1. Israel announces plans to build 1,600 new homes in Jerusalem.
2. This pisses off the militant wing of Hamas so they try to set us up the bomb but are spotted by Israeli soldiers. 2 soldiers end up getting killed.
3. Israeli jets perform air strikes over Gaza.
I guess I'm just a filthy anti-Semite but any way you parse it, Israel is the one who set all this bullshit off in the first place.
I don't really give a fuck about the religious/cultural issues here, but for practical reasons, I kinda feel like the Palestinians should just give up on Jerusalem. Trying to set up part of the city that Jews identify with as their cultural center as a Palestinian capital just isn't going to work and is only going to cause prolonged violence.This isn't about Jerusalem. It's about Netanyahu's proposed new settlements that Obama disapproved of.
Move the Palestinians to Detroit, I hear there's a lot of properties for sale there. You can buy a home for like five bucks, seriously.
Move the Palestinians to Detroit, I hear there's a lot of properties for sale there. You can buy a home for like five bucks, seriously.Never been to Dearborn? Its one of the largest concentrations of middle-easterners in the country.
Move the Palestinians to Detroit, I hear there's a lot of properties for sale there. You can buy a home for like five bucks, seriously.
Hell, they'd have plenty of family members in Dearborn, Michigan :smug
The mayor of Detroit was just talking about turning many of Detroit's empty acres of nothingness into urban farms to create jobs and tax revenue. Adding Palestinians would speed things up considerably and make Michigan one of the most successful states in the nation.
Not too late to run for governor of Michigan. Who wants to be my ltd. gov?
just relocate the Palestinians in Wyoming, problem solved
I said that I don't give a fuck.
But I'm pretty damn sure that everyone in the region does give a fuck.
Also, please keep this civil, even if you disagree with me. I'm sick of this useless bickering.
[youtube=560,345]3UO6YlkYNJQ[/youtube]
Maybe if you fucking losers like PD and Ichi would get laid, you'd know wtf Green Shinobi is talking about.
Green Shinobi tells a bunch of foreigners to give up their aspirations of fully enfranchised residency, and just live somewhere else.
I swear I did not create this thread for the purpose of GS annihilations, but I certainly approve.
It's so important, I'm sure we're going to figure out a way to settle it. We've got a guy with a 160 IQ in the thread, after all. I'm sure no one thought of grabbing someone like that to take to a session of peace talks.
Is it too late to bus all the black people back to Africa?
Are blacks and whites bombing the fuck out of each other in America? Is the situation even remotely the same?
Just occurred to me that Green Shinobi is suggesting that this conflict could be solved if only one side would say "Hey, this constant, pointless conflict is getting us nowhere and we'd be better off just walking away and not caring so damn much, rather than miring ourselves further in an endless cycle of recriminations and bitterness."
Jesus fucking Christ in pink panties, now we're on black nationalism? :rofl
Only on EB could a thread ostensibly about Israel and Palestine devolve into GS self-annihilation, to discussion of black nationalism, to discussion of black porn stars.
I don't really give a fuck about the religious/cultural issues here, but for practical reasons, I kinda feel like the Palestinians should just give up on Jerusalem. Trying to set up part of the city that Jews identify with as their cultural center as a Palestinian capital just isn't going to work and is only going to cause prolonged violence.
Is this news fake or what? I can't find anything on it in the polish media or at CNN.
I didn't see any annihilation.
I saw The Business and a few others shitting up the thread and Willco and Ichirou posting non sequiturs.
But annihilation there was none.
What's funny is that I was trying pretty hard to keep the thread civil and on topic. :lol
back on topicspoiler (click to show/hide)http://xhamster.com/movies/19207/forbidden_sex_in_the_yeshiva.html[close]
edit: omg :lol
Yeah, but PD hasn't said anything as egregiously dumb as you did with your first post in this thread.
Suggesting that Palestinians just voluntarily leave Jerusalem suggests you either don't realize how important the city is to Palestinian cultural and national identity, or you think that it's somehow more likely that one side in the conflict would completely surrender Jerusalem rather than partially surrender it.
Yeah, but PD hasn't said anything as egregiously dumb as you did with your first post in this thread.
Suggesting that Palestinians just voluntarily leave Jerusalem suggests you either don't realize how important the city is to Palestinian cultural and national identity, or you think that it's somehow more likely that one side in the conflict would completely surrender Jerusalem rather than partially surrender it.
