Do europeans flock to america for immediate specialized health care?
that is a distinguished mentally-challenged list.
:bow Freedom :bow2
:piss Socialism :piss2
that is a distinguished mentally-challenged list.
If the list is distinguished mentally-challenged, please tell me why.
Hillary Clinton is a SOCIALIST. She wants to tax you more, so she can give it back to the “victims” and the “poor” and the “minorities” and the “less fortunate”.
that is a distinguished mentally-challenged list.
If the list is distinguished mentally-challenged, please tell me why.
This is why the list is distinguished mentally-challengedQuote from: distinguished mentally-challenged fellow who made listHillary Clinton is a SOCIALIST. She wants to tax you more, so she can give it back to the “victims” and the “poor” and the “minorities” and the “less fortunate”.
well i certainly can't refute anything in that list
i'm suggesting we move to a kitten cuddle based economy instead
I can read just fine. I can follow links just fine. The statement I quoted belongs to the douche who made the FUCKING list.
Why the list sucks:
It’s a system of authoritarian political control wrong
It’s anti-freedom wrong
It’s one step away from communism wrong
Promotes laziness wrong
You own NOTHING while the government owns EVERYTHING wrong
It lets the government tell me what I can and can’t do with my money wrong
Destroys free markets wrong
It’s tyrannical wrong
It’s detrimental to individual liberty wrong
It gives losers/drug addicts/poor/homeless people a free pass wrong
Does not reward hard working individuals wrong
Does not define man as “created equally” but instead “deserves everything equally” wrong
Gives the common man no reason to excel, thrive, succeed at anything. wrong
Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more? You probably should
If it’s so great, why do Canadians, Cubans, and Europeans flock to America when they need immediate specialized health care? ….. Cause when they need help, they’re told to “Get in line!” Let's investigate further
And I generally don't favor socialism except in regards to universal health care.
So much of that list basically assumes socialism = communism. You have no freedom! No reason to thrive! Gubmint controls your wallet! The only thing that promotes laziness here is the list author's lack of effort to come up with compelling arguments.
I can read just fine. I can follow links just fine. The statement I quoted belongs to the douche who made the FUCKING list.
LOL, and as I said in my last post, The list is a valid list of reasons why Socialism sucks. Granted, the author of the list also has views on Hillary, and likely Obama as well. But his opinion of them does NOT refute the fact that the list is a valid list. so saying the list is distinguished mentally-challenged because you don't like the author's views is not valid. Giving reasons why the reasons themselves are retared would work ;)
...
Oh wait, thats right. If it were a list of reasons why McCain sucked from Huffington post, it would be fine. ::)
lol.
I can read just fine. I can follow links just fine. The statement I quoted belongs to the douche who made the FUCKING list.
LOL, and as I said in my last post, The list is a valid list of reasons why Socialism sucks. Granted, the author of the list also has views on Hillary, and likely Obama as well. But his opinion of them does NOT refute the fact that the list is a valid list. so saying the list is distinguished mentally-challenged because you don't like the author's views is not valid. Giving reasons why the reasons themselves are retared would work ;)
...
Oh wait, thats right. If it were a list of reasons why McCain sucked from Huffington post, it would be fine. ::)
lol.
I am not sure how this is a valid list of why socialism sucks. Because you say so? Here is a list of why Ganhyun sucks:
1 Your mom.
2 Your mom.
3 Your mom.
This is a valid list. Please refute why my list of why Ganhyun sucks is wrong.spoiler (click to show/hide)Now cry cry as at why I am attacking you personally so that you feel better about yourself.[close]
Why the list sucks:
It’s a system of authoritarian political control wrong
It’s anti-freedom wrong
It’s one step away from communism wrong
Promotes laziness wrong
You own NOTHING while the government owns EVERYTHING wrong
It lets the government tell me what I can and can’t do with my money wrong
Destroys free markets wrong
It’s tyrannical wrong
It’s detrimental to individual liberty wrong
It gives losers/drug addicts/poor/homeless people a free pass wrong
Does not reward hard working individuals wrong
Does not define man as “created equally” but instead “deserves everything equally” wrong
Gives the common man no reason to excel, thrive, succeed at anything. wrong
Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more? You probably should
If it’s so great, why do Canadians, Cubans, and Europeans flock to America when they need immediate specialized health care? ….. Cause when they need help, they’re told to “Get in line!” Let's investigate further
And I generally don't favor socialism except in regards to universal health care.
So much of that list basically assumes socialism = communism. You have no freedom! No reason to thrive! Gubmint controls your wallet! The only thing that promotes laziness here is the list author's lack of effort to come up with compelling arguments.
Is this a Robopost?
Is this a Robopost?
(http://www.thepeoplescube.com/images/Brain_Socialist_550.gif)
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
Dude, it's highly doubtful any of them have ever left their red states. Which will soon likely be blue states. HAW HAW HAW!
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)
What's up with all these thread from right wing bore?
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)
mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)
mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.
lol, I was thinking more of cuba and Eastern European countires and such.
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore? Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)
mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.
lol, I was thinking more of cuba and Eastern European countires and such.
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
I myself have not been to those nations, but, judging by the stories and the amount of people who want to come to America each year instead of staying in said countries gives me a good idea ;)
mexico isn't the best example of a socialist country.
lol, I was thinking more of cuba and Eastern European countires and such.
Dude I dont think you know about Cuba. In Cuba fidal himself comes to your house at night to sing you a bed time story. And if you are sick he makes his own special chicken soup.
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore? Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.Because not all people share the same opinion you do. I don't think the thread was intended to be Obama vs Bush, but about socialism in general.
:bow Freedom :bow2
:piss Socialism :piss2
:bow Tauntaun :bow2
That is actually my shtick!
:punch Tauntaun The Thief :gun
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore? Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.
lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.
I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(
The far right has NO credibility in saying that the left is socialist. Isn't the far right anti-gay and against abortion and don't they want the government to tell these people how they can live?(ie. socialism)
that government nowadays, no matter what side, tries to control as much as possible.
Ganhyun sucks, commie-scared fucker
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore? Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.
lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.
I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(
Do you really think this Socialist swing will happen during four years, eight at best or worst, depending on your point view? What are the specifics points you have against Obama's platform? Because just calling everything under the sun ''socialism'' doesn't foster critical discussion.
healthcare will be nationalized
You two do know that left doesn't = socialism, right?
