Atheists owned by the Banana Man

[Flannel Boy]

Ray Comfort, from this video, has a new site.

if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.

Imagine if I said that my latest book came from nothing. The text fell together in a coherent order, the page numbers fell in numerical order, it bound itself, the cover designed itself, and then out of nowhere the title, You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence, But You Can’t Make Him Think appeared. There was no author, no printer, and no publisher. What sort of crazy person would you think I was if I said that nothing created the book? Why then would anyone give any credibility to an atheist? So the next time you hear the word “atheist” and the word “intelligent” in the same sentence, you will know better.

If any species came into existence without a mature female present (with complimentary female components), that one male would have remained alone and in time died. The species could not have survived without a female. Why did hundreds of thousands of animals, fish, reptiles and birds (over millions of years) evolve a female partner (that coincidentally matured at just the right time) with each species?

God existed before the Scriptures were penned, before creation came into existence, and even if the Bible was proved to be fraudulent, God would still exist.

 

[demi]

OWNED, time for a tag change

Get off my planet BITCH I rule #1

[Flannel Boy]

Who builds the builder?

OH GOD

He's the unbuilt builder. The uncaused cause, Silly Billy.

[Van Cruncheon]

god built god, duh

[recursivelyenumerable]

a mature female present (with complimentary female components)

complimentary   

[Flannel Boy]

a mature female present (with complimentary female components)

complimentary   

He pulled a Father Mike, and I didn't even notice. 

[Brehvolution]

Evolution hurts my head so IT's GOD!

Even if the god I'm referring to was proven fraudulent, there would still be GOD.

[Phoenix Dark]

if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.

he has a point. evolution annihilated  :santocry

[Madrun Badrun]

a mature female present (with complimentary female components)

complimentary   

He pulled a Father Mike, and I didn't even notice. 

*batman voice
BANANA MAN PRAYS TO ME!


edit:  It is not possible to say BANANA in the batman voice

edit edit:  Now I've made a true edit so I'm removing the fake edit title so everyone will think the first edit was a real edit. 

[Flannel Boy]

if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.

he has a point. evolution annihilated  :santocry

Outside of employing what is clearly a false analogy--comparing a house, a human artifact, with the universe--and shielding God from the argument, then yes, he has a good point.

[Madrun Badrun]

I saw Ben Stein's Expelled, Malek.  I know what you are, Nazi.  I know critical thinking and reason may seem reasonable, but think of the Jews. 

[Phoenix Dark]

if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.

he has a point. evolution annihilated  :santocry

Outside of employing what is clearly a false analogy--comparing a house, a human artifact, with the universe--and shielding God from the argument, then yes, he has a good point.

I just wanted an honest answer so I can get it straight: a house is a physical, human artifact created by a physical human being - who has a creator according to creationists. The universe is a physical artifact created by a spiritual higher power - who has no creator. Therefore both things aren't analogous right?

[Van Cruncheon]

you can observe man building a house. can you observe god making a rock?

you can also observe a snail making a shell. since intelligence is not a prerequisite for creation, is god as stupid as a snail?

[Madrun Badrun]

if I say that I don’t believe that a builder built my house, then I am left with the insanity of believing that nothing built it. It just happened.

he has a point. evolution annihilated  :santocry

Outside of employing what is clearly a false analogy--comparing a house, a human artifact, with the universe--and shielding God from the argument, then yes, he has a good point.

I just wanted an honest answer so I can get it straight: a house is a physical, human artifact created by a physical human being - who has a creator according to creationists. The universe is a physical artifact created by a spiritual higher power - who has no creator. Therefore both things aren't analogous right?

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/artifact

[recursivelyenumerable]

huh?  when has God ever made a shell?

[Phoenix Dark]

being corrected by Father Mike= :'(

[Flannel Boy]

An artifact, by definition, is an object made by humans for a specific purpose. We know houses are made by humans, or the very least Eastern Europeans, Italians, and Mexicans. We know for a fact that they are artifacts. You can't, without any analogous experience, call the universe an artifact. Natural objects--such as planets, trees, and mammals--come into existence through natural processes, natural processes which don't require a designer of any kind who has a preconceived purpose for those objects.

edit: nevermind

[Madrun Badrun]

HA HA! BANANA MAN AND PD BOW TO ME!

[Phoenix Dark]

Just wanted to clear that up and fully understand the argument

I'm not a creationist, was just curious in the discussion

[Flannel Boy]

Just wanted to clear that up and fully understand the argument

I'm not a creationist, was just curious in the discussion

At least the banana argument was original. Ray Comfort is simply using the old Watchmaker argument without addressing its obvious deficiencies.

