THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Himu on May 17, 2010, 07:53:35 AM
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Let's see the Boogs defend this
DETROIT — Seven-year-old Aiyana Jones was asleep on the living room sofa in her family's apartment when Detroit police searching for a homicide suspect burst in and an officer's gun went off, fatally striking the girl in the neck, family members say.
Her father, 25-year-old Charles Jones, told The Detroit News he had just gone to bed early Sunday after covering his daughter with her favorite Disney princess blanket when he heard a flash grenade followed by a gunshot. When he rushed into the living room, he said, police forced him to lie on the ground, with his face in his daughter's blood.
"I'll never be the same. That's my only daughter,"
"I saw them (police) running with my daughter out of the house. They had my mother on the floor, and they just kept me there for like two hours," Jones, 25, told The Detroit News. "I knew it was bad, and they probably had my baby at the hospital, because someone asked me if she had any allergies.
"Her blood was everywhere and I was trying to stay calm, but nobody would talk to me. None of them even tried to console me."
The officers had a search warrant and were looking for a 34-year-old man suspected in the shooting death of 17-year-old Jarean Blake. Officers arrested the suspect during the search, Godbee said.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/aiyana-jones-7-year-old-s_n_578246.html
Scum of the Earth.
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Fucking cops.
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but at least a brutal murderer is off the streets, right guys?
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You mean to say that investigations AREN'T like fucking third person shooters?
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Apparently the flash bang resulted in a confrontation with the grandmother and the gun went off unintentionally. GJ GUYS, YOU'RE PROS :rock
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Cops get away with way too much shit.
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but at least a brutal murderer is off the streets, right guys?
The actual suspect was in the apartment BELOW theirs :teehee
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All killers are psychopaths so the only way to resolve taking these guys in when you know where they supposedly are is by throwing a flash grenade and storming into any apartment you think may contain the suspect. If Intel supposedly knew where this guy was and was keeping tabs, why was this necessary?
Probably a distinguished black fellow.
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Cops get away with way too much shit.
I don't understand this. What happened here is a tragedy and nobody will defend it, but we now hate ALL cops because of a few distinguished mentally-challenged fellows?
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Cops get away with way too much shit.
I don't understand this. What happened here is a tragedy and nobody will defend it, but we now hate ALL cops because of a few distinguished mentally-challenged fellows?
Most cops are authoritarian assholes with tiny dicks.
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Most cops are authoritarian assholes with tiny dicks.
::)
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Most cops are authoritarian assholes with tiny dicks.
::)
That's why they become cops, so they can get a gun to compensate for their tiny manhood.
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::) ::)
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Cops get away with way too much shit.
I don't understand this. What happened here is a tragedy and nobody will defend it, but we now hate ALL cops because of a few distinguished mentally-challenged fellows?
Where did I say I hate all cops? I do assume that the majority of them are dicks, but I've met a couple myself that aren't.
I just hate the fact that usually when you hear about situations like this, they don't face any real punishment.
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See: Amadou Diallou.
Cops are fucking thugs, by and large.
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Cops get away with way too much shit.
I don't understand this. What happened here is a tragedy and nobody will defend it, but we now hate ALL cops because of a few distinguished mentally-challenged fellows?
yes.
but then i have troubles with authority anyway
which is hard to defend when i'm a statist.
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:piss cops :piss2
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What are the odds that these officers are fired as a direct result of this? I mean, how can people read news stories like this and not dislike police if these officers stay employed? Try that dude for 1st degree murder or summat.
That's why people "hate" police. They read these stories about officers stepping over the line and there is never a follow up story about the officers being reprimanded or fired or held accountable in any real sense. Or if there is a follow up story it never reaches even a quarter of the audience the initial story did.
