THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: magus on January 12, 2010, 06:47:29 PM

Title: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 12, 2010, 06:47:29 PM
i have played them but i was just wondering what's the general opinion here on bore,to be fair i'm no big fan of them even tough i'm like the greatest FF7 toolboy ever and like quite a bit of FF6 ( :yuck world of ruin  :yuck) so i was wondering if i was just a crazy lone man or if somebody shared the sentiment
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 12, 2010, 06:54:11 PM
Only good ones are 4 and 5

LIST THREAD
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Trent Dole on January 12, 2010, 07:02:49 PM
4 and 6 are pretty awesome. Never got very far in 5.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 12, 2010, 07:06:15 PM
1 is average.
2 sucks.
3 is okay. 5 did it better.
4 is top 5 ff.
5 is third best ff.
6 is second best ff.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Vizzys on January 12, 2010, 07:09:19 PM
play earthbound instead
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 12, 2010, 07:11:07 PM
earthbound sucks.

mother 3 is better.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 12, 2010, 07:23:07 PM
earthbound sucks.

mother 3 is better.

Ok can you explain why? I'm seriously interested why people think this is.

I played both, and Mother 3 pretty much knocked me out of the stratosphere on how awful it was. Like, I raged when I finished, I couldn't believe what I played.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Third on January 12, 2010, 07:25:33 PM
I still need to play FFII and FFV. The only main FF games I've never played.

I'm waiting for the FFV DS remake. Don't think I'll ever play FFII. Game looks ungodly ugly.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 12, 2010, 07:25:38 PM
I like Mother 3's gameplay (dungeons, combo system, difficulty) more. I like the humor more. I like the story, characters, writing more. It's just a really charming game. But I find Earthbound eye roll inducing.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 12, 2010, 07:28:06 PM
earthbound sucks.

mother 3 is better.

Ok can you explain why? I'm seriously interested why people think this is.

I played both, and Mother 3 pretty much knocked me out of the stratosphere on how awful it was. Like, I raged when I finished, I couldn't believe what I played.

I liked both a lot when I played them the year Mother 3 came out back to back.  I don't think one is worse than the other.  3 has a more serious story while 2 is silly fun.  The wall of lights in 2 is amazingly powerful.  The battle system in 3 is a little better and deeper.  That's about the only difference I noticed.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 12, 2010, 07:30:59 PM
And for the OP

FF1 GBA- simple but great
FF2 GBA - awesome.  FFXII portable simple edition.  I heard the original sucked but I never played it and the fixed GBA version was excellent.
FF3 DS - I dunno, I've tried 3 times and never made it more than 5-6 hours because it's really boring.  Only FF I haven't beaten ;_;
FF4 SNES - Good, FF4 DS OMFGBBQ SO GOOD.  Great story/cutscenes, great hard gameplay
FFV SNES - ZOMG amazing gameplay, story is lolz (precurser to FFVIII/FFXIII storytelling)
FFVI SNES - ZOMG story, gameplay/dungeons are pretty hot too.  WoR has problems
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 12, 2010, 07:47:23 PM
World of Ruin is the best part of 6, you plebes. :bow Nonlinearity :bow2

6>4>5>

The rest haven't aged so well. Never played the GBA version of 2 but the original was stupid hard from what I remember. Played the DS remake of 3 and that sucked asshole.

earthbound sucks.

mother 3 is better.
No
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 12, 2010, 07:49:44 PM
I still need to play FFII and FFV. The only main FF games I've never played.

I'm waiting for the FFV DS remake. Don't think I'll ever play FFII. Game looks ungodly ugly.
lol? The jaggy polygonal DS remakes look worse than the 16 bit originals
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 12, 2010, 07:52:50 PM

earthbound sucks.

mother 3 is better.
No

Yes.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 12, 2010, 07:55:01 PM
Hey, did anyone play that FF4 "sequel" that was released exclusively on the Wii store? I tried to run it on Dolphin when it popped up online but couldn't get it to work and never heard much about it after that, so I kinda forgot about it until just now
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 12, 2010, 07:57:09 PM
1 is awesome, 2 sucks balls.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 12, 2010, 07:57:25 PM
I'm near the end of it... it gets a bit too difficult around there. Otherwise it's cake and pretty decent. I ditched all the newtards once I got all the OG characters.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: E-DuB on January 12, 2010, 08:12:59 PM
My thoughts are that Final Fantasy 6 was fuck awesome and I should give it another play-through in the near future...the rest have their quirks but had no lasting effect for me
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 12, 2010, 08:18:41 PM
VI is great.  IV and V are very good but have their flaws.  III is poorly aged and not that fun.  II is poorly aged and terrible.  I is not bad for what it is but it is very simple game.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 12, 2010, 08:52:16 PM
It appears that the only people that don't like 6 are the same ones that don't seem to mind 13's hand-holding narrative. HMMMM

:bow FF6 :bow2
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 12, 2010, 09:04:30 PM
Who the fuck doesn't like FF6?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 12, 2010, 09:06:21 PM
demi

Or he was just trolling the shit out of me
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: tiesto on January 12, 2010, 10:14:40 PM
I love em all except FFIII.  One caveat is that FFII really should only be played in its GBA or PSP form.  Makes the game sane and adds a good bit to the story.

Why does everyone seem to hate 3 so much? I thought it was a pretty damn good game for the era - lots of nonlinear and optional/side stuff, a much better take on FF1's class system, all sorts of unique airships to get (the Invincible is badass!), some pretty balanced gameplay (apart from the fight with Garuda), and some of the best graphics and music on the Famicom.

FF5 will always be my favorite though.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 12, 2010, 10:19:20 PM
I love em all except FFIII.  One caveat is that FFII really should only be played in its GBA or PSP form.  Makes the game sane and adds a good bit to the story.

Why does everyone seem to hate 3 so much? I thought it was a pretty damn good game for the era - lots of nonlinear and optional/side stuff, a much better take on FF1's class system, all sorts of unique airships to get (the Invincible is badass!), some pretty balanced gameplay (apart from the fight with Garuda), and some of the best graphics and music on the Famicom.

FF5 will always be my favorite though.

I'm just going by the DS version and it has:

-Very little story
-Load times :\
-Kinda ugly DS 3d
-Job system is better in FFV

I think it's ok but it doesn't have anything to keep me glued to the game.  I actually think I'd probably like the NES version better if I gave it a shot.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 12, 2010, 10:19:43 PM
Final Fantasy IV is my favorite game of all time. FFVI is pretty awesome, too.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Rman on January 12, 2010, 11:11:15 PM
The SNES trilogy is solid, with V having my favorite system.  I could never get into the original and I've never played the remakes of FII and FIII.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Raban on January 12, 2010, 11:25:47 PM
I've only really played VI. Really liked it.

Tried IV and wasn't into it like five years ago. Will try again later.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Enl on January 13, 2010, 01:24:56 AM
FF1- Fun as a quickie RPG for me. Love to pick this up every once and a while and do a one life run through or experiment with different class groupings.

FF2- Played this for the first time recently (PSP version). Still haven't finished it but I do enjoy that it's an oddball oldschool Final Fantasy.

FF3- Still haven't finished. Maybe someday.

FF4- Need to play through the SNES version again (still haven't finished the DS one). I remember the SNES feeling like it ended prematurely, but it's been almost 15 years since I've last played it.

FF5- Finished this for the first time a few weeks ago. Really loved it. 30+ classes, several worlds to explore, great music, remained fairly challenging throughout. It felt like an evolution of the NES series more so than any of the other SNES games. I would love to see a modern Final Fantasy follow this game's structure someday.

FF6- Too much love for this game for when I was a kid so any high praise I give this could just be construed as nostalgia talkin. I played it again recently and still thought it was fucking awesome.

I have a real hard time getting into 7-9 nowadays. They just feel so slow, even in handheld form.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: GilloD on January 13, 2010, 01:43:46 AM
FF6 is the best RPG, ever. No doubt.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: The Sceneman on January 13, 2010, 04:14:43 AM
someone link me to a fucking SNES ROM site NOW
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 13, 2010, 05:29:00 AM
Of course Chrono Trigger is still the RPG king.
fixed
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Don Flamenco on January 13, 2010, 10:48:29 AM
FF1 -- the first RPG I ever felt compelled to finish (but never could because I was too young to grasp some of the concepts/hard boss fights)

FF6 -- awesome

the rest -- dunno
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 13, 2010, 03:53:07 PM
ok so to convince myself of the quality of final fantasy 5,i started replaying it and just got after the water crystal smash and i still don't understand why people like the job system that much,sure it's a cool idea but ultimately you are just going to end up mastering ranger and red mage and then everyone spams dual cast/rapid fire alternatively if you are familiar with the game or just faq savy you just end up abusing the good blue spells

a lot of jobs are pointless and have no reason to get used so what's the deal?

 
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 13, 2010, 03:56:13 PM
ok so to convince myself of the quality of final fantasy 5,i started replaying it and just got after the water crystal smash and i still don't understand why people like the job system that much,sure it's a cool idea but ultimately you are just going to end up mastering ranger and red mage and then everyone spams dual cast/rapid fire alternatively if you are familiar with the game or just faq savy you just end up abusing the good blue spells

a lot of jobs are pointless and have no reason to get used so what's the deal?