[Cormacaroni]

I'm just weeping right now for all those species that evolved a male but not a female.

I bet they all cried when they masturbated too.

[Flannel Boy]

I'm just weeping right now for all those species that evolved a male but not a female.

I bet they all cried when they masturbated too.

The Bible is so ingrained in his mind that he believes species evolve from a single male member, like Adam in the Creation Story.

[Robo]

We know houses are made by humans, or the very least Eastern Europeans, Italians, and Mexicans.

 

[Cormacaroni]

I'm just weeping right now for all those species that evolved a male but not a female.

I bet they all cried when they masturbated too.

The Bible is so ingrained in his mind that he believes species evolve from a single male member, like Adam in the Creation Story.

That would be Adam of 'Adam and Eve' fame then?

[ToxicAdam]

When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator. It's just nothing we could possibly comprehend or even label correctly. Our lives are so short and hurried, it seems like a waste of time to even argue or pontificate.

[Flannel Boy]

When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator. It's just nothing we could possibly comprehend or even label correctly. Our lives are so short and hurried

I don't even know what to make of that.

it seems like a waste of time to even argue or pontificate.

Most of this forum spends countless hours playing videos games or talking about video games, so please no lectures about wasting time discussing unimportant topics.

[Cormacaroni]

When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator. It's just nothing we could possibly comprehend or even label correctly. Our lives are so short and hurried, it seems like a waste of time to even argue or pontificate.

Yeah, why waste time pondering things like free will and the existence of an afterlife when we have important things to do like post on EB.

[Madrun Badrun]

When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator.

 

[ToxicAdam]

It's cool guys. When I was your age I was the angry little atheist that had to convince everyone that Santa Claus doesn't exist .. but then as I aged more, I reflected at what a waste of time it is and that what you think is a universe of massive chaos is actually nothing but absolute order. Replicated patterns and routines repeating endlessly. You just have to pull back the "camera" far enough to see.

Here's a cool TED talk I saw a few months ago ...

When you notice the repeating patterns in the world and the universe, I don't think there is any doubt there is a creator. It's just nothing we could possibly comprehend or even label correctly. Our lives are so short and hurried, it seems like a waste of time to even argue or pontificate.

Yeah, why waste time pondering things like free will and the existence of an afterlife when we have important things to do like post on EB.

There is no afterlife. It's just a construct of the frontal lobes.

[Flannel Boy]

It's cool guys. When I was your age I was the angry little atheist that had to convince everyone that Santa Claus doesn't exist .. but then as I aged more, I reflected at what a waste of time it is and that what you think is a universe of massive chaos is actually nothing but absolute order. Replicated patterns and routines repeating endlessly. You just have to pull back the "camera" far enough to see.

How much older do I have to be before I can dismiss other people's views simply because those views have been articulated by people younger than I am? And let's ignore all the old atheists!

Your thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods, been amazed with life on Earth, both the chaos and order on the planet, and said to each other "shit there must be a creator." You're simply going beyond the Earth, and doing the same thing with the universe as a whole.

[Madrun Badrun]

Proof of God. 

Well at least it beats Descartes arguments. 

Scroll up and down over the picture and watch the spirals move.  A phenomenon truly worthy of a sacrifice of half this seasons corn. 

[Eric P]

no hotlinking allowed

[Cormacaroni]

Having trouble reconciling these two viewpoints:

'Life is too short to ponder these things.'

AND

'I know more about them than you do because I'm older'

(which you're not, I'm 37 ffs. newb)

[Van Cruncheon]

old man cormac

[Madrun Badrun]

no hotlinking allowed

 

http://www.bittbox.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/using_patterns_0.png

now you can't scroll over it.   :'( :'( :'(

[Flannel Boy]

If there's a god, why are the Mavs getting blown out by the Bucks.  :'(

[Madrun Badrun]

If there's a god, why are the Mavs getting blown out by the Bucks.  :'(

Because God, being infinitely intelligent, doesn't give a fuck about sports. 

[ToxicAdam]

How much older do I have to be before I can dismiss other people's views

You seem to be old enough as you have already done it a few times in this (and other) threads.

I'm not telling you how to think. I was just explaining my journey and how I perceive the world around me.

Your thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods

You pretend like atheism is a recent construct of the human mind.

[Madrun Badrun]

Your thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods

You pretend like atheism is a recent construct of the human mind.

