Atheists owned by the Banana Man

[Cormacaroni]

Santa? Do I have to be older than him as well to win this thing?

[Cormacaroni]

Kashyyyk has three Ys. Clearly you have been disqualified, as well.

On the topic of DC's marriage counselor, he had a misguided view of things, I do believe. (I know, I know, "all religious people are misguided." Play along for a moment.) On one hand, the Bible does say that sickness and death are a result of sin. However, a person's sinful actions are not the reason that person may later become sick. The sin that caused sickness, Biblically speaking, is the original sin. It was that sin that brought death into the world and as a result, yes, cancer is a result of sin. However it's not a direct result of present sin.

I will say that apparently in old testament times, there were those who believed and taught that your present situation was dictated by how Godly you were. Your health, your wealth, etc., was an indication of the level of sin in your life. This was rejected in the new testament, though. "Blessed are the meek," etc.

Original sin is a bad joke. If Adam and Eve hadn't screwed, we wouldn't be burdened with original sin. Also, we wouldn't exist at all.

Personally, I'm over it. Don't feel bad in the least.

[Bocsius]

see... my science books have a pretty good explaination of cancer. Complete with evidence.

And the theologian would say that absent the flaw in perfection that was introduced with the original sin, the biological processes that ultimately lead to cancer would not occur.

But I, for one, celebrate and welcome science and do not believe that scientific knowledge and belief in a higher power are mutually exclusive points of view. I think creation and evolution can certainly coexist. It's like what what's-his-face said in the movie Contact "I'm bound by a different covenant than [what's her name], but our goals are the same: the search for truth."

[Cormacaroni]

see... my science books have a pretty good explaination of cancer. Complete with evidence.

And the theologian would say that absent the flaw in perfection that was introduced with the original sin, the biological processes that ultimately lead to cancer would not occur.

But I, for one, celebrate and welcome science and do not believe that scientific knowledge and belief in a higher power are mutually exclusive points of view. I think creation and evolution can certainly coexist. It's like what what's-his-face said in the movie Contact "I'm bound by a different covenant than [what's her name], but our goals are the same: the search for truth."

It's still a crock of shit. Give a man a cock, a naked woman and unlimited leisure...what the fuck else is supposed to happen. I don't want any part of a theology which attributes sin to untold generations of otherwise-innocent folks for this eminently laudable act (both because fucking is cool, and without it we wouldn't be here [assuming all that balls in the bible is true, which it isn't]).

[Bocsius]

The original sin wasn't sex, unless I'm missing part of your point. Original sin was disobedience, in this case eating from a forbidden tree. The fruit wasn't the point, though, it was that man would disobey God. This was a flaw in man that would be passed down to future generations, much like any other trait.

[Cormacaroni]

It's still a crock of shit. Give a man a cock, a naked woman and unlimited leisure...what the fuck else is supposed to happen.

both the man and woman die and human life dies out.

Was God just winging it?? certainly sounds like he didn't think things through.

You question the doctrine of omniscience?! To the firepits with you!

[recursivelyenumerable]

I wonder for how many athiests who say "there is no God" really mean "I don't want there to be a God." Meaning that for every religion out there, there are rules to follow and there's accountability. People say "I don't want to do this, this, this, or that, and I want to be a good person for sure but I want to do it my own way, why do I have to live like such and such and follow your rules? Because of God?" And, sure enough, God gets kicked to the curb in favor of being able to do whatever.

they were supposed to have sex, that's why god made eve in the first place.  the sin was eating the apple.  douglas adams has a fun take on this though.

bocsius's got me.  i am an atheist as an excuse to shirk my duties

edit: missed bocsius's last post somehow, but oh well

[recursivelyenumerable]

"I always thought that about the Garden of Eden story," said Ford.

"Eh?"

"Garden of Eden. Tree. Apple. That bit, remember?"

"Yes of course I do."

"Your God person puts an apple tree in the middle of a garden and says do what you like guys, oh, but don't eat the apple. Surprise surprise, they eat it and he leaps out from behind a bush shouting 'Gotcha'. It wouldn't have made any difference if they hadn't eaten it."

