THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Tieno on June 16, 2008, 03:47:59 PM

Title: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Tieno on June 16, 2008, 03:47:59 PM
http://www.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=8772271&publicUserId=4551247
What I like least about MGS 4 isn't MGS 4
WARNING: CONTAINS SPOILERS




Acid08, NeoGaf.com forums: "MGS's story raises the bar because of the themes it deals with. The whole military becoming a privatized corporation is completely believable and gives us a haunting look into what might be our future."



In one post, forum member X puts forward the chilling plausibility of MGS 4's plot and scenarios. In another, he lashes out at anyone with the audacity to hold him to it. 'Why should soft science fiction strive for realism?' he asks. And the answer is that it shouldn't. I'm challenging your claims, not MGS 4 producer Hideo Kojima and company's.



Part of a schizophrenic's paranoid soliloquy may contain cause for legitimate concern. But before he can consider the matter, he's carried away to larger, more sinister conspiracies, one on top of another until ultimately he arrives at something like the script for Metal Gear Solid 2: Sons of Liberty. In MGS 4, a world in which corporations alone wage war becomes one in which those corporations use the Thetans of nano-tech to control the minds and bodies of their contractors, which becomes one in which artificial intelligences command the corporations along with the world's economy and media. Non-voters in the audience take refuge in the assumption that an all-powerful and despotic Illuminati is pulling the strings that pull the strings in an arrangement that ascends to someplace between a Prime Mover and blind destiny. Responsibility absolved.





Shane Bettenhausen, 1UP Yours: "When I see MGS transcending the medium, pushing the envelope... When I hear [people complain that there are] 'too many cutscenes,' I think, 'you're a peasant.' MGS 4 made me think about PMCs -- which, in a way, I hadn't before. The fact that [Kojima] brings up these real issues and brings them to light for people who don't really think about them...."



What exactly is it encouraging us to think, though? We're certainly not asking ourselves who pays Metal Gear's private military companies or how this take on a total war economy sustains itself. In the world we live in, the U.S. State Department spends American money to pay for security contractors. If in MGS 4's world, failed states are the PMCs chief clients, we should ask why. Smart money says the answers would involve "nations, ideologies, or ethnicities" -- the very motivators that almost everyone of the game's characters continually says are moot in an age of "endless proxy battles."



Nor are we asking who these militias are or what they're fighting for. Not once does the game give these militia members a face or voice. When twenty die beside us in battle, we don't see corpses; we see guns and unredeemed Drebin points -- a missed opportunity, considering the sense it makes for a living relic (Snake) to sympathize with rebels who defeat nano-tech stormtroopers and their battle bots with nothing but old-fashioned human resources and bulldozers.



Regardless, I have a "real issue" for Shane: Since when does indifference to Saturday morning melodrama, and lines like "If you won't be a prisoner to fate, then go fulfill your destiny!" make someone a peasant? Isn't it more incriminating to look at MGS 4's good fun as though it were a window on our future? And what about needing its flimflam to awaken an interest in the world around us? I'll leave that to NeoGaf's Linkzg, who jokingly writes, "I didn't understand that Nazis were evil until I came face to face with Hitler in a mech suit in Wolfenstein 3D."



Implausible stories can and do spur serious thought on important topics. But Wolfenstein 3D is not Brave New World. And until someone bothers to make a case that MGS 4 has something more to say about PMCs than that a Cheshire Cat arms broker profits up to the point that a rogue agent grabs control of the computer that runs the planet, then Guns of the Patriots is not 1984. If anything, Universal Soldier is the appropriate analogy. Or Battlefield Earth.



IGN review: "Is it possible to give a game an 11? If so, this would be the game that would merit that score. Metal Gear Solid 4 is a title that exceeds all the hype that was attached to the title."



GamePro review: "Every once in a long while a game will come along and change all the rules. Final Fantasy VII transformed the RPG genre, Resident Evil helped create a new sub-category of gaming -- survival horror -- and GTA III single-handedly reshaped the gaming landscape. And now comes Metal Gear Solid 4, a game whose potential influence on the current state of gaming is nothing short of tectonic."



GamePlayers review: "Gamers should be eternally grateful that such a game exists."





I can't believe my ears when, on 1UP Yours, Ryan Payton of Kojima Productions comments that "with triple-A titles, it's almost like its inherent [for reviewers] to start tearing down [a game's] different aspects." He's complaining about Edge magazine's 8-out-of-10 review score which sticks out where over a dozen 10-out-of-10s from other outlets don't. He's ignoring the many, many critics who sound more like a paid audience offering infomercial testimonials. MGS 4, they preach, is a rule-rewriting, paradigm-shifting, earth-moving, bar-raising, wheel-reinventing tour de force that presumably relieves headaches when applied directly to the forehead. We've left our own world at this point and find ourselves in a parallel dimension where man has invented fire, Alf, and little else. Throw in the insight of message board visitors like ThePure -- who, on Gametrailers.com's forums, posts that "Solid Snake is by far one of the best heroes of our generation, though it takes wise people to see this" -- and we've entered an alternate time line where Martin Luther King Jr. and Mother Theresa never lived and the measure of humanity is a gun-toting Houdini.



I respectfully disagree that reviewers are overly critical of triple-A titles and believe that the evidence in reviews of MGS 4, Grand Theft Auto IV, Call of Duty 4, and BioShock backs me. All of these are excellent games with big budgets. Critics gushed and gushed over each, and practically apologized after pointing out any of their problems. If MGS 4 doesn't sell by the millions it won't be for scathing reviews. The trouble, if there is any, lies in leading readers to believe that a videogame is the Second Coming...even if it is a lower-case fourth.


Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Grecco on June 16, 2008, 03:51:34 PM
Hes 100 percent right.

Ryan Payton sounded sooo whiny complaing about negative reviews. How every AAA game wants to be torn by reviewers how Grid got better scores...

/Bow Shawn Elliot.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: CurseoftheGods on June 16, 2008, 03:55:56 PM
:bow Shawn Elliot :bow2
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Tucah on June 16, 2008, 03:57:00 PM
I completely agree with him.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 03:57:06 PM
He's right, and honestly? For all my love of MGS4, i feel like chocking a bitch every time i hear Shane or Ryan or anyone of those "Gameoftheforever, read my post on how i tell you this game has the best story every, the best gameplay ever, etc etc" badge wielding motherfuckers.

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Eel O'Brian on June 16, 2008, 03:58:14 PM
i guess shawn's gonna get turned on by the raving rabbids at gaf now
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Tieno on June 16, 2008, 04:00:17 PM
i guess shawn's gonna get turned on by the raving rabbids at gaf now
Most of his blog isn't even directed at the game but he calls out other people
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: demi on June 16, 2008, 04:02:01 PM
Can I get tl;dr version? It just seems like he's saying "I disagree. This game isnt that good."
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Eel O'Brian on June 16, 2008, 04:03:03 PM
i guess shawn's gonna get turned on by the raving rabbids at gaf now
Most of his blog isn't even directed at the game but he calls out other people

yes, but their word is gospel to that bunch, especially bettenhausen's preaching
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: CurseoftheGods on June 16, 2008, 04:05:58 PM
Is there a NeoGAF topic for this?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Draft on June 16, 2008, 04:09:41 PM
GFW guys come across as the only actual human beings in game journalism.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 16, 2008, 04:13:38 PM
Is there a NeoGAF topic for this?

its in the 1up yours thread

GFW guys come across as the only actual human beings in game journalism.

its because GFW stands for Games For Windows.  PC Gaming, always 42 steps ahead.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: CurseoftheGods on June 16, 2008, 04:26:58 PM
Calling out a corporate mouthpiece like Ryan Payton and forum posters isn't exactly bold journalism.  Shane and IGN deserve it.

It wasn't an attempt at bold journalism. It's a fucking blog post.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Kestastrophe on June 16, 2008, 04:27:47 PM
GFW guys come across as the only actual human beings in game journalism.

Except for Rion Scott.

Calling out a corporate mouthpiece like Ryan Payton and forum posters isn't exactly bold journalism.  Shane and IGN deserve it.

Tru dat. IGN always seems to cigarillo over games when they least deserve it. It's too bad that they are the most popular gaming site.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Grecco on June 16, 2008, 04:32:14 PM
I thought Gamespot gets more hits than IGN.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Kestastrophe on June 16, 2008, 04:34:27 PM
I thought Gamespot gets more hits than IGN.

(http://widgets.alexa.com/traffic/graph/?r=3m&y=r&z=3&h=300&w=610&c=1&u%5B%5D=ign.com&u%5B%5D=gamespot.com&x=2008-06-16T20%3A31%3A53.000Z&check=www.alexa.com&signature=Q0TbZMCA4ARkTXDKyaFMo9XNrfs%3D)

I guess you're right. I must have been thinking of forum users.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 04:40:16 PM
i'm enjoying mgs4, but the plot is nonsense cut straight out of the xenogears cloth. it's superficially deep, with detailed data exposition (military fetishism and conspiracy memes in mgs4; gnosticism/qabalah and arthur c clarke in in xenogears) endeavoring to replace depth of metaphor and narrative. mgs4 is ultimately nothing more than a gundam plot covered in said research and occasionally tapping at the fourth wall. it's only deep if you don't read books or watch movies in any regular form.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Kestastrophe on June 16, 2008, 04:42:16 PM
i'm enjoying mgs4, but the plot is nonsense cut straight out of the xenogears cloth. it's superficially deep, with detailed data exposition (military fetishism and conspiracy memes in mgs4; gnosticism/qabalah and arthur c clarke in in xenogears) endeavoring to replace depth of metaphor and narrative. mgs4 is ultimately nothing more than a gundam plot covered in said research and occasionally tapping at the fourth wall. it's only deep if you don't read books or watch movies in an y regular form.
You are awesome
:bow drinky :bow2




Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Brehvolution on June 16, 2008, 04:47:22 PM
So now we have reviewers critiquing reviews?  ::)
Load times, framerate drops, cut scene length, and length of single player campaign are only problems in PS3 exclusives.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 04:47:34 PM
during snake's hilariously cliched monologue in the very beginning, i honestly expected him to murmur "history...is an endless waltz..." in that hokey gravelly voice of his
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Kestastrophe on June 16, 2008, 04:48:05 PM
I would like to share some of my favorite quotes from the 1up thread on GAF:

Quote from: Elbrain
all I ever see from him talk about or post when he talks about MGS4. Guess he really hates MGS cut scenes and topics.

Quote from: Jack Scofield
Does Shawn make it his point to rip on MGS4 or something? Even when the first gameplay trailer was released, it wasn't long before he was complaining about the gun models, set-pieces, wonky animations, bland textures, and more.

And now he devotes an entire blog post to to why the game isn't as "deep" as anyone thinks? Is he unable to enjoy the game because he knows other people really, really like it? Just take the game for what it is, Shawn. If you don't like it, you don't have to let the entire world know, while at the same time act condescending towards those who DO enjoy the game.

I guess I can look forward to the next episode of GFW, which I'm sure will have the theme of "hate on MGS4."

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Brehvolution on June 16, 2008, 04:51:11 PM
I would like to share some of my favorite quotes from the 1up thread on GAF:

Quote from: Elbrain
all I ever see from him talk about or post when he talks about MGS4. Guess he really hates MGS cut scenes and topics.

Quote from: Jack Scofield
Does Shawn make it his point to rip on MGS4 or something? Even when the first gameplay trailer was released, it wasn't long before he was complaining about the gun models, set-pieces, wonky animations, bland textures, and more.

And now he devotes an entire blog post to to why the game isn't as "deep" as anyone thinks? Is he unable to enjoy the game because he knows other people really, really like it? Just take the game for what it is, Shawn. If you don't like it, you don't have to let the entire world know, while at the same time act condescending towards those who DO enjoy the game.

I guess I can look forward to the next episode of GFW, which I'm sure will have the theme of "hate on MGS4."



Why are they you favorite? Because they disagree and that is humorous to you? To me it seams that this guy is going out of his way to say, apparently for the umpteenth time, that he doesn't thing MGS4 is that great. Why do we even care what he thinks anyway?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Tieno on June 16, 2008, 04:53:28 PM
So now we have reviewers critiquing reviews?  ::)
Load times, framerate drops, cut scene length, and length of single player campaign are only problems in PS3 exclusives.
What's wrong with someone calling out reviewers as paid advertisers?
And he's not even touching on load times and that stuff but on the hyperbole, go read the OP again.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Grecco on June 16, 2008, 04:59:24 PM
I would like to share some of my favorite quotes from the 1up thread on GAF:

Quote from: Elbrain
all I ever see from him talk about or post when he talks about MGS4. Guess he really hates MGS cut scenes and topics.

Quote from: Jack Scofield
Does Shawn make it his point to rip on MGS4 or something? Even when the first gameplay trailer was released, it wasn't long before he was complaining about the gun models, set-pieces, wonky animations, bland textures, and more.

And now he devotes an entire blog post to to why the game isn't as "deep" as anyone thinks? Is he unable to enjoy the game because he knows other people really, really like it? Just take the game for what it is, Shawn. If you don't like it, you don't have to let the entire world know, while at the same time act condescending towards those who DO enjoy the game.

I guess I can look forward to the next episode of GFW, which I'm sure will have the theme of "hate on MGS4."



