THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:13:25 AM

Title: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:13:25 AM
http://infidelsarecool.com/2007/10/16/15-reasons-why-socialism-sucks/

That site lists 15 reasons why socialism sucks.

Why does Socialism suck? Here’s just a few reasons…

It’s a system of authoritarian political control
It’s anti-freedom
It’s one step away from communism
Promotes laziness
You own NOTHING while the government owns EVERYTHING
It lets the government tell me what I can and can’t do with my money
Destroys free markets
It’s tyrannical
It’s detrimental to individual liberty
It gives losers/drug addicts/poor/homeless people a free pass
Does not reward hard working individuals
Does not define man as “created equally” but instead “deserves everything equally”
Gives the common man no reason to excel, thrive, succeed at anything.
Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?
If it’s so great, why do Canadians, Cubans, and Europeans flock to America when they need immediate specialized health care? ….. Cause when they need help, they’re told to “Get in line!”


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Yes I know it was written in 2007.
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Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tieno on October 20, 2008, 10:15:41 AM
Do europeans flock to america for immediate specialized health care?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:18:09 AM
Do europeans flock to america for immediate specialized health care?

I'm not 100% on how many, but I know Canada's healthcare system, which so many want to hold in such high esteem, has alot of problems.

This link gives examples:

http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/canadian_brand_socialism_faili/

From that link:

I am the mother of a child with asthma. When my son had difficulty breathing randomly through the winter, I sought treatment. First I made an appointment with my doctor (2 week waiting time) so I could obtain a referral to a specialist. (In Canada you cannot just go to a specialist, you must get a referral from the gatekeepers: family doctors. Oh, and about 5 million Canadians don’t have one of those.) It took about six weeks for the specialist to get back to me with how long I’d have to wait for my son’s appointment: 12 months. Did I mention that periodically he couldn’t breathe?


What’s the median time for an MRI in Alberta? Almost 9 weeks. And for about 360 of the 18,839 people served in a 90 day period, their wait was up to a year. Granted, if you arrive in the ER in desperate and dire need of an MRI, you are rushed to the front of the line. The rest just wait. Not knowing, wondering, waiting.



:(
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 20, 2008, 10:20:21 AM





that is a distinguished mentally-challenged list.



Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:22:55 AM

that is a distinguished mentally-challenged list.


If the list is distinguished mentally-challenged, please tell me why.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tauntaun on October 20, 2008, 10:23:50 AM
:bow Freedom :bow2

:piss Socialism :piss2
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 10:26:29 AM
(http://th01.deviantart.com/fs13/300W/f/2007/042/e/d/Socialism_by_miniamericanflags.jpg)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:27:10 AM
:bow Freedom :bow2

:piss Socialism :piss2

:bow Tauntaun :bow2
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 20, 2008, 10:28:07 AM

that is a distinguished mentally-challenged list.


If the list is distinguished mentally-challenged, please tell me why.

This is why the list is distinguished mentally-challenged

Quote from: distinguished mentally-challenged fellow who made list
Hillary Clinton is a SOCIALIST. She wants to tax you more, so she can give it back to the “victims” and the “poor” and the “minorities” and the “less fortunate”.


Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: John Dunbar on October 20, 2008, 10:30:20 AM
Promotes laziness
Destroys free markets
It gives losers/drug addicts/poor/homeless people a free pass
Does not reward hard working individuals
Does not define man as “created equally” but instead “deserves everything equally”
Gives the common man no reason to excel, thrive, succeed at anything.

All beautiful things.

:bow Socialism :bow2
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Eric P on October 20, 2008, 10:30:36 AM
well i certainly can't refute anything in that list

i'm suggesting we move to a kitten cuddle based economy instead
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:32:14 AM

that is a distinguished mentally-challenged list.


If the list is distinguished mentally-challenged, please tell me why.

This is why the list is distinguished mentally-challenged

Quote from: distinguished mentally-challenged fellow who made list
Hillary Clinton is a SOCIALIST. She wants to tax you more, so she can give it back to the “victims” and the “poor” and the “minorities” and the “less fortunate”.




So where in that list I posted, does it say Hillary is a socialist? I posted the list by the way. It doesnt. Learn to read a list. You could have said the man's opinion of hillary made the list stupid. But the list itself doesnt point fingers. :P

Also, thats one thing socialism does. ;)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tauntaun on October 20, 2008, 10:34:01 AM
well i certainly can't refute anything in that list

i'm suggesting we move to a kitten cuddle based economy instead

awww, kitties.  :heart
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 20, 2008, 10:36:32 AM
I can read just fine.  I can follow links just fine.  The statement I quoted belongs to the douche who made the FUCKING list.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Bocsius on October 20, 2008, 10:41:55 AM
Why the list sucks:


It’s a system of authoritarian political control wrong
It’s anti-freedom  wrong
It’s one step away from communism  wrong
Promotes laziness  wrong
You own NOTHING while the government owns EVERYTHING  wrong
It lets the government tell me what I can and can’t do with my money  wrong
Destroys free markets wrong
It’s tyrannical  wrong
It’s detrimental to individual liberty wrong
It gives losers/drug addicts/poor/homeless people a free pass wrong
Does not reward hard working individuals wrong
Does not define man as “created equally” but instead “deserves everything equally”  wrong
Gives the common man no reason to excel, thrive, succeed at anything.  wrong
Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?  You probably should
If it’s so great, why do Canadians, Cubans, and Europeans flock to America when they need immediate specialized health care? ….. Cause when they need help, they’re told to “Get in line!”  Let's investigate further

And I generally don't favor socialism except in regards to universal health care.

So much of that list basically assumes socialism = communism. You have no freedom! No reason to thrive! Gubmint controls your wallet! The only thing that promotes laziness here is the list author's lack of effort to come up with compelling arguments.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:43:41 AM
I can read just fine.  I can follow links just fine.  The statement I quoted belongs to the douche who made the FUCKING list.

LOL, and as I said in my last post, The list is a valid list of reasons why Socialism sucks. Granted, the author of the list also has views on Hillary, and likely Obama as well. But his opinion of them does NOT refute the fact that the list is a valid list. so saying the list is distinguished mentally-challenged because you don't like the author's views is not valid. Giving reasons why the reasons themselves are retared would work ;)

...


Oh wait, thats right. If it were a list of reasons why McCain sucked from Huffington post, it would be fine.  ::)

lol.



Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:44:14 AM
Why the list sucks:


It’s a system of authoritarian political control wrong
It’s anti-freedom  wrong
It’s one step away from communism  wrong
Promotes laziness  wrong
You own NOTHING while the government owns EVERYTHING  wrong
It lets the government tell me what I can and can’t do with my money  wrong
Destroys free markets wrong
It’s tyrannical  wrong
It’s detrimental to individual liberty wrong
It gives losers/drug addicts/poor/homeless people a free pass wrong
Does not reward hard working individuals wrong
Does not define man as “created equally” but instead “deserves everything equally”  wrong
Gives the common man no reason to excel, thrive, succeed at anything.  wrong
Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?  You probably should
If it’s so great, why do Canadians, Cubans, and Europeans flock to America when they need immediate specialized health care? ….. Cause when they need help, they’re told to “Get in line!”  Let's investigate further

And I generally don't favor socialism except in regards to universal health care.

So much of that list basically assumes socialism = communism. You have no freedom! No reason to thrive! Gubmint controls your wallet! The only thing that promotes laziness here is the list author's lack of effort to come up with compelling arguments.

give more specific reasons why the yare wrong, please. Also, the last one, I posted a link giving examples from Canada. :)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 10:48:49 AM
communism: a theory or system of social organization based on the holding of all property in common, actual ownership being ascribed to the community as a whole or to the state.


socialism: a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
also: (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.


So while not totally the same, its pretty close. According to definition. And things such as Nationalized Health Care are socialist in nature. :)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 20, 2008, 10:51:21 AM
I can read just fine.  I can follow links just fine.  The statement I quoted belongs to the douche who made the FUCKING list.

LOL, and as I said in my last post, The list is a valid list of reasons why Socialism sucks. Granted, the author of the list also has views on Hillary, and likely Obama as well. But his opinion of them does NOT refute the fact that the list is a valid list. so saying the list is distinguished mentally-challenged because you don't like the author's views is not valid. Giving reasons why the reasons themselves are retared would work ;)

...


Oh wait, thats right. If it were a list of reasons why McCain sucked from Huffington post, it would be fine.  ::)

lol.





I am not sure how this is a valid list of why socialism sucks.  Because you say so?  Here is a list of why Ganhyun sucks:

1 Your mom.

2 Your mom.

3 Your mom.


This is a valid list.  Please refute why my list of why Ganhyun sucks is wrong.



spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now cry cry as at why I am attacking you personally so that you feel better about yourself.
[close]
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 10:59:34 AM
My issues with Socialism are...
higher taxes (could depend on the country), weakening the reward of effort for the individual, spreading wealth, undermining personal responsibility, and it creates dependence on the State.

Granted there seem to be different brands of Socialism in the world today, those are just a few common examples that come to mind.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 11:00:47 AM
I can read just fine.  I can follow links just fine.  The statement I quoted belongs to the douche who made the FUCKING list.

LOL, and as I said in my last post, The list is a valid list of reasons why Socialism sucks. Granted, the author of the list also has views on Hillary, and likely Obama as well. But his opinion of them does NOT refute the fact that the list is a valid list. so saying the list is distinguished mentally-challenged because you don't like the author's views is not valid. Giving reasons why the reasons themselves are retared would work ;)

...


Oh wait, thats right. If it were a list of reasons why McCain sucked from Huffington post, it would be fine.  ::)

lol.





I am not sure how this is a valid list of why socialism sucks.  Because you say so?  Here is a list of why Ganhyun sucks:

1 Your mom.

2 Your mom.

3 Your mom.


This is a valid list.  Please refute why my list of why Ganhyun sucks is wrong.



spoiler (click to show/hide)
Now cry cry as at why I am attacking you personally so that you feel better about yourself.
[close]

lol, why would I cry because poor little socialist leftwing liberal who cant think of a good enough excuse for valid reasons the list could be wrong, such as example:

It’s a system of authoritarian political control: A list of reasons or examples showing how socialist countries still have individual freedoms would work here.

wow, i just gave a good reason why it could be wrong. whoa, how hard was that? Does your little teeny mind hurt yet?


Oh, and nice try trying to attack me personally since your too much of a fucking dumbass distinguished mentally-challenged fellow to think of actual intelligent responses, lol.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
look at me, giving valid reasons why socialism might not suck, lol
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Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 11:01:56 AM
Someone's mad  :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 20, 2008, 11:04:08 AM
 :rofl


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Too easy
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Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 11:21:46 AM
Is this a Robopost?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 11:22:08 AM
My favorite South Park episode is the one where Rob Reiner goes around telling people to stop smoking. When Cartman says something along the line of "You get to tell people what to do? Cooool!"


"Kyle and Stan expose him as a fascist, claiming that he actively coerces people into not smoking simply because he hates it."

Pretty much sums up why socialism sucks. Its a system of government where other people tell you how to live your life. People are dumb and the last thing we need is people in charge of other people.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 11:23:26 AM
Why the list sucks:


It’s a system of authoritarian political control wrong
It’s anti-freedom  wrong
It’s one step away from communism  wrong
Promotes laziness  wrong
You own NOTHING while the government owns EVERYTHING  wrong
It lets the government tell me what I can and can’t do with my money  wrong
Destroys free markets wrong
It’s tyrannical  wrong
It’s detrimental to individual liberty wrong
It gives losers/drug addicts/poor/homeless people a free pass wrong
Does not reward hard working individuals wrong
Does not define man as “created equally” but instead “deserves everything equally”  wrong
Gives the common man no reason to excel, thrive, succeed at anything.  wrong
Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?  You probably should
If it’s so great, why do Canadians, Cubans, and Europeans flock to America when they need immediate specialized health care? ….. Cause when they need help, they’re told to “Get in line!”  Let's investigate further

And I generally don't favor socialism except in regards to universal health care.

So much of that list basically assumes socialism = communism. You have no freedom! No reason to thrive! Gubmint controls your wallet! The only thing that promotes laziness here is the list author's lack of effort to come up with compelling arguments.


The list looks spot on to me. Guess I dont see things through marxist red glasses that were given to me by the proletariat.  :P
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 11:24:10 AM
Thomas Jefferson said it best.
"That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves."

I'll eat all the pizza, cheese burgers I want thank you.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 11:27:48 AM
Is this a Robopost?

(http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Brain_Socialist_550.gif)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 20, 2008, 11:33:42 AM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 11:35:13 AM
Is this a Robopost?