 

Exactly, FF6 sucks.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: naff on January 13, 2010, 04:07:58 PM
FF6 is awesome. As for playing it on SNES I'm doing so currently (emu), but the PS remake was better.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: naff on January 13, 2010, 04:13:55 PM
Even though the first FF game I have played and finished was 7 I don't hold it as the best in the series. Won't make a list but suffice to say FF12 is on the top :-*

Likewise and agreed. FF12, 4 lyfe.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: MCD on January 13, 2010, 04:16:28 PM
ok so to convince myself of the quality of final fantasy 5,i started replaying it and just got after the water crystal smash and i still don't understand why people like the job system that much,sure it's a cool idea but ultimately you are just going to end up mastering ranger and red mage and then everyone spams dual cast/rapid fire alternatively if you are familiar with the game or just faq savy you just end up abusing the good blue spells

a lot of jobs are pointless and have no reason to get used so what's the deal?

 
friend of mine suggested i play ff5 and you just saved me the trouble.

thanks bro.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 06:29:58 PM
ok so to convince myself of the quality of final fantasy 5,i started replaying it and just got after the water crystal smash and i still don't understand why people like the job system that much,sure it's a cool idea but ultimately you are just going to end up mastering ranger and red mage and then everyone spams dual cast/rapid fire alternatively if you are familiar with the game or just faq savy you just end up abusing the good blue spells

a lot of jobs are pointless and have no reason to get used so what's the deal?

 

Because I DON'T do that?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 13, 2010, 06:33:21 PM
that's the best way to exploit the game and exploiting stuff is what all rpg are about... that's why we have elemental weakness and stuff like that

how do you play anyway? do you make everyone a bard and use hide with all of your characters? :teehee
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 06:48:56 PM
No. I use a knight, bm, monk, and thief at first. Then, when they get better stuff, I upgrade their jobs to compliment their base class. So for example, Bartz is a knight, so he gets upgrade to stuff like Samurai. Ferris gets stuff like ninja, archer. Galuf gets berserker, trainer. Lenna gets red mage, summoner, shit like that.

Exploits are boring unless they make the game harder.

Just like with any rpg, I give each character a defined role, usually given off by the story or their character background, and I keep that role throughout the whole game. So in my game, Bartz isn't going to learn magic. He's no mage, he's a fighter. Faris ain't no mage or a warrior she's a pirate, a thief. Galuf is this amnesiac old man who's got a mean fist, so I give him any and every class which is nature or bare fist-based since he's got balls and he rocks. Since what's her face is his granddaughter, I give her a similar style, mostly because I'm lazy and don't want to break up my style. Lenna's a princess, and she's quite fragile. So I give her all magic skills. She's my only mage in the game.

I do this with every single rpg I play. Even in games like FF7 and FF12 which have customization systems that call for the characters to be similar.

THe job system in FF5 is so fun because it gives you so many options. Mastering a job and giving those skills to the character while he's using another job, complimenting  his current class is fun as fuck. Every time.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 06:51:50 PM
People who make parties with nothing but one class are pussies.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: MCD on January 13, 2010, 06:54:46 PM
my 6 mewtwos will destroy you any day
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 06:57:58 PM
How did you get 6 mewtwo's in your party? The missing no. glitch?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: MCD on January 13, 2010, 07:02:31 PM
action replay because i was rich kid
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 07:03:48 PM
Haha.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 13, 2010, 07:05:29 PM
Quote
giving those skills to the character while he's using another job, complimenting  his current class
isn't that sugar coating giving rapid-fire to a double wielding character?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 07:12:27 PM
Sure. But you said everyone.

In my game, only one character would be using rapid fire.

Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 13, 2010, 07:13:53 PM
(http://i46.tinypic.com/118pyjp.gif)
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 13, 2010, 07:14:48 PM
Looking back at those games, FF 1-6 feel almost exactly the same. Nothing distinguishes one from another.
:lol
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 07:15:48 PM
Yeah that was a stupid comment.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 13, 2010, 07:21:30 PM
Sure. But you said everyone.

In my game, only one character would be using rapid fire.


....
that doesn't solve the basic problem that the job system is boring because most of the ability are pointless and the keys to deal a shit-ton of damage resides in a few skill... people complain about ff3 because in the end it's all about ninja and sages so why nobody finds a problem here?
heck do you even get enough good weapon to pull of an entire party of rapid fire people?

Optimo - funny i always tought the same thing
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 13, 2010, 07:21:47 PM
I guess Borys didnt know about Auto-Battle back then...
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 07:22:29 PM
Most of the abilities are pointless? Not that I find.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 13, 2010, 07:40:40 PM
that's the best way to exploit the game and exploiting stuff is what all rpg are about... that's why we have elemental weakness and stuff like that

how do you play anyway? do you make everyone a bard and use hide with all of your characters? :teehee

There's a point where you lose the fun of the game though.  Finding a balance between exploiting and having fun is the main goal.

I don't remember my parties in FFV much.  I used most of the jobs and I remember beating the final boss by throwing lots of shit for 9999 damage and miming it :D
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 13, 2010, 07:43:53 PM
Seriously. If you're exploiting the game and not having any fun, who's problem is that?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Rman on January 14, 2010, 12:05:02 AM
I'd love to replay FFV again with only using 4 jobs.  I missed out on the GAF thread from last year.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Trent Dole on January 14, 2010, 01:17:11 AM
(http://i46.tinypic.com/118pyjp.gif)
Oh man, I am so gonna piss a few folks off with this image.  :lol No wonder I wasn't as taken with VII as all the newb kids, I played the same fuckin game on the SNES a few years prior!
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 14, 2010, 01:41:08 AM
While there are similarities between VI and VII's story they're mostly nothing alike.

In VII you're basically a terrorist.

In VI you're a resistance fighter. Your actions in VI cannot be questioned; your actions in VII are completely questionable. And that's just one of the few basic things.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Trent Dole on January 14, 2010, 01:49:00 AM
Why must you ruin my fun?  :'(
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 14, 2010, 02:01:43 AM
While there are similarities between VI and VII's story they're mostly nothing alike.

In VII you're basically a terrorist.

In VI you're a resistance fighter. Your actions in VI cannot be questioned; your actions in VII are completely questionable. And that's just one of the few basic things.

Quote
Barret
         "You're right..."
         "It sounds cool sayin' it's to save the planet."
         "But I was the one who blew up that Mako reactor......"
         "Lookin' back on it now, I can see that wasn't the right way to
do things."
         "I made a lot of friends and innocent bystanders suffer..."

No such thing as a remorseful terrorist :wag

Besides, nothing in that image is false. FF7 is basically the Avatar to FF6's Dances With Wolves

:piss FF7 :piss2
:bow FF6 :bow2
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 14, 2010, 05:24:37 AM
Seriously. If you're exploiting the game and not having any fun, who's problem is that?

the job system for having skills that deal much more damage than hide and geomancy?
again as i said if people have a trouble with the ninja and the sage in FF3,then they should have problem with rapid fire and double casting too

and really you guys might play blinded or making a party with only white mages but to me it's pointless,it's the job of the game to be fun,not mine... if there is a boss that can be insta-killed,it's the game that should be bopped in the head for doing it and not the player for actualy insta-killing it
if there is a way to get a uber weapon early on there is no reason for the player to not use it
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 14, 2010, 08:37:12 AM
If there's a boss that can be insta-killed, don't insta-kill it.

I mean, really, your problem goes beyond FF5. Almost every FF has balance issues.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 14, 2010, 08:38:52 AM
While there are similarities between VI and VII's story they're mostly nothing alike.

In VII you're basically a terrorist.

In VI you're a resistance fighter. Your actions in VI cannot be questioned; your actions in VII are completely questionable. And that's just one of the few basic things.

Quote
Barret
         "You're right..."
         "It sounds cool sayin' it's to save the planet."
         "But I was the one who blew up that Mako reactor......"
         "Lookin' back on it now, I can see that wasn't the right way to
do things."
         "I made a lot of friends and innocent bystanders suffer..."

No such thing as a remorseful terrorist :wag

Besides, nothing in that image is false. FF7 is basically the Avatar to FF6's Dances With Wolves

:piss FF7 :piss2
:bow FF6 :bow2

But in FF6 they're not saving the planet, not at first. It's really just a resistance against an evil empire. Then it slowly unwraps into a save the world plot.

In FF7, you're trying to "save the planet" by questionable means at the beginning of the game.

Even then, once you're out of Midgar, FF7 is all about chasing Sephiroth. There's no resistance at all until well into disc 2 when you go into Midgar and whereas Kekfa actually DESTROYED the world and put it in a perpetual world full of fear and death, Sephiroth (or rather, Jenova) just summoned a giant meteor.

You might as well say FF6 is a rip off to FF4, after all, they both star evil empires bent on world destruction and control!  ::) People complaining about games and movies having similar plots are stupid. FF4/FF6 are rip offs of Star Wars, which is a "rip off" of Battleship Potemkin.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 14, 2010, 09:18:00 AM
Who cares about ninja an sage in FF3 if the game itself is zzz?