Why are they you favorite? Because they disagree and that is humorous to you? To me it seams that this guy is going out of his way to say, apparently for the umpteenth time, that he doesn't thing MGS4 is that great. Why do we even care what he thinks anyway?

More like whiny Kojimafags who learn about the world through the convoluted narrative that is metal gear solid, any critisism is seen as blasphemy.

Shawn Elliot isnt saying he doesnt like Metal Gear. Go read the blog.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Brehvolution on June 16, 2008, 05:00:46 PM
So now we have reviewers critiquing reviews?  ::)
Load times, framerate drops, cut scene length, and length of single player campaign are only problems in PS3 exclusives.
What's wrong with someone calling out reviewers as paid advertisers?
And he's not even touching on load times and that stuff but on the hyperbole, go read the OP again.
I'm saying reviews in general, not this guy's BS. 1up is a pro 360 site and he should be struck by lightning for accusing of Sony moneyhats as if to say that 1up never received anything from MS. ::)
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Draft on June 16, 2008, 05:02:07 PM
The opening cutscene of MGS4 did in fact piss me off. Snake growls, "War has changed."

I'm sorry, Snake, but all true gamers know that war never changes.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Grecco on June 16, 2008, 05:03:32 PM
So now we have reviewers critiquing reviews?  ::)
Load times, framerate drops, cut scene length, and length of single player campaign are only problems in PS3 exclusives.
What's wrong with someone calling out reviewers as paid advertisers?
And he's not even touching on load times and that stuff but on the hyperbole, go read the OP again.
I'm saying reviews in general, not this guy's BS. 1up is a pro 360 site and he should be struck by lightning for accusing of Sony moneyhats as if to say that 1up never received anything from MS. ::)


1up is pro 360?  :lol :lol
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:03:58 PM
it's easy; just read about stuff that interests you. i've always been fascinated by kabalah/qabalah and medieval alchemy, and i've read a metric shit-tonne of classic sci-fi. for example, seeing how poorly xenogears utilized these ideas in its narrative really irked me -- it referenced the sefirot and the zohar without really understanding what they are and thus failed to effectively use them as a symbol, concept, allegory, or metaphor. really, in xenogears, the concepts are just used to give cool pseudo-religious names to stuff. same thing with mgs4; they can talk about proxy wars and reference a zillion military-industrial conspiracies, but when push comes to shove, those ideas are just a thin coat of pretentious shellack on yet another gundam animu "WHY CAN'T WE STOP FIGHTING LOOK WHAT WAR DOES TO US" plot.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Grecco on June 16, 2008, 05:05:59 PM
Does it have Metal Gear vs Metal Gear standoffs like a cheesy Gundam anime?

Because your last line reminded me of Gundam wing and the movie. Is Hiro Yui in this too?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 05:07:44 PM
So now we have reviewers critiquing reviews?  ::)
Load times, framerate drops, cut scene length, and length of single player campaign are only problems in PS3 exclusives.
What's wrong with someone calling out reviewers as paid advertisers?
And he's not even touching on load times and that stuff but on the hyperbole, go read the OP again.
I'm saying reviews in general, not this guy's BS. 1up is a pro 360 site and he should be struck by lightning for accusing of Sony moneyhats as if to say that 1up never received anything from MS. ::)

You are Zero Tolerance from gaf aren't you?

Because you sound like that tool.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:08:46 PM
if there was a nerdlinger take on mcsweeny's, i'd recommend someone smarter than me pen a dialogue between old snake and heero yui as a humor piece for it
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:12:54 PM
(re: shane bettenhausen) wait, how fucking ill-informed do you hafta be to NOT know about PMCs these days? pick up a fucking newpaper! there was a good three months where every joke in an evening show comedian's monologue referenced fucking blackwater. FIRE THIS IDIOT POST-HASTE
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: duckman2000 on June 16, 2008, 05:15:26 PM
"MGS 4 made me think about PMCs -- which, in a way, I hadn't before."

We are all ignorant to many, many things, but this is somewhat disturbing. Not only that this character has not really thought about PMCs, but that it took a video game that pushes the PMC concept to its most absurd length to make this guy actually think about the privatization of military resources and abilities.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:16:49 PM
"if it ain't inna video-ma-game, it ain't worf thinkin' about" is something i'd expect to hear from a rape-eyed trucker in the midwest, not from a neckbearded nerd working in sf
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Tieno on June 16, 2008, 05:17:21 PM
So now we have reviewers critiquing reviews?  ::)
Load times, framerate drops, cut scene length, and length of single player campaign are only problems in PS3 exclusives.
What's wrong with someone calling out reviewers as paid advertisers?
And he's not even touching on load times and that stuff but on the hyperbole, go read the OP again.
I'm saying reviews in general, not this guy's BS. 1up is a pro 360 site and he should be struck by lightning for accusing of Sony moneyhats as if to say that 1up never received anything from MS. ::)
I'm not saying he's saying they're literally taking money, just that they sound like paid advertisers. But you're one of those conspiracy mongers, so whatever
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Grecco on June 16, 2008, 05:18:29 PM
(re: shane bettenhausen) wait, how fucking ill-informed do you hafta be to NOT know about PMCs these days? pick up a fucking newpaper! there was a good three months where every joke in an evening show comedian's monologue referenced fucking blackwater. FIRE THIS IDIOT POST-HASTE

Agreed. It bothered me when i heard it. This is the mangod.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:20:34 PM
well, if i ever want to win the vociferous laudations (lol) of internet nerds, remind me to plot my game based on that heady melange of fringe wikipedia content and raw animu fanservice

i'm going to make a game based on the hermetic order of the golden dawn, starring alistair crowley as a gothic lolita

don't lie; you'd buy it

i'm looking at you, patel
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Kestastrophe on June 16, 2008, 05:22:18 PM
I'm saying reviews in general, not this guy's BS. 1up is a pro 360 site and he should be struck by lightning for accusing of Sony moneyhats as if to say that 1up never received anything from MS. ::)

Good God man. I expect that at GAF, but here?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:24:13 PM
no, they really aren't worth the effort
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Great Rumbler on June 16, 2008, 05:24:29 PM
I learned about PMCs from an episode of Law & Order.

Well, not really, but I did watch an episode about them a few months ago.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Kestastrophe on June 16, 2008, 05:27:41 PM
Just to clarify PMC is an acronym for those security companies like Blackwater that have been in the news since Iraq got occupied?

PMC = Private Military Corporation
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: demi on June 16, 2008, 05:29:03 PM
Army of Two did PMCs better

Pimp out zee AK
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: duckman2000 on June 16, 2008, 05:29:14 PM
It does make you wonder what a discussion re: international politics and armed intervention with good old Shane here would be like. In a discussion revolving around the pending declassification of documents detailing covert operations in the eastern bloc, would Shane deliver a bombshell story of when one Jack Kellar tracked a possible traitor deep behind enemy lines, or would he slyly reference the brave actions of one elite military team known as the Ghosts?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 05:31:49 PM
Fucking mercenaries. That's the subject.

All this fancy naming "PMC" is just to confuse people.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: duckman2000 on June 16, 2008, 05:33:36 PM
I thought it must have been something from the future if people havent been thinking about them yet and that I missed some new development in military stuff, turns out its just non governmental security organizations, guns for hire. How the hell is that new, this shit has been around since the stone age only to dissapear shortly between 1792/1990.

It's the fuzziness of it that has gotten people talking, I think. Whereas EO or Sandline hardly beat around the bush regarding what they did, the new model is far less blatant in presentation. Whereas EO was pretty much a bona fide mercenary company (Barlow even admits as much), the private (military) contractors of today prefer to blend in with the larger umbrella Contractor designation. And then when these contractors are suddenly in the spotlight for questionable use of force, well... it gets people wondering.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 05:34:01 PM
I'm listening to the 1upyours, the part about Shane on cut scenes. Yuck, jesus fuck, "transcending the medium" etc.

Man this guy is a fucking tool, he almost makes me ashamed of being a MGS fan.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:38:39 PM
i will say that the cutscene direction really is good, and the story is tolerable -- and i emphasize "tolerable" because to me, hideo kojima is like that goofy dungeon master who keeps retconning and making shit up as the game goes along, but who is amiable enough to encourage you to put up with his earnest shenanigans in the long pauses between dice rolls
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on June 16, 2008, 05:38:45 PM
"Oh Big Mamma!"
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:39:53 PM
then again, i'm only in act 2
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 05:44:18 PM
But MGS really is Ninja Scroll.

Personally? That's highly entertaining. The human samurai that goes againts multiple demons and a villain that shares a past with him and also possesses some sort of greater ability.

IT IS ninja scroll. In the same way that Ninja Scroll is a Fantasy/Samurai flick, MGS is a SCi Fi/Military game. Crazy action, crazy characters, and it rocks.

But when these dudes like Shane start spitting the kind of bs they often do, it makes me embarrassed.  
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 05:57:13 PM
i do adore the wacky, imaginative boss encounters -- it's why i dug 3 so much. the sorrow fight made me lol so hard, and volgin :bow2 :bow2
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 05:58:15 PM
Precisely my point.  The problem is Kojima doesn't realize that the most of fun in the game comes from the wacky bosses and the absurd setup of the thing (or he doesn't want to admit it) so he dresses it up with serious overtones.  It's like Takashi Murakami if you removed all the tongue in cheek stuff.  Most people don't watch goofy anime for the deep stories, they watch it precisely for the goofy samurai/vampire hunters/robots.

Exactly. MGS1 imo was awesome in that regards. MGS2 just complicated. MGs3 was better than 2 but i hated the setting. MGs4 has moments of greatness, but unfortunately it makes me have to cut through the bullshit.

And then you have these little punks posting on the internet about how the BB corps don't add anything to the game and etc, are you kidding me? The BB corps were awesome, so they don't have this big contribution to the convoluted story, but they give you the "moments", crazy ass characters doing awesome shit.

Seriously, it's those characters that ease some of the BS found in the main story.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: CurseoftheGods on June 16, 2008, 05:58:34 PM
prof. r. astley's musical piece "never gonna give you up" made me think about all these high-school dropouts i impregnated and abandoned without even paying for the abortion -- which, in a way, i hadn't before. the fact that astley brings up these real issues and brings them to light for people who don't really think about them... when i see "never gonna give you up" transcending the medium, pushing the envelope... when i hear people complain that there are 'too many repeats of the chorus' i think, 'you're a peasant.'

:rofl
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 16, 2008, 06:02:20 PM
Anyone that's impressed by MGS4's story is either distinguished mentally-challenged or a fanboy.  MGS4's story embarrassed me for enjoying the narrative of MGS2.  I thought Kojima was doing legitimately interesting things with the story of MGS2.  MGS4 just proves that he's a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow that got lucky once when it comes to stories.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Eric P on June 16, 2008, 06:02:41 PM
well, if i ever want to win the vociferous laudations (lol) of internet nerds, remind me to plot my game based on that heady melange of fringe wikipedia content and raw animu fanservice

i'm going to make a game based on the hermetic order of the golden dawn, starring alistair crowley as a gothic lolita

don't lie; you'd buy it

i'm looking at you, patel

name her Alley and her best friend is Maddie Blavatsky
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 16, 2008, 06:08:06 PM
2 is worth playing for just the story, but the gameplay is bad.  4 is the exact opposite--best gameplay in the series, by far the worst story.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: duckman2000 on June 16, 2008, 06:11:19 PM
I'm also a bit surprised that people are so receptive of things that are damned near hammered in. I tend to find most thoughtful the things that are delivered on the side or on the sly, so to speak. Kojima has been pushing this damned PMC military economy angle like a three-breasted whore since it was unveiled, and if anything, this has made the apathetic to the whole thing. Not the PMC deal itself, but if my first real "experience" with the PMC industry came from MGS4, I doubt I'd be all that interested in finding out more. Of course, I've had this problem with all MGS games I've played; the excruciatingly complex storytelling and the tendency of Kojima to simply over-explain things has made it somewhat inapproachable.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 16, 2008, 07:05:23 PM
Army of Two did PMCs better

Pimp out zee AK

Army of Two was embarrassing to play.  MGS4 just uses PMCs as a way to explain other forms of control and are not nearly the focus of the story.  Army of Two's story was basically cashing in on the rise of PMCs by having a story that says "Army sucks, PMCs RAWK! oh no! PMCs suck! wait, actually our PMC is cool, that one just sucked.  Oh, and this guy is The Joker for some reason."  I'm glad it has awesome segments involving two men and one parachute or else I would think that game was a total failure. Pound.

Did Ryan forget that Konami wasn't letting reviewers mention aspects of the game?



That was Konami.  I think Itagaki leaving Tecmo was reason enough to believe the the publishers don't always care about what the developers want.  Just watch the bonus blu-ray with the LE.  Kojima clearly would have "5 hours of cutscenes!" on the back of the box.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: pilonv1 on June 16, 2008, 07:37:04 PM
I like the defense for anyone criticising MGS4 or any MGS story is that "they don't get it" and can't appreciate it or it's some sort of high art that a normal fan wouldn't get. Much like the animu and japan worshippers claim they're the only ones who understand Japan.

I wonder how many of them actually enjoy MGS and only play it because if they don't it would be like admitting they're not as intune with Japan and other otaku as they thought.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on June 16, 2008, 07:58:24 PM
I like the defense for anyone criticising MGS4 or any MGS story is that "they don't get it" and can't appreciate it or it's some sort of high art that a normal fan wouldn't get. Much like the animu and japan worshippers claim they're the only ones who understand Japan.

