Author Topic: Israel vs. Palestine vs. Big Black Cocks (plus a quick lesson on black history!)  (Read 16930 times)

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Mandark

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I know it annoys you and GS, Ichi. But overall you two bickering is more of an annoyance to us bystanders.

Fucking get over this internet intellectual bullshit you two are on, and fucking stop.

YES.  THIS.  THIS RIGHT HERE.

Okay, so if we're operating under the assumption that the Palestinians leaving Jerusalem is completely out of the question, what compromise could be reached at that point, and what what would need to happen to make it a reality?

Obviously the new settlements will have to stop. So how hard should the U.S. lean on Israel on this issue?

This isn't Israel/Palestine 101 and I'm not your polisci tutor.  I'm not gonna spend time rehashing all the basic issues then try to game out the negotiation of a peace that's been elusive for six decades.

Bloodwake

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Jesus Christ, will this ever end?

Green Shinobi vs. Ichirou

Palestine vs. Israel

Eerie parallel in this thread. Both locked in conflicts that will never end, lol.
HLR

The Fake Shemp

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I wonder, when it becomes time to commemorate the "I Have a Dream" speech in a few years, how quickly the original topic will be derailed with discussion of big black cocks.
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Ichirou

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This isn't Israel/Palestine 101 and I'm not your polisci tutor.  I'm not gonna spend time rehashing all the basic issues then try to game out the negotiation of a peace that's been elusive for six decades.

This should have been your first post in the thread.
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Mandark

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Jesus Christ, will this ever end?

Green Shinobi vs. Ichirou

Palestine vs. Israel

Eerie parallel in this thread. Both locked in conflicts that will never end, lol.

You stole my next post right out of my brain.

Bloodwake

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Jesus Christ, will this ever end?

Green Shinobi vs. Ichirou

Palestine vs. Israel

Eerie parallel in this thread. Both locked in conflicts that will never end, lol.

You stole my next post right out of my brain.

The sad thing is this is the most active I've seen the forum while I've been online in a long time. I almost resigned to start posting on GAF again.

Guess there is a positive to all this.
HLR

Green Shinobi

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This isn't Israel/Palestine 101 and I'm not your polisci tutor.  I'm not gonna spend time rehashing all the basic issues then try to game out the negotiation of a peace that's been elusive for six decades.

Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Mandark. I'm familiar with the basic issues, including the fact that the Palestinians don't want to leave the city. Overlooked by all you geniuses was the fact that I never once said that the Palestinians had to like the compromise. Nor did I say that such a thing would be right, or even "not reprehensible." Just that I thought it was the only realistic solution.

If you can't propose another realistic solution, then why even bother responding?

Ichirou

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This isn't Israel/Palestine 101 and I'm not your polisci tutor.  I'm not gonna spend time rehashing all the basic issues then try to game out the negotiation of a peace that's been elusive for six decades.

Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Mandark. I'm familiar with the basic issues, including the fact that the Palestinians don't want to leave the city. Overlooked by all you geniuses was the fact that I never once said that the Palestinians had to like the compromise. Nor did I say that such a thing would be right, or even "not reprehensible." Just that I thought it was the only realistic solution.

If you can't propose another realistic solution, then why even bother responding?

That'll teach you to be nice to him, Mandark.
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Green Shinobi

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Dear God, this is useless.

The entire premise of my initial post is that I think it might be impossible for both sides to peacefully co-inhabit Jerusalem. That was really it in a nutshell.

If you think I'm wrong about this, say so. If not, fuck off.

The Fake Shemp

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Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?
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Ichirou

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Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?

Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Willco.
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The Fake Shemp

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PSP

Bloodwake

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Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?

Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Willco.

lawl

edit: ^^^^^double lawl ^^^^^^^
HLR

Green Shinobi

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Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?

No, you can stay.

Ichirou

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Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?

Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Willco.

lawl

edit: ^^^^^double lawl ^^^^^^^

Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Bloodwake.
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Mandark

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Overlooked by all you geniuses was the fact that I never once said that the Palestinians had to like the compromise.

They'd better damn well like any compromise enough to accept it in the long term, otherwise there won't be the political will to sustain it and we're right back to bombs and airstrikes and brainstorming sessions about what new compromise could be reached.