I think you missed the point. 

[Flannel Boy]

How much older do I have to be before I can dismiss other people's views

You seem to be old enough as you have already done it a few times in this (and other) threads.

Nice job editing out an important modifying clause. There's nothing wrong with being dismissive, but you were being dismissive because I was younger: "When I was your age I was the angry little atheist." This suggests that atheism is a rebellious phase of ignorant youth, one that will be overcome with age.

Your thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods

You pretend like atheism is a recent construct of the human mind.

I'm not sure what you're driving at. I was only trying to say that your non sequitur, deriving god from complexity and order in the world, is not a new argument, but just as flawed.

[Cormacaroni]

Is it more logical to assume that:

1) complex things evolved or otherwise emerged from simple things OR;

2) complex things were created by a more complex being?

Everything I know about science points to 1) being the more likely explanation. See chaos theory, for one.

[Brehvolution]

why does there have to be a creator?

and why is god exempt from this?

I know it's the same old same old retort, but the logic behind this is baffling:

I do not understand how the universe could have just came into existence as something this complex must have been created.
Yet God is eternal and exists outside of time.... err... okay.

No one understands god, so why is he given the pass? He's surely more complex than the universe and everything that he apparently created so why is the same questioning not applied? why do the same people who jump on the watchmaker theory give the creator a free ride as to the means of his inception?

 

Easy money. Once people found that others had fallen for their tales, they simply cashed in. It's the human way.

[ToxicAdam]

Nice job editing out an important modifying clause. There's nothing wrong with being dismissive, but you were being dismissive because I was younger: "When I was your age I was the angry little atheist." This suggests that atheism is a rebellious phase of ignorant youth, one that will be overcome with age.

My comment about age was not directed at you specifically. But atheists in general. Atheism is a natural progression in everyone's spiritual lives. Where you go from there (and how long it takes) is all dependent on your life experiences.

Your thought process seems to be similar to people who have, from the very earliest recorded periods

You pretend like atheism is a recent construct of the human mind.

I'm not sure what you're driving at. I was only trying to say that your non sequitur, deriving god from complexity and order in the world, is not a new argument, but just as flawed.

I don't think I ever claimed to be breaking new ground in my thoughts. It's an old idea because it's all around you and always has been.

[Madrun Badrun]

Nice job editing out an important modifying clause. There's nothing wrong with being dismissive, but you were being dismissive because I was younger: "When I was your age I was the angry little atheist." This suggests that atheism is a rebellious phase of ignorant youth, one that will be overcome with age.

Atheism is a natural progression in everyone's spiritual lives.

what is your grounds for this claim other than your personal experience? 

[Flannel Boy]

My comment about age was not directed at you specifically. But atheists in general. Atheism is a natural progression in everyone's spiritual lives.

I think you're describing your particular development, not necessarily one that is natural. Most people have never been atheists, or even agnostics. And for some, atheism is an end point.

I don't think I ever claimed to be breaking new ground in my thoughts. It's an old idea because it's all around you and always has been.

It's an old idea because it's natural to look at the simple inventions that we have created, beginning with sharp sticks, and then to look at the world, which makes our creations pale in comparison, and imagine that it must also have ultimately been created by someone like us, only much greater.

edit: horrible, horrible prose. I need sleep.

[Cormacaroni]

I don't know why this thread is even still open. We already established that I'm the oldest, so I'm right and he's wrong.

[ToxicAdam]

When you consider that 1/5 atheists are 29 and younger and the majority of the older atheists consider themselves "lifelong" atheists. It's more common to find a "born again" Christian and not a "born again" atheist as you grow older.

It's not to demean someone for believing what you believe. All of us form our most important ideals/values at this time. It's just part of the human experience.

[Cormacaroni]

Owned by an entirely theoretical entity!

I feel worse than ferrariman.

[Flannel Boy]

When you consider that 1/5 atheists are 29 and younger and the majority of the older atheists consider themselves "lifelong" atheists. It's more common to find a "born again" Christian and not a "born again" atheist as you grow older.

It's not to demean someone for believing what you believe. All of us form our most important ideals/values at this time. It's just part of the human experience.

This is, of course, a generational thing, not an age thing. Being an open atheist is no no longer taboo in most Western countries. This shift has affected the younger generation because adults, especially those past their 20s, rarely change their minds about politics or religion.

edit: A longitudinal study would need to be conducted to see whether the differences were the result of cultural differences across generations.

edit2: I'm sure they've been done, by Pew or a similar group, but I'm way to sleepy to look.