I wonder how many of them actually enjoy MGS and only play it because if they don't it would be like admitting they're not as intune with Japan and other otaku as they thought.

I swear they come from the same cess pool that spawned Shenmue fanboys.  Same shit, different game.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 16, 2008, 08:22:36 PM
I like the defense for anyone criticising MGS4 or any MGS story is that "they don't get it" and can't appreciate it or it's some sort of high art that a normal fan wouldn't get. Much like the animu and japan worshippers claim they're the only ones who understand Japan.

I wonder how many of them actually enjoy MGS and only play it because if they don't it would be like admitting they're not as intune with Japan and other otaku as they thought.

How does MGS, a game based on western films with mostly all western characters based in areas not near eastern asia, at all equal having a hard on for Japan?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 16, 2008, 08:28:26 PM
I'm also a bit surprised that people are so receptive of things that are damned near hammered in. I tend to find most thoughtful the things that are delivered on the side or on the sly, so to speak. Kojima has been pushing this damned PMC military economy angle like a three-breasted whore since it was unveiled, and if anything, this has made the apathetic to the whole thing. Not the PMC deal itself, but if my first real "experience" with the PMC industry came from MGS4, I doubt I'd be all that interested in finding out more. Of course, I've had this problem with all MGS games I've played; the excruciatingly complex storytelling and the tendency of Kojima to simply over-explain things has made it somewhat inapproachable.

You see, what gets me is that I was expecting Kojima to try to make some sort of serious statement about PMCs.  MGS1 had a nuke/general anti-war message that while not unique, was played pretty effectively, considering the source was a video game.  MGS2 delivered a pretty spiffy narrative that riffed on living in the information age and was vaguely Baudrillardian.  MGS3 did a nice cold war, pseudo-historical thing.  MGS4 at first seems like it's going to have some sort of message about PMCs, a subject that's ripe for going over, but instead it tackles PMCs from a pure science fiction angle that doesn't really have any relevance to the real world issues of PMCs.  I know, I was probably expecting too much from a videogame, but being that Kojima delivered interesting, great for videogames, narratives with his previous games, the bar was set quite a bit high for this game.  

MGS4's story was a letdown from any perspective.  Tsk tsk Kojima.

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Sho Nuff on June 16, 2008, 08:33:16 PM
Army of Two did PMCs better

Pimp out zee AK

Beat me to it

I think Army of Two II needs diamond-crusted grenades
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 16, 2008, 08:36:46 PM
You see, what gets me is that I was expecting Kojima to try to make some sort of serious statement about PMCs.  MGS1 had a nuke/general anti-war message that while not unique, was played pretty effectively, considering the source was a video game.  MGS2 delivered a pretty spiffy narrative that riffed on living in the information age and was vaguely Baudrillardian.  MGS3 did a nice cold war, pseudo-historical thing.  MGS4 at first seems like it's going to have some sort of message about PMCs, a subject that's ripe for going over, but instead it tackles PMCs from a pure science fiction angle that doesn't really have any relevance to the real world issues of PMCs.  I know, I was probably expecting too much from a videogame, but being that Kojima delivered interesting, great for videogames, narratives with his previous games, the bar was set quite a bit high for this game. 

MGS4's story was a letdown from any perspective.  Tsk tsk Kojima.

MGS4's story was just an extension of MGS2's story and main themes.  It was just again more about control, albeit more direct instead of influence now.  I agree that there aren't as many underlying themes in this one, but unlike the previous games, this one had to wrap up the story of Solid Snake.  The closest the game gets to talking about PMC issues seriously is by saying that the people joining these PMCs don't do it for their countries, but instead as some sort of thrill/game.  The problem is that this game is the first that was a follow up/continuation to the initial story of the past game.  MGS2 didn't have a resolute end to it.  It opened with you knowing there was going to be a continuation of this story later on.  MGS1 ended film as did MG1, MG2, and MGS3 (despite PO appearing to continue the story, but MGS3's ending didn't indicate there would be a sequel).  There was too much of the Metal Gear story in the way.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 16, 2008, 08:44:14 PM
I'd probably be a LOT more forgiving of the story if it at all justified the running length of the cut scenes.  Like I said, I dug the stories of the previous games, and what with the stories being good, I didn't mind the cut scene and codec time at all.  Here, the cut scenes dragged on, and since the game was more dumb action movie than interesting narrative, it just didn't feel like the game justified multiple long chunks of exposition.  Not to mention that most of the long cut scenes involve characters dictating boring exposition to you.  That was more acceptable when the story was doing interesting things, not so much in MGS4.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Solo on June 16, 2008, 08:57:29 PM

2 is legitimately bad from a gameplay perspective though.

What is so bad about 2's gameplay? Sure, its pretty basic compared to MGS4 and other modern stealth titles, but at least the gameplay isnt utterly broken like MGS3's was.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: pilonv1 on June 16, 2008, 09:19:12 PM
But MGS4 - what the fuck is MGS4 going to do for the future of gaming?

justify ps3's existence :-*
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: fistfulofmetal on June 16, 2008, 09:19:39 PM
mgs4 is awesome.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 16, 2008, 09:21:29 PM
The problem with 2 is the fact that it relies on one offs for most of the game after the tanker, while the main gameplay mechanic (stealth) is shunted to secondary duty.  there is a lot of crappy fetch type or escort or swimming mechanics that don't work or don't augment the game at all.  Add to that the general lousiness of the bosses and you have yourself a mess.  At least with three the main point was sneaking around bad guys, not freezing c4  :-\.  Three has the issue with the survival viewer and I can see how that would piss alot of people off, but at least it goes along with the fundamental gamplay.

But you sneaked around bad guys to GET to the C4. It was just adding a "sneaking" goal for each area.

Besides, you can't play something like the extra missions in Substance and say that it's bad.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: drohne on June 16, 2008, 09:45:08 PM
mgs's narrative strengths are visual and thematic -- the actual plotting is nonsense and the actual words are inept. i don't know how much of the latter is due to translation. kojima called george lucas a genius in a recent interview, and mgs4 has an unfortunate lucas streak: it retcons too eagerly, it ties loose ends too neatly, and its explanations

a. don't really explain anything
b. rub the glamour off series mysteries -- the patriots' backstory is moronic, and i'll have to ignore it when i replay mgs2 and mgs3

mgs is fanatical about detail -- there's something autistic about this, but there's something artistic about it as well. mgs4's confrontations and action scenes have mgs3's idiosyncratic wildness, and snake's premature aging has a certain pathos -- as mgs3's relationship between snake and the boss did, and as mgs1's unintentionally hilarious death soliloquies did not. mgs2 had other things on its mind.

here's the thing about mgs: in some ways it's really crude and stupid and embarrassing, and in other ways it's
remarkably sophisticated. it's trying to do something new with it's storytelling, but it's too late in the day to do anything really new (the preceding statement is as close as i'll come to referencing postmodernism) -- and mgs is particularly burdened by the movies and books and ideas that precede it. it doesn't shy away from that burden; it tries to carry it and often stumbles. it's easier to scoff at the things it does badly than to appreciate the things it does well -- particularly if you're an internet cynic of limited intelligence who wants very badly to sound intelligent. those folks will praise something like bioshock instead, since they're insufficiently literate to know that a rejoinder to ayn rand in the year of our lord 2007 is pretty embarrassing too. good for them. fuck them.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Oblivion on June 16, 2008, 09:52:50 PM
droooooooooooooooooooooohne!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 09:59:31 PM
What's sophisticated about MGS?

The way Kojima likes to tie absurd/larger than life characters and situations with real life themes is very interesting, and it's what gives MGS charm. Solid Snake pretty much embodies this way of thinking, as he is normal inside abnormal, he is the game player in the world of MGS.

What's sophisticated about Bioshock is its ability to tell you a story you don't see, and show you a story you don't listen to. And it's just interesting as a story.

You throw a lot of big words, as if words made any difference. It's not about being an internet cynic, and there's something rather ironic about "trying to sound intelligent" and your post.

You speak a lot, but you barely say anything new, and it's no surprise how you are able to pin point flaws yet you remain vague about what it does well. Maybe you are just arguing with the self, not realizing you are addressing others, but to tell yourself to go fuck yourself seems like a pretty unnecessary thing to tell us.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on June 16, 2008, 10:02:01 PM
Is this the same Shawn Elliott who acts like his shit dont stank and that his annoying voices are actually funny?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 10:03:34 PM
Is this the same Shawn Elliott who acts like his shit dont stank and that his annoying voices are actually funny?

No, it's the other one. The one with the funny voices.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: drohne on June 16, 2008, 10:06:07 PM
yeah, i've had mgs on my mind way too much this week. i was flirting with the idea of really sitting down and writing something about it, but that can't lead anywhere, so i decided to have a little message board relapse instead
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: CurseoftheGods on June 16, 2008, 10:18:30 PM
mgs's narrative strengths are visual and thematic -- the actual plotting is nonsense and the actual words are inept. i don't know how much of the latter is due to translation. kojima called george lucas a genius in a recent interview, and mgs4 has an unfortunate lucas streak: it retcons too eagerly, it ties loose ends too neatly, and its explanations

a. don't really explain anything
b. rub the glamour off series mysteries -- the patriots' backstory is moronic, and i'll have to ignore it when i replay mgs2 and mgs3

mgs is fanatical about detail -- there's something autistic about this, but there's something artistic about it as well. mgs4's confrontations and action scenes have mgs3's idiosyncratic wildness, and snake's premature aging has a certain pathos -- as mgs3's relationship between snake and the boss did, and as mgs1's unintentionally hilarious death soliloquies did not. mgs2 had other things on its mind.

here's the thing about mgs: in some ways it's really crude and stupid and embarrassing, and in other ways it's
remarkably sophisticated. it's trying to do something new with it's storytelling, but it's too late in the day to do anything really new (the preceding statement is as close as i'll come to referencing postmodernism) -- and mgs is particularly burdened by the movies and books and ideas that precede it. it doesn't shy away from that burden; it tries to carry it and often stumbles. it's easier to scoff at the things it does badly than to appreciate the things it does well -- particularly if you're an internet cynic of limited intelligence who wants very badly to sound intelligent. those folks will praise something like bioshock instead, since they're insufficiently literate to know that a rejoinder to ayn rand in the year of our lord 2007 is pretty embarrassing too. good for them. fuck them.

Oh, my God. I love you, Drohne.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 16, 2008, 10:34:46 PM
Spoilers within, and ranting

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Zero thing really rubbed me the wrong way.  When I first heard about it, when the spoilers hit, I was kind of excited, because I mistakenly assumed that the story would be as good as previous games (I agree with drohne in that previous games always seemed pretty good about keeping their details straight--the series had good continuity, and I expected them to keep explaining things well).  So anyway, when I first heard the Zero thing, I was cool with it.  Zero was my favorite character in MGS3 and I wanted to see how they turned the personable brit into basically the big bad of the series.  And then the explanation ended up being "Well, he turned BAD!" with no real explanation.  Similar to how the explanation for Ocelot turning against Eva and Big Boss was "Well, he turned BAD!"  And Raiden?  "Well, he turned into a BADASS CYBORG NINJA.  And then he turned BACK INTO A NORMAL DUDE."  And then Big Boss? "Well, we put him back together again LIKE HUMPTY DUMPTY and now he is going to GIVE EXPOSITION AND DIE FIVE MINUTES LATER!" As long as we're not really explaining things here, I wish Snake would get a pony, too!
[close]
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Don Flamenco on June 16, 2008, 10:36:33 PM
I know criti--I mean journa--I mean the guys who get paid to write about videogames jack off any game that plays well and has some semblance of an intelligent story.  And I know there's always a Shawn Elliot to come along and play monday morning quarterback.  I know there's a shitload of truth to what Shawn Elliot is saying and I agree there's nothing redeeming about MGS4 that informs my real world experience...except maybe some curiosity about nanomachines, since they're supposedly the next world-changing leap in technology, according to some.  By "some curiosity" I mean I'll read a wiki on it, eventually.  I also know Mr. Shane  needs to pick up a newspaper some time...video games won't keep you connected buddy...it IS an escapist hobby :lol 

but why does the review reviewer always have to throw in lines like this:
Quote
The trouble, if there is any, lies in leading readers to believe that a videogame is the Second Coming...even if it is a lower-case fourth.

They say this about GTAIV, CoD4, Halo 3, NG2, DMC4, Bioshock etc. just about any AAA game--where's the secret stockpile of games that are REALLY at the pinnacle of gaming?  It's really annoying when these guys go overboard in this direction just to show their oppositional defiance.  We all have our favorite games, but when you start saying MGS4 is not hot shit, you're probably a bit jaded (I'm talking gameplay here.)
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 16, 2008, 10:41:22 PM
Quote from: drohne
it's easier to scoff at the things it does badly than to appreciate the things it does well -- particularly if you're an internet cynic of limited intelligence who wants very badly to sound intelligent

really, though, this is a non-assertion -- the same could be said of those who praise it. after all, it's easier to conflate remarkably consistent fanservice with a nuanced vision. at some point, your mgs "experience" is irrevocably tied into how much you've invested in the series as a whole.

than again, i just finished act ii, so maybe there's some greater emotional resonance that i haven't encountered. it certainly hasn't made me think, though, beyond some pretty fiercely happy thoughts about the modeling, the choreography, and the visual design in general. the laughing octopus battle was a pretty memorable boss fight!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 16, 2008, 10:44:28 PM
Yeah, before it sounds like I'm being too down on the game, I did thoroughly enjoy it, and the only reason I seem so salty about it is because the MGS series has offered some of the best narratives in gaming in the past.  This new game surprised me by delivering on the gameplay, but I can't help but be a little bummed that it fumbled on the element of the series that I enjoyed most.  It's only because of the pedigree of the series that I feel any disappointment.