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I hate all people that work for Microsoft because that one admin on Xbox Live abused his power (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ijmiWYApX8w). :punch
I hate all firefighters because this guy (http://www.wkrg.com/mississippi/article/firefighter_arrested_for_starting_fires/804230/Mar-23-2010_10-26-am/) and this guy (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/11/14/AR2008111401997.html) actually started the fires they were called to fight. :punch
I hate all teachers because this P.E. teacher sexually abused a minor (http://www.fox12idaho.com/Global/story.asp?S=12493132). :punch
I hate pretty much everyone, because there is always a percentage that abuse their profession and/or assholes. :punch
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What does Boogie think of this?
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100511/NEWS02/5110365
Fucking pigs.
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sounds like an unfortunate accident. i'd say the blame can be placed mostly on the homicide suspect.
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Absolutely horrible but I always found the use of a childs death like this as some form of ammo against police brutality and excessive force a bit tasteless.
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I hate pretty much everyone, because there is always a percentage that abuse their profession and/or assholes. :punch
i hate all screenwriters because of whitta
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I'm sure this will be all over the news. Oh wait, she's black and from Detroit? nm
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I can't tell if Willco is being serious or not. SMH if he is.
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What does Boogie think of this?
http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20100511/NEWS02/5110365
Fucking pigs.
There must be some SERIOUSLY bad reporting here, because by my reading, it sure seems as if that police officer is being put on trial for his actions, and if convicted, will be punished by up to 11 years in prison. That can't be right, can it? After all, I learned on the internet that cops get to beat and shoot people with impunity, and never face any consequences or accountability for their actions.
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Did you see the video boogie?
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Did you see the video boogie?
yes
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Fucking pigs. Scum of the earth.
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Fucking pigs. Scum of the earth.
'kay
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and if convicted, will be punished by up to 11 years in prison.
that's funny
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Oh look, another one of these threads where we all try to bait the only one with the balls to defend his profession. And we do a fucking terrible job of it by taking isolated cases and making it seem the norm.
Awesome.
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http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/17/aiyana-jones-7-year-old-s_n_578246.html
All killers are psychopaths so the only way to resolve taking these guys in when you know where they supposedly are is by throwing a flash grenade and storming into any apartment you think may contain the suspect. If Intel supposedly knew where this guy was and was keeping tabs, why was this necessary?
Probably a distinguished black fellow.
Himuro, girl was black:
(http://i42.tinypic.com/5upmqf.jpg)
:piss Detroit cops :piss2
I was talking about the suspect: murder suspect + black person + excessive trigger happy cops = let's kill everyone in the building, they're all suspects. And because he's black he definitely killed that 17 year old kid, so we're going to use force anyways and storm apartments with flash bangs!
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I stand with the fake shimp on this one. What happened was a tragedy whether it was by accident or not and such tragedies can happen in most professions.
I might criticize the way they force themselves into peoples homes but what I not going to do is hate policemen because of what happened.
I know that some are obviously trying to 'troll' because of what happened in the previous post but I am going to leave this comment here anyway.
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Can somebody tell me why you would punish the cop for an accident?
It's like you guys have no idea how to actually run a police force.
If a SWAT guy goes into a dark house that he believes a murderer is in and shoots when he sees suspicious movement than who can really blame him? This isn't like Rainbow 6 where you can turn on heat vision and stick a spycam under the door to mark targets.
If you need to feel morally certain that everything is right or wrong than get the fuck out of the real world.
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It is the policeman that puts his life on the line for us to live safely and not we who do so for him to do his job.
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Can somebody tell me why you would punish the cop for an accident?
Because any other person would be punished for the same accident.
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It is the policeman that puts his life on the line for us to live safely and not we who do so for him to do his job.
n/m read that incorrectly.
Can somebody tell me why you would punish the cop for an accident?
Because any other person would be punished for the same accident.
The rest of us aren't agents of the state exercising its monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force.
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I assumed he was saying that since the police protect us, they should be given the benefit of the doubt. In which case, I was obviously disagreeing.
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My mistake. I re-read his post.
People need to read less etoilete and more Strunk and White.
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the policeman protects us and it is his duty to place his life on the line to do his job
the citizen does not owe the policeman the citizen's life to ensure the policeman does his job
is what he's saying
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Can somebody tell me why you would punish the cop for an accident?