There are socialist ideals in modern day practices, and then there's full-blown socialism.
Big difference.
edit: wait, what? :lolQuotethat government nowadays, no matter what side, tries to control as much as possible.
Well, aherm, point me to where there was "government control" in the last 8 years dealing with the economy.
Ganhyun sucks, commie-scared fucker
Quotehealthcare will be nationalized
I suggest you read his plan a bit more closely.
Im totally cool with this 'all the whackos stay in one thread' idea
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore? Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.
lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.
I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(
Do you really think this Socialist swing will happen during four years, eight at best or worst, depending on your point view? What are the specifics points you have against Obama's platform? Because just calling everything under the sun ''socialism'' doesn't foster critical discussion.
Well, if Obama has his way, healthcare will be nationalized or at least prepared for it really quickly. That is a form of socialism. And if you look at the Canada healthcare example I posted on the first page, you'd see a valid reason I'd like us to not go to that.
(But yes our current Healthcare does suck too)
But if possible, can we please stop derailing the thread into an Obama thread?
Quotehealthcare will be nationalized
I suggest you read his plan a bit more closely.
What's up with all these threads from right wing bore? Are you guys that afraid of a possible Obama presidency, besides conservatives really have nothing to hold on to ideologically, as the Bush Administration has to be one of the most expansive, in terms of expanding the role of the federal government, in recent times.
lol, I'm not afraid of Obama being president. In fact, ina thread predicting what would happen, I said he would win.
I just await the inevitable Socialist swing that he will invoke. :(
Do you really think this Socialist swing will happen during four years, eight at best or worst, depending on your point view? What are the specifics points you have against Obama's platform? Because just calling everything under the sun ''socialism'' doesn't foster critical discussion.
Well, if Obama has his way, healthcare will be nationalized or at least prepared for it really quickly. That is a form of socialism. And if you look at the Canada healthcare example I posted on the first page, you'd see a valid reason I'd like us to not go to that.
(But yes our current Healthcare does suck too)
But if possible, can we please stop derailing the thread into an Obama thread?
As someone pointed out in another thread, this is the way that health care works in America and Canada:
America:
Best health care in the world for those who have more money than God.
Passable health care for upper middle class folks who can afford it.
Crappy health care for regular middle class.
No health care for 1/6 of the country.
Canada:
Inconvenient, not top shelf health care for the very wealthy.
Mediocre to good health care for EVERYONE ELSE.
Gee, I wonder which one I would prefer, seeing as how I'm not richer than God and shit.
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
Dude, it's highly doubtful any of them have ever left their red states. Which will soon likely be blue states. HAW HAW HAW!
so how does this refute the argument that socialism sucks or is bad? lol.
America:
Best health care in the world for those who have more money than God.
Passable health care for upper middle class folks who can afford it.
Crappy health care for regular middle class.
No health care for 1/6 of the country.
Quotehealthcare will be nationalized
I suggest you read his plan a bit more closely.
pulled directly from Obama's plan:
Lower costs for businesses by covering a portion of the catastrophic health costs they pay in return for lower premiums for employees.
This means the government pays part of the bill for everyone? How is that not socialist? Or partly nationalized? Granted, his plan doesnt totally nationalize healthcare, I'll admit that, but where will the money come from to pay for the government paying part of the premiums for everyone in America? Taxes on the people. So to do this our taxes have to go up.
Honestly, I'd rather this part of his plan be fully implemented:
Prevent insurers from overcharging doctors for their malpractice insurance and invest in proven strategies to reduce preventable medical errors.
That and making hospitals and such show the exact amount they charge you on a bill and for what. I'm tired of a $350-500 aspirin. And other such nonsensical charges. Make that stop and the prices would drop.
On a larger scale, there's something great about knowing that whatever happens, no matter who you are or where you stand in life right now, you will be taken care of.
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem. :)
Have any of you right-wing Evilboreans actually spent a significant amount of time in nations with supposed "socialist" systems?
Dude, it's highly doubtful any of them have ever left their red states. Which will soon likely be blue states. HAW HAW HAW!
so how does this refute the argument that socialism sucks or is bad? lol.
Because you know jack shit about how it actually works, or how a functional system with such a base is like to live in. On a larger scale, there's something great about knowing that whatever happens, no matter who you are or where you stand in life right now, you will be taken care of. You will also be able to attend any university, with money being squarely a matter of financing living expenses. Income taxes are somewhat higher, but given the cost of health insurance, not to mention university level education, it more than evens out. Not the most popular system among the "elite" (particularly the "elite" which had the great foresight to be born into comfort and wealth) who are being asked to share a small portion of their wealth to support the greater society.
The systems are most certainly not perfect, and are absolutely prone to corruption. But this ridiculous "either or" attitude, particularly among privileged right wingers who have read things, is quite amusing. This either or attitude also makes it near impossible to even approach the idea of a functional middle ground, as any notion of increased social responsibility is met with a "communist!" from the bleachers on the right.
And for the sake of your own integrity, don't bring up Cuba. Not only is Cuba modeled after Soviet "socialism," which implies dictatorship and the laughable notion of people surrendering power, but it has also been actively and passively suppressed by the United States for nearly half a century now. No political system will work if the application is based on hippie theory, and certainly not if its based on the notion of selflessness.
Yes, lets make socialism look so good, yet French people riot because they cant get jobs, and socialist countries pay 60% or more on average in taxes to pay for those things.
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem. :)
I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.
1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.
2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.
3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.
I like how the republican posters on this forum flail about as much as McCain's campaign
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem. :)
I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.
1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.
2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.
3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.
you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem. :)
I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.
1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.
2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.
3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.
you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?
So, according to you, Univeral Health Care will suck and the current alternative sucks. What do you propose?
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books
I like how the republican posters on this forum flail about as much as McCain's campaignOne doesn't have to be a republican to take issues with socialism, in fact there are people in Europe that would be considered very liberal if they lived here that are against certain socialist policies. In fact the current president who is republican seems 'A OK' nationalizing banks.
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem. :)
I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.
1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.
2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.
3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.
you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?
So, according to you, Univeral Health Care will suck and the current alternative sucks. What do you propose?
That no one get sick obviously
Honestly, I have no perfect solution for healthcare.