(http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Brain_Socialist_550.gif)

 WTF :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 11:36:42 AM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 11:47:36 AM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

Dude, it's highly doubtful any of them have ever left their red states.  Which will soon likely be blue states.  HAW HAW HAW!
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 11:52:24 AM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

Dude, it's highly doubtful any of them have ever left their red states.  Which will soon likely be blue states.  HAW HAW HAW!

so how does this refute the argument that socialism sucks or is bad? lol.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: John Dunbar on October 20, 2008, 11:59:06 AM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)

mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:00:20 PM
Socialism  :'(

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Because everything we've ever been told in middle school is absolutely 100% correct.
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Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Rman on October 20, 2008, 12:00:26 PM
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore?  Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:00:37 PM
I dont need to swim in a shit pool to know that it sucks.  :lol

Quote
What's up with all these thread from right wing bore? 


How many have there been? I guess one is too many to handle for hippie socialist cigarillo-bore.



Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:01:02 PM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)

mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.

lol, I was thinking more of cuba and Eastern European countires and such.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:02:48 PM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)

mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.

lol, I was thinking more of cuba and Eastern European countires and such.

Dude I dont think you know about Cuba. In Cuba fidal himself comes to your house at night to sing you a bed time story. And if you are sick he makes his own special chicken soup.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:03:13 PM
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore?  Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.

lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.

I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Brehvolution on October 20, 2008, 12:03:19 PM
The far right has NO credibility in saying that the left is socialist. Isn't the far right anti-gay and against abortion and don't they want the government to tell these people how they can live?(ie. socialism)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tieno on October 20, 2008, 12:03:45 PM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)

mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.

lol, I was thinking more of cuba and Eastern European countires and such.

I thought you meant western europe and the scandies.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:04:12 PM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)

mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.

lol, I was thinking more of cuba and Eastern European countires and such.

Dude I dont think you know about Cuba. In Cuba fidal himself comes to your house at night to sing you a bed time story. And if you are sick he makes his own special chicken soup.

Really? I didnt know that, lol.

I also hear he lets you try and have a revolution via Dance Dance Revolution. But since he always wins its a sucker's bet.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:05:13 PM
lol, we know stuff because our teachers told us so
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 12:06:09 PM
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore?  Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.
Because not all people share the same opinion you do.  I don't think the thread was intended to be Obama vs Bush, but about socialism in general.

Edit:  Seems to be turning into an Obama thread.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:08:08 PM
:bow Freedom :bow2

:piss Socialism :piss2

:bow Tauntaun :bow2

That is actually my shtick!

:punch Tauntaun The Thief :gun

I can Tauntaun too Borys. There is enough to share/go around, lol.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Rman on October 20, 2008, 12:10:30 PM
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore?  Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.

lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.

I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(

Do you really think this Socialist swing will happen during four years, eight at best or worst, depending on your point view?  What are the specifics points you have against Obama's platform? Because just calling everything under the sun ''socialism'' doesn't foster critical discussion.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:10:57 PM
The far right has NO credibility in saying that the left is socialist. Isn't the far right anti-gay and against abortion and don't they want the government to tell these people how they can live?(ie. socialism)

lol, I honestly think that government nowadays, no matter what side, tries to control as much as possible.

But I'm not far right, lol.

I believe gays should have the ability to marry.
I'm against abortion in general except when the mother's life is threatened. Just my opinion since most rape kits include morning after pills and such to try and keep the girl from becoming pregnant.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:11:56 PM
You two do know that left doesn't = socialism, right?

There are socialist ideals in modern day practices, and then there's full-blown socialism.

Big difference.

edit: wait, what?  :lol

Quote
that government nowadays, no matter what side, tries to control as much as possible.

Well, aherm, point me to where there was "government control" in the last 8 years dealing with the economy.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tieno on October 20, 2008, 12:12:25 PM
Ganhyun sucks, commie-scared fucker
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 20, 2008, 12:14:03 PM
Ganhyun sucks, commie-scared fucker


NOW YOU DID IT!!!  :maf


YOU LIBERAL COMMIE SOCIALIST!!!!
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:14:06 PM
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore?  Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.

lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.

I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(

Do you really think this Socialist swing will happen during four years, eight at best or worst, depending on your point view?  What are the specifics points you have against Obama's platform? Because just calling everything under the sun ''socialism'' doesn't foster critical discussion.

Well, if Obama has his way, healthcare will be nationalized or at least prepared for it really quickly. That is a form of socialism.  And if you look at the Canada healthcare example I posted on the first page, you'd see a valid reason I'd like us to not go to that.
(But yes our current Healthcare does suck too)

But if possible, can we please stop derailing the thread into an Obama thread?




Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:15:04 PM
Quote
healthcare will be nationalized

I suggest you read his plan a bit more closely.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:16:12 PM
You two do know that left doesn't = socialism, right?

There are socialist ideals in modern day practices, and then there's full-blown socialism.

Big difference.

edit: wait, what?  :lol

Quote
that government nowadays, no matter what side, tries to control as much as possible.

Well, aherm, point me to where there was "government control" in the last 8 years dealing with the economy.

I think they were lost there and trying for more control over other things, such as Patriot Act, Calea, etc.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:17:08 PM
Ganhyun sucks, commie-scared fucker

Insults, lol, I struck a nerve ;)

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I know your not being serious
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I hope your not anyways, lol.
[close]

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:18:29 PM
Quote
healthcare will be nationalized

I suggest you read his plan a bit more closely.

ok, I'll go and read more closely into it. Maybe I'll see it the way you do, or the way others do, idaknow. But never say i'm not open to reading on things. :)

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:20:03 PM
Im totally cool with this 'all the whackos stay in one thread' idea
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:22:52 PM
Im totally cool with this 'all the whackos stay in one thread' idea

So your counter argument is that:


bu..bu...bu...but all people who dont like socialism are whackos.


Thats got to be the best counter argument I've ever seen.


for you again:

(http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Brain_Socialist_550.gif)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:23:29 PM
Aww you guys are so adorable.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Bloodwake on October 20, 2008, 12:24:43 PM
Wow, this thread is an uneducated mess.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 12:26:12 PM
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore?  Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.

lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.

I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(

Do you really think this Socialist swing will happen during four years, eight at best or worst, depending on your point view?  What are the specifics points you have against Obama's platform? Because just calling everything under the sun ''socialism'' doesn't foster critical discussion.

Well, if Obama has his way, healthcare will be nationalized or at least prepared for it really quickly. That is a form of socialism.  And if you look at the Canada healthcare example I posted on the first page, you'd see a valid reason I'd like us to not go to that.
(But yes our current Healthcare does suck too)

But if possible, can we please stop derailing the thread into an Obama thread?

As someone pointed out in another thread, this is the way that health care works in America and Canada:

America:

Best health care in the world for those who have more money than God.
Passable health care for upper middle class folks who can afford it.
Crappy health care for regular middle class.
No health care for 1/6 of the country.

Canada:

Inconvenient, not top shelf health care for the very wealthy.
Mediocre to good health care for EVERYONE ELSE.

Gee, I wonder which one I would prefer, seeing as how I'm not richer than God and shit.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:26:43 PM
Quote
healthcare will be nationalized

I suggest you read his plan a bit more closely.

pulled directly from Obama's plan:

Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.


This means the government pays part of the bill for everyone? How is that not socialist? Or partly nationalized? Granted, his plan doesnt totally nationalize healthcare, I'll admit that, but where will the money come from to pay for the government paying part of the premiums for everyone in America? Taxes on the people. So to do this our taxes have to go up.

Honestly, I'd rather this part of his plan be fully implemented:

Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

That and making hospitals and such show the exact amount they charge you on a bill and for what. I'm tired of a $350-500 aspirin. And other such nonsensical charges. Make that stop and the prices would drop.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:28:10 PM
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore?  Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.

lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.

I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(

Do you really think this Socialist swing will happen during four years, eight at best or worst, depending on your point view?  What are the specifics points you have against Obama's platform? Because just calling everything under the sun ''socialism'' doesn't foster critical discussion.

Well, if Obama has his way, healthcare will be nationalized or at least prepared for it really quickly. That is a form of socialism.  And if you look at the Canada healthcare example I posted on the first page, you'd see a valid reason I'd like us to not go to that.
(But yes our current Healthcare does suck too)

But if possible, can we please stop derailing the thread into an Obama thread?

As someone pointed out in another thread, this is the way that health care works in America and Canada:

America:

Best health care in the world for those who have more money than God.
Passable health care for upper middle class folks who can afford it.
Crappy health care for regular middle class.
No health care for 1/6 of the country.

Canada:

Inconvenient, not top shelf health care for the very wealthy.
Mediocre to good health care for EVERYONE ELSE.

Gee, I wonder which one I would prefer, seeing as how I'm not richer than God and shit.

so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem.  :)

Please also note that this doesnt include the time it takes to even see a family doctor to get the go ahead to visit the specialist.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 20, 2008, 12:28:36 PM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

Dude, it's highly doubtful any of them have ever left their red states.  Which will soon likely be blue states.  HAW HAW HAW!

so how does this refute the argument that socialism sucks or is bad? lol.

Because you know jack shit about how it actually works, or how a functional system with such a base is like to live in. On a larger scale, there's something great about knowing that whatever happens, no matter who you are or where you stand in life right now, you will be taken care of. You will also be able to attend any university, with money being squarely a matter of financing living expenses. Income taxes are somewhat higher, but given the cost of health insurance, not to mention university level education, it more than evens out. Not the most popular system among the "elite" (particularly the "elite" which had the great foresight to be born into comfort and wealth) who are being asked to share a small portion of their wealth to support the greater society.

The systems are most certainly not perfect, and are absolutely prone to corruption. But this ridiculous "either or" attitude, particularly among privileged right wingers who have read things, is quite amusing. This either or attitude also makes it near impossible to even approach the idea of a functional middle ground, as any notion of increased social responsibility is met with a "communist!" from the bleachers on the right.

And for the sake of your own integrity, don't bring up Cuba. Not only is Cuba modeled after Soviet "socialism," which implies dictatorship and the laughable notion of people surrendering power, but it has also been actively and passively suppressed by the United States for nearly half a century now. No political system will work if the application is based on hippie theory, and certainly not if its based on the notion of selflessness.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:29:57 PM

America:

Best health care in the world for those who have more money than God.
Passable health care for upper middle class folks who can afford it.
Crappy health care for regular middle class.
No health care for 1/6 of the country.


My dad was an engineer growing up and we were "average middle class." I always had access to doctors office and a hospital if needed. I had two dentist appointments a year and got braces. I was average middle class and I thought my healthcare was pretty damn good.



Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:30:55 PM
Quote
healthcare will be nationalized

I suggest you read his plan a bit more closely.

pulled directly from Obama's plan:

Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.


This means the government pays part of the bill for everyone? How is that not socialist? Or partly nationalized? Granted, his plan doesnt totally nationalize healthcare, I'll admit that, but where will the money come from to pay for the government paying part of the premiums for everyone in America? Taxes on the people. So to do this our taxes have to go up.

Honestly, I'd rather this part of his plan be fully implemented:

Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.

That and making hospitals and such show the exact amount they charge you on a bill and for what. I'm tired of a $350-500 aspirin. And other such nonsensical charges. Make that stop and the prices would drop.

Oh, you're bringing up taxes, I see.

I see.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:31:23 PM
On a larger scale, there's something great about knowing that whatever happens, no matter who you are or where you stand in life right now, you will be taken care of.

What are you 12 years old? Mommy and Daddy will always be there for me.


Duckman2000: "Opps i shat myself come clean my diaper, government."
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:33:41 PM
Go swim in your pool of 20s, McDuck
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 20, 2008, 12:36:40 PM
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem.  :)

I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.

1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.

2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.

3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:36:59 PM
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?

Dude, it's highly doubtful any of them have ever left their red states.  Which will soon likely be blue states.  HAW HAW HAW!

so how does this refute the argument that socialism sucks or is bad? lol.

Because you know jack shit about how it actually works, or how a functional system with such a base is like to live in. On a larger scale, there's something great about knowing that whatever happens, no matter who you are or where you stand in life right now, you will be taken care of. You will also be able to attend any university, with money being squarely a matter of financing living expenses. Income taxes are somewhat higher, but given the cost of health insurance, not to mention university level education, it more than evens out. Not the most popular system among the "elite" (particularly the "elite" which had the great foresight to be born into comfort and wealth) who are being asked to share a small portion of their wealth to support the greater society.

The systems are most certainly not perfect, and are absolutely prone to corruption. But this ridiculous "either or" attitude, particularly among privileged right wingers who have read things, is quite amusing. This either or attitude also makes it near impossible to even approach the idea of a functional middle ground, as any notion of increased social responsibility is met with a "communist!" from the bleachers on the right.

And for the sake of your own integrity, don't bring up Cuba. Not only is Cuba modeled after Soviet "socialism," which implies dictatorship and the laughable notion of people surrendering power, but it has also been actively and passively suppressed by the United States for nearly half a century now. No political system will work if the application is based on hippie theory, and certainly not if its based on the notion of selflessness.