Because any other person would be punished for the same accident.
If he went in the right apartment,assuming that only the killer was in there, would you be angry if they shot before clearly seeing the killer's face or knowing if he was armed?
The question is what went wrong and how do you fix it for the future? I mean, this isn't about the drug war. This is about a murderer. Any legal system would exercise the same amount of force in apprehending him.
The problem to me would more likely be that there's not enough safeguards to make sure that the wrong address isn't given. It makes no sense to say that the officer should be strung up for first-degree murder.
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I'm not gonna get into 'if's.
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It is the policeman that puts his life on the line for us to live safely and not we who do so for him to do his job.
n/m read that incorrectly.
Can somebody tell me why you would punish the cop for an accident?
Because any other person would be punished for the same accident.
The rest of us aren't agents of the state exercising its monopoly on the legitimate use of physical force.
MALEK!! :hump :hump
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I'm not gonna get into 'if's.
but what if you do?
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Michigan Radio says that the officer's gun was accidentally discharged when the cop got tangled up with the victim's grandmother.
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Have you ever gotten in trouble at work for "an accident" Am Nintenho? Because I sure have, and it didn't involve shooting a child. Are you suggesting double standards?
Okay but who do you blame? I think the SWAT guy was handling it exactly how he was trained to do, with the mistake coming from the guy who gave the intel. Possibly he counted the wrong number of windows/floors or he just copied a number wrong or something but it's hard to understand punishing somebody, with a murder charge, when it's a mistake anybody could make. If you want a solution that prevents this from happening in the future then change the procedures for confirming a suspects address or something. Don't just throw people in prison.
Edit: I'm not sure what to say wrt it being a discharge or not so I think we'll have to wait for more facts to come in. My guess is that officer won't want to handle a gun ever again.
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I love how some people are trying to make it seem like this cop kicked down a random door and shot down a 7 year old girl and then exclaimed "fuck yeah!" while drinking a beer.
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I keep thinking this thread is about the Avatar TV show, so I come in here ready to lol
then I see the OP :fbm
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Have you ever gotten in trouble at work for "an accident" Am Nintenho? Because I sure have, and it didn't involve shooting a child. Are you suggesting double standards?
According to a previous post of his, nintenho either is or used to be a police officer, which explains his way of thinking to me perfectly.
I think what he's trying to do is incredibly fucking stupid, trying to absolve some cops because they were sloppy and killed a fucking kid or saying it's okay to kill someone if you THINK he's a killer or you THINK he's armed even though you have no idea whether this is the case or not, but if that's the way a typical cop thinks, it explains a looooot.
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No, I've served as an election officer before. Those are the people who set up polling stations and help you with your ballots during elections. That is a once-every-6-months 12 hour job where I get paid for basically showing up (I mainly use it as study time). It's easy money and although it's a government job and has "officer" in the title, it's not in any way comparable to trying to apprehend a fucking murderer.
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Okay. I still think it's pretty much full-on distinguished mentally-challenged to say "Oh, he got the wrong apartment building, maybe he counted the windows wrong, it's not his fault, it was an accident." When you're a cop and you're dealing with life-and-death situations, it's your fucking RESPONSIBILITY to be a little more careful and maybe double or triple-count the windows before you go in with weaponry to apprehend a suspect. A little girl is dead and most likely nothing is going to happen to the guy; that doesn't make it right, or moral.
If you're not ready to take that responsibility on, find another job or transfer to another division doing clerical work or whatever.
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If he went in the right apartment,assuming that only the killer was in there, would you be angry if they shot before clearly seeing the killer's face or knowing if he was armed?
You're saying it's okay to go into an apartment, assuming (not knowing, assuming) that the only dude in the apt. is the killer and that it is then totally OK to shoot whoever the dude in the apartment is without verifying that it IS the killer or even if he is armed. So, not even attempt to arrest him, but just kill him?
The view from the hill is that you are insane.