Spoilers within, and ranting

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Zero thing really rubbed me the wrong way.  When I first heard about it, when the spoilers hit, I was kind of excited, because I mistakenly assumed that the story would be as good as previous games (I agree with drohne in that previous games always seemed pretty good about keeping their details straight--the series had good continuity, and I expected them to keep explaining things well).  So anyway, when I first heard the Zero thing, I was cool with it.  Zero was my favorite character in MGS3 and I wanted to see how they turned the personable brit into basically the big bad of the series.  And then the explanation ended up being "Well, he turned BAD!" with no real explanation.  Similar to how the explanation for Ocelot turning against Eva and Big Boss was "Well, he turned BAD!"  And Raiden?  "Well, he turned into a BADASS CYBORG NINJA.  And then he turned BACK INTO A NORMAL DUDE."  And then Big Boss? "Well, we put him back together again LIKE HUMPTY DUMPTY and now he is going to GIVE EXPOSITION AND DIE FIVE MINUTES LATER!" As long as we're not really explaining things here, I wish Snake would get a pony, too!
[close]
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Having Zeo as the founder wasn't the worst offender either, it was lumping in all the codec characters together as the founding members.  Remeber that girl who told you about snakebites and made godzilla references in the third game?  Well she helped found a group bent on world domination.  The kid good with electronics?  His legacy created the world superpower.  It was like Kojima had a checklist of characters to include and the game had to include every one before it would ship.
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
And as a grand finale they roll out a braindead senior citizen and MURDER HIM on screen! Because it's the right thing to do.

Really, that whole last portion of the finale, with Big Boss and Zero in the graveyard. . .I wish I turned off the system before that scene and never learned of its existence.  You'd hear much less bitching from me since some of the game's worst story transgressions come from that segment.
[close]
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: AdmiralViscen on June 16, 2008, 10:47:59 PM
You guys are beating the game already? Is it short or were you just addicted?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Solo on June 16, 2008, 10:48:31 PM
The game should have ended with the *first* ambivalent ending.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Snake cocks the pistol, puts it in his mouth, camera pans up, fade to black, *bang*, roll credits without any other wankery.
[close]
That would have sat better with me.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 16, 2008, 10:50:01 PM
You guys are beating the game already? Is it short or were you just addicted?


20 hour game. It's just one of those games, you don't let go till you finish it.

I'm at the end of act 3 on my 2nd play through already.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 16, 2008, 10:53:03 PM
I was dissapointed that they offered nothing new in the form of story or characters, they just traded on people you already knew existed and events you had already played.  It felt like a season finale instead of a brand new game.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I feel the same. Sadly the only new entry of any real substance is Drebin who just so happens to be a black plotmoving wizard.
[close]
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 16, 2008, 10:53:55 PM
I was dissapointed that they offered nothing new in the form of story or characters, they just traded on people you already knew existed and events you had already played.  It felt like a season finale instead of a brand new game.

This was something else that bugged me.  Aside from Drebin, there really weren't any new characters.  Sunny really doesn't count.  I guess this isn't really that big of a complaint.  I don't require new characters or anything to love a game.  It was just something that stood out.  
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Brehvolution on June 16, 2008, 11:35:49 PM
I know criti--I mean journa--I mean the guys who get paid to write about videogames jack off any game that plays well and has some semblance of an intelligent story.  And I know there's always a Shawn Elliot to come along and play monday morning quarterback.  I know there's a shitload of truth to what Shawn Elliot is saying and I agree there's nothing redeeming about MGS4 that informs my real world experience...except maybe some curiosity about nanomachines, since they're supposedly the next world-changing leap in technology, according to some.  By "some curiosity" I mean I'll read a wiki on it, eventually.  I also know Mr. Shane  needs to pick up a newspaper some time...video games won't keep you connected buddy...it IS an escapist hobby :lol 

but why does the review reviewer always have to throw in lines like this:
Quote
The trouble, if there is any, lies in leading readers to believe that a videogame is the Second Coming...even if it is a lower-case fourth.

They say this about GTAIV, CoD4, Halo 3, NG2, DMC4, Bioshock etc. just about any AAA game--where's the secret stockpile of games that are REALLY at the pinnacle of gaming?  It's really annoying when these guys go overboard in this direction just to show their oppositional defiance.  We all have our favorite games, but when you start saying MGS4 is not hot shit, you're probably a bit jaded (I'm talking gameplay here.)

Thank You. I couldn't convey my earlier opinion as well as this. I'm loving the game but some people stoop is much higher than others.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 16, 2008, 11:43:23 PM
Spoilers within, and ranting

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The Zero thing really rubbed me the wrong way.  When I first heard about it, when the spoilers hit, I was kind of excited, because I mistakenly assumed that the story would be as good as previous games (I agree with drohne in that previous games always seemed pretty good about keeping their details straight--the series had good continuity, and I expected them to keep explaining things well).  So anyway, when I first heard the Zero thing, I was cool with it.  Zero was my favorite character in MGS3 and I wanted to see how they turned the personable brit into basically the big bad of the series.  And then the explanation ended up being "Well, he turned BAD!" with no real explanation.  Similar to how the explanation for Ocelot turning against Eva and Big Boss was "Well, he turned BAD!"  And Raiden?  "Well, he turned into a BADASS CYBORG NINJA.  And then he turned BACK INTO A NORMAL DUDE."  And then Big Boss? "Well, we put him back together again LIKE HUMPTY DUMPTY and now he is going to GIVE EXPOSITION AND DIE FIVE MINUTES LATER!" As long as we're not really explaining things here, I wish Snake would get a pony, too!
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Having Zeo as the founder wasn't the worst offender either, it was lumping in all the codec characters together as the founding members.  Remeber that girl who told you about snakebites and made godzilla references in the third game?  Well she helped found a group bent on world domination.  The kid good with electronics?  His legacy created the world superpower.  It was like Kojima had a checklist of characters to include and the game had to include every one before it would ship.
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spoiler (click to show/hide)
And remember, Para-Medic also supervised a program in which Big Boss was cloned several times without his knowledge (involving six failed attempts [read: dead Big Boss babies] and purposefully aborted clones), a secret genetic modification program for soldiers without their consent, and a project in which a brain-dead Gray Fox was experimented upon as a guinea pig for gene therapy and hooked up to a suit that kept him a state of constant pain, murderous insanity, and living death. Then Gray Fox killed her for mercilessly torturing him for six years.

The girl who read a guidebook on animal eating and helped Big Boss heal up cuts and fractures. The one who talked about Japan and science.
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One person I know actually tried to defend this as "character development."
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 12:48:21 AM
Shawn mentions what was rubbing me up the wrong way.

We had 'expert' critique of Edge, Eurogamer and anyone who didn't go beyond 9.something.
We had questions about thier integrity, how they were just ragging on a high profile title.

And Buzz, Cack, Chob, FudgeRoof, Fugnut, Arzcandle and other weird name magazines from europe who threw out 10/10 were taken with out the reviews being read.

It's obvious why : the reviews mean nothing, the score is just a validation of these peoples belief in MGS4.

I tried to draw the PS3 fans out as to -who- was a reliable review source, but almost everyone was too balless to cough up a name (one person said Parish, but that was it).

My copy is still in transit, so obviously the definitive XF#G review has yet to happen.


Yes, all this is brand new with MGS4 and never happened before.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: drohne on June 17, 2008, 12:57:45 AM
really, though, this is a non-assertion -- the same could be said of those who praise it.

only if you suppose that mgs itself is a neutral quantity. i figure its apologists are legitimately responding to its thematic ambition and visual excellence, while its detractors are just trying to score easy points (whether you get any points for running down a game that's smarter and more talented than you is a different matter). there's no qualitative difference between the naivete that overrates mgs's animu plotting and the naivete that wants it to say something soberly 'relevant' about blackwater.

unattached thoughts:

there's a sect of nerds who can't tolerate the nerdy illiteracies of mgs...but can't even see the nerdy illiteracies of batman or planescape torment or whatever. i don't have a lot of patience for their self-satisfied disingenuous parochialism. there aren't a lot of people in The Videogame Community whose objections to mgs are founded on high aesthetic standards. YOU LIKE VIDEOGAMES

yeah, the only mgs game that i really 'think about' is mgs2 -- or no, i also think about mgs3, but i think about its aesthetics rather than its ideas. i don't think kojima 'got lucky' with mgs2 -- if he's curtailed his ambitions*, it's because of his stated belief that game development is a service industry. telling anecdote: a junior high school girl in a focus test said she would never play a 'stupid old man game,' so they replaced snake with raiden.

* his ambitions have been curtailed, but his talents have continued to develop. mgs3 is better than mgs2.

i'm actually not a classical mgs fanboy. i disliked the first game. i was ambivalent about the second game (singularly for a videogame, i think it needs to be played twice). and for whatever reason i thought the third game was the best thing i'd ever played, which made me go back and reevaluate the series. i probably started off as one of those internet scoffers -- but i was 17, so hey. i actually remember saying that ocarina of time was much better, which is sufficient evidence that i was once a cretin

i can't read the spoiler posts, cos i've just finished act 3. which actually lowered my opinion of the game on just about every level...though it has its moments.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
here's where i'm coming from, for reference: the moment where the scarabs impersonate a man in a hat and trenchcoat compensates for the stupidity of that act's explanations. not so much for its near-total lack of gameplay
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yeah, whatever. i should probably go finish mgs4

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:01:38 AM
a bunch of fancy words

i have no idea what you just said or if you insulted my mom or something but mgs2 > mgs3 is practically an objective fact
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: drohne on June 17, 2008, 01:04:57 AM
and yeah: mgs4's biggest burden is mgs. it spends so much time dredging up every mgs character and plot point ever that it can't really stand on its own. it's kind of sad that The Single Best Videogame Ever is so exclusively addressed to series fans. i love mgs, but i hope kojima follows through on his desire to drop mgs. this kind of talent needs a broader outlet
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:06:38 AM

i can't read the spoiler posts, cos i've just finished act 3. which actually lowered my opinion of the game on just about every level...though it has its moments.

Now you're getting to where my problems with the story really start showing themselves.  The story in the second half of that game was so disappointing that it had me retconning my opinion of Kojima's storytelling talent in previous games.  I still liked it, but I had difficulty reconciling that the same person that came up with something as off-kilter as MGS2 came up with something as fanservicey and ehhhh as the second half of MGS4.

To reiterate my opinion on MGS2 and 3, I think 3 is probably the objectively better total package game, but I doubt any game will ever have the impact of going into MGS2 without knowing anything about the plot for the first time.  MGS2 gets a lot of bonus points for impressing me with the narrative.  I guess, at the time, it was the first "next-gen" game for me.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 01:08:28 AM
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did you notice the scarabs were following in their suit the whole time?  i saw it once and thought I was seeing things.  i think it's the first time in a game someone has managed to fuck with me.
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mgs3>mgs2

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I saw that, went back and checked and thought it was kind of shitty the stuff just disappeared if you were close enough. I would've like to have seen an abandoned hat/coat or something instead of nothing.  It was startling at first and I thought the game glitched out and was showing where I had been hiding earlier.  :lol.
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Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:10:44 AM
what is it, unto itself, if not a neutral quantity? wait, let's not go there, because it's ayn rand territory.

that said, it could be just as conveniently argued that your history on internet message boards (about VIDEOGAMING) packed to the gills with the meandering nonsense of nerds seeking intellectual validation has ultimately spun YOUR current take on mgs4, as well. you pretty much acknowledge that! (the same, of course, could be said for me.) at this point, it's all cheap sniping, regardless of the vector, and mgs4 remains mgs4. me, i figure its more earnest apologists are reacting to the gross levels of fanservice in the game as well as the completely anticipated preference for the uniquely japanese manga/anime cliches instanced throughout the game (so far), and that its detractors are being disingenuously reductive in the name of spoiling the party.

i don't think there's any naivete at all, unless we're ONLY discussing the narrative -- because only the naive wouldn't roll their eyes at the cliches, or likewise assume the cliches comprise the whole experience. rather, i think there's a little TOO much internet experience going on, here, and that we're seeing yet another hyped game become a flashpoint for the usual imbroglio of warring agendas: sfags versus xfags; "pure" gamers versus the experiental set; anime fans versus frat boys; yadda yadda yadda. this argument, as unfortunately embodied in tom chick's clever-but-completely-irrelevant review, is about the fucking internet, and it's a shame hideo kojima didn't capitalize on that somehow like he did in mgs2.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:12:10 AM
and yeah: mgs4's biggest burden is mgs. it spends so much time dredging up every mgs character and plot point ever that it can't really stand on its own. it's kind of sad that The Single Best Videogame Ever is so exclusively addressed to series fans. i love mgs, but i hope kojima follows through on his desire to drop mgs. this kind of talent needs a broader outlet

Agreed.  MGS4 is my favorite game ever (I don't claim this a lot, last time was 10 years ago), but I totally understand my liking of the game is because I was a die hard MGS fan already.  The best stand alone MGS game is MGS3.