Also, I'm well aware of the importance of Jerusalem to Muslim cultures, but I guess my line of thinking has been "fuck it, they'd still have Mecca and Medina." Is that way off base?
Also, I'm well aware of the importance of Jerusalem to Muslim cultures, but I guess my line of thinking has been "fuck it, they'd still have Mecca and Medina." Is that way off base?
What if someone chopped off your dick and was like "fuck it, he still got his balls"?
Suggesting that Palestinians just voluntarily leave Jerusalem suggests you either don't realize how important the city is to Palestinian cultural and national identity
Also, I'm well aware of the importance of Jerusalem to Muslim cultures, but I guess my line of thinking has been "fuck it, they'd still have Mecca and Medina." Is that way off base?
Suggesting that Palestinians just voluntarily leave Jerusalem suggests you either don't realize how important the city is to Palestinian cultural and national identity
Also, I'm well aware of the importance of Jerusalem to Muslim cultures, but I guess my line of thinking has been "fuck it, they'd still have Mecca and Medina." Is that way off base?
This is actually a very, very, very important distinction to make.
...wow.
You know, Mandark, God bless you, man.
...wow.
You know, Mandark, God bless you, man.
Don't you have a co-teacher to be ogling or something?
I've made more honest attempts at discussion than you have in your own thread.
...wow.
You know, Mandark, God bless you, man.
Don't you have a co-teacher to be ogling or something?
I've made more honest attempts at discussion than you have in your own thread.
You took a gigantic steaming shit on my thread. It's now become "A Primer for Green Shinobi" since your posts have made it clear you're utterly fucking clueless about what's going on in the Middle East (not that that's stopped you from making moronic declarative statements and then backtracking from them using weasel words).
I wish there was a way so that you could simply not be able to post on any threads I make, since you fucking ruin everything you touch.
Suggesting that Palestinians just voluntarily leave Jerusalem suggests you either don't realize how important the city is to Palestinian cultural and national identity
Also, I'm well aware of the importance of Jerusalem to Muslim cultures, but I guess my line of thinking has been "fuck it, they'd still have Mecca and Medina." Is that way off base?
This is actually a very, very, very important distinction to make.
Gotcha. That actually occurred to me just after I made that post, but whatever.
But you don't think the other idea is feasible at all? Palestinians give up Jerusalem, but they get a bunch of land elsewhere, and the Israelis leave them the fuck alone?
If that's not feasible, what could happen to make the split-city solution more workable?
Edit: just saw Wrath's post.
So the answer is really that there's no possible compromise?
...wow.
You know, Mandark, God bless you, man.
Don't you have a co-teacher to be ogling or something?
I've made more honest attempts at discussion than you have in your own thread.
You took a gigantic steaming shit on my thread. It's now become "A Primer for Green Shinobi" since your posts have made it clear you're utterly fucking clueless about what's going on in the Middle East (not that that's stopped you from making moronic declarative statements and then backtracking from them using weasel words).
I wish there was a way so that you could simply not be able to post on any threads I make, since you fucking ruin everything you touch.
The Business took a shit on your thread on the first page. And I'd wager my whole package that I know considerably more about politics than you do, overall.
Also what the fuck are weasel words? :lol I can talk to animals now?
The forum has taken a huge fucking nosedive in quality since you returned in December; I wish more people would put two and two together.
The forum has taken a huge fucking nosedive in quality since you returned in December; I wish more people would put two and two together.
Also what the fuck are weasel words? :lol I can talk to animals now?
You've never heard the term "weasel words"? Seriously?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
You are a fucking moron.
It's not like I know much about the conflict, but it boggles my mind that you can seriously suggest one side simply give up Jerusalem as if it's a used car. The land has deep cultural and religious importance for both the Israelis and Palestinians that goes back thousands of years.
You must be trolling, there's no other explanation
It's not like I know much about the conflict, but it boggles my mind that you can seriously suggest one side simply give up Jerusalem as if it's a used car. The land has deep cultural and religious importance for both the Israelis and Palestinians that goes back thousands of years.
You must be trolling, there's no other explanation
Or maybe I feel like this is really the only possible solution to the problem?