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Okay. I still think it's pretty much full-on distinguished mentally-challenged to say "Oh, he got the wrong apartment building, maybe he counted the windows wrong, it's not his fault, it was an accident." When you're a cop and you're dealing with life-and-death situations, it's your fucking RESPONSIBILITY to be a little more careful and maybe double or triple-count the windows before you go in with weaponry to apprehend a suspect. A little girl is dead and most likely nothing is going to happen to the guy; that doesn't make it right, or moral.
If you're not ready to take that responsibility on, find another job or transfer to another division doing clerical work or whatever.
We're not talking about a one time thing either. If one in every million turns out to be a mistake than I'd say that's very impressive. You'd say that's one too many and totally realistic to expect a more serious individual to get it right by being paranoid about every mistake killing a 7 year old girl.
I say redesign the car, not the driver. It doesn't make sense to put all the responsibility for controlling for mistakes on individual humans.
If he went in the right apartment,assuming that only the killer was in there, would you be angry if they shot before clearly seeing the killer's face or knowing if he was armed?
You're saying it's okay to go into an apartment, assuming (not knowing, assuming) that the only dude in the apt. is the killer and that it is then totally OK to shoot whoever the dude in the apartment is without verifying that it IS the killer or even if he is armed. So, not even attempt to arrest him, but just kill him?
The view from the hill is that you are insane.
No, I'm asking YOU to assume that the killer is the only one in there. As in if they were watching it long enough to make sure nobody else was in there. In this case if the killer is known to be armed and dangerous, having to clearly see a guy's face and hands in a dark room may not make sense when it only takes him one squeeze of the trigger to kill you.
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Jesus, why am I bothering with this? This is why I avoid commenting on your ridiculous posts in movie threads. You are completely insane. I have never in my life talked to someone so immune to normal logic.
When you have been entrusted by the state with the power of fucking life and death, YES, I fucking expect you to be a bit paranoid and double-check so you don't kill a 7 year old girl. And most likely you are right, and the powers that be will tell this keystone kop "oh, too bad, be more careful in the future", but a little girl will still be dead and a family will still be shattered.
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what I'm saying is that punishing the officer is irrelevant to preventing this from happening in the future. It's a freak coincidence. Nobody assumes it'll happen to them.
If you want some sort of constructive solution to preventing this from happening in the future, and you are able to consider this without satisfying a grudge against the individual cop responsible for this shooting, then you look at changing the whole system.
I'm not saying the person responsible shouldn't be punished in any way. I'm saying it won't have any effect on the future.
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Am Nintenho, what if you were to do both :omg
You could do both but not for the same reasons. I certainly don't approve of charging any officer with murder.
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"It's a freak coincidence!" No, it's not. It was a fucking LAZY MISTAKE which lead to the tragic, wholly unnecessary death of a human being.
I'm not talking about satisfying a grudge - the fucking cop KILLED SOMEONE. Let's say you're driving on the road and you drop a CD and you turn your head down to look to see where the CD fell and while you're doing that you run a red light and kill someone who's crossing the road. Would you then say "Hey, it was just a mistake, we should think of constructive solutions like equipping stoplights with sirens so those of us who may have turned away from looking at the road for a second will know we're coming up on a red light!"
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nintenho honestly fucks with my head
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I think if nintenho ever posted something I agree with, something in my head would explode.
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Oh sure, he'll argue with nintenho. ::)
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nintenho doesn't argue in threads just to get his rocks off, unlike some people.
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"It's a freak coincidence!" No, it's not. It was a fucking LAZY MISTAKE which lead to the tragic, wholly unnecessary death of a human being.
I'm not talking about satisfying a grudge - the fucking cop KILLED SOMEONE. Let's say you're driving on the road and you drop a CD and you turn your head down to look to see where the CD fell and while you're doing that you run a red light and kill someone who's crossing the road. Would you then say "Hey, it was just a mistake, we should think of constructive solutions like equipping stoplights with sirens so those of us who may have turned away from looking at the road for a second will know we're coming up on a red light!"