And I accept all the wrapping up in MGS4 because this is Kojima finishing his involvement with the series.  Even though he said MGS2, and later MGS3, were his last games, you knew he was lying.  MGS2 needed a sequel done by himm and even after MGS3s curve ball, he still needed to finish off the story from MGS2.  Let him do other things now.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:12:27 AM
You know, that first part of Act 3 is probably the only part of the game I legitimately did not like.  I'll even give the hours of scenes that much--for how pointless some of them seemed, I enjoyed watching them all (even if they are only enjoyable once).  That first part of Act 3, though, that will never be good, under any light.  Such a wasted, pretty area.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: drohne on June 17, 2008, 01:13:18 AM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
did you notice the scarabs were following in their suit the whole time?  i saw it once and thought I was seeing things.  i think it's the first time in a game someone has managed to fuck with me.
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wait, you mean during the actual level? i didn't notice, and that's AWESOME if so
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:13:52 AM
mgs3 is the only metal gear i've completed, just because it's so fucking well-paced and forces the player to use the game's mechanics in clever but completely contextual ways. also, it has the best fucking boss fights EVER.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: BlueTsunami on June 17, 2008, 01:14:43 AM
You'll weep at how many times he brings up the military industrial complex. :'(

Its almost as if every character that uses that title is saying something else but theres some filter preventing use from hearing what their really sayings. Its just.that.bad.

Quote from: Ghengis
spoiler (click to show/hide)
did you notice the scarabs were following in their suit the whole time?  i saw it once and thought I was seeing things.  i think it's the first time in a game someone has managed to fuck with me.
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I noticed it too and literally went back to check who was following me to see that nothing was there. Very creepy at the time
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Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:14:51 AM
it spends so much time dredging up every mgs character and plot point ever that it can't really stand on its own.
Except for the 2D games, because Kojima apparently hates those for some unknown reason.

Outside of, "Big Boss was in charge of Outer Heaven and Zanzibar Land, Snake beat him and Gray Fox and blew up Metal Gear," I don't think a single character or plot element of those games was ever touched on ever again.

He even had the audacity to retcon the most important NPC of the first two games (Madnar) to a hack in MGS3 (where it's revealed that Granin was the REAL inventor of the Metal Gear... uh, in the 1960's, with a design of REX with a railgun, which fucks with MGS1's story, but whatever) and is reduced to a namedrop in MGS4.


Which just reminded me of another plot hole brought on by Kojima's incessant need to "connect" things.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
When Naked Snake mentioned Granin's concept for Metal Gear to SIGINT... SIGINT responded that he heard about that idea (and LOLOLOLOL IT WAS OTACON'S DAD WHO WROTE A PAPER ON IT OMG), but that he thinks it's stupid because there's no point in a walking nuclear tank.

Yet SIGINT grows up to be the DARPA Chief, the man who overlooks a multibillion secret project... for a walking nuclear tank.

I'd also mention how the head of DARPA seems to think that planes don't have "altitude," but "attitude" in MGS3, but I think that was just another editing fuckup.
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Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:15:41 AM
MGS2 falls apart when I try to play it once I get to the bomb diffusing section.  I hate hate HATE timed segments.  And then there's the terrible underwater portion after that.  Jesus, it's amazing how high my opinion of that game is when it definitely has the worst gaming moments in the entire series.  That's the kind of bonus I'm willing to give Kojima for telling a moderately clever story.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:17:18 AM
mgs2 is totally redeemed because it insults gamers at the end for being self-absorbed.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 01:17:33 AM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
did you notice the scarabs were following in their suit the whole time?  i saw it once and thought I was seeing things.  i think it's the first time in a game someone has managed to fuck with me.
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wait, you mean during the actual level? i didn't notice, and that's AWESOME if so
Here, sir.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://i29.tinypic.com/210d6jp.jpg)
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Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:17:37 AM
You know, that first part of Act 3 is probably the only part of the game I legitimately did not like.  I'll even give the hours of scenes that much--for how pointless some of them seemed, I enjoyed watching them all (even if they are only enjoyable once).  That first part of Act 3, though, that will never be good, under any light.  Such a wasted, pretty area.

I think it was kind of cool, but it could have been handled far better.  I liked the idea of using stealth in areas outside of the battlefield.  Just stalking him or doing the whole scout thing were both really cool for me.

MGS2 falls apart when I try to play it once I get to the bomb diffusing section.  I hate hate HATE timed segments.  And then there's the terrible underwater portion after that.  Jesus, it's amazing how high my opinion of that game is when it definitely has the worst gaming moments in the entire series.  That's the kind of bonus I'm willing to give Kojima for telling a moderately clever story.

Worst part of MGS2 for me is when you snipe bomb remotes to cross a bridge.  What the hell? really? You make me get a sniper rifle to shoot conveniently placed bombs in a carnival target practice course?  At least there was a harrier battle right then.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:18:30 AM
You know, that first part of Act 3 is probably the only part of the game I legitimately did not like.  I'll even give the hours of scenes that much--for how pointless some of them seemed, I enjoyed watching them all (even if they are only enjoyable once).  That first part of Act 3, though, that will never be good, under any light.  Such a wasted, pretty area.

I think it was kind of cool, but it could have been handled far better.  I liked the idea of using stealth in areas outside of the battlefield.  Just stalking him or doing the whole scout thing were both really cool for me.

I think it would have been tolerable if it only went on for, say, one screen instead of three.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: drohne on June 17, 2008, 01:18:56 AM
rather, i think there's a little TOO much internet experience going on, here, and that we're seeing yet another hyped game become a flashpoint for the usual imbroglio of warring agendas: sfags versus xfags; "pure" gamers versus the experiental set; anime fans versus frat boys; yadda yadda yadda. this argument, as unfortunately embodied in tom chick's clever-but-completely-irrelevant review, is about the fucking internet

true. though i wish it wasn't the case. i've also been arguing about kobe bryant all week, so i've pretty well had it with arguments that are about anything and everything besides their ostensible subject
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:19:26 AM
MGS2 falls apart when I try to play it once I get to the bomb diffusing section.  I hate hate HATE timed segments.  And then there's the terrible underwater portion after that.  Jesus, it's amazing how high my opinion of that game is when it definitely has the worst gaming moments in the entire series.  That's the kind of bonus I'm willing to give Kojima for telling a moderately clever story.

Did you know that in the original plan for MGS2, Vamp (or was it Chinaman before he got axed? Can't remember) was going to summon SHARKS in that underwater section? You'd have to hit a mine on purpose to release blood, and then swim away. To distract the sharks.

Which would have made that section about twenty times worse than it already is.


Also obligatory: "WE'VE MANAGED TO AVOID DROWNING!"

mgs2 is totally redeemed because it insults gamers at the end for being self-absorbed.

That was pretty awesome.

"What, you think this is all stupid shit? Well guess what dumbasses, it's just MGS1 with a different coat of paint. Suck on that."
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:22:07 AM
Since when do vampires and chinamen have shark-summoning abilities?  HE WAS JUST MAKING SHIT UP!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:23:58 AM
Since when do vampires and chinamen have shark-summoning abilities?  HE WAS JUST MAKING SHIT UP!
You were going to fight Chinaman in that oxygenated water chamber. His dragon tattoo would come to life and swim around in the water and attack you.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:24:15 AM
Since when do vampires and chinamen have shark-summoning abilities?  HE WAS JUST MAKING SHIT UP!

Yeah, fucking awesome shit.

I mean, Laughing Octopus has octocamo, yet there is no practical use BECAUSE SHE HAS FUCKING TENTACLES COMING OUT OF HER HEAD!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:25:30 AM
WHY DOES A FAT MAN NEED ROLLERSKATES TO SET BOMBS
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:26:07 AM
i am sad that they retconned out the freaky boss powers as midichloriansnanomachines

HIDEO LUCAS CONFIRMED

FANS NEED CANON
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:26:13 AM
I also love how Otacon had to invent steal OctoCamo, despite the fact that he already invented INVISIBILITY CAMO nine years beforehand.

i am sad that they retconned out the freaky boss powers as midichloriansnanomachines

Except for the fact that Vamp was still able to jump five stories even after you injected him.
Or how he could run on water.
Or Fortune's missile-diverting at the very end of MGS2.
Or Psycho Mantis.
Or Vulcan Raven.
Or the Pain's COVERED IN BEEEEEEEEEEES.
Or the Sorrow, the psychic ghost who can talk to ghosts and summon ghosts.


Oh, but a vampire and a ghost arm? That's just too wacky, nanomachine that shit up.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Scurvy Stan on June 17, 2008, 01:26:33 AM
VIDEOS GAMES! THEY'RE LIKE MOVIES YOU CONTROL!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:27:04 AM
Since when do vampires and chinamen have shark-summoning abilities?  HE WAS JUST MAKING SHIT UP!

Yeah, fucking awesome shit.

I mean, Laughing Octopus has octocamo, yet there is no practical use BECAUSE SHE HAS FUCKING TENTACLES COMING OUT OF HER HEAD!

But at least that's grounded in technology!  Chinamen summoning sharks--that's not even based on a crude racial stereotype or anything.  You just can't make up racial abilities for people.  I do applaud Kojima's combination of the gun-toting black man and the magical negro archetypes, though.  That's groundbreaking.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: BlueTsunami on June 17, 2008, 01:27:08 AM
Did anyone else cringe at (DON'T READ THIS DRONE) *Its about the ending

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The dude Snakes meets up with dieing (don't want to name him incase someone hovers over the spoiler)? And by dieing I mean almost dieing about 20 different times during that whole freakin scene? He spouts out some explanation for one important story aspect, flails about, gets better, then spouts another story about The Patriots, flails again, THEN TALKS SOME MO'. It was so ridiculous, I actually said to myself "Just die already!"
[close]
:lol
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 01:29:04 AM
i am sad that they retconned out the freaky boss powers as midichloriansnanomachines

HIDEO LUCAS CONFIRMED

FANS NEED CANON

I hated that. The supernatural elements of the previous iterations were some of my favorite parts. Psycho Mantis was this 4th wall breaking freak, Vamp was this bizarre force of nature compared to Snake and Raiden, and the Sorrow was great as well.

:piss nanomachines :piss2
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:29:43 AM
Did anyone else cringe at (DON'T READ THIS DRONE) *Its about the ending

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The dude Snakes meets up with dieing (don't want to name him incase someone hovers over the spoiler)? And by dieing I mean almost dieing about 20 different times during that whole freakin scene? He spouts out some explanation for one important story aspect, flails about, gets better, then spouts another story about The Patriots, flails again, THEN TALKS SOME MO'. It was so ridiculous, I actually said to myself "Just die already!"
[close]
:lol

Oh god

spoiler (click to show/hide)
That scene so had me rolling my eyes.  After giving succulent fan service for 15 hours, what's the only way to top it?  Bring the Mythical Figure at the heart of the entire series back to life!  But he isn't even brought back for a meaningful story reason.  He just kind of shows up and talks for a bit, then dies again/
[close]
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:30:20 AM
The Pain used pheromones, and The Sorrow could have been a schizophrenic break, since Naked Snake is the only person who ever saw him. I am at a loss to explain Volgin's lightning bolts, though. KUWABARA, KUWABARA.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:31:25 AM
I do applaud Kojima's combination of the gun-toting black man and the magical negro archetypes, though.  That's groundbreaking.

Not to mention how he actually made it so that the two intelligent scientific black people in the universe were actually the same person. (Because there can't be more than one, you know).

Did anyone else cringe at (DON'T READ THIS DRONE) *Its about the ending

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The dude Snakes meets up with dieing (don't want to name him incase someone hovers over the spoiler)? And by dieing I mean almost dieing about 20 different times during that whole freakin scene? He spouts out some explanation for one important story aspect, flails about, gets better, then spouts another story about The Patriots, flails again, THEN TALKS SOME MO'. It was so ridiculous, I actually said to myself "Just die already!"
[close]
:lol

Oh god

spoiler (click to show/hide)
That scene so had me rolling my eyes.  After giving succulent fan service for 15 hours, what's the only way to top it?  Bring the Mythical Figure at the heart of the entire series back to life!  But he isn't even brought back for a meaningful story reason.  He just kind of shows up and talks for a bit, then dies again/
[close]

God, I hated that. It'd be like if Jesus returned for the Second Coming at the end of Revelations, only to die again and say, "Just be cool dawgs, that's all that matters."



The Pain used pheromones, and The Sorrow could have been a schizophrenic break, since Naked Snake is the only person who ever saw him. I am at a loss to explain Volgin's lightning bolts, though. KUWABARA, KUWABARA.

That WAS strange how Volgin just randomly blurted out, "I CARRY 10,000 VOLTS IN MY BODY," yet nobody even blinks an eye or bothers to ask.