It's not my job to solve the most impossible issue in the modern era of international conflict resolution.  But that doesn't mean I can't recognize a terrible idea when I read one, or that I should demur from being honest about it until I've brought peace to the region.

Bloodwake

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Also, if you disagree with him, you can still fuck off - right?

Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Willco.

lawl

edit: ^^^^^double lawl ^^^^^^^

Get the fuck out of here with your smug superiority, Bloodwake.

:smug

On that note, going to bed. Evening, gents.
HLR

Green Shinobi

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Overlooked by all you geniuses was the fact that I never once said that the Palestinians had to like the compromise.

They'd better damn well like any compromise enough to accept it in the long term, otherwise there won't be the political will to sustain it and we're right back to bombs and airstrikes and brainstorming sessions about what new compromise could be reached.

It's not my job to solve the most impossible issue in the modern era of international conflict resolution.  But that doesn't mean I can't recognize a terrible idea when I read one, or that I should demur from being honest about it until I've brought peace to the region.

I don't have the political will to sustain this argument.

It's been good everyone; this whole thing could have been easily avoided with just a touch more civility on Page 1, but oh well.

Good to know there are no casualties reported yet. Crossing my fingers that this will continue to be the case.

Mandark

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"Why don't we get the economy back on track by subsidizing the pager industry?  Technology is cyclical."

"That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard!"

"Well, how would you get us back to full employment?"

"I really don't know how that's going to be possible in the next few years."

"Aha!  So why bother even responding when you don't know anything either!?"

Green Shinobi

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Overlooking the fact that I didn't even ask for specifics. I just asked if you thought a peaceful compromise was possible that included Palestinians keeping part of Jerusalem.

But, as I said, I'm done.

drew

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you still sound like a douche

Fresh Prince

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whatever happened to foc?
888

Mandark

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Overlooking the fact that I didn't even ask for specifics. I just asked if you thought a peaceful compromise was possible that included Palestinians keeping part of Jerusalem.

But, as I said, I'm done.

Okay, so if we're operating under the assumption that the Palestinians leaving Jerusalem is completely out of the question, what compromise could be reached at that point, and what what would need to happen to make it a reality?

Obviously the new settlements will have to stop. So how hard should the U.S. lean on Israel on this issue?

Those are specifics.  Please stop retconning.

To answer the yes/no question, yes.  It's unlikely, but it's the only compromise that's anywhere near reality.

Completely ceding Jerusalem is totally out of the question, and I don't know how you think a compromise that the Palestinian public rejects would be useful.  Any leadership that negotiated a deal like that would be replaced immediately.  Both sides have to like a compromise enough to stick to it in the long term.  This is basic, basic stuff.

You don't know the basics, that became clear when you said they might give up Jerusalem cause they'd still "have Mecca and Medina".  Which is fine.  There's nothing shameful about not reading up on stuff that doesn't directly affect you, and you don't have to get all bent out of shape when it's pointed out.

The Fake Shemp

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Got a pretty sweet gig and sold out. Now he spends his free time and money buying material items that he hopes will fill the empty void that only being a real filmmaker can satisfy.
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Fresh Prince

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damn i kinda hoped he joined a militia or something  :'(
888

Green Shinobi

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Re: Breaking News: Israeli jets attack targets in Gaza, CNN TV reports
« Reply #145 on: April 02, 2010, 07:02:23 AM »
Those are specifics.  Please stop retconning.

To answer the yes/no question, yes.  It's unlikely, but it's the only compromise that's anywhere near reality.

Completely ceding Jerusalem is totally out of the question, and I don't know how you think a compromise that the Palestinian public rejects would be useful.  Any leadership that negotiated a deal like that would be replaced immediately.  Both sides have to like a compromise enough to stick to it in the long term.  This is basic, basic stuff.

It's actually quite clear that you didn't have a handle on what I was suggesting. I was suggesting that the only possible way to achieve peace might be to relocate the Palestinians to lands outside of Jerusalem which would become their sovereign state. I never said that this would have to be voluntary. Hence why I never said that such a thing would be right or even "not reprehensible."

Quote
You don't know the basics, that became clear when you said they might give up Jerusalem cause they'd still "have Mecca and Medina".  Which is fine.  There's nothing shameful about not reading up on stuff that doesn't directly affect you, and you don't have to get all bent out of shape when it's pointed out.

