THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: AdmiralViscen on February 11, 2009, 03:22:06 PM

Title: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 11, 2009, 03:22:06 PM
should be fun
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Vizzys on February 11, 2009, 03:23:10 PM
maybe

in the demo I felt it was a struggle just to aim my gun at an enemy properly
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: drew on February 11, 2009, 03:24:19 PM
I was here . . . PAGE 1

Feb 11, 2009
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on February 11, 2009, 03:24:53 PM
who locked the old thread, demi or duckman?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: demi on February 11, 2009, 03:34:12 PM
who locked the old thread, demi or duckman?

I did. Conversation turned boring and duckman edited the thread title so I wanted to make fun of him
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 11, 2009, 03:36:25 PM
oh, I thought it was duckman lol

fuck that topic n e wayz, real gamers post here
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on February 11, 2009, 03:37:49 PM
Seriously, I read the back story and found it pretty cool! I hope the muddy area of Hellghast vs Humans comes across in the game, but I doubt it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: drew on February 11, 2009, 03:38:44 PM
the che kiss of death

spoiler (click to show/hide)
every thread hes posted in has been locked :lol
[close]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 11, 2009, 03:40:16 PM
Seriously, I read the back story and found it pretty cool! I hope the muddy area of Hellghast vs Humans comes across in the game, but I doubt it.

Supposedly, it's completely absent from the game. Weird, but I guess they were really gunning for a streamlined game.

Has anyone read anything about whether or not the crazy Helghast dogs are in the game?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 11, 2009, 03:45:52 PM
So I don't want to bother playing the original, do I?  Kinda have the image of it being unplayable now.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 11, 2009, 03:46:45 PM
So I don't want to bother playing the original, do I?  Kinda have the image of it being unplayable now.

You really don't. Unplayable is about right.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Mr. Gundam on February 11, 2009, 03:48:15 PM
So I don't want to bother playing the original, do I?  Kinda have the image of it being unplayable now.

Don't bother with the PS2 version. The PSP one is pretty awesome, though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 11, 2009, 03:49:41 PM
Yeah I got the PSP version sitting here, never really played much of it.  Didn't it get DLC?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 11, 2009, 04:11:48 PM
I think it got multiplayer DLC, but I'm not sure.  I might be thinking of Syphon Filter.

anyway, play it.  Killzone Liberation rocks.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 11, 2009, 04:27:27 PM
All I know about that game is that it had attack dogs. Which every shooter should have. Helghan ones, even.

[youtube=560,345]QwvUqAt_fAU[/youtube]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on February 11, 2009, 04:28:01 PM
Yeah I got the PSP version sitting here, never really played much of it.  Didn't it get DLC?
Play the PSP game, it rocks.

The PS2 game is pretty much unplayable, however.  The framerate is about as bad as a game could get last generation (think Goldeneye on N64).
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Brehvolution on February 11, 2009, 08:17:41 PM
I was here . . . PAGE 1

Feb 11, 2009
:rofl

Seriously though, I'm more of a mouse-=keyboard guy for FPS games. But as I played the demo a few more times and got the hang of the controls, I enjoyed it. I'm sure I will play through the single player before I do any multi. I hope they patch in  M-K later on though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: maxy on February 15, 2009, 01:36:12 AM
Full video walkthrough of SP,veteran

http://www.gameanyone.com/game/PS3/1826.html
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 15, 2009, 01:40:40 AM
Why in the hell would anyone want to watch a full showing of a game? I don't get it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: demi on February 15, 2009, 01:41:59 AM
Why in the hell would anyone want to watch a full showing of a game? I don't get it.

So I can spoil you, lol!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 15, 2009, 01:45:07 AM
I don't care much about spoilers, certainly not in a game that has been described as having close to no gray areas, but come on. Other than to serve as a guide on how to deal with some situation, what's the point of it? To each their own, but I don't fucking get it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 15, 2009, 01:52:39 AM
God the guns still bug the shit out of me. They remind me a lot of Doom: The Movie. Like someone taped a camera to a gun.

 :wtf  That's like the least sensible observation anyone has ever made. I mean, where in the hell does that then leave damned near every other shooter?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 15, 2009, 02:03:09 AM
So you've basically been critically damaged by the shit presentation of guns in shooters. Makes sense. That's not to say that this presentation is anywhere near perfectly realistic, but it's a lot closer than your typical style.

I'm not sure if it's feasible to do this in a game (especially given the basic limitations of the medium), but it would be nice to at least get to try a game that pushed a more realistic visual presentation and positioning of weapons. Most developers seem to be content with the ever so popular sprint tuck.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: maxy on February 15, 2009, 02:12:48 AM
Why in the hell would anyone want to watch a full showing of a game? I don't get it.

Why not?
I do it with lot of games,sometimes just for curiosity,sometimes to judge if the game is worth getting or not,sometimes just for fun.



Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on February 15, 2009, 02:35:55 AM
Yeah I got the PSP version sitting here, never really played much of it.  Didn't it get DLC?

yea multiplayer and a extra story chapter.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: drew on February 15, 2009, 06:10:06 AM
Why in the hell would anyone want to watch a full showing of a game? I don't get it.

because its on a system i sure as hell am not getting in the foreseeable* future?

*5-6 years at least, probably never
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Third on February 15, 2009, 08:34:14 AM
Never played KZ1 and Liberation, but I'm getting this one for sure.

The demo is pretty good. And I played the online beta, and that's far better.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 15, 2009, 09:50:08 AM
duckman, you don't have to respond to every single post man
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on February 15, 2009, 09:57:57 AM
I changed my RES5 pre order to Killzone 2. Can't wait, looks awesome.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Vyer on February 15, 2009, 12:19:39 PM

Seriously though, I'm more of a mouse-=keyboard guy for FPS games. But as I played the demo a few more times and got the hang of the controls, I enjoyed it.

Just in the nick of time!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 20, 2009, 05:27:57 PM
http://ps3.ign.com/dor/objects/748475/killzone-next-gen/videos/IGN_killzoneblog2_multiplayer06_021909.html

Developer diary featuring a really old multiplayer build, sort of fun to watch. They seem to be hinting towards vehicles coming to MP later on, hopefully that will be given its own little beta before introduced into the wild. Some of the maps seem designed to support vehicles, but it seems like the smartest thing would be to release specific vehicle maps.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 20, 2009, 07:14:22 PM
are there two rocket launchers in KZ2 or did they change it? the old one looks awesome
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 20, 2009, 07:21:42 PM
There are two different ones, the one in the demo and the classic killzone rocket launcher (the one in this footage)

[youtube=560,345]judb23tsaNg[/youtube]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 20, 2009, 09:37:51 PM
classic killzone :rofl
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 20, 2009, 09:44:38 PM
 ??? it's basically the same rocket launcher as in Killzone 1.

(http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2004/reviews/918762_20040915_screen042.jpg)
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 20, 2009, 09:52:05 PM
"classic" made me lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 21, 2009, 01:25:25 AM
"classic" made me lol

Fair enough, might have been a poor choice of word there. But that RL design has always been pretty cool.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 26, 2009, 12:23:13 AM
Someone win this thing for me so that I can send it to a Chinese factory and order a limited run of these with basic Tippmann internals. HPA could even go in the drum mag.

(http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3485/3309623627_50827723a7.jpg)

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/02/25/win-your-own-killzone-2-sta52-assault-rifle-replica/
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 26, 2009, 12:25:38 AM
What is with the 2/27 ship date for this game?  Are Gamestops going to have it Saturday, or are some getting it on the 27th?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 26, 2009, 12:26:20 AM
I think they are doing midnight launches
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 26, 2009, 12:26:27 AM
I heard it would actually be out on Friday, not shipping.  Usually games with odd release dates do this.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 26, 2009, 12:29:26 AM
The Gamestop website says the ship date is 2/27, that's why I'm wondering.  I have $30 in store credit on a pre-order, so I guess they'll call me?  It's been like four years since I pre-ordered anything from there so I dunno anymore.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Mr. Gundam on February 26, 2009, 12:56:32 AM
What is with the 2/27 ship date for this game?  Are Gamestops going to have it Saturday, or are some getting it on the 27th?

They already have the game at the stores. Sony is trying to make this a "cool way to start the weekend" Friday release.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 26, 2009, 01:20:14 AM
What is with the 2/27 ship date for this game?  Are Gamestops going to have it Saturday, or are some getting it on the 27th?

They already have the game at the stores. Sony is trying to make this a "cool way to start the weekend" Friday release.

One of those releases, huh?  Hope I can get my PS3 out of NAT3 before friday then.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 26, 2009, 02:29:55 AM
Yeah well, at least you have a working PS3  :gloomy  Although I'll admit that there's something deliciously ironic about the situation. Maybe I can hook up some temporary cooling solution to get me through the game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on February 26, 2009, 08:19:33 AM
I've been playing this all week.  It's a solid game that focuses on refining a few ideas rather than attempting to do anything new or different.  I suppose that's not a bad thing, but at the same time, it prevents it from really standing out.  One thing is for certain, the game becomes significantly more fun as you progress.  The first third of the game was certainly well designed, but the firefights didn't really grab me in the way I would have expected.  Following that, however, they start to introduce large, complex battlefields for you and the AI to let loose in.  A lot of games have you digging in at a specific point while trying to advance on an enemy position, but there are a lot of battles here where you and the AI end up moving up, on, and around the environment.  It's still a linear game, but the environments are fairly open ended.  It's almost Metal Gear-like in the sense that they cram a lot of variety and possibilities into a series of smaller areas.

If I were looking to compare this to other popular first person shooters, it would be difficult to really place it in one camp.  It has the elements of many games along with its own unique flavor.  It's like a more cover oriented version of Halo, I suppose.  I appreciate the fact that the game is so tightly designed yet still allows the player to approach each situation with plenty of freedom.  So, rest assured, it does NOT play like a Call of Duty games by any means.

It's a shame that they did not attempt to deliver a more meaningful narrative.  It's all kept very brief and very military.  Of course, the single player campaign seems designed for multiple playthroughs in that there is rarely any downtime related to scripting or story.  If you've replayed Gears 2, you'd see just how many scenarios are actually a bit dull as you replay the game.  You spend a lot of time waiting around or dealing with less than exciting threats in order to hit the next great firefight.  What was awesome the first time around becomes a bit tedious afterwards.  KZ2 is one of those games that you begin to appreciate more as you replay various scenarios.  Unlike, say, Call of Duty, you are not artificially limited by scripting and can take out the enemies at your own pace.  I suppose the Halo comparisons work here again as Halo allowed the same tactics.

Ah well, that's enough rambling.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on February 26, 2009, 09:15:24 AM
Sounds good dark. 

I went by the store yesterday thinking that I would be able to pick it up but then saw that it won't be released until Friday. :gloomy smh  I guess I should've payed more attention.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Brehvolution on February 26, 2009, 09:16:27 AM
My xbox arrives tomorrow as well as me picking up my kz2 pre-order. Damn you MS.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on February 26, 2009, 09:34:06 AM
Play.com shipped this to me yesterday. With luck it will be here tomorrow.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 26, 2009, 10:11:54 AM
They really shouldn't have blown their load with reviews so long ago. My hype level for this game is back to near-zero, after being pretty excited for it in January. I'm more excited about Halo Wars and the new Halo 3 maps tbh

dark10x, what difficulty did you play on? Was it pretty much required to use cover in order to get through the game?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 26, 2009, 10:49:13 AM
More interested in reading about the multiplayer, or is it not up yet?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on February 26, 2009, 11:22:27 AM
They really shouldn't have blown their load with reviews so long ago. My hype level for this game is back to near-zero, after being pretty excited for it in January. I'm more excited about Halo Wars and the new Halo 3 maps tbh

dark10x, what difficulty did you play on? Was it pretty much required to use cover in order to get through the game?
I started on normal difficulty and tooled around a little with "hard" (or whatever it's called).  I plan to replay on the harder mode as the AI seem a lot more aggressive.  I would say things have been pretty solid on normal, however.  The game does not rely on cover nearly as much as Gears and I think that actually works well.  The game is most enjoyable when you keep moving.  The AI does not like to put themselves at risk just for the hell of it (unlike, say, the Locust).  They often take and stay behind cover while blind firing, throwing grenades, and the like.  You can get into a stalemate at times if you sit still.  Making advances at the enemies and dealing with their reactions is what it's all about.  You can't just run and gun, but cover isn't the focus here.

I actually don't use the default control scheme either.  I use "press to aim" on L1 like CoD4 and it works well.  If you're behind cover you simply hold L2 and, when you want to fire using iron sights, just switch your finger to L1.  When you wish to take cover again, just hold L2 again.  Simple.  Obviously, that's not quite how the cover system is designed to work, but I feel it works really well.  Due to the fact that the game DOES snap to cover, however, it becomes much more effective than ducking behind objects in other shooters.  You can still peak up and fire without using iron sights as well.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 26, 2009, 11:24:35 AM
Did you play Gears and Halo on Normal? I did my first playthroughs on Heroic and Hardcore, and I'd like to do that here. But I also plan on using COD4 controls since I'm mainly buying the game for multiplayer, and taking cover with that setup is a nightmare. So I'll probably only take the difficulty as high as I can without using cover.

Maybe I'll try your finger trick first though, on the harder mode.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on February 26, 2009, 12:27:14 PM
Did you play Gears and Halo on Normal? I did my first playthroughs on Heroic and Hardcore, and I'd like to do that here. But I also plan on using COD4 controls since I'm mainly buying the game for multiplayer, and taking cover with that setup is a nightmare. So I'll probably only take the difficulty as high as I can without using cover.

Maybe I'll try your finger trick first though, on the harder mode.
Try the finger trick.  It actually feels very natural.  The only time it doesn't work well is when leaning out from cover, but that isn't all that useful in the first place and you can still fire easily without using iron sights.  I don't think you'll have any problems with this setup.

I've played Gears and Halo through on Heroic and Hardcore without any problems, but I think KZ2 seems just a hair more challenging (though that maybe simply due to the fact that I wasn't yet used to the style of play).
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 26, 2009, 01:09:39 PM
Gametrailers has put up a video documenting each multiplayer class for the past few days now and they seem really ridged.  It's not so different from something like TF2, but I'm curious if console games could really stick with a specific class the entire time.  The engineer is required to run around and fix the ammo crates and mg turrets since only he could do it.  I'm hoping it all works out when playing online, but between this and the only one main weapon thing, I wonder if it will work out as much as they hoped.  If it does, it could be pretty awesome.  I already know I'm playing as a medic.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 26, 2009, 01:50:35 PM
Prepared to become hated for reviving people. I ran around reviving people left and right, thinking I was the hero of the day, and got roundly bitched out for having revived players who really just wanted to respawn. Well, tough. Not only does player death hurt the team score, but they should have known better than to get killed in the first place.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 26, 2009, 08:04:28 PM
I can always switch to that Spy class

btw, it's out tomorrow morning.  No mention of a midnight launch.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Third on February 26, 2009, 08:56:06 PM
Getting this tomorrow. Going to finish the campaign first.

PSN = HotiV
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 26, 2009, 10:05:22 PM
Speaking of which...

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/46005.html?type=

And Gamespot finally got its review up, 9.0. God damn it, I might have to just sacrifice whatever life is left in the PS3 for this.

The Good

    * Well-paced campaign keeps you in the thick of action 
    * Great online play constantly rewards you 
    * Intricate, balanced multiplayer maps 
    * Weapons are beefy and fun to shoot 
    * Visually stunning, both technically and artistically.


The Bad

    * Forgettable story and characters 
    * Tacked-on motion controls.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on February 26, 2009, 10:12:37 PM
does movement still seem like you're moving though molasses in MP?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on February 26, 2009, 10:14:29 PM
Sucks to hear about the story and the characters. What with all the investment in the art design, and the whole technology they use for the cut scenes, and they end up bringing us the crap with the story.

:(

Even Gears 2 had a cool story.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 26, 2009, 10:18:23 PM
Americans are better than dirty Dutchmen at Very American Characters, big surprise there. Then again, I've hated Rico forever so maybe my expectations were low to begin with. Cutting the only cool character in the first game from KZ2 is a pretty big sin, though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on February 26, 2009, 10:26:06 PM
All i'm saying is, they didn't need to do "american characters", they didn't need to cut the Helghast dude for example, but that's a whole other story, love how they cut the whole "choose your character" from the sequel, and no one seems to notice...but anyway, yeah, it's no good excuse to deliver a crap story, specially when they have the effort to cast someone like bryan cox to deliver a speech dialog, and they create this whole backdrop, and they have this movie like tech for the cut scenes, for what?

But bla bla bla, i have to learn that these is how 99% of the games are and will continue being, story is not important for most of these devs.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 26, 2009, 10:40:48 PM
You're talking as if there exists some upper level that contains a sizable library of games, shooters, with good story. I was impressed with COD4, but that's the only straight shooter I recall that wouldn't feel completely out of place in, say, a half-decent military thriller. I haven't played enough of Gears 2 to say much about the story in that one, but the first one was a great missed opportunity due to it actually having a very interesting background story. I did see a few comically hamhanded attempts at Very Emotional Moments between roidmonsters, and that didn't speak well for the story there. Marcus & Co is a fun gang, though, in typical American tradition. Something Guerrilla seems to have wanted, but predictably failed to execute well.

I agree though that it's a shame that they went with a perfectly straight forward deal, as the KZ universe is relatively interesting.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on February 26, 2009, 10:47:27 PM
Well i did say only about 1% of games released end up having an interesting and good story.

As far as shooters go, i do enjoy Halo, even though it's under developed, but Bioshock was awesome for example, COD4 rocked as far as Tom Clancy type of military porn goes, and Gears of War 2 is like a Bad Boys 2 type of fun popcorn story.

I can remember last gen, how Free Radical did something really cool with Second sight for example. All i'm saying is, if you have a big ass budget, then why not you know?

I mean i understand having a crap budget, and not being able to dedicate resources to the development of a story, but it's not the case here.

GOw 1 had a crap story, but it did have fun characters.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Costanza on February 26, 2009, 10:50:50 PM
guess i'll head up to GS and pick this up now

 :-\
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Brehvolution on February 26, 2009, 11:13:06 PM
i find it all horribly ironic that I take home KZ2 and my 360 on the same day.
 :lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 26, 2009, 11:14:59 PM
So after dinner, my father tells me he forget to mention that I got "some dumb EB Games automated message."  He thought it was just sales crap and deleted it.  I know it has to be about KZ2 since it's all I have reserved there, and call to see if maybe the call was about them selling it today:

Woman: Hi, thank you for calling EB Games where you can blah blah blah blah blah.  This is blah blah can I help you?

Me: Yeah, hi...I got an automated message earlier today but someone deleted it before I had a chance to hear it.  Can you tell me when you'll have Killzone 2?

Woman: *SIGH*

Woman: TOMORROW MORNING.  10 AM.  ANYTHING ELSE??!?

Me: Uh...no, thanks.

Guess she was getting a lot of calls.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on February 26, 2009, 11:16:02 PM
Just go to Wal-Mart and get it if you want it that bad. I'm just waiting to get it tomorrow because I work 7-1 so I'll pick it up at work.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 26, 2009, 11:28:45 PM
i find it all horribly ironic that I take home KZ2 and my 360 on the same day.
 :lol

More or less ironic than me getting a new 360 and the PS3 croaking two days before KZ2?  :gloomy

spoiler (click to show/hide)
nxe is better than expected  :shh

:bow Xbox 360 :bow2
[close]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on February 26, 2009, 11:55:07 PM
i find it all horribly ironic that I take home KZ2 and my 360 on the same day.
 :lol

More or less ironic than me getting a new 360 and the PS3 croaking two days before KZ2?  :gloomy

spoiler (click to show/hide)
nxe is better than expected  :shh

:bow Xbox 360 :bow2
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
so you've joined the side once again?
[close]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on February 27, 2009, 12:14:38 AM
GAMEFLY JUST PUSHED BACK THEIR RELEASE DATE TO THE 28TH THOSE FUCKING ASSHOLES
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 12:33:10 AM
I hope I don't need a preorder to pick this up at GS, I don't feel like driving out to where I preordered it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 27, 2009, 12:38:03 AM
GOw 1 had a crap story, but it did have fun characters.

Games like this don't need to have great stories; they just need to worry about that crappy story not getting in the way of gameplay.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 12:49:11 AM
Can you? I've never tried.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 27, 2009, 12:53:17 AM
Just go to Wal-Mart and get it if you want it that bad. I'm just waiting to get it tomorrow because I work 7-1 so I'll pick it up at work.

Nah, not in any hurry, but the mall is two minutes down the road, so if they did have it early in the evening I would've gone to pick it up.  I wouldn't be bothering buying it from EB Games but I had $30 in store credit and figured what the hell.  

The one time I went to a midnight launch was for Halo 2 at the same store.  It wasn't worth it AT ALL.  Had to wait in line for like an hour just to hand them my receipt and get my copy.  Felt for the clerk, too.  Poor guy was still there hours later the next day when I went back for something else.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on February 27, 2009, 02:10:16 AM
i find it all horribly ironic that I take home KZ2 and my 360 on the same day.
 :lol

More or less ironic than me getting a new 360 and the PS3 croaking two days before KZ2?  :gloomy

spoiler (click to show/hide)
nxe is better than expected  :shh

:bow Xbox 360 :bow2
[close]
stfu duckman, you complained about the old dashboard, which was good, now you think NXE is better than expected, when the NXE is horrible and worse than the old dashboard. smh @ Fucking fanboy justifying his console purchase.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 02:11:09 AM
I mean i understand having a crap budget, and not being able to dedicate resources to the development of a story, but it's not the case here.

GOw 1 had a crap story, but it did have fun characters.

This is exactly what I've been saying. Budgets for a game this big are over $10,000,000. You could pay me $50k and I'd give you an awesome story full of great characters and dialogue. For much less than 1% of your budget, I could make your game at least 10% better.

Right, but could you implement the story in a non-intrusive way, and in a way that allowed the focus to remain squarely on the gameplay, in this case combat? Halo 1 is as far I'm concerned perfect in this regard (with the sequel being a miserable failure). Just enough of a simple but engaging space marine story to connect the skirmishes and give you a basic reason to push along. COD4 is a reasonably good example, but then that game relies on taking the control away from the player at key points in order to push story elements in-game.

stfu duckman, you complained about the old dashboard, which was good, now you think NXE is better than expected, when the NXE is horrible and worse than the old dashboard. smh @ Fucking fanboy justifying his console purchase.

Pfft. The nxe is nice. It's still too linear and I fucking hate the ads being right in the damned navigation, but it's a hell of a lot more pleasant than the shitty shit hard-framed blade shit. I've seen less buggered UIs in a 1st year art student's Shockwave demo.

:piss blades :piss2

spoiler (click to show/hide)
And for the record, you might be surprised over how easy it is to justify a 360 Premium for $100.  :usacry
[close]


The one time I went to a midnight launch was for Halo 2 at the same store.  It wasn't worth it AT ALL.  Had to wait in line for like an hour just to hand them my receipt and get my copy.  Felt for the clerk, too.  Poor guy was still there hours later the next day when I went back for something else.

I went to the Halo 2 launch as well. The dude behind me seemed to have a nerd career in lining up for things, as he told many tales of how this line was nothing compared to the line for Star Wars tickets, and some other line he apparently hung out in.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on February 27, 2009, 02:41:32 AM
nxe shits all over the old dashboard

if you're having problems remembering where shit is in nxe you might wanna consider some ginkgo biloba
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on February 27, 2009, 08:05:34 AM
Well i did say only about 1% of games released end up having an interesting and good story.

I mean i understand having a crap budget, and not being able to dedicate resources to the development of a story, but it's not the case here.

GOw 1 had a crap story, but it did have fun characters.
I will say this, KZ2 is setup for multiple playthroughs.  Gears 2, as an example, really was not as there were too many slow scenes mixed in with the set piece battles.  What was more annoying in that case is that they did use more time for narrative and still didn't do much with it.  That entire segment halfway through the game (the lab before the razor hail appears) could have been used for so much, but it didn't really go anywhere.  Replaying segments like that, however, is not particularly satisfying.

KZ2 is basically nothing but set piece battles and virtually every battle is really good.  There is very little narrative downtime.

The way the story is presented in Killzone 2 actually reminds me of Crysis.  There's less mystery, of course, but it plays out in a similar fashion.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on February 27, 2009, 09:36:40 AM
The game didn't arrive today, so I'm expecting it this monday....but the Post is going on a 3-day strike starting that monday. Jesus christ.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 10:32:20 AM
I hope I don't need a preorder to pick this up at GS, I don't feel like driving out to where I preordered it.

Can't you used your pre-order at any store? I know Ive done it a few times.

I called and they said no lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 11:42:28 AM
Word. They had non-preorder copies anyway.

I have it :hyper
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 12:17:33 PM
dark10x's solution really isn't cutting it for me. It works well if you want to peek above your cover, but it's useless if you want to shoot someone that's to the left or right. I think I'll just play through on Normal

They could've fixed this by making cover toggle, or making you automatically peek when you held the ironsights button. Having to hold L1, L2, AND forward on the analog stick before you even get to fire your gun is distinguished mentally-challenged.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on February 27, 2009, 01:20:02 PM
Quote
dark10x's solution really isn't cutting it for me. It works well if you want to peek above your cover, but it's useless if you want to shoot someone that's to the left or right. I think I'll just play through on Normal
See, peeking left or right really didn't seem all that useful or necessary to me.  I've found the game to be more enjoyable if you keep moving rather than trying to rely on cover.  When I do lean to the left or right I simply don't use iron sights as they aren't that necessary at medium to close range.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 01:25:02 PM
I tried playing it run and gun on the higher difficulty and I took damage too fast, so I had to keep tucking myself behind walls for 15 seconds at a time like Resistance 2.

The gameplay is tuned for stop and pop but the controls are meant for run and gun, it's annoying.


edit - these complaints come from playing on Advanced/Veteran/Whatever, not for Normal. Run and gun works fine on normal


Not to nitpick too much, but another minor issue - I feel like it really takes me out of the game when I can't open a damn door without my friend doing it for me. Why couldn't they let the O button trigger a kick-the-door down animation like in Gears? That would be a pretty awesome effect and wouldn't require me to stand around like a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow waiting for my allies to show up. Mission 2 starts off with you putting a bomb on a door though so maybe that'll improve.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 27, 2009, 01:33:24 PM
this game is pretty damn good so far  (about an hour+ in.)  Still not the biggest fan of the controls, and I wish I could play with keyboard and mouse, but everything else is great.  The cutscenes are really good too; just how high was the budget for this game? the only thing off about the presentation is the voice acting, which isn't a big problem since it's mostly drowned out by the explosions and various other sound effects.

the smg is the best weapon so far; enemies get fucked up so fast with it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 01:36:06 PM
I'm guessing the SMG is going to be a pretty popular weapon due to the handling of that gun making it the most "COD4ish" weapon in the game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 01:36:34 PM
All that you said is true. I"ll have to try the SMG, I figured they'd suck so I've been avoiding them.

It's funny how the one-gun system means that this game is required to give you whatever gun you need for a given situation, and yet it feels 10x more natural than R2 and is not a complaint at all.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 01:40:01 PM
My first impression from playing the beta right after playing Resistance 2 was that they should have doubled down to get this one out for the Fall season, and let Resistance 2 bake for another 6-12 months. Maybe that wasn't a realistic option, but it already felt more complete than R2 even without any SP at all.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 27, 2009, 01:40:40 PM
Not to nitpick too much, but another minor issue - I feel like it really takes me out of the game when I can't open a damn door without my friend doing it for me. Why couldn't they let the O button trigger a kick-the-door down animation like in Gears? That would be a pretty awesome effect and wouldn't require me to stand around like a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow waiting for my allies to show up. Mission 2 starts off with you putting a bomb on a door though so maybe that'll improve.

yeah, that is a bit annoying.  The game does a good job of hiding the fact that you're clearing out rooms, then waiting for the guy to open the path, but it becomes pretty clear once you finish everything and realize you need to go somewhere to signal the move.  The sixaxis stuff so far is also pretty dumb.  Opening the valve and planing that bomb were just like "ok, a button would be less stupid."

One small thing that I really do like about the game (and I don't think others will care about) is how they do a good job of making it seem like you're actually invading the place.  So many games do that thing where you kill an enemy on a turret, then run over to that turret yourself, and suddenly enemies flood out to be easy pickings from the location you just were.  KZ2 has it so that after you clear out an area and there are turrets all around, there would be useless since they were pointing at the direction you came from, so no other enemies would come from that direction since you killed them all on your way there.

And the tank section was so-so.  It controlled better than I expected it to, but it's kinda like the mech bits in FEAR 2; just point and click until the event is over.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 01:42:40 PM
Another thing - it's pretty cool to play as an invading force, I can't think of many games that really try to do that.


edit - haha, you already said that

The valve-opening is abominable because it takes two buttons, and you have to constantly release and re-press them, but I thought the bomb planting minigame was pretty cool.

I liked the tank bit well enough, but yea it was just fluff
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 01:46:09 PM
The sixaxis stuff so far is also pretty dumb.  Opening the valve and planing that bomb were just like "ok, a button would be less stupid."

On the flipside, I think the sniper implementation works the other way around, making the old "hold button to steady aim" seem sort of dumb. Not that it's completely realistic or anything, but it's more natural.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 01:52:22 PM
Am I wrong or is the STA14 rifle a piece of shit?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 01:55:22 PM
Is that the Helghast basic AR? If so, yeah, I never liked it much. Higher ROF and greater ammo capacity, but the ISA rifle is just plain better.


Some dude on GAF just ran into his first Saboteur:

"One fucking annoying bug(?) though. The enemy transformed into my teammates for a split second for about two consecutive times. This happened more than 5 times, highly confusing since I didn't shoot them but they killed me.

FIX THIS SHIT GUERILLA"
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on February 27, 2009, 01:59:45 PM
Quote
I tried playing it run and gun on the higher difficulty and I took damage too fast, so I had to keep tucking myself behind walls for 15 seconds at a time like Resistance 2.
I'm not saying to play it run and gun, though.  I use cover all the time, but I'm constantly moving from cover piece to cover piece rather than simply holding back and picking enemies off.  I can understand your complaints, though, as it took a while for me to get really used to the game.  It wasn't until the third or fourth mission that I started to really feel the controls.  Honestly, I think the second level (the one that first appeared at E3 2007) is actually my least favorite in the game (it looks amazing, but relies too heavily on corridor shooting).
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 02:00:45 PM
Is that the Helghast basic AR? If so, yeah, I never liked it much. Higher ROF and greater ammo capacity, but the ISA rifle is just plain better.


Some dude on GAF just ran into his first Saboteur:

"One fucking annoying bug(?) though. The enemy transformed into my teammates for a split second for about two consecutive times. This happened more than 5 times, highly confusing since I didn't shoot them but they killed me.

FIX THIS SHIT GUERILLA"

No, it's the one that only has like 8 shots to a clip and isn't full auto
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 02:02:57 PM
Oh, that one. I just plain don't get those types of rifles. But it's pretty powerful, and apparently it's capable of decapitating enemies.

This game has spies? Does multiplayer have spies too?

Yeah, it's a specific multiplayer class. My personal favorite as you're basically a walking trap. There were tons of threads about this "bug" on the beta forum, sort of funny.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 02:04:31 PM
I feel like it still takes a ton of shots to bring a guy down with one, maybe I just need to get used to the controls.

duckman, how do you identify spies?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on February 27, 2009, 02:05:08 PM
This game has spies? Does multiplayer have spies too?
The Saboteur is a multiplayer only class, so yes.  :P
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 02:06:18 PM
I feel like it still takes a ton of shots to bring a guy down with one, maybe I just need to get used to the controls.

duckman, how do you identify spies?

Unless they changed it since the beta, your crosshair will turn red when you're aiming at a saboteur. They also reveal themselves once they engage an enemy, so it's purely a hit and retreat class.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on February 27, 2009, 02:07:11 PM
I goooot it I goooot it! My PSN is FatalT1
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 02:11:14 PM
I feel like it still takes a ton of shots to bring a guy down with one, maybe I just need to get used to the controls.

duckman, how do you identify spies?

