THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 21, 2019, 05:25:27 PM

Title: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 21, 2019, 05:25:27 PM
I'm to assed to link it but just go to cnn.


"Hello this is Verizon, we understand you may need cellular service in the next few hours. However your account is 1 minute overdue. Please make payments arrangements or we may disable your service"


*gets my popcorn ready.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow.
Post by: Kara on June 21, 2019, 05:29:35 PM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/06/21/politics/ice-immigration-raids/index.html
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow.
Post by: team filler on June 21, 2019, 05:30:16 PM
what you think about the raidahs this year?
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 21, 2019, 05:31:25 PM
Not to be a reeeeeeeeeeeeeee guy here but this go against the fucking fundamentals this nation was set upon. Never seen anything like this in my own personal life. Pops told some stories, I half listened. Damn.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 21, 2019, 05:32:00 PM
what you think about the raidahs this year?



Not to be a reeeeeeeeeeeeeee guy here but this go against the fucking fundamentals this nation was set upon. Never seen anything like this in my own personal life. Pops told some stories, I half listened. Damn


AB+hard knocks is a fucking cancer and this will result in a 6-10 season.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Carr is trash
[close]
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow.
Post by: team filler on June 21, 2019, 05:34:42 PM
incognito and burfict making the team?
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 21, 2019, 05:35:51 PM
incognito and burfict making the team?

They already did. What you mean? Yeah JG thinks he needs a couple "roosters in the old hen house"


Voila..

Edit: Take him off the field and Burfict is a good ass guy man. It's weird. Thank God for the NFL or he'd be that bar fight you never wanted to happen.

Rich though? Nah.

What was the name of the jackass on gaf who leaked things properly? Yeah take it that way.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 21, 2019, 05:39:48 PM
Lastly Carr is piss frightened of AB. This will be fun to focus on.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Human Snorenado on June 21, 2019, 05:47:05 PM
I didn't know JaMarcus Russell cared so much about immigrants.

Where do you think he gets his codeine cough syrup from???
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: CatsCatsCats on June 21, 2019, 05:50:07 PM
No seriously this has me more and more on edge and mentally preparing for living through some dark shit and I’m very not okay with being quiet and skating by while my country puts people in concentration camps and shit soooooo where do I go
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 21, 2019, 05:50:23 PM
I didn't know JaMarcus Russell cared so much about immigrants.

Where do you think he gets his codeine cough syrup from???

Flavor Flav....oh you thought that was a southern thing.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 21, 2019, 05:53:50 PM
No seriously this has me more and more on edge and mentally preparing for living through some dark shit and I’m very not okay with being quiet and skating by while my country puts people in concentration camps and shit soooooo where do I go

You know where to go......its reeeeeallly simple.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 22, 2019, 09:40:47 AM
Not to be a reeeeeeeeeeeeeee guy here but this go against the fucking fundamentals this nation was set upon.

:whew

I'm looking forward to you coming around to the idea that the rounding up and suppression of minorities so settlers can enforce land claims are exactly the fundamentals this nation was set upon. Hope you're well btw, haven't seen you in a minute.

Esch! How you been man?
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: thisismyusername on June 22, 2019, 10:55:30 AM
No seriously this has me more and more on edge and mentally preparing for living through some dark shit and I’m very not okay with being quiet and skating by while my country puts people in concentration camps and shit soooooo where do I go

You're a legal citizen, right? I'm not sure what you have to be "on edge" about.

what's your take on donald? (wasnt here in 2016)

He hated him, IIRC, as a Republican. But he knew he was going to win (like I did. Suck it, Mandark.).
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on June 22, 2019, 11:52:50 AM
I'm doing really well, unlike the state of this nation. job's working out, personal life going well, etc. hope the kids are well!

what's your take on donald? (wasnt here in 2016)

Trump is a farce but still remains more viable than the current far left liberal wackos think tanks are offering.

So Iran then..,.


 :salute
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 22, 2019, 02:31:01 PM
I got home at 4 am today and the main thoroughfare was crawling with so many coppers you had to take an alternate route (I live in a majority minority city so we're either under policed or over policed). Can't wait for Sunday.