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
Typical.
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
Typical.
Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
Typical.
Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..
lol, the south. are you at a library computer?
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
What kind of guns? I only own a .22 bolt action that I inherited from my grandfather. :gun
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
Typical.
Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..
lol, the south. are you at a library computer?
so go move to Canada and wait 12 months to see a specialist if you develop or start showing signs of asthma or some other problem. :)
I had to wait several months for a hearing test1, more waiting for the following MRI2 and many more months for surgery3. This was at one of the highest rated hospitals in the United States.
1 My first doctor made a few preliminary tests, and ruled out a tumor being the cause of the issue.
2 The MRI, which would have cost an uninsured person in excess of 3k, revealed the first diagnosis to be perfectly incorrect.
3 The bill for the surgery and hospital stay would have left an uninsured person with debt in excess of 50k. There was also a shortage of hospital beds, so I had to remain in the ICU for the entirety of my stay.
you did see where I said the current system sucked too right?
So, according to you, Univeral Health Care will suck and the current alternative sucks. What do you propose?
That no one get sick obviously
Honestly, I have no perfect solution for healthcare.
There will never be a perfect solution to anything. What I don't understand is you opposing universal health care when it attempts to provide at least some solutions, like providing health care to those who cannot afford it.
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
Typical.
Hmm, yes, someone who lives in the south, owns land, and hunts owning a gun. Imagine that..
lol, the south. are you at a library computer?
no, I own two pcs. And am at work currently using that pc.
So just because I live in the south, I must not own my own pc? Racist :P
Pretty sure that's not racism
NO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books
Is there any good socialist fiction? All the best fiction is anti-socialist.
In before someone says The Jungle
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
What kind of guns? I only own a .22 bolt action that I inherited from my grandfather. :gun
Guns :bow2
Socialists dont want people to defend themselves.
I think you mean, classist.
Yeah, the Bible doesn't count. Go buy some guns.
Wasnt talking about the Bible either.
Already own some guns.
What kind of guns? I only own a .22 bolt action that I inherited from my grandfather. :gun
NO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
This socialist owns four guns. There goes that theory.
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.This. And this fellow is proof one doesn't have to be born rich to find success.
I think you mean, classist.
Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.
Indeed.
Actually, the real difference in the way we think is that you're ok with rich people using their money to buy civilization for themselves as they choose, and I'm ok with taxing them and using some of their money to buy civilization for all.
I think you mean, classist.
Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
Yes, but instead of donating to whoever you want, wouldn't you rather be forced to donate your money to whatever the government deems necessary.
I think you mean, classist.
Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.
It's not our fault. I constantly chuckle when the uber-rich blowhards of the right cry about class warfare. Sure there's a class war going on- AND IT'S BEING WAGED AND WON BY THE RIGHT AND THE RICH. I so desperately want for a democrat, some democrat to one day respond to that charge with the truth: "Yes, I'm talking about class warfare. But it isn't a war that I chose or began- you people did. And I will end it." That would be a true leftist worth voting for.
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
NO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
I think you mean, classist.
Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.
It's not our fault. I constantly chuckle when the uber-rich blowhards of the right cry about class warfare. Sure there's a class war going on- AND IT'S BEING WAGED AND WON BY THE RIGHT AND THE RICH. I so desperately want for a democrat, some democrat to one day respond to that charge with the truth: "Yes, I'm talking about class warfare. But it isn't a war that I chose or began- you people did. And I will end it." That would be a true leftist worth voting for.spoiler (click to show/hide)(http://www.dictatorofthemonth.com/Mao/mao_main.jpg)[close]
NO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
How are they being punished?
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.
I take it you're a fascist. All embrace Soviet America!I think you mean, classist.
Class warfare! The real weapon of the left.
It's not our fault. I constantly chuckle when the uber-rich blowhards of the right cry about class warfare. Sure there's a class war going on- AND IT'S BEING WAGED AND WON BY THE RIGHT AND THE RICH. I so desperately want for a democrat, some democrat to one day respond to that charge with the truth: "Yes, I'm talking about class warfare. But it isn't a war that I chose or began- you people did. And I will end it." That would be a true leftist worth voting for.
Indeed.
Actually, the real difference in the way we think is that you're ok with rich people using their money to buy civilization for themselves as they choose, and I'm ok with taxing them and using some of their money to buy civilization for all.
No I'm ok with rich people doing whatever they want with their money (as long as they dont hurt other people or infringe their freedoms). This is called freedom and since you are socialist and against freedom the OPs list is validated
THREAD CLOSED
Socialists fail
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.
Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike. Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
Yes, but instead of donating to whoever you want, wouldn't you rather be forced to donate your money to whatever the government deems necessary.
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.
Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?
Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.
Bigot.
So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P
I'm fine with being taxed more, but I won't be. Maybe someday i'll make enough to be taxed more, and if that day comes hot dog. 250k a year of income is fucking crazy. I'd love to make so much that I could give more to the communities that made it possible.
You mean taxes right? I sure do love having a working a sewer system, roads, water, and all that. Hey, the internet you using now would not exist without taxpayer money.NO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
How are they being punished?
Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike. Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.
Uh... nobody is forcing anyone to work. Slavery has been gone for over 100 years. SMH at the left's logic.
You mean taxes right? I sure do love having a working a sewer system, roads, water, and all that. Hey, the internet you using now would not exist without taxpayer money.NO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
How are they being punished?
Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike. Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.
Uh... nobody is forcing anyone to work. Slavery has been gone for over 100 years. SMH at the left's logic.
Indeed.
Actually, the real difference in the way we think is that you're ok with rich people using their money to buy civilization for themselves as they choose, and I'm ok with taxing them and using some of their money to buy civilization for all.
No I'm ok with rich people doing whatever they want with their money (as long as they dont hurt other people or infringe their freedoms). This is called freedom and since you are socialist and against freedom the OPs list is validated
THREAD CLOSED
Socialists fail
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike. Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.
Choose: keep some of your money or die in a heinous fashion with none of it. Help pay for new roads, bridges, schools and technology for the common good or pay with your life. It really doesn't bother me. In fact, a big part of me would rather things get a whole lot worse before they get any better, because then maybe the 1% of the country that controls more than 50% of the wealth would get killed. That would be great.