I was caught up in responding to this:

Obviously you do give a fuck (possibly without even realizing it-- many people do this and its called making an ill-informed opinion), if you're using a religious/cultural reason to side with the Israelis.  History lesson:  Jerusalem is in the top three of most important religious/cultural cities in Islam.  It was held by Muslims after a short-lived Christian kingdom from 1187 until 1917 (and before then from the 7th century until the 11th century), and it only came under full control of Israel since the Six-Day War in 1967 when they took half of it from Jordan.  So in the last 2000+ years, it's only been held by Jews for 43 years.

Maybe the city has deeper religious and cultural claims by the Palestinians than you think?

Edit: clarified something

Furthermore, I wouldn't get bent out of shape at all if people would voice their disagreements without resorting to ad hominems IN THE FIRST FUCKING POST.

Lastly, I don't know why you keep going with this when I've said twice now that I'm willing to call it a night on this one.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 07:29:13 AM by Green Shinobi »

Green Shinobi

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I love how Israel just gets away with this.

I'd be in favor of sanctions, definitely.

Green Shinobi

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Anyone besides GS, where exactly is the ad hominem in that post?  

Wasn't referring to that post. Was referring to a general pattern. Never mind.

Lastly, before I head out for the night, I want to say that the above wouldn't be my ideal solution to the problem.

My ideal solution to the problem would be to draw a line somewhere across the city and give the Palestinians their districts as well as the West Bank, Gaza Strip, etc. Then we'd tell the Israelis that they'd get buttfucked with sanctions if they built any settlements in the Palestinian side, but we'd tell the Palestinians that we'd let Israel go hog-wild if they didn't prevent violence on their end.

Both sides would be pissed, and Israel would be really fucking pissed about having its sovereignty messed with, but since neither side can act like adults about this, that might be the only thing to do.
« Last Edit: April 02, 2010, 07:17:03 AM by Green Shinobi »

Green Shinobi

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Because when you stop believing in Santa, it just means you have to accept that Mommy and Daddy can't afford that Christmas present you want.

When you stop believing in God, it means you have to accept that all that waits for you after death is darkness not even a bat would like.

Powerslave

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Express you don't believe in God on the internet and watch your popularity rise by 400%

Powerslave

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It's the new thing for cool kids to do to show their ultimate knowledge.

Green Shinobi

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Jinfash did NOT take kindly to my posts in this thread.  :lol

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:(
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I did say something pretty fucked up, in retrospect.

Green Shinobi

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Ignore list, blocked my pm.  :lol

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:-\
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Green Shinobi

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That the Palestinians in Jerusalem should undergo a modern Trail of Tears.

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Not exactly what I meant, but...
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Powerslave

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When Jinfash gets angry he turns into Super Saya-Jinfash

Brehvolution

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©ZH

Eric P

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this thread
Tonya

Powerslave

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lmao dcharlie rules

Green Shinobi

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Barry Egan

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That the Palestinians in Jerusalem should undergo a modern Trail of Tears.

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Not exactly what I meant, but...
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Yet it is pretty much EXACTLY what you said and continued to say later on! Way to go you ignorant piece of shit.  Probably the proudest display of callous ignorance I have ever fucking seen on the internet.  

Blocked.

Green Shinobi

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It's not really ignorance if you're aware of what your suggestion would entail. At that point it's pure evil or pure pragmatism, depending on your point of view.

Diunx

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I honestly think that both GS and Ichi should be banned at least for a month to see if they cool off.
Drunk

Human Snorenado

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I'm pretty sure they're both autistic.
yar

Smooth Groove

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I don't think autism is the term for nerds who travel halfway around the world just to find some poontang. 

TEEEPO

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[youtube=560,345]Uh_rhEadi8k[/youtube]


Himu

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When are we going to get to discussing black cock again?
IYKYK

Himu

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Re: Israel vs. Palestine vs. Big Black Cocks
« Reply #166 on: April 02, 2010, 01:42:08 PM »
I would rather see white women get railed in porn by a black cock rather than a white cock in a black woman. Does that make me racist?

Hell naw, son. I do the same thing.
IYKYK

Smooth Groove

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I would rather see white women get railed in porn by a black cock rather than a white cock in a black woman. Does that make me racist?