You've never heard the term "weasel words"? Seriously?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weasel_word
You are a fucking moron.
Well I have now. And looking at the definition of that phrase, coupled with your application of it, I'm wondering if I should break out the Inigo Montoya jpg now, or if you'll be content to run along and fester in your idiocy?
But you don't think the other idea is feasible at all? Palestinians give up Jerusalem, but they get a bunch of land elsewhere, and the Israelis leave them the fuck alone?
Obviously the new settlements will have to stop. So how hard should the U.S. lean on Israel on this issue?Regardless, the Obama administration can't lean hard enough because it will be labeled as anti-semitic.
you sound like a douche on the first page
Also, please keep this civil, even if you disagree with me. I'm sick of this useless bickering.
Fuck you.
I know it annoys you and GS, Ichi. But overall you two bickering is more of an annoyance to us bystanders.Green Shinobi you see the irony here?
Fucking get over this internet intellectual bullshit you two are on, and fucking stop.
This isn't a movie thread, Ichirou.
Quit pretending that you know anything.
Edit: you're right, Fresh Prince. It's Friday evening anyway.
I know it annoys you and GS, Ichi. But overall you two bickering is more of an annoyance to us bystanders.
Fucking get over this internet intellectual bullshit you two are on, and fucking stop.
Okay, so if we're operating under the assumption that the Palestinians leaving Jerusalem is completely out of the question, what compromise could be reached at that point, and what what would need to happen to make it a reality?
Obviously the new settlements will have to stop. So how hard should the U.S. lean on Israel on this issue?
This isn't Israel/Palestine 101 and I'm not your polisci tutor. I'm not gonna spend time rehashing all the basic issues then try to game out the negotiation of a peace that's been elusive for six decades.
Jesus Christ, will this ever end?
Green Shinobi vs. Ichirou
Palestine vs. Israel
Eerie parallel in this thread. Both locked in conflicts that will never end, lol.
Jesus Christ, will this ever end?
Green Shinobi vs. Ichirou
Palestine vs. Israel
Eerie parallel in this thread. Both locked in conflicts that will never end, lol.
You stole my next post right out of my brain.
This isn't Israel/Palestine 101 and I'm not your polisci tutor. I'm not gonna spend time rehashing all the basic issues then try to game out the negotiation of a peace that's been elusive for six decades.
This isn't Israel/Palestine 101 and I'm not your polisci tutor. I'm not gonna spend time rehashing all the basic issues then try to game out the negotiation of a peace that's been elusive for six decades.
Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Mandark. I'm familiar with the basic issues, including the fact that the Palestinians don't want to leave the city. Overlooked by all you geniuses was the fact that I never once said that the Palestinians had to like the compromise. Nor did I say that such a thing would be right, or even "not reprehensible." Just that I thought it was the only realistic solution.
If you can't propose another realistic solution, then why even bother responding?
Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?
Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?
Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Willco.
Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?
Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?
Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Willco.
lawl
edit: ^^^^^double lawl ^^^^^^^
Overlooked by all you geniuses was the fact that I never once said that the Palestinians had to like the compromise.
Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?
Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Willco.
lawl
edit: ^^^^^double lawl ^^^^^^^
Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Bloodwake.
Overlooked by all you geniuses was the fact that I never once said that the Palestinians had to like the compromise.
They'd better damn well like any compromise enough to accept it in the long term, otherwise there won't be the political will to sustain it and we're right back to bombs and airstrikes and brainstorming sessions about what new compromise could be reached.
It's not my job to solve the most impossible issue in the modern era of international conflict resolution. But that doesn't mean I can't recognize a terrible idea when I read one, or that I should demur from being honest about it until I've brought peace to the region.
Overlooking the fact that I didn't even ask for specifics. I just asked if you thought a peaceful compromise was possible that included Palestinians keeping part of Jerusalem.
But, as I said, I'm done.
Okay, so if we're operating under the assumption that the Palestinians leaving Jerusalem is completely out of the question, what compromise could be reached at that point, and what what would need to happen to make it a reality?
Obviously the new settlements will have to stop. So how hard should the U.S. lean on Israel on this issue?
Those are specifics. Please stop retconning.
To answer the yes/no question, yes. It's unlikely, but it's the only compromise that's anywhere near reality.