So you're saying the only reason the cop should be punished is because he is not fit to be a police officer? Not to send a message to other cops that would hopefully decrease the likelihood of this happening in the future?
OKAY. That has nothing to do with anything that might affect any of our daily lives but whatever.
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u catchin feelins boogie? :teehee
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"It's a freak coincidence!" No, it's not. It was a fucking LAZY MISTAKE which lead to the tragic, wholly unnecessary death of a human being.
I'm not talking about satisfying a grudge - the fucking cop KILLED SOMEONE. Let's say you're driving on the road and you drop a CD and you turn your head down to look to see where the CD fell and while you're doing that you run a red light and kill someone who's crossing the road. Would you then say "Hey, it was just a mistake, we should think of constructive solutions like equipping stoplights with sirens so those of us who may have turned away from looking at the road for a second will know we're coming up on a red light!"
So you're saying the only reason the cop should be punished is because he is not fit to be a police officer? Not to send a message to other cops that would hopefully decrease the likelihood of this happening in the future?
OKAY. That has nothing to do with anything that might affect any of our daily lives but whatever.
I'm saying the cop killed a child, and should be punished accordingly for his negligence and stupidity. And if that scares a few other cops into checking twice before bursting in on a home they THINK a suspect is in, BONUS!
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u catchin feelins boogie? :teehee
huh?
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That Ichi argues with this dude but chooses to troll you when you scream for serus debate. :(
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Oh sure, he'll argue with nintenho. ::)
???
You haven't commented on the OP though.
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Why was his finger on the trigger in the first place?
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Oh sure, he'll argue with nintenho. ::)
???
You haven't commented on the OP though.
And why would I want to do that?
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Well, you're already in here...
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So what's the view from the hill on this topic?
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Well, you're already in here...
well, considering that the first third of the thread opened with what I presume is people being assholes in order to try to get a rise out of me, and the last thread, where earnest attempts at discussion were ignored and mocked, I don't think I'll bother anymore. I'll just hang around to make pithy side comments
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Yes, every negative comment about cops is directed at you specifically. Not that anybody would even know you are a cop if you didn't mention it in your tag. And your profile. And in every other post. :lol
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Well, you're already in here...
well, considering that the first third of the thread opened with what I presume is people being assholes in order to try to get a rise out of me, and the last thread, where earnest attempts at discussion were ignored and mocked, I don't think I'll bother anymore. I'll just hang around to make pithy side comments
link?
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Yes, every negative comment about cops is directed at you specifically. Not that anybody would even know you are a cop if you didn't mention it in your tag. And your profile. And in every other post. :lol
Right, my bad. You're just really passionate and committed to hating on cops, that's all.
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http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/05/geoffrey_fieger_takes_on_aiyan.html
why i am shocked.
Geoffrey Fieger: Video contradicts Detroit police account of fatal shooting of Aiyana Jones
By The Associated Press
May 17, 2010, 5:24PM
geoffrey-fieger.jpg
An attorney for the family of a 7-year-old girl who was killed by a police officer's bullet during a weekend raid at their home said Monday that he saw video of the raid that contradicts the police department's version of what happened.
Attorney Geoffrey Fieger said he watched three or four minutes of video that showed police fired into the home after lobbing a flash grenade through the window. He said this contradicts the police department's story, which was that the officer's gun discharged during a struggle or collision inside the home with the girl's grandmother.
"There is no question about what happened because it's in the videotape," Fieger said. "It's not an accident. It's not a mistake. There was no altercation.
"The gun was fired before anyone goes through the door. There are lights all over, like it's a television set."
A camera crew for the cable television crime-reality series "The First 48" was at the raid, although Fieger declined to say whether the video he watched was shot by the crew.
A&E spokesman Dan Silberman said neither he nor anyone else from the network would comment about the case.
Fieger said more than one camera was recording at the scene.
"It demonstrates conclusively, beyond a shadow of a doubt, what happened in this case," the attorney said. "The pictures don't lie. It's got sound and everything."
Michigan State Police detectives have taken charge of the investigation.