Unless they changed it since the beta, your crosshair will turn red when you're aiming at a saboteur. They also reveal themselves once they engage an enemy, so it's purely a hit and retreat class.


Can they re-disguise after they kill the guy?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 02:19:22 PM
I feel like it still takes a ton of shots to bring a guy down with one, maybe I just need to get used to the controls.

duckman, how do you identify spies?

Unless they changed it since the beta, your crosshair will turn red when you're aiming at a saboteur. They also reveal themselves once they engage an enemy, so it's purely a hit and retreat class.


Can they re-disguise after they kill the guy?

The ability has to "recharge" before they can reactivate the disguise.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 27, 2009, 03:31:06 PM
with the exception of the enemy assault rifle, every single weapon in this game is awesome.  Even the flame thrower that looked really lame in videos is awesome.  And SMG is no longer the best, the shotgun is.

and yeah, the motion control stuff on the sniper is actually pretty cool.  Keeping it steady is easy, but fine tuning shots is great.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 03:36:34 PM
This game has spies? Does multiplayer have spies too?
The Saboteur is a multiplayer only class, so yes.  :P

Sold. Are they cheap spies like in TF2? Or can I really be a bastard?

I'm not sure what the spies in TF2 are like, but the saboteurs are basically in-game trolls. And as long as you stay out of the enemy's sights and hold your fire, you're basically undetectable. You even adopt the name of a player on the opposing team while the disguise is enabled, so yeah... it's fun. If you can get just behind a group of enemies, you can pretty easily cause some mass damage with a cooked grenade. Of course, once you're spotted, it's hard to get away with it since everyone is on the look out for suspicious characters.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 03:39:16 PM
I've been using the enemy rifle a lot in SP because the ammo is so plentiful.

Also I'm on mission 3 or 4 and the campaign is already getting boring. I hope they shake things up at some point, but I kinda doubt it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 05:56:34 PM
Looks like they outsourced this ATAC battle to Insomniac
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 06:42:36 PM
Fuck it, found it at Best Buy so now I need to cancel the online order. Are you guys playing MP yet? I'll be on after Midnight EST, hopefully they haven't changed too much since the beta.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 27, 2009, 06:44:26 PM
I think I'm on the last or second to last mission in single player if the trophies are accurate, and unless these last parts completely suck, then this game is pretty damn awesome campaign wise.  Probably also the best assortment of weapons in a game in a long time.  I thought the one weapon thing would suck big time since you'd never have the right weapon or be stuck with a scrub weapon, but every single gun in this game (except the enemy rifle, which still isn't bad) is really good.  There is never a point when I feel like a battle/situation is harder because I have the wrong weapon.  Well, I guess the good guy revolver kinda sucks, but the enemy semi-auto one is great.

I'll play online after I finish the campaign, but I'm still trying to figure out how to use a headset now that I wear headphones when playing the game (for 5.1, DTS, etc.)  I'll probably click the Sony one to my shirt or something, hopefully that can work out. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on February 27, 2009, 06:46:50 PM
I got the game around noon and I'm surprised I like the campaign this much.  Lowered expectations ftw.

I guess my only complaints are a) I've already seen virtually everything I've played months beforehand in previews, b) the control lag and acceleration makes aiming harder than it should be (and in MP, there's hardly any lag so I don't know why Guerrilla did this), and c) the SP seems awfully short; I'm starting on the fifth level, there's ten levels total, and I've literally played the SP for only 1 hour 56 minutes.

But other than those three things KZ2's awesome.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 27, 2009, 07:05:03 PM
I'm pretty sure there are only 9 missions lol

I just finished Suljeva, 3 to go. I am not at all impressed by the campaign,  but it's ok
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 08:22:25 PM
Holy shit, that first level is a shitload better on Veteran. Took me forever to get through the floodgate section.  Pretty awesome so far. The Helghast actually put up a good fight. :hyper

Although, I have so many red dots on the screen now that I'm starting to have difficulty distinguishing the Helghast from signs of impending GPU failure.  :gloomy

c) the SP seems awfully short; I'm starting on the fifth level, there's ten levels total, and I've literally played the SP for only 1 hour 56 minutes.

:wtf It took me like 45 minutes just to get through the first level.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 27, 2009, 09:27:20 PM
lol, so the last mission actually kinda the worst one.  Overall it was a great game.  Don't know much about the overall story of the killzone universe, so, I didn't care about that stuff...the cutscene were still pretty cool.

and just to add one more insult to Resistance 2, there is a level in KZ2 that has a similar theme to one in R2, but if you put them side by side it looks like a general leap in terms of graphics.

checked the stats.  Just over 6 hours on the game clock, so yeah, really short game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on February 27, 2009, 09:58:02 PM
Holy shit, that first level is a shitload better on Veteran. Took me forever to get through the floodgate section.  Pretty awesome so far. The Helghast actually put up a good fight. :hyper

Although, I have so many red dots on the screen now that I'm starting to have difficulty distinguishing the Helghast from signs of impending GPU failure.  :gloomy

c) the SP seems awfully short; I'm starting on the fifth level, there's ten levels total, and I've literally played the SP for only 1 hour 56 minutes.

:wtf It took me like 45 minutes just to get through the first level.

Oh, you're playing on veteran.  I'm on normal; I'm not dying very often.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 10:22:35 PM
Oh, you're playing on veteran.  I'm on normal; I'm not dying very often.

Now why on earth would you want to do that? Comparing the demo (normal) to this, it's almost like a whole other game. A bit like Halo's Heroic, tough but not impossible. Then again, I did my first playthrough of Halo 3 on normal difficulty, so hey.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on February 27, 2009, 10:30:38 PM
I got it and have been playing a bit of multiplayer.  I can dig this a hell of a lot more than I did Resistance 2, but I am having trouble aiming.  Any tips on sensitivity?

So far this game isn't going to be beating Halo 3 in my book, but I like it a hell of a lot more than CoD4.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 10:34:02 PM
I got it and have been playing a bit of multiplayer.  I can dig this a hell of a lot more than I did Resistance 2, but I am having trouble aiming.  Any tips on sensitivity?

Everyone will disagree with me, but I like having horizontal set to about 50%, and vertical set to around 25%. When I use higher sensitivity, I feel like I'm playing COD, and the game itself isn't really like that. So lower sensitivity with horizontal bias works for me. Another thing that I noticed in the beta was that it was almost easier to come to terms with the controls when playing without crosshair. I imagine the reason for that is that you aren't trying to make sense of the relation between the gun movement and the steadiness of the reticle.

Hey, did anyone else notice that there was no rumble feedback when using the tank MG? Sort of weird, I thought I had accidentally picked up the old sixaxis.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 27, 2009, 11:12:28 PM
multiplayer is fun, but I'm struggling a bit more with the controls in it.

and when am I supposed to get other weapons and shit?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 27, 2009, 11:14:25 PM
When you have earned them  :P

You will get the SMG fairly quick though, if that's what you're looking for.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 27, 2009, 11:27:27 PM
Either I'm awesome or everyone on gaf sucks.  Every match I've played for an hour and a half, I was in the lead.

jinxed myself...
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on February 27, 2009, 11:46:04 PM
my copy should arrive sometime next week. i even bought a bluetooth headset for my ps3 as well
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 01:21:35 AM
I got it and have been playing a bit of multiplayer.  I can dig this a hell of a lot more than I did Resistance 2, but I am having trouble aiming.  Any tips on sensitivity?

So far this game isn't going to be beating Halo 3 in my book, but I like it a hell of a lot more than CoD4.

so far I can't say if it beats halo 3 or cod4 in terms of multiplayer for me, but it is the first online fps since CoD4 I can see myself seriously getting into.  Single player wise KZ2 is leagues better than CoD4, Gears 1 and Resistance 1/2; probably on par with Halo 3 and Gears 2 single player.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on February 28, 2009, 01:22:40 AM
Well, I caved and bought a PS3 tonight, in spite of my better judgment. This game is a piece of shit. The controls are absolutely terrible. It is really hard to describe, but it is almost like they got the acceleration wrong in terms of turn speed or something. Uggh.

jesus, psn has to have the weakest gamers. I only played 4 or 5 games of multi and I was at or near the top in every single game, and this despite the fact that I hate the dualshock design which is giving me hand cramps after my 6 hour gaming session tonight. The mutliplayer is much more fun than the singleplayer, but I still have problems with the aiming and controls. I will be playing for the rest of this week if anyone wants to play, but I am probably going to return or sell the PS3 by the end of the week. what an overpriced piece of shit

PSN ID: DoucheMouth
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 01:38:26 AM
the aiming is really weird.  In single player I didn't have a problem because it was mainly straight forward and you were never getting attacked from the rear, but multiplayer kinda makes the problems really apparent.  The plays like a slower CoD4 online, except the controls can't really keep up with the action at times.  The slow reloading and momentum in movement is fine with me, it's just the aiming/turning.  I have a hard enough time with dual analog controls already.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on February 28, 2009, 01:43:02 AM
i've played the demo at least a dozen times and still find the controls awful.

i'm just hoping that aiming and turning speed isn't as bad in MP as it is in SP
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 02:30:34 AM
the aiming is really weird.  In single player I didn't have a problem because it was mainly straight forward and you were never getting attacked from the rear, but multiplayer kinda makes the problems really apparent.  The plays like a slower CoD4 online, except the controls can't really keep up with the action at times.  The slow reloading and momentum in movement is fine with me, it's just the aiming/turning.  I have a hard enough time with dual analog controls already.

Eh, really? They have changed the controls online quite a bit, it's a lot less "weighted" now. I'm not having much of a problem, but I've only played one game online so far. I actually had some trouble with the Blood Meridian level in SP as it's just slightly different from the Blood Gracht map.

As for SP, it's fucking hot. The Helghast as an enemy force is pure shooter entertainment, in a brutal way. Feels sort of like COD level aggression dropped into a Rainbow/Ghost scenario. Again, though, that's for veteran, I don't know how it works on normal.

Well, I caved and bought a PS3 tonight, in spite of my better judgment. This game is a piece of shit. The controls are absolutely terrible. It is really hard to describe, but it is almost like they got the acceleration wrong in terms of turn speed or something. Uggh.

And this from the guy who liked KZ1.  :wtf
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Himu on February 28, 2009, 02:34:41 AM
When I played the demo I just couldn't get used to the controls, probably because I'm not used to playing fps on ps3. RE5 has better controls by far.

So how good is the game? Did Sony finally get their "halo killer"?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 02:37:01 AM
It's wicked good. But you sort of have to be interested in a game that does little more than present you with skirmish after skirmish, and as far as I can tell, it never really lets up. There might be some downtime later on, but so far it's been one brutal encounter after the other.

As for being a "Halo killer," I'm actually playing through Halo 3 as well right now, and the entertainment you get from the firefights is about the same. Very different games, but I'd say that Bungie really struck gold with their implementation of vehicles, in that they offered a natural breather from the regular combat without actually taking you away from the action. I don't think that will ever be bested.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on February 28, 2009, 06:25:23 AM
I unlocked the medic badge in multiplayer yesterday but I'm still only at level 2 or so in the campaign. I'm playing through on Veteran and it's a nice challenge. I can't wait to revive some bitches when I get off work!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on February 28, 2009, 07:39:53 AM
It's wicked good. But you sort of have to be interested in a game that does little more than present you with skirmish after skirmish, and as far as I can tell, it never really lets up. There might be some downtime later on, but so far it's been one brutal encounter after the other.

As for being a "Halo killer," I'm actually playing through Halo 3 as well right now, and the entertainment you get from the firefights is about the same. Very different games, but I'd say that Bungie really struck gold with their implementation of vehicles, in that they offered a natural breather from the regular combat without actually taking you away from the action. I don't think that will ever be bested.

Yeah, very nicely said. That's my problem with the 'variety' in Gears 2, dark10x said it and I agree with him that it slows down the game and detracts from it (cause you just want to be shooting and use cover), especially on multiple playthroughs. I think Halo's gameplay scales very well, from big firefights to close quarters, to vehicles.

I'd rather have Gears 1 style, where they nail combat and just give you that...than Gears 2, where they nail combat but they make you play through stuff that just isn't that good and you just want to get it over with. It starts to feel like grinding. If gameplay is good enough and you design the scenarios with good pacing it can support that 'lack' of 'variety' (like in Gears 1) just fine and, from the KZ2 demo, I'm expecting that'll be the case too.

I'm glad I got used to the controls before I got my hands on the full game so I can jump in straight away and not have to fumble for first hour or two.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Cheebs on February 28, 2009, 10:39:23 AM
How is the skirmish mode? The removal of bots from FPS multiplayer was something I always hated since I always loved to practice against them. Is it restricted to what you can do in that mode, like could you do 1 on 1 vs a bot if you felt like it?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 11:06:10 AM
one thing I'm curious about is why the game doesn't have co-op.  I don't know if this is a spoiler or not, but
spoiler (click to show/hide)
there is only one real section in the game when sev is alone; even in the vehicle sections you have teammates running around near you.
[close]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on February 28, 2009, 11:17:03 AM
That's it. I reformatted my hdd and wiped all my information from the system, this thing is going back to BestBuy today, after owning it for less than 24 hours. The system exceeded my worst expectations in terms of shittiness. I think I have carpel tunnel from the less than 8 hours of gaming that I got out of the machine between last night and this morning. Apologies to swaggaz and FatalT for the friend request that I sent you this morning, you can just ignore them. I won't be getting a PS3 again any time soon, if ever again. And here I thought Tom Chick's comments about not being motivated to finish the game were just hyperbole.

:bow Tom Chick

*side note: anyone else think that the assault rifle is unbalanced for multiplayer? I mean, I could basically camp half the map away and snipe at enemies. I think that thing is way too accurate for multiplayer.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 11:20:41 AM
one thing I'm curious about is why the game doesn't have co-op.  I don't know if this is a spoiler or not, but
spoiler (click to show/hide)
there is only one real section in the game when sev is alone; even in the vehicle sections you have teammates running around near you.
[close]

Not sure. I mean, other than the much likelier option of them simply not having the time and resources to get co-op in on time, the only other thing I could think of is that the game could become very frustrating if one guy falls in battle, and the other dude not having a chance to revive him until the battle is over. It's easy to get pinned down, and you can't just run to the next check-point. But I don't think that is really a valid reason for its absence, so it's probably a matter of resource allocation.

How is the skirmish mode? The removal of bots from FPS multiplayer was something I always hated since I always loved to practice against them. Is it restricted to what you can do in that mode, like could you do 1 on 1 vs a bot if you felt like it?

I've only browsed it, but it seems to have a decent number of features and settings, including bot amount and difficulty.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on February 28, 2009, 11:35:42 AM
The graphics are pretty good.  I'm surprised they cut the intro bit on the ship out of the demo; it looks better than the demo section itself.

Only played a little past where the demo ended.  Going to save the game until after I finish SO4.  Aiming still feels weird, but at least the environment feels very immersive unlike a lot of FPS games.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 12:28:21 PM
:bow kestastrophe :bow2
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on February 28, 2009, 01:13:49 PM
homovonio, didn't you play the demo?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 01:26:31 PM
The objectives are standard, but there aren't many shooters out there with firefights this intense. The Helghast is also a very capable and fun enemy to fight. The worst part so far was that small tank section, and that's simply because it interrupted the infantry action.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 01:28:17 PM
I still can't get used to the controls online.  I tried slower and faster, nothing is really feeling right to me.  Two big problems:  1) I almost never know how I've been killed, or get killed in a firefight, or even if I do, I don't understand why.  2) if there is a situation I'm going into where I know the solution and exactly what I'm supposed to do, I still can't pull it off like I should be able to.  Like, in this last match there is a guy in a room up the stairs to the right; I know this guy is up there, I have my shotgun out, and I know I could do this if the controls worked for me, but they don't.  Having problems with the controls is a pretty damn big problem to have, but I like every other aspect of the multiplayer (except having to gain ranks to unlock classes), so it's bothering me even more.  If KZ2 was on PC, I could get so much more into it; hell, even if it had CoD4 360 controls (didn't try the PS3 CoD4, so I'm not sure if they held up there) I'd get so much more into it.

Again, everything but the controls for multiplayer is amazing.  It's like a slower CoD4 + TF2, and the modes where you keep switching game types is so awesome and more games need to do this (Saints Row 2 does it as well.)  
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 01:29:39 PM
Try turning off the crosshairs and see how it changes your game. It worked for me, but it obviously made long range combat a bit dodgier. And I still don't believe that higher aiming sensitivity is for the better in this game, but I guess that's a matter of preference.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on February 28, 2009, 01:30:38 PM
^ Well, I actually liked and finished the first game, despite its flaws. And with KZ2, I don't really have a problem looking past the game's "me too" and samey nature, as well as some of the design flaws, since the vast majority of games tend to exhibit these. However, the gameplay itself is unforgivable and damn near unplayable. I wish I had the opportunity to try out the demo first, however I did not have that luxury and hence wasted my time and money. The multiplayer is good fun though, even with the shitty shit shit controls. I wanted to like this game so bad  :'(
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 01:33:41 PM
^ Well, I actually liked and finished the first game

Seriously now, if you could fucking stand the controls in KZ1, this should be heaven. I guess you just have poor taste in games.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on February 28, 2009, 01:35:10 PM
swaggaz, I had the same feeling. The aim acceleration feels like you are just swinging wildly about, at all levels of sensitivity. I had good success with long-range combat dues to the preciseness of the assault rifle, but I found close range to be near impossible and thus the shotgun unusable.

Seriously now, if you could fucking stand the controls in KZ1, this should be heaven. I guess you just have poor taste in games.


You got me ::)

Perhaps it is merely the passage of time (the original came out in 2004) and the sheer number of quality FPSs that I have played since the original has changed my perspective, but I don't remember KZ controls feeling like swinging an elephant on the end of a pole. But yeah, I just want to hate on the game. That's why I went out and dropped $400 on a PS3 last night  ::)
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 01:37:40 PM
It's all about small movements.  You won't have accurate aim and movement when turning 90 degrees in a split second, as you would in most other games. It's not for everyone, but it's perfectly playable.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on February 28, 2009, 01:38:54 PM
I really like that the game let's you see your next checkpoint.  Every game needs this.  I hate getting lost because all the environment looks the same.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on February 28, 2009, 01:40:41 PM
sounds like i wasted some money

ah well, at least the graphics are nice! :(

I really like that the game let's you see your next checkpoint.  Every game needs this.  I hate getting lost because all the environment looks the same.

i agree. fear 2 pissed me off because i would often not have any idea where to go.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: TEEEPO on February 28, 2009, 01:41:41 PM
I disagree with dark10x completely. There was nothing wrong with Gears 2's vehicle sections at all. I thought they were a blast to play through.

i had no problem when flying the tentacle monster but the tank portions were embarrassingly bad.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on February 28, 2009, 01:42:12 PM
I really want to like the game more than I do, but the shitty controls just keep getting in the way of the genuinely fun scenarios and well-tuned Veteran difficulty.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 01:43:41 PM
You got me ::)

Perhaps it is merely the passage of time (the original came out in 2004) and the sheer number of quality FPSs that I have played since the original has changed my perspective, but I don't remember KZ controls feeling like swinging an elephant on the end of a pole. But yeah, I just want to hate on the game. That's why I went out and dropped $400 on a PS3 last night  ::)

No offense here, but if you dropped $400 on a PS3 last night, "against your better judgment," that would sound like a prime reason to be less than patient with a game. And KZ1 had absolutely shit controls, which this does not. I already said in the beta thread that it would require adjustment and that some would probably never get accustomed to it, but it is very playable.

That said, I think they could have just left the cover system out. Maybe it's different in later levels, but so far I haven't used the actual cover system much, despite the higher difficulty setting.

I really want to like the game more than I do, but the shitty controls just keep getting in the way of the genuinely fun scenarios and well-tuned Veteran difficulty.

A lot of weaklings in here.  :gloomy
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 01:43:44 PM
Try turning off the crosshairs and see how it changes your game. It worked for me, but it obviously made long range combat a bit dodgier. And I still don't believe that higher aiming sensitivity is for the better in this game, but I guess that's a matter of preference.


I did that in the demo and it was kinda cool, but didn't really change the way I played much, it just enhanced the presentation.  I'll try it out in multiplayer some and hopefully it helps.

swaggaz, I had the same feeling. The aim acceleration feels like you are just swinging wildly about, at all levels of sensitivity. I had good success with long-range combat dues to the preciseness of the assault rifle, but I found close range to be near impossible and thus the shotgun unusable.

I used the shotgun in the past few rounds and even when I got kills, I didn't feel like I was skillful or anything like that.  I don't know if the game has replays, but I'm sure that if you saw it from a third person view, most of the close quarters combat would look ridiculous.  It was the most unnatural movement, both as the character alone and relative to the other players in that area.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 01:49:42 PM
and kz2 really is the best looking console game out there.  I'm still amazed by how good some areas look even in multiplayer.  It's still not as good as Crysis, but it's still very impressive.

i agree. fear 2 pissed me off because i would often not have any idea where to go.

actually, FEAR 2 had a really simple, almost distinguished mentally-challenged, way of telling you where to go.  It fucking had a giant X on the wall in places to inform you.  At first I didn't know if that was the intention since they just seemed like random graffiti, but then I noticed that where I needed to go in places had an X sprayed on the wall.  I guess it was so simple that everyone missed it.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 01:52:10 PM
Try turning off the crosshairs and see how it changes your game. It worked for me, but it obviously made long range combat a bit dodgier. And I still don't believe that higher aiming sensitivity is for the better in this game, but I guess that's a matter of preference.


I did that in the demo and it was kinda cool, but didn't really change the way I played much, it just enhanced the presentation.  I'll try it out in multiplayer some and hopefully it helps.

It might, or it might not. It's mostly a matter of just getting used to it though, as annoying as that sounds. You won't ever have that 90 degree split second pin point precisions, but tracking enemies should become a lot more natural once you get used to it. About the unlockables, I'm not sure I'm going to stick with MP, to be honest. I don't have the time needed to get into unlocking these classes.

By the way, remember the 180 degree quickturn button I wanted the MP to have? Does that make more sense now that you've played it? If they made it an over-the-head motion, they wouldn't even need to really sacrifice the "realism."
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on February 28, 2009, 01:55:16 PM
Try turning off the crosshairs and see how it changes your game. It worked for me, but it obviously made long range combat a bit dodgier. And I still don't believe that higher aiming sensitivity is for the better in this game, but I guess that's a matter of preference.


I did that in the demo and it was kinda cool, but didn't really change the way I played much, it just enhanced the presentation.  I'll try it out in multiplayer some and hopefully it helps.

swaggaz, I had the same feeling. The aim acceleration feels like you are just swinging wildly about, at all levels of sensitivity. I had good success with long-range combat dues to the preciseness of the assault rifle, but I found close range to be near impossible and thus the shotgun unusable.

I used the shotgun in the past few rounds and even when I got kills, I didn't feel like I was skillful or anything like that.  I don't know if the game has replays, but I'm sure that if you saw it from a third person view, most of the close quarters combat would look ridiculous.  It was the most unnatural movement, both as the character alone and relative to the other players in that area.



it does have something called "battle replay" which you access from your profile on the site.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on February 28, 2009, 01:57:38 PM
i agree. fear 2 pissed me off because i would often not have any idea where to go.

actually, FEAR 2 had a really simple, almost distinguished mentally-challenged, way of telling you where to go.  It fucking had a giant X on the wall in places to inform you.  At first I didn't know if that was the intention since they just seemed like random graffiti, but then I noticed that where I needed to go in places had an X sprayed on the wall.  I guess it was so simple that everyone missed it.



did it tell you this in the manual or did they just assume everyone would notice? i wouldn't know since i only rented it
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 01:59:13 PM
By the way, remember the 180 degree quickturn button I wanted the MP to have? Does that make more sense now that you've played it?

with how the controls currently are, it would really help, but if they had a control style more like the games I mentioned before, then there no need for it.  Toggle crouch would also help a lot.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on February 28, 2009, 01:59:50 PM
http://www.killzone.com/kz/performance_fullwarstats.psml?kz_user_id=DoucheMouth (http://www.killzone.com/kz/performance_fullwarstats.psml?kz_user_id=DoucheMouth)

DoucheMouth  :'(

114 kills
79 deaths



Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 02:05:57 PM
If there's anything I've learned about Guerrilla in the past few months, it'd be that they are fairly open to adjusting the game based on feedback. They will never abandon the "weighted" style, but if it's a problem for enough many players, they will adjust it. Online MP lives or dies based on player feedback, so there's no way they would keep something that is generally unpopular. Of course, the first week of the beta was filled with threads asking for COD controls, and later you would find the thread authors arguing against changes.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on February 28, 2009, 02:08:32 PM
http://www.killzone.com/kz/performance_fullwarstats.psml?kz_user_id=FatalT1

310 kills
219 deaths

Unf. :D
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 02:27:15 PM
you're pretty good, FatalT1.  At least in the two or so game I played with you earlier, you were on top or near top.  The guy who kept winning those matches was the guy building all those turrets.

did it tell you this in the manual or did they just assume everyone would notice? i wouldn't know since i only rented it

I usually don't read manuals, so I'm not sure.

171 Kills
138 Deaths
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on February 28, 2009, 02:33:54 PM
when i get the game please add me to your friends list :(

i currently only have 3 psn friends
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 04:42:33 PM
Any of you guys play late nights? I don't usually get online until well after Midnight EST.  :gloomy
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 04:48:10 PM
homovonio, didn't you play the demo?

Yeah, and I liked the demo. Figured I'd give the full game a try since everyone's been giving it such praise.

It all just feels like a been there done that game. "OPEN THE FLOOD GATES! OK NOW COVER US FROM ABOVE! OK NOW TAKE OUT THAT TANK WITH AN RPG!"

The dialogue makes me cringe. "HEY PUCKER UP THAT ASSHOLE I CAN SMELL YOU FROM UP HERE!" I know what they're tyring to do, but it doesn't work if you push it too fucking hard, which they're doing.

 :-\

I'll end up going back to play it, hoping it'll keep my interest for longer than 20 mins at a time.

The whole game is exactly the same shit, it's very boring.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 04:54:41 PM
The whole game is exactly the same shit, it's very boring.

I haven't paid much attention to the VA, I'm too busy trying to survive. Maybe it's more evident in the cut-scenes. Seems about on par with Gears dialog, though, with "fuck" in place of "shit." Although there was one scene that felt particularly forced, where we're being informed about some development down the line, and Garza says "fuck" without knowing anything about the situation. Very unrealistic reaction. And I can't say that I'm feeling much of a connection to any of my team mates. The Helghast actually feel a hell of a lot more alive.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 04:57:56 PM
I was responding more to the first part of the post, I pay zero attention to shooter stories and characters.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 05:04:47 PM
I'll take your word for it, although "boring" has so far not been a term I'd use for anything expect maybe that first tank section (if you can even really call it that); that one was a lot more Resistance than Halo. I'm hoping the mech section is better, or it's back to wishing for a good mech game again.

Did you ever switch back to veteran? Seems like normal would just be a bumrush experience.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 05:05:53 PM
even though I really like the multiplayer, some aspects of it really make me appreciate how much thought IW put into multiplayer in their games.  Just something like the kill cam would be so appreciated here since a lot of times I die and I don't know how.

and the new way I would sum up multiplayer: CoD4 + TF2 + the bad parts of Metal Gear Online
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 05:09:35 PM
even though I really like the multiplayer, some aspects of it really make me appreciate how much thought IW put into multiplayer in their games.  Just something like the kill cam would be so appreciated here since a lot of times I die and I don't know how.

On the flipside of that, though, COD4 shocks me with its complete lack of a real clan system, and the game select options feel borderline tyrannical.
That said, I went back to COD4 after a short stint with the KZ2 beta, and I will probably do the same after a couple of weeks of this. I don't know what it is about COD4, but there is a quality to that game online that just can't be beat.

You should probably mention the kill cam thing on the Killzone 2 forum. I don't see how that would take away anything from the game, and I doubt you're the only one wanting it in.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 05:18:46 PM
yeah, I thought I didn't want a new IW CoD game so soon, but playing this reminds me of how much I do want it.

and the unlocks are really fucking stupid here.  To unlock new weapons, you just upgrade rank; to unlock classes, you upgrade rank.  To unlock abilities within that class or just general abilities, you need to earn badges.  To earn badges and upgrade that class, you need to to perform specific tasks within that specific class.  So, theoretically the only time you will have the 'true' Killzone 2 multiplayer experience is if you unlock every class and every ability within that class.  It's not like CoD4 either where the abilities are balanced and there to fit your play style; classes actually matter and change how you play the game.  It should have had all the classes at their basic level from the start, then upgrades come in the form of their specific abilities and weapon upgrades. Where it's at now is a bunch of samey people running around killing each other with one or two guys who played enough building turrets, but since no one is a fucking saboteur or assault yet, the only way to defeat this guy is to shoot at the turret.  So you have this guy who has a powerful extra that you don't have a counter yet.  It's not balanced, it's stupid.  I've played for maybe 4 hours online and I'm close to getting the engineer, but that's class 2 out of 6 or something.  It's pretty ridiculous.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 05:25:07 PM
Agreed, although I don't know how the game would work if the Scout class was available from the start. It'd be a game filled with nothing but Scouts. With the system they have now, people will probably find classes they like other than the most obvious choice, which would be the guy with the one-hit kill weapon and cloaking ability. That one and whichever the class is that gives you the Rocket launcher, those two should have to be earned through hundreds of games. Maybe give people the sniper rifle from the start, but keep the cloaking ability for later. I just can't imagine the game ever moving away from invisibility if it was offered right away.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 05:26:01 PM
I think I need to restart the whole game to change difficulties. Anyway, there are too many cheap parts for me to bother with that shit.


Also the enemies just use cover too damn much. Why even model their bodies if I'm going to be shooting at the top of their helmets 95% of the time.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 05:31:46 PM
Agreed, although I don't know how the game would work if the Scout class was available from the start. It'd be a game filled with nothing but Scouts. With the system they have now, people will probably find classes they like other than the most obvious choice, which would be the guy with the one-hit kill weapon and cloaking ability. That one and whichever the class is that gives you the Rocket launcher, those two should have to be earned through hundreds of games. Maybe give people the sniper rifle from the start, but keep the cloaking ability for later. I just can't imagine the game ever moving away from invisibility if it was offered right away.

they could have just nerfed the sniper rifle and rocket launcher.  It's not like we won't see games filled with scouts; they are just delaying the inevitable way multiplayer will be.  If the sniper is half as powerful as it was in single player, it's already overpowered in multiplayer.  It was one shot kill anywhere on the body.

in the games I've played, people always just move onto the next class when they get a chance, even if they don't play that class.  People will not heal you in this game even though they picked medic.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 06:03:05 PM
Also the enemies just use cover too damn much. Why even model their bodies if I'm going to be shooting at the top of their helmets 95% of the time.

Oh come the fuck on. :lol  Aside from some balcony bunnies that still pop up well often enough to kill, enemies generally react naturally to the situation. Heavy suppression will keep them bunkered or shifting cover, light suppressive fire will have them on the move (often towards you), and a reload or sequence of no firing will embolden them to move and shift into flanking (or sometimes charging) tactics. It's one of the most active and reactive enemy forces I've ever come across in a game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 06:05:42 PM
Oh come the fuck on. :lol



And wow does this anti aircraft gun part sucks shit. What the hell is my objective?

lol, the first time I beat it and didn't realize it because the game killed me after the closing cutscene started. So I did the same shit all over again, magically didn't die in this cutscene and I now know that was the end of that segment.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 06:18:29 PM
Agreed, although I don't know how the game would work if the Scout class was available from the start. It'd be a game filled with nothing but Scouts. With the system they have now, people will probably find classes they like other than the most obvious choice, which would be the guy with the one-hit kill weapon and cloaking ability. That one and whichever the class is that gives you the Rocket launcher, those two should have to be earned through hundreds of games. Maybe give people the sniper rifle from the start, but keep the cloaking ability for later. I just can't imagine the game ever moving away from invisibility if it was offered right away.

they could have just nerfed the sniper rifle and rocket launcher.  It's not like we won't see games filled with scouts; they are just delaying the inevitable way multiplayer will be.  If the sniper is half as powerful as it was in single player, it's already overpowered in multiplayer.  It was one shot kill anywhere on the body.

