if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.
Imagine if I said that my latest book came from nothing. The text fell together in a coherent order, the page numbers fell in numerical order, it bound itself, the cover designed itself, and then out of nowhere the title, You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can’t Make Him Think appeared. There was no author, no printer, and no publisher. What sort of crazy person would you think I was if I said that nothing created the book? Why then would anyone give any credibility to an atheist? So the next time you hear the word “atheist” and the word “intelligent” in the same sentence, you will know better.
If any species came into existence without a mature female present (with complimentary female components), that one male would have remained alone and in time died. The species could not have survived without a female. Why did hundreds of thousands of animals, fish, reptiles and birds (over millions of years) evolve a female partner (that coincidentally matured at just the right time) with each species?
God existed before the Scriptures were penned, before creation came into existence, and even if the Bible was proved to be fraudulent, God would still exist.
Who builds the builder?
OH GOD
a mature female present (with complimentary female components)
Quotea mature female present (with complimentary female components)
complimentary :-*
Evolution hurts my head so IT's GOD!
Even if the god I'm referring to was proven fraudulent, there would still be GOD.
if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.
*batman voiceQuotea mature female present (with complimentary female components)
complimentary :-*
He pulled a Father Mike, and I didn't even notice. :duh
Quoteif I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.
he has a point. evolution annihilated :santocry
Quoteif I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.
he has a point. evolution annihilated :santocry
Outside of employing what is clearly a false analogy--comparing a house, a human artifact, with the universe--and shielding God from the argument, then yes, he has a good point.
Quoteif I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.
he has a point. evolution annihilated :santocry
Outside of employing what is clearly a false analogy--comparing a house, a human artifact, with the universe--and shielding God from the argument, then yes, he has a good point.
I just wanted an honest answer so I can get it straight: a house is a physical, human artifact created by a physical human being - who has a creator according to creationists. The universe is a physical artifact created by a spiritual higher power - who has no creator. Therefore both things aren't analogous right?
Just wanted to clear that up and fully understand the argument
I'm not a creationist, was just curious in the discussion
I'm just weeping right now for all those species that evolved a male but not a female.
I bet they all cried when they masturbated too.
We know houses are made by humans, or the very least Eastern Europeans, Italians, and Mexicans.
I'm just weeping right now for all those species that evolved a male but not a female.
I bet they all cried when they masturbated too.
The Bible is so ingrained in his mind that he believes species evolve from a single male member, like Adam in the Creation Story.
When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator. It's just nothing we could possibly comprehend or even label correctly. Our lives are so short and hurried
it seems like a waste of time to even argue or pontificate.
When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator. It's just nothing we could possibly comprehend or even label correctly. Our lives are so short and hurried, it seems like a waste of time to even argue or pontificate.
When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator.
When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator. It's just nothing we could possibly comprehend or even label correctly. Our lives are so short and hurried, it seems like a waste of time to even argue or pontificate.
Yeah, why waste time pondering things like free will and the existence of an afterlife when we have important things to do like post on EB.
It's cool guys. When I was your age I was the angry little atheist that had to convince everyone that Santa Claus doesn't exist .. but then as I aged more, I reflected at what a waste of time it is and that what you think is a universe of massive chaos is actually nothing but absolute order. Replicated patterns and routines repeating endlessly. You just have to pull back the "camera" far enough to see.
no hotlinking allowed
If there's a god, why are the Mavs getting blown out by the Bucks. :'(
How much older do I have to be before I can dismiss other people's views
Your thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods
QuoteYour thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods
You pretend like atheism is a recent construct of the human mind.
QuoteHow much older do I have to be before I can dismiss other people's views
You seem to be old enough as you have already done it a few times in this (and other) threads.
QuoteYour thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods
You pretend like atheism is a recent construct of the human mind.
why does there have to be a creator?
and why is god exempt from this?
I know it's the same old same old retort, but the logic behind this is baffling:
I do not understand how the universe could have just came into existence as something this complex must have been created.
Yet God is eternal and exists outside of time.... err... okay.
No one understands god, so why is he given the pass? He's surely more complex than the universe and everything that he apparently created so why is the same questioning not applied? why do the same people who jump on the watchmaker theory give the creator a free ride as to the means of his inception?
Nice job editing out an important modifying clause. There's nothing wrong with being dismissive, but you were being dismissive because I was younger: "When I was your age I was the angry little atheist." This suggests that atheism is a rebellious phase of ignorant youth, one that will be overcome with age.
QuoteYour thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods
You pretend like atheism is a recent construct of the human mind.QuoteI'm not sure what you're driving at. I was only trying to say that your non sequitur, deriving god from complexity and order in the world, is not a new argument, but just as flawed.
Nice job editing out an important modifying clause. There's nothing wrong with being dismissive, but you were being dismissive because I was younger: "When I was your age I was the angry little atheist." This suggests that atheism is a rebellious phase of ignorant youth, one that will be overcome with age.
Atheism is a natural progression in everyone's spiritual lives.
My comment about age was not directed at you specifically. But atheists in general. Atheism is a natural progression in everyone's spiritual lives.
I don't think I ever claimed to be breaking new ground in my thoughts. It's an old idea because it's all around you and always has been.
When you consider that 1/5 atheists are 29 and younger and the majority of the older atheists consider themselves "lifelong" atheists. It's more common to find a "born again" Christian and not a "born again" atheist as you grow older.
It's not to demean someone for believing what you believe. All of us form our most important ideals/values at this time. It's just part of the human experience.
Shit, even in Obama's speech, he said America was a nation of Christians, muslims, and non believers.
It's an old idea because it's natural to look at the simple inventions that we have created, beginning with sharp sticks, and then to look at the world, which makes our creations pale in comparison, and imagine that it must also have ultimately been created by someone like us, only much greater.
edit: horrible, horrible prose. I need sleep.