Detroit police were trying to obtain any footage of the raid captured by the film crew, which had been shadowing city homicide investigators almost daily since early this year, Assistant Chief Ralph Godbee said Monday.
Godbee said Detroit police would not be commenting on the tactics they employed during the raid, but that the department was not concerned that the film crew had any affect on how it was conducted.
The target of the search, a 34-year-old man suspected of killing a 17-year-old boy, was arrested in the upstairs unit at the two-family home. Police had warrants to search both units, and relatives of the girl were seen Monday going in and out of both.
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Cop? I thought that Mounties were just wrestling gimmicks.
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But I was fine with mounties until one of them got drunk and started raging at me for no reason!
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http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2010/05/geoffrey_fieger_takes_on_aiyan.html
why i am shocked.
*snip*
I wouldn't trust an attorney. :P
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Geoffrey Fieger is kind of a scumbag, but I guess the videotape will be the deciding factor.
If this info bears out, what say you now, nintenho? Still just a "freak coincidence" and "innocent mistake"?
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you're right
redacted until a milkman comes forward with evidence that the cops canceled cream service for the day
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If this info bears out, what say you now, nintenho? Still just a "freak coincidence" and "innocent mistake"?
It's a completely different situation if they had warrants for both homes and fired through a window before entering.
If that article is completely correct, it would mean that the police's intel was right but that they shot through a window without being shot at first. The blame is different, the procedure is different, yet your attitude towards the police involved is the same.
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Yes, because...they still fucked up and a little girl is dead?
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Yes, because...they still fucked up and a little girl is dead?
I don't see any accidental miscountings and shooting through a window as the same thing.
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Yes, because...they still fucked up and a little girl is dead?
Because, in the justice system, and morality more generally, intent matters? That careless negligence should provoke a different reaction than deliberate and malicious aggression?
Oops, almost started to debate there. :-[
Sorry, go back to arguing with the crazy man.
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Why was his finger on the trigger in the first place?
Did you miss the part about the suspect being black?
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Yes, because...they still fucked up and a little girl is dead?
Because, in the justice system, and morality more generally, intent matters? That careless negligence should provoke a different reaction than deliberate and malicious aggression?
Oops, almost started to debate there. :-[
Sorry, go back to arguing with the crazy man.
I will, to no one's tears but yours.
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nintenho doesn't argue in threads just to get his rocks off, unlike some people.
He does exactly that, and so do you.
You respond to nintenho and not to Boogie because Boogie makes better points.
Yes, every negative comment about cops is directed at you specifically. Not that anybody would even know you are a cop if you didn't mention it in your tag. And your profile. And in every other post. :lol
Did you read the first sentence of the first post of this thread?
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And AdmiralViscen shows up to gargle icon cum yet again. :bow
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I can barely remember who is and isn't an Icon.
it's fucking annoying that every time a cop somewhere is a dipshit/asshole/criminal, a specific user needs to be goaded and antagonized.
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If said user didn't see the need to constantly remind people that he's a cop and have a reputation for stepping in and "setting people straight with the view from the hill", maybe it wouldn't happen.
Maybe you should ask for a change to the TOS forbidding people from badmouthing cops, or any other profession people in EB happen to work at.
As for myself, despite what Boogie may think, my opinion on cops comes from my real-life experiences with police officers as well as due to my relationship with my cousin, a state trooper who actually tried to pick a physical fight with me at my own father's wake.
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Interesting hearing so many local radio calls today play the "when you don't listen to the police this stuff happens, too bad" card. This entire incident was caused by a police fuck up.
I just hope the cop isn't white. Really don't want to see this become a racial issue.
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If said user didn't see the need to constantly remind people that he's a cop and have a reputation for stepping in and "setting people straight with the view from the hill", maybe it wouldn't happen.
Maybe you should ask for a change to the TOS forbidding people from badmouthing cops, or any other profession people in EB happen to work at.