Anyway, good to see you again AiA, hope everything is great with you and your family (present topic aside of course).
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: CatsCatsCats on June 22, 2019, 04:12:58 PM
Lots of cops out here I noticed today myself. That could be because of a few different things going on in my state (https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.foxnews.com/politics/oregon-senate-closes-due-to-possible-militia-threat-after-republican-walkout.amp) tho
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Himu on June 22, 2019, 04:19:22 PM
Ah yes, the transphobic mother fucker who insulted me the last time we interacted with that people that I chatted with for over a decade with casually ignored is back to spread his little trollfest.

Fuck you.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Tripon on June 22, 2019, 04:51:36 PM
Trump delayed the ICE raids two weeks because Pelosi asked him too.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: thisismyusername on June 22, 2019, 04:57:49 PM
(((Filler))) alert:

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChapoTrapHouse/comments/c3oxye/these_are_the_people_that_call_you_libtards_on/ert305s/

 :nsfw :nsfw :nsfw :nsfw :nsfw
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cauliflower Of Love on June 22, 2019, 05:13:37 PM
womp womp
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Joe Molotov on June 22, 2019, 07:32:29 PM
ICE needs to round up filler and ship him back to Korea.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Nintex on June 22, 2019, 07:38:40 PM
Again some reality TV shit.

- Threatens millions of deportations
- Actually organizes 1000's of deportations
- Challenges the players
- Will they or won't they succeed? Find out on the next episode!
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 03:08:44 AM
Whats the problem with sending back illegal immigrants?

Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 03:42:38 AM
Well u got to start somewhere

I mean unless you are a political/war refugees fearing for their lives there should be no problem with sending u back if you dont have papers

The fact there is many shouldn't be important,its about enforcing the law
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: team filler on June 23, 2019, 04:14:27 AM
eurotrash annihilated  :pacspit
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 05:28:11 AM
How is it ironic?

I have dutch citizenship and polish, both eu countries. Everything id legal breh. This is how the EU works. Deal with it. If you want the same there then vote for it.

I didn't cross any borders illegally except the Belarus one once without a tranist visa.

And yeah if you are not allowed in a place you can get sent back SHOCKING

Im all for legal migration and refugees in fear of life and have been at protest to support that.

Lol at pulling you live abroad card when its nothing different then moving from new jersey to kentucky in the US :lol thats really ignorant.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 05:35:58 AM
Nevermind I dont even begin to understand how my situation is anything like people jumping the fence

Youre comparing someone buying a pack of milk to somoneone stealing it  :lol
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 06:01:53 AM
To clarify further: yes I think it's the appropriate punishment and the only logical one, what kind of message would it send to allow them to stay?

Family bla bla trauma has nothing to do with it. If I rob a bank today amd get caught I will do jail time, bu bu what about my family? Too fucking bad it was my choice to break the law and I knew what the consequences could be.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Rufus on June 23, 2019, 08:06:04 AM
Family bla bla trauma has nothing to do with it. If I rob a bank today amd get caught I will do jail time, bu bu what about my family? Too fucking bad it was my choice to break the law and I knew what the consequences could be.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
What if the law isn't enforced for decades, then suddenly it is?
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Don Rumata on June 23, 2019, 09:13:47 AM
The point i'll concede to Premium Lager's pov, is that an approach essentially resting on "maybe we'll look the other way, or maybe we'll make an example out of you" isn't the best or more just out there.
I don't think the solution should be to send everyone back home, though, but something closer to the opposite.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: VomKriege on June 23, 2019, 09:43:24 AM
Quote
proportionate punishment for crossing an imaginary line

Millions died over those lines being crossed. They're immaterial, but they're not imaginary.

Ultimately and in the abstract, is a political entity sovereign over a territory in its right to deny entry to people for whatever reasons ? I don't think I've often heard that clarified by those opposing nationalist arguments, the left in particular struggle with that.

That's not to defend the shameful treatment of migrants in the US and the UE (sabotaging NGOs and criminalising help to those at distress at seas, supposedly a pretty major point in naval law and usages, herding people in camps where their rights and basic decency are abused, etc...). I think first world countries could indeed accept more people and that a large part of the crispation at it is fueled by reactionary and racist feelings. I also think there's a bit of political fiction going on (more imaginary than borders, that's for sure) at the clean cut distinction between asylum seekers (protected by international law) and so called "economic migrants" at the heart of some of the Western doublespeak. We're probably headed towards more migration crisis and the First World needs to start addressing this and upscale capacity instead of closing anoid over it.

No argument from me that the policies of the Trump administration are racist, inhumane, illegal and sliding towards more and more abuse and outright criminal.

Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 11:05:53 AM
Family bla bla trauma has nothing to do with it. If I rob a bank today amd get caught I will do jail time, bu bu what about my family? Too fucking bad it was my choice to break the law and I knew what the consequences could be.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.
What if the law isn't enforced for decades, then suddenly it is?

What if the police cant catch everyone speeding? Should they therefore never have traffic controls?

Deportations have always happened, this is just a pr sting.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 11:16:49 AM
Btw sorry that I will not go into a lengthy what is right and what is wrong discussion and write an essay about how I think capitalism should be solved etc. All my personal left wing view points have not much to do with the fact that these deportations are lawful and logical.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 11:55:46 AM
Jesus lads, they haven't reopened Auschwitz they are sending back some people that crossed a border illegally.

A border I may add that is at the basis of how the entire world functions.

Maybe stop buying 1 dollar sweat shop clothes made in instead of getting your panties twistes about this. But oh wait buying fair trade and sustainable will hit you in your pocket you cant afford that! Much better to passively side with illegal immigrants that are here because of your own actions :doge

Thw solutuin isnt to let 10-20-500 million people move, its to change the system.

And start by changing what YOU do yourself. Worried about climate change? Stop flying eating meat and driving petrol.

Buy fair trade etc so that people can have a fair live where they are.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: toku on June 23, 2019, 11:56:01 AM
Looking forward to discussions in my 50s about how we need to defend the purity of border lines drawn by a colonial ruling class centuries ago during campaigns of explicitly genocidal accumulation. Possibly with automated drone bombing runs aimed at hordes of central americans fleeing habitats rendered unlivable by climate change.

Ed. If I haven't been death camped by then :thinking

"Climate change and U.S. policy's. They set the building on fire and now we kill them as they flee it." I chime in as I do future batman beyond drugs.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 12:08:54 PM
Im happy to read that Esch I do my best too.

If we are to win this fight the nation state is where its at to keep corporations down and make them pay their share.

If the state is hollowed even more we are lost.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Tasty on June 23, 2019, 12:10:35 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/U1FIbxs.jpg)
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: james on June 23, 2019, 12:23:52 PM
If you want to observe the fundamentals of this country, you would agree to arm every one of those families so they can kill any government oppresor that tries to walk through the door.

Second amendment bitch
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Nintex on June 23, 2019, 12:34:12 PM
If mass migration is the solution be honest about it and prepare or send people to places where there is plenty of room to expand and the climate is ok.
However, the climate in Europe, The United States, Russia, Japan, Australia and (LMAO) Israel is ok (as well as holiday destinations such as the Carribean), while all surrounding areas are basically apocalyptic hellscapes that need to be evacuated.  :thinking

I don't think this migration wave has anything to do with the climate. That was just decided on as the 'scapegoat' for the 2008 economic crash and the failed foreign policy that hit some poor areas of the world hard.
(For example they are trying to sell 'climate' as the cause of molesting Gadaffi and Libya by extension)

 :kermit

Maybe try to make Mexico a better place to live and hold Mexico accountable for I dunno, the fact that everyone who lives there wants to GTFO.
As opposed to hammering on the already outstretched and overcrowded US immigration system. With that said, the US should do more to speed up the process of both taking people to detention centers and sending them back(with enough facilities and resources) as well as legal migration.

The big problem is that the left just wants open borders without any restrictions no matter the consequences and the right doesn't want to spend a single dime on taking care of people who enter a country illegally.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 23, 2019, 01:01:56 PM
If we are to win this fight the nation state is where its at to keep corporations down and make them pay their share.

If the state is hollowed even more we are lost.

A system of nation-states where pretend countries like Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Hong Kong (pls forgive me, Xi Jinping), get to exist even though they are neither economically viable nor forced to defend themselves from any real threat is a system where corporations will never be held accountable / pay their fair share.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 23, 2019, 01:22:01 PM

 pretend countries like Luxembourg
Deal with it
(https://c8.alamy.com/comp/DREP8T/henri-grand-duke-of-luxembourg-the-royal-family-of-luxembourg-attend-DREP8T.jpg)
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Nintex on June 23, 2019, 01:38:55 PM
If we are to win this fight the nation state is where its at to keep corporations down and make them pay their share.

If the state is hollowed even more we are lost.