At least the Pain makes sense: nobody asked because it's probably rude to ask a man covered in bees, WHY he's covered in bees.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 01:32:40 AM
The Pain used pheromones, and The Sorrow could have been a schizophrenic break, since Naked Snake is the only person who ever saw him. I am at a loss to explain Volgin's lightning bolts, though.
What about Gene and Null? Why does no one care about PO?  :gloomy
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: BlueTsunami on June 17, 2008, 01:33:36 AM
Did anyone else cringe at (DON'T READ THIS DRONE) *Its about the ending

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The dude Snakes meets up with dieing (don't want to name him incase someone hovers over the spoiler)? And by dieing I mean almost dieing about 20 different times during that whole freakin scene? He spouts out some explanation for one important story aspect, flails about, gets better, then spouts another story about The Patriots, flails again, THEN TALKS SOME MO'. It was so ridiculous, I actually said to myself "Just die already!"
[close]
:lol

Oh god

spoiler (click to show/hide)
That scene so had me rolling my eyes.  After giving succulent fan service for 15 hours, what's the only way to top it?  Bring the Mythical Figure at the heart of the entire series back to life!  But he isn't even brought back for a meaningful story reason.  He just kind of shows up and talks for a bit, then dies again/
[close]

I actually think Kojima must have been tired of hearing all the fans chant about wanting to get everything cleared up or something. Or maybe this is Kojima when hes asked to tie everything together.

On another note, Kojima is definitely at his best when hes not taking the story seriously. He can be heavy handed at times but in the past games theres moments where he allows you as a gamer to step back and not get all serious business about shit. This game was somber throughout the whole thing with some funny gags thrown in.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:34:51 AM
Re: nanomachines and powers

spoiler (click to show/hide)
They don't retcon everyone's powers into being nanomachines/whatever.  They really only do that with Vamp.  The don't mention any of the Cobra Unit or Psycho Mantis or anyone.
[close]

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:35:58 AM
i like volgin the best, myself. and the pyromaniac cosmonaut who was just a little TOO full of stars. oh, mgs3.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:36:40 AM
No way, dude.  The guy that barks at you and shoots bees out of his mouth was the best.  He was based off a simpsons gag!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 01:37:53 AM
I do applaud Kojima's combination of the gun-toting black man and the magical negro archetypes, though.  That's groundbreaking.

Not to mention how he actually made it so that the two intelligent scientific black people in the universe were actually the same person. (Because there can't be more than one, you know).

Did anyone else cringe at (DON'T READ THIS DRONE) *Its about the ending

spoiler (click to show/hide)
The dude Snakes meets up with dieing (don't want to name him incase someone hovers over the spoiler)? And by dieing I mean almost dieing about 20 different times during that whole freakin scene? He spouts out some explanation for one important story aspect, flails about, gets better, then spouts another story about The Patriots, flails again, THEN TALKS SOME MO'. It was so ridiculous, I actually said to myself "Just die already!"
[close]
:lol

Oh god

spoiler (click to show/hide)
That scene so had me rolling my eyes.  After giving succulent fan service for 15 hours, what's the only way to top it?  Bring the Mythical Figure at the heart of the entire series back to life!  But he isn't even brought back for a meaningful story reason.  He just kind of shows up and talks for a bit, then dies again/
[close]

God, I hated that. It'd be like if Jesus returned for the Second Coming at the end of Revelations, only to die again and say, "Just be cool dawgs, that's all that matters."



The Pain used pheromones, and The Sorrow could have been a schizophrenic break, since Naked Snake is the only person who ever saw him. I am at a loss to explain Volgin's lightning bolts, though. KUWABARA, KUWABARA.

That WAS strange how Volgin just randomly blurted out, "I CARRY 10,000 VOLTS IN MY BODY," yet nobody even blinks an eye or bothers to ask.

At least the Pain makes sense: nobody asked because it's probably rude to ask a man covered in bees, WHY he's covered in bees.

But Jesus does! He freaking does! In Luke, he stalks some poor traveler dudes on the road to some shittown and then once they finally realize it's Jesus, he freaking dies again! BE COOL DUDES

I'm out of retirement.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:38:11 AM
Actually, that's another thing about The Cobras. They fought in WWII, right? And they were at Normandy?

I simply can't imagine the reaction of either side's forces when they saw a spider-vampire, a spirit medium, a flamethrower dude (he obviously didn't have his space suit yet), a 100 year old plant-man with bugged out eyes and a parrot, a pregnant woman, and a man covered in bees on the front lines. How do you react to that?

I see Tom Hanks throwing grenades on Omaha Beach, and suddenly he sees a man shooting bees from his mouth while an invisible spider-monkey Count Chocula shoots poison crossbow bolts.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:39:02 AM
AND a guy who can dislocate every limb in his body yet continue to exert complete muscle action

edit: oops, you mentioned him
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:40:00 AM
About the ending

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Even though I thought it lasted too long, I am glad they did the post credit ending with Big Boss.  When I saw Big Boss' name credit roll up, I actually leaned out of my chair saying "no fucking way!" and when the cut scene started rolling I was gitty.  The voice and model of Big Boss were extraordinary, as was the music used.  While it did last too long, some scenes of it were great.  Big Boss CQCing Snake only to give him a hug and telling him to "let it go" was really well done.  His last line also was fantastic.
[close]
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:40:32 AM
AND a guy who can dislocate every limb in his body yet continue to exert complete muscle action

edit: oops, you mentioned him

Decoy Octopus could do that too! That's why they called him Octopus. He could fit into small spaces and change his tolerances for hot and cold.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:40:45 AM
Actually, that's another thing about The Cobras. They fought in WWII, right? And they were at Normandy?

I simply can't imagine the reaction of either side's forces when they saw a spider-vampire, a spirit medium, a flamethrower dude (he obviously didn't have his space suit yet), a 100 year old plant-man with bugged out eyes and a parrot, a pregnant woman, and a man covered in bees on the front lines. How do you react to that?

Part of the charm of MGS3 for me was that it appeared to be telling a relatively straightforward Cold War story, even including historical facts and voiceovers from THE PRESIDENT and KHRUSHCHEV but there just happened to be 200 year old snipers and bee men there, too.  I mean, a BEE MAN, what the hell, it's not something even approaching what could be considered a feasible superpower!  
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 01:41:02 AM
I want his jacket. That overcoat was badass.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Jabberwocky on June 17, 2008, 01:41:34 AM
I didn't realize up until a few seconds ago that MGS4 got a perfect 10 on IGN.

First GTA4, now this?

Whatever I guess, opinions are like assholes after all...
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:41:44 AM
tvc: that's what i dug about it, too, and helped me overlook the endless menu selection hijinks
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:42:29 AM
I want his jacket. That overcoat was badass.

I would wear it in the summer if I had one.

and your avatar over here is better than the one over there.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:42:57 AM
Actually, that's another thing about The Cobras. They fought in WWII, right? And they were at Normandy?

I simply can't imagine the reaction of either side's forces when they saw a spider-vampire, a spirit medium, a flamethrower dude (he obviously didn't have his space suit yet), a 100 year old plant-man with bugged out eyes and a parrot, a pregnant woman, and a man covered in bees on the front lines. How do you react to that?

Part of the charm of MGS3 for me was that it appeared to be telling a relatively straightforward Cold War story, even including historical facts and voiceovers from THE PRESIDENT and KHRUSHCHEV but there just happened to be 200 year old snipers and bee men there, too.  I mean, a BEE MAN, what the hell, it's not something even approaching what could be considered a feasible superpower!  

At least they went the full mile and actually made them EXPLODE when you killed them.

"Yo Snake, I'M COVERED IN BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEES"

(one boss fight later)

"OH GOD IT HURTS. BECAUSE I'M COVERED IN BEES. (explodes)"
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:43:09 AM
It's similar to the reason I love Fat Guy on Rollerblades that Loves Bombs in MGS2.  The concept is too ridiculous to not love.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 01:43:59 AM
I want his jacket. That overcoat was badass.

I would wear it in the summer if I had one.

and your avatar over here is better than the one over there.

I was on an FFXII kick two weeks ago. It's time to change anyway.

But Otacon's too. Superbadass. I have a trench coat, but it makes me look Amish.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: BlueTsunami on June 17, 2008, 01:45:08 AM
Don't you get Beemans camo which gives you power over bees? Thats MGS in a nutshell
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:45:14 AM
The only boss I really did hate was Fortune.  Every time I watch one of those cut scenes with her saying "I still have to life this cursed life.  Why can't anyone kill me!" I am just waiting for Raiden to shout out "bitch! just fucking off yourself already or let me stab you with a knife!"
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 01:46:10 AM
i hated her because you didn't even get to legitimately fight her
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Fragamemnon on June 17, 2008, 01:46:42 AM
wb y2kev!  :)

Crushed-I know that there were very few African-American battalion were involved in the Normandy invasion and operations up through the shore landingas to the collapse of the Falaise pocket (Operation Cobra). They were generally segregated from white soldiers and mostly played a key role in logistics-the "Red Ball Express" was run largely by African-Americans.


As for the unit "the cobras", never head of them.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 01:48:14 AM
As for the unit "the cobras", never head of them.
That was the name of the boss unit from MGS3. A lot of the game was inserting stuff into history for the sake of the story.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:48:55 AM
I liked Fortune.  Both her and Olga I wish they kept around.  I think they both could have been put to good use in further games.  Olga was fuck hot, too.

If I could go into fanfic territory, my dream MGS2 sequel would involve Snake and Raiden tracking down the Patriots by using Olga as a connection, since she must have some connection what with their kid and all.  You could have had Snake/Raiden/Olga vs The Patriots vs Ocelot.  And I would find a way to bring Zero back.  Just for the codec conversations.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: CajoleJuice on June 17, 2008, 01:49:13 AM
All I've gotten from this discussion is:

I guess I should play MGS3.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: BlueTsunami on June 17, 2008, 01:49:42 AM
Also, more Kojima wackiness in MGS4 (this is about one of the special weapons)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Appearently the 1,000,000 Drebin Point weapons has a possability of summoning a Tornado when you shoot it. hahahah what the fuck
[close]

I'm totally buying it when its on Sale
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:49:53 AM
That was the name of the boss unit from MGS3. A lot of the game was inserting stuff into history for the sake of the story.

All that stuff was real.  Just because media covered it differently makes you believe it didn't happen.  And 6 black guys raised the flag in Iwo Jima.  History is wrong, dammit!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 01:51:12 AM
That was the name of the boss unit from MGS3. A lot of the game was inserting stuff into history for the sake of the story.

All that stuff was real.  Just because media covered it differently makes you believe it didn't happen.  And 6 black guys raised the flag in Iwo Jima.  History is wrong, dammit!

I wish.  :-\
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 01:51:45 AM
Does anyone else think Elliott's got to be like the most hated man in the room at gaming conventions and trade shows? He's publicly (and justifiably) called out a number of figures in the industry (Jeff Gerstmann just last week) for being shitty and manbabbyish. I happen to like Shawn a lot and agree with a lot of what he says, but at the same time I understand that he often seems to miss the forest for the trees in a Chickish fashion. Pulling quotes from message boards to make fun of on your blog is just going for low-hanging fruit.

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:51:50 AM
I liked Fortune.  Both her and Olga I wish they kept around.  I think they both could have been put to good use in further games.  Olga was fuck hot, too.

If I could go into fanfic territory, my dream MGS2 sequel would involve Snake and Raiden tracking down the Patriots by using Olga as a connection, since she must have some connection what with their kid and all.  You could have had Snake/Raiden/Olga vs The Patriots vs Ocelot.  And I would find a way to bring Zero back.  Just for the codec conversations.

Olga was cool.  Armpit hair :heartbeat

and I still think that there will be a game set between MGS2 and 4, although it won't play out how you want it to be.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 01:53:03 AM
It's similar to the reason I love Fat Guy on Rollerblades that Loves Bombs in MGS2.  The concept is too ridiculous to not love.
Ah yes, Fatman. Drinking his wine and talking about his delicate little hands. And his obnoxious Brooklyn accent.

Olga was fuck hot, too.

Until she lifted her arms.

(http://i31.tinypic.com/4sfyc7.jpg)

But then you got to hump her body. :hump
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 01:53:45 AM
When Naomi says that Olga was beautiful I lol'd.

edit: Oh and wtf at calling out Ryan Payton. Like he needs to schill to a hardcore audience of 55,000. I should disclose here that Ryan Payton is awesome and once sent me a poster!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:54:33 AM
I liked Olga :(  She's one of my favorite characters in the series.  And I do think she's hot, stubble and all.  I think they should have kept her around.  Since she was playing more than one side in the game, she would have been a useful character for tying story threads together in a sequel, and characters with complicated allegiances are basically always more interesting than cut and dry good or bad guys.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:55:07 AM
Does anyone else think Elliott's got to be like the most hated man in the room at gaming conventions and trade shows? He's publicly (and justifiably) called out a number of figures in the industry (Jeff Gerstmann just last week) for being shitty and manbabbyish. I happen to like Shawn a lot and agree with a lot of what he says, but at the same time I understand that he often seems to miss the forest for the trees in a Chickish fashion. Pulling quotes from message boards to make fun of on your blog is just going for low-hanging fruit.

What did he say about Gerstmann? I heard GFW last week, but I must have missed it since I was playing MGO at the same time.  Was it about how he was crazy for thinking CoD4 was goty?

And yeah, most people don't like being told that they are ruining all legibility when it comes to this specific field of journalism (Game journalism, lol...yeah yeah).  I mean, their jobs are simple right now, praise a game, slap on a number, get swag.  It would suck if they needed to put in more effort.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: CajoleJuice on June 17, 2008, 01:56:27 AM
When Naomi says that Olga was beautiful I lol'd.

edit: Oh and wtf at calling out Ryan Payton. Like he needs to schill to a hardcore audience of 55,000. I should disclose here that Ryan Payton is awesome and once sent me a poster!