In fact, as we begin to learn more and in turn, create more (at both the micro and macro level) we will begin to have a far greater sense of awe for what has set forth all this into motion.Speak it, prophet
it of course, will decimate the ideas of man-made religion .. but will only accentuate the idea of a grand designer.
Is it more logical to assume that:
1) complex things evolved or otherwise emerged from simple things OR;
2) complex things were created by a more complex being?
Everything I know about science points to 1) being the more likely explanation. See chaos theory, for one.
I wonder for how many athiests who say "there is no God" really mean "I don't want there to be a God." Meaning that for every religion out there, there are rules to follow and there's accountability. People say "I don't want to do this, this, this, or that, and I want to be a good person for sure but I want to do it my own way, why do I have to live like such and such and follow your rules? Because of God?" And, sure enough, God gets kicked to the curb in favor of being able to do whatever.
Then, of course, there's the Ted Turner brand of athiest. "Why would God allow something like this happen? God wouldn't allow something like this to happen. And yet it did. Since it happened, and God would not allow it, there must be no God."
Many on this board are athiests and quite a few are militant about it. I just don't see how one could be so dismissive. Being so seems to call for quite a bit of faith.
Kashyyyk has three Ys. Clearly you have been disqualified, as well.
On the topic of DC's marriage counselor, he had a misguided view of things, I do believe. (I know, I know, "all religious people are misguided." Play along for a moment.) On one hand, the Bible does say that sickness and death are a result of sin. However, a person's sinful actions are not the reason that person may later become sick. The sin that caused sickness, Biblically speaking, is the original sin. It was that sin that brought death into the world and as a result, yes, cancer is a result of sin. However it's not a direct result of present sin.
I will say that apparently in old testament times, there were those who believed and taught that your present situation was dictated by how Godly you were. Your health, your wealth, etc., was an indication of the level of sin in your life. This was rejected in the new testament, though. "Blessed are the meek," etc.
see... my science books have a pretty good explaination of cancer. Complete with evidence.
see... my science books have a pretty good explaination of cancer. Complete with evidence.
And the theologian would say that absent the flaw in perfection that was introduced with the original sin, the biological processes that ultimately lead to cancer would not occur.
But I, for one, celebrate and welcome science and do not believe that scientific knowledge and belief in a higher power are mutually exclusive points of view. I think creation and evolution can certainly coexist. It's like what what's-his-face said in the movie Contact "I'm bound by a different covenant than [what's her name], but our goals are the same: the search for truth."
QuoteIt's still a crock of shit. Give a man a cock, a naked woman and unlimited leisure...what the fuck else is supposed to happen.
both the man and woman die and human life dies out.
Was God just winging it?? certainly sounds like he didn't think things through.
I wonder for how many athiests who say "there is no God" really mean "I don't want there to be a God." Meaning that for every religion out there, there are rules to follow and there's accountability. People say "I don't want to do this, this, this, or that, and I want to be a good person for sure but I want to do it my own way, why do I have to live like such and such and follow your rules? Because of God?" And, sure enough, God gets kicked to the curb in favor of being able to do whatever.
"I always thought that about the Garden of Eden story," said Ford.
"Eh?"
"Garden of Eden. Tree. Apple. That bit, remember?"
"Yes of course I do."
"Your God person puts an apple tree in the middle of a garden and says do what you like guys, oh, but don't eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting 'Gotcha'. It wouldn't have made any difference if they hadn't eaten it."
"Why not?"
"Because if you're dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won't give up. They'll get you in the end."
???
The original sin wasn't sex, unless I'm missing part of your point. Original sin was disobedience, in this case eating from a forbidden tree. The fruit wasn't the point, though, it was that man would disobey God. This was a flaw in man that would be passed down to future generations, much like any other trait.
QuoteIt's an absurd invention that serves to shackle even the most righteous with a mortal sin, and keeps us in spirtual hock to the church forever.
God the blackmailer, the invisible stick to end all invisible sticks.
I was never convinced by the argument that the universe is simply too majestic, too sophisticated, too perfect, too intricate, and too orderly to validate God's existence. "You want your God to take responsibility for the huge number of collapsing stars and imploding galaxies and failed solar systems that have left us in this tiny corner of the one planet in this petty solar system that can support life some of the time on some of its surface, and you want to take your creator who has filled this Earth with species since life began, 99% of which are now extinct already -- this is some design, isn't it?"
maybe the bible just has it wrong , it wasn't a "Tree of knowledge"
it was a "Flask of plutonium"
and Sin WAS Cancer.
God : "Guys, DON'T eat from the Flask of plutonium!"
eve : oooo... that looks fun, lets eat!
Adam : nom nom ... i feel sick. My hair is falling out.
God : You mongs, get out of the garden! You are contaminating all my other creations!
There you go, everything explained :
Defiance aspect - check, adam and eve
love for mankind - check, god didn't want Adam to get irradiated
sin is cancer - check, we still have it
why animals die and also get cancer - check, proximity to toxic adam (!)
toxic adam username - check
yes but intellectual catholocism lets you read about the insane cosmology created by the early church to legitimize the faith in the eyes of the polytheists
Malek, welcome to the club. :bow
Now you have the freedom to piss off both sides.
but you can't make too much fun of them.Malek, welcome to the club. :bow
Now you have the freedom to piss off both sides.
Yeah, this is a great advantage of being a deist: one can still make fun of religions people.
The origin of the universe blows my mind - regardless if there was a God or not. How does something come from nothing? This goes against everything we believe in (conservation of mass/energy).
Give a man a cock, a naked woman and unlimited leisure...what the fuck else is supposed to happen.