A system of nation-states where pretend countries like Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Hong Kong (pls forgive me, Xi Jinping), get to exist even though they are neither economically viable nor forced to defend themselves from any real threat is a system where corporations will never be held accountable / pay their fair share.
- The Netherlands is the 5th most competitive economy in the world
- We have one of the oldest anthems
- Practically all land mass has been man made
- Ruled the world during the Golden Age
- Some of the most renowned works of art where created by Dutch artists

Invented among other things:
- Microscope
- Stock market
- Telescope
- Submarine
- Fire hose
- Tape recorder
- CD
- Bluetooth
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 23, 2019, 01:52:33 PM
if nintex wanted us to think more highly of the dutch he could just stop posting
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 23, 2019, 01:55:15 PM
The Netherlands killed the most colonial subjects in Indonesia in the 20th Century. Impressive! :o
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 23, 2019, 02:05:25 PM
Imagine being compelled into hard labor and the guy next to you in the salt mines is constantly subjecting you to his godawful improv routines.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Nintex on June 23, 2019, 02:11:06 PM
If the fashies ever came back to power I'd just rebrand myself as a Concentration Camp expert  :smug
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Rufus on June 23, 2019, 02:12:14 PM
If the fashies ever came back to power I'd just collaborate  :smug
.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: team filler on June 23, 2019, 02:18:28 PM
the fashies left power  ???
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Nintex on June 23, 2019, 02:20:09 PM
If the fashies ever came back to power I'd just collaborate  :smug
.
Who says anything about collaboration?

I would be working for the allies deep undercover.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 23, 2019, 02:36:56 PM
Kara, you can‘t call Luxembourg a pretend country while being the biggest San Marino fanboy I have ever seen on the internet. ::)
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 23, 2019, 02:39:17 PM
Kara, you can‘t call Luxembourg a pretend country while being the biggest San Marino fanboy I have ever seen on the internet. ::)

if you're telling me a country that still exists today because they let giuseppe garibaldi couch surf there for awhile is a pretend country then i don't know what to tell you :hmph
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 02:47:12 PM
(https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/000/850/bush_debate_poland.jpg)
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Nabbis on June 23, 2019, 02:48:09 PM
I feel ashamed since we only got these trash states representing europoors itt.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 23, 2019, 02:55:12 PM
I feel ashamed since we only got these trash states representing europoors itt.

Good European states:

Liechtenstein
Electorate of Trier
Sealand
Neutral Moresnet
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 23, 2019, 02:58:38 PM
Sealand never signed the Treat of Rome :wag

As if the principality would get cucked by  Brussels ::)
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: team filler on June 23, 2019, 03:04:06 PM
Nintex, don't think i don't know you're brown.



 :o
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 23, 2019, 03:32:02 PM
Nintex, don't think i don't know you're brown.

But go ahead, be a cuck to native dutch because you fall into the "contrarianism is intelligence" line of thinking :lol

Why couldn't a brown person be a native dutch?

:yikes
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: VomKriege on June 23, 2019, 04:47:27 PM
If we are to win this fight the nation state is where its at to keep corporations down and make them pay their share.

If the state is hollowed even more we are lost.

A system of nation-states where pretend countries like Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Hong Kong (pls forgive me, Xi Jinping), get to exist even though they are neither economically viable nor forced to defend themselves from any real threat is a system where corporations will never be held accountable / pay their fair share.

HK was never really held as a nation-state or an independent country though, wasn't it ? I haven't studied the legal statute of their substantial current autonomy but they never had any of the diplomatic representation and prerogatives in world affairs that a country has.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 23, 2019, 04:59:12 PM
In tax haven discourse places that aren't full blown nation-states are treated as being nation-states because their legal systems diverge substantially from their guarantor. See also: Bermuda, Cayman Islands, Jersey.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 23, 2019, 05:09:05 PM
Kara, you can‘t call Luxembourg a pretend country while being the biggest San Marino fanboy I have ever seen on the internet. ::)

if you're telling me a country that still exists today because they let giuseppe garibaldi couch surf there for awhile is a pretend country then i don't know what to tell you :hmph

The virgin Netherlands vs. the chad San Marino
-made into a giant dad by Napoleon.        -got free shit from Napoleon and remained independent
-Lost territories to Belgium    -Didn‘t want to expand
- surrendered to the Germans after 5 days.   - Was at war with Germany for over 30 years
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 23, 2019, 05:25:56 PM
-didn't have a democratic state until it was invaded by France and underwent one of its many occupations and replacements

-probably has the oldest constitution still in effect today
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: VomKriege on June 23, 2019, 05:45:28 PM
Quote
As a special administrative region of China it is independent in literally every way except for matters of defense and diplomacy

Managing your international diplomacy and national defense are pretty essential markers of being an actual independent country, so... Technically Monaco has its own self defense force.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 02:09:04 AM
Sorry I'm coming back to this again but I just wanted to comment on what illegal immigration and work actually do to a country.