As for myself, despite what Boogie may think, my opinion on cops comes from my real-life experiences with police officers as well as due to my relationship with my cousin, a state trooper who actually tried to pick a physical fight with me at my own father's wake.
hey look, ichi is gargling his own cum yet again, to no one's tears (cue laugh track)
guess what - Boogie's opinion on cops comes from real life experience too, and that doesn't make him 100% right all the time any more than it does you.
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Pointless post above me.
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nintenho doesn't argue in threads just to get his rocks off, unlike some people.
He does exactly that, and so do you.
You respond to nintenho and not to Boogie because Boogie makes better points.
I enjoy changing people's logic, but I really don't think I made any bad points.
Maybe arguing about something that there's so many charged emotions over is pointless though?
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I'd like to see the video evidence before making a judgment. Its a tragedy that the little girl was killed. But, if the guy went in guns already blazing, that's just wrong.
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Cause if they didn't, it'd just be right?
I'm not saying if he didn't go in guns blazing that it would be right that the little girl died. (The little girl should have never died due to this raid.) All I'm saying is that there is a difference between accidentally discharging his weapon and killing the little girl and going in guns blazing and killing her.
One way is truly an accident and the other is stupidity.
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Assuming we've gotten all the meta crap out of our system (right, guys?), a question for Boogie.
It seems (but may not be the case) that a SWAT team bursting into a house is gradually replacing the classic "This is the police. We have the house surrounded. Come out with your hands up" bit. Is that still considered an option when executing warrants? What are the considerations?
I assume going in hard is preferred in drug cases because the evidence is flushable.
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Assuming we've gotten all the meta crap out of our system (right, guys?), a question for Boogie.
It seems (but may not be the case) that a SWAT team bursting into a house is gradually replacing the classic "This is the police. We have the house surrounded. Come out with your hands up" bit. Is that still considered an option when executing warrants? What are the considerations?
hmm. I'm not sure how much the "this is police, you're surrounded, come out with your hands out" was ever common practice vs. the creation from TV and movies, though ya, that could be a trend of recent decades. I'm just trying to rack my brain for hypothetical scenarios where that would be done vs. a SWAT entry. The scenarios I can come up with are all more along the lines of scenarios where the police are responding to an incident initiated by a subject. ie. a botched bank robbery, hostage taking, some violent possible-suicide risk who has barricaded himself in his home with weapons. In other words, situations where the police don't control the encounter and must set up a perimeter and wait things out.
That's probably no longer an option (if it ever was) for scenarios involving the execution of warrants because it hands a measure of control over to the subject. If you're executing an arrest warrant on a possibly violent murder suspect, you wouldn't want to get on the loudspeaker and announce your presence, then let him set there and stew, possibly panic, and then come to the conclusion "well, I'll be going to jail for the rest of my life, or worse....fuck it, I'm just going to take some of them with me."
So I guess it's that, when executing warrants, we want to control the situation, and just surrounding the house and announcing our presence leaves too much control in the subject's hands. Doing an entry allows us to control the timing and manner of entry, gives us the element of surprise, etc. That, and good training and discipline, would be safer than the alternative. Unfortunately, that clearly wasn't the case here.
other considerations being the nature of the warrant (search warrant for documents, vs. search warrants for drugs, arrest warrant for a violent offender vs. one for a fraud artist), seriousness of the offence, likelihood of violence (area the warrant is being served, known gang area vs. well-to-do gated community). Previous records, patterns of violence by the subject, past weapons posessions, etc.
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Also, if there's a chance that drugs are on site, wouldn't they want avoid giving the suspect a chance to get rid of them down the toilet, or hide them somewhere clever?
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Also, if there's a chance that drugs are on site, wouldn't they want avoid giving the suspect a chance to get rid of them down the toilet, or hide them somewhere clever?
I assume going in hard is preferred in drug cases because the evidence is flushable.
:P
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There's a university strike going down in Puerto Rico that's shut down most of the campuses for the last several weeks.
Asked about several policemen who have voiced their satisfaction in clubbing striking students at the University of Puerto Rico on Facebook, Figueroa Sancha responded that anyone could have made up such a webpage.