"Why not?"

"Because if you're dealing with somebody who has the sort of mentality which likes leaving hats on the pavement with bricks under them you know perfectly well they won't give up. They'll get you in the end."

[Cormacaroni]

The original sin wasn't sex, unless I'm missing part of your point. Original sin was disobedience, in this case eating from a forbidden tree. The fruit wasn't the point, though, it was that man would disobey God. This was a flaw in man that would be passed down to future generations, much like any other trait.

The distinction between 'original sin' and Adam's sin in eating the fruit that kicked off the process is that original sin is passed down to us from them via the simple process of reproduction, without anyone other than Adam having done anything to deserve it. He was denied any avenue of expiating this sin before he reproduced. As you say, all of us supposedly pass it on to our children as well. It's an absurd invention that serves to shackle even the most righteous with a mortal sin, and keeps us in spirtual hock to the church forever.  

Although it is my understanding that this was all negated by Jesus' resurrection. It's still just a horrible horrible concept - unforgivable really. Literally, you have to be forgiven just for existing...otherwise, it's damnation for you!

[Cormacaroni]

It's an absurd invention that serves to shackle even the most righteous with a mortal sin, and keeps us in spirtual hock to the church forever. 

God the blackmailer, the invisible stick to end all invisible sticks.

This is why you should be reading Lucifer like I told you. I know it has words but there are pictures as well, honest.

[Tristam]

I was never convinced by the argument that the universe is simply too majestic, too sophisticated, too perfect, too intricate, and too orderly to validate God's existence. "You want your God to take responsibility for the huge number of collapsing stars and imploding galaxies and failed solar systems that have left us in this tiny corner of the one planet in this petty solar system that can support life some of the time on some of its surface, and you want to take your creator who has filled this Earth with species since life began, 99% of which are now extinct already -- this is some design, isn't it?"

[Cormacaroni]

I was never convinced by the argument that the universe is simply too majestic, too sophisticated, too perfect, too intricate, and too orderly to validate God's existence. "You want your God to take responsibility for the huge number of collapsing stars and imploding galaxies and failed solar systems that have left us in this tiny corner of the one planet in this petty solar system that can support life some of the time on some of its surface, and you want to take your creator who has filled this Earth with species since life began, 99% of which are now extinct already -- this is some design, isn't it?"

Well, at least it's roomy.

[Van Cruncheon]

it's not that it's too majestic, it's rather that we're too crippled and limited

and our capacity for silly awe isn't helping

[Van Cruncheon]

WEEELLL HOOLEEE SHEEET I JUST SAW A COMPU-TAR SHOW ME A FELLER AND A LADY IN THEY FULL GETUP AND MADE O' GLASS AND LIGHT

HYUCK

GOD SHORE DOES WORK IN MYSTERIOUS WAYS, EH

WASSAT WOMAN, YOU DOUBT ME

C'MERE AND AH'LL GET THAT OTHER EYE TO A BLACKIN'

[drohne]

WHERE IS YOUR ABSENCE OF A GOD NOW

[Oblivion]

maybe the bible just has it wrong , it wasn't a "Tree of knowledge"

it was a "Flask of plutonium"

and Sin WAS Cancer.

God : "Guys, DON'T eat from the Flask of plutonium!"

eve : oooo... that looks fun, lets eat!
Adam : nom nom ... i feel sick. My hair is falling out.

God : You mongs, get out of the garden! You are contaminating all my other creations!

There you go, everything explained :

Defiance aspect - check, adam and eve
love for mankind - check, god didn't want Adam to get irradiated
sin is cancer - check, we still have it
why animals die and also get cancer - check, proximity to toxic adam (!)
toxic adam username - check

XFE A TRUE deity.

[TVC15]

XFE, your theory fails to explain genes and combinations of genes that cause people to get cancer.  Or did god put them in us past the first generation via evilution?  Oh wait, he couldn't have done that.