Perhaps. On second thought, I think the Saboteur is going to be the most overused class. I can just see whole games filled with nothing but turncoats, that will be real rich. I'd say that limiting the available spots for each class would be one way to control it, but then it'd really suck if you joined late and got stuck with a class you really hate.

As for the weapons, I honestly just don't think the sniper rifle or the rocket launchers fit in. Killzone 2 was pretty obviously designed to be an intimate combat game, so these ranged and splash damage weapons feel out of place. Then again, with the exception of UT, I can't stand rocket launchers in any multiplayer game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Draft on February 28, 2009, 06:23:15 PM
Something I haven't been able to parse. Are the unlockable classes stronger than the classes you start with?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 06:27:40 PM
They have special abilities, such as cloak and disguise. Some of the weapons are more powerful or offer new ways to fight (rocket launcher for splash damage, sniper rifle for ranged combat and SMG for CQB), but the standard ISA rifle is one of the best weapons around so you aren't outclassed by way of equipment.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Draft on February 28, 2009, 06:31:20 PM
That's good.

I was an OG hater of weapon unlocks in COD4 and TF2, but the idea of locking away classes for hours... I mean, Jesus.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 06:33:22 PM
I'm not relishing the idea of having to play a shit ton of matches just to unlock my favorite class from the beta, that's for damned sure.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 06:37:40 PM
As for the weapons, I honestly just don't think the sniper rifle or the rocket launchers fit in. Killzone 2 was pretty obviously designed to be an intimate combat game, so these ranged and splash damage weapons feel out of place. Then again, with the exception of UT, I can't stand rocket launchers in any multiplayer game.


I think they would fit in if everyone had all the classes from the start.  The game has two ways you can play the multiplayer:  when it is that intimate combat game, kinda like CoD4, just slower with a bit more range to the combat; and then the TF4 / CoD4 hybrid where classes work together and each class has their own purpose.  Right now most games are stuck in the middle, so you have over powered people running around fighting you scrub soldiers.  You don't have balance among individuals and you don't have the rock, paper, scissor type of gameplay found in most class based shooters.

Something I haven't been able to parse. Are the unlockable classes stronger than the classes you start with?

In more ways than one.  Even at the most basic level, there is an actual class that lets you run faster and have more health.  Then there are roundabout ways of getting stronger like the ability to both repair / use manned turrets, plant a sentry and drop portable spawn points.  Even the medic class, the first one you get after the original one, only differs from the default class by limiting the weapons you can use to, arguably, the best one.

but as duckman said, you are given the best all around rifle at the start.

this is the progression tree:

(http://i42.tinypic.com/vmrfh5.png)

just for reference sake, the most points I've ever seen someone get from a single match was around 150 (so ~70 or so that gets doubled when you win.)

I'm close to unlocking the light machine guns, and after seeing that chart, I think I'm gonna slow down on how much I play multiplayer.  I originally planned to rush and unlock the classes I wanted, but now I see that it won't happen even if I played everyday and all the time, at least not for a while.  It is probably going to be my side multiplayer game now like L4D was a few months ago.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 06:39:16 PM
I had the same problem with Far Cry and Doom 3. A game built around a showcase engine. I think I'm just done with shooters in general. I'm really hitting the wall here and they just really don't interest me at all.

Again, that might have been true hadn't they obviously put so much work into the combat and interaction with the enemy force. It's definitely been a safe scenario design so far, but the point to point skirmishes are at the top of the class. But yeah, you have to be interested in a pure shooter experience to get much out of it.


Swaggaz, you should probably be hating on me for reporting a dirt easy way to rack up experience points and unlock classes in the beta. You could just create a game, password protect it, set some objectives that involved defending something, and let the game run. 200 points per round.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Draft on February 28, 2009, 06:41:13 PM
Maybe I'm just old fashioned, but I don't like game to game progress like that. I like the old way of making your guy stronger. You pick up a weapon in the map. You buy a weapon before the round begins. You just pick your guns from the same pool everyone else has. And then next round, everyone is back to square one.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 06:44:17 PM
personally, I'm a fan of the counter strike approach. 

Swaggaz, you should probably be hating on me for reporting a dirt easy way to rack up experience points and unlock classes in the beta. You could just create a game, password protect it, set some objectives that involved defending something, and let the game run. 200 points per round.


people found other ways apparently, because the launch patch was to stop people from putting bots in online matches to earn points fast.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 06:46:09 PM
Well, technically you can pick up weapons here: just kill the dude who has what you want. :gun

I didn't think it was that much of a problem in the beta, though. The ISA rifle is very good, and people had a tendency to become stupidly emboldened by their class abilities or new weapons, to the point where it made them easier to kill. Except the damned scouts, the cloaking stuff is just too good. Maybe they can nerf the effect a bit.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Draft on February 28, 2009, 06:48:37 PM
personally, I'm a fan of the counter strike approach. 
Me too, thats my favorite.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 06:49:25 PM
I had the same problem with Far Cry and Doom 3. A game built around a showcase engine. I think I'm just done with shooters in general. I'm really hitting the wall here and they just really don't interest me at all.

Again, that might have been true hadn't they obviously put so much work into the combat and interaction with the enemy force. It's definitely been a safe scenario design so far, but the point to point skirmishes are at the top of the class. But yeah, you have to be interested in a pure shooter experience to get much out of it.


Swaggaz, you should probably be hating on me for reporting a dirt easy way to rack up experience points and unlock classes in the beta. You could just create a game, password protect it, set some objectives that involved defending something, and let the game run. 200 points per round.


Does this still work? Fuck unlocking shit
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 06:55:15 PM
Well, technically you can pick up weapons here: just kill the dude who has what you want. :gun

I didn't think it was that much of a problem in the beta, though. The ISA rifle is very good, and people had a tendency to become stupidly emboldened by their class abilities or new weapons, to the point where it made them easier to kill. Except the damned scouts, the cloaking stuff is just too good. Maybe they can nerf the effect a bit.

I haven't seen a scout yet.  The highest up the ladder I've seen in a match was a tactician and I'm really curious to know the limit of the spawn points they could drop.  It honestly felt like a CoD4 style clone factory there with my squad constantly killing these guys only to have them still pouring out.  The squad system is really cool though.  First game since Battlefield 2 where it feels like your small squad work together well.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Van Cruncheon on February 28, 2009, 06:59:14 PM
JESUS CHRIST THIS GAME IS UNCONTROLLABLE

someone give me some sensitivity settings that approximate halo 3's
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 07:02:24 PM
JESUS CHRIST THIS GAME IS UNCONTROLLABLE

someone give me some sensitivity settings that approximate halo 3's

:wtf Halo 3 is slower than this. Of course, it gives you strong auto-aim, a massive effective damage area and homing weapons to counter it. Time to hit the tar pits, dinosaurs.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on February 28, 2009, 07:03:29 PM
Thanks swaggaz, we'll have to play together some more. Duckman, what's your PSNID? I'm not sure if I have you or not.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 07:05:08 PM
Thanks swaggaz, we'll have to play together some more. Duckman, what's your PSNID? I'm not sure if I have you or not.

Duckaduck. My Crapstation is on life support right now, but hopefully it will hold on for a few matches.

Does this still work? Fuck unlocking shit

No, they changed it so that you don't get any ranking points when playing by yourself or against bots. I only reported it after I had made sure to rank up to General, I guess I should have just kept quiet about it.  :-[

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 07:19:35 PM
JESUS CHRIST THIS GAME IS UNCONTROLLABLE

someone give me some sensitivity settings that approximate halo 3's

:wtf Halo 3 is slower than this. Of course, it gives you strong auto-aim, a massive effective damage area and homing weapons to counter it. Time to hit the tar pits, dinosaurs.


Oh come the fuck on :lol

Halo 3 is way, way faster than this, even at level 6 or so. And it goes up to 9 or 10.

Quote
No, they changed it so that you don't get any ranking points when playing by yourself or against bots. I only reported it after I had made sure to rank up to General, I guess I should have just kept quiet about it.

So if I teamed up with an IRL friend, could we just both leave our PS3s on and go out to eat or something and come back and have mad points?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 07:22:47 PM
Quote
Halo 3 is slower than this.


what??

Turning speed and aiming? It certainly feels that way to me, and I've been going back and forth between the games. I could be wrong, but not by much.

Whatever, though. Maybe if people stopped trying to make the game play like some other game, they would have more luck with it? You can tweak the controls until you're blue in the face, it's never going to feel like Halo 3, or COD.

So if I teamed up with an IRL friend, could we just both leave our PS3s on and go out to eat or something and come back and have mad points?

Probably, although you may not be allowed to password protect it, but I guess you could just set it to smallest amount of players. If you want to try it out and do a point raid, I'll join the game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on February 28, 2009, 07:48:29 PM
I played it with the default settings except for the sensitivity on X and Y bumped up once. I've adapted to the acceleration and I don't really have any problems with it now at all. Game rocks.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 07:49:44 PM
you need to revist Halo 3 , it's vastly faster. Not even close to parity let alone being slower. Give it a whirl. Hell if you jack the sensitivity all the way up in Halo it is painfully fast.

Quote
Whatever, though. Maybe if people stopped trying to make the game play like some other game, they would have more luck with it? You can tweak the controls until you're blue in the face, it's never going to feel like Halo 3, or COD.

I don't want it to feel like those games, i just want it to feel a little less sluggish. I'm enjoying the game so far (not played much as the wife is about to drop the baby) but even with increased sensitivity i feel like i'm fighting against the controls. I appreciate the feeling of weight angle etc etc.

I played Halo 3 (SP) all night last night, in between KZ2 sessions, and it felt slow. Maybe I'll need to check again, but it definitely felt slow. It is precise though, in that you can spin around and still land with pin-point, steady aim. In Killzone 2, there's an additional point of movement, so you need to tone down the aiming and strafing movements in order to achieve precision and avoid overshooting targets. Lowering the sensitivity helps there, but that is obviously less than ideal for multiplayer.

And I wasn't really referring to you with my comment. Nor do I think it's going to click with every player, but trying to emulate some other game probably won't have a desirable effect either. For better or worse, the game is different.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 07:54:13 PM
Halo 3 has sensitivity ranging from 1-10, I think the game defaults at 3.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 07:55:31 PM
Well, :duh is my middle name.

On a separate note, I sincerely hope that Insomniac is taking notes. If you're going to make derivative games, this is how you do it. Well, sans the failed attempts at buddy interaction. Maybe there is a 1 game/year contract between Sony and Insomniac that stops them from putting the time and effort necessary into each game, but if that's the case they really need to rethink the agreement.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 08:20:26 PM
This takes a massive shit on R2 campaign.


GG needs to learn to do things in moderation though. This last setpiece where you are pushing through the enemy lines started off cool... but I can only kill the same enemies using the same cover so many times before it bores me. That's why I'm so up and down on this game. You come to these awesome new environments with great enemy positions, and you feel great, but then you spend 10 minutes there while enemies hop off the same little piece of wall and run to the same piece of cover over and over again and you're sick of it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 08:27:54 PM
I haven't gotten that far so maybe shooter fatigue just hasn't had time to set in, but do you hang back when you play, or do you push forward? I feel that the game really shines when you put your balls on the line and pull off some borderline suicidal tactical stunt. Which would account for why I'm not using cover as much as I probably should, but that's what I have Rainbow Six for.

If there is one blatant flaw to this game, it has to be the combat abilities of your team mate. The fact that the Helghast is such a capable enemy only makes it more obvious how shit these ISA guys are.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Brehvolution on February 28, 2009, 08:28:08 PM
 :violin
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 08:30:20 PM
I haven't gotten that far so maybe shooter fatigue just hasn't had time to set in, but do you hang back when you play, or do you push forward? I feel that the game really shines when you put your balls on the line and pull off some borderline suicidal tactical stunt. Which would account for why I'm not using cover as much as I probably should, but that's what I have Rainbow Six for.

If there is one blatant flaw to this game, it has to be the combat abilities of your team mate. The fact that the Helghast is such a capable enemy only makes it more obvious how shit these ISA guys are.


I decided to run forward after making that post, almost died, but when I crossed a magical line (with all my teammates in the dust) the Hellghast yelled out FULL RETREAT! and all turned their backs on me. Brilliant design.

Now I'm up to the last boss. First order of business? "Fight off his waves of defense!" :drool waves ::)


And yes, your teammates are shit. It's really annoying when you are going up some stairs or ramps off to the side in order to flank the enemy, and your teammates are all standing out in the open in the crossfire. Then they all die and your flank is useless. This game needs co op.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: demi on February 28, 2009, 08:31:17 PM
I beat it on Veteran. I'd give it a 7/10. Ok effort.

Check my trophies if you don't believe me
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: brawndolicious on February 28, 2009, 08:36:52 PM
Swaggaz, you should probably be hating on me for reporting a dirt easy way to rack up experience points and unlock classes in the beta. You could just create a game, password protect it, set some objectives that involved defending something, and let the game run. 200 points per round.
developers have gotten used to people doing this in online shooters so you have to also rubberband the controller.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Sho Nuff on February 28, 2009, 08:42:52 PM
This game's controls are a mess

BTW Resistance 2 is getting cheap here in Japanland, is it worth 30 bucks
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on February 28, 2009, 08:44:56 PM
i should have this by tuesday

thanks gamefly!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 08:59:05 PM
The last encounter of this game is completely fucking atrocious.

Maybe if GG wasn't more concerned with throwing tons of smoke and bloom all over the screen I'd be able to see one of the 6 rocket launching assfucks who are preventing me from poking out for more than a half second at a time.

Or maybe if there was a checkpoint within 10 minutes of this godawful encounter I wouldn't mind trying it again. What a piece of shit this is.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Human Snorenado on February 28, 2009, 08:59:58 PM
So.

I haven't been paying attention to this game at all (too many quality games to play on my Xbox 360, natch) but can someone tell me how far off this is from the hype videos they played at E3 that one year?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 09:03:10 PM
I beat it on Veteran. I'd give it a 7/10. Ok effort.

Check my trophies if you don't believe me

we can't lol

The last encounter of this game is completely fucking atrocious.

Maybe if GG wasn't more concerned with throwing tons of smoke and bloom all over the screen I'd be able to see one of the 6 rocket launching assfucks who are preventing me from poking out for more than a half second at a time.

Or maybe if there was a checkpoint within 10 minutes of this godawful encounter I wouldn't mind trying it again. What a piece of shit this is.

the last encounter did suck.  The last mission was the worst after the
spoiler (click to show/hide)
mech scene, which I thought was alright compared to the so-so vehicle crap earlier in the game and the vehicle stuff in Gears 2.
[close]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 09:06:44 PM
Yea the mech was awesome.

I love the claw hand required to get past that last part. Hold down L2 to cover, L1 to aim, R1 to shoot, push forward the left stick to pop out, then press UP ON THE DPAD to zoom in with the sniper. Now that is some AAA shit. At least it keeps you at 5x zoom after you let go of L1.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 09:41:08 PM
Do later classes get more ammo in their weapons? You get like 2 clips of this AR and you can't pick up an enemy's weapon until after they respawn.

And you turn WAYYY faster in multiplayer, this is more like Halo speeds. I cannot comprehend why they wouldn't use the same controls for SP.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 09:46:00 PM
you get upgrades for extra ammo and extra grenades by doing 8 of something.  I forget exactly what you had to do, but it's not a class or rank based things, it's badge based.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on February 28, 2009, 09:50:25 PM
Sound like the final boss fight can be fucking annoying (based on the bitching at gaf and some of you guys).

No wonder they made a trophy out of it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 09:54:09 PM
you get upgrades for extra ammo and extra grenades by doing 8 of something.  I forget exactly what you had to do, but it's not a class or rank based things, it's badge based.

How many badges can you wear at once?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on February 28, 2009, 09:58:49 PM
you get upgrades for extra ammo and extra grenades by doing 8 of something.  I forget exactly what you had to do, but it's not a class or rank based things, it's badge based.

How many badges can you wear at once?

once you unlock it, you always have it.  It's not like you have to choose or anything.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 10:02:27 PM
Oh, fuck my butt.

What the hell is the point of forcing newbs to have no ammo lol, what a distinguished mentally-challenged setup. Fortunately PSN gamers suck dick so I had a positive K/D even in my first match.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 10:17:59 PM
Two things. Fuck multiplayer. First of all, I suddenly agree with swaggaz, and I blame him for jinxing it. I can't control for shit in MP, all of a sudden. Also, there is no way I'm going to be into this on a level that will ever let me see Saboteur. Maybe back when I had the time and energ to really focus on games, but these days... it's going to be tough. The maps are incredible, though.

Another thing, I just encountered my first moment of total shooter fatigue. One long run of tight encounters, and now a second huge skirmish that just will not end. Apparently, Guerrilla agrees with me as the characters said "is that all of them now?" and "you've got to be shitting me" when it turns out that no, that was in fact not even almost all of them. I'm not sure it's even a bad thing, just a matter of there being very little downtime between major battles. The combat is incredible, but I think it's going to take quite a few breaks to get through this game.

Holy crap at the shit that happens on-screen, though.

Yea the mech was awesome.

I love the claw hand required to get past that last part. Hold down L2 to cover, L1 to aim, R1 to shoot, push forward the left stick to pop out, then press UP ON THE DPAD to zoom in with the sniper. Now that is some AAA shit. At least it keeps you at 5x zoom after you let go of L1.

I have the aim on the stick, and I keep the aim on toggle. Much smoother.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on February 28, 2009, 10:19:26 PM
If you can't pick up your enemies gun, kill them first. They drop their guns after they're fully killed (not lying on the ground waiting to respawn). It took me a bit to figure that out and I'm sure the mortally wounded dudes on the ground who I was running circles around to get their guns were probably laughing at me.

lol @ duck's change of heart on multiplayer :(
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 10:22:45 PM
If you can't pick up your enemies gun, kill them first. They drop their guns after they're fully killed (not lying on the ground waiting to respawn). It took me a bit to figure that out and I'm sure the mortally wounded dudes on the ground who I was running circles around to get their guns were probably laughing at me.

lol @ duck's change of heart on multiplayer :(

Oh, it's just temporary. Well, not the upgrade path stuff, it's really going to take me forever to unlock my favorite badge, and that sucks. This is for people who have a lot of time to sink into games.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on February 28, 2009, 10:28:17 PM
Oh, it's just temporary. Well, not the upgrade path stuff, it's really going to take me forever to unlock my favorite badge, and that sucks. This is for people who have a lot of time to sink into games.


Yeah it will. I've only gotten 3 of my revive ribbons and I really want to be able to use health packs. Battles are just too crazy on 32 player games to easily revive people in a firefight. It's so fun though!

Also you suck for using the bot technique to level up really fast. I'm about to unlock the Engineer patch.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 10:35:05 PM
Oh, I didn't know you could finsih them off.

Duckman what part of the campaign are you at that is stalling your progress?


And I am very into online games but I doubt I will climb halfway up the ranks. Guarantee you that the new Halo 3 maps will get more play from me than this game will. Don't regret the purchase at all though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 10:45:37 PM
Oh, it's just temporary. Well, not the upgrade path stuff, it's really going to take me forever to unlock my favorite badge, and that sucks. This is for people who have a lot of time to sink into games.


Yeah it will. I've only gotten 3 of my revive ribbons and I really want to be able to use health packs. Battles are just too crazy on 32 player games to easily revive people in a firefight. It's so fun though!

Also you suck for using the bot technique to level up really fast. I'm about to unlock the Engineer patch.

I never used the bot technique, as the beta didn't have bots. It was a total chance thing, anyway; I had a legit game running, and the three other players left so I was left to complete the objectives, got all the points and the post-game multiplier.

Oh, I didn't know you could finsih them off.

Duckman what part of the campaign are you at that is stalling your progress?

Visari Square, they just introduced another heavy. It's not impossible, but after a whole level of nothing but intense combat followed by two capture and hold scenarios, I feel sort of crushed and in need of a break.

Guarantee you that the new Halo 3 maps will get more play from me than this game will. Don't regret the purchase at all though.

Nothing to do with multiplayer maps, but playing this alongside Halo 3 is actually making me all the more excited for ODST. Halo skirmishes with sort of human characters, I have high hopes for that.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on February 28, 2009, 11:01:52 PM
Are you going to get the new maps?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on February 28, 2009, 11:27:56 PM
The Halo maps? I doubt it, I haven't even played the existing maps much. Halo is an SP or local co-op thing for me.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 12:13:38 AM
grenades bouncing off of your teammates is so fucking annoying.  I called someone on my team a big stupid cunt for blocking my grenade and causing me to suicide.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 01, 2009, 12:31:48 AM
I beat it on Veteran. I'd give it a 7/10. Ok effort.

Check my trophies if you don't believe me

I'm playing through on Veteran and I don't see any trophies specific to Veteran unless they are secret.

Oh, and speaking of controller lag, here is proof why Guerilla sucks and they made K2 much worse than it should be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yFa_EZORYo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yFa_EZORYo)

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 12:33:34 AM
I don't have a problem with it. I guess you're just weak.  :gloomy

grenades bouncing off of your teammates is so fucking annoying.  I called someone on my team a big stupid cunt for blocking my grenade and causing me to suicide.

I stopped using grenades on MP after only a few games of the MP, mostly because team mates kept running right in where I had just thrown the grenade.  >:(
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 12:38:54 AM
the controls in multiplayer sorta clicked in the last few matches.  Turning down vertical sensitivity helped a bunch, and normally I hate uneven axis on the right stick.

Are you going to get the new maps?

I actually really want to play them, the sandbox one in particular.  It was part of the reason I was getting Halo Wars, but since deciding to pass on it, I'll wait and see if I pick the map pack up.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Van Cruncheon on March 01, 2009, 12:59:21 AM
think i'm used-ish to the controls now in single-player, but yeah, they still kinda suck in that dual shock 2 way. animation and special effects in this game are FUCKING NUTS, like cod4 cranked up on meth. since i don't give a shit about story/character, especially in my murder sims, the sucking there is a total non-issue. my only real complaint with the visuals are the lo-fi shadows and the ugly-ass ui and hud. overall, it's a gorgeous game (although anyone who even SUGGESTS this compares to crysis graphically needs to the stronger ether -- it's totally on par with gow2). other than that, like any decent fps, it makes killing things and blowing shit up nice and visceral. the sp enemy ai is great -- it's definitely more scripted than completely deterministic, like a lithtech game instead of halo -- but i kinda prefer that. your squad behaviors are really really really well-done -- never hafta run around searching for them, and they're never in a stupid position, so far. still don't like the helghast desgns. turrets and emplacements are fun. 7/10.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: patrickula on March 01, 2009, 12:59:58 AM
I beat it on Veteran. I'd give it a 7/10. Ok effort.

Check my trophies if you don't believe me

I'm playing through on Veteran and I don't see any trophies specific to Veteran unless they are secret.

Oh, and speaking of controller lag, here is proof why Guerilla sucks and they made K2 much worse than it should be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yFa_EZORYo[/url
 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yFa_EZORYo)
I knew they were fucked up  :lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on March 01, 2009, 01:11:29 AM

Oh, and speaking of controller lag, here is proof why Guerilla sucks and they made K2 much worse than it should be:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yFa_EZORYo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5yFa_EZORYo)



it's sad that guerrilla won't fix this shit. game could've been epic
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 01:12:30 AM
Alright, this mission after Visari Square is hot. Standard scenario, but the visuals and the atmosphere they have created add more to this level than either of the previous two, and the first section reminded me of the Luger paths in KZ1, one of the few things enjoyable about that game. That, and the flamethrower is just plain vicious. The low pressure napalm beam makes a lot of sense in the context of how firefights play out here, but it would be nice with a secondary fire room clearing burst option. Oh well, can't have it all.

And with the shotgun comes crunchy headsplats. Not of the Gears sort, but it has a nice splat to it.

it's sad that guerrilla won't fix this shit. game could've been epic

Guerrilla doesn't pander to whiny weaklings, good for them. The game controls awesome, get used to it or chicken out.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 01:21:50 AM
I actually really want to play them, the sandbox one in particular.  It was part of the reason I was getting Halo Wars, but since deciding to pass on it, I'll wait and see if I pick the map pack up.

Do you guys still play Halo 3 regularly? I should probably give it another shot, maybe the MP will click one of these days.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 01:29:48 AM
I actually really want to play them, the sandbox one in particular.  It was part of the reason I was getting Halo Wars, but since deciding to pass on it, I'll wait and see if I pick the map pack up.

Do you guys still play Halo 3 regularly? I should probably give it another shot, maybe the MP will click one of these days.

I don't really play regularly, usually I just get into at random times and play for a week or two.  The new maps look really cool though because they seem to be all about building crazy levels to play in.  Still not a level creator, but the closest it's come to with Halo 3.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 01:50:25 AM
Alright, MP makes sense again. The ISA AR is pretty crazy, as long as you stick with short controlled bursts. And I don't think these objectives work very well in 32 player matches. Well, assassination worked real well for the opposing team, what with our target trying to hide out near the enemy base.  >:(
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on March 01, 2009, 02:08:02 AM
Brought this over to a friend's house and three of us sat down to play campaign.  I wasn't the only one having issues with the sensitivity; still looking for a good setting.  I have never had this problem before, BTW.

I actually really want to play them, the sandbox one in particular.  It was part of the reason I was getting Halo Wars, but since deciding to pass on it, I'll wait and see if I pick the map pack up.

Do you guys still play Halo 3 regularly? I should probably give it another shot, maybe the MP will click one of these days.

Halo multiplayer is the only console multiplayer FPS I can really get into.  Still enjoy playing it, although haven't been on much lately because of SF4.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: BobFromPikeCreek on March 01, 2009, 03:27:21 AM
I got to play some of this tonight. Game looks really nice and is very polished. The only problem is I couldn't aim for shit in that game. The controls feel really awkward, but maybe it's just something you need to get used to.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 03:32:20 AM
Halo multiplayer is the only console multiplayer FPS I can really get into.  Still enjoy playing it, although haven't been on much lately because of SF4.

yeah, it's fun stuff.  I admit that I'm shocked, and pretty pissed off, that they never had a PC version announced after all this time.  I would rebuy it to play with keyboard and mouse.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 03:53:52 AM
I got to play some of this tonight. Game looks really nice and is very polished. The only problem is I couldn't aim for shit in that game. The controls feel really awkward, but maybe it's just something you need to get used to.

Pretty much. It's different, so there is definitely some adjustment needed.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on March 01, 2009, 05:21:01 AM
yo add me on psn please! amazon sent out my copy friday so i should have it a few days

psn id - xeroxinlola

don't make me beg for folks to play with on gaf :|

as for the controls i think i've settled on alt 1. it seems to work well enough for me
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 01, 2009, 09:07:27 AM
I cannot fathom anyone trying to argue down that youtube video
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: The Fake Shemp on March 01, 2009, 10:12:14 AM
Meh.  B game touted as AAA.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 11:12:11 AM
okay, this is getting really fucking boring.

i seem to be going from one choke point ambush/hold to the next and right now the only thing that's seperating this from a COD game is that the enemies only respawn to finite numbers.

This better pick up fast, because as beautiful as the game is, i'm starting to get reaaaally impatient with it.



which part are you at? the only two times I felt that way were the train and final area.  The final area of the game is the worst and it's overall the worst part of the game, but right before it, it is actually pretty great with the exception of the brief AA part.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 01, 2009, 11:40:52 AM
Guerrilla doesn't pander to whiny weaklings, good for them. The game controls awesome, get used to it or chicken out.

You're such an idiot sometimes.  It's a good game, but there is no way in hell that it controls "awesome," especially with the terrible input lag that's not present in any other PS3 shooters.

I cannot fathom anyone trying to argue down that youtube video

That's AA's specialty, arguing against facts.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 11:49:33 AM
Guerrilla doesn't pander to whiny weaklings, good for them. The game controls awesome, get used to it or chicken out.

You're such an idiot sometimes.  It's a good game, but there is no way in hell that it controls "awesome," especially with the terrible input lag that's not present in any other PS3 shooters.

You can adapt to it, or you can whine about it like some little bitch, which seems to be awfully trendy around here. Get used to it or pussy out.

okay, this is getting really fucking boring.

i seem to be going from one choke point ambush/hold to the next and right now the only thing that's seperating this from a COD game is that the enemies only respawn to finite numbers.

The Visari Square sequence was a bit much, although it was more frustrating and tiring than boring. Not seeing COD in this, especially given that you can't just bum rush your way through to the next check point, and the fact that the Helghast behave nothing like the kamikaze RAGE enemies in COD.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 01, 2009, 11:52:58 AM
Eh, I'm starting to get tired of the multiplayer already.  I've put in about an hour and a half and I only have 110 points.  I'll probably have to play around another hour just to unlock the shotgun.  God knows how long for the different classes and sniper.

It doesn't help that I'm being stuck in that massive and open desert map, which is probably the worst multiplayer map I've played in recent history.  Maybe it gets better when you get the sniper rifle and you don't have to shoot the enemies (which are never in medium range) with your pea shooter rifle.  (oh wait, I'm going to have to play my ass off to unlock that.)

I'll play some more today, but so far the MP is just really unsatisfying. :/
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 11:56:22 AM
Eh, I'm starting to get tired of the multiplayer already.  I've put in about an hour and a half and I only have 110 points.  I'll probably have to play around another hour just to unlock the shotgun.  God knows how long for the different classes and sniper.

It doesn't help that I'm being stuck in that massive and open desert map, which is probably the worst multiplayer map I've played in recent history.  Maybe it gets better when you get the sniper rifle and you don't have to shoot the enemies (which are never in medium range) with your pea shooter rifle.  (oh wait, I'm going to have to play my ass off to unlock that.)

I'll play some more today, but so far the MP is just really unsatisfying. :/

The standard ISA rifle is actually pretty good for medium-long range combat. Crouch and use controlled bursts only. I picked off enemies that were nearly all the way across that map last night. Not that it helped my score very much, since I jumped in right as Body Count was ending.

And you do now that you can filter your search by maps, right?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 01, 2009, 12:06:36 PM
Eh, I'm starting to get tired of the multiplayer already.  I've put in about an hour and a half and I only have 110 points.  I'll probably have to play around another hour just to unlock the shotgun.  God knows how long for the different classes and sniper.

It doesn't help that I'm being stuck in that massive and open desert map, which is probably the worst multiplayer map I've played in recent history.  Maybe it gets better when you get the sniper rifle and you don't have to shoot the enemies (which are never in medium range) with your pea shooter rifle.  (oh wait, I'm going to have to play my ass off to unlock that.)

I'll play some more today, but so far the MP is just really unsatisfying. :/

The standard ISA rifle is actually pretty good for medium-long range combat. Crouch and use controlled bursts only. I picked off enemies that were nearly all the way across that map last night. Not that it helped my score very much, since I jumped in right as Body Count was ending.

And you do now that you can filter your search by maps, right?

Yeah, I fire off short burst and they work most of the time.  Just not in that desert map (which I understand because of the "realism," but then enemies are killing me across the map with their rifles...?) 

And I know I can filter, I just haven't been because I want to check out all the maps.  And from what I've played so far they're really good; just not that desert map.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 12:37:30 PM
Yeah, I fire off short burst and they work most of the time.  Just not in that desert map (which I understand because of the "realism," but then enemies are killing me across the map with their rifles...?) 

And I know I can filter, I just haven't been because I want to check out all the maps.  And from what I've played so far they're really good; just not that desert map.

