d's post-apocalyptic open-world shooter Rage (PC, PS3, 360, Mac) will look worse on Xbox 360 due to the compression needed to fit the game's assets on two DVDs, programmer John Carmack revealed at tonight's QuakeCon keynote.
According to Carmack, the royalty fees to include a third disc in the Xbox 360 version would be so high that it simply isn't a feasible solution, with the programmer hoping for Microsoft to make a concession. He stressed that the issue has nothing to do with the Xbox 360 hardware itself, and is merely a storage problem.
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/53976Quoted's post-apocalyptic open-world shooter Rage (PC, PS3, 360, Mac) will look worse on Xbox 360 due to the compression needed to fit the game's assets on two DVDs, programmer John Carmack revealed at tonight's QuakeCon keynote.
According to Carmack, the royalty fees to include a third disc in the Xbox 360 version would be so high that it simply isn't a feasible solution, with the programmer hoping for Microsoft to make a concession. He stressed that the issue has nothing to do with the Xbox 360 hardware itself, and is merely a storage problem.
I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.that's what everyone said about UT3 having mods on 360.
I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).
I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.that's what everyone said about UT3 having mods on 360.
I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).
"epic is so close with microsoft. microsoft would never let a PS3 version be better" etc etc
of course, it's a little easier to give id a pass on royalty fees
I'm wondering how multiple disks will effect how you can travel about in game. Its not like this is some japa RPG with HD CGI. I would think certain parts of the game will be locked out unless this game is completely linear.game will probably use a "chapters" system.
solo unreal tournament? you must be a fucking idiot :lol.I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.that's what everyone said about UT3 having mods on 360.
I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).
"epic is so close with microsoft. microsoft would never let a PS3 version be better" etc etc
of course, it's a little easier to give id a pass on royalty fees
Who cares? UT3 MP is dead even on PC.
And if you wanna play solo, 360 is the better version.
This kind of stuff is going to happen. MS couldn't side with Sony on blu-ray, and they didn't want to risk putting a component in to their box that might come back and bite them in the ass later. They needed to profit this time, so they did everything to make sure they could.i would have guessed you were one of the many who made claims that DVD was not going to be an issue. and i think it just did become a big deal.
And that's that.
Ps3 has more storage space to work with. I really don't see what the big deal is until it becomes a bigger deal. And it just might.
solo unreal tournament? you must be a fucking idiot :lol.I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.that's what everyone said about UT3 having mods on 360.
I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).
"epic is so close with microsoft. microsoft would never let a PS3 version be better" etc etc
of course, it's a little easier to give id a pass on royalty fees
Who cares? UT3 MP is dead even on PC.
And if you wanna play solo, 360 is the better version.
and it matters because we're in another situation where the PS3 version has an advantage because of policy from MS. how good the game is, is not an issue of importance.This kind of stuff is going to happen. MS couldn't side with Sony on blu-ray, and they didn't want to risk putting a component in to their box that might come back and bite them in the ass later. They needed to profit this time, so they did everything to make sure they could.i would have guessed you were one of the many who made claims that DVD was not going to be an issue. and i think it just did become a big deal.
And that's that.
Ps3 has more storage space to work with. I really don't see what the big deal is until it becomes a bigger deal. And it just might.
Who's the dummy that brought up UT3 when no one even plays it? ::)MS is helping market UT3 360 and Epic is close to MS with, if you've forgotten, one of their largest selling games made with an exclusive publishing deal. it doesn't really matter how successful UT3 is on any platform. we're talking about MS policy here and the fact that many people like you made claims that MS would change their policy and allow mods on UT3 so that it is on par with PS3's version. now we have people assuming MS will change their policy to make sure Rage 360 is on par with PS3's version. do you really think that's a safe bet?
probably still going to look better than ps3 version even compressed all to hellyes, that's exactly what carmack meant when he said the ps3 and pc versions would look better.
rsx budget gpu :gloomy
I bet Microsoft makes an exception. They did it with SF2THDWTF, they'll do it here too. Isn't EA publishing RAGE? I'm sure EA could do something aswell.
I'm still getting it on the Xbox 360. I bet looking "worse" is very minor overall, but I don't care about graphics(I wanna play for the story).
probably still going to look better than ps3 version even compressed all to hell
rsx budget gpu :gloomy
Megatextures pwning DVDs left and right. PC, one platform future :bow
I'm pretty sure Wolf Gang is distinguished mentally-challenged, so go easy on him.
http://gamevideos.com/video/id/20047he's an excellent engineer, but he makes it pretty obvious how out of touch he is with the game industry in large.
Carmack interview.
sounds like a public call for a reduced rate to me.http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3169112
Shawn "In a way were you hoping to influence your fans who might then influence MS by going online and some things like that.":lol
Carmack, "Absolutely"
If he knocks Sony, I guess he's an idiot again.