Then I guess I'm ok with the people who are getting paid shitty wages by those rich people to storm their manors, drag them out, rape their women and children in front of them, and then cut off their heads and mount them on a pike. Because with the income inequality that we have in the country now, that's where we're going.
Uh... nobody is forcing anyone to work. Slavery has been gone for over 100 years. SMH at the left's logic.
That's horseshit and you know it. To have ANY chance in this economy/society, you need to have SOME sort of job.
Someone is not familar with the National Interstate and Defense Highways Act.You mean taxes right? I sure do love having a working a sewer system, roads, water, and all that. Hey, the internet you using now would not exist without taxpayer money.NO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
How are they being punished?
Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
None of which is paid for by income tax. I pay for those through my utility bill.
How would you pay for that education?I paid tuition.
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.
Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?
Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.
Bigot.
So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P
Person from the south calling me a bigot LULZ
Oh, so it's like right now in the current system that I'm in a higher tax bracket than someone making minimum wage. They are forcefully taking my monies cause I make more? We've been socialist this whole time?!? :omgNO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
How are they being punished?
Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
Hey beardo
hey
look at me
How would you pay for that education?
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.Oh, so it's like right now in the current system that I'm in a higher tax bracket than someone making minimum wage. They are forcefully taking my monies cause I make more? We've been socialist this whole time?!? :omgNO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
How are they being punished?
Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.
Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?
Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.
Bigot.
So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P
Person from the south calling me a bigot LULZ
You didnt answer my question. Where are you from so I can hate on that region? Huh?
But yes lulz since everyone assumes southern people are bigots.
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.
its pretty sad really, I mean its like you guys dont read books
Is there any good socialist fiction? All the best fiction is anti-socialist.
In before someone says The Jungle
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.
So, still wont answer bigot?
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.
Who is going to install that?mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.Oh, so it's like right now in the current system that I'm in a higher tax bracket than someone making minimum wage. They are forcefully taking my monies cause I make more? We've been socialist this whole time?!? :omgNO! YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND, IT'S THEIR FAULT THEY WERE BORN POOR! THEY SHOULD PULL THEMSELVES UP BY THEIR BOOTSTRAPS, NEVERMIND IF THEY CAN'T AFFORD BOOTS TO BEGIN WITH!
It's nobody's fault that people are born a certain way. The only difference between the way you and me think is that I do not believe successful people should be punished for something they did not do.
How are they being punished?
Forcefully taking money that someone's earned isn't being punished. SMH at the left's logic.
I like how republicans manage to pretend we'd be moving into full blown fukin socialism. So fucking hilarious.
So, still wont answer bigot?
I did, keep your pants on.
Class LOLZfare is more like it. I donate thousands of dollars each year to various charities, I just dont like the south.
So why don't you like the south? Please enlighten us.
Well, for one, you. I mean look at you. Who would listen to you and not immediately dislike the area?
Oh, so since you dislike my views, and thus by your post this makes you dislike me as a person, you dislike the entire south.
Bigot.
So, where are you from, because since I dont like you I must need to not like that entire area as well to be fair :P
Person from the south calling me a bigot LULZ
You didnt answer my question. Where are you from so I can hate on that region? Huh?
But yes lulz since everyone assumes southern people are bigots.
If you dont know where I am from by now youre pretty dumb.
No, imagine MORE liberal
Haha, ok maybe not that liberal. Who would kick our own armed forces out of the city?
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.
No, im north of Seattle.
mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.
Exactly. It's fucking ridiculous. I interned at a CPA firm after I graduated in 2006, ugghhh.mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.
Agreed. Does anyone else think that its odd that our tax code is a fucking book thats like 1000 pages long. And our constitution is like a few sheets of paper. :lol
So people who did their own taxes would over pay. It's amazing how much more you get back when you itemize.mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.
Agreed. Does anyone else think that its odd that our tax code is a fucking book thats like 1000 pages long. And our constitution is like a few sheets of paper. :lol
Pretty much. That and sustaining the small to mid-sized CPA firm.So people who did there own taxes would over pay. It's amazing how much more you get back when you itemize.mmmmmmmm Flat Tax.I am all in favor of a flat tax. Tax law is needlessly complex and I think that tax returns should be easy enough that almost everyone can fill their own out. Also, the flat tax seems more intuitive and fair than income brackets.
Agreed. Does anyone else think that its odd that our tax code is a fucking book thats like 1000 pages long. And our constitution is like a few sheets of paper. :lol
Been a few years, but taxes are fucking stupid.
All the best fiction is anti-socialist.
QuoteAll the best fiction is anti-socialist.
from the mouths of babes... :lol
QuoteAll the best fiction is anti-socialist.
from the mouths of babes... :lol
Just laying down the facts brotha.
:punch
Seriously is there any good socialist fiction?
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?" has to be the best argument ever.
O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this. You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it.
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?" has to be the best argument ever.
O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this. You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it.
Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?" has to be the best argument ever.
O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this. You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it.
Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding
The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things: I saw it from my porch so I know about it.
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?" has to be the best argument ever.
O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this. You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it.
Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding
The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things: I saw it from my porch so I know about it.
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.
Socialism is awesome because it means I don't have to work. Let the motivated people do the work for me, I'mma sit my ass down and watch me some My Favorite Martian.
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?" has to be the best argument ever.
O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this. You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it.
Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding
The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things: I saw it from my porch so I know about it.
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.
Do thinking people everywhere a favor and go drink some drano, you buttfucking whore.
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?" has to be the best argument ever.
O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this. You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it.
Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding
The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things: I saw it from my porch so I know about it.
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.
While the American debate tends to be very black and white, believing in socialized medicine doesn't make you a socialist any more than believing in public education or believing in banking regulations. Hard-core libertarianism and socialism are two extremes; you can find yourself somewhere in the middle.
The Canadian system is less than perfect, but people expect too much from the government. The population is aging and health care is becoming more and more expensive. So even as various levels of government massively increase funding, wait times and doctor shortages remain problems.
The level of health care tends to vary from province to province and region to region. In rural areas of the country, for example, it's very difficult to find a GP.
Well said. I come from Saskatchewan which according to print outs in my doctors office, has the oldest average age of family doctors and has the least per persons. This summer I had to go to the doctors every day for just about three months. I can't imagine what that would have cost if someone didn't have insurance. It isn't perfect but i would sure as hell be more happy here than in the states.