Did you play as Helghast or ISA? They really need to tone down the lights of both sides, but the red helghast lanterns can be spotted anywhere.


As much as I didn't like Halo 3, playing it on Legendary was amazing. The things the AI would do would always impress me. Throwing down a shield grenade to advance to a new cover point, flushing me out with a grenade only to flank me on the other side. It was always a challenge.

The AI here is better than COD4 which is a monster closet, but much much worse than Halo 3s.

I don't know about Legendary, but I'm playing through Halo 3 on Heroic right now and the brute A.I. doesn't strike me as doing anything particularly interesting. Specifically, the brutes seem to be downright distinguished mentally-challenged and almost completely unresponsive to my medium-long range attacks, which is made all the more obvious by the sheer size of these barely moving targets. Yeah, they throw down bubble shields, but then they also stand right in the middle of the shield until it expires, so all I have to do is wait for it to deactivate before picking off the target. The spice of almost all encounters comes courtesy of the combination of jackals and grunts, which is fun but a bit weird. Maybe my memory of Halo A.I. is a bit rosy, but I really miss fighting elites.

As for KZ2, there was one scene where I managed to really exploit a scripted entry, and that cheapened the experience a lot. Felt a bit like Rainbow Six Vegas at its worst, and I wasn't really expecting that. Of course, right after that I was successfully flanked, so hey.


On another Halo note, I think one thing that really separates Halo from KZ2 (and most other shooters) is the grunt variety. They don't seem to be very popular, but I always felt that the grunts added a lot to Halo. Personality, I guess, and while they're never difficult to kill, they are always fun to hunt.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 01, 2009, 05:44:56 PM
Quote from: duckman2000
Did you play as Helghast or ISA? They really need to tone down the lights of both sides, but the red helghast lanterns can be spotted anywhere.
Helghast.  I don't think visibility was the problem, I could see whatever blue isa dudes across the map.


I also unlocked the SMG today and got 75 points in a match with it.  That thing is spectacular.

Surprisingly the shotgun is really terrible.  It's satisfying when you kill someone, but if you miss a shot in face-to-face combat you're basically screwed.  I'll play around with it some more, but meh.

<3 the SMG, though.  Seems like the worst weapons in SP are the best in MP.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 08:58:06 PM
Quote
The Visari Square sequence was a bit much, although it was more frustrating and tiring than boring.

yeah, the square was the start , but it was mainly the part after this. It just seemed to be several linked "man the turret" areas.

I think i just need to break up the play and go throught it bit by bit.

That's my strategy right now, to avoid shooter fatigue. I loved the section after Visari Square, though, as it brought back the intimate combat for a bit (and introducing some new weapons), although I would have liked the first infiltration section to have been about 4 times as long.

Not a big fan of turrets in any game unless I can call in an airstrike, and KZ2 is no exception. It's just time consuming and grating.

I also unlocked the SMG today and got 75 points in a match with it.  That thing is spectacular.

Surprisingly the shotgun is really terrible.  It's satisfying when you kill someone, but if you miss a shot in face-to-face combat you're basically screwed.  I'll play around with it some more, but meh.

<3 the SMG, though.  Seems like the worst weapons in SP are the best in MP.

I really like the SMG in SP, but it has limited usage. Trying to pick off enemies at medium distance with an SMG is an exercise in futility.

Can you decapitate people with the shotgun in MP?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 09:06:54 PM
wtf? apparently there is crouch toggle in multiplayer but not single player.

and I unlocked engineer class, which kinda sucks; only choice of a shotgun and building shitty turrets.  I want the repair ability, but to get that you need to kill 5 people with your turrets, and that's something you can't control.

the worst is that I still haven't unlocked the med pack to use with other classes, so for the next 8 rounds I need to switch between medic and engineer just to make sure I heal 5 people and kill 5 people.  Then I need to repeat this with every other class.....ugh I hate crap like this.  I'm enjoying the multiplayer a lot despite all this bitching.

And I saw a saboteur today and they really seem cheap.  There was no indicator to tell if they were a spy or not, and to make it worse they have a shotgun, so you're dead before you realize it. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 09:14:14 PM
And I saw a saboteur today and they really seem cheap.  There was no indicator to tell if they were a spy or not, and to make it worse they have a shotgun, so you're dead before you realize it. 

Well, there is some indication, as your crosshair will turn red when a Saboteur is in your sight. I wasn't aware that they had shotguns, though, I think they had SMGs in the beta.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 09:17:39 PM
yeah, I heard about the scroll over thing on gaf.  It's pretty annoying still considering I usually ignore teammates who are on the sides of my screen.

and at least from what I can tell they have shotguns.  One guy had a shotgun every time I encountered him, and I did kill him once; maybe he was lucky and found it on the ground several times.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 01, 2009, 09:45:49 PM
Quote from: duckman2000
Can you decapitate people with the shotgun in MP?

I don't believe so, no.  You can blow off helmets and hats though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 01, 2009, 10:11:43 PM
I got 30 points even though I think my team lost the match, so maybe it won't be so bad unlocking shit. I should have all the classes within 100 matches.

Unlocking the side abilities looks like a nightmare though, that's going to affect gameplay even more than multiplayer achievements. Especially since they're apparently really hard to do. They should have given an easier alternative way to unlock.


By the way melee combat in this game is a joke

And where the hell are onlin eparties like Halo 2 and Resistance 2

And yes it is startlingly easy to find the enemy closet spawns and mow guys down before their AI is turned on
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 10:30:33 PM
I don't mind lack of parties because there are server rooms.

Melee combat is trash in multiplayer; it requires 2 consecutive hits to kill the enemy with a single doing practically no damage.  It doesn't help that the range is incredible short and there is no lunge to it like CoD4 / Halo have.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 01, 2009, 10:34:42 PM
R2 had server rooms and parties.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on March 01, 2009, 10:51:32 PM
You can too decapitate people with the shotgun. It's ridiculously awesome!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 01, 2009, 10:51:53 PM
true (I think)

I only played, like, 3 or 4 matches online R2.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 01, 2009, 11:15:49 PM
And yes it is startlingly easy to find the enemy closet spawns and mow guys down before their AI is turned on

I've only "managed" to do it once, and it seems like the A.I. caught on after I killed the second one, as the third guy took another path (and a 4th one flanked me). Well, I've identified several spawn points, but I've gotten my ass handed to me every time I've tried to deal with them fast.

By the way melee combat in this game is a joke

I'm mostly disappointed in the knife. Killzone had arguably the most wicked knife kills around, and now they went for the typical swat and slash. Meh. Where's my thud-gurgle?  :gloomy
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 01, 2009, 11:57:48 PM
I don't even know what I'm doing with the Dpad when it starts switching grenades and to the knife and shit
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 02, 2009, 12:03:02 AM
having grenade on the d-pad confuses me since it doesn't really make sense.  There is a dedicated grenade button on R2, so why bother putting as down on the d-pad? I know there is a second grenade type you get really late into the game, but it isn't like down on the d-pad becomes 'switch grenade type', this new grenade just takes up left on the d-pad.  Makes no sense.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 02, 2009, 12:20:45 AM
God damn it, now I want a Shadow Marshal expansion. They should be able to craft one hell of a snazzy looking 'death in the shadows' game with this tech and these designs, and Luger was a genuinely awesome character. But I'm sure that if they make an expansion, it will be the opposite of a shadow marshal game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 02, 2009, 03:31:30 AM
:bow Bridge :bow2

:piss ATAC :piss2

Actually, everything after Visari Square has been top notch (the firefight in the shanty town was hot), but Radec Academy has been a letdown. Maybe I'll play some Far Cry 2 to unwind a bit.

edit: :duh  I never noticed the tunnel (re: ATAC)
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 02, 2009, 08:05:46 AM
:bow Bridge :bow2

:piss ATAC :piss2

Actually, everything after Visari Square has been top notch (the firefight in the shanty town was hot), but Radec Academy has been a letdown. Maybe I'll play some Far Cry 2 to unwind a bit.

edit: :duh  I never noticed the tunnel (re: ATAC)
Yep.  Up until Visari Square I was not really feeling the game, but it really comes into its own afterwards.  There are some great levels in there.  Also, the AI begins to impress.  The final mission has some really impressive AI moments that will both entertain and frustrate you.  I'm surprised that people are down on the AI, though, as even early on, it's generally very solid.  It's certainly better than the AI in most other shooters (outside of Halo 3, which is still really good, but I think the two are comparable). 

Quote
So on a serious level, is there anything to do other then kill kill kill?
I don't see what's wrong with that.  We have so many games these days trying to throw in every genre and doing them poorly.  Gears 2 suffered from this.  When you replay the game, it's the core combat that is most enjoyable.  That's not to say that I disliked all of that stuff, but it's nice to play a shooter again that focuses entirely on combat.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 02, 2009, 08:47:48 AM
So on a serious level, is there anything to do other then kill kill kill? Like any rescue missions, or defending type stuff? Maybe even a "Go fix that tank" objective?

By the way, while we're talking about the Shadow Marshal, one thing I did enjoy about killzone was the somewhat classed based campaign. I always picked Rico though, even though he was such an asshole.

You killkillkill to plant bombs on stuff using the Sixaxis

Quote
I don't see what's wrong with that.  We have so many games these days trying to throw in every genre and doing them poorly.  Gears 2 suffered from this.  When you replay the game, it's the core combat that is most enjoyable.  That's not to say that I disliked all of that stuff, but it's nice to play a shooter again that focuses entirely on combat.
   

Yea, but sometimes you want some mashed potatoes with your steak
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 02, 2009, 09:10:41 AM
Quote
Yea, but sometimes you want some mashed potatoes with your steak
I'm curious to hear what else you'd like to see in the game.

A lot of shooters in 2008 were hurt by the fact that the developers were so obsessed with including segments that completely move away from the core gameplay.  Gears 2 lost a lot of steam in the end, for instance, due to the sudden shift away from the gameplay the series was built upon.  A rail shooting segment, riding around on a Brumak, and firing a laser at a terrible final boss?  The final level was nearly ruined by this.

Metal Gear Solid 4 is an even better example.  The core gameplay was fantastic, but after the first couple of chapters, they insisted on mixing things up to the point that you rarely get the chance to return to what was so great about those first chapters.  They felt the need to constantly throw the player into completely different bits that were nowhere near as good.

I'm glad to have a shooter that focuses entirely on the core shooting and doesn't feel the need to completely change the primary foe around halfway through the game.  It's a breath of fresh air in this day and age.  I don't mind when a few games pull that trick on the player, but it's become far too common these days.  It seems to me that, more often than not, the message board majority ends up complaining about such things anyways.  Everyone bitched about the flood levels in Halo 3 and the carbon machines in Crysis, for instance.  It's not as if Killzone 2 presents the same scenarios over and over again.  The final 1/3 of the game is very intense and really kicks up the quality of the encounters (while also tossing in a solid mech sequence).

Again, I don't think KZ2 is "the best ever" or anything, but I think it's a high quality game worthy of praise.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: The Fake Shemp on March 02, 2009, 09:14:49 AM
Gears of War 2 > Killzone 2
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 02, 2009, 09:21:00 AM
So on a serious level, is there anything to do other then kill kill kill? Like any rescue missions, or defending type stuff? Maybe even a "Go fix that tank" objective?

By the way, while we're talking about the Shadow Marshal, one thing I did enjoy about killzone was the somewhat classed based campaign. I always picked Rico though, even though he was such an asshole.

well, everything revolves around killing in different situations.  There is a situation where you need to defend, there is a mission where you need to rescue others, and there are missions where you are invading an enemy base.  You won't get a stealth mission or anything like that, and there really is only one mission that isn't right into a firefight (except the vehicle sequences.)  I can understand why some people would have a problem with it; I like it in KZ2 and FEAR 2, but didn't like it much in Gears 1 (I like Gears 2 much more.)

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 02, 2009, 10:20:13 AM
Gears of War 2 > Killzone 2

I agree.  Doesn't mean Killzone 2 is not excellent, however.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 02, 2009, 11:55:51 AM
I'm surprised that people are down on the AI, though, as even early on, it's generally very solid.  It's certainly better than the AI in most other shooters (outside of Halo 3, which is still really good, but I think the two are comparable). 

The Helghast is some of the best opposition I've come across in a game. I don't know if "smart" is a good term to use, but they are certainly very adaptive and capable at both offense and defense, which makes for a real challenge and good shooter entertainment. The only problem, if you want to search for one, would be that the behavior has been sort of flat across the board. A game like Halo will throw a few different types of behavior at you in any one battle, so it keeps the skirmishes varied. But then that's the exception, with most games sticking to a single enemy type with varying degrees of firepower and some variation in aggression.

All of that said, I really hate it when they resort to the  scary helghast behind the door that is about to open shit. It's only happened twice, but it's cheap, and completely out of place in the game. As is using a flak cannon to take down incoming Helghast, but I guess that's a direct throwback to the first game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 02, 2009, 01:14:52 PM
The lack of enemy variety (in looks and behaviors) is another issue that I would raise.  It's especially apparent after playing a bunch of Horde last night in Gears 2, a game that throws about a dozen completely different types of enemies at you.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 02, 2009, 01:20:06 PM
The lack of enemy variety (in looks and behaviors) is another issue that I would raise.  It's especially apparent after playing a bunch of Horde last night in Gears 2, a game that throws about a dozen completely different types of enemies at you.
Yeah, I totally agree with that.  I can't think of another game that does it as well as Gears, however.  Halo has good enemy variety, but Gears 2 is the best in that regard.  It's actually a HUGE step up from the original Gears as well (which doesn't have much variety).  Killzone 2 has more in common with stuff like Crysis, Call of Duty, and other military-ish shooters.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 02, 2009, 01:24:27 PM
The lack of enemy variety (in looks and behaviors) is another issue that I would raise.  It's especially apparent after playing a bunch of Horde last night in Gears 2, a game that throws about a dozen completely different types of enemies at you.

Well, you can't really just add monsters to the mix. You're fighting against a type of human, with the strengths and limitations that comes with that. The times it has thrown in "special" enemies (other than the grenade and rocket dudes) has made for some of the least interesting parts so far. It works in Gears because, well, it's a game about monsters.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 02, 2009, 01:29:29 PM
Well, you can't really just add monsters to the mix. You're fighting against a type of human, with the strengths and limitations that comes with that. The times it has thrown in "special" enemies (other than the grenade and rocket dudes) has made for some of the least interesting parts so far. It works in Gears because, well, it's a game about monsters.

They all don't have to act and look the same like they came off a Helghast assembly line.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 02, 2009, 01:41:55 PM
Quote
Yea, but sometimes you want some mashed potatoes with your steak
I'm curious to hear what else you'd like to see in the game.

A lot of shooters in 2008 were hurt by the fact that the developers were so obsessed with including segments that completely move away from the core gameplay.  Gears 2 lost a lot of steam in the end, for instance, due to the sudden shift away from the gameplay the series was built upon.  A rail shooting segment, riding around on a Brumak, and firing a laser at a terrible final boss?  The final level was nearly ruined by this.

Metal Gear Solid 4 is an even better example.  The core gameplay was fantastic, but after the first couple of chapters, they insisted on mixing things up to the point that you rarely get the chance to return to what was so great about those first chapters.  They felt the need to constantly throw the player into completely different bits that were nowhere near as good.

I'm glad to have a shooter that focuses entirely on the core shooting and doesn't feel the need to completely change the primary foe around halfway through the game.  It's a breath of fresh air in this day and age.  I don't mind when a few games pull that trick on the player, but it's become far too common these days.  It seems to me that, more often than not, the message board majority ends up complaining about such things anyways.  Everyone bitched about the flood levels in Halo 3 and the carbon machines in Crysis, for instance.  It's not as if Killzone 2 presents the same scenarios over and over again.  The final 1/3 of the game is very intense and really kicks up the quality of the encounters (while also tossing in a solid mech sequence).

Again, I don't think KZ2 is "the best ever" or anything, but I think it's a high quality game worthy of praise.

You don't need to include weird bonus areas like Gears 2 (which has a better campaign than KZ2 anyway) in order to spice things up. You could be like Halo and allow every encounter to be different, or you can be like CoD4 and constantly push the player forward into completely new scenarios with new environments and characters so that it always feels fresh.

KZ2 is at its best when you run into a new area. Those parts are great. But you spend WAY too much time in each area, and the tasks are too similar. How many times am I going to stand at the bottom of a basin and shoot up at enemies who are peeking over ledges at me? How many times will I take a position from waves of enemies, then immediately defend it from waves of enemies?

I guess with uber graphics come smaller, more reused areas. Not worth the tradeoff IMO, I like variety. When you play Gears 2 you might as well be visiting 6 or 7 different planets, and they introduce new shit left and right like the rain or the snake or the giant enemies.

You are right about the last third of the game being much better about pushing you forward. But I have no idea how the mech sequence is any different from the side tasks in Gears 2.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 02, 2009, 01:42:07 PM
Alright, so how do you suppose it should be? Unless you're going to retool the whole thing from a military theme (and in that sub-section, the combat behavior of the basic Helghan grunt is well above the norm) into a freewheeling monster shooter, how exactly would they achieve a variety of the Gears sort?

Besides, considering how meh the Heavy is and how bloody difficult the ATAC was, I'm sure any monster game attempt on their part would just land us with something along the lines of fucking wretches, or those tickers.

Quote from: AdmiralViscen
I guess with uber graphics come smaller, more reused areas. Not worth the tradeoff IMO, I like variety. When you play Gears 2 you might as well be visiting 6 or 7 different planets, and they introduce new shit left and right like the rain or the snake or the giant enemies.

This might just be a matter of personal taste, though, as I preferred Gears 1 to Gears 2 because it was more focused on section to section combat interspersed with great (theron guards) and shit (wretches) special encounters.

I see this as more of a Ghost Recon Lone Wolf ISA Warfighter, or a Rainbow Six Helghan: The Action Movie. You really have to want a pure shooter experience. And COD4 SP doesn't have shit on this, variety be damned. Although I could definitely go for a mountainside battle right around now.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 02, 2009, 01:50:43 PM
Alright, so how do you suppose it should be? Unless you're going to retool the whole thing from a military theme (and in that sub-section, the combat behavior of the basic Helghan grunt is well above the norm) into a freewheeling monster shooter, how exactly would they achieve a variety of the Gears sort?

Besides, considering how meh the Heavy is and how bloody difficult the ATAC was, I'm sure any monster game attempt on their part would just land us with something along the lines of fucking wretches, or those tickers.

Quote from: AdmiralViscen
I guess with uber graphics come smaller, more reused areas. Not worth the tradeoff IMO, I like variety. When you play Gears 2 you might as well be visiting 6 or 7 different planets, and they introduce new shit left and right like the rain or the snake or the giant enemies.

This might just be a matter of personal taste, though, as I preferred Gears 1 to Gears 2 because it was more focused on section to section combat interspersed with great (theron guards) and shit (wretches) special encounters.

I see this as more of a Ghost Recon Lone Wolf ISA Warfighter, or a Rainbow Six Helghan: The Action Movie. And COD4 SP doesn't have shit on this, variety be damned. Although I could definitely go for a mountainside battle right around now.

Well they had no problem adding those Big Daddy knockoffs you have to shoot in the ass. Why not give us more versions of them, and let us fight the mech that we find laying around in the campaign? Throw in some more of those flying drone guys?


Campaigns:

Halo 3 > Gears 2 > Gears 1 > Killzone 2 > COD4
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 02, 2009, 01:54:13 PM
Well they had no problem adding those Big Daddy knockoffs you have to shoot in the ass. Why not give us more versions of them, and let us fight the mech that we find laying around in the campaign? Throw in some more of those flying drone guys?

See, I disliked both the heavy and the ATAC (I assume that's the flying drone). I thought the heavy was their attempt at adding a mini-boss, and it was just aggressively meh. I don't know, it was just too easy, and the whole thing with "shoot at the weak spot" is so damned out of place in a game that prides itself on being punishing and having resourceful, adaptive enemies. Why in the hell is there even a weak spot? You're not supposed to ask questions like that when you're playing a game, but it doesn't mesh with the other content of this game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 02, 2009, 02:09:21 PM
I liked the heavy the first and second times.  First time because it was an interesting encounter; second time because it was against two heavies, but you had a turret that fucks them up in 2 seconds.  The other times were pretty lame.  And the ATAC was really, really annoying.

If I had to list them based on single player campaigns (still need to try Halo 3 4 player co-op one time) based on the games admiralviscen listed.

Halo 3 ≥ Killzone 2 = Gears 2 > Gears 1 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> COD4

when Halo 3 was great, it was really fucking great; when it sucked, I think it was worse than the bad parts of Gears 2 and Killzone 2.  Nothing in Killzone 2 or Gears 2 tops defeating two scarabs by landing a VTOL on them, killing the enemies on there, blowing it up and busting out of there.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 02, 2009, 02:17:54 PM
Yea I should have put >>>>>>>> before COD4, but then I felt compelled to do the same for the other entries and said fuck it

Well they had no problem adding those Big Daddy knockoffs you have to shoot in the ass. Why not give us more versions of them, and let us fight the mech that we find laying around in the campaign? Throw in some more of those flying drone guys?

See, I disliked both the heavy and the ATAC (I assume that's the flying drone). I thought the heavy was their attempt at adding a mini-boss, and it was just aggressively meh. I don't know, it was just too easy, and the whole thing with "shoot at the weak spot" is so damned out of place in a game that prides itself on being punishing and having resourceful, adaptive enemies. Why in the hell is there even a weak spot? You're not supposed to ask questions like that when you're playing a game, but it doesn't mesh with the other content of this game.


ATAC is the helicopter boss, I was talking about the flying guys.

And yes, all of these enemies should be made more interesting, that is a given and part of the reason that KZ2's campaign was not A+ for me. Solid B
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 02, 2009, 02:41:14 PM
I'm sort of starting to hope that the talk about a possible downloadable co-op component wasn't just a load. It's not that it needs it and I don't think all sections would make for good co-op sections, but a section like the bridge, that would have been awesome. Maybe the GRAW approach would be a good compromise.

Hey Swaggaz, you should fire up Far Cry 2 for kicks. Playing FC2 after Killzone 2 really made me appreciate things about both games.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: TEEEPO on March 02, 2009, 03:00:42 PM
kz2 > halo3=res1 > gears2 >>>>>>> cod4 > gears >>>>>>>> res2

i have never encountered a more adaptive and capable enemy then the helghast, making it killzone2's greatest achievement. i do agree that it would've been nice if there was more variety throughout the campaign and more unique scenarios scattered throughout the game, but it's the combination of the physicality of the movement as well as the a.i that imo, kept me from getting shooter fatigue that every game on the list has plagued me with. the thought and action required made every kill a reward.

not to mention the veteran campaign was balanced to near perfection <3333




Title: Re: kz2
Post by: TEEEPO on March 02, 2009, 03:01:37 PM
wtf!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: TEEEPO on March 02, 2009, 03:06:26 PM
I'm sort of starting to hope that the talk about a possible downloadable co-op component wasn't just a load. It's not that it needs it and I don't think all sections would make for good co-op sections, but a section like the bridge, that would have been awesome. Maybe the GRAW approach would be a good compromise.

after playing the game, i could see possibly why co-op wouldn't work. while the a.i is smart, it isn't as incredibly alert to its surroundings as other games are. in other words, when sneaking around the corner, a helghast soldier wont be standing up against the wall with his gun already pointing at you. it would be too easy to have one player distract them while the other flanks. routine is never fun =/
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 02, 2009, 04:08:59 PM
I'm sort of starting to hope that the talk about a possible downloadable co-op component wasn't just a load. It's not that it needs it and I don't think all sections would make for good co-op sections, but a section like the bridge, that would have been awesome. Maybe the GRAW approach would be a good compromise.

after playing the game, i could see possibly why co-op wouldn't work. while the a.i is smart, it isn't as incredibly alert to its surroundings as other games are. in other words, when sneaking around the corner, a helghast soldier wont be standing up against the wall with his gun already pointing at you. it would be too easy to have one player distract them while the other flanks. routine is never fun =/
I could see this problem cropping up, but I would still love to see them tackle this.  CO-OP is the one thing Killzone 2 is lacking that I really want more of.  I would also like to see more shooters focusing on "horde-like" modes for online play.  I HATE the standard online multiplayer in Gears, but I LOVE horde mode.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 02, 2009, 04:12:35 PM
I'm sort of starting to hope that the talk about a possible downloadable co-op component wasn't just a load. It's not that it needs it and I don't think all sections would make for good co-op sections, but a section like the bridge, that would have been awesome. Maybe the GRAW approach would be a good compromise.

Hey Swaggaz, you should fire up Far Cry 2 for kicks. Playing FC2 after Killzone 2 really made me appreciate things about both games.

I was thinking about playing Crysis again since it will probably run better after the dozen or so upgrades to my video card since then.  It's a bit difficult ot just start up FC2 since it does take some time to get into again.

and yeah, a GRAW style of co-op would be interesting.  I don't know how much it would work since KZ2 isn't so much of an objective based game like GRAW was.  Something like Horde in single player levels could also be awesome and totally fit.  Going back to the whole thing about heavies being boring enemies, it could be a lot more cool with co-op by removing the head causing a stun so you actually need to work together and out flank him to properly take one down.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 02, 2009, 04:30:30 PM
I R Dragonslayer! Motherfucker was a push-over once I figured out that there was a tunnel underneath.

:bow Village level :bow2

:bow Bolt gun :bow2 (not particularly useful, but fun for a few rounds)

Man, I really hope we see some spin-offs from this game. Shadow Marshal expansion, Co-op "Recon" expansion, Suljeva Bug Safari; there is so much they could do with what they have created here.

Oh, and the dialog... you know, if they had simply combed through the script and replaced 75% of the instances of "fuck" with strong but varied terms, it really would have made all the difference in the world. The script itself isn't all that bad, but as someone who uses a lot of foul language in his daily speech, I still find the liberal usage of "fuck" to be completely out of place.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 02, 2009, 07:01:38 PM
i'm about to get killzoned
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 02, 2009, 07:18:34 PM
I think they really just needed to flesh out the sub-plot of Natiko and Garza's Mom
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 02, 2009, 07:43:13 PM
holy shit
this tank mission is fucking terrible. it's almost game ending level of bad.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 02, 2009, 07:47:41 PM
Multi gets better and better as you play. There are lot of growing pains.

I played two more matches and ranked up, I've got 62 total points after 3 matches and my team hasn't actually won one.


One thing that Halo does well is tell you EXACTLY what you're doing. I know what every medal is in Halo, but I have no kill what my killing specialist ribbons relate to. I also don't know what all those queer symbols mean when you're actually in a match. I figured out kills, deaths, and EXP, but there are 1 or 2 in the middle that are meaningless to me. Duckman? edit: actually, it explains the ribbons in the unlocks menu

Also why did it say in the postgame that I had 62 total EXP but in my personal rankings page it says I need 7 more EXP for corporal? Was I in an unranked match or something?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 02, 2009, 08:05:29 PM
it takes time to update
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 02, 2009, 08:14:41 PM
I'm talking about the in-game statistics, not the website. Or does even that need to update? :lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 02, 2009, 08:17:29 PM
yes

 >:(

it happened to me too
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 02, 2009, 08:18:52 PM
Fucking Sony

I just gave that last level another shot for some reason, holy fuck is it terrible. It boggles my mind. I hate leaving game unfinished either, it's really annoying.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: ManaByte on March 02, 2009, 11:59:40 PM
(http://burbia.com/files/images/saveme1a.individual.jpg)
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on March 03, 2009, 12:01:40 AM
http://burbia.com/files/images/saveme1a.individual.jpg

Wow. Is that a GAF member's window?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: ManaByte on March 03, 2009, 12:04:54 AM
http://burbia.com/files/images/saveme1a.individual.jpg

Wow. Is that a GAF member's window?

Meow?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tabasco on March 03, 2009, 01:50:12 AM
I think I'm giving up.  I played the first 2 levels, and I'm not having any fun.  I didn't want to be part of the bore hate parade, but I'd rather just replay a game I enjoy than continue fighting the controls.  If they wise up and patch them I will come back.

Comparing this shit to Halo or even Gears is unfair.  Maybe say things like "Guerrilla has really improved since Nam '67"!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 03, 2009, 02:24:50 AM
:bow Train :bow2

:piss Dumbasses blocking crucial entry-exit points in MP :piss2


I didn't want to be part of the bore hate parade, but I'd rather just replay a game I enjoy than continue fighting the controls.

Yet here you are. Bunch of conservatives and weaklings, pfft at the lot of you.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on March 03, 2009, 02:31:07 AM
The controls are laggy, there's no denying that. If you have any experience with video games at all you'll adapt to the lag. Hell, back when I played Unreal Tournament online on the Dreamcast with my 56K Dial-Up modem, I adapted to the horrible weapon fire lag. Adapting to Killzone 2's sluggish aiming was cake compared to that. If you think the controls suck, just know this. Everyone online is playing with the same exact controls as you are. It's a level playing field. Adapt or give up and cry like a little bitch, the choice is yours.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 03, 2009, 02:34:53 AM
One thing that is starting to get on my nerves is this shit with losing your weapons at the start of a new level. It's a genre standard, but it's an annoying one. The train one is the only one that has even made sense, since you could argue that jumping aboard moving trains with a heavy machine gun is less than practical, but it's still annoying. I want to keep that Helghast sidearm, damn it. I picked it up, and now I want to keep it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: The Sceneman on March 02, 2009, 06:45:40 PM
[youtube=560,345]foathMPLpqw&eurl=http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/[/youtube]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 02, 2009, 10:07:15 PM
holy shit
this tank mission is fucking terrible. it's almost game ending level of bad.
That was probably the worst part of the game.  The actual rush for the tank was solid, but once you got the tank, there was basically nowhere to go.  You just sat around and took out targets.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Brehvolution on March 02, 2009, 11:36:43 PM
[youtube=560,345]foathMPLpqw&eurl=http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/[/youtube]

:rofl

El Presador or whatever is a dumbass. But he is a funny dumbass.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on March 03, 2009, 10:27:37 AM
That shit is funny?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Brehvolution on March 03, 2009, 10:48:16 AM
To me, ya.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on March 03, 2009, 12:43:27 PM
[youtube=560,345]foathMPLpqw&eurl=http://www.ukresistance.co.uk/[/youtube]

Pretty awesome parody.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Brehvolution on March 03, 2009, 01:29:57 PM
That shit is funny?

I just imagine what it would look like if Brett Favre was a raging sfag.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 03, 2009, 02:20:00 PM
"You do not have the appropriate rank to join your friend's game"

What a great idea this rank-up thing was, absolutely brilliant.



And I have to use fucking AIM to coordinate with my friends because there is no way to communicate in PSN unless you are in the same match and Guerilla was too stupid to implement parties from Halo 2. And now I search games myself and it says no games found at all, this is an incredible experience and it is a ripoff to pay $3 a month for XBL.

Even if you manage to join the same match, there is no way to tell what team your friends are on so it is a crap shoot, and you can't talk unless you're in the same squad to boot. And apparently there is no way to see game details like forced teams before selecting a match, and I can't see a way to switch teams mid-game. This is a horrible experience for people with actual friends.

So I quit the match to rejoin and hopefully be on his team. Oops, if you quit and rejoin a match your stats are not counted according to this pop up. I can't wait to pick up Halo Wars and get my Halo 3 maps.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 03, 2009, 02:54:46 PM
I think they put everything into the clan system, more of a hardframed competitive thing. I don't care about that as long as people still work as a team, but I'm having a hard time getting into MP for precisely that reason. Latest problem: too many team mates blocking exits-entrances, which makes for some fucked up death alleys in other parts. It's only really a problem on a couple of maps, but those tend to also be very popular. I'm starting to think that people want uncontrolled mayhem, which would account for why Salamun market is such a good map, as the design allows for both playing styles to co-exist on one map.