Completely ceding Jerusalem is totally out of the question, and I don't know how you think a compromise that the Palestinian public rejects would be useful. Any leadership that negotiated a deal like that would be replaced immediately. Both sides have to like a compromise enough to stick to it in the long term. This is basic, basic stuff.
You don't know the basics, that became clear when you said they might give up Jerusalem cause they'd still "have Mecca and Medina". Which is fine. There's nothing shameful about not reading up on stuff that doesn't directly affect you, and you don't have to get all bent out of shape when it's pointed out.
Obviously you do give a fuck (possibly without even realizing it-- many people do this and its called making an ill-informed opinion), if you're using a religious/cultural reason to side with the Israelis. History lesson: Jerusalem is in the top three of most important religious/cultural cities in Islam. It was held by Muslims after a short-lived Christian kingdom from 1187 until 1917 (and before then from the 7th century until the 11th century), and it only came under full control of Israel since the Six-Day War in 1967 when they took half of it from Jordan. So in the last 2000+ years, it's only been held by Jews for 43 years.
Maybe the city has deeper religious and cultural claims by the Palestinians than you think?
Edit: clarified something
I love how Israel just gets away with this.
Anyone besides GS, where exactly is the ad hominem in that post?
this thread
That the Palestinians in Jerusalem should undergo a modern Trail of Tears.spoiler (click to show/hide)Not exactly what I meant, but...[close]
I would rather see white women get railed in porn by a black cock rather than a white cock in a black woman. Does that make me racist?
I would rather see white women get railed in porn by a black cock rather than a white cock in a black woman. Does that make me racist?
I would rather see white women get railed in porn by a black cock rather than a white cock in a black woman. Does that make me racist?
No way! Little White Chicks & Big Black Dicks is hella more enticing than Little White Dicks & Big Black Chicks.
Yeah, but PD hasn't said anything as egregiously dumb as you did with your first post in this thread.
Suggesting that Palestinians just voluntarily leave Jerusalem suggests you either don't realize how important the city is to Palestinian cultural and national identity, or you think that it's somehow more likely that one side in the conflict would completely surrender Jerusalem rather than partially surrender it.
So you don't think that the Palestinians would give up Jerusalem if it meant that they could have a completely sovereign state elsewhere in the area, completely free of Israeli interference? And if not now, you don't think this would be a possibility in a generation or so? I mean, really, this is what I was getting at.
Looking for real responses only with this one, guys.
Also, I'm well aware of the importance of Jerusalem to Muslim cultures, but I guess my line of thinking has been "fuck it, they'd still have Mecca and Medina." Is that way off base?
I honestly think that both GS and Ichi should be banned at least for a month to see if they cool off.
For posterity's sake* here's why the Shinobi Accord wouldn't work:
First, Jerusalem is kind of a huge deal for Palestinians. They don't just want a sovereign state somewhere on some land. They want a sovereign state in the land the identify as Palestine, and they think of Jerusalem as its capital. It is their most significant city, culturally and politically.
Even if you could convince the Palestinian leadership to give up on Jerusalem (you couldn't), they'd immediately and completely lose legitimacy and authority in the eyes of the Palestinian street. The leadership would be wholly unable to enforce such an agreement.
Now you have a situation in which a couple hundred thousand Palestinian Jerusalemites have to be forcibly deported from the city, presumably by Israeli and maybe US troops. That's going to cause a very, very bloody intifada. Not just in Jerusalem, but in all the occupied territories. Israel, in turn, will crack down with the usual harsh measures (shutting down access and utilities, killing people).
Eventually, if it goes well, you'll have herded the Palestinians to... "a completely sovereign state elsewhere in the area". Oh dear. We already know that Egypt, Jordan, and the other nearby Arab states don't want to take on Palestinians as citizens, and have resisted that idea for decades. If the new Palestine is made up of the occupied territories minus Jerusalem, then it's sharing a border with Israel and will still serve as a base for rocket and mortar fire by militant Palestinians (which will be damn near all of them at this point).
So you can't expect a sustainable peace from the Palestinian side, and you couldn't expect one from the Israelis either. "But they just got what they wanted!" Yep, and they did it unilaterally with force. Rewarding Israeli irredentism will just encourage more of it.