“I do not promote such comments,” the island's Top Cop said after expressing doubts that comments allegedly made by Alexander Luiña on his Facebook page on May 4 that: “At last I could strike a club in this God blessed strike, after twelve days.”
Having read the Facebook page myself, a more accurate translation of the douchebag cop's comment would be "I finally was able to beat someone down with my baton in this goddamned strike, after having waited twelve days!"
Read how the police superintendent tries to justify and distort the vicious beatdowns the thugs gave to unarmed civilians, while San Juan's archbishop condemned the excessive violence and asked that police be given lessons on mediation and resolving situation without physical conflict (hey, if they were interested in that, they never would have become cops in the first place):
http://www.prdailysun.com/index.php?page=news.article&id=1274489198
And then people wonder why I hate the fucking pigs. PR's cops are infamous for their thuggery.
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PR's cops are infamous for their thuggery.
That's probably true for any poor country.
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Also, if there's a chance that drugs are on site, wouldn't they want avoid giving the suspect a chance to get rid of them down the toilet, or hide them somewhere clever?
I assume going in hard is preferred in drug cases because the evidence is flushable.
:P
:-[
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PR's cops are infamous for their thuggery.
That's probably true for any poor country.
and the WWF/WWE
I really hated that Mountie! :punch
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PR's cops are infamous for their thuggery.
That's probably true for any poor country.
PR isn't a country. :shh
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Yeah, they aren't even independent :lol
:piss Puerto Rico :piss2
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EVANS — Two Evans police officers are being praised for saving the life of a 1-week-old baby girl this week.
Officer Michael Yates and Dan Ranous were called Wednesday night to a home in the 3400 block of Harbor Lane where Jayde Zimmerman needed help.
Jayde's mother, Sarah Haley, called 911 because the baby was turning blue and not breathing.
Officers discovered that the baby may have breathed in fluids during a recent episode of vomiting, according to a news release from Evans police.
Ranous cleared the baby's airway and began rescue breathing procedures. By the time firefighters and paramedics arrived, the baby was taking shallow breaths.
She was taken to North Colorado Medical Center in Greeley, where she spent the night. She was released the next day.
Both of the officers are trained in first aid and CPR, according to the release. In addition, Ranous is trained as an emergency medical technician.
“These are calls we're trained for and stay ready for but hope they never come,” Ranous said in an interview with Fox31.
“We'll remember this the rest of our life,” Haley said on Fox31. “Because if not for him, who knows what would have happened. You know one minute longer you never know.”
“Had it not been for their quick response and actions, this incident would likely have had a more disastrous outcome,” Evans Police Public Information Officer Rita Wolf said in the release. “The Evans Police Department would like to commend these officers, along with the Evans Fire Department and Weld County Paramedics, for their heroic actions in saving the life of the 1-week-old infant.”
http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20100508/NEWS/100509749 (http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20100508/NEWS/100509749)
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Probably.
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Yeah, they aren't even independent :lol
:piss Puerto Rico :piss2
And as bad as it is, it's still at least ten times better than that Dominican Republic hellhole. I mean, you've got people so desperate to leave that place that they climb into rickety wooden boats to try to sneak into PR illegally. :rofl
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yeah but at least we are a real country not an American colony.
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yeah but at least we are a real country not an American colony.
There's plenty of countries in the world, I don't understand why you'd take that as a point of pride. It's like telling someone from New York - "Well, you're just a state not a whole country." :lol
"The Dominican Republic is one of the worst countries to live in in the world, and marked by severe economic inequality, but hey...at least it's a country!"
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They're both total shitholes nuke them both.
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They're both total shitholes
I agree with this statement.
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If you don't think Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic should be nuked than blah blah outrageously provocative statement blah.
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You could do a lot worse than DR if you're living south of Florida
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We are a shithole but a free one unlike PR :smug
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We are a shithole but a free one unlike PR :smug
Yes, because PR is enslaved by getting all those federal moneys from the US. :lol