Yes, lets make socialism look so good, yet French people riot because they cant get jobs, and socialist countries pay 60% or more on average in taxes to pay for those things.

:)

cuba is modeled after Soviet Socialism/Communism. :) That is true.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:37:47 PM
DUCKMAN YOU NEED TO WORK HARDER OBVIOUSLY
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 20, 2008, 12:38:46 PM
Yes, lets make socialism look so good, yet French people riot because they cant get jobs, and socialist countries pay 60% or more on average in taxes to pay for those things.

People in "socialist" nations riot because they know that they have the power to change things. Here, people put in anonymous petitions to their big, scary government.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:38:52 PM
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem.  :)

I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.

1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.

2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.

3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.

you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:39:15 PM
I like how the republican posters on this forum flail about as much as McCain's campaign
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:41:21 PM
I like how the republican posters on this forum flail about as much as McCain's campaign

And I like how all you can do is attack anyone who doesn't share your groupthink. :)

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:42:47 PM
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Rman on October 20, 2008, 12:43:06 PM
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem.  :)

I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.

1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.

2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.

3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.

you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?



So, according to you, Univeral Health Care will suck and the current alternative sucks.  What do you propose?  
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:45:05 PM
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem.  :)

I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.

1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.

2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.

3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.

you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?



So, according to you, Univeral Health Care will suck and the current alternative sucks.  What do you propose?  

That no one get sick obviously

Honestly, I have no perfect solution for healthcare.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:45:17 PM
No healthcare at all; sacrificial ceremonies to the Sun God.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:45:55 PM
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books

I read plenty of books.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:46:25 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 12:47:50 PM
I like how the republican posters on this forum flail about as much as McCain's campaign
One doesn't have to be a republican to take issues with socialism, in fact there are people in Europe that would be considered very liberal if they lived here that are against certain socialist policies.  In fact the current president who is republican seems 'A OK' nationalizing banks.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:48:21 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Rman on October 20, 2008, 12:48:42 PM
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem.  :)

I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.

1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.

2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.

3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.

you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?



So, according to you, Univeral Health Care will suck and the current alternative sucks.  What do you propose?  

That no one get sick obviously

Honestly, I have no perfect solution for healthcare.

There will never be a perfect solution to anything.  What I don't understand is you opposing universal health care when it attempts to provide at least some solutions, like providing health care to those who cannot afford it.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:49:04 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

Typical.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:51:17 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

Typical.

Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 12:51:46 PM
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books

It's a byproduct of attacking "the elite" across all facets of society.  "The elite, east coast liberal media", "the elite Georgetown cocktail circuit", "the elite old boys club", "the elitist ivy league schools" etc etc.  It breeds and fosters a distaste for intelligence and rigorous discussion/examination of one's own beliefs.  Why bother with that when Rush/Hannity/O'reilly will just tell you what to think?  Sarah Palin is the ultimate culmination of that anti-intellectualism.  In so many ways, she really IS the poster child and ultimate standard bearer for what the Republican party has devolved into.

I mean, when you have a party that hates:

-"pinhead, elitist ivy school educated blowhards"
-black people
-hispanics
-gay people
-urban city dwellers, who apparently caught the liberal dumb from the darkies
-east and west coast liberals

then what you're left with is the party of ignorant white people.  Guess what?  This is becoming an increasingly non-white, non-ignorant (we can hope, anyhow) nation.  The Republican party would be best served realizing that and trying to find a platform and message that could appeal to this emerging dynamic.  Instead they're using their old playbook, and will wonder why they're useless much the same as the Whigs did in the mid 1800's.  HAW HAW HAW.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:51:49 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

Typical.

Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..



lol, the south. are you at a library computer?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:52:39 PM
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books

Is there any good socialist fiction? All the best fiction is anti-socialist.



In before someone says The Jungle
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tauntaun on October 20, 2008, 12:52:45 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

What kind of guns?  I only own a .22 bolt action that I inherited from my grandfather. :gun
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:52:48 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

Typical.

Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..



lol, the south. are you at a library computer?

 :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:53:42 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

What kind of guns?  I only own a .22 bolt action that I inherited from my grandfather. :gun


Guns :bow2


Socialists dont want people to defend themselves.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:54:05 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

Typical.

Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..



lol, the south. are you at a library computer?

no, I own two pcs. And am at work currently using that pc.

So just because I live in the south, I must not own my own pc? Racist :P
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 12:54:23 PM
Pretty sure that's not racism
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 12:54:45 PM
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem.  :)

I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.

1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.

2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.

3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.

you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?



So, according to you, Univeral Health Care will suck and the current alternative sucks.  What do you propose?  

That no one get sick obviously

Honestly, I have no perfect solution for healthcare.

There will never be a perfect solution to anything.  What I don't understand is you opposing universal health care when it attempts to provide at least some solutions, like providing health care to those who cannot afford it.

NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:55:20 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

Typical.

Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..



lol, the south. are you at a library computer?

no, I own two pcs. And am at work currently using that pc.

So just because I live in the south, I must not own my own pc? Racist :P

I think you mean, classist.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:55:26 PM
Pretty sure that's not racism

shush hes racist against southern people I say, lol.

or at the least misguided.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:56:01 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 12:56:23 PM
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books

Is there any good socialist fiction? All the best fiction is anti-socialist.



In before someone says The Jungle
spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://s3.amazonaws.com/wootdesigncontestentries/JadenKale/Oh_Burned!!!-aauhbc-s.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 12:56:25 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

What kind of guns?  I only own a .22 bolt action that I inherited from my grandfather. :gun


Guns :bow2


Socialists dont want people to defend themselves.

This socialist owns four guns.  There goes that theory.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:56:41 PM
I think you mean, classist.

Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 12:58:04 PM
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.

Wasnt talking about the Bible either.

Already own some guns.

What kind of guns?  I only own a .22 bolt action that I inherited from my grandfather. :gun

Well, I own an old 4-10 Shotgun, a .22 bolt action like yourself, a .30-30, and a revolver.

But I can also ably use a M-16, M4, M203, and a few other military class weapons :)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 12:58:11 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.

Indeed.

Actually, the real difference in the way we think is that you're ok with rich people using their money to buy civilization for themselves as they choose, and I'm ok with taxing them and using some of their money to buy civilization for all.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 12:58:27 PM
This socialist owns four guns.  There goes that theory.

But minorities are the victim of gun violence at a far greater rate than whites. Why do you hate minorities?


SMH
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 12:58:35 PM
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
This.  And this fellow is proof one doesn't have to be born rich to find success.
(http://www.thunderstruck.org/graphics/GardnerC-Photo.jpg)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 12:59:31 PM
I think you mean, classist.

Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Brehvolution on October 20, 2008, 12:59:49 PM
Isn't socialism the new fear monger word from the right noise machine?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:00:00 PM

Indeed.

Actually, the real difference in the way we think is that you're ok with rich people using their money to buy civilization for themselves as they choose, and I'm ok with taxing them and using some of their money to buy civilization for all.

No I'm ok with rich people doing whatever they want with their money (as long as they dont hurt other people or infringe their freedoms). This is called freedom and since you are socialist and against freedom the OPs list is validated


THREAD CLOSED

Socialists fail
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 01:00:26 PM
Hey beardo

hey

look at me
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 01:00:45 PM
I think you mean, classist.

Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.

It's not our fault.  I constantly chuckle when the uber-rich blowhards of the right cry about class warfare.  Sure there's a class war going on- AND IT'S BEING WAGED AND WON BY THE RIGHT AND THE RICH.  I so desperately want for a democrat, some democrat to one day respond to that charge with the truth:  "Yes, I'm talking about class warfare.  But it isn't a war that I chose or began- you people did.  And I will end it."  That would be a true leftist worth voting for.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:01:26 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

Yes, but instead of donating to whoever you want,  wouldn't you rather be forced to donate your money to whatever the government deems necessary.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:02:09 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

Yes, but instead of donating to whoever you want,  wouldn't you rather be forced to donate your money to whatever the government deems necessary.

Since he supports socialism, yes he would :)

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:03:05 PM
I think you mean, classist.

Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.

It's not our fault.  I constantly chuckle when the uber-rich blowhards of the right cry about class warfare.  Sure there's a class war going on- AND IT'S BEING WAGED AND WON BY THE RIGHT AND THE RICH.  I so desperately want for a democrat, some democrat to one day respond to that charge with the truth:  "Yes, I'm talking about class warfare.  But it isn't a war that I chose or began- you people did.  And I will end it."  That would be a true leftist worth voting for.
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Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:03:38 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Brehvolution on October 20, 2008, 01:03:43 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.

How are they being punished?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 01:04:29 PM
I think you mean, classist.

Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.

It's not our fault.  I constantly chuckle when the uber-rich blowhards of the right cry about class warfare.  Sure there's a class war going on- AND IT'S BEING WAGED AND WON BY THE RIGHT AND THE RICH.  I so desperately want for a democrat, some democrat to one day respond to that charge with the truth:  "Yes, I'm talking about class warfare.  But it isn't a war that I chose or began- you people did.  And I will end it."  That would be a true leftist worth voting for.
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Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:04:38 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.

How are they being punished?

Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:05:18 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.



Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 01:05:25 PM
I think you mean, classist.

Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.

It's not our fault.  I constantly chuckle when the uber-rich blowhards of the right cry about class warfare.  Sure there's a class war going on- AND IT'S BEING WAGED AND WON BY THE RIGHT AND THE RICH.  I so desperately want for a democrat, some democrat to one day respond to that charge with the truth:  "Yes, I'm talking about class warfare.  But it isn't a war that I chose or began- you people did.  And I will end it."  That would be a true leftist worth voting for.
I take it you're a fascist.  All embrace Soviet America!
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 01:05:32 PM

Indeed.

Actually, the real difference in the way we think is that you're ok with rich people using their money to buy civilization for themselves as they choose, and I'm ok with taxing them and using some of their money to buy civilization for all.

No I'm ok with rich people doing whatever they want with their money (as long as they dont hurt other people or infringe their freedoms). This is called freedom and since you are socialist and against freedom the OPs list is validated


THREAD CLOSED

Socialists fail

Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike.  Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.

Choose:  keep some of your money or die in a heinous fashion with none of it.  Help pay for new roads, bridges, schools and technology for the common good or pay with your life.  It really doesn't bother me.  In fact, a big part of me would rather things get a whole lot worse before they get any better, because then maybe the 1% of the country that controls more than 50% of the wealth would get killed.  That would be great.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:06:30 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.



Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?

Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.

Bigot.

So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:06:37 PM
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike.  Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.


Uh... nobody is forcing anyone to work. Slavery has been gone for over 100 years. SMH at the left's logic.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:06:43 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

Yes, but instead of donating to whoever you want,  wouldn't you rather be forced to donate your money to whatever the government deems necessary.

I'm fine with being taxed more, but I won't be. Maybe someday i'll make enough to be taxed more, and if that day comes hot dog. 250k a year of income is fucking crazy. I'd love to make so much that I could give more to the communities that made it possible.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:07:13 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.



Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?

Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.

Bigot.

So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P

Person from the south calling me a bigot LULZ
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:07:34 PM

I'm fine with being taxed more, but I won't be. Maybe someday i'll make enough to be taxed more, and if that day comes hot dog. 250k a year of income is fucking crazy. I'd love to make so much that I could give more to the communities that made it possible.

So next april when you file your taxes are you going to give more taxes than you have too?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Rman on October 20, 2008, 01:07:44 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.

How are they being punished?

Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
You mean taxes right?  I sure do love having a working a sewer system, roads, water, and all that.  Hey, the internet you using now would not exist without taxpayer money.  
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 01:07:58 PM
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike.  Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.


Uh... nobody is forcing anyone to work. Slavery has been gone for over 100 years. SMH at the left's logic.

That's horseshit and you know it.  To have ANY chance in this economy/society, you need to have SOME sort of job.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:08:26 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.

How are they being punished?

Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
You mean taxes right?  I sure do love having a working a sewer system, roads, water, and all that.  Hey, the internet you using now would not exist without taxpayer money.  


None of which is paid for by income tax. I pay for those through my utility bill.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:08:30 PM
Maybe if they made it less paperwork. Laziness trumps Good Will. Id rather they just ask for more and raise the bar.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 01:08:37 PM
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike.  Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.


Uh... nobody is forcing anyone to work. Slavery has been gone for over 100 years. SMH at the left's logic.

Yes.  Remind me again what the option to "not working" is.  Ah.  Starvation and death.  So go back to mines, plebe, and make me richer.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:08:45 PM

Indeed.

Actually, the real difference in the way we think is that you're ok with rich people using their money to buy civilization for themselves as they choose, and I'm ok with taxing them and using some of their money to buy civilization for all.