You can exploit just about every game you encounter. Doesn't mean you have to.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 14, 2010, 11:23:54 AM
well i know of no other rpg where you can get something so powerfull to break the entire game halfway trough it,unless tri-ace or etrian odyssey are involved

and really i'm not even saying that ff5 is bad i'm saying that ff5 job system isn't great because ultimately there are a few usefull skills that let you deal tons of damage and tons of crappy skill that you just stockpile on your character (like all the "equip x" stuff) so it seems silly to see people going "ZOMG THE JOB SYSTEM IS AWESOME"

saying "don't use the awesome skill then" doesn't change this basic fact

 
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 14, 2010, 11:26:10 AM
For me, job systems are not about skills. For me, job systems are about customization. I could give two shits about skills.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 14, 2010, 11:30:04 AM
and isn't customization about skills?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 14, 2010, 11:32:08 AM
Sure. But for me, customization is also about creating my own dude, with my own gauntlet of things to kill monsters with. If I don't want to use a skill, I don't have to. That's the joy in FF5's system. FF5 lets me do this like no other FF job system that ISN'T FFT's or FFX-2's.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Nintendosbooger on January 15, 2010, 12:10:35 AM
The Final Fantasy series has always been better suited for Nintendo consoles, IMO. The sales of the series has dipped since VII, originally designed for the N64, was released for the PSX. For a comparison, Square-Enix returned the DQ series to a Nintendo platform and the result was the highest selling DQ game ever.

A mainline FF Wii game would definitely revitalize the plummeting franchise. And before you guys say that it's not possible on the Wii, observe the sales of NSMBWii as it makes its way to be among the top 3 Mario games of all time, surpassing even the SNES and NES classics. FF and DQ games have shown to be relatively console resilient, selling well despite the comparable platforms on which they're housed, but the superior popularity and userbase of the Nintendo machines would catapult any new mainline FF/DQ game to a whole new plateau.

Of course a new mainline FF game on the Wii probably won't happen given Nomura's obvious hard on for the sputtering Sony machines. Someone at SE needs to remind the company that they were great before the weird zipper fanatic became the lead character designer.
Had FF13 been originally developed for the Wii to be released exclusively for the Wii, the game would have broken a series record. Too bad we have to wait until DQX before everyone sees that.

Oh well.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Raban on January 15, 2010, 12:13:11 AM
The Final Fantasy series has always been better suited for Nintendo consoles, IMO. The sales of the series has dipped since VII, originally designed for the N64, was released for the PSX. For a comparison, Square-Enix returned the DQ series to a Nintendo platform and the result was the highest selling DQ game ever.

A mainline FF Wii game would definitely revitalize the plummeting franchise. And before you guys say that it's not possible on the Wii, observe the sales of NSMBWii as it makes its way to be among the top 3 Mario games of all time, surpassing even the SNES and NES classics. FF and DQ games have shown to be relatively console resilient, selling well despite the comparable platforms on which they're housed, but the superior popularity and userbase of the Nintendo machines would catapult any new mainline FF/DQ game to a whole new plateau.

Of course a new mainline FF game on the Wii probably won't happen given Nomura's obvious hard on for the sputtering Sony machines. Someone at SE needs to remind the company that they were great before the weird zipper fanatic became the lead character designer.
Had FF13 been originally developed for the Wii to be released exclusively for the Wii, the game would have broken a series record. Too bad we have to wait until DQX before everyone sees that.

Oh well.

I almost agreed with this post until I saw who wrote it.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 12:31:00 AM
The problem with FF isn't the consoles. The problem with FF is that the budget is too bloated and that it follows a way outdated gameplay model. FF13's overly cinematic crap will probably be the last time Square funds that stuff, and they will probably start focusing on more western approaches to rpgs with a blend of Japanese design - with the help of their recently acquired studio, Eidos.

Putting a mainline FF on the wii isn't the answer because that's not the series' audience. Japanese players will buy systems for DQ. I highly doubt players would go out of their way to buy wii's to play FF outside of Japan, but I could be wrong on that. But the numbers don't lie, considering how FF remakes, and FF Crystal Chronicles games have sold across Nintendo platforms.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 15, 2010, 12:54:01 AM
Quote
sure it's a cool idea but ultimately you are just going to end up mastering ranger and red mage and then everyone spams dual cast/rapid fire alternatively if you are familiar with the game or just faq savy you just end up abusing the good blue spells

Doesn't dual cast take like 999 AP to learn?  If you're grinding that much, you'll be overpowered anyway and the game will be easy no matter what tactics you use, so it doesn't even matter.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Nintendosbooger on January 15, 2010, 12:59:11 AM
Quote from: Himuro
Putting a mainline FF on the wii isn't the answer because that's not the series' audience..

That's where you're wrong, brah. Where was the FF audience on the PSX before VII was whisked away and sold a record number on the platform? You make it sound like the FF fans are hopelessly and forever intertwined with Sony machines exclusively, but we all know that isn't true.

I think Nomura's zipper magic has worn out and the series needs to take a whole new direction (ala Zelda Wii), and possibly start fresh on a new console altogether. After all, if they do decide to sprinkle some western influence on the series, why not do it on the most popular home console in the west?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 15, 2010, 01:01:45 AM
Nintendosbooger really needs to make better use of the job change system.  Learn to mix and match a bit, dude.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 01:29:24 AM
Quote from: Himuro
Putting a mainline FF on the wii isn't the answer because that's not the series' audience..

That's where you're wrong, brah. Where was the FF audience on the PSX before VII was whisked away and sold a record number on the platform? You make it sound like the FF fans are hopelessly and forever intertwined with Sony machines exclusively, but we all know that isn't true.

I think Nomura's zipper magic has worn out and the series needs to take a whole new direction (ala Zelda Wii), and possibly start fresh on a new console altogether. After all, if they do decide to sprinkle some western influence on the series, why not do it on the most popular home console in the west?

Well, FF has become less relevant in the industry in general. Despite dwindling sales, they still (for the most part) sold better than they did pre-VII because pre-VII was ONLY Japan. Hell, FF8 sold more than 7. So where is your argument?

I'm not saying FF fans are mostly concentrated on Sony consoles, but there's definitely an overwhelming amount. And many of those went to Microsoft when 360 came out and Sony took forever to release ps3.

What I'M saying is that I don't FF is no longer relevent enough for it to recieve a revival strictly because of wii. FF is not DQ. Most of DQ's sales come IN Japan, whereas FF is a far more internationally sold franchise. FF has built up a brand in the US, Canada, Europe and the rest of the world; DQ hasn't. It has also built up its brand on high end consoles with crazy product values. I think that going to the wii would do WONDERS for the wii audience in Japan, but would be a disaster outside of Japan. After all, we know how well rpgs have done on Nintendo consoles in the past 3 gens. :lenowned

With the exception of games like Tales of Symphonia which are only successes BECAUSE of a heavy rpg drought on Nintendo consoles and heavy word of mouth, people don't think of rpgs when it comes to the wii. DQ10 could change that, like it helped changed the portable rpg landscape, I *still* doubt that putting FF on wii is a good idea.

That's doing away with over ten years of brand name build up: from 7 up till now. That's like putting RE games exclusive on a Nintendo console, and we know how THAT turned out. :teehee

I'll agree that the series needs new life. Something that'll give it a new boost in terms of interest and sales ala RE4, but I don't think that putting it on the wii is the answer. Nintendo fans have clamored for high profile series on wii and most of those haven't done so well in the past, have they?

No, what FF needs is this:

1. New life, a reinvention so crazy that it will make people who stopped after 8 and 9 and 10 to become actually interested again.
2. Grow up so it interests more than people outside of the animu and/or tween circle. Many of the people who helped build Square's empire are now tired of their shit, grew up, and moved on and while they're still popular with teenagers, I really wonder HOW popular.
3. Shorter development cycles. This is the big one. A part of the reason FF7-10 sold so well is because they came out YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR. FF7 in 97, FF8 in 99, FF9 in 00, FF10 in 01. These days we're lucky to get a new single player main series FF every 4-5. That's too goddamn long.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 15, 2010, 04:55:28 AM
Quote
sure it's a cool idea but ultimately you are just going to end up mastering ranger and red mage and then everyone spams dual cast/rapid fire alternatively if you are familiar with the game or just faq savy you just end up abusing the good blue spells

Doesn't dual cast take like 999 AP to learn?  If you're grinding that much, you'll be overpowered anyway and the game will be easy no matter what tactics you use, so it doesn't even matter.
actualy you could say it takes even more since you need to learn the abilities before dual cast but as i said i have a problem with the job system not with the game itself,saying that a final fantasy is easy is like saying that the sky is blue

besides it depends on what you are using for grinding,there are a few encounters that give you quite a lot of JP

and can we keep nintendosbooger out of this thread? i feel stupider (is that even a word?) already  :'(
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Green Shinobi on January 15, 2010, 05:51:43 AM
FF6 is still, in my opinion, the best JRPG ever.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 08:23:23 AM
No, what FF needs is this:

1. New life, a reinvention so crazy that it will make people who stopped after 8 and 9 and 10 to become actually interested again.