[Brehvolution]

Shit, even in Obama's speech, he said America was a nation of Christians, muslims, and non believers.

[Madrun Badrun]

Shit, even in Obama's speech, he said America was a nation of Christians, muslims, and non believers.

did he really?  cool

[ToxicAdam]

It's an old idea because it's natural to look at the simple inventions that we have created, beginning with sharp sticks, and then to look at the world, which makes our creations pale in comparison, and imagine that it must also have ultimately been created by someone like us, only much greater.
edit: horrible, horrible prose. I need sleep.

I don't really prescribe to that at all.  In fact, as we begin to learn more and in turn, create more (at both the micro and macro level) we will begin to have a far greater sense of awe for what has set forth all this into motion. We are still stuck in the trees unable to pull back and see the forest.

I truly feel that once we begin to explore other planets, we will find that "life" (at the micro level) is teeming throughout the solar system. If it behaves and functions much in the same way as it does here on earth, it of course, will decimate the ideas of man-made religion .. but will only accentuate  the idea of a grand designer.

[Madrun Badrun]

In fact, as we begin to learn more and in turn, create more (at both the micro and macro level) we will begin to have a far greater sense of awe for what has set forth all this into motion.

Speak it, prophet

it of course, will decimate the ideas of man-made religion .. but will only accentuate  the idea of a grand designer.

How's that?

[Bocsius]

I wonder for how many athiests who say "there is no God" really mean "I don't want there to be a God." Meaning that for every religion out there, there are rules to follow and there's accountability. People say "I don't want to do this, this, this, or that, and I want to be a good person for sure but I want to do it my own way, why do I have to live like such and such and follow your rules? Because of God?" And, sure enough, God gets kicked to the curb in favor of being able to do whatever.

Then, of course, there's the Ted Turner brand of athiest. "Why would God allow something like this happen? God wouldn't allow something like this to happen. And yet it did. Since it happened, and God would not allow it, there must be no God."

Many on this board are athiests and quite a few are militant about it. I just don't see how one could be so dismissive. Being so seems to call for quite a bit of faith.

[bork]

Is it more logical to assume that:

1) complex things evolved or otherwise emerged from simple things OR;

2) complex things were created by a more complex being?

Everything I know about science points to 1) being the more likely explanation. See chaos theory, for one.

Hey, 2) could be right.  Some alien or aliens that people like to call "god" had some fun terraforming and putting life on some mudball in a shitty galaxy.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Those aliens also believe in 1) and the big bang theory.

[close]

[Van Cruncheon]

I wonder for how many athiests who say "there is no God" really mean "I don't want there to be a God." Meaning that for every religion out there, there are rules to follow and there's accountability. People say "I don't want to do this, this, this, or that, and I want to be a good person for sure but I want to do it my own way, why do I have to live like such and such and follow your rules? Because of God?" And, sure enough, God gets kicked to the curb in favor of being able to do whatever.

Then, of course, there's the Ted Turner brand of athiest. "Why would God allow something like this happen? God wouldn't allow something like this to happen. And yet it did. Since it happened, and God would not allow it, there must be no God."

Many on this board are athiests and quite a few are militant about it. I just don't see how one could be so dismissive. Being so seems to call for quite a bit of faith.

wat

WAT

[Madrun Badrun]

like majority of religious people fallow the rules.  no if I wanted freedom I'd be religious; that way I could do what ever I want and always have some verse that supports me. 

[CajoleJuice]

sigh

[Cormacaroni]

Wookies don't live on Endor, ewoks do. Wookies live on Kashyyk.

Everyone, feel free to disregard anything said by the XFE from this point onwards. I think we can also safely retroactively dismiss his comment about God 'owning' me also.

[Bocsius]

Kashyyyk has three Ys. Clearly you have been disqualified, as well.

On the topic of DC's marriage counselor, he had a misguided view of things, I do believe. (I know, I know, "all religious people are misguided." Play along for a moment.) On one hand, the Bible does say that sickness and death are a result of sin. However, a person's sinful actions are not the reason that person may later become sick. The sin that caused sickness, Biblically speaking, is the original sin. It was that sin that brought death into the world and as a result, yes, cancer is a result of sin. However it's not a direct result of present sin.

I will say that apparently in old testament times, there were those who believed and taught that your present situation was dictated by how Godly you were. Your health, your wealth, etc., was an indication of the level of sin in your life. This was rejected in the new testament, though. "Blessed are the meek," etc.