No I'm ok with rich people doing whatever they want with their money (as long as they dont hurt other people or infringe their freedoms). This is called freedom and since you are socialist and against freedom the OPs list is validated


THREAD CLOSED

Socialists fail

Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike.  Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.

Choose:  keep some of your money or die in a heinous fashion with none of it.  Help pay for new roads, bridges, schools and technology for the common good or pay with your life.  It really doesn't bother me.  In fact, a big part of me would rather things get a whole lot worse before they get any better, because then maybe the 1% of the country that controls more than 50% of the wealth would get killed.  That would be great.

No, more likely with your wishes for things to get bad so people die, it would be the people you supposedly want to help rather than the people you want to die.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:08:58 PM
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike.  Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.


Uh... nobody is forcing anyone to work. Slavery has been gone for over 100 years. SMH at the left's logic.

That's horseshit and you know it.  To have ANY chance in this economy/society, you need to have SOME sort of job.

But you get the freedom to chose what you want to do. Or if your job sucks you can get an education.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 01:09:44 PM
How would you pay for that education?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Rman on October 20, 2008, 01:10:20 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.

How are they being punished?

Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
You mean taxes right?  I sure do love having a working a sewer system, roads, water, and all that.  Hey, the internet you using now would not exist without taxpayer money.  


None of which is paid for by income tax. I pay for those through my utility bill.
Someone is not familar with the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:10:30 PM
How would you pay for that education?
I paid tuition.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:10:56 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.



Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?

Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.

Bigot.

So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P

Person from the south calling me a bigot LULZ

You didnt answer my question. Where are you from so I can hate on that region? Huh?

But yes lulz since everyone assumes southern people are bigots.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Brehvolution on October 20, 2008, 01:11:01 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.

How are they being punished?

Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
Oh, so it's like right now in the current system that I'm in a higher tax bracket than someone making minimum wage. They are forcefully taking my monies cause I make more? We've been socialist this whole time?!? :omg
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tauntaun on October 20, 2008, 01:11:26 PM
Hey beardo

hey

look at me

:lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 01:12:47 PM
How would you pay for that education?

Take out a loan that would then force you to work at a shitty job for a crappy wage, all the while making the rich richer so that they can afford a fifth car (or thirteenth like the heinous McCain family of Arizona) while you drive a '94 tercel with a shitty clutch and no A/C.  Oh, and you live in an econobox apartment that is smaller than John McCain's bathroom. 
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 01:13:21 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.



How are they being punished?

Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
Oh, so it's like right now in the current system that I'm in a higher tax bracket than someone making minimum wage. They are forcefully taking my monies cause I make more? We've been socialist this whole time?!? :omg
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:15:48 PM
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:16:20 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.



Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?

Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.

Bigot.

So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P

Person from the south calling me a bigot LULZ

You didnt answer my question. Where are you from so I can hate on that region? Huh?

But yes lulz since everyone assumes southern people are bigots.



If you dont know where I am from by now youre pretty dumb.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:16:27 PM
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.

So, still wont answer bigot?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Barry Egan on October 20, 2008, 01:16:43 PM
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books

Is there any good socialist fiction? All the best fiction is anti-socialist.



In before someone says The Jungle

Fiction.  

Fiction.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:16:48 PM
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.

So, still wont answer bigot?

I did, keep your pants on.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 20, 2008, 01:17:40 PM
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.

Subtlety isn't their thing, that's for damned sure.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Brehvolution on October 20, 2008, 01:18:16 PM
NO!  YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR!  THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH! 

It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.



How are they being punished?

Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
Oh, so it's like right now in the current system that I'm in a higher tax bracket than someone making minimum wage. They are forcefully taking my monies cause I make more? We've been socialist this whole time?!? :omg
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.
Who is going to install that?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tauntaun on October 20, 2008, 01:18:18 PM
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.

So, still wont answer bigot?

I did, keep your pants on.

 :maf

spoiler (click to show/hide)
EVERYONE SHOULD BE PANTS OFF!

:tauntaun
[close]
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:19:44 PM

Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.

So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.



Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?

Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.

Bigot.

So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P

Person from the south calling me a bigot LULZ

You didnt answer my question. Where are you from so I can hate on that region? Huh?

But yes lulz since everyone assumes southern people are bigots.



If you dont know where I am from by now youre pretty dumb.

So, since I dont try and keep tabs on where everyone lives I must be dumb? Why not honestly give me an answer? I assume California, near Berkley most likely?

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:20:08 PM
No, imagine MORE liberal
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:21:40 PM
No, imagine MORE liberal

MORE liberal than Berkley? where they kicked the Marines out of the city?

hmmm....

Do you actually live in the USA then? Not many places more liberal than that.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:22:31 PM
Haha, ok maybe not that liberal. Who would kick our own armed forces out of the city?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:24:02 PM
Haha, ok maybe not that liberal. Who would kick our own armed forces out of the city?

Well, they did and the mayor of Toledo Ohio apparantly.


But ok, if your not that Liberal, San Fran?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:25:19 PM
No, im north of Seattle.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Kestastrophe on October 20, 2008, 01:27:51 PM
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.
I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 01:29:13 PM
No, im north of Seattle.

Heh, a suburb of Seattle, or considered north Seattle? I dont know of any big American universities north of seattle. But I do know that area is considered higly Democratic. So that does make sense.

So now I must dislike the northwest. :P
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:29:41 PM
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.
I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.

Agreed. Does anyone else think that its odd that our tax code is a fucking book thats like 1000 pages long. And our constitution is like a few sheets of paper.  :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 01:29:45 PM
There's plenty of reasons to hate the northwest, specifically the wine snobs.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Kestastrophe on October 20, 2008, 01:32:10 PM
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.
I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.

Agreed. Does anyone else think that its odd that our tax code is a fucking book thats like 1000 pages long. And our constitution is like a few sheets of paper.  :lol
Exactly. It's fucking ridiculous. I interned at a CPA firm after I graduated in 2006, ugghhh.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Brehvolution on October 20, 2008, 01:32:54 PM
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.
I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.

Agreed. Does anyone else think that its odd that our tax code is a fucking book thats like 1000 pages long. And our constitution is like a few sheets of paper.  :lol
So people who did their own taxes would over pay. It's amazing how much more you get back when you itemize.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Kestastrophe on October 20, 2008, 01:34:25 PM
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.
I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.

Agreed. Does anyone else think that its odd that our tax code is a fucking book thats like 1000 pages long. And our constitution is like a few sheets of paper.  :lol
So people who did there own taxes would over pay. It's amazing how much more you get back when you itemize.
Pretty much. That and sustaining the small to mid-sized CPA firm.

Itemizing is only beneficial if it exceeds standard deduction, and I believe it's subject to % of AGI. Been a few years, but taxes are fucking stupid.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:39:43 PM
Quote
Been a few years, but taxes are fucking stupid.


:bow X1000
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 20, 2008, 01:41:55 PM
Quote
All the best fiction is anti-socialist.

from the mouths of babes... :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 01:45:14 PM
Quote
All the best fiction is anti-socialist.

from the mouths of babes... :lol

Just laying down the facts brotha.
 :punch

Seriously is there any good socialist fiction?

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on October 20, 2008, 02:33:05 PM
While the shit has already hit the fan, I will say that I'm never in favor of any one organization controlling a market.  Whether that be a government or a corporation.

Which is why I'm in favor of a mixed socialist/capitalist society.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Eric P on October 20, 2008, 03:42:53 PM
regardless of your political orientation, these threads always suck a huge amount of ass
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Eric P on October 20, 2008, 03:43:47 PM
Quote
All the best fiction is anti-socialist.

from the mouths of babes... :lol

Just laying down the facts brotha.
 :punch

Seriously is there any good socialist fiction?



http://www.fantasticmetropolis.com/i/50socialist/full/

yes, yes there is.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Madrun Badrun on October 20, 2008, 04:06:03 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 04:09:28 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 


Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 04:10:37 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 


Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding

The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things:  I saw it from my porch so I know about it.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 04:11:47 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 


Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding

The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things:  I saw it from my porch so I know about it.

wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 04:15:16 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 


Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding

The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things:  I saw it from my porch so I know about it.

wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.

Do thinking people everywhere a favor and go drink some drano, you buttfucking whore.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 04:17:33 PM
Again you dont need to swim in a pool of poo to know it sucks. But then again socialists did think communism was going to work. HAW HAW
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 04:18:06 PM
Socialism is awesome because it means I don't have to work.  Let the motivated people do the work for me, I'mma sit my ass down and watch me some My Favorite Martian.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 04:18:23 PM
Socialism is awesome because it means I don't have to work.  Let the motivated people do the work for me, I'mma sit my ass down and watch me some My Favorite Martian.

:bow
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 04:19:40 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 


Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding

The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things:  I saw it from my porch so I know about it.

wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.

Do thinking people everywhere a favor and go drink some drano, you buttfucking whore.

LOL. U Mad.

Yet again, anytime you are involved hippie, if someone's opinion doesnt exactly match yours they need to die. Taking this with your previous post about how you want things to get worse so people you dont like can die even though they wouldn't die, the people you claim to want to help would die, makes me wonder if you really arent the next Hitler.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Madrun Badrun on October 20, 2008, 04:20:49 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 


Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding

The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things:  I saw it from my porch so I know about it.

wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.

I know my opinion doesn't amount to much seeing how I've only just used the system where you've read a website on it, but heres what i think. 

While the American debate tends to be very black and white, believing in socialized medicine doesn't make you a socialist any more than believing in public education or believing in banking regulations. Hard-core libertarianism and socialism are two extremes; you can find yourself somewhere in the middle.

The Canadian system is less than perfect, but people expect too much from the government. The population is aging and health care is becoming more and more expensive. So even as various levels of government  massively increase funding, wait times and doctor shortages remain problems.

The level of health care tends to vary from province to province and region to region. In rural areas of the country, for example, it's very difficult to find a GP.


Well said.  I come from Saskatchewan which according to print outs in my doctors office, has the oldest average age of family doctors and has the least per persons.  This summer I had to go to the doctors every day for just about three months.  I can't imagine what that would have cost if someone didn't have insurance.  It isn't perfect but i would sure as hell be more happy here than in the states.   


 

posted from here:
http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=25627.0

remember this is also the place where Beardo says:

It's a sad story but please explain to me why I should be responsible for someone I never have or never will meet?

Decent humanity.  If having to wait a while longer to fix an ingrown toenail means saving someone else's life, or saving them from having to be in dept the rest of their lives don't you think maybe you should wait? 

I thought all these right-wing nuts were religious?  clearly that's not the case. 
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 20, 2008, 04:21:43 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 


Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding

The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things:  I saw it from my porch so I know about it.

wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.

Do thinking people everywhere a favor and go drink some drano, you buttfucking whore.

LOL. U Mad.

Yet again, anytime you are involved hippie, if someone's opinion doesnt exactly match yours they need to die. Taking this with your previous post about how you want things to get worse so people you dont like can die even though they wouldn't die, the people you claim to want to help would die, makes me wonder if you really arent the next Hitler.

 :lol :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 04:22:12 PM
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?"  has to be the best argument ever. 

O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this.  You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it. 


Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding

The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things:  I saw it from my porch so I know about it.

wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.

Do thinking people everywhere a favor and go drink some drano, you buttfucking whore.

LOL. U Mad.

Yet again, anytime you are involved hippie, if someone's opinion doesnt exactly match yours they need to die. Taking this with your previous post about how you want things to get worse so people you dont like can die even though they wouldn't die, the people you claim to want to help would die, makes me wonder if you really arent the next Hitler.

I'm not as charismatic, sadly.   :(
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 04:22:54 PM
Lol, cuz we're all so objective right.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 04:24:46 PM
I wish all the Republicans would die so there would be less war coverage on TV and more My Favorite Martian.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 04:25:06 PM
Father Mike, I understand you've used the system, and I openly admitted the current system America has isnt a good one either. I'm just making a point that the link is from actual Canadians like yourself.  :)

My wrath was at The Card Cheat, who goes out of his way in threads to irritate me in some way. :)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 04:26:23 PM

I'm not as charismatic, sadly.   :(


Well, keep working at it, you can do it. If thats what you want.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 04:26:27 PM
I wish all the Republicans would die so there would be less war coverage on TV and more My Favorite Martian.

 :shh
Republicans wish there was no war coverage.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 04:27:14 PM
I wish all the Republicans would die so there would be less war coverage on TV and more My Favorite Martian.

 :shh
Republicans wish there was no war coverage.

[youtube=425,350]Xwy-ZzPQw6o[/youtube]
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Eric P on October 20, 2008, 04:28:10 PM
my mother the car is better!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Mother_the_Car
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 04:28:29 PM
Socialist: raising the top tax rate from 35% to 39%

Free-Market: nationalizing the banks, massive investment in insurance agencies, limiting certain types of trades, raising the debt ceiling, and promoting government investment into stocks and bonds. And an emphasis on Red States.