2. Grow up so it interests more than people outside of the animu and/or tween circle. Many of the people who helped build Square's empire are now tired of their shit, grew up, and moved on and while they're still popular with teenagers, I really wonder HOW popular.

3. Shorter development cycles. This is the big one. A part of the reason FF7-10 sold so well is because they came out YEAR AFTER YEAR AFTER YEAR. FF7 in 97, FF8 in 99, FF9 in 00, FF10 in 01. These days we're lucky to get a new single player main series FF every 4-5. That's too goddamn long.


FF12 did ALL THAT and guess what? FF weeaboos and fantards WHINED because it wasn't up to their fucking  FFX-2 jpop shit wankery.

Fuck I hate FF fans. Fucking despise them.

I agree, but FF12 wasn't good enough. If FF12 hadn't had development problems and became the game it should have been, we PROBABLY wouldn't be having this discussion.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: dark1x on January 15, 2010, 08:30:23 AM
I agree, but FF12 wasn't good enough. If FF12 hadn't had development problems and became the game it should have been, we PROBABLY wouldn't be having this discussion.
Honestly, Final Fantasy is one of the few multi-million dollar series out there to see significant change with each new release.  How often, in the last 15 years, have they really played it safe with the mainline installments in the franchise?

For better or for worse, you always end up with a very different game with changes made that often divide the fanbase.  It's no surprise that some people hate FFXIII, really.  Every installment pisses off a subset of fans to some degree.  Are there even any FF titles that truly please ALL of the fans?

I must admit, however, I'm growing tired of the "anime storylines" at this point.  I used to enjoy that shit when I was younger, but now, it's just embarrassing and does nothing for me.  FFXII was actually an improvement in that regard, but XIII seems like a step back.  I don't want generic Western RPG bullshit either (like Dragon Age or something), rather, I want to see their creativity put to use in a way that is unexpected and interesting without the anime influence.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 08:43:10 AM
Those changes are never really monumental changes and almost never enough to win back or interest the old crowd.

I'm talking something big, here. RE1-3 -> RE4 big. And they should stick with it, too. Not just employ this drastic change for one game.

Because unless yer Dragon Quest, following the 20 year old traditional rpg model ain't gonna get you a new audience.

And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: tiesto on January 15, 2010, 11:06:04 AM
Those changes are never really monumental changes and almost never enough to win back or interest the old crowd.

I'm talking something big, here. RE1-3 -> RE4 big. And they should stick with it, too. Not just employ this drastic change for one game.

Because unless yer Dragon Quest, following the 20 year old traditional rpg model ain't gonna get you a new audience.

And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.

It's interesting how many DQ threads I go to on NeoGAF and I find so many people who are now completely enthralled in the series, from starting with 8 or 4/5 DS.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 15, 2010, 04:04:13 PM
anyway i'm continuing,i just remembered the most awesome thing of ff5
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0W8warkXFOU[/youtube]
*UH*
just cleared the last few bosses by spamming ifrit like a damned,himuro wouldn't be proud  :'(
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 15, 2010, 04:37:52 PM
Am I the only one who thinks FF1-13 don't have "anime storylines"?  When I think anime storyline I think of Tales or Wild Arms.  FF has never struck me as "anime".  I've always felt the games were a level of maturity above generic anime.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 15, 2010, 04:42:31 PM
yea to me it just seems like a way to call the plot "cheap and stupid" without saying it straightly
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 07:44:27 PM
Those changes are never really monumental changes and almost never enough to win back or interest the old crowd.

I'm talking something big, here. RE1-3 -> RE4 big. And they should stick with it, too. Not just employ this drastic change for one game.

Because unless yer Dragon Quest, following the 20 year old traditional rpg model ain't gonna get you a new audience.

And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.

It's interesting how many DQ threads I go to on NeoGAF and I find so many people who are now completely enthralled in the series, from starting with 8 or 4/5 DS.

I have a similar story. 8 was my first. Fell in love with the series and played almost all the games just a few years back.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 07:56:24 PM
Am I the only one who thinks FF1-13 don't have "anime storylines"?  When I think anime storyline I think of Tales or Wild Arms.  FF has never struck me as "anime".  I've always felt the games were a level of maturity above generic anime.

How are they not anime stories?

They take typical anime cliches:

The energetic hero.

The quiet, weak damsel.

Stupid, convoluted plots with a mish mash of overly dramatic Japanese acting.

How are they, and this in particular, NOT anime stories?

[youtube=560,345]T6moSSGvc5w[/youtube]

You could attribute this to the overly dramatic nature of Asian acting in general, but how can you watch this and NOT draw similarities to THIS? Especially given the names of FF leads? Cloud, Squall, Lightning, Snow? That is Gundam protagonist territory.

[youtube=560,345]65NNy8eZ9HQ[/youtube]

I'M A GUNDAM. In terms of writing, character archetypes, storylines, and character arcs, Final Fantasy games are generic anime in game form.

The only reason you think Tales and Wild Arms are anime stories while FF isn't are the character designs.

7 and up most definitely fit the definition of anime stories. Games before that are more simplistic, although FF4 and its wackiness is stretching it.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 15, 2010, 08:49:44 PM
7 and up most definitely fit the definition of anime stories. Games before that are more simplistic, although FF4 and its wackiness is stretching it.
I dunno if I'd count FF9; that whole return-to-roots theme they were trying to run with disqualifies it here, I think. I don't recall any offensive pseudo-profoundness, and the tone was generally much more blithe and quirky (but not awkwardly so) than the SRS BZNS feel of the others. Even the character design sorta reflected the self-awareness that's otherwise been mostly absent since 7.

But then I haven't played that shit in years, so maybe nostalgia just has me talking out of my ass
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 08:51:25 PM
Why do people always say FF9 is a return to roots? It isn't. If return to roots means take every single plot twist in every FF ever, even games like 7 and 8, then sure, it's return to roots!

Or do they mean fantasy setting? Because, oops, cities like Lindblum blow that out of the water.

If they mean the lightheartedness, I'd agree, but that tone is entirely shifted in the later half and really, what FF before 9 has quirky humor and lightheartedness? FF5? FF6? That's really it? Some "return to roots!"
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 15, 2010, 08:53:49 PM
I usually refer to "return to roots" by not introducing some dilapidated gaming scheme, such as the Draw/Junction, Materia, or even Job Systems. You just pick your characters, level up, and earn skills from equipment. Very classic, and enjoyable.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 08:54:53 PM
SRS BZNS feel of the others

[youtube=560,345]a1kBChUdQ7w[/youtube]
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 15, 2010, 09:07:33 PM
Or do they mean fantasy setting? Because, oops, cities like Lindblum blow that out of the water.
Because the 8 and 16bit installments never had stuff like steam power or airships, right? Besides, being on the verge of industrialization is a far cry from full-on industrialization with shit like motorcycles and reactors and guns.

But I was more referring to what demi said.

what FF before 9 has quirky humor and lightheartedness? FF5? FF6? That's really it? Some "return to roots!"
??? The only other thing I said it had in common with its pre-7 predecessors was self-awareness, i.e. not trying SOOO hard to be DEEP.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 15, 2010, 09:10:56 PM
SRS BZNS feel of the others

[youtube=560,345]a1kBChUdQ7w[/youtube]

Operative word in that sentence being "generally".

But that was pretty homo :lol
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 15, 2010, 09:12:05 PM
The end of FF9 should pretty much be the definition of self-awareness.

"We beat the last boss! Wait... giant crystal overlord? Shit, let's kill that too!"

One of the secret bosses is a giant floating orb!
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: MCD on January 15, 2010, 09:28:53 PM
SRS BZNS feel of the others

(http://i48.tinypic.com/2a21z5.jpg)

fixed.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 15, 2010, 09:39:10 PM
*tinkle tinkle*
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 15, 2010, 09:49:44 PM
Borys attacks point

Borys misses
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on January 15, 2010, 10:13:36 PM
I think the recent FF stories are more influenced by Japanese TV drama than by anime, though.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 10:27:29 PM
I think the recent FF stories are more influenced by Japanese TV drama than by anime, though.

Well the cliche's are standard anime, but they have the mannerisms of Japanese tv.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 15, 2010, 10:57:19 PM
I think people are just starting to use "anime stories" to mean "hey, it's Japanese and Japan sucks so that's a bad thing!"

Recursive is right.  FFX+ especially are fashioned after Japanese tv drama.  But hey that's still Japanese so let's just call it anime!  Hell their movies are full of shitty CG so let's call them anime too!  Somehow I'm sure we can describe their novels like Murakami as anime in some way if we tried as well!


It's like people want western stories out of jrpgs.  I think demi hit that nail on the head:
Its a JRPG, you expecting Charles Dickens?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 11:12:53 PM
How are FF10 and up fashioned after Japanese drama and not anime? Japanese drama tends to at least have a basis in reality. Does Japanese drama have the old man with the scar on his face who gives wise advice to the young lead? Do they tend to have an overly preppy female character who's always WE CAN DO IT! Does J-drama tend to have a furry creature who talks and a busty chick in RIDICULOUS clothes that makes zero sense at all? No.