It's a sad story but please explain to me why I should be responsible for someone I never have or never will meet?
Decent humanity. If having to wait a while longer to fix an ingrown toenail means saving someone else's life, or saving them from having to be in dept the rest of their lives don't you think maybe you should wait?
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?" has to be the best argument ever.
O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this. You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it.
Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding
The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things: I saw it from my porch so I know about it.
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.
Do thinking people everywhere a favor and go drink some drano, you buttfucking whore.
LOL. U Mad.
Yet again, anytime you are involved hippie, if someone's opinion doesnt exactly match yours they need to die. Taking this with your previous post about how you want things to get worse so people you dont like can die even though they wouldn't die, the people you claim to want to help would die, makes me wonder if you really arent the next Hitler.
"Nazi Germany/Stalin/Ottoman Empire/China/North Korea/Cuba..need I say more?" has to be the best argument ever.
O and please keep the Canadian health care system out of this. You true American patriots seem to have no understanding of it.
Hmm, the stories the page I posted about Canadian healthcare give me some understanding
The Sarah Palin Method of Understanding Things: I saw it from my porch so I know about it.
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.
Do thinking people everywhere a favor and go drink some drano, you buttfucking whore.
LOL. U Mad.
Yet again, anytime you are involved hippie, if someone's opinion doesnt exactly match yours they need to die. Taking this with your previous post about how you want things to get worse so people you dont like can die even though they wouldn't die, the people you claim to want to help would die, makes me wonder if you really arent the next Hitler.
I'm not as charismatic, sadly. :(
I wish all the Republicans would die so there would be less war coverage on TV and more My Favorite Martian.
I wish all the Republicans would die so there would be less war coverage on TV and more My Favorite Martian.
:shh
Republicans wish there was no war coverage.
Socialist: raising the top tax rate from 35% to 39%
Free-Market: nationalizing the banks, massive investment in insurance agencies, limiting certain types of trades, raising the debt ceiling, and promoting government investment into stocks and bonds. And an emphasis on Red States.
It’s all so clear now!
Father Mike, I understand you've used the system, and I openly admitted the current system America has isnt a good one either. I'm just making a point that the link is from actual Canadians like yourself. :)
My wrath was at The Card Cheat, who goes out of his way in threads to irritate me in some way. :)
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.
Father Mike, I understand you've used the system, and I openly admitted the current system America has isnt a good one either. I'm just making a point that the link is from actual Canadians like yourself. :)
My wrath was at The Card Cheat, who goes out of his way in threads to irritate me in some way. :)
People that are vocal tend to be the ones dissatisfied of against something.
Only a very small, and I mean small minority of Canadians think medicare is a bad thing. We all think it needs a good overhaul, and soon, but we will never get rid of it.
I have no idea where this false dilemma of comes from where people think it's pure socialism to want public healthcare. Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist?
I have no idea where this false dilemma of comes from where people think it's pure socialism to want public healthcare. Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist?
wow, so actual Canadians giving testimony to their experience in the Canadian healthcare system means shit to you doesnt it? Go take your shit somewhere else hippie.
You read things, and you believe them. Fine, we all do that. But then you actually use your extensive knowledge on the topic as a base for argument. Well, we all do that too. But at some point, most of us know well enough to sit down and shut up about it when in the presence of people who know more. That is apparently an ability that you just plain lack. Go live somewhere else for a while, get some experience with these strange ideals and how they affect the daily lives of the people who live under these systems, and then make your argument for or against. Or by all means, stick to what you're doing now, but at least realize that you don't really know anything.
To some guys, it's always going to be Freedom Fries vs Communist. It must be nice to have such a clear cut, easily embraced or rejected view of things. It's just a shame that's not how things really are.
Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist?
I think it's awesome that in the same year, we are going to get both Chinese Democracy and American Communism. They've both been a long time comin'.
But whites are at far greater risk of suicide by gun. Why do you hate yourself so much?This socialist owns four guns. There goes that theory.But minorities are the victim of gun violence at a far greater rate than whites. Why do you hate minorities?
SMH
Do you think anyone who says having public schools means your a socialist?
Well, Federally funded schools dont work. The schools are given a list of things that HAVE to be covered or they lose their federal money, which basically kills the school if that happens. The problem? The American school system is broken already. Teachers have no way to force students to learn. This is a combination of many things. Lack of ability to discipline students. The decay of parental guidance on the importance of school. And many more such things.
Private schools run much better and have a much better graduation rate and college acceptance percentage than public schools. But then again, the big difference between the two? One has federal guidelines they have to follow and try and teach each quarter/semester/year, whereas the other is a pay to attend and thus makes parents much more liekyl to be concerned with their child's schooling.
But federally funded schools are technically a social program.
The reason UHC is such a big issue is because health care is prohibitively expensive for those who don't have insurance. The summer before my second year of college, I got in a bike accident on my way to work. Banged up my chin pretty bad, but nothing major. I went to the local hospital and got stitched up, and they gave me a precautionary X-Ray. I was in and out in about an hour. Then a month later, I got a bill for something like $2200. My insurance claim was denied, because university insurance only covered me while school was in session, and my father had been laid off from Oracle due to downsizing, so we didn't have family insurance.
Do you know how much it sucks to not have health coverage? $2200 for some stitches and an X-Ray. It would have taken me a month and a half at the job I had then to make that money. What if it had been something major, like my appendix bursting? I'd have been looking at a bill of over $20,000, easily. Do you know that $20,000 is more than you'd make in a year on a minimum wage job? It's half of what a normal entry level college grad makes before taxes. This is for one procedure. It's fucking outrageous. Meanwhile, Big Pharma makes tens of billions of dollars in profit annually, and the hospital industry makes tens of billions more, and we pay twice what other countries pay for the same care. Fuck that.
I'll go out on a limb and say that anyone who says we don't need UHC gets pretty good coverage from their employer, university or parents.
Private schools run much better and have a much better graduation rate and college acceptance percentage than public schools. But then again, the big difference between the two? One has federal guidelines they have to follow and try and teach each quarter/semester/year, whereas the other is a pay to attend and thus makes parents much more liekyl to be concerned with their child's schooling.
Didnt you hear, McCain will give you a WHOLE 5000 dollars to buy health insurance.