Maybe the Cell is the only architecture that could let him program a codec strong enough to make DVD space (or the lack thereof) a non-issue?
Oh, the irony.
Jesus, why can we only get the winnet hanging sfags over here?
Pana, please post ASAP
Maybe the Cell is the only architecture that could let him program a codec strong enough to make DVD space (or the lack thereof) a non-issue?Compression on the fly is still sacrificing quality even though the 360 is good at it for now. Imagine how great 360 games would look if compression wasn't needed to be uncompressed and render.
Oh, the irony.
PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.
It's not PS3's fault that Carmack can't step up without whining and without Naughty Dog's lead programmer.
PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.
It's not PS3's fault that Carmack can't step up without whining and without Naughty Dog's lead programmer.
makes everything else out there on consoles look like shit
QuoteIt's not PS3's fault
lol ... but it is, you fucking nonce!
Yeah, and I'm sure PS3 developers would just hate having a more intuitive development environment too, am I right? ::)
Multi-platform, running at 60fps...and makes everything else out there on consoles look like shit? If I were you, Sfag Jr., I'd STFU and take a bit of constructive criticism as part of the package 'cause he's giving you about as much as you're going to get out of multiplatform development this gen.
PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.
Developers like Naughty Dog and Insomniac have developed their own proprietary engines.
Their development environment is intuitive to them because it is their development environment.
[
PS3 developers, and I mean true game developers, have adapted -- 10 years ahead of everybody else.
Developers like Naughty Dog and Insomniac have developed their own proprietary engines.
It would not make sense for you to say that developers who have developed exclusively for PS3 have not streamlined their processes and environments.
Multi-platform development benefits from the PS3 being lead platform because of better programming practices, which separate the wheat from the chaff.
You can call it forced training if you want. I just call it reading the hardware documentation and making shit shine for the Cell.
PS3 separates the wheat from the chaff, in all aspects.
how does killzone 2 prove it is more powerful? because you like the look better?only on EB (well, it probably happens on xbox forums too) do you see people acting like killzone 2 is nothing special. everywhere else, you see comments like "comes close to the CG trailer" (regardless of how true that statement is) and "yes, that's real-time" etc.
the ps3 is a clusterfuck of a design, and has real limitations. the sega saturn had some ace programmers bring us vf2 and doa, but did that make it superior to the playstation just because no-one on the latter machine attempted similar tricks?
Xenos is better than rsx, though, as all serious devs know by now, KZ2 is doing some really neat stuff, but it sucks that Sony gets the credit, and not some really sharp guys at Guerilla. That's what pisses me off about people brininging up Killzone; you know they aren't talking about Guerilla or what they're doing (and they are doing a nice job graphically) they are bringing up Sony and a stupid console war. you want to know how I know? Because without a big console fight no one in their right mind would give a fuck about Killzone because the first one sucked.nobody here said RSX was more powerful than xenos... :duh
are you intentionally playing dumb? the point is that most people can recognize the technical aspects of KZ2, where as many here at EB voice the opposite.Quoteonly on EB (well, it probably happens on xbox forums too) do you see people acting like killzone 2 is nothing special. everywhere else, you see comments like "comes close to the CG trailer" (regardless of how true that statement is) and "yes, that's real-time" etc.
so everywhere else we see a statement of questionable truth and something we actually know (yes, it IS real time)?
KZ2 looks decent, the question is whether it's going to be a good game or not.
But Killzone Liberation was awesome. Not to mention that Killzone 2 actually looks like it will be interesting.yeah, i think it's pretty obvious that KZ2 has plenty of potential. i never bothered playing the original KZ. but the gameplay looks on par with other big shooters and the graphics are definitely way up there. the idea that someone can discount KZ2 based on KZ1 is ridiculous considering the circumstances are basically as different as you can get. the guerilla today is a different beast compared to the guerilla behind KZ1.
I actually never cared about the original Killzone when it was coming out. If you want to know how little I was looking forward to Killzone, I actually thought the Fugitive Hunter demo was this 'Halo Killer' people were talking about. The Killzone demo I played was broken. The other bits I played on a friends console were boring, and again, broken.
how? because they made a third person psp game? FOR FUCKS SAKE AT LEAST TALK ABOUT INFAMOUS.
Killzone 2 is a nice looking game, but is it that impressive? It's 720p, 30fps, with not that many enemies on screen. Sure might seem pretty close to the trailer when you scale stuff down.32 players online. no graphical hit.
Demi: liberation was cool, but worth the breathless hype?if we hadn't seen gameplay footage... obviously liberation wouldn't warrant the hype. it gets hype based on what they've shown, which has been quite impressive. i mean, at worst, it's been compared to a call of duty game :lol.