Sounds like you're in denial. The argument isn't that lol Japanese sux, because not all anime have bad stories. You should know where I stand considering I am (or at one point) was a big anime fan. The argument is that the character archetypes are cookie cutter manga/anime cliches with typical anime-like plot twists.

Furthermore still, I'm not saying FF is the only jrpg ever clearly inspired by anime. It's not. Aside from SMT games, unless Persona is on the title and a few other spin offs, I can't think of many jrpgs that AREN'T clearly inspired by anime in some form. Some, like Dragon Quest don't, despite their colorful looks. But many, like later Final Fantasy games, Wild Arms, Tales, Suikoden are CLEARLY inspired by anime. Whether it's a good thing or not depends on the writers at hand.

And demi's post does not hit the nail on the head. I don't expect Charles Dickens from wrpgs either. wrpgs get their inspiration from Dungeons and Dragons and a bunch of other shit. Jrpgs like Final Fantasy get their current inspiration from fashion, j-drama, and ESPECIALLY anime.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 11:22:02 PM
I mean, this is basic shit, bebpo.

[youtube=560,345]LcnGJ6LNqTY[/youtube]

mecha turns into ice twins

[youtube=560,345]QVb8nKj6iYo[/youtube]

mecha turns into a drill

bububububut not inspired by anime.

 :lol
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: MCD on January 15, 2010, 11:25:02 PM
(http://i47.tinypic.com/5pnad0.png)

japs are hacks news at 11
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: drew on January 15, 2010, 11:27:29 PM
weaboos are revolting your weather up next
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 15, 2010, 11:32:10 PM
:lol

FF NOT INSPIRED BY ANIME :rofl
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 16, 2010, 12:35:55 AM
So ripping off mech designs makes the story "anime"?
Japan inspired/rips off Japan.  News at 11.

And himuro if you think archetypes like "peppy character!" and "old wise man with scar!" are anime-created, well I don't know what to tell you.  That's like saying every movie/novel with Bald Space Marines are inspired by Doom.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 16, 2010, 07:04:53 AM
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FinalFantasyX
what's one of the troupe in this list?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LukeIAmYourFather
clearly star wars was inspired by japanese animu! i mean it does have a race of beastmen doesn't it?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheStoic
a lot of stuff in this one too!
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 16, 2010, 09:18:32 AM
I spend more time than anyone ever should watching J-Dramas, and I don't see the connection.  FF isn't like "base anime", but it is like that "high anime" bullshit that a lot of people watch and pretend isn't complete shit.

Not that wRPGs get off much better ripping off shitty Dragonlance books and the arse-end of the Star Trek universe.

it is seriously so hard to believe that i really like ff7 and ff10 story  ???
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 16, 2010, 09:31:54 AM
it is seriously so hard to believe that i really like ff7 and ff10 story  ???

I don't lump OG FF7 in with the 8/10/12/13 crew.  It has a pretty good sense of humour about itself. 

Either way, it's okay to like trashy stories.  Happens all the time.  I like the first Spider-Man movie.  And in 1999, I watched that show Passions for a week and a half when I sprained my ankle.  Just don't forget they're trashy and you'll be alright.

but if i like it doesn't it mean that i'm okay with it and therefore don't think of it as trashy? :wtf

uh anyway i'm off the fight the cannon boss,i'm going to spam ramuh and aquarake so hard :teehee
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 16, 2010, 09:35:56 AM
the big mac is tasty that is all
but it's not as tasty as anything that comes with bacon... mmm... bacon
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 16, 2010, 10:14:13 AM
FF stories are anime inspired because a lot of the same groups of people who play FF watch anime and vice versa.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 16, 2010, 04:43:46 PM
:lol @ denial that FF stories aren't anime-inspired.

Bebpo keeps bringing up j-drama but has cited NO example.

And himuro if you think archetypes like "peppy character!" and "old wise man with scar!" are anime-created, well I don't know what to tell you.  That's like saying every movie/novel with Bald Space Marines are inspired by Doom.

Not really.

Don't make me bring up the tsundere character archtype. DON'T MAKE ME.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 16, 2010, 04:48:48 PM
Those changes are never really monumental changes and almost never enough to win back or interest the old crowd.

I'm talking something big, here. RE1-3 -> RE4 big. And they should stick with it, too. Not just employ this drastic change for one game.

Because unless yer Dragon Quest, following the 20 year old traditional rpg model ain't gonna get you a new audience.

And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.

It's interesting how many DQ threads I go to on NeoGAF and I find so many people who are now completely enthralled in the series, from starting with 8 or 4/5 DS.

I have a similar story. 8 was my first. Fell in love with the series and played almost all the games just a few years back.

Now I feel really old. My first Final Fantasy was the first one on the NES when I was a wee lad. My first DQ was Dragon Warrior on the NES when I was also a wee lad.

 :-\
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 16, 2010, 04:52:50 PM
Well, I didn't have a system that'd play DW. I didn't have  a GBC to play I+II, or III remakes.

I wanted to play DW7 when it came out on psx, but could never find it.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 16, 2010, 04:55:40 PM
I love how Nintendo Power sent out Dragon Warrior (DQ1) for free to subscribers when it first came out.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 16, 2010, 04:56:42 PM
I was too young for that. I was either playing Mario or Castlevania.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 16, 2010, 04:57:58 PM
I couldn't have been more than 7 or 8 when I played through both FF1 and DQ1. Neither were difficult to understand.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 16, 2010, 04:59:14 PM
I was around 3-4 when I first played Mario.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 16, 2010, 04:59:59 PM
Quote
2. Grow up so it interests more than people outside of the animu and/or tween circle. Many of the people who helped build Square's empire are now tired of their shit, grew up, and moved on and while they're still popular with teenagers, I really wonder HOW popular.
Quote
And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.
Quote
Sounds like you're in denial. The argument isn't that lol Japanese sux

himu just do like oscar and say it straight
things like the energetic hero and the weak damsel existed in freakin final fantasy 4 which is a 1991 game,i'm not sure anime even existed in 1991
do i need to pull of "The Grand List of Console Role Playing Game Cliches"?

by the way i'm off to world 2,just killed the last boss by spamming 1000 needles like there was no tomorrow,should have brought a berserker maybe
i have 3 songs,do i have them all? i remember being pissed about missing one last time i played FFV,yes i know they are useless but ehy missing stuff permanently is really really annoying
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: tiesto on January 16, 2010, 05:00:55 PM
Those changes are never really monumental changes and almost never enough to win back or interest the old crowd.

I'm talking something big, here. RE1-3 -> RE4 big. And they should stick with it, too. Not just employ this drastic change for one game.

Because unless yer Dragon Quest, following the 20 year old traditional rpg model ain't gonna get you a new audience.

And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.

It's interesting how many DQ threads I go to on NeoGAF and I find so many people who are now completely enthralled in the series, from starting with 8 or 4/5 DS.

I have a similar story. 8 was my first. Fell in love with the series and played almost all the games just a few years back.

Now I feel really old. My first Final Fantasy was the first one on the NES when I was a wee lad. My first DQ was Dragon Warrior on the NES when I was also a wee lad.

 :-\

Yup, remember reading about Dragon Warrior in Nintendo Power (the issue with Mega Man 2 on the cover), then saw the game available to rent soon after, at the local mom-and-pop video store I used to rent all my NES games from. So I picked it up, didn't really understand much about it (I was 7 at the time), but eventually got the hang of it. Enjoyed the game but it wasn't my favorite... FF1 was like "WHOA" though, was sooooo hyped for that game and I got it for my 8th birthday. I'm so fickle with music but I still enjoy the same games I did as a kid.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 16, 2010, 05:07:24 PM
Quote
2. Grow up so it interests more than people outside of the animu and/or tween circle. Many of the people who helped build Square's empire are now tired of their shit, grew up, and moved on and while they're still popular with teenagers, I really wonder HOW popular.
Quote
And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.
Quote
Sounds like you're in denial. The argument isn't that lol Japanese sux

himu just do like oscar and say it straight

There's nothing wrong with Japanese. I'm merely criticizing the obvious parallels between anime and jrpg fandom and I feel the anime influences are harming the potential quality for jrpgs.

I have not once argued that lol Japan sux.

I'm lol'ing at Bebpo's insistence that NO! FINAL FANTASY IS *NOT* INSPIRED BY ANIME. Which is making me chuckle like a school girl who just saw her first penis.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on January 16, 2010, 05:11:57 PM
Those changes are never really monumental changes and almost never enough to win back or interest the old crowd.

I'm talking something big, here. RE1-3 -> RE4 big. And they should stick with it, too. Not just employ this drastic change for one game.

Because unless yer Dragon Quest, following the 20 year old traditional rpg model ain't gonna get you a new audience.

And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.

It's interesting how many DQ threads I go to on NeoGAF and I find so many people who are now completely enthralled in the series, from starting with 8 or 4/5 DS.

I have a similar story. 8 was my first. Fell in love with the series and played almost all the games just a few years back.