No way!  Little White Chicks & Big Black Dicks is hella more enticing than Little White Dicks & Big Black Chicks.

Himu

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I would rather see white women get railed in porn by a black cock rather than a white cock in a black woman. Does that make me racist?

No way!  Little White Chicks & Big Black Dicks is hella more enticing than Little White Dicks & Big Black Chicks.

:drool
IYKYK

AdmiralViscen

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Re: Breaking News: Israeli jets attack targets in Gaza, CNN TV reports
« Reply #169 on: April 02, 2010, 10:59:44 PM »
Yeah, but PD hasn't said anything as egregiously dumb as you did with your first post in this thread.

Suggesting that Palestinians just voluntarily leave Jerusalem suggests you either don't realize how important the city is to Palestinian cultural and national identity, or you think that it's somehow more likely that one side in the conflict would completely surrender Jerusalem rather than partially surrender it.

So you don't think that the Palestinians would give up Jerusalem if it meant that they could have a completely sovereign state elsewhere in the area, completely free of Israeli interference? And if not now, you don't think this would be a possibility in a generation or so? I mean, really, this is what I was getting at.

Looking for real responses only with this one, guys.

Also, I'm well aware of the importance of Jerusalem to Muslim cultures, but I guess my line of thinking has been "fuck it, they'd still have Mecca and Medina." Is that way off base?

wow

worse than the first post

i laughed

EmCeeGrammar

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DCharlie's posts read like a red faced man barking these days.
sad

Ichirou

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I honestly think that both GS and Ichi should be banned at least for a month to see if they cool off.

You're just saying that because you don't like Two and a Half Men.
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Mandark

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For posterity's sake* here's why the Shinobi Accord wouldn't work:

First, Jerusalem is kind of a huge deal for Palestinians.  They don't just want a sovereign state somewhere on some land.  They want a sovereign state in the land the identify as Palestine, and they think of Jerusalem as its capital.  It is their most significant city, culturally and politically.

Even if you could convince the Palestinian leadership to give up on Jerusalem (you couldn't), they'd immediately and completely lose legitimacy and authority in the eyes of the Palestinian street.  The leadership would be wholly unable to enforce such an agreement.

Now you have a situation in which a couple hundred thousand Palestinian Jerusalemites have to be forcibly deported from the city, presumably by Israeli and maybe US troops.  That's going to cause a very, very bloody intifada.  Not just in Jerusalem, but in all the occupied territories.  Israel, in turn, will crack down with the usual harsh measures (shutting down access and utilities, killing people).

Eventually, if it goes well, you'll have herded the Palestinians to... "a completely sovereign state elsewhere in the area".  Oh dear.  We already know that Egypt, Jordan, and the other nearby Arab states don't want to take on Palestinians as citizens, and have resisted that idea for decades.  If the new Palestine is made up of the occupied territories minus Jerusalem, then it's sharing a border with Israel and will still serve as a base for rocket and mortar fire by militant Palestinians (which will be damn near all of them at this point).

So you can't expect a sustainable peace from the Palestinian side, and you couldn't expect one from the Israelis either.  "But they just got what they wanted!"  Yep, and they did it unilaterally with force.  Rewarding Israeli irredentism will just encourage more of it.

On top of all this, the United States might as well kiss any other strategic goals in the region goodbye.  No Muslim or Arab leader in the area would want to be seen within a hundred yards of the American president after this.  Even secret, back-channel diplomacy would be tough; try convincing Iran it doesn't need a nuclear deterrent after this.  Hell, you might even see an oil crisis out of it.  That's leaving out how the EU would react.

A Palestinian evacuation of Jerusalem isn't an example of effective but callously amoral realpolitik.  It's a fantasy that only succeeds by ignoring all the pitfalls and costs that would come along with it.

It's tempting to see a quagmire like the Israeli/Palestine issue and just want to cut the Gordian knot.  But great powers redrawing maps without respect to the cultural and political histories of a region don't solve territorial disputes.  They create them.


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*To avoid the inevitable point in the future when someone cites this thread as an annihilation, and GS explains that it wasn't cause nobody seriously explained why his idea wouldn't work, and we go through the whole goddam thing again.
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Phoenix Dark

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For posterity's sake* here's why the Shinobi Accord wouldn't work:

First, Jerusalem is kind of a huge deal for Palestinians.  They don't just want a sovereign state somewhere on some land.  They want a sovereign state in the land the identify as Palestine, and they think of Jerusalem as its capital.  It is their most significant city, culturally and politically.