It’s all so clear now!
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 20, 2008, 04:31:36 PM
Socialist: raising the top tax rate from 35% to 39%

Free-Market: nationalizing the banks, massive investment in insurance agencies, limiting certain types of trades, raising the debt ceiling, and promoting government investment into stocks and bonds. And an emphasis on Red States.

It’s all so clear now!

Socialist: Government uses force to take your money and give it to dirty lazy hippies and lazy homeless people.

Free-Market: Its your hard earned money do what you wish with it as long as you dont infringe anyone elses rights.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 04:32:43 PM
Must be neat living in a world of impossible extremes
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Madrun Badrun on October 20, 2008, 04:33:41 PM
Father Mike, I understand you've used the system, and I openly admitted the current system America has isnt a good one either. I'm just making a point that the link is from actual Canadians like yourself.  :)

My wrath was at The Card Cheat, who goes out of his way in threads to irritate me in some way. :)


People that are vocal tend to be the ones dissatisfied of against something. 

Only a very small, and I mean small minority of Canadians think medicare is a bad thing.  We all think it needs a good overhaul, and soon,  but we will never get rid of it. 

I have no idea where this false dilemma of comes from where people think it's pure socialism to want public healthcare.  Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist? 
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 20, 2008, 04:35:12 PM
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.

You read things, and you believe them. Fine, we all do that. But then you actually use your extensive knowledge on the topic as a base for argument. Well, we all do that too. But at some point, most of us know well enough to sit down and shut up about it when in the presence of people who know more. That is apparently an ability that you just plain lack. Go live somewhere else for a while, get some experience with these strange ideals and how they affect the daily lives of the people who live under these systems, and then make your argument for or against. Or by all means, stick to what you're doing now, but at least realize that you don't really know anything.

Father Mike, I understand you've used the system, and I openly admitted the current system America has isnt a good one either. I'm just making a point that the link is from actual Canadians like yourself.  :)

My wrath was at The Card Cheat, who goes out of his way in threads to irritate me in some way. :)


People that are vocal tend to be the ones dissatisfied of against something. 

Only a very small, and I mean small minority of Canadians think medicare is a bad thing.  We all think it needs a good overhaul, and soon,  but we will never get rid of it. 

I have no idea where this false dilemma of comes from where people think it's pure socialism to want public healthcare.  Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist? 

To some guys, it's always going to be Freedom Fries vs Communist. It must be nice to have such a clear cut, easily embraced or rejected view of things. It's just a shame that's not how things really are.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Eric P on October 20, 2008, 04:36:15 PM

I have no idea where this false dilemma of comes from where people think it's pure socialism to want public healthcare.  Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist? 

i could name a few gaffers
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 04:41:25 PM
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.

You read things, and you believe them. Fine, we all do that. But then you actually use your extensive knowledge on the topic as a base for argument. Well, we all do that too. But at some point, most of us know well enough to sit down and shut up about it when in the presence of people who know more. That is apparently an ability that you just plain lack. Go live somewhere else for a while, get some experience with these strange ideals and how they affect the daily lives of the people who live under these systems, and then make your argument for or against. Or by all means, stick to what you're doing now, but at least realize that you don't really know anything.

To some guys, it's always going to be Freedom Fries vs Communist. It must be nice to have such a clear cut, easily embraced or rejected view of things. It's just a shame that's not how things really are.



how about you go fuck yourself? nowhere in that post was anything directed to you or at you. The Card Cheat can take up for himself just fine, and has done so plenty of times, lol. You showing up and being a pretentious ass just makes you more of a prick. Also, apparantly you didnt fully read the post, or you'd see that the part about it being from Canadians was directed to Card Cheat, not Father mike.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 20, 2008, 04:52:07 PM
Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist? 

Well, Federally funded schools dont work.  The schools are given a list of things that HAVE to be covered or they lose their federal money, which basically kills the school if that happens.  The problem? The American school system is broken already. Teachers have no way to force students to learn. This is a combination of many things. Lack of ability to discipline students. The decay of parental guidance on the importance of school. And many more such things.

Private schools run much better and have a much better graduation rate and college acceptance percentage than public schools. But then again, the big difference between the two? One has federal guidelines they have to follow and try and teach each quarter/semester/year, whereas the other is a pay to attend and thus makes parents much more liekyl to be concerned with their child's schooling.

But federally funded schools are technically a social program.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tieno on October 20, 2008, 05:32:31 PM
Gayhun are your nightmares filled with commies?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 05:36:09 PM
I think it's awesome that in the same year, we are going to get both Chinese Democracy and American Communism.  They've both been a long time comin'.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 20, 2008, 07:17:32 PM
I think it's awesome that in the same year, we are going to get both Chinese Democracy and American Communism.  They've both been a long time comin'.
 

I still won't believe Chinese Democracy is coming out until I see it in a Best Buy.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: brawndolicious on October 20, 2008, 07:39:52 PM
Posting that list and trying to start a discussion about it is stupid.  I don't know of any western country with socialist principles that is remotely like that and it's obvious that a US president in 2008 isn't going to either fully embrace socialism or capitalism.  I want a president that is at least willing to admit that economically, both ideas suck.  You need a little of each with a shitload of original thought.
This socialist owns four guns.  There goes that theory.
But minorities are the victim of gun violence at a far greater rate than whites. Why do you hate minorities?
SMH
But whites are at far greater risk of suicide by gun.  Why do you hate yourself so much?

Also, I believe that Berkeley only kicked out the Marines' recruiters.  Teens in Berkeley either go to a ivy league school or a ghetto school, so not a lot of people are going to believe the recruiters' bullshit about how badass you could be with a computer job NOWHERE NEAR IRAQ.  I've never seen anybody it Berkeley dislike the whole Marine corps but everybody of course hated the Iraq war ever since it started.

It also makes no sense to say private schools are better because of graduation rates or college acceptance rates.  Having a universal curriculum should be the main priority.  Texan history textbook publishers are lobbied not to say that the battle at the Alamo was a fight for slavery.  That's sort of an important event during the time period mainly because of the reason it happened but Texans don't wanna know that!  Darkies are OUR FREINDZZZZ!

Copy and paste that problem 50 times and you see a not so neglible problem.  You need to teach students that there are more shocking "sins" than a dude sucking another dude.  That means that either the school's curriculum has to actually teach kids something or you need to show the kids 2girls1cup every day.  For 12 years.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: max_cool on October 20, 2008, 09:24:54 PM
Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist? 

Well, Federally funded schools dont work.  The schools are given a list of things that HAVE to be covered or they lose their federal money, which basically kills the school if that happens.  The problem? The American school system is broken already. Teachers have no way to force students to learn. This is a combination of many things. Lack of ability to discipline students. The decay of parental guidance on the importance of school. And many more such things.

Private schools run much better and have a much better graduation rate and college acceptance percentage than public schools. But then again, the big difference between the two? One has federal guidelines they have to follow and try and teach each quarter/semester/year, whereas the other is a pay to attend and thus makes parents much more liekyl to be concerned with their child's schooling.

But federally funded schools are technically a social program.

I'm sure the disparity  in performance among private and public schools has nothing to do with wealth inequalities and everything to do with the evil gubment. I mean, a single mother should be able to work two jobs and provide as high of quality of care and education to her child/children as a family that has two parents, only one of whom works because he/she makes enough to support them all. Obviously the single mother is just lazy.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 10:06:27 PM
Teachers really need to get paid more, for starters. I mean their classrooms are overloaded, in some cases they have to buy supplies from their own pocket for the kids, AND the govt requires that they take tests constantly to validate their existence. Not just that, but you dont get paid shit until you have like a goddamned masters, and this is gradeschool level crap. Its really stupid what is asked of teachers. No wonder they burn the fuck out in 2 years and quit.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 21, 2008, 12:09:43 AM
You'd think from what all republicans say Obama was PURE SOCIALISM.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 21, 2008, 12:11:44 AM
the republican fear of socialism is an implicit acknowledgment that they themselves are not elite material :tophat
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 21, 2008, 12:45:38 AM
I wonder how much michael moore would cost the canadian healthcare system if he lived there.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: laesperanzapaz on October 21, 2008, 12:51:01 AM
wow what a shithold of a thread

i still welcome you conservativs among our fold

in any case, i despise unflinching conservatives such as yoruself just as i despies unflinching liberals.

i learned through life that i don't really have the patience for people who put ideology over this complex, gritty thing called 'reality'

- it's so amusing to see conservatives are comparing Cuban/NK-style Stalinist socialism with European/Canadian notions of welfare democracy, or socialist democracy.  Does it make sense if I compare your RonPaulian libertarian right wing paradise with Nazi Germany?

- conservatives proudly and smugly boast against the evils of too much presence of the government.  Yet they quickly deny or - more often, do not mention at all the evils of too much control from the private corporation...whose influence can be just as good or bad as government.  Government answers to the people.  I will repeat this:

Pros:
Government elected by the people and governed by agreed-upon rules - Constitution, laws, etc - exists by the people, for the people. 

Similarly, private entities compete to bring the best fruits of competition, and results in wonderful, groundbreaking advances in many many industries, for the benefit of society in general.


Yet, as with reality, as with life, there are the dark sides, when it is taken too far:
- Government in excess can take you to China, or places where Govt has too much power. To the detriment of society.

- Private entities can also have too much power, to the detriment of society.  In the US, see the health care, or teh broadband 'progress' [lol] to name just a few, to see this in effect.


There's a saying: A libertarian is the political opposite of the communist, and just as braindead. 

Lemme ask you this: what do a libetarian, and a communist, and fundamentalist Christian, fundamentalist atheist, a racist, a sexist, a hardcore modernist, or a pure traditionalist have in common?

Answer: they put ideology over reality.  When things don't pan out as they first predicted, they blame what's happening around them to avoid compromising their little walled garden of simple rules, unbreakable concepts, and clean theories.

Now, there's a ton of liberals at GAF, and at Evilbore, and I don't agree with alot of what they may say.  This is why I am at heart, a moderate.  I believe in the greatness of capitalism, yet greed - the engine of capitalism - sometimes involves in breaking the rules to the significant detriment of others, and sometimes collective means - what you call socialism - is necessary.



And as a parting note: it's so nice you use convenient labels like 'socialism.'  And i agree - it is arguably socialist elements in things like UHC.  So how about I return the favor and label your conservative lbieratarian principles as 'social darwinism?'  I'm sure it's only fair, no?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 21, 2008, 01:12:01 AM
The reason UHC is such a big issue is because health care is prohibitively expensive for those who don't have insurance. The summer before my second year of college, I got in a bike accident on my way to work. Banged up my chin pretty bad, but nothing major. I went to the local hospital and got stitched up, and they gave me a precautionary X-Ray. I was in and out in about an hour. Then a month later, I got a bill for something like $2200. My insurance claim was denied, because university insurance only covered me while school was in session, and my father had been laid off from Oracle due to downsizing, so we didn't have family insurance.

Do you know how much it sucks to not have health coverage? $2200 for some stitches and an X-Ray. It would have taken me a month and a half at the job I had then to make that money. What if it had been something major, like my appendix bursting? I'd have been looking at a bill of over $20,000, easily. Do you know that $20,000 is more than you'd make in a year on a minimum wage job? It's half of what a normal entry level college grad makes before taxes. This is for one procedure. It's fucking outrageous. Meanwhile, Big Pharma makes tens of billions of dollars in profit annually, and the hospital industry makes tens of billions more, and we pay twice what other countries pay for the same care. Fuck that.

I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone who says we don't need UHC gets pretty good coverage from their employer, university or parents.

You are obviously a dirty poor librul....jesus, get a job and then you can have some health insurance.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 21, 2008, 01:14:50 AM
Didnt you hear, McCain will give you a WHOLE 5000 dollars to buy health insurance.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: brawndolicious on October 21, 2008, 02:02:41 AM
I agree with the conservatives that a completely socialist system would be bad because if the government is capable of giving you everything that you want, then it's also capable of take everything away from you.  The best system would be the government only giving you what you need to reach the career that you want (as long as it's realistic).  Giving government-funded healthcare and education makes society makes society a lot more stable.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: laesperanzapaz on October 21, 2008, 02:14:08 AM
i support only practical, most basic services being mandated and provided by govt

such as basic education [however you define that is up for debate]
and basic health care [ditto]
the military [again, up for debate as to the extent of militarization we really need]
i'm sure i'm missing something else, but that all i can come up right now

the fact is, if the individualist approach results in most or all people getting collectively screwed in the name of outcompeting each other, then the collectivist approach is the answer.  It's really basic Economics 101. I believe you call it the Prisoner's dilemma.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Fresh Prince on October 21, 2008, 02:14:44 AM
I'm not quite sure what this threads supposed to be about. Most of the people on the left know that communism and to a lesser extent socialism does not work thank to the failure of the USSR. And if the recent finacial crisis has shown us unrestrained capatilism does not work either.