Now I feel really old. My first Final Fantasy was the first one on the NES when I was a wee lad. My first DQ was Dragon Warrior on the NES when I was also a wee lad.

 :-\

Yup, remember reading about Dragon Warrior in Nintendo Power (the issue with Mega Man 2 on the cover), then saw the game available to rent soon after, at the local mom-and-pop video store I used to rent all my NES games from. So I picked it up, didn't really understand much about it (I was 7 at the time), but eventually got the hang of it. Enjoyed the game but it wasn't my favorite... FF1 was like "WHOA" though, was sooooo hyped for that game and I got it for my 8th birthday. I'm so fickle with music but I still enjoy the same games I did as a kid.

I remember when my buddy got FF2 (FF4) for his SNES for Christmas the year it came out. We did nothing but hole up in his room and play the shit out of that game over break.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 16, 2010, 05:25:54 PM
Quote
2. Grow up so it interests more than people outside of the animu and/or tween circle. Many of the people who helped build Square's empire are now tired of their shit, grew up, and moved on and while they're still popular with teenagers, I really wonder HOW popular.
Quote
And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.
Quote
Sounds like you're in denial. The argument isn't that lol Japanese sux

himu just do like oscar and say it straight

There's nothing wrong with Japanese. I'm merely criticizing the obvious parallels between anime and jrpg fandom and I feel the anime influences are harming the potential quality for jrpgs.

I have not once argued that lol Japan sux.

I'm lol'ing at Bebpo's insistence that NO! FINAL FANTASY IS *NOT* INSPIRED BY ANIME. Which is making me chuckle like a school girl who just saw her first penis.

saying that japanese rpg quality is swindling because they use japanese troupe which can be found on japanese anime seems to me like an elaborate way of saying "JAPAN SUX" especialy since a good chunk of these troupe are older than time itself and sometimes can even be found on things like freakin star wars

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/haymansbeard/RrFkGaI8arI/AAAAAAAAAI4/QdCbNRmw-ag/s512/Obi+Wan+Kenobi+01+Large.JPG)

IT'S THE OLD MAN THAT TEACH STUFF TO THE HERO! CLEARLY A PRODUCT OF ANIME!
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 16, 2010, 05:34:59 PM
things like the energetic hero and the weak damsel existed in freakin final fantasy 4 which is a 1991 game,i'm not sure anime even existed in 1991
do i need to pull of "The Grand List of Console Role Playing Game Cliches"?



:lol

Cecil is not energetic.

The damsel in distress cliche goes beyond rpgs and anime, you're right. I should have said, the overly masculine female lead who somehow ends up falling for the main character, and emptying her bent up rage by game's end. She is a bag of emotions, think Asuka from Evangelion. Although I haven't beaten it, or played beyond 4 hours, I can tell that Lightning is a textbook case tsundere (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Tsundere).
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 16, 2010, 05:56:05 PM
desu desu desu
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 16, 2010, 05:58:53 PM
Quote
2. Grow up so it interests more than people outside of the animu and/or tween circle. Many of the people who helped build Square's empire are now tired of their shit, grew up, and moved on and while they're still popular with teenagers, I really wonder HOW popular.
Quote
And yeah, I agree on the anime shit.
Quote
Sounds like you're in denial. The argument isn't that lol Japanese sux

himu just do like oscar and say it straight

There's nothing wrong with Japanese. I'm merely criticizing the obvious parallels between anime and jrpg fandom and I feel the anime influences are harming the potential quality for jrpgs.

I have not once argued that lol Japan sux.

I'm lol'ing at Bebpo's insistence that NO! FINAL FANTASY IS *NOT* INSPIRED BY ANIME. Which is making me chuckle like a school girl who just saw her first penis.

saying that japanese rpg quality is swindling because they use japanese troupe which can be found on japanese anime seems to me like an elaborate way of saying "JAPAN SUX" especialy since a good chunk of these troupe are older than time itself and sometimes can even be found on things like freakin star wars

(http://lh3.ggpht.com/haymansbeard/RrFkGaI8arI/AAAAAAAAAI4/QdCbNRmw-ag/s512/Obi+Wan+Kenobi+01+Large.JPG)

IT'S THE OLD MAN THAT TEACH STUFF TO THE HERO! CLEARLY A PRODUCT OF ANIME!

The argument isn't that because an old man is in your party, that it's an anime cliche. The argument is the whole package:

- The energetic lead (this can, sometimes be interchanged), often naive to a fault (Fei, Zidane, Tidus, Vaan)
- The cautious female lead, who ends up falling for the main character. She's strong, and thinks she can do anything, and is naive to a point. If you have a female lead, make her tsundere or not know what love means. (Elly, Celes, Tifa, Terra, Garnet, Rinoa, Yuna, Ashe)
- The old man (who often doesn't even appear to be that old) who gives the main character advice. Sometimes will be sarcastic to a fault. (too many to list)
- The preppy girl who always shouts words of advice, often the kid in the party. (Yuffie, Selphie, Rikku, arguably Vanille)
- The furry. Often talks. (Kimahri, Red XIII, Freya)
- The "cool" guy. Either he has a shady past or throws zingers. (Vincent, Irvine, Amarant, Balthier)
- The guy who is completely hopeless, has doubts, low self-esteem, something like that (Zell, Wakka, Hope, Freya can kind of fit this category).
- The kid. (too many to list)

Sometimes games take these tropes and flip them though. For example, in FF9, Steiner.

Also, the word is tropes. A troupe is a group. I'm sure some of them are cultural Japanese tropes (for example, HOW MANY TIMES HAVE I SEEN A FEMALE CHARACTER CUT HER HAIR BECAUSE SOMETHING BAD HAPPENED?!?!) but I've seen these same tropes so many times in anime, it's not even funny. All I did here was list the character tropes, and I'm missing many. I didn't even bother listing storyline or plot tropes. It has gotten to the point where I am able to predict what happens in whatever anime I watch or j-rpg I play before I get the game.

Show me many jrpgs that don't have this party makeup. Or rather, show me many FF's, 7 and up.

I'm not saying every element of FF has been influenced by anime, but an overwhelming amount of the storytelling has obviously been inspired by anime and it is apparent the older I get. Many of these tropes and cliche pervade other jrpgs, but also anime.

There's nothing wrong with that. Until you see it every game.

Few games such as Suikoden (which uses anime inspirations but not to a tee), Final Fantasy Tactics, Vagrant Story, Tactics Ogre, and an assortment of SMT games tend to be exceptions. Those are Japanese, and they aren't insulting or complete generic either.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 16, 2010, 06:13:45 PM
To finalize my argument:

[youtube=560,345]ZdWifJioVoo[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]EWZCvn1Fpjc[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]DNLKIeyIaP0[/youtube]

Now. Convince me why j-drama influences FF, aside from romance.

Being anime inspired isn't bad. I've watched some really great anime in my time. But I still have yet to play the Now and Then, Here and There j-jrpg equivalent, or something in that area. That's because while many anime writers are hacks, they still have to devote much of their time to storyline because that's all it is: story. So you'll occasionally have great writing/storytelling in an anime. Whereas jrpg writers obviously just pick and choose what their favorite anime cliche at the moment is and fuse that into the plot.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 16, 2010, 07:00:59 PM
Why do you keep bringing up mechanical designs, summon animations, and attacks.  I thought you were talking about stories?  When Lightning uses the Odin summon and cherry blossoms fall everywhere...that's not anime.  When lightning does Odin's finisher where she slashes through an enemy and pauses and waits and the enemy goes URGHH and dies....that's not anime.  These things are part of what makes up Japan.  Just like the shy girl who can't tell her feelings, or the overly enthusiastic lead who doesn't think of the consequences of their actions.  Or hey, the comic relief who guess what?  Is part of Western media as well! 

Yes FF draws inspirations from anime.  Anime is PART OF JAPANESE CULTURE.  Any form of art will draw inspiration from the culture the person making it has grown up in.  This includes: movies, dramas, anime, manga, novels, plays, sports, school, work, etc...you are trying to assign all the stereotypes/archetypes/tropes of Japan solely to anime and then go "lol, anime" as a reason why jrpg writing sucks.  Wouldn't it be easier to just admit that what does it for Japan doesn't do it for you anymore?  Some people like that stuff and that's why it's still being used.  I dig cherry blossoms and 1 hit pause kills and I like comic relief characters if they're funny or cute girls.  If you don't like that kind of stuff stick to blood orcs and elf sex.  That stuff doesn't do much for me but I don't try to talk it down as "lol, D&D" I just don't play those games because they don't fit with my tastes.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: MCD on January 16, 2010, 07:11:48 PM
If you don't like that kind of stuff stick to blood orcs and elf sex.  That stuff doesn't do much for me but I don't try to talk it down as "lol, D&D" I just don't play those games because they don't fit with my tastes.
says the berserk cigarillo.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Bebpo on January 16, 2010, 07:12:37 PM
There is, but I don't see FF being about harems or catgirls or lolis or glasses girls, etc...  Like say:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/bebpo/Starocean4Anime.jpg)
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 16, 2010, 07:17:28 PM
dude himuro one part of your argument is that one of the ffix summon is a robot,that's really distinguished mentally-challenged no matter what,would it have been better if it was a godzillesque monster or would that have been to much japanese too and you would go around saying that rpg are inspired by japanese kaiju movie?

it also seems awfull easy to generalize character like you do in that list,freya is a giant rat so she is "ZE FURRY" the rest doesn't matter and here's the shocker

tropes are not bad (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad)
it doesn't matter freya is a giant rat,she works as a character,that's all it matters

if anything we should do the other way around and i should ask you to show me an anime that features the kid,the old guy,the furry,the preppy girl,the cautious female lead and the energetic hero (apparently according to my sources anime these days only feature little girls) ALL AT ONCE

here is another funny thing,i searched for haircut tropes and i got an article and what was the pic allegated with it?