Didnt you hear, McCain will give you a WHOLE 5000 dollars to buy health insurance.
Health Insurance? That's a big screen TV and a whole ton of vidya games.
Oh well that sounds like work to me. What do you think this is.
I wonder how much michael moore would cost the canadian healthcare system if he lived there.
Posting that list and trying to start a discussion about it is stupid.
Does it make sense if I compare your RonPaulian libertarian right wing paradise with Nazi Germany?
wow what a shithold of a thread
i still welcome you conservativs among our fold
in any case, i despise unflinching conservatives such as yoruself just as i despies unflinching liberals.
i learned through life that i don't really have the patience for people who put ideology over this complex, gritty thing called 'reality'
- conservatives proudly and smugly boast against the evils of too much presence of the government. Yet they quickly deny or - more often, do not mention at all the evils of too much control from the private corporation...whose influence can be just as good or bad as government. Government answers to the people. I will repeat this:
Pros:
Government elected by the people and governed by agreed-upon rules - Constitution, laws, etc - exists by the people, for the people.
Similarly, private entities compete to bring the best fruits of competition, and results in wonderful, groundbreaking advances in many many industries, for the benefit of society in general.
Yet, as with reality, as with life, there are the dark sides, when it is taken too far:
- Government in excess can take you to China, or places where Govt has too much power. To the detriment of society.
- Private entities can also have too much power, to the detriment of society. In the US, see the health care, or teh broadband 'progress' [lol] to name just a few, to see this in effect.
Now, there's a ton of liberals at GAF, and at Evilbore, and I don't agree with alot of what they may say. This is why I am at heart, a moderate. I believe in the greatness of capitalism, yet greed - the engine of capitalism - sometimes involves in breaking the rules to the significant detriment of others, and sometimes collective means - what you call socialism - is necessary.
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist.
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)
um
you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)
um
you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right
Just proof that communists and socialists are so dumb they dont even understand their own political philosophy.spoiler (click to show/hide)Nazism, a short name for National Socialism[close]
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)
um
you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right
It really is simpleton logic to call the Nazis socialist; which I am guessing is because the word 'Socialist' was in the name.
It really is simpleton logic to call the Nazis socialist; which I am guessing is because the word 'Socialist' was in the name.
Then I guess socialists are simpletons. :lol
No it doesn't because the Nazi party was Socialist. ;)
um
you do know that communists and nazis hated each other for everything the other stood for, right
National Socialist German Workers' Party
also: One of the big tenets of the Nazi party was socialism for pure Germans.
From Wikipedia:
the party's socialist policy was meant to give social welfare to German citizens deemed part of the Aryan race
National Socialist German Workers' Party
Stalin killed more of his own people than Hitler did during all of WW2. :lol
u mad?
u mad?
A middle-class group that hated Marxist ideologies and that really didn't do anything "socialist" apart from welfare and some nationalization, neither of which are inherently socialist from definition. So you guys are trying to call them socialists for the heck of it, despite the fact that they really didn't do any of the Marxist things you hate so much.
The Nazis were repugnant because of their racial and totalitarian ideologies, not their hodge-podge economic policy.
But dude, it's in the name! Never mind if the argument makes sense, let's holler about it anyway and hope that people will let us win by simply walking away from theargumentnoise.
How very Republican.
But dude, it's in the name! Never mind if the argument makes sense, let's holler about it anyway and hope that people will let us win by simply walking away from theargumentnoise.
How very Republican.
I wonder what Beardo and Ganhyun think of the Democratic-Republican Party. I mean, THE NAME! IT'S SO CONFUSING. THEY MUST HAVE BEEN ONE OR THE OTHER.
Wow, what a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow to go the router of a known socialist on this board.
Democratic party: Commonly liberal members, some extreme, some moderate.
Republican party: Commonly conservative. Some extreme, some moderate.
Crushed, you do know that Nazis also blamed Capitalists and Capitalism for Germany's problems as well right?
They also promised a Third Option between Capitalism and Communism, which by definition of Marx is Socialism.
Granted, its not pure socialism, as many have pointed out, but the party was still socialistic in its ideals for pure Germans.
Wow, what a fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow to go the router of a known socialist on this board.
Democratic party: Commonly liberal members, some extreme, some moderate.
Republican party: Commonly conservative. Some extreme, some moderate.
The Democratic-Republican Party was a party created by Thomas Jefferson and James Madison to oppose the Federalists.
The modern Democratic Party can trace its history back to it.Crushed, you do know that Nazis also blamed Capitalists and Capitalism for Germany's problems as well right?
They blamed communism and Jewish business-owners. Capitalism was fine as long as it was in the hand of Germans.They also promised a Third Option between Capitalism and Communism, which by definition of Marx is Socialism.
The Nazis did not promise socialism as a step from capitalism into communism, which is what Marx proposed.
PS: Marx did not invent socialism, nor is he the all-knowing master of it.Granted, its not pure socialism, as many have pointed out, but the party was still socialistic in its ideals for pure Germans.
How was it socialistic?
If you go by Marx's theory, socialism is the step between the two.
From Wikipedia:
"This Nazi party came to power in the aftermath of the Great Depression, seeking a Third Way, in 1933, which they blamed on capitalists and promised a "Third Position" between capitalism and communism."
If you go by Marx's theory, socialism is the step between the two. You don't obviously, so its a wash.
So yes, while Jews were also blamed, they were not the ONLY blame.
As far as the Democratic-Republican parties, Yes I know when the party was founded. I am telling you what they are today. Why not throw out the mention of other parties throughout history?
"Some socialists advocate complete nationalization of the means of production, distribution, and exchange; while others advocate state control of capital within the framework of a market economy."
So, Nazi's promising a third way and being nationalistic in that only Pure Germans could have businesses and such isnt a form of socialism?
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.
no, we just got tired of seeing nothing but Obama-Jesus he can do no wrong anyone who disagrees is stupid and doesn't deserve to live shit from you guys.
"Help, help. I'm being repressed!"
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.
no, we just got tired of seeing nothing but Obama-Jesus he can do no wrong anyone who disagrees is stupid and doesn't deserve to live shit from you guys.
No one is saying he's Jesus. We just, you know, agree with him. With logic.