Most rational people realise you need a mix between socialism and capatilism for a functioning democracy.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 03:21:50 AM
Private schools run much better and have a much better graduation rate and college acceptance percentage than public schools. But then again, the big difference between the two? One has federal guidelines they have to follow and try and teach each quarter/semester/year, whereas the other is a pay to attend and thus makes parents much more liekyl to be concerned with their child's schooling.

No, the big difference is that the students at private schools come from families that can afford to send their kids to private schools.

There is an absolutely huge correlation between class* and academic success no matter what type of school.  It's crazy disingenuous to act like private schools get a higher graduation rate out of their trust fund kids than inner city schools get out of their welfare cases because of the Invisible Hand of the Market.



*Income/wealth of the parents, along with wealth of the grandparents and income/wealth of the classmates' parents being used as the closest proxy of "class".
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: demi on October 21, 2008, 03:25:01 AM
Didnt you hear, McCain will give you a WHOLE 5000 dollars to buy health insurance.

Health Insurance? That's a big screen TV and a whole ton of vidya games.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 03:30:07 AM
Didnt you hear, McCain will give you a WHOLE 5000 dollars to buy health insurance.

Health Insurance? That's a big screen TV and a whole ton of vidya games.

Actually, you only get $2,500.  $5,000 is for families.  And you don't get it; it goes right to the insurance company from the govt.

So what you need is a street urchin willing to pretend to be your kid, and a Best Buy willing to pretend to be an HMO.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: demi on October 21, 2008, 03:32:18 AM
Oh well that sounds like work to me. What do you think this is.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 03:34:50 AM
Oh well that sounds like work to me. What do you think this is.

Demi, just please, chop off my legs and an arm and poke out an eye.  Once I am finally free, you can fuck my mouth, my ass, my eye socket.  I'll even give you a cut of my SS.  All yours, baby.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 08:38:59 AM
I wonder how much michael moore would cost the canadian healthcare system if he lived there.

Nah, Michael Moore doesnt bother with Canada, he's a fan of Cuba's healthcare.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 08:41:34 AM
Posting that list and trying to start a discussion about it is stupid. 

If you think the list and a discussion about it is stpuid, then obviously you are even more stupid for taking your time, since you think its stupid, to come and post about it. :)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 08:44:24 AM
Does it make sense if I compare your RonPaulian libertarian right wing paradise with Nazi Germany?



No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 21, 2008, 09:21:45 AM
wow what a shithold of a thread

i still welcome you conservativs among our fold

in any case, i despise unflinching conservatives such as yoruself just as i despies unflinching liberals.

i learned through life that i don't really have the patience for people who put ideology over this complex, gritty thing called 'reality'

- conservatives proudly and smugly boast against the evils of too much presence of the government.  Yet they quickly deny or - more often, do not mention at all the evils of too much control from the private corporation...whose influence can be just as good or bad as government.  Government answers to the people.  I will repeat this:

Pros:
Government elected by the people and governed by agreed-upon rules - Constitution, laws, etc - exists by the people, for the people. 

Similarly, private entities compete to bring the best fruits of competition, and results in wonderful, groundbreaking advances in many many industries, for the benefit of society in general.


Yet, as with reality, as with life, there are the dark sides, when it is taken too far:
- Government in excess can take you to China, or places where Govt has too much power. To the detriment of society.

- Private entities can also have too much power, to the detriment of society.  In the US, see the health care, or teh broadband 'progress' [lol] to name just a few, to see this in effect.



Now, there's a ton of liberals at GAF, and at Evilbore, and I don't agree with alot of what they may say.  This is why I am at heart, a moderate.  I believe in the greatness of capitalism, yet greed - the engine of capitalism - sometimes involves in breaking the rules to the significant detriment of others, and sometimes collective means - what you call socialism - is necessary.

I agree with most of what you say, but I'd like to make a couple of points.  First the bolded, I can't say government has served the people these past eight years, perhaps some tried and just did a poor job, and this includes members of both parties.   I too believe in capitalism.  It did afterall help build the greatest nation on earth, however I can point out three reasons of its recent failures.  Corruption, Piss poor leadership, and IMO our education system that continues to decline and I'll explain why.  Empowering the individual for success is one benefit of capitalism, but if that individual has a poor education the chances of them obtaining that success isn't good.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 21, 2008, 10:22:45 AM
I love the lefts logic. Government works for the people. Except when I disagree with it (Iraq war) then its controlled by greedy corporations.



 :lol

Quote
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist.

HAHAHAHAHA
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: drohne on October 21, 2008, 11:53:07 AM
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/__i6oNWoq_I0/SPwwx9Z22OI/AAAAAAAAAmI/fyqFANVyJOY/s1600/Pyramid_of_Capitalist_System.jpg)

:bow capitalism :bow2

brb must go consume for the dirty poorletariat nom nom nom
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Crushed on October 21, 2008, 11:55:01 AM
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)

um

you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 21, 2008, 11:58:01 AM
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)

um

you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right

Just proof that communists and socialists are so dumb they dont even understand their own political philosophy.



spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nazism, a short name for National Socialism
[close]


Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 21, 2008, 11:59:03 AM
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)

um

you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right

Just proof that communists and socialists are so dumb they dont even understand their own political philosophy.



spoiler (click to show/hide)
Nazism, a short name for National Socialism
[close]




 :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 21, 2008, 12:02:46 PM
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)

um

you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right

It really is simpleton logic to call the Nazis socialist; which I am guessing is because the word 'Socialist' was in the name.  In reality Nazis had a hodgegodge economic theory that included tenets of capitalism and socialism...anything that they thought would work.  Hitler himself said that "The basic feature of our economic theory is that we have no theory at all." 

But I digress....it is much more fun to make fun of the topic at hand than to take it seriously.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 21, 2008, 12:03:36 PM
It really is simpleton logic to call the Nazis socialist; which I am guessing is because the word 'Socialist' was in the name.

Then I guess socialists are simpletons.  :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 21, 2008, 12:05:01 PM
It really is simpleton logic to call the Nazis socialist; which I am guessing is because the word 'Socialist' was in the name.

Then I guess socialists are simpletons.  :lol

Were you born with a brain stem?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 12:08:01 PM
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)

um

you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right

National Socialist German Workers' Party

The party itself was socialist, but just as in Russia, a totalitarian regime was created. Stalin ruled Russia, Hitler Germany. The hatred was more of a fact that Hitler, and also the Nazi party, didn't believe in Marxist principles and believed Communism to be the work of Jews.


also: One of the big tenets of the Nazi party was socialism for pure Germans.

From Wikipedia:

the party's socialist policy was meant to give social welfare to German citizens deemed part of the Aryan race
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 21, 2008, 12:13:18 PM
Stalin killed more of his own people than Hitler did during all of WW2.  :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Crushed on October 21, 2008, 12:13:42 PM
National Socialist German Workers' Party

Right, except it really wasn't a "socialist workers' party" at all.

also: One of the big tenets of the Nazi party was socialism for pure Germans.

From Wikipedia:

the party's socialist policy was meant to give social welfare to German citizens deemed part of the Aryan race

My God, welfare! They're practically communists!  :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 21, 2008, 12:15:27 PM
National Socialist German Workers' Party


National Socialist German Workers' Party


National Socialist German Workers' Party


Socialist


Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Crushed on October 21, 2008, 12:16:16 PM
National Socialist German Workers' Party

What was socialist about them? They appealed to the middle class and protected capitalism.

Stalin killed more of his own people than Hitler did during all of WW2.  :lol

Nobody's defending Stalinism or communism.  ???
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 21, 2008, 12:18:07 PM
You were born with a brain stem.  Holy Jesus.  :(



Crushed:  Oddly enough for such a socialist country the middle class in Germany saw more economic gain than any other economic group - doesn't sound like the Germans liked dirty poors in their version of socialism much.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 21, 2008, 12:18:29 PM
Yeah, that welfare system was basically the extent of it. You realize that guys are parodies of yourselves at this point, right? I can't for a second believe that you guys are honestly this stupid, so this must just be the too typical right wing noise campaign.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Beardo on October 21, 2008, 12:20:55 PM
u mad?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Crushed on October 21, 2008, 12:22:27 PM
A middle-class group that hated Marxist ideologies and that really didn't do anything "socialist" apart from welfare and some nationalization, neither of which are inherently socialist from definition. So you guys are trying to call them socialists for the heck of it, despite the fact that they really didn't do any of the Marxist things you hate so much.

The Nazis were repugnant because of their racial and totalitarian ideologies, not their hodge-podge economic policy.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 21, 2008, 12:23:23 PM
u mad?

Not mad.  Just amazed that your parents decided to keep you instead of putting you in a landfill.  I always thought it weird when parents of dead babies brought home the fetus.  I guess their reward is in heaven.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 21, 2008, 12:23:26 PM
u mad?

Troubled, if anything. Either you're pushing one of the most pathetic "argumentative" techniques known to man, or you're an honest fucking idiot. In either case, reason is clearly out.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 21, 2008, 12:26:09 PM
A middle-class group that hated Marxist ideologies and that really didn't do anything "socialist" apart from welfare and some nationalization, neither of which are inherently socialist from definition. So you guys are trying to call them socialists for the heck of it, despite the fact that they really didn't do any of the Marxist things you hate so much.

The Nazis were repugnant because of their racial and totalitarian ideologies, not their hodge-podge economic policy.

But dude, it's in the name! Never mind if the argument makes sense, let's holler about it anyway and hope that people will let us win by simply walking away from the argument noise.

How very Republican.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Crushed on October 21, 2008, 12:30:38 PM
But dude, it's in the name! Never mind if the argument makes sense, let's holler about it anyway and hope that people will let us win by simply walking away from the argument noise.

How very Republican.

I wonder what Beardo and Ganhyun think of the Democratic-Republican Party. I mean, THE NAME! IT'S SO CONFUSING. THEY MUST HAVE BEEN ONE OR THE OTHER.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 12:33:04 PM
But dude, it's in the name! Never mind if the argument makes sense, let's holler about it anyway and hope that people will let us win by simply walking away from the argument noise.

How very Republican.

I wonder what Beardo and Ganhyun think of the Democratic-Republican Party. I mean, THE NAME! IT'S SO CONFUSING. THEY MUST HAVE BEEN ONE OR THE OTHER.

Wow, what a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow to go the router of a known socialist on this board.

Democratic party: Commonly liberal members, some extreme, some moderate.

Republican party: Commonly conservative. Some extreme, some moderate.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 21, 2008, 12:35:48 PM
I think his point was that just because the word is in the name doesn't mean that is what they stand for.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 12:37:22 PM
Crushed, you do know that Nazis also blamed Capitalists and Capitalism for Germany's problems as well right?

They also promised a Third Option between Capitalism and Communism, which by definition of Marx is Socialism.

Granted, its not pure socialism, as many have pointed out, but the party was still socialistic in its ideals for pure Germans.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 12:38:16 PM
Marx said that any option that wasn't capitalism or communism must be socialism?

Wha?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Crushed on October 21, 2008, 12:43:57 PM
Wow, what a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow to go the router of a known socialist on this board.
Democratic party: Commonly liberal members, some extreme, some moderate.

Republican party: Commonly conservative. Some extreme, some moderate.

The Democratic-Republican Party was a party created by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison to oppose the Federalists.

The modern Democratic Party can trace its history back to it.

Crushed, you do know that Nazis also blamed Capitalists and Capitalism for Germany's problems as well right?

They blamed communism and Jewish business-owners. Capitalism was fine as long as it was in the hand of Germans.

They also promised a Third Option between Capitalism and Communism, which by definition of Marx is Socialism.

The Nazis did not promise socialism as a step from capitalism into communism, which is what Marx proposed.

PS: Marx did not invent socialism, nor is he the all-knowing master of it.

Granted, its not pure socialism, as many have pointed out, but the party was still socialistic in its ideals for pure Germans.

How was it socialistic?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 21, 2008, 12:54:03 PM
How old is Ganhyun, like 15?

Cause only rich white oligarchs and blind middle schoolers legit believe this shit :/
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 12:58:28 PM
Wow, what a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow to go the router of a known socialist on this board.
Democratic party: Commonly liberal members, some extreme, some moderate.

Republican party: Commonly conservative. Some extreme, some moderate.

The Democratic-Republican Party was a party created by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison to oppose the Federalists.

The modern Democratic Party can trace its history back to it.

Crushed, you do know that Nazis also blamed Capitalists and Capitalism for Germany's problems as well right?

They blamed communism and Jewish business-owners. Capitalism was fine as long as it was in the hand of Germans.

They also promised a Third Option between Capitalism and Communism, which by definition of Marx is Socialism.