I'm getting COD4 for the 360 tomorrow, so I'll probably bail on KZ2 online for a while. Still have some ways to go on campaign, and I just got to those drones you were talking about before.  :hyper
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 03, 2009, 03:15:13 PM
Can you do chat outside the game if you are in a clan?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 03, 2009, 03:37:39 PM
Dude 360 is a vulgar word in the filter, I can't name my clan "360 Chatterbox - Buy 360"
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 03, 2009, 03:54:40 PM
Can you do chat outside the game if you are in a clan?

No idea, the clan I'm in has all of three members right now, counting me.  :lol

Seems like you have J-Rzez on your side, though:

"I said it before, and I'll say it again because it's really pissing me off now. The lack of a party system with a quick match feature is flat out disgusting. If you can set up clan matches, why can't you have a party system? Fucking A GG, get this shit fixed and patched in ASAP, before it kills off some of the luster. I'm serious, this game is infuriating me that it's a trial to be able to play with 1 or more of your friends. And starting a room waiting for it to fill is bullshit because most times people will look over small rooms."

 I'm sure it would piss me off too if I was into the community aspect of things.


Dude 360 is a vulgar word in the filter, I can't name my clan "360 Chatterbox - Buy 360"

Seems more like a dork filter  :P
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 03, 2009, 07:05:59 PM
alright
this game is not fun
and it's all because the controls suck.


Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on March 03, 2009, 07:10:29 PM
Well, I do have to thank KZ2 for getting me back into Liberation. I just played a multiplayer match for the first time in ages, game is fucking awesome.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Third on March 03, 2009, 07:11:42 PM
I don't have any issues with the contols. I think they're fine..

Best looking game so far. The graphics are just insane. I think I'm only playing it for the graphics. Can't stand fps games (besides Half-life)
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 03, 2009, 09:33:10 PM
stupid fucking flying attack thing boss battle is FUCKING STUPID and terrible and I hate it. STRIKE TWO.


Why can't it be more like the mission on the bridge? That was good, I liked that. Not this bullshit shitty boss battle crap where the boss MOVES LIKE THE WIND and I have to try and keep up with my slow ass turning radius.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 03, 2009, 09:40:58 PM
That boss is unbearable  until you realize that you can drop off that ledge that you start out on and go into a little tunnel underneath you, that also has more rocket ammo. Youtube it.

There is no quick fix to the last encounter though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 03, 2009, 10:04:44 PM
stupid fucking flying attack thing boss battle is FUCKING STUPID and terrible and I hate it. STRIKE TWO.

Why can't it be more like the mission on the bridge? That was good, I liked that. Not this bullshit shitty boss battle crap where the boss MOVES LIKE THE WIND and I have to try and keep up with my slow ass turning radius.

Use the tunnel. I had some trouble with the thing until I realized there was a tunnel under the balcony. Shoot the electrical shit when the thing gets close, and then fire rockets at him when he's stunned. It's meh, but at least it's not meh and difficult. Took me just over a minute to beat him on Veteran after I figured out the tunnel thing.

On the upside, there's nothing of that sort for at least the next three levels, just awesome combat. There was even a nice breather stretch, which I hadn't actually expected.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 03, 2009, 10:26:46 PM
yeah i found the tunnel.
boss battle was still terrible.


finally got to the level i've wanted to see all along. the desert.
looks amazing.
i can actually see what's happening.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 01:45:33 AM
Man, the firefight at the end of Tharsis was pretty hot. Although that lightning rifle makes it almost too easy sometimes.

And as if to counter the awesomeness of the battle, Guerrilla just fucking eclipsed Gears 2 in terms of clumsily force-fitted, poorly advised emotional story telling cheese. I can not fucking wait until we get some hot military lone wolf shooter that doesn't force some dumbass squad on me.

And on that note, whoever it is at Guerrilla that insists on keeping this fucking Rico shithole around needs to have his teeth kicked real hard. He sucked in Killzone, and guess what, he still sucks. Fuck Rico.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 04, 2009, 02:42:56 AM
Man, the firefight at the end of Tharsis was pretty hot. Although that lightning rifle makes it almost too easy sometimes.

And as if to counter the awesomeness of the battle, Guerrilla just fucking eclipsed Gears 2 in terms of clumsily force-fitted, poorly advised emotional story telling cheese. I can not fucking wait until we get some hot military lone wolf shooter that doesn't force some dumbass squad on me.

And on that note, whoever it is at Guerrilla that insists on keeping this fucking Rico shithole around needs to have his teeth kicked real hard. He sucked in Killzone, and guess what, he still sucks. Fuck Rico.

I just finished that same part.  The story and characters are so bad that the scene was laughable.  At least with Dom, you have a sympathetic character and a lot of back story and build-up.  Here, he's just another one of the many of my squad members who have died throughout the game.  All I could thing is "why can't I just used my magic healing gun?!?"

And up until that point, the cutscenes were all pretty good.

One more observation - I am barely taller than your average desk, and I only come up to the squad chick's breasts, at most.  What in the world is wrong with Guerilla???
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 03:02:42 AM
Other than Marcus himself, the rest of the characters in Gears were mostly walking stereotypes with shitty lines, which was fine as long as that's all they were supposed to be. Emotional scenes with these man-rhinos could make an avid viewer of SciFi Channel originals cringe, and this scene was actually worse. It's obvious that they wanted it to be like Gears, but they fucked up on giving the characters much personality. Well, other than Rico, and his personality I can live without. The Helghast feel a lot more alive than my squad members, and that can't have been the intention.

On that note, I think the criticism of the voice acting has been largely unfair. The actual voice acting doesn't seem bad at all, it's the implementation and the writing that sucks. Maybe it's more natural in Dutch?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: BobFromPikeCreek on March 04, 2009, 03:07:46 AM
Got another chance to play again today. I'm trying really hard, but I just can't get used to the aiming. :'(
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 03:09:03 AM
Got another chance to play again today. I'm trying really hard, but I just can't get used to the aiming. :'(

Have you tried turning down the sensitivity?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: BobFromPikeCreek on March 04, 2009, 03:09:52 AM
I was fiddling with it but it was pissing my friend off so I couldn't do much.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 03:20:21 AM
Try that next time. Seems backwards, but it works for me. MP is different, though, so I sort of wish you could save the settings individually.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 11:32:40 AM
MP became a hell of a lot more rewarding after I got the Bodycount badge. And on that note, 16-24 player body count matches are pretty awesome, especially when there are sensible medics in the game. Still don't think I'm going to get very involved in it, but I can see myself unlocking some classes and keeping the game on the roster.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 04, 2009, 11:53:12 AM
yeah, I saw someone on gaf mention that you should just play bodycount after getting that badge to level up quickly and I felt stupid for not thinking about it sooner.  You essentially get double the xp for every kill.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 04, 2009, 12:03:34 PM
Wait what's that badge do and how do I get it?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 12:11:39 PM
I think you have to have 10% of the kills in a bodycount match x8. After you get it, you get an increase in points per kill.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 04, 2009, 12:13:31 PM
the best way to achieve that is to play in much smaller games.  I didn't mean to do that, but the first night it was a bunch of gaf games with 12 or so people total and I got that badge every time.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 04, 2009, 12:14:21 PM
Oh I already have 6-7 of those after 2 hours or so of play. I play in the midsize maps, I think they cap off at 16.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 12:15:09 PM
Smaller games is where it's at anyway. I'm finally enjoying the game, but that was only after filtering out the 32 player stuff. It works on some levels (like Pyrrhus Rise), but then those maps play just as well with only 16 players. I'm also playing mostly Body Count matches, because I'm sick of getting annoyed with my team mates treating objective based game types as deathmatch. And it's not team deathmatch either, or people would be less happy to throw grenades right where I just ran in.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 04, 2009, 12:17:16 PM
the weirdest thing about playing a smaller game is that people actually use squads in them.  In 32 player games, you would think that people would want to split up into smaller chunks to do objectives, but it's more crazy 'every man for themselves.'

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 12:19:17 PM
I think that's natural though, as the games are more personal. I actually had a game where a medic did his job and I watched his back in return, and when team play works, it's really something else.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 04, 2009, 12:24:32 PM
I don't like their filter options. I'd like to be able to search up to 20 or 24 or something, but it's either up to 16 or up to 32.

I'd also like to know if team selection is allowed, etc before I select a match. I don't know how they managed to make their online setup worse than Gears 1.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 12:33:06 PM
I don't like their filter options. I'd like to be able to search up to 20 or 24 or something, but it's either up to 16 or up to 32.

I'd also like to know if team selection is allowed, etc before I select a match. I don't know how they managed to make their online setup worse than Gears 1.

The fact that it has filtering based on maps, rank, game size and gametypes, as well as quick join and server browsing based on the filtering seats it above the genre leader in terms of options, so it seems pretty alright to me, and hopefully we see more console games with this type of customization. I wouldn't be surprised to see a patch addressing the "party" function, though.

I'm really liking this now. No amazing scores or anything, but 30+ points per match makes leveling up seem like an actual possibility. Just unlocked the medic, although I doubt I'll stick with that class.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 04, 2009, 02:28:44 PM
Other than Marcus himself, the rest of the characters in Gears were mostly walking stereotypes with shitty lines, which was fine as long as that's all they were supposed to be. Emotional scenes with these man-rhinos could make an avid viewer of SciFi Channel originals cringe, and this scene was actually worse. It's obvious that they wanted it to be like Gears, but they fucked up on giving the characters much personality. Well, other than Rico, and his personality I can live without. The Helghast feel a lot more alive than my squad members, and that can't have been the intention.

On that note, I think the criticism of the voice acting has been largely unfair. The actual voice acting doesn't seem bad at all, it's the implementation and the writing that sucks. Maybe it's more natural in Dutch?

Marcus is more of a stereotype than Dom.  It's really just Baird/Cole that are your "walking stereotypes," but they are ten times funnier than anything in Killzone 2.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on March 04, 2009, 04:12:47 PM
got my copy. hopefully i'll get to play it tonight
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 04, 2009, 06:11:59 PM
I finally unlocked that badge that boosts your score every time you get a body count kill, and it's ridiculously easy to get points now.  If you play decently and win a 5-minute BC match you can get around 45 points.

I'm starting to really love the MP, too, similar to how I loved CoD4's MP.  PS3 saved
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 04, 2009, 07:35:58 PM
Okie dokie, I think i'm done with this game. They want me to fight some dude with a lightning gun and I have about as much interest in doing that as I do going out and buying a Wii.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: TEEEPO on March 04, 2009, 09:04:14 PM
i don't remember that :(
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 04, 2009, 10:08:27 PM
Okie dokie, I think i'm done with this game. They want me to fight some dude with a lightning gun and I have about as much interest in doing that as I do going out and buying a Wii.

:wtf That's like fighting a Heavy, but easier. And you get a lightning gun out of it, a weapon that sounds like a perfect fit for you.

I finally unlocked that badge that boosts your score every time you get a body count kill, and it's ridiculously easy to get points now.  If you play decently and win a 5-minute BC match you can get around 45 points.

I'm starting to really love the MP, too, similar to how I loved CoD4's MP.  PS3 saved

I think Guerrilla screwed up the balance at the very start. Making squad and clan making abilities your first unlockables seems a bit daft as you'd have to be sort of into the game to even care about those things in the first place. At this point, I'm collecting enough points to make leveling up feel within reach, so it's a lot more rewarding.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: brawndolicious on March 05, 2009, 03:05:04 AM
off-topic but I was looking up the game length for the last prince of persia game and it's IGN score is .1 point different than KZ2's score.

That is why point systems don't work for movies and games.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 03:08:41 AM
Good to know, or something? :wtf

In other news, increased grenade and ammo count rocks.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on March 05, 2009, 04:53:23 AM
off-topic but I was looking up the game length for the last prince of persia game and it's IGN score is .1 point different than KZ2's score.

That is why point systems don't work for movies and games.

Eh, 1-5 or 1-10 is fine.  Adding in decimals n' shit is when it starts getting stupid.  IGN needs to drop it.  But really when it boils down to games, I like (I forget, was it Game Informer?) the score system of "Avoid, Rent, or Buy," because this is what I really want to know when I am looking for information on a new title.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 05, 2009, 09:33:57 AM
Good to know, or something? :wtf



You don't need to respond to every post lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 05, 2009, 10:15:38 AM
Will someone please post a poll asking EB if they're experiencing controller lag or not.  I have a point to prove to a buddy who seems to think that it's a vocal minority (1%, he said) complaining about the controller input lag, and well, I have to prove him wrong.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 11:21:09 AM
Will someone please post a poll asking EB if they're experiencing controller lag or not.  I have a point to prove to a buddy who seems to think that it's a vocal minority (1%, he said) complaining about the controller input lag, and well, I have to prove him wrong.

You're going to prove something to him by way of a poll on one of the web's king chief groups of conservative, unadaptive and very vocal whiners? Weak and proud, is that the war cry around here?  :-X
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 05, 2009, 11:42:54 AM
Says the guy who hasn't played Halo 3 on Legendary
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 11:57:06 AM
Says the guy who hasn't played Halo 3 on Legendary

Why would I want to do that? I don't like playing games on difficulties above my skill level, and even with the doublewide Very Magnetic Reticles, Heroic is the sweet spot for me. I'm getting about the same level of challenge from Killzone's Veteran, albeit a different type of challenge.

Happy to bend over for subpar controls, if you have more sense than me and like your fps games lag free then you are a pussy?!

The controls are different from the norm, and I guess if you can't or don't want to adapt, then obviously this game isn't for you. As for "lag," I'm not seeing much technical controller lag in this game. Are you guys actually experiencing it, or are you convincing yourselves of it based on a Youtube video? If it's a legitimate and significant bug, then obviously that's a different matter. If it's not, then you really are just a bunch of unadaptive twerps.

Edit: I hadn't seen the actual "misfire" bug. That shit was in the beta too, not good.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 05, 2009, 12:04:42 PM
Weak and proud, then?

Leave the game-skill grandstanding to demi
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 12:12:35 PM
Weak and proud, then?

Leave the game-skill grandstanding to demi

Who said anything about game skill? I'm talking about having somewhat of an ability to adapt. You know, how to not be a southern baptist minister of gaming. Maybe I'm being unfair since I'm probably used to adapting after having to retrain hand-eye coordination not too long ago, but I certainly hope the local whiners don't whine too much when every fucking game around plays exactly like the last, with no developers ever bothering to put their own spin on things.

Out of curiosity, though, did people have similar issues with BFBC? Or hell, GRAW?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 05, 2009, 12:47:57 PM
Someone please post the youtube again and shut this fuckin guy up

It is never a good thing when controller inputs result in no response


[youtube=560,345]5yFa_EZORYo[/youtube]

Start at 45 seconds for the most egregious cockbutt

The exact same input gives the player. A single input produces a whole range of changes of the screen, from nothing at all to small motions of the aim to slightly larger motions.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 01:06:49 PM
Yeah, I've seen that video a few times, and I'm not arguing against it. I also know that I'm not having any issues with controller lag affecting the gameplay, which would put us right back at an interest/ability to adapt. I'm also fairly sure of that it's a deliberate design, as a very slight delay was mentioned well before the game ever came out. Whether you like it or not, that's another issue. But yeah, it sure makes the game harder than it needs to be. ::) It's different, adapt or don't.

The actual unresponsiveness to identical actions, on the other hand, is a legitimate problem. Which was also present in the beta, and which I even reported.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 01:29:41 PM
By the way, for the first time while playing a PS3 game online, I feel forced to play without a mic. What in the hell is it about online gaming that inspires people to sing, randomly cuss and just generally act like jackasses? I could mute them, but then I'd have to mute damned near all of them.
Feel free to call me on my earlier comments regarding community features, but I can't wait until our clan fills up so that we can drown out the squeeking, cussing morons. I never really had much of a problem while playing COD4 or Resistance, but KZ2 seems to attract the most annoying types.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on March 05, 2009, 02:00:47 PM
My copy still hasn't arrived. Can't believe this shit.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 02:08:31 PM
A friend of mine did an online pre-order from Gamestop, and still doesn't have the game. I'd feel bad for him if he hadn't been so annoying with his lectures on the greatness of pre-ordering. I got my game from walking into Best Buy and picking it up on the 27th.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 03:18:19 PM
Urgh. Playing COD4 was a big mistake. As cool as KZ2 MP is, it really doesn't have shit on this.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 05, 2009, 04:05:25 PM
Urgh. Playing COD4 was a big mistake. As cool as KZ2 MP is, it really doesn't have shit on this.
What makes you say that, out of curiosity.  I never actually enjoyed CoD4 in multi all that much, to be honest (though I can't say I love playing KZ2 online all that much either).
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 04:25:43 PM
I have no idea. I suppose it's a mix of satisfying combat and accessibility. I'm not sure what exactly it is about it, but there's something irresistible about COD4 online. KZ2 crushes COD4's campaign with great fury, but even with all its options, depth and obviously incredible visuals, it really doesn't have anything on COD4 online.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 05, 2009, 04:45:16 PM
Accessibility?  :-X

:piss Being weak and proud :piss2
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 05:58:22 PM
Accessibility?  :-X

:piss Being weak and proud :piss2

Yeah, imagine the weakness in wanting to enjoy the game at its fullest without having to trudge through an upgrade path. At least they give you the ISA rifle right away, but I'm not sold on the set-up.

Quote
Are you guys actually experiencing it, or are you convincing yourselves of it based on a Youtube video?

what?
if you look back in this thread , people mentioned it was slow and clunky ages back.

Question, as i still cannot connect or create any online games, does MP have the same lag?

So let me make sure I have the story straight. People who mention the slowness and clunkiness, they were all then referring to this 150ms lag? Not that it really matters, as it's still a matter of adaptation. The only real issue here would be the alleged misfires, but then that must be a case to case issue as I couldn't replicate it myself. And I saw plenty of that shit in the beta.

As for testing out MP, I think you can create skirmishes without even going online. Be prepared to fiddle with the control settings though, as it doesn't transfer well to MP. A simple option of allowing the player to save multiple control configurations would help there.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on March 05, 2009, 06:35:52 PM
why didn't i rent this game :(

the shit eating controls damn near ruin what would have otherwise been a great game

at what level in mp do i get to switch characters?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 05, 2009, 06:38:38 PM
One thing that is misleading in that video is flicking the analog stick to prove there is controller lag; I don't think that's so much controller lag as it's the acceleration oddities.  It's just a different kind of bad.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on March 05, 2009, 06:46:43 PM
love how you're practically dead in mp if someone's shooting you from the side because you can't turn fast enough to respond ::)
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 06:54:13 PM
love how you're practically dead in mp if someone's shooting you from the side because you can't turn fast enough to respond ::)

Adapt or die.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 05, 2009, 10:54:18 PM
lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 10:59:13 PM
I'm starting to get sick of spawn grenades. Maybe it wouldn't be so fucking annoying if the turrets in your base were indestructible.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 05, 2009, 11:50:21 PM
Something something conservative pussy something something adapt or die something

It's mostly "die" in these situations, with little chance to adapt.

By the way, have you tried just selecting a different warzone, or use another user account with a US or EU address? Or is that typically locked to the actual consoles? Sounds weird.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 06, 2009, 12:19:57 AM
I have no idea. I suppose it's a mix of satisfying combat and accessibility. I'm not sure what exactly it is about it, but there's something irresistible about COD4 online. KZ2 crushes COD4's campaign with great fury, but even with all its options, depth and obviously incredible visuals, it really doesn't have anything on COD4 online.

Eh, CoD4 doesn't have the variety and utility of all the classes, you're also playing with only 11 other people and not 31 so you don't have the feeling of an all-out war, maps are much smaller, and the level of depth doesn't even compare to KZ2.

I think the actual gameplay is better though, and when MW2 comes out I'm not playing anything else, period.  (except maybe mass effect 2 if it comes out.)  I've just played CoD4 so much – at least around 250 hours – and I'm just tired of it for now, and KZ2 is really filling that void.  I think I've used my PS3 more in the past few weeks than I did for the 5 months before it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 12:25:04 AM
When Killzone 2 works, it really works. When you can get a good squad feel going, and you execute ambushes beautifully as a team, then it's some of the best MP I've had. And calling out a sniper for the rest of the team, and then see a few of your team mates catch the guy unawares, it's a beautiful thing. But it's just not as satisfying as COD4, to me. This will sound alarmingly geeky, but playing a round of COD4 gives you a real mental kick, and I haven't gotten that from KZ2 yet. And aside from maybe when someone calls in a chopper on shipment, I have never experienced the kind of clusterfuck that KZ2 throws you into when you're in a generally shitty game.

It's also lacking airstrikes. Big deal to me, for some odd reason. I have to say, though, having a guy in your sight only to have your view realistically obscured by passing gusts of dust, that's annoying in a very cool way.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on March 06, 2009, 09:39:28 AM
they released a patch (rumor is that EU has it first, US later?) and it supposedly fixed these issues.


Quote
Below is a list of fixes included in this patch. There is no new content or new features, but the list is pretty expansive. Check it out:

 Stability issue regarding randomly named games resolved.

 Stability fix when rapidly tapping (X) can cause crash on spawn-select.

Stability issue regarding Saboteur’s disguise ability resolved.

Stability fix on ‘Creating game’ with a blank name.

Stability fix for repeatedly entering exiting game.

The Ignore list functionality corrected.

Unlock of “Frontrunner” Medal now functioning correctly.

Fix for incorrect award of win to clan not showing for game resolved.

Battle Replay for Corinth Crossing not appearing correctly on www.killzone.com.

Issue with not being able to defuse the Search and Destroy objective resolved.

HUD issue correction during Assassination mode when playing as a Medic.

Controller input tweaks and modifications. 

Fix for auto-lock on of shotgun exploit.

Fix for D-Charge issues in Campaign mode.


hmmm @ bold
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 06, 2009, 10:07:08 AM
How the hell was shotgun lock-on an exploit? They couldn't find that within 5 minutes of QA? :lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on March 06, 2009, 10:26:46 AM
How the hell was shotgun lock-on an exploit? They couldn't find that within 5 minutes of QA? :lol

I guess they didnt think the assist to be that huge  :lol

reports on gaf are that the controls feels quicker.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 06, 2009, 11:33:14 AM
I'll try it later today and see if it's better or not.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 06, 2009, 11:39:35 AM
So where's the fix that lets me turn down the voice chat volume?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 06, 2009, 11:45:44 AM
You can do that in the settings.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 01:24:54 PM
How the hell was shotgun lock-on an exploit? They couldn't find that within 5 minutes of QA? :lol

I guess they didnt think the assist to be that huge  :lol

reports on gaf are that the controls feels quicker.

I don't recall there even being a flashlight on the shotgun in the beta.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 06, 2009, 01:43:32 PM
You can do that in the settings.
I can't, actually.  I try and move the slider and, well, it won't move.  And I have no idea why.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 06, 2009, 01:47:07 PM
Hold the stick for a really long time, for some reason that one moves slow as shit instead of being split into 10 blocks.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 02:03:27 PM
Where was this patch released, exactly? I logged in with my EU account, set warzone to EU, and there was no patch available. Unless it's determining location in some other way.

Not sure how smart it is to believe GAFers, but apparently, there is now strong auto-aim and they toned down a good chunk of the weightiness.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 06, 2009, 02:57:41 PM
love how you're practically dead in mp if someone's shooting you from the side because you can't turn fast enough to respond ::)
That's hardly an issue.  Was similar in Halo, actually.  The ability to surprise someone from behind is OK provided you understand this limitation and work with it.  This isn't a defense in favor of Killzone, rather, the slower paced console FPS genre.

Of course, Halo even offered weapons that could further decrease turning speed (the plasma pistols) of the player.  People always used to get angry and claim the game was broken when I'd pull that off.  ;)

Killzone 2 does bring death very quickly, however.  I haven't decided if I like that or not.  Honestly, I still think Halo nailed this in a way that no other shooter has.

Quote
Not sure how smart it is to believe GAFers, but apparently, there is now strong auto-aim and they toned down a good chunk of the weightiness.
I think it's great that they responded so quickly.  I hope it actually addresses the input lag, however, which was really the issue from the beginning.

Quote
Hold the stick for a really long time, for some reason that one moves slow as shit instead of being split into 10 blocks.
Due to the nature of headsets and microphones, I'd imagine they wanted to avoid potential squeals depending on the type of mic/headset you are using so it forces you to adjust with caution.  That's an obvious downside of using an open mic system (rather than supplying a standard mic ala XBOX360).
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 03:32:39 PM
Quote
Not sure how smart it is to believe GAFers, but apparently, there is now strong auto-aim and they toned down a good chunk of the weightiness.
I think it's great that they responded so quickly.  I hope it actually addresses the input lag, however, which was really the issue from the beginning.

Right, but I doesn't sound like that's what they are actually addressing. Judging by what some are saying, they are compromising movement and aiming. But then I'm not sure who to believe here, and I think maybe TTP is the most trustworthy on that. It's great if they are fixing bugs, but if they are as some claim changing the way the game controls, then that's a bit sad, yet understandable.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 03:44:57 PM
Quote
there is now strong auto-aim

Oh great, continue the trend of console games holding your hand with everything. Fucking bitch ass pussies.

Well, it remains to be seen how much truth there is to that. The group of people reporting this aren't exactly strangers to exaggeration and drama. TTP claims that there is more of a subtle difference to the controls.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 06, 2009, 04:42:32 PM
The last level has some of the worst-designed sections I've ever seen in a video game.  Re-spawning enemies mixed with shitty cover is never, ever fun.  I'm so annoyed that I'm about to break my disc.  Fuck Guerilla right up the ass, demi-style
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on March 06, 2009, 04:58:02 PM
Just made it to the bridge level. This one is supposed to be hell, right? Oh boy...
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 06, 2009, 05:12:21 PM
Just made it to the bridge level. This one is supposed to be hell, right? Oh boy...

It's not bad except for the part with re-spawning enemies.  That part sucks.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 05:24:35 PM
That AA section was a bit weird, very "gamey." They stop coming eventually, but you definitely have to face more enemies if you play defensively. The bridge was balls awesome, though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 06, 2009, 05:25:59 PM
Hold the stick for a really long time, for some reason that one moves slow as shit instead of being split into 10 blocks.
haha, if that's how it really works I want to give you a medal for saving my eardrums.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 06, 2009, 05:29:49 PM
The last level is the worst level in the history of video games.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 06, 2009, 05:47:27 PM
told ya
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 06, 2009, 05:52:51 PM
The re-spawning enemies were bad enough, but I got through those parts.  The waves and waves with no cover and no help from your AI buddy are unforgivable.  What terrible game design.  I'm playing on Veteran, by the way, which was almost completely fair until the last 3% of the game.

I hate this fucking game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 06:28:10 PM
The last level is the worst level in the history of video games.

I still have some ways to go before getting there, but I can't imagine it being worse than Cortana. I've been playing through Halo 3 on Heroic this time, and I absolutely dread getting to that level.

Killzone 2 does bring death very quickly, however.  I haven't decided if I like that or not.  Honestly, I still think Halo nailed this in a way that no other shooter has.

It's a lot more forgiving than COD4, though. The difference is that regeneration is a slow process, so if you manage to get away, you have to either stay hidden or be damned sure that you have the upper hand when you launch a counter-attack.

I have really grown to hate snipers, though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 09:15:00 PM
Patch is up, but I won't have a chance to check it out until late, late night.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 06, 2009, 09:15:42 PM
what an awesome moment ruined by shitty gamey "story telling"

spoiler (click to show/hide)
nuke goes off suddenly. I wasn't expecting it so I was pretty surprised. Then I sit and watch a load screen with an explanation of what just happened. Pulled me out of the moment and made the entire scenario lame. gg, GG
[close]

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 06, 2009, 09:37:46 PM
Quote
I absolutely dread getting to that level.


try it on legendary, it truly is  :-X :-X :-X

That will never happen. I honestly don't ever want to see that level ever again, but I want to complete the game again. That fucking level is so shitty and so out of place in an otherwise well designed game that it feels like Bungie accidentally left some internal gag level in the game. If the ending of KZ2 is worse even than that, then I will probably regret picking Veteran real quick.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 06, 2009, 10:27:45 PM
I really can't tell a different after the patch.  Granted that the last time I played was 3 or 4 days ago, but it still isn't perfect.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on March 06, 2009, 10:29:33 PM
I can tell a huge difference after the patch. Granted, I played it before it was patched and then as soon as it was patched played it again so I had the before-patch controls fresh in my mind.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 06, 2009, 10:50:39 PM
Playing some round of body count, I think might be more precise now.  I was getting headshots and generally able to tag an enemy even if they surprised me from the side much quicker/better now.  I haven't tried single player to tell if that changed.  Also, I just figured out that there is a crouch toggle in mutliplayer; that really helps a lot and they should patch that into single player.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 06, 2009, 11:37:15 PM
controls are better. not a huge difference but it's there

also: am I on the infamous "last part" of the game?
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just entered some building and the bad dude in the game went invisible.
[close]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 06, 2009, 11:45:30 PM
I just tried the Killzone 1 demo to remember what that game was like (i returned it a long time ago) and pretty much everything about KZ2 is way better except the lack of multiple characters.  Just playing the demo mission with Luger (stealthy), Templar (tactical shooter) and Rico (guns blazing) was a reminder of how different each level felt with each character.  It's also hilarious to see all the problems, like not being able to fucking jump over a small ledge, or the frame rate going to shit, or the many other problems the game has.  Still, if there is a KZ3, they should really go back to multiple characters with unique play styles. 

And surprisingly, the game isn't unplayable on the Dual Shock 3.  The Dual Shock 2 really was complete shit for shooters.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 06, 2009, 11:50:42 PM
controls are better. not a huge difference but it's there

also: am I on the infamous "last part" of the game?
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just entered some building and the bad dude in the game went invisible.
[close]

Yep.  If you're playing on normal, then you're fine.  Normal seems to be easy enough that even the re-spawning enemies shouldn't be too much of a problem.  If you're playing on Veteran, good luck!  You've got some annoyance ahead of you.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 06, 2009, 11:51:16 PM
controls are better. not a huge difference but it's there

also: am I on the infamous "last part" of the game?
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Just entered some building and the bad dude in the game went invisible.
[close]
Are you fighting in the same room that he's in?  If so, yes.

Also, the patch definitely improved the controls, imo.  It still retains the "weightiness" of the old controls but you also don't feel like you trying to control a wet fish with your bare hands.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 07, 2009, 12:06:14 AM
Good, I am playing on normal because I want to actually finish the game.

The big push before this part was awesome. Best part of the game.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 07, 2009, 12:40:43 AM
Playing some round of body count, I think might be more precise now.  I was getting headshots and generally able to tag an enemy even if they surprised me from the side much quicker/better now.  I haven't tried single player to tell if that changed.  Also, I just figured out that there is a crouch toggle in mutliplayer; that really helps a lot and they should patch that into single player.

I'm not noticing a whole lot of difference. If I was pressed to list differences, it would be that it seems to generally be easier to track enemies, and to make fine adjustments while using the holographic sight and ironsight. It doesn't feel compromised.


I just tried the Killzone 1 demo to remember what that game was like (i returned it a long time ago) and pretty much everything about KZ2 is way better except the lack of multiple characters.  Just playing the demo mission with Luger (stealthy), Templar (tactical shooter) and Rico (guns blazing) was a reminder of how different each level felt with each character.  It's also hilarious to see all the problems, like not being able to fucking jump over a small ledge, or the frame rate going to shit, or the many other problems the game has.  Still, if there is a KZ3, they should really go back to multiple characters with unique play styles. 

I was hoping that they would be able to actually meld all character types into one badass elite operative. You know, the stealth and silent kills of Luger the Shadow Marshal, the brute force of Rico and the general battle ability of Templar. Instead we got, well, Templar. It's a shame, especially since a few of the level sections seemed made for stealth and death from the shadows. Hence why I'm really hoping for expansions to this, at least a Shadow Marshal one. Those knife kills  :heartbeat
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 07, 2009, 04:27:44 PM
:bow Cruiser :bow2 The AA stuff was alright, although I think keeping it brief saved it. Mech segment was also good, but it did little more than make me wish for a new, dirty and brutal mech game.