Every illegal immigrant is hurting the country he resides in, he is undercutting legal workers with his low wages, driving incomes down of those already on low incomes, not paying into the system either. Millions of jobs are lost this way. It undermines the entire system.

Of course legal migration can also do this but at least the government and thus the people can set minimum (living) wages.

People that employ illegal immigrants should face the harshest penalties and sentences.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: team filler on June 24, 2019, 02:14:27 AM
I feel like I just faced some of the harshest penalties and sentences from reading your post
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 02:27:24 AM
Well get ready for 4 more years of Trump if the dems can't get their heads around that open borders and universal healthcare and expansion of state services don't go together. This is the real issue not lbgqt rights.

Maybe the US can have a union with Mexico and Canada and have some gleichschaltung in laws so that it can function idk.

Good luck.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 24, 2019, 02:30:18 AM
Every illegal immigrant is hurting the country he resides in, he is undercutting legal workers with his low wages, driving incomes down of those already on low incomes, not paying into the system either. Millions of jobs are lost this way. It undermines the entire system.

Of course legal migration can also do this but at least the government and thus the people can set minimum (living) wages.

You realize this is actually an argument for open borders, right?
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 02:34:31 AM
How?

Maybe if you are a corporation yes.

If you are a socialist that wants universal healthcare and living wages no.

What I would like the EU to do by the way is to have more strict import rules that go further then safety/enviroment. I would like to see enforced that products imported are made by workers on living wages, with healthcare, holidays, pension plans, time off etc.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 24, 2019, 02:36:54 AM
How?

You say that immigrants hurt the country by accepting low wages, but with legal immigrants this can be prevented by applying a minimum wage.

If that is the problem, then you can solve it by making all the illegal immigrants legal.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 02:40:42 AM
Except if you do that you say that the borders are open. And then you wont be able to have things like universal healthcare.

The solution is legal migration in limited numbers or a union with a lower wage country and synchronization of laws.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 24, 2019, 02:42:19 AM
We've never had universal healthcare.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 02:44:05 AM
But you do have a limited system of social welfare and many are pushing for universal healthcare.

This is the kind of muddled thinking dems present now.

You can't have it all.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 24, 2019, 02:46:06 AM
Which Dems are proposing open borders?
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 02:49:28 AM
If you want to make illegal immigrants legal you are saying its ok to come in, thus open borders.  That's the signal you are sending to everyone out there.

Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: curly on June 24, 2019, 02:49:38 AM
Genuine question: what is the current prevailing opinion on how undocumented people affect the government's finances
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 02:57:10 AM
Mandark I know you are a psychologist right? Or counselor?

If you reward someone for bad behaviour what signal is that giving?

If I tell my kid, no dessert unless you eat dinner, but give them dessert anyway when they don't finish dinner... What will they do next time? What will their siblings do? The rule of eat dinner or no dessert doesn't exist if I don't enforce it.

Seems really basic stuff to me.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 24, 2019, 02:58:59 AM
Genuine question: what is the current prevailing opinion on how undocumented people affect the government's finances

Like most of these questions it depends on how you define everything.

The biggest chunk of government spending on undocumented immigrants, IIRC, is for education, so if you project those kids as mostly staying in the US and working the math looks a lot different. I know undocumented immigrants are good for the Social Security trust fund because they won't be able to claim whatever FICA they pay using bogus SSNs.

Likewise, the net effect on the economy is really hard to tease out empirically but the whole "costs millions of jobs" rhetoric is transparently silly.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: curly on June 24, 2019, 02:59:08 AM
Mandark I know you are a psychologist right? Or counselor?

If you reward someone for bad behaviour what signal is that giving?

If I tell my kid, no dessert unless you eat dinner, but give them dessert anyway when they don't finish dinner... What will they do next time? What will their siblings do? The rule of eat dinner or no dessert doesn't exist if I don't enforce it.

Seems really basic stuff to me.