Did all of the republicans get fired from their jobs or something? The past 24 hours has been obnoxious publican spin central in these threads.
no, we just got tired of seeing nothing but Obama-Jesus he can do no wrong anyone who disagrees is stupid and doesn't deserve to live shit from you guys.
Ganhyun: Boo hoo.
I could give a flip about someone criticizing Obama (which I myself have done OMG unbias cred!).
But I don't have a ton of patience for people who act like being in the minority on an internet forum is the same thing as speaking truth to power. Don't believe me? Ask MAF himself, who was known to spend a bit of time on the ol' e-cross in his day.
we attack each other for liking chris nolan movies, or playing games on a nintendo console, captain butthurt. get over yourself!
Hm.
Ganhyun posted this topic after Googling for "socialism sucks" "reasons socialism sucks" or "why socialism sucks". But I can't be sure which one it was.
So how about it, Ganhyun?
Hm.
Ganhyun posted this topic after Googling for "socialism sucks" "reasons socialism sucks" or "why socialism sucks". But I can't be sure which one it was.
So how about it, Ganhyun?
I'm not disputing that.
I'm saying that in order to make this thread, you googled some simple combination of words and used one of the first links you found to make some delicious copy pasta. So? What search terms did you use?
I personally dislike socialism and wanted to post this.
My search term: List of reasons why socialism sucks.
I personally dislike socialism and wanted to post this.
It's interesting how you can dislike a system that you don't seem to really understand beyond its most basic, unrefined principles, as has been made brutally obvious by how this topic has moved from the supposed horrors of health-care in Canada and other social-democratic systems to the "socialist" in "National Socialist." Wikiducation strikes again.
I personally dislike socialism and wanted to post this.
It's interesting how you can dislike a system that you don't seem to really understand beyond its most basic, unrefined principles, as has been made brutally obvious by how this topic has moved from the supposed horrors of health-care in Canada and other social-democratic systems to the "socialist" in "National Socialist." Wikiducation strikes again.
Go fuck off and die bitch.
Edit:
Because I felt like it.
So since no one has provided any clear reasons why socialism doesn't suck, can we conclude that it does suck?
So since no one has provided any clear reasons why socialism doesn't suck, can we conclude that it does suck?
What the fuck do you think the other 6 pages were?
Christ do you read?
You want people to look at a bullshit list to see all of your points? When people on this board talk about socialism in America, they're talking about specific socialistic principles adopted by nearly every other western country. Nobody here thinks that Cuba or Nazi Germany was perfect.Posting that list and trying to start a discussion about it is stupid.
If you think the list and a discussion about it is stpuid, then obviously you are even more stupid for taking your time, since you think its stupid, to come and post about it. :)
I think extremes in either direction are bad, but to suggest the demos are goin pure soc is LOL
Hmm, it seems we actually agree with each other more than we think. Ac ouple points:wow what a shithold of a thread
i still welcome you conservativs among our fold
in any case, i despise unflinching conservatives such as yoruself just as i despies unflinching liberals.
i learned through life that i don't really have the patience for people who put ideology over this complex, gritty thing called 'reality'
- conservatives proudly and smugly boast against the evils of too much presence of the government. Yet they quickly deny or - more often, do not mention at all the evils of too much control from the private corporation...whose influence can be just as good or bad as government. Government answers to the people. I will repeat this:
Pros:
Government elected by the people and governed by agreed-upon rules - Constitution, laws, etc - exists by the people, for the people.
Similarly, private entities compete to bring the best fruits of competition, and results in wonderful, groundbreaking advances in many many industries, for the benefit of society in general.
Yet, as with reality, as with life, there are the dark sides, when it is taken too far:
- Government in excess can take you to China, or places where Govt has too much power. To the detriment of society.
- Private entities can also have too much power, to the detriment of society. In the US, see the health care, or teh broadband 'progress' [lol] to name just a few, to see this in effect.
Now, there's a ton of liberals at GAF, and at Evilbore, and I don't agree with alot of what they may say. This is why I am at heart, a moderate. I believe in the greatness of capitalism, yet greed - the engine of capitalism - sometimes involves in breaking the rules to the significant detriment of others, and sometimes collective means - what you call socialism - is necessary.
I agree with most of what you say, but I'd like to make a couple of points. First the bolded, I can't say government has served the people these past eight years, perhaps some tried and just did a poor job, and this includes members of both parties. I too believe in capitalism. It did afterall help build the greatest nation on earth, however I can point out three reasons of its recent failures. Corruption, Piss poor leadership, and IMO our education system that continues to decline and I'll explain why. Empowering the individual for success is one benefit of capitalism, but if that individual has a poor education the chances of them obtaining that success isn't good.
Hmm, it seems we actually agree with each other more than we think. Ac ouple points:wow what a shithold of a thread
i still welcome you conservativs among our fold
in any case, i despise unflinching conservatives such as yoruself just as i despies unflinching liberals.
i learned through life that i don't really have the patience for people who put ideology over this complex, gritty thing called 'reality'
- conservatives proudly and smugly boast against the evils of too much presence of the government. Yet they quickly deny or - more often, do not mention at all the evils of too much control from the private corporation...whose influence can be just as good or bad as government. Government answers to the people. I will repeat this:
Pros:
Government elected by the people and governed by agreed-upon rules - Constitution, laws, etc - exists by the people, for the people.
Similarly, private entities compete to bring the best fruits of competition, and results in wonderful, groundbreaking advances in many many industries, for the benefit of society in general.
Yet, as with reality, as with life, there are the dark sides, when it is taken too far:
- Government in excess can take you to China, or places where Govt has too much power. To the detriment of society.
- Private entities can also have too much power, to the detriment of society. In the US, see the health care, or teh broadband 'progress' [lol] to name just a few, to see this in effect.
Now, there's a ton of liberals at GAF, and at Evilbore, and I don't agree with alot of what they may say. This is why I am at heart, a moderate. I believe in the greatness of capitalism, yet greed - the engine of capitalism - sometimes involves in breaking the rules to the significant detriment of others, and sometimes collective means - what you call socialism - is necessary.
I agree with most of what you say, but I'd like to make a couple of points. First the bolded, I can't say government has served the people these past eight years, perhaps some tried and just did a poor job, and this includes members of both parties. I too believe in capitalism. It did afterall help build the greatest nation on earth, however I can point out three reasons of its recent failures. Corruption, Piss poor leadership, and IMO our education system that continues to decline and I'll explain why. Empowering the individual for success is one benefit of capitalism, but if that individual has a poor education the chances of them obtaining that success isn't good.