What was it?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 01:57:55 AM
Does anyone else think Elliott's got to be like the most hated man in the room at gaming conventions and trade shows? He's publicly (and justifiably) called out a number of figures in the industry (Jeff Gerstmann just last week) for being shitty and manbabbyish. I happen to like Shawn a lot and agree with a lot of what he says, but at the same time I understand that he often seems to miss the forest for the trees in a Chickish fashion. Pulling quotes from message boards to make fun of on your blog is just going for low-hanging fruit.

What did he say about Gerstmann? I heard GFW last week, but I must have missed it since I was playing MGO at the same time.  Was it about how he was crazy for thinking CoD4 was goty?

And yeah, most people don't like being told that they are ruining all legibility when it comes to this specific field of journalism (Game journalism, lol...yeah yeah).  I mean, their jobs are simple right now, praise a game, slap on a number, get swag.  It would suck if they needed to put in more effort.

It was just an attack on his philosophy of reviewing-- pretty scathing too, IMO. Basically, Gerstmann believes it's his job to "save people money," which is something that Shawn finds pretty problematic. I totally agree with him, btw, Gerstmann is shit. It's unfortunate Gerstmanngate glorified the dude and made him into some paragon of honesty and purity....because he sucks.

When Naomi says that Olga was beautiful I lol'd.

edit: Oh and wtf at calling out Ryan Payton. Like he needs to schill to a hardcore audience of 55,000. I should disclose here that Ryan Payton is awesome and once sent me a poster!

What was it?

A portable ops poster. I posted that I really liked it and he PMed me for my address and in a few days there was a poster waiting for me. It's hanging on my wall now.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:58:08 AM
When Naomi says that Olga was beautiful I lol'd.

edit: Oh and wtf at calling out Ryan Payton. Like he needs to schill to a hardcore audience of 55,000. I should disclose here that Ryan Payton is awesome and once sent me a poster!

I saw a documentary on Ryan Payton.  His dad has a rockin' mustache.

I liked Olga :(  She's one of my favorite characters in the series.  And I do think she's hot, stubble and all.  I think they should have kept her around.  Since she was playing more than one side in the game, she would have been a useful character for tying story threads together in a sequel, and characters with complicated allegiances are basically always more interesting than cut and dry good or bad guys.

I will say that she gets hot once her hair grew out.

And it is awkward enough talking about polygons being hot, I'm just saying that if there was a real woman based after her, then hot damn.  Women in MGS4 do look really good also.  Team Ninja can learn a thing or two...oh wait, not anymore.

It was just an attack on his philosophy of reviewing-- pretty scathing too, IMO. Basically, Gerstmann believes it's his job to "save people money," which is something that Shawn finds pretty problematic. I totally agree with him, btw, Gerstmann is shit. It's unfortunate Gerstmanngate glorified the dude and made him into some paragon of honesty and purity....because he sucks.

I may have to re-listen to it.  I thought the whole deal with Gerstmann getting put on this podium after his ass got sacked was bullshit.  He is the Rodney King of video games.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 01:59:47 AM
(http://www.youbuynow.com/img/items/111939444328113100.jpg)

(http://img134.imageshack.us/img134/7067/429pxolgagurlukovich1zs.jpg)

I would hit it.  I bet she could beat my ass.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: CajoleJuice on June 17, 2008, 02:00:05 AM
A portable ops poster. I posted that I really liked it and he PMed me for my address and in a few days there was a poster waiting for me. It's hanging on my wall now.

Oh, he posts on GAF, like the rest of 1up?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:00:39 AM
A portable ops poster. I posted that I really liked it and he PMed me for my address and in a few days there was a poster waiting for me. It's hanging on my wall now.

Oh, he posts on GAF, like the rest of 1up?

Ryan Payton is novery on gaf....he works for Kojima Productions, not 1up.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: CajoleJuice on June 17, 2008, 02:01:47 AM
Oh. I don't follow all this crap.

Maybe that was in this thread or something, but bah.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 02:02:27 AM
I would hit it.  I bet she could beat my ass.

About that.  Meryl is built in MGS4.  She could kill someone with her shoulder.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 02:03:27 AM
But Meryl has low standards.  I bet she is unclean.  She let Johnny fuck her even after he shit his goddamned pants.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:05:29 AM
I don't think Meryl even has a vagina. When you first see her in MGS1, she's giving herself a blowjob.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 02:07:39 AM
Meryl just has a giant clit is all.

And Johnny looks like a champ.  He cold bed Mei Ling while Meryl is washing his poo stained pants.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:09:11 AM
sorry drohne don't read this page  :'( kojima romcom spoilerz abound

edit: HOW DARE THEY DECHINAFY MEI LING!!!! First of all, her facial structure is much more WHITE WOMAN, and her HORRIFICALLY BAD accent is GONE. UNACCEPTABLE!!!
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 02:11:24 AM
But Meryl has low standards.  I bet she is unclean.  She let Johnny fuck her even after he shit his goddamned pants.
Even after Johnny guarded her prison cell and called her built, after she beat up Johnny, stole his clothes, and he called her a bitch.

That's gotta be awkward if she ever figures out that he's the same guy.

PS: look at this it's cute and heart-warming
spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://i26.tinypic.com/atlsma.jpg)
(http://i25.tinypic.com/1zx49ec.jpg)
(http://i28.tinypic.com/2iijwxe.jpg)
(http://i30.tinypic.com/2lwlmdg.jpg)
[close]


sorry drohne don't read this page  :'( kojima romcom spoilerz abound

edit: HOW DARE THEY DECHINAFY MEI LING!!!! First of all, her facial structure is much more WHITE WOMAN, and her HORRIFICALLY BAD accent is GONE. UNACCEPTABLE!!!

She was born and raised in America. That's why they removed her accent after MGS2. Because she had no reason to have an accent at all.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 02:11:27 AM
i hate the faggoty gaf term "kojipro" for kojima productions
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:12:58 AM

She was born and raised in America. That's why they removed her accent after MGS2. Because she had no reason to have an accent at all.

So now we're going for REALISM? BRING BACK STEREOTYPICAL ACCENT

also bring back jennifer hale's bastila voice. why is THAT gone wtf.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 02:13:28 AM
i hate the faggoty gaf term "kojipro" for kojima productions

I think Ryan himself calls it KojiPro.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Van Cruncheon on June 17, 2008, 02:13:41 AM
he is a taco, then
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 02:13:56 AM
sorry drohne don't read this page  :'( kojima romcom spoilerz abound

edit: HOW DARE THEY DECHINAFY MEI LING!!!! First of all, her facial structure is much more WHITE WOMAN, and her HORRIFICALLY BAD accent is GONE. UNACCEPTABLE!!!

I also disliked the change in Naomi's accent.  I think that first happened in Twin Snakes though, so I can't blame 4 for that.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:14:55 AM
sorry drohne don't read this page  :'( kojima romcom spoilerz abound

edit: HOW DARE THEY DECHINAFY MEI LING!!!! First of all, her facial structure is much more WHITE WOMAN, and her HORRIFICALLY BAD accent is GONE. UNACCEPTABLE!!!

I also disliked the change in Naomi's accent.  I think that first happened in Twin Snakes though, so I can't blame 4 for that.

Both Naomi's and Mei Ling's accent were gone in TS. I can't remember in Natasha's was still in though. Crushed probably remembers.

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 02:15:44 AM
i hate the faggoty gaf term "kojipro" for kojima productions

I used that term twice, but that was because of the podcast.

And Mei Ling losing the accent for GREAT ass is worth it.  Naomi looking hers for breasts was also worth it.

Why wasn't Natasha in MGS4? she was cool.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 02:16:18 AM
Yeah, I can't understand why they changed Naomi's accent. Then again, Hale just sounded REALLY bored in TTS, like she just wanted to read the lines again and get her check.

PS: those screens of olga's death reminded me: why does nobody in mgs2 seemingly recognize the fucking former president
also, why did nobody notice that the president at the time (when he was president) looked exactly like big boss

EDIT: Yes, Nastasha's was gone. Though Nastasha was pretty useless except for her hilarious cardboard box history lesson and "SHOVE A STEENGER OP HEES BOTT."
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:18:25 AM
i hate the faggoty gaf term "kojipro" for kojima productions

I used that term twice, but that was because of the podcast.

And Mei Ling losing the accent for GREAT ass is worth it.  Naomi looking hers for breasts was also worth it.

Why wasn't Natasha in MGS4? she was cool.

because if they brought Natasha back, kojima would tie her in to the main story in some ridiculous way and even more people would bitch!

though honestly, outside of grey fox, i can't really think of anyone in the original games that really need "updates" besides maybe madnar. not like there is a ton of text developing the informants or anything.

btw jeremy parish sucks too. whining about japanese actress motion capture? I like jeremy but wtf
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: BlueTsunami on June 17, 2008, 02:19:49 AM
Jesus, Crushed is like the human personification of a Wiki for a videogame. I :bow to your MGS knowledge
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:20:29 AM
Jennifer Hale's voice  :bow2
Jennifer hale  :-X
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 02:20:47 AM
Crushed, stop trying to use logic for everything.  Clearly Solidus was clean shaved when he president.

and yeah, Parish about the Japanese motion capture actresses thing was really stupid.  Meryl doesn't do it.  Mei Ling doesn't do it.  The two characters that do actually have reasons.  Sunny is a social misfit and Naomi had a lot of plans in motion.  It makes sense for them to act nervous.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:21:37 AM
NO HE HAS SEEN A LOT OF J-DRAMA AND HE KNOWS HOW JAPANESE ACTRESSES ACT

ALSO SUNNY IS NOT distinguished mentally-challenged THE JAPANESE ACTRESS IS USING A LOT OF CULTURALLY SENSITIVE MOTIONS OUT OF CONTEXT AND IT JUST DOESNT WORK

edit: My biggest disappointment with MGS4-- and I admit that there are basically none for me, I loved it to pieces-- is that they completely gloss over Sunny's entire, you know, life. I think this is intentional (MGR), but I can't believe Kojima didn't say ANYTHING about Sunny's arrival on the scene. Total bitch move.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 02:24:39 AM
Crushed, stop trying to use logic for everything.  Clearly Solidus was clean shaved when he president.
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't overestimate the average American's intelligence in the MGS universe. We're talking about the same game where a bunch of businessman just show up out of nowhere walking around the crashed Arsenal Gear, ignoring the sword wielding girlyman in a ridged leotard and the mulleted man who looks like a terrorist. Oh, and Cardboard Cutout Vamp. They just walk on past him without a second thought.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: demi on June 17, 2008, 02:25:48 AM
Damn this thread is still going on? MGS4 isn't that important.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 02:28:05 AM
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't overestimate the average American's intelligence in the MGS universe. We're talking about the same game where a bunch of businessman just show up out of nowhere walking around the crashed Arsenal Gear, ignoring the sword wielding girlyman in a ridged leotard and the mulleted man who looks like a terrorist. Oh, and Cardboard Cutout Vamp. They just walk on past him without a second thought.

They aren't that stupid.  The book about Shadow Moses was a best seller! So clearly they all like good literature.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: y2kev on June 17, 2008, 02:28:58 AM
I'm sure they were all horrified of Arsenal Colon in the cutscenes that were removed from MGS2. :\
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: bork on June 17, 2008, 02:29:58 AM
Didn't Ryan Paton work at 1up before going to Kojima Productions?

Yeah, I can't understand why they changed Naomi's accent. Then again, Hale just sounded REALLY bored in TTS, like she just wanted to read the lines again and get her check.

Maybe it changed because of NANO-BOTS.  In fact, "nano-bots" can answer just about any Metal Gear-related question!

(http://PS: those screens of olga's death reminded me: why does nobody in mgs2 seemingly recognize the fucking former president)

Nano-bots.

(http://also, why did nobody notice that the president at the time (when he [i]was[/i] president) looked exactly like big boss)

Nano...

...bots.

Damn this thread is still going on? MGS4 isn't that important.

It's because of nano-bots.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Crushed on June 17, 2008, 02:31:03 AM
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't overestimate the average American's intelligence in the MGS universe. We're talking about the same game where a bunch of businessman just show up out of nowhere walking around the crashed Arsenal Gear, ignoring the sword wielding girlyman in a ridged leotard and the mulleted man who looks like a terrorist. Oh, and Cardboard Cutout Vamp. They just walk on past him without a second thought.

They aren't that stupid.  The book about Shadow Moses was a best seller! So clearly they all like good literature.
Yet the Secret Service ex-husband of that book's author cannot recognize the man he protected with his life four years beforehand.

"Hi Richard, it's me, your old boss."
"...SOLID SNAKE!??!"
"Uh sure let's go with that."
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: bork on June 17, 2008, 02:34:47 AM
I liked Olga :(  She's one of my favorite characters in the series.  And I do think she's hot, stubble and all.  I think they should have kept her around.  Since she was playing more than one side in the game, she would have been a useful character for tying story threads together in a sequel, and characters with complicated allegiances are basically always more interesting than cut and dry good or bad guys.