On top of all this, the United States might as well kiss any other strategic goals in the region goodbye. No Muslim or Arab leader in the area would want to be seen within a hundred yards of the American president after this. Even secret, back-channel diplomacy would be tough; try convincing Iran it doesn't need a nuclear deterrent after this. Hell, you might even see an oil crisis out of it. That's leaving out how the EU would react.
A Palestinian evacuation of Jerusalem isn't an example of effective but callously amoral realpolitik. It's a fantasy that only succeeds by ignoring all the pitfalls and costs that would come along with it.
It's tempting to see a quagmire like the Israeli/Palestine issue and just want to cut the Gordian knot. But great powers redrawing maps without respect to the cultural and political histories of a region don't solve territorial disputes. They create them.spoiler (click to show/hide)*To avoid the inevitable point in the future when someone cites this thread as an annihilation, and GS explains that it wasn't cause nobody seriously explained why his idea wouldn't work, and we go through the whole goddam thing again.[close]
First, Jerusalem is kind of a huge deal for Palestinians. They don't just want a sovereign state somewhere on some land. They want a sovereign state in the land the identify as Palestine, and they think of Jerusalem as its capital. It is their most significant city, culturally and politically.
Interesting thoughts, but why exactly can't Palestinians simply be moved to another area of land as a compromise?
Interesting thoughts, but why exactly can't Palestinians simply be moved to another area of land as a compromise?
That's a very good point you make.
The US has a pilot program where the population of South Ossetia will be relocated to Harlem. If the results are generally positive, the Obama administration hopes to apply this technique to other disputed areas, such as Jerusalem and Kashmir.
Also the OMB projects it will be deficit-neutral, thanks to revenue from a string of fish-out-of-water comedies, and thus it could be passed through reconciliation.
On a serious note bro, I'm just curious why the massive post when GS will just respond with a similar one liner
Plus this was quick to write. Lots of text usually means I didn't spend a lot of time editing it down.yeah.
For posterity's sake* here's why the Shinobi Accord wouldn't work:
First, Jerusalem is kind of a huge deal for Palestinians. They don't just want a sovereign state somewhere on some land. They want a sovereign state in the land the identify as Palestine, and they think of Jerusalem as its capital. It is their most significant city, culturally and politically.
Even if you could convince the Palestinian leadership to give up on Jerusalem (you couldn't), they'd immediately and completely lose legitimacy and authority in the eyes of the Palestinian street. The leadership would be wholly unable to enforce such an agreement.
Now you have a situation in which a couple hundred thousand Palestinian Jerusalemites have to be forcibly deported from the city, presumably by Israeli and maybe US troops. That's going to cause a very, very bloody intifada. Not just in Jerusalem, but in all the occupied territories. Israel, in turn, will crack down with the usual harsh measures (shutting down access and utilities, killing people).
Eventually, if it goes well, you'll have herded the Palestinians to... "a completely sovereign state elsewhere in the area". Oh dear. We already know that Egypt, Jordan, and the other nearby Arab states don't want to take on Palestinians as citizens, and have resisted that idea for decades. If the new Palestine is made up of the occupied territories minus Jerusalem, then it's sharing a border with Israel and will still serve as a base for rocket and mortar fire by militant Palestinians (which will be damn near all of them at this point).
So you can't expect a sustainable peace from the Palestinian side, and you couldn't expect one from the Israelis either. "But they just got what they wanted!" Yep, and they did it unilaterally with force. Rewarding Israeli irredentism will just encourage more of it.
On top of all this, the United States might as well kiss any other strategic goals in the region goodbye. No Muslim or Arab leader in the area would want to be seen within a hundred yards of the American president after this. Even secret, back-channel diplomacy would be tough; try convincing Iran it doesn't need a nuclear deterrent after this. Hell, you might even see an oil crisis out of it. That's leaving out how the EU would react.
A Palestinian evacuation of Jerusalem isn't an example of effective but callously amoral realpolitik. It's a fantasy that only succeeds by ignoring all the pitfalls and costs that would come along with it.
It's tempting to see a quagmire like the Israeli/Palestine issue and just want to cut the Gordian knot. But great powers redrawing maps without respect to the cultural and political histories of a region don't solve territorial disputes. They create them.spoiler (click to show/hide)*To avoid the inevitable point in the future when someone cites this thread as an annihilation, and GS explains that it wasn't cause nobody seriously explained why his idea wouldn't work, and we go through the whole goddam thing again.[close]