I'm saying that for all intents and purposes Killzone 2 looks to be mediocre pap, forgettable to all but a few, but for some fucking reason (stop me if i'm wrong) it gets brought up in very fucking thread for some fucking reason.
Quoteit gets hype based on what they've shown, which has been quite impressive. i mean, at worst, it's been compared to a call of duty game .
did you miss the KZ1 hype as well as the game, out of interest?
the KZ2 hype train is an almost exact rerun of the first game.
bullshit and you know it. i'll eat my crow if it deserves it, but come the fuck on. this game has been getting the same bullshit hype since the trailer with no gameplay involved. and since you're all the big pc buffs, you know that fps comes down to very fine execution.
yeah but guerilla=infinity ward? come on, i thought you were a big time pc gamer?guerilla circa kz1 =/= guerilla circa kz2 is what i've been saying. team size and budget have increased exponentially. one of KZ's biggest faults was the performance on ps2, and playable demonstrations have proven that KZ2 runs at a solid enough 30fps on ps3 already. they've made definite improvements since the first killzone and there's nothing to say other aspects of the game can't see similar benefits to the enhanced development team/budget/cycle.
the engine is actually pretty fucking impressive from a rendering standpoint.so, why are you surprised to see it brought up?
One thing that Killzone 2 looks like it is actually doing better than most other FPS games is making the guns seem powerful. Black was another game that did this and I really liked it because of it.
Demi: liberation was cool, but worth the breathless hype?
I remember playing Halo, getting my ass kicked by elites and random enemies, and actually cackling out loud when I came back to the battle scene armed with a tank. Those types of moments. :heartbeat
Speaking of Resistance though, it's hard to not feel that Insomniac is being overshadowed by Guerrilla again. That sort of sucks, because looking at both developer legacy and announced feature lists, Resistance seems to be shitting all over Killzone 2.
i think some of the ex-black team are now at GG by the way.
but funny that you mentioned the feeling of power with Black as they had to increase the bullet tollerance of the original game to what we actually got becuase it made the game way too short.
That actually irked me about Black - it felt like a disconnect when i had to plug each enemy with numerous bullets to drop them.
That actually irked me about Black - it felt like a disconnect when i had to plug each enemy with numerous bullets to drop them.
I am guessing that is because Killzone 2 is more of a game you can show off and impress people.
But Killzone Liberation was awesome. Not to mention that Killzone 2 actually looks like it will be interesting.yeah, i think it's pretty obvious that KZ2 has plenty of potential. i never bothered playing the original KZ. but the gameplay looks on par with other big shooters and the graphics are definitely way up there. the idea that someone can discount KZ2 based on KZ1 is ridiculous considering the circumstances are basically as different as you can get. the guerilla today is a different beast compared to the guerilla behind KZ1.
I actually never cared about the original Killzone when it was coming out. If you want to know how little I was looking forward to Killzone, I actually thought the Fugitive Hunter demo was this 'Halo Killer' people were talking about. The Killzone demo I played was broken. The other bits I played on a friends console were boring, and again, broken.
this thread migrated to a technical discussion. KZ2 gets brought up because it's technically VERY impressive. you bring up KZ1 to troll KZ2 and it just shows that you can't distinguish a game's technical aspects from it's gameplay merits.
Sony blocking late ports that don't have enhancements.
For real, isnt that nicca supposed to be dead?
... half-baked abandoned tech like the cell; ...
dfyb: Carmack is right. PS3 rules, 360 drools.well, i didn't say this. i made a thread about the news that carmack is frustrated with MS's per-disc royalty fee.
dfyb: Carmack is a lazy, out of touch dev. Uh, btw, that Killzone 2 game looks pretty good doesn't it?and i didn't say he was lazy, either. as far as being out of touch goes, i think carmack spelled it out himself. he doesn't network with the industry, he doesn't play competitors games (he only analyzes the technical aspects of the games), and he was disappointed by the sales of a cell phone game he ported to DS, coming to the conclusion that DS wasn't good for third parties.
There is a possibility for a PS3 port but not for a little while; there is a limited-time exclusivity in place.
I think it might be pretty hard to port Braid to the PS3 (speaking as someone who has done PS3 programming before). Jeff at RAD Game Tools tells me they have a pretty fast Vorbis decoder that (I think) uses the SPUs, so that is one of the main stumbling blocks. But there are other parts of Braid that are more expensive CPU-wise than you might think, and they might have trouble running at sufficient speed on the PS3.