(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/mulan4.jpg)

CLEARLY ANOTHER PRODUCT INSIPIRED BY ANIME!

to me it sounds like you just need a more original jrpg! you want a more original jrpg? try this one
http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=mmr
or better yet the ps2 sequel

and lighting is clearly a Lady of war (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LadyOfWar) so you fail!

Quote
Yes FF draws inspirations from anime.  Anime is PART OF JAPANESE CULTURE.  Any form of art will draw inspiration from the culture the person making it has grown up in.  This includes: movies, dramas, anime, manga, novels, plays, sports, school, work, etc...you are trying to assign all the stereotypes/archetypes/tropes of Japan solely to anime and then go "lol, anime" as a reason why jrpg writing sucks
pretty much

Quote
TROPE NOT TROUPE
natel :teehee
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: MCD on January 16, 2010, 07:18:07 PM
i agree with bebpo, i've watched many animu and ff13 still feels like...an ff game?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 16, 2010, 07:43:55 PM
oh i forgot to add,i just got to the ultra grindtastic statue that give you 8 JP with a single lv 5 doom cast,i'm thinking of grinding at least long enough to get double wielding for butz and galuf so i can finaly quit the ninja class,maybe it's a good time to get rapid fire too... tough i guess it's not like i can combine the two unless i go bare...
should i?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Nintendosbooger on January 16, 2010, 08:04:27 PM
I don't think it has anything to do with anime, the Japanese culture, or Japan, to be honest.

The traditional jRPG story and character template borrow heavily from post-Tolkien fantasy literature, including the overzealous village-boy-turned-hero, the strong willed damsel, the mysterious rebel, and the overshadowing dark lord. It's not so much that some gamers hate the Japanese elements in these formulaic games but the fact that a majority of jRPGs have been reluctant to overhaul itself from an antiquated fantasy storytelling blueprint that is no longer utilized as much now in fantasy as it once did in the era of Tolkien, Robert E. Howard, C.S. Lewis, and Lloyd Alexander. In short, I don't believe some gamers hate jRPGs because of the anime elements; I just think they're tired of the extremely outdated scheme of fantasy storytelling and character development.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 16, 2010, 09:48:19 PM
Confession time: I haven't played any of the DQ's aside from Dragon Warrior. Maybe I should spend a month or two on the series
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: demi on January 16, 2010, 09:49:18 PM
^ I'd definitely suggest to start straight at DQ3 SNES (translation). Skip 7 and go to 8. You're good to go, really.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: OptimoPeach on January 16, 2010, 11:07:38 PM
I forgot that I actually downloaded the DS port for IV when it leaked but kinda lost interest. Seemed a tad generic, and those absurd accents were a turnoff. Maybe I'll warm up to it after a few of the others, though.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 17, 2010, 10:02:40 AM
i don't like 3,enemies come in huge groups and fights take forever and are frequent and really it's just like any other rpg you can find anywhere else on the nes/snes
i would give the DS remake of 4 another chance or if you don't want,give a spin to 5

anyway i grinded the statues a little and then got bored so decided to went on with the game tough i guess i really needed it since i was badly hurting for money
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 17, 2010, 10:09:43 AM
Why do you keep bringing up mechanical designs, summon animations, and attacks.  I thought you were talking about stories?  When Lightning uses the Odin summon and cherry blossoms fall everywhere...that's not anime.  When lightning does Odin's finisher where she slashes through an enemy and pauses and waits and the enemy goes URGHH and dies....that's not anime.  These things are part of what makes up Japan.  Just like the shy girl who can't tell her feelings, or the overly enthusiastic lead who doesn't think of the consequences of their actions.  Or hey, the comic relief who guess what?  Is part of Western media as well! 

Yes FF draws inspirations from anime.  Anime is PART OF JAPANESE CULTURE.  Any form of art will draw inspiration from the culture the person making it has grown up in.  This includes: movies, dramas, anime, manga, novels, plays, sports, school, work, etc...you are trying to assign all the stereotypes/archetypes/tropes of Japan solely to anime and then go "lol, anime" as a reason why jrpg writing sucks.  Wouldn't it be easier to just admit that what does it for Japan doesn't do it for you anymore?  Some people like that stuff and that's why it's still being used.  I dig cherry blossoms and 1 hit pause kills and I like comic relief characters if they're funny or cute girls.  If you don't like that kind of stuff stick to blood orcs and elf sex.  That stuff doesn't do much for me but I don't try to talk it down as "lol, D&D" I just don't play those games because they don't fit with my tastes.

Saying that Japan doesn't do it for me anymore would be a total lie, though. It has nothing to do blood and orcs. I don't think the majority of western rpgs have great writing either. But at least they aren't insulting or annoying as a grown adult.

Also, an overwhelming amount of my favorite Japanese properties are full of blood and death and have dark stories. So I don't get this "blood and orcs" thing.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: tiesto on January 17, 2010, 10:11:12 AM
There is, but I don't see FF being about harems or catgirls or lolis or glasses girls, etc...  Like say:

Heh heh, is liking girls who wear glasses a fetish now or something? I guess I am a hardcore fetishist then, lots of my g/fs wear them :P
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 17, 2010, 10:14:05 AM
There is, but I don't see FF being about harems or catgirls or lolis or glasses girls, etc...  Like say:

Heh heh, is liking girls who wear glasses a fetish now or something? I guess I am a hardcore fetishist then, lots of my g/fs wear them :P

actualy yea,it's called a meganeko (or maybe its nekko with two k)
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=meganeko
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/Meganekko
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: tiesto on January 17, 2010, 10:23:54 AM
Confession time: I haven't played any of the DQ's aside from Dragon Warrior. Maybe I should spend a month or two on the series

It's a fun series.  DQ1 is nothing but a pure grind but it's at least short.  DQ2 I can't even enjoy playing anymore.   DQ3 is where the series turns on the gas and you should definitely take demi's advice and play the translated SFC version.  DQ4 is awesome, play the DS version over the NES version though, because otherwise you are at the mercy of some interesting party AI.  DQ5 is one of the best in the series.  If you're playing it now, you should probably go with the DS version, but there's an English patch coming for the PS2 version, which is really the one to play.

DQ6 I can't say much about for another couple of weeks, as I'm yet to play it.  DQ7 is really damn long and it's a lot of fun but it is no fooling about a hundred hours to finish if you go at a fairly quick pace.  DQ8 is one of my least favourites, but it's definitely the most technically impressive of the series.  Great English voice acting, and the game is just beautiful to look at and explore the world in, but because of all that, the game has a bit of loading issues and overall feels pretty slow.  DQ9 is wicked but it isn't in English yet.

Yeah, I will echo a lot of Oscar's thoughts here... DQ1 is fun in a super-primitive way. It's very quick-paced, grind-heavy, but it's one of the most "pick up and play" RPGs ever. And it's pretty damn nonlinear, all things considering. DQ2 is by far my least favorite of the series, it's the most grind-heavy, and unless you have a guide, you're frequently confused as to where to go next. I spent hours looking for the boots to fly me over the dual towers, because I missed a small patch of shoreline I could travel to that would take me to the tower where they are stored in. The Cave to Rhone is one of the most frustratingly-designed RPG dungeons ever.

3 is considered Japan's favorite game in the series, I believe. It really plays like an oldskool western style RPG polished and balanced superbly - it's got awesome nonlinear elements, an FF style class system, the first introduction of the immigrant town, some neat-o dungeons, and an awesome endgame that gives nods to the series history.

I absolutely love 4, but I wasn't crazy at all about the accent-heavy translation on the DS version. 5 is the best in the series, bar none. Best storytelling, although it's a bit on the easy side. You play as a person from kid to adult, and you have a family during the course of the game, it really feels epic, though things seem a bit rushed towards the end. It's also not terribly long, at least compared to 3 and 4. Plus, the monster recruitment system is fun.

I haven't really played much of 6, I own the SFC cart, but it has lovely graphics and some of my fave music in the series. Also, it's very challenging, but that might just be b/c I played it in Japanese with not very much knowledge of the language. Plus, the storyline is very cool with its "parallel worlds" thing. 7 I am playing through now. It's certainly a great game if you can overlook the awful graphics, but the pacing is slower than molasses. It's also the most story-heavy, with lots of dialogue. The "mini-stories" in the game are probably the best in the series, and you can see how your actions to save each village affect every townsperson, and their relatives in the future. It's worth playing if you want to give up like 100 hours of your life to one game.