Isn't this like every MGS character?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Oblivion on June 17, 2008, 03:11:14 AM
I could expect a thread that goes beyond 2 pages discussing the intricacies of a MGS story on GAF, but EB?!

Seems EB has become its own worst enemy.  :'(
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 03:43:13 AM
Given how the game is broken up, I don't see why it couldn't be on the 360 at this point.  The gamer in me was disappointed by the act structure while the mgs fanboy was delighted.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: MCD on June 17, 2008, 03:47:51 AM
i am in act 3 and so far, all the cutscenes are realtime.

it can be done with ease on the 360 but some stuff like the ads should be removed.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 03:53:18 AM
Quote
Bullshit. MGS4 isn't on the 360....

... yet.

i assume they want to keep the X360 60fps original demo engine that's running on a real gpu quiet for at least 6 months.



It should already be on the 360. It's going to sell under expectation on the PS3 and by then nobody will give a shit.

First week sales are in from Japan and its selling consistently with the other entries in the series.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 04:15:04 AM
Sales crap people shouldn't have to read:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Well like most games it will of course be frontloaded. The series consistently sells ~800k in Japan per iteration from what I've been told so we'll see.
I could see it breaking 1M in NA though which all of 3-4 games have done so far.


Mind you, I'm not arguing that it shouldn't be on the 360, it should. I just don't think its going to underperform as much as people (myself included) initially thought.  We can agree to disagree on expectations though. Let's not shit up this board anymore with this talk either.
[close]
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Sho Nuff on June 17, 2008, 05:51:28 AM
I don't think there's enough PS3's out there that they can turn a profit with a single SKU.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Eric P on June 17, 2008, 07:42:53 AM
well this thread is kind of impressive.

my favorite MGS is MGS:Twin Snakes and I didn't even beat that.

My sole reason for playing that game was for the cut scenes from the director of Versus.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on June 17, 2008, 08:12:18 AM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
did you notice the scarabs were following in their suit the whole time?  i saw it once and thought I was seeing things.  i think it's the first time in a game someone has managed to fuck with me.
[close]

wait, you mean during the actual level? i didn't notice, and that's AWESOME if so
Here, sir.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://i29.tinypic.com/210d6jp.jpg)
[close]

:o

I never saw that.  I gotta go back and take a look.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 17, 2008, 09:08:01 AM
Yup. I noticed it too.

Creeped me out.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Grecco on June 17, 2008, 10:16:18 AM
Whats with the Jeff Gertsman hate?  ???
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 17, 2008, 10:18:44 AM
I cant wait for MGS4 numbers to hit. Just to see some fanboys melt down when they see how low they are.

:(

I hope it does big. Maybe it will serve as incentive for other devs to put some production values into their games. Seriously, i can't go back to cheap sound effects and crappy animations, modeling, etc...

This gen has been a disappointment in that regards. I blame the fuckin Wii
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Human Snorenado on June 17, 2008, 10:44:58 AM
Man, I gotta resist the urge to go over to GAF and troll the shit out of MGS4.  The best game in the series will be MGS3, which other than the first couple hours was MERCIFULLY FREE of stupid cutscene horseshit and redundant codec chatter.  I'm one of those people who, I don't know, plays games to PLAY GAMES, not watch pretty cg cutscenes telling me shit that I already know about how the world works.  I'll eventually play MGS4 but I expect to enjoy it about as much as an evening of alternating between blowjobs and reading FoC posts.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: TVC15 on June 17, 2008, 10:48:26 AM
well this thread is kind of impressive.

my favorite MGS is MGS:Twin Snakes and I didn't even beat that.

My sole reason for playing that game was for the cut scenes from the director of Versus.

And the director of The Midnight Meat Train!

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: dark1x on June 17, 2008, 11:12:08 AM
Quote
Bullshit. MGS4 isn't on the 360....

... yet.
i assume they want to keep the X360 60fps original demo engine that's running on a real gpu quiet for at least 6 months.
In all honesty, I highly doubt they could get this game running at 60 fps on XBOX360.  The game could certainly be done on 360 if you ask me, but I do think it might suffer in a way similar to PS3 ports of XBOX360 games.  I know the original engine demo was done on a PC, but that doesn't immediately mean it would easily translate to the 360 either.

The 360 and PS3 are pretty close in terms of raw power, I'd estimate.  The PS2, however, was significantly weaker than XBOX in most areas (though PS2 certainly has its advantages).  MGS2 was a game designed very specifically for PS2 and suffered greatly when ported to the XBOX. 

If they were to spent a signficant amount of time redesigning it for 360, however, I'm sure the results would be excellent as they could apply what they had learned creating the PS3 game to this updated engine essentially learning from earlier mistakes.  At the very least, the installation screens would be removed.

It would certainly have to ship on multiple discs, but due to the way it's broken up, that would not be a problem in the least.  In fact, some might prefer swapping discs to waiting for 2-3 minute install.  Have 1 disc per act or something.

I would love to see a 360 version just to see how well someone could port a game designed for PS3 to the 360.  It's generally the other way around and we all know how that works.  Do you really think they'll do it?  I suppose it depends on sales.  Despite all of the used copies you're seeing, the original sales numbers remain and Konami has made money on those copies.  It basically matched MGS3 and exceeded MGS1 and 2 for first day sales with a much smaller userbase in Japan.  I suppose a lot hinges on the US and European sales, however.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: MCD on June 17, 2008, 11:53:40 AM
burnout was designed for the ps3, ported just fine on the 360 (patches helped later with the framerate.)

like i said, it could be done easily with 4xaa too, they just need to trim the fat (remove those silly ads for example.)

edit: no way this will run on 60fps on the 360, even if it does don't think kojima and co will bother.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: dark1x on June 17, 2008, 12:01:35 PM
burnout was designed for the ps3, ported just fine on the 360 (patches helped later with the framerate.)

like i said, it could be done easily with 4xaa too, they just need to trim the fat (remove those silly ads for example.)

edit: no way this will run on 60fps on the 360, even if it does don't think kojima and co will bother.
I was going to mention Burnout, but again, Criterion has always been on the forefront of multiplatform development.  The PS3 may have been the lead platform, but the game was designed from the beginning to be multiplatform just like all of their previous games.  They are experienced and efficient when it comes to designing portable engines.  I think everyone expected the game to be virtually flawless on both machines based on their track record.

Kojima Productions certainly doesn't have such a reputation.  The same can be said of most developers who started work on the 360 and ported to the PS3.  Again, I have no clue how a 360 port of MGS4 would turn out, but it would be interesting to see the results.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: Eric P on June 17, 2008, 12:35:08 PM
well this thread is kind of impressive.

my favorite MGS is MGS:Twin Snakes and I didn't even beat that.

My sole reason for playing that game was for the cut scenes from the director of Versus.

And the director of The Midnight Meat Train!



i am looking forward to it

if nothing else, it will look neat
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 17, 2008, 12:46:26 PM
Kojima Productions certainly doesn't have such a reputation.  The same can be said of most developers who started work on the 360 and ported to the PS3.  Again, I have no clue how a 360 port of MGS4 would turn out, but it would be interesting to see the results.

If they put some resources on it sure. The xbox port was such a side project that only the performance gap between Xbox and Ps2 allowed it to not turn worse than it did.

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: cool breeze on June 17, 2008, 01:01:02 PM
The only thing I would actually want to see ported to 360 is MGO.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Smooth Groove on June 17, 2008, 01:13:00 PM
Sorry, Drohne, the fact that you think MGS4 is intelligent material means that you're an idiot. 

Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: tiesto on June 17, 2008, 02:15:03 PM
I liked Fortune.  Both her and Olga I wish they kept around.  I think they both could have been put to good use in further games.  Olga was fuck hot, too.

If I could go into fanfic territory, my dream MGS2 sequel would involve Snake and Raiden tracking down the Patriots by using Olga as a connection, since she must have some connection what with their kid and all.  You could have had Snake/Raiden/Olga vs The Patriots vs Ocelot.  And I would find a way to bring Zero back.  Just for the codec conversations.

Olga was cool.  Armpit hair :heartbeat

and I still think that there will be a game set between MGS2 and 4, although it won't play out how you want it to be.

Yeah, the armpit hair almost guarantees Olga has a hairy minge... Russian girls + hairy minges = HEAVEN :drool
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on June 17, 2008, 07:27:59 PM
during snake's hilariously cliched monologue in the very beginning, i honestly expected him to murmur "history...is an endless waltz..." in that hokey gravelly voice of his
I half-expected to see Ron Perlman pop out and deliver "War. War never changes."  :-*
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Oblivion on June 17, 2008, 09:24:35 PM
Is MGS4 60fps?
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: Narag on June 17, 2008, 09:27:14 PM
Is MGS4 60fps?

A shaky 30 with it jumping to 60 in enclosed areas. Should've been locked.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 17, 2008, 09:30:12 PM
Quote
They are experienced and efficient when it comes to designing portable engines.

hahaaaaaaaa- i've got to be careful what i say here, but don't expect Criterion to -ever- go with PS3 lead -ever- again. Actually... i'm not sure we'll be seeing much of Criterion at all.

Quote
In all honesty, I highly doubt they could get this game running at 60 fps on XBOX360.  The game could certainly be done on 360 if you ask me, but I do think it might suffer in a way similar to PS3 ports of XBOX360 games.  I know the original engine demo was done on a PC, but that doesn't immediately mean it would easily translate to the 360 either.

i think you need to be able to tell when i'm taking the piss or not. ;)

Quote
The 360 and PS3 are pretty close in terms of raw power, I'd estimate.  The PS2, however, was significantly weaker than XBOX in most areas (though PS2 certainly has its advantages).  MGS2 was a game designed very specifically for PS2 and suffered greatly when ported to the XBOX. 


it'll all come down to how the game was built in the first place, and i'd expect that Kojima wasn't pig headed enough to know that there was a good chance of this game going to other platforms. With MGS2 i think it was a complete after thought. Take Burnout again, the port team for X360 was tiny - if it's designed with both machines in mind, it'll be a doddle and i have yet to see anything in MGS4 that makes me think this is something the X360 couldn't handle.

Quote
I would love to see a 360 version just to see how well someone could port a game designed for PS3 to the 360.

I'll reiterate it again, i think the only thing designed -specifically- for the PS3 is the sound. I think they -knew- from the get go that "plan B" was a PC/X360 version and i expect the game was written with that in mind.


What game on the 360 looks about on par with Mgs4?

And really? You expect it to come to the 360 just like that? I see no clues about it coming, from kojima saying it won't, to Ryan Paton, to behind the scenes documentaries not showing any clue about them working on a 360, no devkits no nothing.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: CurseoftheGods on June 17, 2008, 09:50:59 PM
Is MGS4 60fps?

Far from it. :(
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: bork on June 17, 2008, 10:04:00 PM
360 gets Otomedius, who needs MGS
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: WrikaWrek on June 17, 2008, 10:10:37 PM
Quote
What game on the 360 looks about on par with Mgs4?


i've actually yet to see that much beyond MGO to be honest, but from what little i've seen of MGS4 i don't think much of what makes it looks good is down to the technical aspects, more the art and direction. I thought R6V1 looked way better for instance - maybe it looks way better later on, but again - is that going to be down to tech or art? i'm perpared to lay cash on the later.

etc

Play MGs4 then we will talk ok? MGO isn't where MGS shines, MGO looks pretty darn average.

And your whole economics thing, heh. Basically you got nothing. If MGS sells well then it sells well, it won't need to be ported. Only in world where MGS4 flops on the Ps3 would have the 360 getting a port.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: fistfulofmetal on June 17, 2008, 10:50:27 PM


hahaaaaaaaa- i've got to be careful what i say here, but don't expect Criterion to -ever- go with PS3 lead -ever- again. Actually... i'm not sure we'll be seeing much of Criterion at all.


You don't just say something like that and leave it at that. Explain yourself or shut the fuck up.




Quote
Re: Japanese userbase sales, it really is "thirsty man" syndrome - there's been -nothing- for an age. There literally is nothing else of note. I expect a huge drop off in sales - and as a few people have mentioned, the return rate on the game looks shockingly high. I'm more interested in seeing how Europe and the US pick it up. It should do well.

Jesus, you're insufferable. Game sells well and it's only because of the lack of games. All of the MGS games have sold the same amount in Japan, it's not "thirsty man" syndrome you idiotically claim, it's because the MGS fans bought the game they are fans of. SHOCK AND AWE, I KNOW.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on
Post by: duckman2000 on June 18, 2008, 01:34:52 AM
DCharlie has become surprisingly one note lately.

He's slipped into full self-caricature mode again.  :sp0rsk1
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: bork on June 18, 2008, 02:58:57 AM

You don't just say something like that and leave it at that. Explain yourself or shut the fuck up.

YOU DON'T TALK TO DCHARLIE LIKE THAT.  :maf :maf :maf
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: dark1x on June 18, 2008, 08:16:20 AM
Quote
large chunks of the Criterion team has been disolved/fired/reallocated. Not sure how much it's out there, but apparenly it's been a bit of a blood bath.
Seriously?  Was Paradise not a success?  EA behind this?

That's a damn shame.
Title: Re: Shawn Elliott calls out Shane, Ryan Payton, IGN, and some neogaf posters on MGS4
Post by: MCD on June 18, 2008, 08:20:23 AM
ummm...they updated the game twice now, didn't they?

you sure about that dcharlie?