[EmCeeGrammar]

In my case, the more I learned about how things worked the less I could attribute to a god, until there was nothing left to "believe in".  I think alot of irrationality unfortuneatly is rooted in the basic logic processes of the mind. All major civilizations had religions, I can't think of a minor one that didn't.  When you know you were born and will die I believe people mistakenly project it onto the outside world. Which is ridiculous. 

The way I see it "I" isn't really one thing, its the sum of all the matter that my body and the environment have exchanged over the years.  When "I" die all of the energy and mass is accounted for and is redistributed.  I'm pretty sure time itself isn't a tangible dimension, it doesn't exist. 

There was an infinite amount of events  going on before the big bang, and its not hard to comprehend when you realise nothing really starts or ends, every moment can best be described as a constant "transference" of energy and matter resulting from causation stretching both ways through "time" . This is all junior high shit but sometimes I like to ramble.

[Brehvolution]

Can we set up EB as some sort of religious entity? What would the tithe rate be?

Can I get a nemA?

[patrickula]

I think it comes down to the vanity of man.

We need to see a being who created us in his image and created this planet and the universe just for us (never mind that the planet and our bodies are flawed creations).  Because we design things, everything must be designed.  Because we desire justice, there must be divine justice.  Because we don't want to live a finite existence, we believe in an afterlife.

Bocsius stated earlier that atheists WANT to not believe in god... this might be true for some, but personally I'd love to believe again, if what I believed was truth.  Death being a gateway to unending paradise, and all you have to do is believe in some guy or follow some rules?  If that didn't sound like an awesome deal, people wouldn't be so willing to sign up for it.  This only concerns the beliefs of some religions, though they're the ones getting more popular, and the old testament is being discussed here.

I won't say that there's 100% certainty of no god/creator, and I won't say there must be (and certainly wouldn't be specific).  I'm not going to pretend to know more than I can.

[Flannel Boy]

That was an awesome 12 hours of sleep, clearly a sign that god exists and loves me afterall.

Since there are so many non-believers on this forum, I'm going to have to fake belief. My options are intellectual Catholic or Deist. The former requires too much reading, and I have enough on my plate. Deism, on the other hand, requires no reading and no real belief: you just have to believe that an entity called God exists or existed and he did some things. Maye he's still doing stuff, but who knows?

Deism it is.

[Eric P]

yes but intellectual catholocism lets you read about the insane cosmology created by the early church to legitimize the faith in the eyes of the polytheists

[Flannel Boy]

yes but intellectual catholocism lets you read about the insane cosmology created by the early church to legitimize the faith in the eyes of the polytheists

With shitty law school, I have no time (and even less desire) to read.

Now that I no longer like reading, maybe I should think about becoming a Baptist.

[Eric P]

did you know that bible is greek for book?

[ToxicAdam]

Malek, welcome to the club.  

Now you have the freedom to piss off both sides.

[Flannel Boy]

Malek, welcome to the club.  

Now you have the freedom to piss off both sides.

Yeah, this is a great advantage of being a deist: one can still make fun of religious people.

edit: bloody hell

[brawndolicious]

Malek, welcome to the club.  

Now you have the freedom to piss off both sides.

Yeah, this is a great advantage of being a deist: one can still make fun of religions people.

but you can't make too much fun of them.

and then obviously you're going to need some beliefs to support your belief in a deity so then you become at least somewhat religious.  so that's sort of like being bi and then getting neutered and spayed.

[bachikarn]

The origin of the universe blows my mind - regardless if there was a God or not. How does something come from nothing? This goes against everything we believe in (conservation of mass/energy).

[Barry Egan]

The origin of the universe blows my mind - regardless if there was a God or not. How does something come from nothing? This goes against everything we believe in (conservation of mass/energy).

Time to read some Heidegger.

[WrikaWrek]

His reasoning is the reason why most sane people think these kind of religious distinguished mentally-challenged fellows are distinguished mentally-challenged fellows.

[demi]

Give a man a cock, a naked woman and unlimited leisure...what the fuck else is supposed to happen.

Make the woman cook while the man jerks off. God invented Marriage!