Oh, and fistfulmetal, I agree with you about that scene.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
It's as if they put so much time into the actual explosion (which was hot) that they ran out of time and had to go with a text explanation.
[close]
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 08, 2009, 12:47:32 AM
A terrible last boss battle followed by a terrible ending. God. Can that even be called an "ending"?

And the game is really really short. Total play time was 5 hours 35 minutes. What the fuck.

Game is better than the first but it's still just a sheep in wolfs clothing. All the gloss and shin put on top of a fairly decent shooter. Also better than R2 and COD:WaW.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 08, 2009, 01:28:22 AM
As a shooter, it's overall fuck awesome, has some of the best skirmishes around, with weapons that feel great and enemies that offer up a real fight for their turf. And obviously the atmosphere helps a lot there. As a complete modern game, however, including things like writing and pacing, it's merely good (but then the medium isn't exactly flourishing with brilliant writing and character development). It's as if the company has matured to become one of the absolute top studios around when it comes to raw combat, but hasn't quite grasped the whole thing with storytelling, and the importance of likable characters. Which is honestly a bit odd, as I don't remember having much of a problem with any of the characters in Killzone, other than Rico. I even liked Luger, which I can't say about any of the characters in this game. The helghast have a hell of a lot more personality.

I think that, much like Halo 2 and 3, I'm going to be enjoying future playthroughs more, on account of being able to focus squarely on the combat without feeling like I might miss out on story by skipping the cutscenes. It's not even that the story is bad, it just feels poorly presented.


About game length, I don't understand how anyone can get through this game that fast. I'm at 8 hours, and I still have some ways to go.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 08, 2009, 01:46:28 AM
I really don't care about the story in games like this, and as for the characters, their existence in the story exceeded my expectations.  It's not totally empty like CoD, it doesn't have a main character like Master Chief, and it doesn't have a squad like Gears; KZ2 just has these guys there doing their thing that you don't care about.  The best thing I can say is that with the exception of Natiko, none of the characters weren't bad to look at in cutscenes or gameplay.

And I finished it in roughly the same time as fistfulofmetal.  I only played it on normal and don't see myself ever trying something harder unless it comes out on PC.  I also don't think I will replay the entire game again, but some battles I will go back and play for sure.  I'm glad the mission select even lets you choose specific checkpoints.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on March 08, 2009, 01:48:31 AM
As a shooter, it's overall fuck awesome, has some of the best skirmishes around, with weapons that feel great and enemies that offer up a real fight for their turf. And obviously the atmosphere helps a lot there. As a complete modern game, however, including things like writing and pacing, it's merely good (but then the medium isn't exactly flourishing with brilliant writing and character development). It's as if the company has matured to become one of the absolute top studios around when it comes to raw combat, but hasn't quite grasped the whole thing with storytelling, and the importance of likable characters. Which is honestly a bit odd, as I don't remember having much of a problem with any of the characters in Killzone, other than Rico. I even liked Luger, which I can't say about any of the characters in this game. The helghast have a hell of a lot more personality.

I think that, much like Halo 2 and 3, I'm going to be enjoying future playthroughs more, on account of being able to focus squarely on the combat without feeling like I might miss out on story by skipping the cutscenes. It's not even that the story is bad, it just feels poorly presented.


About game length, I don't understand how anyone can get through this game that fast. I'm at 8 hours, and I still have some ways to go.


I think what makes it worse was that the backstory seemed so fleshed out and interesting but it was nowhere hinted in the game.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 08, 2009, 01:53:56 AM
Well, you guys are missing out by playing on Normal. It's not really even about it being more difficult (as in a game like Resistance 2), it just makes the engagements more interesting. Although if reports are to be trusted, I'm about to regret the chosen difficulty setting. So far, so good.

As for characters, the times they have gotten on my nerves have been almost exclusively when the game has attempted to make them out to be very important characters that I should care about. As long as they are in the background, I don't care either way.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
But I felt more of a loss when Jackson and Co. were nuked in COD4 than I did when the guy that had fought alongside me through half of KZ2 got killed, which I think was a slight failure on Guerrilla's part.
[close]

I think what makes it worse was that the backstory seemed so fleshed out and interesting but it was nowhere hinted in the game.

It reeks of a corporate decision, to avoid potential conflict. It could also just be that they didn't feel up to the task of pursuing anything more profound than what was there and instead wanted to focus on getting the meat of the game right, which I think they have absolutely succeeded in. But then they should have completely dropped it, and not half-assed it like with those lame "emotional" scenes.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 08, 2009, 01:59:02 AM
I don't even know who Jackson and Co. were in CoD4.  Only person I remember was the black guy who rapped at the end.
 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 08, 2009, 03:00:14 AM
Well, you were. Until you died in the nuke blast. Nothing amazing, but it beats KZ2's closest equivalent.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 08, 2009, 12:11:06 PM
Well, you guys are missing out by playing on Normal. It's not really even about it being more difficult (as in a game like Resistance 2), it just makes the engagements more interesting. Although if reports are to be trusted, I'm about to regret the chosen difficulty setting. So far, so good.

As for characters, the times they have gotten on my nerves have been almost exclusively when the game has attempted to make them out to be very important characters that I should care about. As long as they are in the background, I don't care either way.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
But I felt more of a loss when Jackson and Co. were nuked in COD4 than I did when the guy that had fought alongside me through half of KZ2 got killed, which I think was a slight failure on Guerrilla's part.
[close]

Why in the hell couldn't I just use my magic healing gun during that part?  So stupid.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 08, 2009, 01:18:19 PM
Urgh, so much for my positive k/d ratio. Rocket launchers + air support + uneven teams + skilled tacticians on the opposing team = massacre.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 02:38:40 AM
Jesus shitmonkey Christ, the GOD DAMNED rocket launcher STOP USING IT you fucks

Dog shit, only a few matches back this was a totally awesome game, lots of tactics and team efforts for the great win, and now it's just fucking rockets rocket rockets fuck

Oh good, now there are grenade launchers. Fuck this game up its fucking ass. I think I'm going to have to start creating my own games and lock some classes the hell out.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on March 09, 2009, 08:02:45 AM
Finally got the game (fucking lazy post, striking for 3 days and being late). Played the first level, liked it a lot. Glad I played the demo a lot so I could jump right into the game and not have any difficulty whatsoever. Started on trooper to not cause too much frustration on first playthrough.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Darunia on March 09, 2009, 10:29:05 AM
Completed it last week on trooper, may go back to tackle Veteran. Overall I thought there were some impressive levels (like the desert one filled with snipers and the fun with the electro gun level), but it had its fair share of problems as well. Hated the boss battles - that weren't armored troopers - for one. Didn't like the way GG chose to show damage. I'd like to still see where I'm going after i've been badly hurt.

Also, there seemed to be quite a few spots with endless enemy respawns. I hoped this game wouldn't fall for that.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 01:50:07 PM
Finally got the game (fucking lazy post, striking for 3 days and being late). Played the first level, liked it a lot. Glad I played the demo a lot so I could jump right into the game and not have any difficulty whatsoever. Started on trooper to not cause too much frustration on first playthrough.

Dude, don't do it. Combat is so much more interesting on Veteran that you're doing yourself a disservice by playing on Easy.

Also, there seemed to be quite a few spots with endless enemy respawns. I hoped this game wouldn't fall for that.

I'm pretty sure there are no endless respawns, but some sections throw more enemies at you if you don't advance. They eventually stop coming, though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 09, 2009, 01:51:07 PM
Jesus shitmonkey Christ, the GOD DAMNED rocket launcher STOP USING IT you fucks

Dog shit, only a few matches back this was a totally awesome game, lots of tactics and team efforts for the great win, and now it's just fucking rockets rocket rockets fuck

Oh good, now there are grenade launchers. Fuck this game up its fucking ass. I think I'm going to have to start creating my own games and lock some classes the hell out.

blame the distinguished mentally-challenged level up system that requires people to use that class
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 01:56:29 PM
Jesus shitmonkey Christ, the GOD DAMNED rocket launcher STOP USING IT you fucks

Dog shit, only a few matches back this was a totally awesome game, lots of tactics and team efforts for the great win, and now it's just fucking rockets rocket rockets fuck

Oh good, now there are grenade launchers. Fuck this game up its fucking ass. I think I'm going to have to start creating my own games and lock some classes the hell out.

blame the distinguished mentally-challenged level up system that requires people to use that class

I blame everyone. Guerrilla for even including these weapons, and people for using them. The game went from being awesome CQB to some kind of bastard Halo/Killzone 2 hybrid, without the benefit of shields to compensate for added splash damage. Well, that's not entirely true as the guy who gets to wield the grenade launcher does have extra armor.  :punch
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on March 09, 2009, 02:57:12 PM
Got home, picked the game from mail, put in game, updated the console, takes forever, starts playing the game, turns *off*.

Underwhelmaton, i was like "Check this game out sister, it's supposed to be pretty amazing", the beginning in the star ship looks super average, so i was like "wait for it...", level starts, and i'm like...what the fuck, this game was supposed to look much better.

Coming from RES5 makes it super underwhelming. Suddenly, a ton of posts on the net just sound like far fetched hyperbole. And i was super pissed when i noticed no rumble on my six axis, it's a game that should really benefit from the DS3, but i got those Geo triggers, so the shooting feels pretty good now.

Will finish RES5 first totally.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 03:35:48 PM
And in some games, that totally works. Here? No, it just plain doesn't. Maybe if people used them differently, to soften up the opposition from afar, but then that is not how the game is played right now. And with most custom games being created with friendly fire off, there's no penalty to it. If I'm going to stick with the game, it's going to be through my own custom games from here on.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 09, 2009, 03:53:23 PM
No foe is unkillable. Adapt or die, drooling Xfag
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 04:20:11 PM
No foe is unkillable. Adapt or die, drooling Xfag

Technically, I could adapt and use the rocket launcher too, but if I wanted rocket matches, I have this other game that is just about perfect for that. And I have GRAW and COD4 sitting here too, so KZ2 might not be worth it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 09, 2009, 04:27:49 PM
What a pussy gamer, unbelievable, he can't adapt and he blames the game and then puts it aside, wow just wow
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 04:30:18 PM
What a pussy gamer, unbelievable, he can't adapt and he blames the game and then puts it aside, wow just wow

This is like your shittiest attempt yet  :gloomy For fuck's sake, mojovonio does this shit better than you. Mediocrity in unoriginality, smh.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 09, 2009, 04:34:44 PM
i have the last post in this topic again
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 09:10:58 PM
He hAs you good this time duck.

As if. I refuse to acknowledge any real similarities between some unwashed baboon bitching up a storm because the game controls differently from other shooters, and a stylish fellow such as myself losing interest in the game after noticing that the whole multiplayer component turns on its head hours in. So there.

In other news, :bow GRAW elimination fireight, Old Town :bow2  I know it's meant for multiplayer, but these missions make for better SP than most dedicated campaigns.

Oh p.s. Was the kz2 beta the most pointless beta ever? Every single issue should have been caught by moderate play testing, did GG ignore reported issues, or was the beta community a bit rubbish?

Some things were fixed, others were seemingly ignored. One critical fix was respawn invulnerability, as the previous method made it perfectly possible for one team to effectively besiege the spawn point, total fish in barrel experience. I think they might have overshot it with the fix though, as freshly spawned players are now invulnerable and instantly battle ready. So there are a few seconds of god mode.

One thing that people complained about that was never fixed is the explosive weapons stuff. But most people played with FF on, so there was a TK penalty to just blindly shooting rockets into groups of people.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 09:17:47 PM
Sheer number of players, and more servers with FF off. With no TK penalty, a rocket shot into a crowded room makes for easy, fast points. I don't actually recall playing any games in the beta that had friendly fire off. The 32 player matches were just as bad back then, though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on March 09, 2009, 09:29:44 PM
Should i change the Res or something? This game has unhealthy amounts of aliasing.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 09, 2009, 09:38:04 PM
edit: ^^^ I'm not getting any aliasing at all, and I'm on 720p.  No idea why it looks like that.

Yeah, I think I'm done with KZ2's MP for a while now.  I've played it for like 14 hours in one week (top 6 percent, woot) and unlocked all the classes, and since half the maps are shitted up with the assault class I'm just not very motivated to play it now.  And I have all of Orange Box to play too (and Civ Rev!), so it's not like I have nothing else to play.  Oh well. :-\

Though really, after thinking on it, the assault class is absolutely ridiculous and shouldn't even be in the final product.  Why on earth does it have extra health and the boost ability unlocked from the start, especially when you have to put in some significant time to unlock air support, health packs, C4, etc?  And then it has a rocket launcher, where you can kill anyone without skill.  And then you can pick up your charred enemy's weapon and have a distinct advantage against everyone else with your speed and health.  Actually, what place does a rocket launcher even have in KZ2's MP?  There aren't any vehicles or other significant, heavily armored things to destroy.

And after all that, why wasn't this class removed or toned down after years of development and testing and a public beta?)

Not everything can be perfect, I suppose. :(
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on March 09, 2009, 09:45:14 PM
I'm playing in 1080i. Gonna change to 720p, there has to be something wrong here, the game didn't look like this in videos.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 09, 2009, 10:02:24 PM
I had really bad jaggies at 1080i too, but my 1080p home boy thought I was crazy. Lemme know how your experimentation goes.

also lol @ the justification up above. You must learn to love the 'weird' controls but it's too much to ask to find a counter for a 'cheap' tactic!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on March 09, 2009, 10:36:43 PM
If we had a banned site list, I would suggest we add this site:

http://gamingfront.net/article/61/lets-give-killzone-2-game-of-the-year-now/ (http://gamingfront.net/article/61/lets-give-killzone-2-game-of-the-year-now/)

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 10:38:15 PM
I had really bad jaggies at 1080i too, but my 1080p home boy thought I was crazy. Lemme know how your experimentation goes.

also lol @ the justification up above. You must learn to love the 'weird' controls but it's too much to ask to find a counter for a 'cheap' tactic!

If you can't see the difference between insta-bitching about having to learn something moderately different, and complaining about a game completely changing in nature after hours of playing, then you're far dumber than I thought you were.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: FatalT on March 09, 2009, 10:46:58 PM
If we had a banned site list, I would suggest we add this site:

http://gamingfront.net/article/61/lets-give-killzone-2-game-of-the-year-now/ (http://gamingfront.net/article/61/lets-give-killzone-2-game-of-the-year-now/)



That article reads like it was written by a 13 year old.

Looks like it was actually written by a 26 year old douche: http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewProfile&friendID=352625030
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 09, 2009, 10:55:32 PM
I had really bad jaggies at 1080i too, but my 1080p home boy thought I was crazy. Lemme know how your experimentation goes.

also lol @ the justification up above. You must learn to love the 'weird' controls but it's too much to ask to find a counter for a 'cheap' tactic!

If you can't see the difference between insta-bitching about having to learn something moderately different, and complaining about a game completely changing in nature after hours of playing, then you're far dumber than I thought you were.


Fact is both things are subjective, and will make different people have different opinions. This is why it is stupid to shout down and insult people when they have an issue that you don't, because odds are the next day you will have an issue that they haven't had and then you can't say shit. Or you can be duckman, say shit anyway and not even realize how stupid and hypocritical you sound. As if weirdo accelerated/sluggish controls don't qualify as a complete change in nature from typical FPSes.

BTW it's far more common to have to 'adapt' to people using 'cheesy' tactics online than to have to adapt to somewhat bizarre control choices. Man up!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 11:15:55 PM
Fact is both things are subjective, and will make different people have different opinions. This is why it is stupid to shout down and insult people when they have an issue that you don't, because odds are the next day you will have an issue that they haven't had and then you can't say shit. Or you can be duckman, say shit anyway and not even realize how stupid and hypocritical you sound.

BTW it's far more common to have to 'adapt' to people using 'cheesy' tactics online than to have to adapt to somewhat bizarre control choices. Man up!

If I nearly immediately label a game broken because I can't adapt to it and because it doesn't play like this or that game, I wholly expect to get called on that. And as I recall, I've already been bitched at roundly by people on this board for ripping on games that I apparently put too little time into, so hey. Trying to mine ownage out of this shit, though, that just makes you look some tard with all the wit of a right-wing pundit.

As for adapting to this, I see little point in doing so when I can simply lock it out of my games. Or, pick up games with overall more desirable MP.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 09, 2009, 11:20:55 PM
I'm not trying to own you, I'm trying to point out to you that you don't have to nuke threads when people express something you disagree with. It's really annoying to see someone try so hard to shut down honest debate, and for you to come back around and try to use this topic as a platform for what you deem bitchworthy is too much to pass up.

Kestastrophe decided to put this game aside and play something else and you said he had shit taste in games. Hello?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 11:34:15 PM
I'm not trying to own you, I'm trying to point out to you that you don't have to nuke threads when people express something you disagree with. It's really annoying to see someone try so hard to shut down honest debate, and for you to come back around and try to use this topic as a platform for what you deem bitchworthy is too much to pass up.

Do you honestly think that the overwhelming majority of control complaints have in any way been intended to be starting points for a reasonable debate? I know it's easy to forget in the mix of things, but I'm pretty sure I've been doing my part in helping people out with control options. Nor have I ever claimed that the game is for everyone. But there's a massive difference between that and giving the game 10 minutes of your time before you come into a thread and gripe about it being broken, unplayable, made unnecessarily difficult, etc.

I'm well aware that I've lost my temper on this quite a few times and ripped on a lot of people undeservedly which has its source in having seen the "argument" a few too many times already, but if you want to take an honest look at shit that hinders real discussion, you might want to take some of the floodlights off of me and consider other issues too.

On a related note, with you being someone who allegedly safeguards debate around here, you don't think there's something a little bit off with you steering this discussion away from the subject?


Kestastrophe decided to put this game aside and play something else and you said he had shit taste in games. Hello?

Actually, I said that he had shit taste in games because he loved Killzone and hated Killzone 2.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 09, 2009, 11:40:59 PM
Quote
I'm well aware that I've lost my temper on this quite a few times and ripped on a lot of people undeservedly

Glad we can agree
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 09, 2009, 11:42:31 PM
Hey, I've already admitted to that, and very nearly apologized. To some.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 10, 2009, 02:36:36 AM
Damn, this palace level (right after arc towers) is kicking my ass. The flamethrower is fuck awesome now, seems like the pressure has ben increased for the occasion. Feels more like hellfire than devil pee now.

:bow Raining napalm on the enemies :bow2
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on March 10, 2009, 02:39:08 AM
I'm playing in 1080i. Gonna change to 720p, there has to be something wrong here, the game didn't look like this in videos.

that's because the games resolution switches to 960 x 1080 when upscaled
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 10, 2009, 02:44:01 AM
The aiming in KZ2 is actually clever in a distinguished mentally-challenged way.  It's like, a lot of games have the right stick labeled as '"look" when it really functions as both head and body movement, or looking and turning.  It's more realistic in the movement, which is clever, but it's also not practical for the game.  I'd actually say that the kind of feeling they were going for would actually work better on the Wii since FPS games on that have a look area, then a turn area instead of having both as the same like for dual analog and kb/m.  Again, it's not practical, just kinda neat in a stupid way.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 10, 2009, 03:01:37 AM
Speaking of which, this could just be me imagining things, but does it seem to anyone else as if the movement has been tweaked more so than the aiming? Playing SP again now, and it feels like there's less resistance to the movement. Could also just be because I just played GRAW.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on March 10, 2009, 08:58:00 AM
Fuck me, the (first?) desert level is fantastic. Really good shootouts, great pacing. I love the feeling of 'advancing' and taking ground through 'clever' movement and level 'exploration', makes it even cooler through the use of cover. Really beautiful to pop a barrel and see your enemy light up in flames. I like the shooting so much that because of the one weapon carry system I usually find myself not using the power weapons that much. I'd rather have one of the standard rifles.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on March 10, 2009, 01:12:37 PM
edit: ^^^ I'm not getting any aliasing at all, and I'm on 720p.  No idea why it looks like that.

Yeah, I think I'm done with KZ2's MP for a while now.  I've played it for like 14 hours in one week (top 6 percent, woot) and unlocked all the classes, and since half the maps are shitted up with the assault class I'm just not very motivated to play it now.  And I have all of Orange Box to play too (and Civ Rev!), so it's not like I have nothing else to play.  Oh well. :-\

Though really, after thinking on it, the assault class is absolutely ridiculous and shouldn't even be in the final product.  Why on earth does it have extra health and the boost ability unlocked from the start, especially when you have to put in some significant time to unlock air support, health packs, C4, etc?  And then it has a rocket launcher, where you can kill anyone without skill.  And then you can pick up your charred enemy's weapon and have a distinct advantage against everyone else with your speed and health.  Actually, what place does a rocket launcher even have in KZ2's MP?  There aren't any vehicles or other significant, heavily armored things to destroy.

And after all that, why wasn't this class removed or toned down after years of development and testing and a public beta?)

Not everything can be perfect, I suppose. :(


Isnt the whole point of the class to basically "assault"?

he's like the heavy weapons/demolision/clear-out/damage dealer guy.

The aids they give him help with that, but sadly it can be used very easily and without skill (especially if FF is off and they can do all sort of shit)



Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Draft on March 10, 2009, 03:03:35 PM

he's like the heavy weapons/demolision/clear-out/damage dealer guy.

:lol as opposed to what, like the healing guy or the guy who drops ammo. Sounds like a pretty good all around class, the heavy weapons/demolition/clear-out/damage dealer guy.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Purple Filth on March 10, 2009, 03:15:15 PM

he's like the heavy weapons/demolision/clear-out/damage dealer guy.

:lol as opposed to what, like the healing guy or the guy who drops ammo. Sounds like a pretty good all around class, the heavy weapons/demolition/clear-out/damage dealer guy.

 :lol

should have said that he was the "tank" and just goes in full force.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on March 10, 2009, 03:32:21 PM
:bow last level :bow2

Storming Visari's palace is terribly beautiful. The chaos, the fighting and the imagery (the red baniers/flags in the wind) is amazing there. It feels God of Warish in its apocalyptic feel, chaos and intensity, but more 'immersive'.

Amazing game, fantastic. Everything comes together to a degree that's impressive. They all complement one another and don't detract.
That said, it's not very creative in its gameplay, it doesn't go beyond in giving you stuff that makes you think "wow, I can't believe they (can) let me do this". In COD4 you had the nuclear blast, the helicopter bombing run and the sniper stuff. In Gears of War 2 you had the brumac and the panzer dragoon stuff among other things. Halo has you doing warthog runs, hornet flights and taking down scarabs in whatever way you like. Then again, Gears of War 2 didn't do that great of a job in its execution and didn't give you enough of its strong point (good ol' close quarter shooting) in lieu of 'epic' fights and COD 4 has you fighting spawn boxes. (Halo 3 I like   :-*) Killzone 2 knows what it does best and gives you lots of it, so I'd rather have that.
The breaks from the regular gameplay (mech, space ship, etc) are executed well, play smoothly and don't last that long. COD4 and Gears 2 haven't gotten any repeated playthroughs, but Killzone 2 will...if not just for the three amazing levels (first desert level, back in the space ship and the last level) but now on veteran.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Tieno on March 10, 2009, 03:52:58 PM
nm
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 10, 2009, 04:10:20 PM
You will hate the last level on Veteran.  There are two places where you have re-spawning enemies and another few waves of (seemingly) endless guys are thrown at you before the boss.  I've died more in the last level than in the entire game so far, and I still haven't beaten the last section of it.  It would've been perfectly fine if there was co-op.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on March 10, 2009, 04:11:21 PM
Way less aliasing at 720p.

Game is solid fun. Nothing outstanding so far. Graphics aren't that impressive. But i'm having fun.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 10, 2009, 04:48:17 PM
:bow last level :bow2

Storming Visari's palace is terribly beautiful. The chaos, the fighting and the imagery (the red baniers/flags in the wind) is amazing there. It feels God of Warish in its apocalyptic feel, chaos and intensity, but more 'immersive'.

That part has made the flamethrower my favorite weapon in the game. Not so much because it's an effective weapon, more because the effect of splashing napalm is enchanting. That said, I haven't actually gotten through this section yet, so maybe I should stop fire-gazing and start playing the game properly.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 11, 2009, 02:04:40 AM
God damn it, I thought the custom soundtrack feature was for SP. I even dug up a bunch of Bolt Thrower for the occasion.   :gloomy
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 11, 2009, 02:22:17 AM
Maybe COD 3 and 5 are very different from COD 1,2 and 4, but the enemy encounters in KZ2 have felt nothing like the COD I know (with all the ups and downs that comes with that). Maybe some hellfire spawn of COD and Clancy, but that doesn't sound right either.

The scenarios, on the other hand, wouldn't be out of place in a typical COD.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on March 11, 2009, 04:14:21 AM
So is this patch out everywhere yet?  Glad I held off playing it now.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 11, 2009, 11:33:24 AM
Game is solid fun. Nothing outstanding so far. Graphics aren't that impressive. But i'm having fun.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 11, 2009, 11:38:14 AM
I retract all my bitching about the assault class.

Turns out that extra health is really helpful in getting 10 pistol shots in a match.  M4 Revolver incoming, baby :hyper
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: demi on March 11, 2009, 11:44:49 AM
Have you guys noticed people selling their Killzone 2's in the GAF sale thread? lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on March 11, 2009, 01:18:34 PM
Game is solid fun. Nothing outstanding so far. Graphics aren't that impressive. But i'm having fun.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

All true.

Playing on Veteran. Don't like that i can only choose 1 gun to carry. A.I is nice. But RES5 kept getting me back. Right now i could be playing KZ2, but i don't feel like it.

I'll probably leave the game for a time where i'm more excited about balls to the wall action.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 11, 2009, 04:44:04 PM
The new patch is good
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 11, 2009, 05:39:07 PM
Have you guys noticed people selling their Killzone 2's in the GAF sale thread? lol

Any prominent Sfags or juts Gamefaqs rejects?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: demi on March 11, 2009, 05:40:20 PM
/shrug
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 11, 2009, 06:02:20 PM
I tend to always sell games while they still have some resale value, and KZ2 is no different. Lost about $10 including sales tax, but hey. Beats trying to patch together Gamestop promotions to get some resale value out of it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Mr. Gundam on March 11, 2009, 06:14:22 PM
I tend to always sell games while they still have some resale value, and KZ2 is no different. Lost about $10 including sales tax, but hey. Beats trying to patch together Gamestop promotions to get some resale value out of it.

I stick to selling games on Half.com. I managed to sell Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix (PS3) for $25 last week. I think I got it for $25 over a year ago.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: rubber feathers on March 11, 2009, 07:14:59 PM
I tend to always sell games while they still have some resale value, and KZ2 is no different. Lost about $10 including sales tax, but hey. Beats trying to patch together Gamestop promotions to get some resale value out of it.

Geez, you sold KZ2 already?  I thought you immensely enjoyed the beta (and full game)?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on March 11, 2009, 08:05:24 PM
I might have to dump KZ2 towards Sacred 2 next week.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 11, 2009, 08:17:51 PM
Game is solid fun. Nothing outstanding so far. Graphics aren't that impressive. But i'm having fun.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl

All true.

Playing on Veteran. Don't like that i can only choose 1 gun to carry. A.I is nice. But RES5 kept getting me back. Right now i could be playing KZ2, but i don't feel like it.

I'll probably leave the game for a time where i'm more excited about balls to the wall action.
None of it is true, you disingenuous piece of shit. 

"Graphics aren't that impressive."

Who the fuck are you kidding?  You try so hard to be the #1 contrarian in a forum full of them that it's becoming laughable.  Killzone 2's visuals are so above and beyond everything else released this gen that it's not even debatable.  The epic battle leading up to Visari's palace was the single greatest looking segment of gaming that I've ever witnessed.

And did you seriously mention that fucking abomination Resident Evil 5 in the same sentence?  The game with shitty controls, shitty gameplay, shitty everything that most everyone is considering a huge disappointment?  Take away the "Resident Evil" in the title and nobody would give a shit about that game.  It's fucking terrible.

Let me make something clear, you Xfag fuck.  I don't like you.  If I ever saw you on the street, let it be known that I wouldn't hesitate for one second to put your ass down.  It's contrarian, elitist, disingenuous, attention-starved motherfuckers like you that piss me off to no end.

I'm serious.  Don't let the pretty boy looks fool you.  If you're ever around Philly, let me know because I'd like to bash your skull in, alright?  Are we clear? 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 11, 2009, 08:22:08 PM
That last half was a bit too familiar. 6/10
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 11, 2009, 09:09:24 PM
That last half was a bit too familiar. 6/10
gave it a shot but don't have it in me anymore
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Van Cruncheon on March 11, 2009, 09:10:48 PM
Quote from: CHOW CHOW
Killzone 2's visuals are so above and beyond everything else released this gen that it's not even debatable.  The epic battle leading up to Visari's palace was the single greatest looking segment of gaming that I've ever witnessed.

:lol :spin :lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on March 11, 2009, 09:30:31 PM
*bark* *bark*

or is it

*uuf* *uuf*

It really hasn't been doing much for me. heh It has great lightning though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 11, 2009, 09:41:50 PM
That last half was a bit too familiar. 6/10
gave it a shot but don't have it in me anymore

:bow kbear's unending humility :bow2
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Oblivion on March 11, 2009, 09:45:12 PM
dayum chow chow is one straight up internet GANGSTA  :o

good thing i'm on the other side of amurrica, would hate to have him bust a 187 up in my ass ya hurd :pimp
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 11, 2009, 09:58:16 PM
I tend to always sell games while they still have some resale value, and KZ2 is no different. Lost about $10 including sales tax, but hey. Beats trying to patch together Gamestop promotions to get some resale value out of it.

Geez, you sold KZ2 already?  I thought you immensely enjoyed the beta (and full game)?

It was awesome, but not awesome enough to keep around. As for multiplayer, it requires more time and effort than I feel I can spare these days. I'll get it again when it's $20 and I have some time to play it.

Oh yeah, and custom soundtrack feature being exclusive to MP was a disappointment. I'm getting sort of sick of the typical war game "epic" soundtrack stuff, I would have preferred a custom Bolt Thrower mix. Imagine Eternal War kicking in right at the beginning of the palace push.  :omg
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on March 12, 2009, 04:19:09 AM
the recent patch made the controls better? :lol

i haven't noticed any great improvement
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 12, 2009, 09:52:13 AM
the recent patch made the controls better? :lol

i haven't noticed any great improvement

It's a pretty small improvement
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Kestastrophe on March 12, 2009, 10:41:28 AM
And did you seriously mention that fucking abomination Resident Evil 5 in the same sentence?  The game with shitty controls, shitty gameplay, shitty everything that most everyone is considering a huge disappointment?  Take away the "Resident Evil" in the title and nobody would give a shit about that game.  It's fucking terrible.

Let me make something clear, you Xfag fuck.  I don't like you.  If I ever saw you on the street, let it be known that I wouldn't hesitate for one second to put your ass down.  It's contrarian, elitist, disingenuous, attention-starved motherfuckers like you that piss me off to no end.

 :teehee
The irony is thicker than a black penis. Only room for one KZ2 White Knight, and duckman claimed that a long time ago
:bow duckman

Anyways, duckman when you think about the $10 that you lost, it really isn't that different than the $8 that it costs to rent from Blockbuster or other rental store. I often find myself doing the same thing, buying and reselling, as opposed to renting
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 12, 2009, 02:12:08 PM
Heh, game feels very much like a cod game to me. At this rate i will never finish it. 30 mins gaming all week, tragic
Hmm, I find that very interesting.  Opinions aside, the way the game handles its enemy encounters and scenario design is really very different from CoD for the most part.  Enemies in CoD would either remain stationary (popping up and down to fire at the player) or continuously spawn from a random source until the player crosses a certain point.  The majority of battles in Killzone do not present the player with a stream of enemies, rather, bring them out in specifically designed groups similar to Halo.  Though there is certainly less variety, you still have a lot of elements of Halo playing out here.  Furthermore, like Halo, the game has a fairly solid close-quarters aspect with a very powerful melee and cover to cover action.  Most of the encounters are driven by the player in that their length depends heavily upon how the player executes their plan of attack.  In CoD, it doesn't matter how quickly you can tackle a group of enemies as that game is more focused on reaching specific points than it is dealing with enemies.  The enemy variety falls somewhere between Halo and CoD, however, in that there are different classes of enemies mixed together, but they are not nearly as unique as what Halo presents (though Halo lost some of this with the 3rd game thanks to the removal of the Elites from combat).

