behavior meme a lot, and it is pretty intuitive. That's the problem though; it's not really based on anything much deeper than intuition.
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I immedately gloss over when I see one of Mandork's tracts
Seriously, man - have you ever had any contact with an actual human being outside of your family and / or care-takers? I get such an unbeliveable Stephen Hawking vibe from you.
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This is Hall of Fame material when it's all said and done.
It will be a hilarious thread to read when half the people in here are married or engaged in 4-5 years.
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I highly doubt that statistic, Republican!
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I know which half I'll be in!
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Double homicide suicide half?
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Double homicide suicide half?
no. the...uh. the non-married..half. not that one. that's too many halves.
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It will be a hilarious thread to read when half the people in here are married or engaged in 4-5 years.
Are you married or engaged?
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married for almost 4 years.
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How long ago were you fucking that fat chick?
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I give my wife about 6 more years. :rimshot
But, seriously, back in 1995. Right before I moved to Cleveland. IShe wasn't real obsese. Probably in the 150-160 range. Always wanted sex with the lights off .. bummer.
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You're an interesting cat, dude. Too bad you hate me so :cry
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what the flying fuck is "dkp"
Donkey Kong Points? I don't get it.
Dragon Kill Points, you get them for raiding in WoW or EQ. It's how you bid on gear.
How the hell did you know that? and why does PD have your picture in the costume thread? Who the hell are you again?
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Good thread guys, keep it up.
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Mandark I never argued that females were strictly monogamous. A drive for a long term mate along with a desire for multiple partners are not mutually exclusive. I simply said females were more selective then males, which they are in pretty much every species where the female carries the greater reproductive burden.
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It can't possibly be that certain needs and desires are hardwired, its always society, peer groups, etc. with you people. You believe in evolution yet somehow believe evolution has not shaped modern man and woman. Do you think that natural selection would not select for a female brain that, to various degrees, desired to have children and subsequently a long-term mate to help raise those children?
But the defining and 'great' quality of the human race is their adaptability. Such situations in the past demanded that the female stay home to care for the child and the man gather resources, so we adapted to those functions. Now those roles are not necessary for survival in major Countries like the US, Canada or Britain(this is the last time I AM EVER CALLING CANADA A COUNTRY!). Predefined and strict roles are not a forerunner to survival. It just was that way for so long, that it became indoctrined into our cultures and society, but it is an outdated idea that not only isn't needed, but is quite possibley harmful.
There was a thread on this forum awhile ago about Maslow's pryamid, and I think it applies here. The female and male gender roles were adequate for a long time, but they worked at the low to midrange of Maslow's pryamid of self efficacy. Now we have more convienences and flexibility. In our western world, every day is not a struggle to survive. We can afford to not reproduce, not go hunting and gathering, and not be trapped within roles. Since we've fulfilled our basic needs, we naturally go to a higher need of self fullfilment. This is where gender roles become hamrful, because the roles themselves are like mental prisons that interlock together. We want to be more, we want to be many things more, but the roles say we can just be "this" and "this".
Of course, we are inclined to procreate the species, but we're not in harm of lack of survival and we are different in that we know that. So I do not think the woman looking to have babies and have a man provide is natural to us, I think it is a role we adapted to for a long time but is now not needed and unhealthy. We must adapt again.
(sorry babbling post)
edit: I see this thread has already been going over the whole male role female role thing.