- first, yes, I am a huge believer in capitalism and the superiority in the market.....but ONLY as compared with other systems, such as communism, socialism, monarchy, etc.
- teh difference between many conservatives and me is that, I believe in capitalism as one of potentially numerous great solutions to practical, societal problems (education, military, or whatever whatever). People like YOU however, seem to take capitalism as the Bible, and individual empowerment as the unchallengeable, uncriticizable, obvious, and near-flawless way to conduct society at large. Your view on why private education is superior is so clear on your narrowmindedness. IMO. Because so many conservatives seem to ignore important and undeniably influencial factors that disadvantage entire groups of people - ex: by race, religion, gender, etc. In addition, mandatory public education - at least at the basic level, however you define that - prevents society from consisting of 10% who are high school graduates, 50% who barely got 5th grade education, and the rest being uneducated at all. And THIS SITUATION is what we are seeing with health care right now. Now, Im not an idiot: im not saying public education cannot provide underwhelming results (see todays US education, for example). BUt whereas YOU attack the entire concept of public education in favor of private, I prefer concentrating on reforming the system....from shit idiot stuff like so many standardized tests, or No Child Left Behind bullshit.
- as for the 'government serves the people""' comment, I am saying theoretically, that's the way its supposed to work. Practically, govt serves the people but has its faults and flaws that are worthy of criticism (ie. instances of corruption, bribery, etc). What conservatives seem to say, however, is that govt is ALWAYS or ALMOST ALWAYS this inefficient, lumbering cancer to civilization. This kind of black-white, extreme, simplistic, and most of all, purely ideological view is what I find childish, extremist, and crazy.
- US as the 'greatest nation on earth'....you're gonna have to define that more specifically, sweetie. Do you mean US as teh greatest nation in terms of contributions to capitalism, to technology (in the 20th century, mostly), and to pioneering the idea of democracy and elections? If so, i agree. Do you mean GREATEST in terms of US as the morally upright, valient savior of the world for the side of goodness and the side of GOD? Im gonna have to call you bullshit on that. Unless we;re talking certain, specific events - like WW1 or 2, Korean War, Guf War, etc - the US has committed many attrocities and crimes that are very rarely heard or talked about among schoo textbooks. Presidents from the liberal LBJ to the conservative RR have done things that have really really hurt other nations.
Uh, so far as I know socialism was a transitional step from capitalism to communism, not just any system which is neither.
Where's tennin when you need him?
Within the co-operative society based on common ownership of the means of production, the producers do not exchange their products; just as little does the labor employed on the products appear here as the value of these products, as a material quality possessed by them, since now, in contrast to capitalist society, individual labor no longer exists in an indirect fashion but directly as a component part of total labor. The phrase "proceeds of labor", objectionable also today on account of its ambiguity, thus loses all meaning.
What we have to deal with here is a communist society, not as it has developed on its own foundations, but, on the contrary, just as it emerges from capitalist society; which is thus in every respect, economically, morally, and intellectually, still stamped with the birthmarks of the old society from whose womb it emerges. Accordingly, the individual producer receives back from society -- after the deductions have been made -- exactly what he gives to it. What he has given to it is his individual quantum of labor. For example, the social working day consists of the sum of the individual hours of work; the individual labor time of the individual producer is the part of the social working day contributed by him, his share in it. He receives a certificate from society that he has furnished such-and-such an amount of labor (after deducting his labor for the common funds); and with this certificate, he draws from the social stock of means of consumption as much as the same amount of labor cost. The same amount of labor which he has given to society in one form, he receives back in another.
Here, obviously, the same principle prevails as that which regulates the exchange of commodities, as far as this is exchange of equal values. Content and form are changed, because under the altered circumstances no one can give anything except his labor, and because, on the other hand, nothing can pass to the ownership of individuals, except individual means of consumption. But as far as the distribution of the latter among the individual producers is concerned, the same principle prevails as in the exchange of commodity equivalents: a given amount of labor in one form is exchanged for an equal amount of labor in another form.
Hence, equal right here is still in principle -- bourgeois right, although principle and practice are no longer at loggerheads, while the exchange of equivalents in commodity exchange exists only on the average and not in the individual case.
In spite of this advance, this equal right is still constantly stigmatized by a bourgeois limitation. The right of the producers is proportional to the labor they supply; the equality consists in the fact that measurement is made with an equal standard, labor.
But one man is superior to another physically, or mentally, and supplies more labor in the same time, or can labor for a longer time; and labor, to serve as a measure, must be defined by its duration or intensity, otherwise it ceases to be a standard of measurement. This equal right is an unequal right for unequal labor. It recognizes no class differences, because everyone is only a worker like everyone else; but it tacitly recognizes unequal individual endowment, and thus productive capacity, as a natural privilege. It is, therefore, a right of inequality, in its content, like every right. Right, by its very nature, can consist only in the application of an equal standard; but unequal individuals (and they would not be different individuals if they were not unequal) are measurable only by an equal standard insofar as they are brought under an equal point of view, are taken from one definite side only -- for instance, in the present case, are regarded only as workers and nothing more is seen in them, everything else being ignored. Further, one worker is married, another is not; one has more children than another, and so on and so forth. Thus, with an equal performance of labor, and hence an equal in the social consumption fund, one will in fact receive more than another, one will be richer than another, and so on. To avoid all these defects, right, instead of being equal, would have to be unequal.
But these defects are inevitable in the first phase of communist society as it is when it has just emerged after prolonged birth pangs from capitalist society. Right can never be higher than the economic structure of society and its cultural development conditioned thereby.
In a higher phase of communist society, after the enslaving subordination of the individual to the division of labor, and therewith also the antithesis between mental and physical labor, has vanished; after labor has become not only a means of life but life's prime want; after the productive forces have also increased with the all-around development of the individual, and all the springs of co-operative wealth flow more abundantly -- only then then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be crossed in its entirety and society inscribe on its banners: From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs!
Awesome. It's like my own radical Marxist bat-signal!
When I'm emperor of the world, I'll give tennin the ability to edit any and all posts at The Corner.