8 is the most production-value heavy game in the series, obviously. The storyline wasn't as interesting as 5-7s, but the overworld is second to none, and it has awesome voice acting.

Can't wait to play 9 when it comes to 'murkah. Overall, I would play them all except 2, and maybe 1, depending on how much you like primitive but addicting games.

Play:
1 and 2 - SFC + translation patch
3 - SFC + translation patch (I played on GBC right before the patch came out, and that's not too bad either)
4 - DS if you don't mind an overdone translation; NES if you don't mind crazy AI controlling your party
5 - DS
6 - I'd imagine DS when it comes to the US
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 17, 2010, 10:49:10 AM
dude himuro one part of your argument is that one of the ffix summon is a robot,that's really distinguished mentally-challenged no matter what,would it have been better if it was a godzillesque monster or would that have been to much japanese too and you would go around saying that rpg are inspired by japanese kaiju movie?

Because it's clearly an anime influence and here you and Bebpo are trying to argue that these games are not inspired by anime.

Quote
it also seems awfull easy to generalize character like you do in that list,freya is a giant rat so she is "ZE FURRY" the rest doesn't matter and here's the shocker

tropes are not bad (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad)
it doesn't matter freya is a giant rat,she works as a character,that's all it matters

It's not a generalization. It's a fact and a common cliche within jrpgs and anime.

She doesn't though. She's underdeveloped and is left to rot after her stint in disc 2.


Quote
here is another funny thing,i searched for haircut tropes and i got an article and what was the pic allegated with it?

(http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/mulan4.jpg)

CLEARLY ANOTHER PRODUCT INSIPIRED BY ANIME!

You're grasping.

Quote
to me it sounds like you just need a more original jrpg! you want a more original jrpg? try this one
http://agtp.romhack.net/project.php?id=mmr
or better yet the ps2 sequel

A more original jrpg that actually has good writing ala SMT games would really go a long way for me, but we're talking about FF.

Quote
and lighting is clearly a Lady of war (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LadyOfWar) so you fail!

She's the type of character who is hardened and stoic at first, but eventually softens up, falls in love, and wants babies by the game's end. I am 100% sure this will happen.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 17, 2010, 11:02:27 AM
Quote
if anything we should do the other way around and i should ask you to show me an anime that features the kid,the old guy,the furry,the preppy girl,the cautious female lead and the energetic hero (apparently according to my sources anime these days only feature little girls) ALL AT ONCE

Are you fuckin kidding me? Aight. This is easy.

Although it's inspired by Journey to the West, the personalities of the characters are completely different aside from Son Goku and Sun Wukong.

Dragon Ball

Energetic hero/the kid - Goku

(http://i45.tinypic.com/2mcyhad.jpg)

The naive tomboy/kinda tsundere in that she's bi-polar - Bulma

(http://i47.tinypic.com/s4uts5.jpg)

The cool guy - Yamcha

(http://i50.tinypic.com/4zugbk.jpg)

The furry/talking animal - Oolong

(http://i48.tinypic.com/30ni2dg.jpg)

The old man:

(http://i50.tinypic.com/15qepm9.jpg)

Now, I repeat. I heart (some) anime and I heart Dragon Ball. So these cliches and tropes aren't bad. But when you see this in almost every jrpg, it gets more than a little old.

And once again, I not yet ONCE touched on plot and story telling. Saving the world extends past anime, but that gets more than a little old as well.

Ya know whut? I'm gonna keep going with this. I'll keep posting more as I remember which ones fit the criteria. Once you've seen as much anime as I have, it becomes hard to remember WHAT HAD WHAT.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 17, 2010, 11:12:52 AM
There is, but I don't see FF being about harems or catgirls or lolis or glasses girls, etc...  Like say:

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v297/bebpo/Starocean4Anime.jpg)

Loli - Eiko

(http://i45.tinypic.com/20i7w9w.jpg)

Glasses girl - Jihl

(http://www.videogamesblogger.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/jihl-nabaat-in-final-fantasy-13.jpg)

Big titties childhood friend - Tifa

(http://i48.tinypic.com/11c9s45.jpg)
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 17, 2010, 11:22:24 AM
And despite all of this, jrpgs lack the storytelling diversity of anime, especially in regards to setting. wrpgs fail with the same thing.

:bow modern settings :bow2
:bow modern haircuts :bow2
:bow modern fashion :bow2

:piss fantasy :piss2
:piss sci-fi :piss2

Where's my jrpg equivalent of Cowboy Bebop?

(http://www.nerdfellowship.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/cowboy_bebop.jpg)

LOL

Even Cowboy Bebop fits the criteria. ENERGETIC LEAD, TOMBOY GIRL, OLD MAN WHO'S NOT REALLY ALL THAT OLD, LITTLE PREPPY KID, AND A DOG

Where's my Now and Then, Here and There jrpg equivalent?

(http://gardenvarietyrealist.files.wordpress.com/2007/09/191.jpg)

Where's my Rurouni Kenshin: Trust and Betrayal equivalent?

(http://i49.tinypic.com/ehgnlc.jpg)

This is why I lol when people propose games as art. Storytelling just isn't a priority (and in many cases shouldn't be). Games aren't even as varied as anime. Let that sink in: ANIME.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 17, 2010, 11:25:46 AM
I would love DQ3 re-done on the DS. That's the penultimate NES RPG.

Oh well, the GBC one is pretty great.

So would I. Sux.

6 stands as the only DQ I haven't played aside from the unreleased 9.

I haven't beaten 3 or 7. 7 is too long and gets boring. 3, I just haven't beaten it yet.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 17, 2010, 11:45:08 AM
Quote
You're grasping.
i'm grasping because i find example that aren't set in anime stone?
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FiveManBand
mmm this sounds like what you describe
ehy look! there are example for comic books and film
clearly everything is inspired by animes

dude i do agree that jrpg could use more variety but you are being distinguished mentally-challenged about it by using example such as "one of the character of a game i have even't played has glasses" and "one of the attack you use in final fantasy 9 is a giant robot" and "final fantasy 9 has a little girl who looks like a troll so IT'S CLEARLY THERE BECAUSE ANIME HAS LOLI"

reading what you are writing they should do a rpg featuring only tally muscle builder that way they don't have to touch any sort of trope

and really just to see how much force pushing you are doing,oolong barely matters in the plot after the first plot and they put in there because guess what? in the journey of the west plot there is a shape shifting pig! yamcha is the cool guy? really?

 
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: Himu on January 17, 2010, 11:47:06 AM
dude i do agree that jrpg could use more variety but you are being distinguished mentally-challenged about it by using example such as "one of the character of a game i have even't played has glasses" and "one of the attack you use in final fantasy 9 is a giant robot" and "final fantasy 9 has a little girl who looks like a troll so IT'S CLEARLY THERE BECAUSE ANIME HAS LOLI"

 

I'm trolling.
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 17, 2010, 11:49:21 AM
dude i do agree that jrpg could use more variety but you are being distinguished mentally-challenged about it by using example such as "one of the character of a game i have even't played has glasses" and "one of the attack you use in final fantasy 9 is a giant robot" and "final fantasy 9 has a little girl who looks like a troll so IT'S CLEARLY THERE BECAUSE ANIME HAS LOLI"

 

I'm trolling.

 >:(
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: tiesto on January 17, 2010, 12:27:51 PM
Holy shit, looking at the AGTP website, no idea that Mystic Ark was out. Anybody play it yet?
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 17, 2010, 12:39:31 PM
Holy shit, looking at the AGTP website, no idea that Mystic Ark was out. Anybody play it yet?
i played it for a bit,basicaly you start on an empty island with random items on it and to each item is related a world,the first world is about two faction of pirate cats facing each other and the second is about
spoiler (click to show/hide)
people living inside giant vegetables and fruit
[close]
so basicaly it's dragon quest 7 plot without all the shard search
after clearing the first world you get 5 figurines and each figurine represent a party member which you can transform out of his figurine form by infusing him with a soul

i stopped playing after a while,it wasn't bad but it just didn't click with me
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: magus on January 17, 2010, 07:06:15 PM
well i'm off to fight gilgamesh for the second time but i'm not sure i want to continue,i feel like i've played long enough to realize if i was wrong or right about final fantasy v and i don't feel like continuing
Title: Re: Your toughts on SNES&NES Final Fantasies?
Post by: tiesto on January 18, 2010, 09:03:21 AM
Holy shit, looking at the AGTP website, no idea that Mystic Ark was out. Anybody play it yet?
i played it for a bit,basicaly you start on an empty island with random items on it and to each item is related a world,the first world is about two faction of pirate cats facing each other and the second is about
spoiler (click to show/hide)
people living inside giant vegetables and fruit
[close]
so basicaly it's dragon quest 7 plot without all the shard search
after clearing the first world you get 5 figurines and each figurine represent a party member which you can transform out of his figurine form by infusing him with a soul

i stopped playing after a while,it wasn't bad but it just didn't click with me


Hmm, sounds like it could be pretty interesting. Color palette is pretty muted for a SFC RPG, I may have to give it a play.