I probably would hire someone to port it, though (given that I have the money to do that) since I would rather be working on the next game.
do any of you ever look at the words you've just written and think "wow, im a big fucking distinguished effete fellow. im arguing about videogames with other people on the internet. hmm mabye i should kill myself"
do any of you ever look at the words you've just written and think "wow, im a big fucking distinguished effete fellow. im arguing about videogames with other people on the internet. hmm mabye i should kill myself"
I do
not quite, but when the wife sticks her head over my shoulder she will some times ask "why do you care about what this asshat thinks? Let him think whatever he wants , you are never going to change an idiots mind, so why bother? Why don't you play some games instead?" i do think "good fucking lord, what am i doing?!"
she's right.
do any of you ever look at the words you've just written and think "wow, im a big fucking distinguished effete fellow. im arguing about videogames with other people on the internet. hmm mabye i should kill myself"
yeah, that image is perfect.do any of you ever look at the words you've just written and think "wow, im a big fucking distinguished effete fellow. im arguing about videogames with other people on the internet. hmm mabye i should kill myself"
(http://www.mattcutts.com/images/duty_calls.png)
I know that NeoGAF didn't ban you guys for being hippie hugging groupies, so WTF is going on in this thread?
I know that NeoGAF didn't ban you guys for being hippie hugging groupies, so WTF is going on in this thread?
"All of the key scenes, the things anyone is going to take a screenshot of are going to look exactly the same on both platforms," Carmack explains. "They'll get the high quality compression. But if you go into some areas in the wasteland, like behind a fence where nobody will typically go and explore, this is where the 360 version may look a little blurry compared to the PS3."
I don't understand this whole "more royalties for more discs" thing. It doesn't make a lick of sense to me. I mean, it's still one fucking game, whether it's on one disc or three.microsoft has a per-disc fee. assumed to be a deterrent for multi-disk games.
while i want it to be 3 discs as much as carmack, i think it's too much for a shooter.
we're at least at two DVDs and on the PC we might choose to be three DVDs to match what the game will look like for the PS3.
JOHN CARMACK: We're pretty much resigned to the fact that we're going to make it fit onto two DVDs on the 360. Plus there would be a lot of disc switching if we went to three DVDs, and since the game is split between two different wasteland environments, two DVDs should work well. That's the only thing the PS3 has going for it over the 360 - more gigs.
he's clearly talking about texture compression.:lol texture compression is not the game's rendered resolution. when he's talking about matching the PS3 version by using 3 DVD's on PC (same thing necessary for 360 version to match PS3 version), it's about having space for all the textures without having to compress them to fit on the disc. has nothing to do with the resolution the game is rendered at (you can use the same textures running at 640x480 and 1600x1200--it doesn't matter).
on pc, you have more than that, like 1080p or whatever.
(Though I must admit, I hate having to juggle discs. It's a little thing, but single disc installs > multi disc installs.)that's like saying short installs > long installs. there's not even a real comparison to be made.
Yeah, is Carmack scared that the PS3 is going to make the PC look bad, too?there's no reason he should. unless the PC really is a low enough priority for him that he'll actually release on 2 DVD's for some reason. i don't really see that happening though. unlike 360, there's no extraordinary costs associated with using more discs. i'm guessing he basically mispoke.
That's the only thing the PS3 has going for it over the 360 - more gigs.
only
AHUAHUAHUAHUAHUHAUA budget hardware fanboys shed thick tears down shaking jowls
Who is this Wolf Gang fellow.
I just didn't want to come across as rah rah DVD. if DVD eventually means multi disc installs on the PC, I'll start eyeballing blu ray drive.s(Though I must admit, I hate having to juggle discs. It's a little thing, but single disc installs > multi disc installs.)that's like saying short installs > long installs. there's not even a real comparison to be made.
Probably. 360 version probably will also be inferior. Being the better of the two losers still makes it a loser.
i was talking about pc features you can't have on your shitty console.he's clearly talking about texture compression.:lol texture compression is not the game's rendered resolution. when he's talking about matching the PS3 version by using 3 DVD's on PC (same thing necessary for 360 version to match PS3 version), it's about having space for all the textures without having to compress them to fit on the disc. has nothing to do with the resolution the game is rendered at (you can use the same textures running at 640x480 and 1600x1200--it doesn't matter).
on pc, you have more than that, like 1080p or whatever.
i'm surprised he's even considering the possibility of NOT using as many DVD's as necessary for the PC version. it's not like 4 disc PC games are not heard of.
Also, I have my doubts that the PS3 version of Rage will have a hard disc install, otherwise Carmack failed to mention that PS3 then has two things over the 360, actually.
Blu-Ray might be the only thing PS3 needs to force Xbox to another four-year term.
MS can drop the disc royalties but then they make Blu-Ray, and thus PS3, look good.
PS3 is the console version of Rage to get if you want to explore the wasteland.
And, yes, I do think X720 is going to get launched next holiday season, and not just because of one game. Because of many.
As for developers holding games back for the 360... well, Carmack didn't do that, and he's on the Xbox wise men's committee or advisory or something. PS3 version is going to outshine the X360 version, which hurt him so dearly to admit. He basically shunned the 360 publicly.
Wolf Gang is obviously a troll, I don't know why you guys are responding to him.