The Nazis did not promise socialism as a step from capitalism into communism, which is what Marx proposed.

PS: Marx did not invent socialism, nor is he the all-knowing master of it.

Granted, its not pure socialism, as many have pointed out, but the party was still socialistic in its ideals for pure Germans.

How was it socialistic?


From Wikipedia:
"This Nazi party came to power in the aftermath of the Great Depression, seeking a Third Way, in 1933, which they blamed on capitalists and promised a "Third Position" between capitalism and communism."

If you go by Marx's theory, socialism is the step between the two.  You don't obviously, so its a wash.

So yes, while Jews were also blamed, they were not the ONLY blame.

As far as the Democratic-Republican parties, Yes I know when the party was founded. I am telling you what they are today. Why not throw out the mention of other parties throughout history?


"Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy."

So, Nazi's promising a third way and being nationalistic in that only Pure Germans could have businesses and such isnt a form of socialism?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 01:01:59 PM
If you go by Marx's theory, socialism is the step between the two.

Uh, so far as I know socialism was a transitional step from capitalism to communism, not just any system which is neither.

Where's tennin when you need him?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Crushed on October 21, 2008, 01:14:26 PM
From Wikipedia:
"This Nazi party came to power in the aftermath of the Great Depression, seeking a Third Way, in 1933, which they blamed on capitalists and promised a "Third Position" between capitalism and communism."

If you go by Marx's theory, socialism is the step between the two.  You don't obviously, so its a wash.

So yes, while Jews were also blamed, they were not the ONLY blame.

That doesn't explain how they're socialists. Politics isn't a straight line between "free market" and "Stalinism." Something can be different from pure capitalism and pure communism without being socialist.

As far as the Democratic-Republican parties, Yes I know when the party was founded. I am telling you what they are today. Why not throw out the mention of other parties throughout history?

Why were you telling me what they are today? I was making fun of the fact that you thought the name meant they were "socialists" in the modern Marxist sense. Democratic-Republicans have no connection to modern Republicans, despite sharing the word.

"Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy."

So, Nazi's promising a third way and being nationalistic in that only Pure Germans could have businesses and such isnt a form of socialism?

Nationalization is not the same as being nationalistic.

Furthermore, just because you can identify elements within Nazi economics that could be considered "socialist" in some way, does not make the government socialist.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 21, 2008, 01:15:20 PM
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 01:40:09 PM
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.

no, we just got tired of seeing nothing but Obama-Jesus he can do no wrong anyone who disagrees is stupid and doesn't deserve to live shit from you guys.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 21, 2008, 01:41:15 PM
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.

no, we just got tired of seeing nothing but Obama-Jesus he can do no wrong anyone who disagrees is stupid and doesn't deserve to live shit from you guys.



No one is saying he's Jesus.  We just, you know, agree with him.  With logic.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 01:41:43 PM
"Help, help.  I'm being repressed!"
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 21, 2008, 01:42:45 PM
"Help, help.  I'm being repressed!"


 :rofl
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 01:43:16 PM
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.

no, we just got tired of seeing nothing but Obama-Jesus he can do no wrong anyone who disagrees is stupid and doesn't deserve to live shit from you guys.



No one is saying he's Jesus.  We just, you know, agree with him.  With logic.

Yes, you agree so anything he says, does, or stands for is logically correct. Anyone who disagrees is attacked and made fun of. Go ahead and clain you guys dont do that.

Mandark just did it based off my asshole response to MAF.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 21, 2008, 01:43:52 PM
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.

no, we just got tired of seeing nothing but Obama-Jesus he can do no wrong anyone who disagrees is stupid and doesn't deserve to live shit from you guys.


???

it's really hard to pray to an idol only republicans seem to see
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 21, 2008, 01:47:46 PM
Keep trying to take that argument.  A lot of us here have noted that Obama swung oddly to the middle during the summer, something that none of us were big fans of (FISA).  Some of us aren't fans of his VP candidate, he talks more shit than he needs to.  Regardless of what you think, we aren't sucking this man's dick as much as you think.

But on the other hand, this is a man who is playing politics as politics SHOULD be played.  Cleanly, but not too afraid to respond back to ridiculous claims.  Puts his ideas out there instead of grey-area "I promise you this!" as McCain has done.  Admits his faults and acknowledges his weaknesses but promises to try and learn.

Colin Powell said it best.  He's a transformational figure for this country in a time when we need such a person.  John McCain once was a respectable conservative who was understanding to both sides.  He's been changed completely.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 01:50:43 PM
Ganhyun:  Boo hoo.

I could give a flip about someone criticizing Obama (which I myself have done OMG unbias cred!).

But I don't have a ton of patience for people who act like being in the minority on an internet forum is the same thing as speaking truth to power.  Don't believe me?  Ask MAF himself, who was known to spend a bit of time on the ol' e-cross in his day.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 02:06:29 PM
Ganhyun:  Boo hoo.

I could give a flip about someone criticizing Obama (which I myself have done OMG unbias cred!).

But I don't have a ton of patience for people who act like being in the minority on an internet forum is the same thing as speaking truth to power.  Don't believe me?  Ask MAF himself, who was known to spend a bit of time on the ol' e-cross in his day.

No, but the funny thing is, on here, being in the minority gets you personally attacked by admitted socialists and those who support Obama. :) Or am I imagining you and card cheat constantly attacking me whenever I post something that doesnt match your view of the world?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 21, 2008, 02:07:40 PM
we attack each other for liking chris nolan movies, or playing games on a nintendo console, captain butthurt. get over yourself!
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 21, 2008, 02:10:24 PM
we attack each other for liking chris nolan movies, or playing games on a nintendo console, captain butthurt. get over yourself!

You're specifically referring to me aren't you  :'(
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 02:13:38 PM
Hm.

Ganhyun posted this topic after Googling for "socialism sucks" "reasons socialism sucks" or "why socialism sucks".  But I can't be sure which one it was.

So how about it, Ganhyun?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: huckleberry on October 21, 2008, 02:15:27 PM
Hm.

Ganhyun posted this topic after Googling for "socialism sucks" "reasons socialism sucks" or "why socialism sucks".  But I can't be sure which one it was.

So how about it, Ganhyun?


This is why I made a mockery of the op on the first page.  It was so obvious that none of the tenets in his post were original or thought out - in any way. 
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 02:16:33 PM
Not just that, but the link in the OP is the #3 result for "socialism sucks" and the #1 result for "why socialism sucks" and "reasons socialism sucks".

There's a definite modus operandi here.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 02:20:06 PM
Hm.

Ganhyun posted this topic after Googling for "socialism sucks" "reasons socialism sucks" or "why socialism sucks".  But I can't be sure which one it was.

So how about it, Ganhyun?

nope.

I personally dislike socialism and wanted to post this.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on October 21, 2008, 02:22:49 PM
I'm not disputing that.

I'm saying that in order to make this thread, you googled some simple combination of words and used one of the first links you found to make some delicious copy pasta.  So?  What search terms did you use?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 02:25:42 PM
I'm not disputing that.

I'm saying that in order to make this thread, you googled some simple combination of words and used one of the first links you found to make some delicious copy pasta.  So?  What search terms did you use?

Yes, I went and searched for links for reasons or proof. You guys always ask for such. So I try and do so. What else would I use to search? MSN? Yahoo? I could but they yield shitty results.

My search term: List of reasons why socialism sucks.

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 21, 2008, 02:27:05 PM
I personally dislike socialism and wanted to post this.

It's interesting how you can dislike a system that you don't seem to really understand beyond its most basic, unrefined principles, as has been made brutally obvious by how this topic has moved from the supposed horrors of health-care in Canada and other social-democratic systems to the "socialist" in "National Socialist." Wikiducation strikes again.

My search term: List of reasons why socialism sucks.

Er, is there a good reason as to why you couldn't make your own list?

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 02:28:14 PM
I personally dislike socialism and wanted to post this.

It's interesting how you can dislike a system that you don't seem to really understand beyond its most basic, unrefined principles, as has been made brutally obvious by how this topic has moved from the supposed horrors of health-care in Canada and other social-democratic systems to the "socialist" in "National Socialist." Wikiducation strikes again.


Go fuck off and die bitch.

Edit:

Because I felt like it.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: duckman2000 on October 21, 2008, 02:31:48 PM
I personally dislike socialism and wanted to post this.

It's interesting how you can dislike a system that you don't seem to really understand beyond its most basic, unrefined principles, as has been made brutally obvious by how this topic has moved from the supposed horrors of health-care in Canada and other social-democratic systems to the "socialist" in "National Socialist." Wikiducation strikes again.


Go fuck off and die bitch.

Edit:

Because I felt like it.

How very Republican of a response. And another one, too! What are you, 12?  :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 21, 2008, 02:40:03 PM
obtaining information is very different from creating knowledge. just thought i'd point out the obvious for the slow learners.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 03:33:45 PM
So since no one has provided any clear reasons why socialism doesn't suck, can we conclude that it does suck?

Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 21, 2008, 03:39:30 PM
So since no one has provided any clear reasons why socialism doesn't suck, can we conclude that it does suck?



What the fuck do you think the other 6 pages were?

Christ do you read?
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Ganhyun on October 21, 2008, 03:40:29 PM
So since no one has provided any clear reasons why socialism doesn't suck, can we conclude that it does suck?



What the fuck do you think the other 6 pages were?

Christ do you read?



 :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol :lol
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 21, 2008, 03:42:30 PM
Oh, okay.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: elektrikluv on October 21, 2008, 03:50:44 PM
The Nazis started out as socialists (before Hitler became leader), but then realised they needed to appeal to the middle and upper classes if they wanted to gain electoral support so changed their 25 points considerably and ended up very much not socialist. Like there was one point about confiscation of land and it being distributed by the government, which was then changed to confiscation of illegal land acquired unlawfully.

And can I just say the list is really very bullshit. Its taking every extreme, which can equally be taken for the right. 'promotes laziness', well then, the far right promotes greed.
Its like a list for Stalin's communist rule or something and is based on complete presumptions, like Europeans flocking to America for specialised healthcare, something I've never heard of. And why the hell would Europeans flock to America? Seriously, perfectly great specialised healthcare here. My mum was diagnosed with breast cancer, instantly refered to a specialist who talked her through her options, 2 weeks later had her masectomy operation plus reconstruction surgery, all for free and in prompt time, no waits, no nothing.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: brawndolicious on October 21, 2008, 04:18:09 PM
Posting that list and trying to start a discussion about it is stupid. 

If you think the list and a discussion about it is stpuid, then obviously you are even more stupid for taking your time, since you think its stupid, to come and post about it. :)
You want people to look at a bullshit list to see all of your points?   When people on this board talk about socialism in America, they're talking about specific socialistic principles adopted by nearly every other western country.  Nobody here thinks that Cuba or Nazi Germany was perfect.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 21, 2008, 04:20:38 PM
I think extremes in either direction are bad, but to suggest the demos are goin pure soc is LOL
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Tauntaun on October 21, 2008, 04:46:20 PM
I think extremes in either direction are bad, but to suggest the demos are goin pure soc is LOL

IDK why but this made me think of CoD4. :gun 
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: laesperanzapaz on October 22, 2008, 12:41:42 AM
wow what a shithold of a thread

i still welcome you conservativs among our fold

in any case, i despise unflinching conservatives such as yoruself just as i despies unflinching liberals.

i learned through life that i don't really have the patience for people who put ideology over this complex, gritty thing called 'reality'

- conservatives proudly and smugly boast against the evils of too much presence of the government.  Yet they quickly deny or - more often, do not mention at all the evils of too much control from the private corporation...whose influence can be just as good or bad as government.  Government answers to the people.  I will repeat this:

Pros:
Government elected by the people and governed by agreed-upon rules - Constitution, laws, etc - exists by the people, for the people. 

Similarly, private entities compete to bring the best fruits of competition, and results in wonderful, groundbreaking advances in many many industries, for the benefit of society in general.


Yet, as with reality, as with life, there are the dark sides, when it is taken too far:
- Government in excess can take you to China, or places where Govt has too much power. To the detriment of society.

- Private entities can also have too much power, to the detriment of society.  In the US, see the health care, or teh broadband 'progress' [lol] to name just a few, to see this in effect.



Now, there's a ton of liberals at GAF, and at Evilbore, and I don't agree with alot of what they may say.  This is why I am at heart, a moderate.  I believe in the greatness of capitalism, yet greed - the engine of capitalism - sometimes involves in breaking the rules to the significant detriment of others, and sometimes collective means - what you call socialism - is necessary.