Even if you could convince the Palestinian leadership to give up on Jerusalem (you couldn't), they'd immediately and completely lose legitimacy and authority in the eyes of the Palestinian street.  The leadership would be wholly unable to enforce such an agreement.

Now you have a situation in which a couple hundred thousand Palestinian Jerusalemites have to be forcibly deported from the city, presumably by Israeli and maybe US troops.  That's going to cause a very, very bloody intifada.  Not just in Jerusalem, but in all the occupied territories.  Israel, in turn, will crack down with the usual harsh measures (shutting down access and utilities, killing people).

Eventually, if it goes well, you'll have herded the Palestinians to... "a completely sovereign state elsewhere in the area".  Oh dear.  We already know that Egypt, Jordan, and the other nearby Arab states don't want to take on Palestinians as citizens, and have resisted that idea for decades.  If the new Palestine is made up of the occupied territories minus Jerusalem, then it's sharing a border with Israel and will still serve as a base for rocket and mortar fire by militant Palestinians (which will be damn near all of them at this point).

So you can't expect a sustainable peace from the Palestinian side, and you couldn't expect one from the Israelis either.  "But they just got what they wanted!"  Yep, and they did it unilaterally with force.  Rewarding Israeli irredentism will just encourage more of it.

On top of all this, the United States might as well kiss any other strategic goals in the region goodbye.  No Muslim or Arab leader in the area would want to be seen within a hundred yards of the American president after this.  Even secret, back-channel diplomacy would be tough; try convincing Iran it doesn't need a nuclear deterrent after this.  Hell, you might even see an oil crisis out of it.  That's leaving out how the EU would react.

A Palestinian evacuation of Jerusalem isn't an example of effective but callously amoral realpolitik.  It's a fantasy that only succeeds by ignoring all the pitfalls and costs that would come along with it.

It's tempting to see a quagmire like the Israeli/Palestine issue and just want to cut the Gordian knot.  But great powers redrawing maps without respect to the cultural and political histories of a region don't solve territorial disputes.  They create them.


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*To avoid the inevitable point in the future when someone cites this thread as an annihilation, and GS explains that it wasn't cause nobody seriously explained why his idea wouldn't work, and we go through the whole goddam thing again.
[close]

Interesting thoughts, but why exactly can't Palestinians simply be moved to another area of land as a compromise?
010

CurseoftheGods

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It's in the first paragraph:

Quote
First, Jerusalem is kind of a huge deal for Palestinians.  They don't just want a sovereign state somewhere on some land.  They want a sovereign state in the land the identify as Palestine, and they think of Jerusalem as its capital.  It is their most significant city, culturally and politically.

Phoenix Dark

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smh curse
010

Mandark

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Interesting thoughts, but why exactly can't Palestinians simply be moved to another area of land as a compromise?

That's a very good point you make.

The US has a pilot program where the population of South Ossetia will be relocated to Harlem.  If the results are generally positive, the Obama administration hopes to apply this technique to other disputed areas, such as Jerusalem and Kashmir.

Also the OMB projects it will be deficit-neutral, thanks to revenue from a string of fish-out-of-water comedies, and thus it could be passed through reconciliation.

Barry Egan

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My question is, how can anyone consider GS's political opinions selfish after hearing what he has to say about Isreali/Palestinian culture ???

Phoenix Dark

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Interesting thoughts, but why exactly can't Palestinians simply be moved to another area of land as a compromise?

That's a very good point you make.

The US has a pilot program where the population of South Ossetia will be relocated to Harlem.  If the results are generally positive, the Obama administration hopes to apply this technique to other disputed areas, such as Jerusalem and Kashmir.

Also the OMB projects it will be deficit-neutral, thanks to revenue from a string of fish-out-of-water comedies, and thus it could be passed through reconciliation.

On a serious note bro, I'm just curious why the massive post when GS will just respond with a similar one liner
010

Ichirou

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This might be the biggest, juiciest-looking black cock I've ever seen. :drool

 :nsfw

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 :nsfw

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