I dunno, the game felt very Halo-like to me (especially the second half of the campaign) with a military slant.  I still think Halo 3 is the better game in every aspect outside of the visuals (which Bungie really dropped the ball on).
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 12, 2009, 02:14:18 PM
played a little multiplayer yesterday and i actually like it over the single
which is rare for me

game feels like Battlefield combined with COD.

with the ranks and squads and stuff.

i don't like how you can't choose a base class and then rank THAT up. i really don't want to be a medic when i get there just so i can be the fast light armored spec ops type dude.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 12, 2009, 02:31:02 PM
Anyways, duckman when you think about the $10 that you lost, it really isn't that different than the $8 that it costs to rent from Blockbuster or other rental store. I often find myself doing the same thing, buying and reselling, as opposed to renting

Yeah, it's a pretty safe bet with big games (except Ubi games, for some reason). I actually thought I'd keep this around a bit longer, due to the MP. I think a co-op mode, local or online, would have "saved" it.

As for this COD comparison, I just plain don't see it. In terms of mission design, sure, but the combat feels more like a mix of Gears and Rainbow Six to me. That is if we are going to make direct comparisons, which I don't really think are warranted in the first place. The helghast felt more capable and alive than your average wargame enemy, and even if it's obviously the case since I did manage to mow my way through legions of helghast, I rarely actually felt like a blatantly superior super-warrior. There are a lot of things about Killzone 2 that are brutally derivative, but enemy design and combat gives it a pretty strong identity.

That said, I have only played COD 1, 2 and 4, so maybe Treyarch's COD games are very different from those three games.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 12, 2009, 03:16:34 PM
Quote
That said, I have only played COD 1, 2 and 4, so maybe Treyarch's COD games are very different from those three games.
No, I think it was intended as an insult.  CoD3 and 5 are quite inferior to the others (especially 3).
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Jansen on March 12, 2009, 04:02:35 PM
i like how in MP you can blast a dude with the shotgun and it takes a 1/2 second before it registers the hit and then the dude blows back :lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 12, 2009, 04:18:19 PM
The lag is made a lot more obvious thanks to the "hit response" stuff. I was also a bit annoyed to see that the murder-suicide stuff was still in effect in the game. I understand that some things can be beyond fixing, but that's not the impression we got from Guerrilla.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: drohne on March 12, 2009, 04:20:02 PM
i've had this since launch but i have no desire to play anything besides sf4 -- maybe i shouldn't have bothered
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 13, 2009, 02:10:15 PM
Here's a nice little story from Ars Technica on some issues they've been having with the multiplayer:

http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/03/killzone-2-multiplayer-impressions.ars (http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2009/03/killzone-2-multiplayer-impressions.ars)

What do you think?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 13, 2009, 02:24:37 PM
Killzone 2 demands and rewards coordinated team efforts, got it. Dude could have wrapped that one up in two, maybe three paragraphs.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on March 13, 2009, 02:35:54 PM
Killzone 2 demands and rewards coordinated team efforts, got it. Dude could have wrapped that one up in two, maybe three paragraphs.

He repeated himself way too much, but you missed many other points.  One or two asshats on a team of 16 can ruin the game for you.  That kind of sucks.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 14, 2009, 07:10:53 PM
there's this thing on killzone.com called gamereplay.
it allows you to view 2D top down replays of your past matches.  :o
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 14, 2009, 07:17:19 PM
there's this thing on killzone.com called gamereplay.
it allows you to view 2D top down replays of your past matches.  :o
no shit? that's pretty cool..gonna check it out.  like a top down 2d shooter?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 14, 2009, 07:36:55 PM
this is it:
(http://xs137.xs.to/xs137/09116/reply856.jpg)
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 14, 2009, 07:41:55 PM
ehh  :-\
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Draft on March 14, 2009, 07:48:25 PM
Killzone 2 demands and rewards coordinated team efforts, got it. Dude could have wrapped that one up in two, maybe three paragraphs.

A beautiful game rewards coordinated team efforts, but does not demand them.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 14, 2009, 07:48:58 PM
you expected to view actual gameplay? it's through a web browser dude. It's still pretty cool to me.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 14, 2009, 08:08:29 PM
you expected to view actual gameplay? it's through a web browser dude. It's still pretty cool to me.
halo 3 lets you save the videos onto your hdd... i dunno, i was hoping for something like that but i guess this will do
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 16, 2009, 08:45:13 AM
you expected to view actual gameplay? it's through a web browser dude. It's still pretty cool to me.
halo 3 lets you save the videos onto your hdd... i dunno, i was hoping for something like that but i guess this will do
Right, that's realtime (which obviously saves tremendous space).  This is through a web browser.  They'd have to record video for everything if they were to allow you to view it online.  Furthermore, they'd have to save footage from everyone's perspective!  For a more advanced top down 2D view, I think it would be more possible but still pretty difficult.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 16, 2009, 11:50:03 AM
playing the CoD World at war demo on 360 yesterday, it's amazing to see how responsive those controls are compared to KZ2.  I know it's what they intended with KZ2, but CoD4/WoW still have the best dual analog controls.  The demo itself was pretty awful though.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 16, 2009, 01:53:38 PM
playing the CoD World at war demo on 360 yesterday, it's amazing to see how responsive those controls are compared to KZ2.  I know it's what they intended with KZ2, but CoD4/WoW still have the best dual analog controls.  The demo itself was pretty awful though.

I enjoy both styles, but for the future, I think I'd rather see more developers work towards perfection down the path Guerrilla has taken. The combination of controls/weapons handling and one-sided enemy behavior enables you to push through overwhelming enemy forces with some ease, which is satisfying in itself, but the individual kill doesn't feel nearly as satisfying as it does in KZ2. Part of it is because the hit reaction is just plain superior (and that is something I really hope we'll see in the next IW COD, along with some new ideas on enemy behavior), but also because the gunplay actually involves handling what seems like a real physical object.

As for World at War, I downloaded the demo but the 360 croaked before I even had a chance to play it. I'll give it a shot when the replacement arrives.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 17, 2009, 08:49:04 AM
at the palace... nearly done.
let us know when you take a shit as well, important stuff
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 17, 2009, 08:51:24 AM
footage? you mean... input streams... right?
I was actually thinking they were talking about full on footage of the game being played, which was my mistake for skimming over the thread.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 17, 2009, 10:15:47 AM
Quote
let us know when you take a shit as well, important stuff

indeed it is!

so , i'm at the final encounter.

Have to say, i take it back regarding the COD3 and 5 comparisons because this utter fucking garbage of a level makes the turgid designs of COD3 and 5 look like the work of some master architect.

Sorry Sfags, this game is a mess as far as i'm concerned. The linear shuffling through levels, throwing you behind turrets too often, tossing in the obligatory shuffle-this-way-in-your-vehicle screams all the worst parts of the bad COD series and i STILL don't see anything other than COD. Same picking people off behind cover whilst dealing with rushing enemies, over and over and over. I shall try harder difficulties IF i can be arsed killing the ghei norweigan helgast quench.

Best looking game on PS3, confirmed bog standard single player experience.

Also - given that you do everything with Rico (easily one of the most annoying characters ever to have cpu cycles devoted to them), i am baffled as to why there is no Coop play. baffled.

Just tried online, that was great. Only a short game, but hey. That was much better.



it's not anything like COD unless you're speaking in extremely broad terms

you could say every shooter is like COD in that sense

and the graphics aren't just "the best on PS3", they're the best on consoles.  it's not even debatable...Guerrilla blew everyone away.

you're a disgusting little xfag
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 17, 2009, 10:46:17 AM
It's really sad to see just how jaded people have become.  It almost seems that people around here are only playing games to prove those on the "opposite side" incorrect.  People around evilbore swear up and down that it's all tongue and cheek, but I don't buy that anymore.  It's pretty clear that people have taken sides and are playing games with expectations based entirely upon combating the loud opinions of a certain group on message boards. 

S-fegs, x-fegs, etc etc.  Everyone who has selected a side has become unreasonable and goes out of their way to either massively over hype the things available for THEIR console while trashing the hell out of the "competition".  I can understand having a preference, but I do not understand the point in playing this little game.  I've been guilty of this in the past but have ultimately realized that there is no point in acting this way.  I hate the Wii and all that it stands for, as an example, but still purchase and enjoy the few games that DO interest me.  I play them without considering what the message boards are going to say about it.  It's fun to argue about them later, but I don't enter the games with an opinion already formed (which I believe a lot of people around here are doing).

This doesn't apply specifically to Killzone 2 by any means, by the way, it's just another instance in which I've noticed it.  I myself don't think KZ2 is a AAA experience by any means, but it's still a solid shooter.  If something like this can be called "crap", well, our standards have run out of control.

Ah well, carry on.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 17, 2009, 10:55:27 AM
How is it not a AAA experience?  Enough with this elitist, contrarian garbage.  It's despicable.  The campaign is awesome and the multi-player mode is one of the best of this gen -- my personal favorite, right up there with COD4. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Draft on March 17, 2009, 11:13:51 AM
Little late for meltdowns for gameplay impression meltdowns.

And too early for first month NPD meltdowns.

We're in the eye of the meltdown.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: demi on March 17, 2009, 11:14:21 AM
It's really sad to see just how jaded people have become.  It almost seems that people around here are only playing games to prove those on the "opposite side" incorrect.  People around evilbore swear up and down that it's all tongue and cheek, but I don't buy that anymore.  It's pretty clear that people have taken sides and are playing games with expectations based entirely upon combating the loud opinions of a certain group on message boards. 

S-distinguished effete fellows, x-distinguished effete fellows, etc etc.  Everyone who has selected a side has become unreasonable and goes out of their way to either massively over hype the things available for THEIR console while trashing the hell out of the "competition".  I can understand having a preference, but I do not understand the point in playing this little game.  I've been guilty of this in the past but have ultimately realized that there is no point in acting this way.  I hate the Wii and all that it stands for, as an example, but still purchase and enjoy the few games that DO interest me.  I play them without considering what the message boards are going to say about it.  It's fun to argue about them later, but I don't enter the games with an opinion already formed (which I believe a lot of people around here are doing).

This doesn't apply specifically to Killzone 2 by any means, by the way, it's just another instance in which I've noticed it.  I myself don't think KZ2 is a AAA experience by any means, but it's still a solid shooter.  If something like this can be called "crap", well, our standards have run out of control.

Ah well, carry on.

Ok 60fps-cigarillo, thanks for the hypocritical post

Carry on
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: archie4208 on March 17, 2009, 11:18:21 AM
arguing about videogames rofl
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 17, 2009, 11:31:48 AM
How is it like COD3 and 5 and not 4?  I like how you cleverly left that out.  If it's like COD3/5, then it's also like 4 because they all play the same.

You already made your mind up about this game before it even dropped.

And no, it's really not like COD3/4/5 at all.

1.  There's a sense of weight and realism to the movement and gunplay.

2.  The enemies take way more bullets to drop than in the COD campaigns.

3.  There's a 1st person cover system that you use extensively.  I used it just as much as I used the cover in Gears.

It's nothing like COD save for it being in the same genre.

You're vile.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 17, 2009, 11:38:28 AM
Quote
and i do , do i?
I don't know, do you?  It comes off that way, but then again, a lot of the things I post are misconstrued as well.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 17, 2009, 11:43:14 AM
How many people really do that though, dark10x? Seems like WrikaWrek and dcharlie to me, and Green Man?

And even those people don't hype up the exclusives on their favorite console. How much shit do Halo 3, Gears, Fable, Rare, Ninja Blade get around here? The favorite 360 exclusives on this site seem to be Crackdown and Saints Row 1. Hardly the exclusives fanboys should pick to win arguments with their opposition.


I hope I don't get lumped in with this phantom group of fake game players just because I think KZ2's single player is up-and-down. No one accuses me of that when I talk to them about it IRL. I definitely don't think it's much like COD outside of the few enemy distinguished mentally-challenged fellow spawns I discovered. It's more like Gears if someone forgot to put effort into the cover button and situational variety.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 17, 2009, 11:46:09 AM
I don't know, just feels like a trend lately.  Then again, like I said, I end up saying a lot of things online that I don't really feel strongly about "IRL".  It just kind of comes with posting on a message board, I suppose.  I wasn't really singling out Killzone 2.  I just happened to post it in this thread.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 17, 2009, 12:26:40 PM
and i do , do i?

Alright dude, you tell me how this looks. After playing the demo (which you had already whined about plenty after playing it at TGS), you made post after post complaining about the lack of difficulty options, yet you decided to stick with that same difficulty setting that buggered you so much before. Now you're disappointed in the gameplay and compare it to COD3 (which is just fucking ridiculous), even knowing full well that you could have yourself changed the game experience quite a bit by simply opting for a different difficulty setting.

Like COD. Get the fuck out of here.  :lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: bork on March 17, 2009, 08:23:32 PM
well, yes, that is fair.

So let me restate : the game is a run of the mill shooter that plays and has level designs akin to a COD on the normal difficulty level.

I will try a higher difficultly level tonight, as i said, i'm getting the odd 20 mins to play games so i wanted to see things through to the end as i have RE5 sitting here.

I'm not dropping the COD thing,  it feels exactly like COD to me and that isn't going to change unless the higher difficult injects some magic.

Man, fuck this shit, get outta this thread, and go play RE5!
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 17, 2009, 08:28:03 PM
Well, comparing it to COD at all tells me that you are either out of your  mind, or have a seriously warped up view of COD. The gun handling, cover based gameplay and enemy behavior even on normal sees to that it is made different from any COD I have played. There are scenarios that are absolutely of the COD (and every other war-themed game) style, but the point to point combat plays nothing like it. Add a vertical quality to the encounters, and it becomes a hell of a lot more reminiscent of Rainbow Six Vegas than of COD.

That said, there are some things I wished that they had copied from COD4. The combat moments are generally much more satisfying, but it doesn't have a whole lot of memorable levels, like the AC-130 mission or the sniper mission in COD4. And every damned shooter needs a few segments where you call in air support, that should be a standard from here on.

Man, fuck this shit, get outta this thread, and go play RE5!

I feel so spoiled. I have Dawn of War II and RE5 sitting here, and I just can not decide which to play first.  :-\  :hyper
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: demi on March 17, 2009, 08:34:27 PM
RTS games suck shit. Problem solved
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Van Cruncheon on March 17, 2009, 08:41:02 PM
re5 looks loads better

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 17, 2009, 09:08:53 PM
I don't know about that CoD comparison; it kinda reminds me of Killzone 1, just much better.

The CoD comparison is probably the closest with another series because the premise is similar, I just don't really understand to directly compare it to that closest series.  I guess that's just how it is; CoD was the Medal of Honor clone way back when too (thought I don't think the KZ series destroys it's predecessors like CoD did, at least not on the multiplayer side of things.)  But just comparing them on the enjoyment of the campaigns, I would say CoD1 and 2 are on par with, if not better than, KZ2.  CoD4 single player was awful and the demo of World at War I played the other day made me feel good about my decision to pass on that game.  Multiplayer in CoD4 is still amazing and KZ2 can't really compete with it; I probably enjoyed the CoDWaW multiplayer beta more than my time with KZ2 online.

re5 looks loads better

this I might agree with

KZ2 is still more impressive technically and all that, but some parts of RE5 are insane with how good they look.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 17, 2009, 09:15:22 PM
Yes, i know there is a first person cover system, but the same darting in and out of cover happens in COD just without stickying to the walls the system will let you.

Which puts it well apart from COD (and again closer to Rainbow Six Vegas). Not just the cover system itself (which I personally didn't like all that much) but the way enemies actually use cover sensibly, and the fact that you can force them to adopt new strategies by chipping away at their cover, it's non-existent in COD on any difficulty. Enemy behavior (yes, even on normal) and gunplay makes it fundamentally different. COD does a great job pushing intensity and making you feel like you're in a hellish warzone, but there is rarely a sense that enemies have much individual battle (or survival) competence, or many combat abilities beyond rage and suicide tactics. Which is absolutely fine as IW does this very well, but there's really no comparing the two.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 17, 2009, 09:22:07 PM
Multiplayer in CoD4 is still amazing and KZ2 can't really compete with it

It's a bit frustrating, though, because I honestly can't pinpoint what it is that makes it so good. In-game rewards have something to do with it, but that becomes less amazing as you learn to rack up 7+ killstreaks with ease. I think a lot of the things that annoy me in SP actually enhance the MP, like for example the canned death animations and lack of response to hits.

this I might agree with

KZ2 is still more impressive technically and all that, but some parts of RE5 are insane with how good they look.

Haven't played RE5 beyond the demo, so that may be true enough. Although at this point, barring technical issues or blatant shortcuts, I'm happy enough with both the technical and the artistic achievements in most high profile games that it's all starting to blur into "looks damned good." Whether it looks "better" or"worse" than the next big game is becoming irrelevant since games tend to look damned good these days.

But then again, I also thought the Riddick demo looked good. And Banjo looks damned good too, 1/3 of the time.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 18, 2009, 08:45:02 AM
re5 looks loads better



:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 18, 2009, 09:20:40 AM
The hyperbole on both sides will only serve to push the two opinions even further in the opposite direction.  You can't force someone who dislikes a game to suddenly change their opinion.

That's really the problem with this forum is that every alternate opinion is met with laughter or insults which only further fuels the disagreement.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 18, 2009, 06:44:58 PM
Multiplayer rocks period
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on March 23, 2009, 10:44:37 PM
I just tried out the demo for about 10 mins this morning.  What's all the hoopla about? 

The game screams "generic shooter" and the controls are uncomfortable, even by console FPS standards.

Does the final game play a lot better?  There's no way I'm spending $60 for 10 more hours of what was in the demo. 

I guess the graphics are pretty good for a console game but I'm getting sick of the muddy colors and blurry graphical filters. 

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:02:01 PM
Try the final game, on Veteran difficulty. It changes the dynamics of combat quite a bit. If you aren't into it by the third level or so, then you probably won't get into it at all. There are some attempts at breaking up the action, but only one of those are actually great (the Suljeva downtempo battles), with the rest merely being sort of there. Generally, the game focuses on immediate combat, which it does very well.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on March 23, 2009, 11:21:53 PM
My review of this game:

It's an FPS and therefore is lame because all FPSs are lame, the end.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 23, 2009, 11:23:56 PM
This is true
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on March 23, 2009, 11:25:12 PM
:bow me, cutting through the murk with the laser-sharp beam of truth
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: fistfulofmetal on March 24, 2009, 01:15:07 AM
killzone 2 is the rare case where the multiplayer is much more interesting than the dull single player.

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 24, 2009, 02:48:26 AM
Finally started this.  Did the first level and I think I enjoyed it?  It has a really nice cinematic feel in motion which separates it from all the other fps and kind of makes up for the textures being PS3-weak.  It's also really hard and intense like you're in the middle of an overwhelming battle.  Good pacing.

OTOH, the controls aren't very good.  Why did they not make cover attach/attach-off button?  I'm using Alternate 2 and the game is so glitchy about holding L2+UP+L1+R1 to shoot.  WTF why do I have to press 4 inputs to shoot a guy while in cover?!?  Because of this I'm just not using cover much and it's causing me to die a lot.  >_<  Also the tank controls at the end of the level were terrible.  I couldn't drive in the directions I wanted to so I just kind of stood around and shot. 

I also don't like how many bullets it takes to kill a guy, but then again they are wearing a ton of armor so it makes sense.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on March 24, 2009, 03:05:17 AM

killzone 2 is the rare case where the multiplayer is much more interesting than the dull single player.

Really? Many would argue that MP makes every game more fun. 

WTF why do I have to press 4 inputs to shoot a guy while in cover?!? 

:rofl

I think I'm gonna stick with Fear 2 for my FPS needs. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 24, 2009, 03:12:43 AM
Use the standard control configuration if cover is important.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 24, 2009, 09:22:13 AM
Quote
OTOH, the controls aren't very good.  Why did they not make cover attach/attach-off button?  I'm using Alternate 2 and the game is so glitchy about holding L2+UP+L1+R1 to shoot.  WTF why do I have to press 4 inputs to shoot a guy while in cover?!?  Because of this I'm just not using cover much and it's causing me to die a lot.
The solution I use is simply letting go of L2 and holding L1 while firing.  When you want to return to cover, simply press L2 again while letting off L1.  There's rarely a need to actually hold both button simultaneously (unless you want to peak out to the left or right, but in those cases you simply don't have to use iron sights).  Try not to get stuck in the rut of just hanging back and trying to pick off enemies at a distance.  While you can choose to play this way, it's a lot more fun to keep moving while trying to close in on the enemy.  They actually react fairly well to your movements and it feels pretty dynamic as a result.

The default control scheme is clearly the way they want you to play it, but I much prefer alternate 2.  I also agree that, what makes it feel special, is the way everything moves.  It makes a tremendous difference.  The animation on everything is out of this world and all of the various post processing techniques really elevate the experience even if it is a fairly basic FPS (which isn't necessarily a bad thing as far as I'm concerned).

Fortunately, the tank only shows up in that first mission.  Furthermore, I feel the second half of the game is significantly better than the first, so if you are enjoying it thus far, you should get more out of it later.

Quote
I think I'm gonna stick with Fear 2 for my FPS needs.
FEAR 2, really?  :\
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 24, 2009, 01:27:05 PM
I don't think I even have an FPS need anymore. It might just be an unusually persistent case of temporary shooter fatigue, but I honestly feel like I've shot all the video game opponents that I'll ever need to shoot. It's not really all thanks to KZ2, but the combination of it being purely a shooter, the gunplay and resulting hit reactions and the overall warzone atmosphere pretty much overfilled it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 24, 2009, 02:21:49 PM
I'm always in the mood for first person shooting, though.  These days, while everyone loves to draw comparisons between various titles, they really ARE all fairly different from one another even when they share certain elements.  I think first and third person shooters, over the past few years, have never been better.

We've seen a lot of refinements over the years, so it's not as if the genre has stood still either.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 24, 2009, 02:30:10 PM
They seem to blend these days, despite their differences. Probably has less to do with the format than it does the whole shoot them dead formula, and honestly, how ridiculously well some of these games do it. The only one I have that seems resistant to this is Crysis, which would make sense considering how radically different it really is.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 24, 2009, 02:58:58 PM
There's still more variation today than there was in the past, however.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 24, 2009, 03:04:13 PM
Absolutely. I think I'm just numbed to the effects at the moment, probably because of the quality of the skirmishes and warzones in games. In less cynical terms, I think I'm just plain full and satisfied with shooting adventures in the various warzones that the better developers like to craft.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: NME on March 24, 2009, 03:19:07 PM
My review of this game:

It's an FPS and therefore is lame because all FPSs are lame, the end.

Your style.

I like it.

But, I feel like I should at least give Killzone 2 a try. So, I will, provided Gamefly ever sends me this game. And they shouldn't be doing so any time soon, because I have yet to get Street Fighter IV (and about a dozen other games I've got ahead of KZ2).
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on March 24, 2009, 05:22:37 PM
FEAR 2, really?  :\

Really. 

How many epic-war shooters have we gotten in this gen?  zzzzzz

It's not just KZ2.  I couldn't get myself to play COD:WAW or Gears 2 unless it was with another friend. 

Add to that the fact that I hate playing shooters with the PS3 controller and I don't see why I shouldn't be playing Fear 2 instead.  At least, it's trying to do a different type of shooter, like Far Cry 2. 

Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 24, 2009, 05:52:08 PM
Yeah, you're not going to find anything more than a military themed shooter here. I'd argue it's one of the best at what it does (and I think it's easily the new high water mark for "epic war" stuff), but it's purely a military-themed shooter. The lameness of the story presentation doesn't do much to shake things up.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 25, 2009, 09:11:55 AM
FEAR 2, really?  :\

Really. 

How many epic-war shooters have we gotten in this gen?  zzzzzz

It's not just KZ2.  I couldn't get myself to play COD:WAW or Gears 2 unless it was with another friend. 

Add to that the fact that I hate playing shooters with the PS3 controller and I don't see why I shouldn't be playing Fear 2 instead.  At least, it's trying to do a different type of shooter, like Far Cry 2. 
I've finished FEAR 2 myself and while it had its entertaining moments it also suffered from terribly repetitive level design and game play.  They toss you into impossibly labyrinth environments and essentially keep repeating the same few encounters over and over again.  With the mouse, it's simply a matter of running into a room, engaging slow motion, and clicking on each enemy.  The game demands very little from the player and becomes dull as a result.  It's a step up from the original game (which was beyond turgid), but still suffers from many of its problems.

I wouldn't really lump World at War in with Gears 2 or Killzone, though, as it literally is nothing more than a non stop, stupidly noisy shooting gallery.  You move forward a bit, take out a bunch of small targets from a distance until the game says you can move, and then do it again.  I received a free copy of the PC version and tried to play it, but damn, it's even more repetitive and boring than Call of Duty 4.  Gears and Killzone are more about smaller skirmishes balanced out with the occasional larger battle.  The problem with the CoD games lies in the pacing.  The constant stream of explosions and yelling in CoD wears on the player and eventually becomes completely routine.  This wasn't the case back when MoH-Allied Assault was first released, which was one of the first games to attempt such an experience.  The Normandy landing was rather special and unique within the context of that game.  When developers decided to attempt to deliver that type of experience throughout an entire game, however, they completely ruined the pacing.

Anyways, Far Cry 2 is an interesting mention.  I picked that up around release and tried very hard to get into it, but ultimately found myself unable to enjoy it due to the fact that, again, it was overly repetitive.  They repeat the same basic missions throughout the game and compound this with the lengthy travel times using vehicles that are no fun to drive while dealing with a constant stream of nearly identical checkpoint situations.  The experience became completely rote after a while.  There is always going to be some degree of repetition within any game, of course, but the best games provide a constant stream of fresh challenges for the player.  Assassin's Creed suffered from the same problems, really.  I'm curious to hear what hooked you in FC2, however, as I'm still wanting to go back to the game some day and give it another shot.  The concept is very appealing.  If only they allowed co-op...
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Andowsky on March 25, 2009, 12:10:35 PM
My thoughts on Killzone 2:

Short campaign that is scripted and generic, much like Gears 2.
Controls that are not responsive and downright awful in some regards.
Amazing graphics and sound.
No co-op?  :lol
Only 8 maps, some of which are completely worthless to someone like me who prefers smaller 16 player games.
Laughably small selection of weapons for multiplayer.
Very few modes for multiplayer as well.
Hit detection is wonky, death lag reeks of shitty PS2 online shooters.
Classes are cool and add a little depth to the game.

I'm almost at 20 hours online IIRC and it's already starting to get a little boring.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on March 26, 2009, 05:24:59 PM
So I tried the Killzone 2 demo again and I liked it more the 2nd time.  I think it's 'cause I slowed down a little and stopped trying to play it like a COD game.  The controls still felt clunky but I adjusted for them by taking cover more often. 

KZ2 really is quite plesant to look at.  The artistic style and technical effects come together in a very coherent manner although I wish they had dial back a bit on the post-processing.  I don't know how to explain it exactly but it's like vaseline has been smeared over the graphics which make the game look too soft. 

I don't know if it was intentional on the part of the developer but I especially like how you can easily spot the enemies by their red eyes.   One thing that annoys me sometimes in war games like COD and MOH is that it's hard to differentiate between allies and enemies. 

KZ2 is definitely on my list now although I probably won't be picking it up until I can spot it for $40 or so. 

I've finished FEAR 2 myself and while it had its entertaining moments it also suffered from terribly repetitive level design and game play.  They toss you into impossibly labyrinth environments and essentially keep repeating the same few encounters over and over again.  With the mouse, it's simply a matter of running into a room, engaging slow motion, and clicking on each enemy.  The game demands very little from the player and becomes dull as a result.  It's a step up from the original game (which was beyond turgid), but still suffers from many of its problems.

I don't wanna say that you played the game wrong but more than a few reviewers commented that Fear 2 was probably meant to be played on the harder setting.  When I played the demo, I had no need to use slow-mo at all on the normal setting.  Based on what I've read, I assume that's pretty much how the final game would play on normal. 

What kind of problems did you have with Fear 1?  The 1st game, imo, is one of the best shooters in the last 5 years.  Although Fear 1 did have some glaring flaws, like repetitive environments and a story that went nowhere, the combat and atmosphere were consistently involving enough to make me look past them. 

Quote
Anyways, Far Cry 2 is an interesting mention.  I picked that up around release and tried very hard to get into it, but ultimately found myself unable to enjoy it due to the fact that, again, it was overly repetitive.  They repeat the same basic missions throughout the game and compound this with the lengthy travel times using vehicles that are no fun to drive while dealing with a constant stream of nearly identical checkpoint situations.  The experience became completely rote after a while.  There is always going to be some degree of repetition within any game, of course, but the best games provide a constant stream of fresh challenges for the player.  Assassin's Creed suffered from the same problems, really.  I'm curious to hear what hooked you in FC2, however, as I'm still wanting to go back to the game some day and give it another shot.  The concept is very appealing.  If only they allowed co-op...

I enjoyed FC2 because it deviated from the standard FPS in so many ways.  The environment, gun mechanics, upgrading system, buddies, all felt fresh.  Although I could see how some parts of FC2 might frustrate you, I find that it's a game that gives as much as you're willing to put into it.  You're responsible for creating your own fun.  Most of the fun I had were from creating new ways to approach missions or experimenting on how to get by checkpoints in the quickest manner.  FC2 gives the player lots of flexibilities on how the challenges can be met and that's something very few shooters do.   
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 26, 2009, 05:32:14 PM
Far Cry 2 was excellent as long as you stuck with fighting from afar. It was a lot of fun putting a whole base under siege with just a sniper rifle. That approach also kept the clowniness of the opponents a bit hidden. It was a deeply flawed game, but when it worked, it really worked. Most games tend to give you an inoffensive, flat experience, and I guess I appreciate Far Cry 2 for providing enough peaks to make the steep dives into the shitpits tolerable.

I think I've said as much in this thread, but I really appreciated using Far Cry 2 as a breather game when the non-stop personal combat of KZ2 became a bit much. Made me really appreciate things about both games.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 26, 2009, 10:36:24 PM
I don't know if it's because I had low expectations from all the hate on forums, but I am absolutely loving this game.  I just cleared the 4th mission where you blow the power plant up at the end and now I'm at the bridge level.

The lighting (pre-baked I'm guessing?) with the lightning flashing is SO GOOD.  That was such a smart visual design choice to have it at night with lightning going every few seconds.  That and the post-processing effects make the atmosphere pretty darn impressive.  2nd to only Crysis IMO.

The gameplay feels awesome once I stopped taking cover and stopped sniping.  Just playing it like Doom3-ish, I'm having so much fun running around corners and blowing up entire armies with my SMG.  I love how the enemies are scared of you and actually react to your attacks.  This makes the best defensive a pure offense since you just run at them at start unloading and they go into hit animations or run and stop firing at you.  Definitely gives it a feel unlike most other shooters.  The flamethrower is pretty useful indoors for the same reason.  It's nice wielding a powerful flamethrower after RE5 :P  The only weapon I'm not digging is the shotgun.  Ironically it seems too slow between shots to be useful for run n' gun where normally shotgun would be king.  SMG > Assault Rifle seems to be the best for me at least for storming places mixed with grenade throws here and there.

At this point just going from the SP I have no problem with all the 9/10 reviews.  The game is just a blast and looks awesome.  If it only improves then I think I'm going to enjoy this whole campaign.  Sure it could have a plot (I have no idea what is going on as I didn't play KZ1 or Liberation), but that's what 10/10 fps games like Half-life are for. 