I agree with most of what you say, but I'd like to make a couple of points.  First the bolded, I can't say government has served the people these past eight years, perhaps some tried and just did a poor job, and this includes members of both parties.   I too believe in capitalism.  It did afterall help build the greatest nation on earth, however I can point out three reasons of its recent failures.  Corruption, Piss poor leadership, and IMO our education system that continues to decline and I'll explain why.  Empowering the individual for success is one benefit of capitalism, but if that individual has a poor education the chances of them obtaining that success isn't good.
Hmm, it seems we actually agree with each other more than we think.  Ac ouple points:

- first, yes, I am a huge believer in capitalism and the superiority in the market.....but ONLY as compared with other systems, such as communism, socialism, monarchy, etc.

- teh difference between many conservatives and me is that, I believe in capitalism as one of potentially numerous great solutions to practical, societal problems (education, military, or whatever whatever).  People like YOU however, seem to take capitalism as the Bible, and individual empowerment as the unchallengeable, uncriticizable, obvious, and near-flawless way to conduct society at large.  Your view on why private education is superior is so clear on your narrowmindedness.  IMO. Because so many conservatives seem to ignore important and undeniably influencial factors that disadvantage entire groups of people - ex: by race, religion, gender, etc.  In addition, mandatory public education - at least at the basic level, however you define that - prevents society from consisting of 10% who are high school graduates, 50% who barely got 5th grade education, and the rest being uneducated at all.  And THIS SITUATION is what we are seeing with health care right now.  Now, Im not an idiot: im not saying public education cannot provide underwhelming results (see todays US education, for example).  BUt whereas YOU attack the entire concept of public education in favor of private, I prefer concentrating on reforming the system....from shit idiot stuff like so many standardized tests, or No Child Left Behind bullshit.


- as for the 'government serves the people""'  comment, I am saying theoretically, that's the way its supposed to work.  Practically, govt serves the people but has its faults and flaws that are worthy of criticism (ie. instances of corruption, bribery, etc).  What conservatives seem to say, however, is that govt is ALWAYS or ALMOST ALWAYS this inefficient, lumbering cancer to civilization.  This kind of black-white, extreme, simplistic, and most of all, purely ideological view is what I find childish, extremist, and crazy.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: laesperanzapaz on October 22, 2008, 01:00:59 AM
a couple of other points:

- US as the 'greatest nation on earth'....you're gonna have to define that more specifically,  sweetie.  Do you mean US as teh greatest nation in terms of contributions to capitalism, to technology (in the 20th century, mostly), and to pioneering the idea of democracy and elections?  If so, i agree.  Do you mean GREATEST in terms of US as the morally upright, valient savior of the world for the side of goodness and the side of GOD?  Im gonna have to call you bullshit on that.  Unless we;re talking certain, specific events - like WW1 or 2, Korean War, Guf War, etc - the US has committed many attrocities and crimes that are very rarely heard or talked about among schoo textbooks.  Presidents from the liberal LBJ to the conservative RR have done things that have really really hurt other nations.

- conservatives and americans often espouse the 'work hard to succeed in life' kind of Puritanistic (?) values as found in Benj Franklins 'Almanac', and that is actually one of the greatest and most admirable attributes coming out of the US.  But I am just as likely to call out its flaws and limitations as I am to support and embrace it.  Namely, this libertarian and conservative philosophy has made them ingrained to accept among ohter things - racism and sexism, etc.  When you say 'The homeless are lazy' as a rule, when you say 'the poor have a choice to get themselves out of their rut by hard work', then this often translates not just to class ignorance, but to racist and sexist dimensions.  Example, what is the solution to so much of US black's poverty?  If your response is, 'Decrease social programs of assistance, and increase their motivations to work hard to succeed in life,' what your basically saying is, 'The reason they are poor is because they are lazy and willfully dumb, and they lack the work ethics that we whites (or asians, as I sometimes hear) have.'  It is by definition a deliberate denial that systematic, unspoken, and embedded racism exists, and that I have a huge problem.  And this includes gender too (many of the really lower class are women or single mothers as well.)

This is why the liberals and those sociologists have their pros and cons:  Their pros is they question things that libertarians seem to deny is happening.  Their cons - although this depends on your POV - is that what they propose may be too wasteful or inefficient, especially if all they propose as a solution is more govt programs.

Thats why I sometimes disagree with liberals who say the answer to all this embedded discrimination and inequality is purely more govt programs of assistance.  But at the least, they recognize there is a problem.  Unlike many conservatives, who simply deny the problem, or ridicule the victims.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: tiesto on October 22, 2008, 09:56:56 AM
I like laesapersonwhosenameicanneverspell's thoughts on this issue... I'm definitely more so a moderate than a total liberal, and think both the gov't and corps need to balance each other out.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: ShogunOfFear on October 22, 2008, 12:34:14 PM
wow what a shithold of a thread

i still welcome you conservativs among our fold

in any case, i despise unflinching conservatives such as yoruself just as i despies unflinching liberals.

i learned through life that i don't really have the patience for people who put ideology over this complex, gritty thing called 'reality'

- conservatives proudly and smugly boast against the evils of too much presence of the government.  Yet they quickly deny or - more often, do not mention at all the evils of too much control from the private corporation...whose influence can be just as good or bad as government.  Government answers to the people.  I will repeat this:

Pros:
Government elected by the people and governed by agreed-upon rules - Constitution, laws, etc - exists by the people, for the people. 

Similarly, private entities compete to bring the best fruits of competition, and results in wonderful, groundbreaking advances in many many industries, for the benefit of society in general.


Yet, as with reality, as with life, there are the dark sides, when it is taken too far:
- Government in excess can take you to China, or places where Govt has too much power. To the detriment of society.

- Private entities can also have too much power, to the detriment of society.  In the US, see the health care, or teh broadband 'progress' [lol] to name just a few, to see this in effect.



Now, there's a ton of liberals at GAF, and at Evilbore, and I don't agree with alot of what they may say.  This is why I am at heart, a moderate.  I believe in the greatness of capitalism, yet greed - the engine of capitalism - sometimes involves in breaking the rules to the significant detriment of others, and sometimes collective means - what you call socialism - is necessary.

I agree with most of what you say, but I'd like to make a couple of points.  First the bolded, I can't say government has served the people these past eight years, perhaps some tried and just did a poor job, and this includes members of both parties.   I too believe in capitalism.  It did afterall help build the greatest nation on earth, however I can point out three reasons of its recent failures.  Corruption, Piss poor leadership, and IMO our education system that continues to decline and I'll explain why.  Empowering the individual for success is one benefit of capitalism, but if that individual has a poor education the chances of them obtaining that success isn't good.
Hmm, it seems we actually agree with each other more than we think.  Ac ouple points:

- first, yes, I am a huge believer in capitalism and the superiority in the market.....but ONLY as compared with other systems, such as communism, socialism, monarchy, etc.

- teh difference between many conservatives and me is that, I believe in capitalism as one of potentially numerous great solutions to practical, societal problems (education, military, or whatever whatever).  People like YOU however, seem to take capitalism as the Bible, and individual empowerment as the unchallengeable, uncriticizable, obvious, and near-flawless way to conduct society at large.  Your view on why private education is superior is so clear on your narrowmindedness.  IMO. Because so many conservatives seem to ignore important and undeniably influencial factors that disadvantage entire groups of people - ex: by race, religion, gender, etc.  In addition, mandatory public education - at least at the basic level, however you define that - prevents society from consisting of 10% who are high school graduates, 50% who barely got 5th grade education, and the rest being uneducated at all.  And THIS SITUATION is what we are seeing with health care right now.  Now, Im not an idiot: im not saying public education cannot provide underwhelming results (see todays US education, for example).  BUt whereas YOU attack the entire concept of public education in favor of private, I prefer concentrating on reforming the system....from shit idiot stuff like so many standardized tests, or No Child Left Behind bullshit.


- as for the 'government serves the people""'  comment, I am saying theoretically, that's the way its supposed to work.  Practically, govt serves the people but has its faults and flaws that are worthy of criticism (ie. instances of corruption, bribery, etc).  What conservatives seem to say, however, is that govt is ALWAYS or ALMOST ALWAYS this inefficient, lumbering cancer to civilization.  This kind of black-white, extreme, simplistic, and most of all, purely ideological view is what I find childish, extremist, and crazy.

- US as the 'greatest nation on earth'....you're gonna have to define that more specifically,  sweetie.  Do you mean US as teh greatest nation in terms of contributions to capitalism, to technology (in the 20th century, mostly), and to pioneering the idea of democracy and elections?  If so, i agree.  Do you mean GREATEST in terms of US as the morally upright, valient savior of the world for the side of goodness and the side of GOD?  Im gonna have to call you bullshit on that.  Unless we;re talking certain, specific events - like WW1 or 2, Korean War, Guf War, etc - the US has committed many attrocities and crimes that are very rarely heard or talked about among schoo textbooks.  Presidents from the liberal LBJ to the conservative RR have done things that have really really hurt other nations.


Sorry my statement on education was brief not sure where you got the "Your view on why private education is superior is so clear on your narrowmindedness."  It has its place but I don't necessarily think it's superior.  Actually what I meant was  overall as a nation we could improve.  Math and Science are a couple of key areas that come to mind.

As for the US statement, I'm not sure one could find a morally perfect nation on this planet, I guess that depends on one's moral views.  I was referring to accomplishments like putting a man on the moon etc.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on December 12, 2008, 11:50:21 PM
Quote
Uh, so far as I know socialism was a transitional step from capitalism to communism, not just any system which is neither.

Where's tennin when you need him?

sorry, I missed this thread for whatever reason!

Marx used the words socialism and communism more or less interchangeably.  The SPD (Social Democratic Party in Germany a.k.a. Gerhard Schroeder's party) was founded as a quasi-Marxist party and was directly associated with Engels during his lifetime (they published some of his stuff, he gave a few interviews late in life acting more or less as an SPD spokesman).  They became more "moderate" over time, and eventually a large faction (Rosa Luxemburg, etc.; her Junius Pamphlet (http://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1915/junius/index.htm) pillorying the SPD's pro-war stance is a really good read) broke with them when their leadership supported WW1.  That faction went on to call itself the Communist Party and align with the Soviets.  So that may have been partly responsible for the later "communism = hard-line Marxism a la USSR, socialism = watered-down pseudo-communism via reform of existing governments" connotations.

As for "socialism = transitional stage before communism", that didn't come from Marx per se, but was a Soviet invention albeit derived from Marx's writings, specifically this passage from his Critique of the Gotha (original SPD) Program (spot the famous quote!):

Quote from: Karl Marx
Within the co-operative society based on common ownership of the means of production, the producers do not exchange their products; just as little does the labor employed on the products appear here as the value of these products, as a material quality possessed by them, since now, in contrast to capitalist society, individual labor no longer exists in an indirect fashion but directly as a component part of total labor. The phrase "proceeds of labor", objectionable also today on account of its ambiguity, thus loses all meaning.

What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges. Accordingly, the individual producer receives back from society -- after the deductions have been made -- exactly what he gives to it. What he has given to it is his individual quantum of labor. For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labor time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another.

Here, obviously, the same principle prevails as that which regulates the exchange of commodities, as far as this is exchange of equal values. Content and form are changed, because under the altered circumstances no one can give anything except his labor, and because, on the other hand, nothing can pass to the ownership of individuals, except individual means of consumption. But as far as the distribution of the latter among the individual producers is concerned, the same principle prevails as in the exchange of commodity equivalents: a given amount of labor in one form is exchanged for an equal amount of labor in another form.

Hence, equal right here is still in principle -- bourgeois right, although principle and practice are no longer at loggerheads, while the exchange of equivalents in commodity exchange exists only on the average and not in the individual case.

In spite of this advance, this equal right is still constantly stigmatized by a bourgeois limitation. The right of the producers is proportional to the labor they supply; the equality consists in the fact that measurement is made with an equal standard, labor.

But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only -- for instance, in the present case, are regarded only as workers and nothing more is seen in them, everything else being ignored. Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal.

But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged after prolonged birth pangs from capitalist society. Right can never be higher than the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby.

In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly -- only then then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!

Lenin took this "first phase/higher phase" distinction and decided to term the phases socialism/communism for some reason (maybe related to the developing connotations sketched above). 

Also, socialism was kind of a hot buzzword in the late 19th/early 20th century.  Every radical political movement that was trying to be vaguely populist in some way wanted to call themselves socialists, it was like Web 2.0 or XML.  Much like liberal or conservative, it's really rather pointless to argue the "true meaning" of these massively overloaded political buzzwords.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Mandark on December 13, 2008, 07:04:07 PM
Awesome.  It's like my own radical Marxist bat-signal!

When I'm emperor of the world, I'll give tennin the ability to edit any and all posts at The Corner.
Title: Re: Socialism sucks
Post by: Positive Touch on December 13, 2008, 08:16:22 PM
Awesome.  It's like my own radical Marxist bat-signal!

When I'm emperor of the world, I'll give tennin the ability to edit any and all posts at The Corner.

oh my god - recursively = tennin??