Also I didn't really play it pre-patch so I can't tell how much they've been improved, but I don't have any problems with controls for run n' gunning.  It's only if I try to snipe with L1 from a distance that I have a hard time killing guys, but that's more because guys take like 50 shots to the head from a distance just to kill one guy and there are usually like 20 of them.  Compare that to running up and taking out 2-3 guys with a single round from close-up and it just feels like the game is telling you "don't snipe; go shoot them in their face," Which I'm fine with. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 28, 2009, 06:51:11 PM
My only problem with this game is that it's kind of too hard at times.  Like I can take a rocket to the face and still survive, yet sometimes I'll be running around in a battle and just INSTANTLY DIE and I don't even know wtf happened.  It gets a little frustrating when you have to do a part over and over and hope you don't die so you can actually hit the next checkpoint.

Also the whole "you can't see when you're hit" thing just makes it harder.  I had a bitch of a time on the helicopter boss because once I started getting hit by missiles it was all grey and red and smoke and debris and I couldn't even tell where the boss was to take cover in the opposite direction.

Between Resistance and this it's like Sony is punishing gamers for playing FPS on PS3 by making their FPS games FAR harder than MS published shooters.  Halo and Gears are very mainstream friendly and not frustrating on the default difficulties.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 29, 2009, 03:58:05 AM
This game is more Metal Gear Solid 4 than MGS4 was.  The whole "no place to hide" thing is in full effect in some of these levels.  I just finished the village level in the wasteland and you never feel safe no matter where you are and how many guys you've killed.  I swear I'd go through a section and take out EVERYONE, yet I'd be taking cover from some guys ahead of me and 1-hit die out of nowhere from being shot in the back or the side from some guy I have no idea existed.  You die way too fast in this game and there's no good hit indicator to show where you are being killed from.  It's so maddening to keep getting to the end of a section (which is challenging everytime) and then die in 1/2 second out of nowhere and have to do it all again.

I think the level design is real good and challenging and it's definitely satisfying when you pull it off, but I suck at this and the dying 5-10 times between every checkpoint has gotten me closer to throwing my controller than any game in recent memory.  You get so mad being killed by these fuckers that when you kill them afterwards you are full of vengance and it's very satisfying to mow dozens of them down.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: TEEEPO on March 29, 2009, 04:54:45 AM
alot of your complaints are what i had in the early game but as i moved further along, the game got progressivly esier for me on the veteran difficulty. i think i died a total of 8 times on that chapter.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 29, 2009, 05:00:58 AM
The game got easier when I got the lightning gun that auto-aimed and killed everyone instantly and had unlimited ammo  :D
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: cool breeze on March 29, 2009, 11:41:00 AM
the lightning gun is awesome.  It's gives you the same feeling you got when you first used the hammer of dawn in Gears, except GG didn't bother putting any limitations on it, so you just stroll by the level killing things without break.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 29, 2009, 12:42:05 PM
I suspect Bebpo will become frustrated as hell by the second half of the final mission.  I actually thought the game was quite easy on normal up until that point.  Unlike some, however, I thought the final challenge was actually pretty good and reminded me of some sort of "horde mode", in a way (dealing with unique waves of enemies).  It certainly became frustrating at points, however.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 29, 2009, 08:20:02 PM
Very good FPS, but I'm not going to talk about what happened when you entered those palace doors.  In my mind the game ends when you make that long, intense push to get to the palace and finally reach the doors and then the credits roll and say GOOD JON, YOU WIN THE WAR. GAME OVER, YEAH.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 30, 2009, 12:01:04 AM
I suspect Bebpo will become frustrated as hell by the second half of the final mission.  I actually thought the game was quite easy on normal up until that point.  Unlike some, however, I thought the final challenge was actually pretty good and reminded me of some sort of "horde mode", in a way (dealing with unique waves of enemies).  It certainly became frustrating at points, however.

Horde mode has checkpoints lol
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 30, 2009, 09:21:36 AM
I actually enjoyed the ending and the final segments.  While I prefer Gears of War 2 overall, that's one area where I felt the game totally lost it.  The final segment riding the Brumak was terrible (piss easy and completely different from normal gameplay) and then the final boss was a complete joke.

Quote
Horde mode has checkpoints lol
So does the last area of KZ2.

Quote
Again, i'd say nothing like Horde at all, EVERY BIT like, say, the last part of COD5
If the enemies never moved and just stood behind a wall with the occasional suicide attack, I might agree.  What made the last area of KZ2 difficult is the fact that enemies did rush you.  You couldn't sit around and try to pick everyone off.  Each checkpoint brought a different series of enemies into play (which is why I likened it to horde mode).  By the end, you have many different types of enemies attacking you in very different ways which forces you to handle all of these different attacks simultaneously.  That doesn't really happen in CoD.

Quote
I don't wanna say that you played the game wrong but more than a few reviewers commented that Fear 2 was probably meant to be played on the harder setting.  When I played the demo, I had no need to use slow-mo at all on the normal setting.  Based on what I've read, I assume that's pretty much how the final game would play on normal. 
I've spent time with both hard and normal difficulties and I really thought it was too easy on both settings.  The main difference I found is that you generally have fewer medical supplies on hard (as you need to use them more often).  This isn't a problem, however, as there was always a surplus on normal which forced you to skip over a lot of health packs.  I really think there is a decent game in there, however, but Monolith just has to work on their level designs.  They segment each area into something so impossibly large that it becomes completely unrealistic.  I never felt as if I was exploring an actual building, rather, moving through a linear series of hallways and rooms.  The fact that the demos for both FEAR games literally mix and match various bits from throughout the game into a single experience should serve as proof that their level design doesn't take realistic structures into account.  You could not do this in most games.

Quote
What kind of problems did you have with Fear 1?  The 1st game, imo, is one of the best shooters in the last 5 years.  Although Fear 1 did have some glaring flaws, like repetitive environments and a story that went nowhere, the combat and atmosphere were consistently involving enough to make me look past them. 
I suppose the problem I had with FEAR is that it simply failed to do anything particularly well to the point of satisfaction.  I was able to enjoy FEAR 2 more simply because it felt better to play.  FEAR 2 had some dull level designs, but feels like Half-Life 2 in the comparison to the original FEAR.  There was absolutely NO variety and the levels themselves were painfully boring and ugly to explore.  I still can't believe they released the game as they did.  Furthermore, the actual act of shooting the weapons was dulled by the ugly weapon models, poor animation, choppy camera motion, and lack of iron sights.  So you have extremely boring level designs, a story that goes nowhere, combat that is nearly ruined by presentation issues, and lack of enemy variety.  One or two of those would not ruin the game, but from my point of view, it fell short in every area.  I didn't even really find the atmosphere to be particularly engaging.  After the likes of NOLF1 and 2, I thought Monolith really dropped the ball with FEAR.  Their current approach to level design, whether a limitation in their Jupiter engine or something else entirely, needs to go.  I'm tired of boxed in hallways and buildings that serve as walls of a maze.

Quote
I enjoyed FC2 because it deviated from the standard FPS in so many ways.  The environment, gun mechanics, upgrading system, buddies, all felt fresh.  Although I could see how some parts of FC2 might frustrate you, I find that it's a game that gives as much as you're willing to put into it.  You're responsible for creating your own fun.  Most of the fun I had were from creating new ways to approach missions or experimenting on how to get by checkpoints in the quickest manner.  FC2 gives the player lots of flexibilities on how the challenges can be met and that's something very few shooters do.   
This is an interesting one as I really love certain aspects of FC2.  I haven't made enough progress with the game to really pass judgment, I suppose, but I have such a difficult time getting into it.  I think the world design is partially at fault.  They present an open world game, but it actually feels as if you are constricted by the rocky hills surrounding the entire level.  I feel as if this really placed a barrier on the game world and made it feel more like a maze than an open area.  I'm still planning to get back to this and really try to enjoy it because it seems like something I would dig.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 30, 2009, 12:13:41 PM
Checkpoints are few and far between. There is no checkpoint from the part where you rush the upper balcony, take down all the regular guys who are spawning, and taking down the rocket guys. There could have been 1 or 2 more checkpoints in that span. Also I'm pretty sure the balcony-rushing checkpoint does not survive a system restart. You have to start off a bit before that.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 30, 2009, 12:28:08 PM
Checkpoints are few and far between. There is no checkpoint from the part where you rush the upper balcony, take down all the regular guys who are spawning, and taking down the rocket guys. There could have been 1 or 2 more checkpoints in that span. Also I'm pretty sure the balcony-rushing checkpoint does not survive a system restart. You have to start off a bit before that.
Yes, but I actually enjoyed it.  :\  Reminds me of playing Metal Slug back in the day when you had to perfect your tactics for each individual section/wave.  Now, if the entire game had followed this mold, it would have ruined it, but I thought it was a nice way to finish things up.  Frustration can lead to distaste in many people, however, so I'm not surprised that people hate it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 30, 2009, 01:20:49 PM
The problem I had was you are busy finding a good safe point to fight off the normal waves and you're taking them out (which takes 10 mins) and then like EIGHT rocket guys show up who turtle on the other side. 

Now if the blast radius of the rockets wasn't HUGE, you could find a safe pillar or corner and just pop out and snipe/shoot one at a time until they are all dead.  But KZ2 has the largest damage radius I've ever seen from rocket blasts and even if the rockets land nowhere near you, if several of them do at the same time you're dead. 

I think the main problem actually came down to that aiming in KZ2 is more difficult than most FPS games because of the loose controls.  This was fine for most of the game, but it made this section in the room very frustrating and near impossible.  By the time I aligned my aim to shoot 1 rocket guy, I had 6 rockets flying in my face from the other guys.

I ended up winning by launching hand grenades from each side behind the debris and luckily take out 2-3 of the rocket guys on each side with one throw from each side of the room.  Then I shot off the remaining one guy with an assault rifle.


Also it wasn't just the horde rush.  I had no problems with the first checkpoint when you were on the ground with enemies everywhere.  That was fun and didn't seem that much harder than the earlier stages.  It was the upstairs rocket part + THE FINAL BOSS WHO WAS TERRIBLE.

Two things about the final boss sucked from a design standpoint:
1) If you run out of ammo (I did), KZ2 is the SLOWEST FPS for picking up a new weapon.  OMG, you can't even run over a weapon and grab it while you are running.  You have to run up to it, STOP, hold square, then start running while loading it.  Unfortunately if the final boss has gone into teleport -> knife rush, teleport -> knife rush, cycle, when you STOP to hold square you die instantly from his knife rush.

2) If your 5.1 isn't very good (I was playing it on a different setup to play during the day in a dark room), it can be VERY DIFFICULT to hear where he is spawning.  This led to many times where I was running around and ran backwards into him with a knife and instant death.

Overall I didn't think it was the whole game that was difficult.  Going back through mission select I cleared most missions/areas with zero deaths.  It's more that certain checkpoints had high difficulty spikes and that your weapons suck.  A good example of this is the cruiser level.  The first checkpoint when you get to the top of the elevator and there's one friendly behind a crate and like 2 waves of 6 guys come through a wall on the opposite end.  this should have been easy.  In my head it's as simple as throwing a grenade when they all rush out and then taking cover at the start and picking off whoever remains when they come at you.  In reality this took me like 10 deaths and a lot of frustration RIGHT OFF THE BAT when the stage started.  The grenades wouldn't kill them (I don't even understand how that works.  I threw and HIT huge groups of 5-7 guys multiple times in the game with grenades and never got the multi-person grenade kill achievement because I guess it just didn't do enough damage to kill them @_@) and so they just keep charging and throwing lightning grenades back where we start so I'd have to move forward to avoid instant death from that and then there'd be like 3-4 guys shooting me at an angle that hit me even behind cover.  Eventually a grenade took out enough of them that a bum rush was barely able to take out the rest, but a simple situation like that should not have been a choke point.  After that I didn't die once for the rest of the entire level, so it was just that spike RIGHT AT THE START of the stage, which was frustrating.

Now going off that, things that made those parts harder than they were:
1)  Your accuracy SUCKS in KZ2 with any non-sniper rifle.  If you are standing 5-10 feet from a guy it takes an entire clip of unloading an assault rifle to kill him for certain because the aim spreads apart so fast while holding shoot down that probably only about 25% of the bullets are actually hitting the guy.  Maybe Guerilla wanted to make a realistic gun porn game, but the realism of accuracy makes it less fun.  Especially since these guys can take so much damage.  You'll shoot them and think you've killed them and then they'll get back up and start shooting at you again.  I ended up melee-ing a lot of people to death because at least when you keep smacking them you know they are DEAD.  I was also forced to use melee a bunch because after several encounters where I bum rush a guy and shoot him from a foot away with all my bullets and run out and he IS STILL ALIVE AND STARTS SMACKING ME...yeah, not good.  (Also want to mention as an example of how bad the accuracy/damage scaling is:  They made an achievement out of killing 2 or 3 guys with a single clip of 320 shots of assault rifle ammo.  I STILL HAVEN'T GOTTEN THAT even after trying purposely to do it standing 3-5 feet from a group of normal soldiers).

2)  Aiming just felt slightly off.  It wasn't a problem when you were playing the game rush style and always shooting from pretty close and jumping behind things to reload.  But it made picking off guys from a distance without a sniper rifle a chore.  Surprisingly the aim with the sniper rifle felt very precise, so maybe they purposely just screwed up all the other weapons.

3)  Not really important but the shotgun is the worst weapon in any fps I've played.  In a game like this where you can die in 1 second from close up enemy fire, how useful is a shotgun that doesn't even 100% 1 hit kill a guy a foot from your face?  I shoot them in the head and they react and then recover and then kill me before I can get a 2nd shot off.  @_@

4)  Like I said earlier, you die too quickly; the damage scaling seems uneven (sometimes I'll take a rocket HEAD ON and survive, other times I die from the blast radius of one that misses), and there is no decent indicator of where you are taking damage from.  The game needed a better indicator pointing in directions and after you die it should have had a kill cam so you at least know where to look out for next time.

Still, while it sounds like I'm being overly negative on the game it's because I thought everything else was AMAZING and one of the most visceral, intense FPS games I've ever played that was like nothing else out there.  The level design was brilliant, with sprawling levels that took you to all kinds of varied locations (within the same level) and felt connected the whole time.  The set pieces were really neat looking and usually varied in gameplay setups.  The graphics were the best I've seen on a console.  The great geometry + incredible use of motion blur and post-processing effects just blew me away.  The animation was INCREDIBLE.  The mech animation for the flying copter boss when it was swooping around all quickly is the defining graphical achievement for robots in games to date.  Same with the animation when the exo-skeleton first gets up.  The mecha design in general and overall art design was just through the roof in quality.  The AI was also extremely impressive and the overwhelming odds + smarts of the enemy flanks brought the intensity and feeling that you were fighting your way through a real warzone.  The gunplay felt extremely good and satisfying when you were taking down the enemies.   The bosses outside the final one were great.  Even the turret section in the sky gave a great Rebel Assault vibe with gorgeous visuals and decent turrent gameplay (was better than shooting asteroids >_<).  The length was also just right for a SP campaign and the collectibles and achievements add a bit to round it out.

So yeah, I really like the game but I think it has annoying flaws that will keep me from replaying it in the future.  I won't call them major or game-breaking flaws, but they are problems that hit the average skill fps gamer (I've never been too great at FPS games.  I just play them on their normal difficulty levels and finish them all) and frustrate the hell out of them at times.  The difficulty spikes were just very unbalanced and jumped far too high at times.  Hopefully Guerrilla takes the feedback in hand and for their next game makes the challenge a bit more even across the board.  If you want insanely difficult situations, then leave them for the higher difficulty modes.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 30, 2009, 01:24:54 PM
3)  Not really important but the shotgun is the worst weapon in any fps I've played.  In a game like this where you can die in 1 second from close up enemy fire, how useful is a shotgun that doesn't even 100% 1 hit kill a guy a foot from your face?  I shoot them in the head and they react and then recover and then kill me before I can get a 2nd shot off.  @_@

Er, it makes heads splat. That's some 100% fatality rate right there.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on March 30, 2009, 01:24:59 PM
holy fuck


Anyway I don't remembe that choke point on the cruiser, but there's a really bad one in one of the cool parts of the last level. When you are doing that long run towards the palace in the middle act, there is a part where you have to climb some stairs while enemies are respawning on a central tower structure, and on the left side with some more stairs going down. There's really no tactical way to assault this position besides spamming grenades (a tactic which is ruined by respawning). If you had competent teammates or co-op maybe it'd be more workable.

Also that last part with all the barbed wire, the best tactic is to just run right past everyone and trigger a cutscene. No checkpoints there either, a ton of fun on veteran.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 30, 2009, 02:02:27 PM
3)  Not really important but the shotgun is the worst weapon in any fps I've played.  In a game like this where you can die in 1 second from close up enemy fire, how useful is a shotgun that doesn't even 100% 1 hit kill a guy a foot from your face?  I shoot them in the head and they react and then recover and then kill me before I can get a 2nd shot off.  @_@

Er, it makes heads splat. That's some 100% fatality rate right there.

Well, it never did for me :(  It usually took me 2 shots with a shotgun to kill a normal grunt from point-blank range.  Maybe I just wasn't aiming perfectly at their head.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 30, 2009, 02:10:26 PM
Quote
Er, it makes heads splat. That's some 100% fatality rate right there.
Yeah, I've never had issues with the shotty.  I actually really liked it as it looked and felt cool while 1 shot killing enemies at close range (plus it has the flashlight).  I've had great success with it online as well when dealing with smaller choke points.

Quote
The AI was also extremely impressive and the overwhelming odds + smarts of the enemy flanks brought the intensity and feeling that you were fighting your way through a real warzone.  The gunplay felt extremely good and satisfying when you were taking down the enemies.
Yeah, I thought the AI was really interesting to fight.  They moved like crazy to the point that you never felt completely safe.  This is what I feel separates the game from the CoD series (where enemies mostly just stay in a couple specifics areas and continue to spawn until you've satisfied some condition).  Same with the quality of the set pieces.  CoD5 is so damn loud and explosive, yet most of the actual on-screen action is boring.  I literally fell asleep playing the game once (it was late, but still).  :P
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 30, 2009, 02:33:01 PM
There was a flashlight?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 30, 2009, 02:41:37 PM
There was a flashlight?
Yeah, the iron sights button toggles it.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 30, 2009, 03:30:21 PM
There was a flashlight?
Yeah, the iron sights button toggles it.

Oh hey, look at that.  Guess I never tried to zoom in with the shotgun ^^;

So I loaded up that last room because it was the only map I knew where I had immediate access to the shotgun and I think my problem with the shotgun is that the reticule is pretty tiny and the range is really short so it's easy to miss the enemies with the bulk of your shot (since they're always moving) and that's why it doesn't 1 hit kill them all the time.  I had one enemy run up and start meleeing me and I kept firing straight at forward with the shotgun and the blast didn't kill him and he melee'd me to death, lol  >_< 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 30, 2009, 04:33:01 PM
Quote
I had one enemy run up and start meleeing me and I kept firing straight at forward with the shotgun and the blast didn't kill him and he melee'd me to death, lol  >_<
At least the enemy melee isn't as insane as Call of Duty.  :P  I remember when those fuckers would run up to you (especially in CoD2) and just start beating on you until you died.

One thing that annoyed me in KZ2 is how they handle close combat.  It's plenty solid overall, but I feel you can get a bit TOO close to the enemies which can result in some confusing moments if that enemy is on the move when you approach.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 30, 2009, 04:56:43 PM
I can't even remember using melee or the knife much. The knife was a pretty big disappointment, what with KZ1 having the best knife kills around. I guess they had to tone it down a notch, but god damn it, I missed the thud-gurgle of the knife throw, and the more intimate slit-gurgle.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Bebpo on March 30, 2009, 05:04:23 PM
I never figured out how to equip the knife :\

Plus what is the point of using a knife when you can instantly melee with your weapon out?
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dark1x on March 30, 2009, 05:05:49 PM
I never figured out how to equip the knife :\

Plus what is the point of using a knife when you can instantly melee with your weapon out?
Yep, that's how I feel.  The original game used context sensitive kills while KZ2 uses a more Halo-like melee system.  I don't see any reason for the knife to exist at all.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on March 30, 2009, 05:08:49 PM
Reading this thread made me so glad that I didn't pick up Killzone 2.  It's funny how Sony fans are rationalizing KZ2's so-so quailty.  They're trying so hard to convince themselves that KZ2 is a great game even though the logical parts of their brains are telling them it's not. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 30, 2009, 05:23:55 PM
Reading this thread made me so glad that I didn't pick up Killzone 2.  It's funny how Sony fans are rationalizing KZ2's so-so quailty.  They're trying so hard to convince themselves that KZ2 is a great game even though the logical parts of their brains are telling them it's not. 

Nothing quite like getting the grand assessment of the game from someone who hasn't actually played it. How very EB. I don't know what makes a great game (and I'm personally starting to question the entire genre), but barring mythical standards of the genre, KZ2 is among the best at what it does, even with its shortcomings.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 30, 2009, 05:42:50 PM
Reading this thread made me so glad that I didn't pick up Killzone 2.  It's funny how Sony fans are rationalizing KZ2's so-so quailty.  They're trying so hard to convince themselves that KZ2 is a great game even though the logical parts of their brains are telling them it's not. 

Are you serious with this shit?  Fucking sh!tbin your life.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on March 30, 2009, 06:06:33 PM
Reading this thread made me so glad that I didn't pick up Killzone 2.  It's funny how Sony fans are rationalizing KZ2's so-so quailty.  They're trying so hard to convince themselves that KZ2 is a great game even though the logical parts of their brains are telling them it's not. 

Nothing quite like getting the grand assessment of the game from someone who hasn't actually played it. How very EB. I don't know what makes a great game (and I'm personally starting to question the entire genre), but barring mythical standards of the genre, KZ2 is among the best at what it does, even with its shortcomings.

I'm assessing the assessments of people who played the game.  90% of Bebpo's long post on the previous page was about how the controls suck and how the weapons/damage system are unbalanced yet he concluded the game was pretty great. 

There's nothing more fundamental to the a FPS's gameplay than its controls.  How is it possible to enjoy a FPS when you're constantly hampered by the controls? 

 
If even a PS3 fan like Bebpo had such problems, I strongly doubt that I won't experience the same.  Keep in mind that I've always hated using Sony controllers for FPS games. 

Unless someone find a way to use KB+M with Killzone 2, it's unlikely I'll try it out until it beomcs a Greatest Hit.


Reading this thread made me so glad that I didn't pick up Killzone 2.  It's funny how Sony fans are rationalizing KZ2's so-so quailty.  They're trying so hard to convince themselves that KZ2 is a great game even though the logical parts of their brains are telling them it's not. 

Are you serious with this shit?  Fucking sh!tbin your life.

Try not to get so worked up over a forum post, psycho. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: CHOW CHOW on March 30, 2009, 06:55:08 PM
Reading this thread made me so glad that I didn't pick up Killzone 2.  It's funny how Sony fans are rationalizing KZ2's so-so quailty.  They're trying so hard to convince themselves that KZ2 is a great game even though the logical parts of their brains are telling them it's not. 

Nothing quite like getting the grand assessment of the game from someone who hasn't actually played it. How very EB. I don't know what makes a great game (and I'm personally starting to question the entire genre), but barring mythical standards of the genre, KZ2 is among the best at what it does, even with its shortcomings.

I'm assessing the assessments of people who played the game.  90% of Bebpo's long post on the previous page was about how the controls suck and how the weapons/damage system are unbalanced yet he concluded the game was pretty great. 

There's nothing more fundamental to the a FPS's gameplay than its controls.  How is it possible to enjoy a FPS when you're constantly hampered by the controls? 

 
If even a PS3 fan like Bebpo had such problems, I strongly doubt that I won't experience the same.  Keep in mind that I've always hated using Sony controllers for FPS games. 

Unless someone find a way to use KB+M with Killzone 2, it's unlikely I'll try it out until it beomcs a Greatest Hit.


Reading this thread made me so glad that I didn't pick up Killzone 2.  It's funny how Sony fans are rationalizing KZ2's so-so quailty.  They're trying so hard to convince themselves that KZ2 is a great game even though the logical parts of their brains are telling them it's not. 

Are you serious with this shit?  Fucking sh!tbin your life.

Try not to get so worked up over a forum post, psycho. 

1. You haven't played the game.

2. Bepbo is a japanophile "meh I get nausea while playing FPS games meh meh" type dude.

3. The controls are perfectly fine now.  They're not an issue whatsoever after the patch, which was weeks ago.

I mean really, what an awful post... "I haven't played it but this guy and that guy say it sucks so it must suck and PS3 fans must be trying to justify it blah blah". 

Go back to GameFaqs, you Xfag fuck.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 30, 2009, 07:07:43 PM
So you're taking into account the fact that he's a PS3 fan, but not the fact that he's admittedly not that into FPS? Yeah, no selective reading going on there. Controls are absolutely different from the magnetic reticle and gun on a stick norm and definitely an acquired taste, but that's about all there is to that. I don't actually think you would like it, especially not if you can't get around the PS3 controller itself, but that has little to do with Sony fanboys supposedly being blind to an imaginary "so-so" quality. Leave the "I just read what some people said and now I'm happy that I never tried it myself" to pros like Jinfash.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on March 30, 2009, 07:55:48 PM
1. You haven't played the game.

2. Bepbo is a japanophile "meh I get nausea while playing FPS games meh meh" type dude.

3. The controls are perfectly fine now.  They're not an issue whatsoever after the patch, which was weeks ago.

I mean really, what an awful post... "I haven't played it but this guy and that guy say it sucks so it must suck and PS3 fans must be trying to justify it blah blah". 

Go back to GameFaqs, you Xfag fuck.


Hey, SFAG distinguished mentally-challenged fellow, you seem to care an awful lot about what I think.  Are you going to kill yourself when I sell my PS3? 


So you're taking into account the fact that he's a PS3 fan, but not the fact that he's admittedly not that into FPS? Yeah, no selective reading going on there. Controls are absolutely different from the magnetic reticle and gun on a stick norm and definitely an acquired taste, but that's about all there is to that. I don't actually think you would like it, especially not if you can't get around the PS3 controller itself, but that has little to do with Sony fanboys supposedly being blind to an imaginary "so-so" quality. Leave the "I just read what some people said and now I'm happy that I never tried it myself" to pros like Jinfash.

I assumed that Bebpo knew what he's talking about since he's mentioned playing Resistance, Halo, COD, etc. 

Also, I didn't say that I was never going to try KZ2.  All I'm saying is that I'm not paying full price for a FPS with funky controls. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on March 30, 2009, 08:02:22 PM
Also, I didn't say that I was never going to try KZ2.  All I'm saying is that I'm not paying full price for a FPS with funky controls. 

Actually, what you seemed to be suggesting was that the comments in this thread somehow invalidated the praise the game has gotten. It sits comfortably on the upper shelves of the genre. Whether or not that makes it a great game, that's a different matter. I'd say no, but that's probably just because I've had my fill of warzone shooters for a long time to come.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on April 21, 2009, 02:40:48 PM
DLC has been priced, $6 for two maps. Sounds expensive.

http://blog.us.playstation.com/2009/04/21/killzone-2-dlc-price-and-trailer/
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Mr. Gundam on April 21, 2009, 02:47:05 PM
These are multiplayer maps right?

I don't have time for multiplayer, so I'll pass.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Draft on April 21, 2009, 03:20:05 PM
The aiming really is atrocious. I think I see what they were attempting to create, but it fails so spectacularly that it should have been scrapped in pre-pre-alpha.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on April 21, 2009, 03:23:49 PM
I doubt I need to repeat my own opinion on the controls, but for those who do have problems with it, there are supposedly more tweaks coming in the next patch.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on April 21, 2009, 03:28:21 PM
The gaming podcasts have had widely varying reports on KZ2's quality.  People either seem to love it or hate it.

However, most seem to agree that the controls weren't that great.  Guess I'll wait for the patches before I get KZ2. 

Many people also mention that the last level sucks because it's so frustrating. 

Is it possible to change the difficulty during play?  I'll like to play through in at least normal but I don't wannna spend several hours playing the last level.   
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on April 21, 2009, 03:35:58 PM
Not sure, but I think you can at the very least pick a separate chapter and start from there on any difficulty. So you would want to play the majority of the game on Veteran, and maybe the last bit on Normal.

This fucking control thing though, most people also want to feel capable without having to actually be capable, hence the cries for everything to be like COD. But I'm sure the next one will feature magnetic reticles. Maybe for their own sake the game should have had the option of control styles (similar to assists in racing games), but it's interesting to see how welcoming people are of the concept of standards on the most primitive level.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: Smooth Groove on April 21, 2009, 03:39:05 PM
It shouldn't be that hard to include an auto-aim assist option.  In Halo 1 & 2 on PC, auto-aim is switched off immediately when KB+M is selected.

I've got to say I like auto-aim in console shooters, espeically when they're on the PS3. 

I just can't get comfortable enough with the PS3's analog sticks to not require at least a litttle auto aiming help. 
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: AdmiralViscen on April 21, 2009, 03:44:03 PM
KZ2 has massive auto aim, you just have to get the cursor really close to the guy in order to trigger it. It makes for a weird gameplay mechanic where rather than aiming for headshots, you just push the cursor around and try to paint over someone's upper body and let the dot snap to the head. Once you've done this, even if he starts running laterally or whatever your cursor will stay on the head.

edit:

[youtube=560,345]ZopiWebNxq0[/youtube]

Apparently they removed it with a patch, I haven't played with the new patch yet. You didn't need to use iron sights to benefit from the auto aim before the patch though, I wonder if that was removed too.

It still required more skill than the auto aim found in most of its competitors, and it was the only thing that kept me from hating the controls in multi, so hopefully they didn't remove it. Not like I'm playing anyway until they patch in parties...
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: duckman2000 on April 21, 2009, 03:56:17 PM
It shouldn't be that hard to include an auto-aim assist option.  In Halo 1 & 2 on PC, auto-aim is switched off immediately when KB+M is selected.

I've got to say I like auto-aim in console shooters, espeically when they're on the PS3. 

I just can't get comfortable enough with the PS3's analog sticks to not require at least a litttle auto aiming help. 


I avoided console shooters for the longest time because of the input method, and while I still consider it basically inferior, it was possible to adapt to it, and I'd almost argue that there are some benefits to it. Which is essentially why it's a bit hard to take console gamers seriously when they complain about a game with somewhat unusual aiming. I mean, I get that some won't like it, and it definitely requires more work than other games, but like RE5, it's possible to adapt to it.

On a related note, I almost feel that Guerrilla should have included only the default control configuration. If you give people the option to configure the controls to be near identical to COD or other games, they will also attempt to play it like they would those games.

KZ2 has massive auto aim, you just have to get the cursor really close to the guy in order to trigger it. It makes for a weird gameplay mechanic where rather than aiming for headshots, you just push the cursor around and try to paint over someone's upper body and let the dot snap to the head. Once you've done this, even if he starts running laterally or whatever your cursor will stay on the head.

I never even noticed that, but then I didn't put a whole lot of time into MP. I know there was a shotgun "glitch" (which somehow made it into the game after the beta), but I was unaware of this.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 21, 2009, 03:57:51 PM
That Auto Aim is hilarious.
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: tiesto on April 21, 2009, 05:19:08 PM
Last night I d/led the demo of this just to see what the big deal was... will give it a try later today. If I can pull myself away from SO4 and LBP...
Title: Re: kz2
Post by: dammitmattt on April 24, 2009, 05:55:54 PM
After being unable to finish the last part of the last level on Veteran, I dropped down to Normal and it still took me a while to finally beat the level and Radec.  What a shitty last level and shitty ending.  Terrible, terrible storytelling.  I was so relieved that I could finally get rid of this game since I hate the controls too much to enjoy the multiplayer.