So basic that to use it as a model to explain the world is fucking idiotic
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 24, 2019, 02:59:23 AM
Mandark I know you are a psychologist right? Or counselor?

If you reward someone for bad behaviour what signal is that giving?

If I tell my kid, no dessert unless you eat dinner, but give them dessert anyway when they don't finish dinner... What will they do next time? What will their siblings do? The rule of eat dinner or no dessert doesn't exist if I don't enforce it.

Seems really basic stuff to me.

yes this is why I give you shit for your bad posts
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Mandark on June 24, 2019, 03:04:38 AM
Alternate parenting metaphor:

If you have made it clear to your children that you will permanently disown them if you catch them engaging in behavior you find immoral (using drugs, having premarital sex, gambling, etc.) then if they do any of these things and find themselves in a bad situation, they will be much more likely to hide it from you, and the situation could get much worse since they are cut off from the people best positioned to help them.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: curly on June 24, 2019, 03:15:07 AM
If the fashies ever came back to power I'd just collaborate  :smug
.

imagining nintex showing up to fascist hq to volunteer and getting iced because he's too dumb to be any use and smiling to myself
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 04:54:22 AM
Making illegals legal is showing to everyone south of the border that you can come to the US any way you want and you can stay. This means open borders.

There is no other way around it.

Alternate parenting metaphor:

If you have made it clear to your children that you will permanently disown them if you catch them engaging in behavior you find immoral (using drugs, having premarital sex, gambling, etc.) then if they do any of these things and find themselves in a bad situation, they will be much more likely to hide it from you, and the situation could get much worse since they are cut off from the people best positioned to help them.

The goal is to stop illegal migration, not to make life better for illegal migrants, so this analogy doesn't work.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 05:07:34 AM
Not directed at anyone here btw, but dems online wonder why poor uneducated folks vote for evil republicans that want to curb healthcare and shit.

Its because they are more worried about illegal migrants and jobs they are competing with them for. Yeah illegal migrants are not competing for fancy university level jobs because you cant do them illegally, but these poor uneducated folks just need any job. Their direct competition is these migrants.

If there is 1 million illegal dishwashers doing it for 4 bucks an hour then there is a lot less jobs for legal workers, not 1:1 but large amounts.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 05:15:56 AM
Are illegal immigrants the culprit or the biggest problem according to me? Not at all. Unchecked capitalism is.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 24, 2019, 06:57:27 AM
We don't want the German immigrants back. :hmph

Especially after seeing what they call authentic German bread. Traitors!  :bolo
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 08:34:47 AM
The danger/shittiness of doing this illegal activity should have nothing to do with whether its ok.

Robbery can also be dangerous, so thats ok too? Bu bu they want to do honest work! No they dont because they know before setting off all their work will be illegal.

Idk why u even bring it up?

Everyone knows these people make great sacrifices, but that has absolutely zero procent to with what we are talking about.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 08:46:57 AM
I mean fair play for taking a chance though!
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 09:04:53 AM
That obviously is a whole other ballgame and disgusting.

Dems should co-opt deportations and tough speak on illegal immigrants, but say it has to be done humane. Attack the treatment of those being deported, not deportations themselves or the hard stance.

This would swing a lot of voters.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 10:07:11 AM
Those Ukrainians are on legal temporary working permits (mostly). Great.

And yes I'm a legal immigrant.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Brehvolution on June 24, 2019, 10:09:57 AM
The US could quickly solve the immigration issue by punishing the employer of illegal immigrants. But they won't because the "job creators" want open borders.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 24, 2019, 12:51:19 PM
Not directed at anyone here btw, but dems online wonder why poor uneducated folks vote for evil republicans that want to curb healthcare and shit.

Its because they are more worried about illegal migrants and jobs they are competing with them for. Yeah illegal migrants are not competing for fancy university level jobs because you cant do them illegally, but these poor uneducated folks just need any job. Their direct competition is these migrants.

If there is 1 million illegal dishwashers doing it for 4 bucks an hour then there is a lot less jobs for legal workers, not 1:1 but large amounts.

Trump not cleaning up (or even splitting the vote) in union households or ones with income <$50,000 (https://ropercenter.cornell.edu/how-groups-voted-2016) would seem to undermine your claim.

Your prole whispering filtered through inductive reasoning also overestimates how much the "white working class" actually participates in elections (https://cdn.americanprogress.org/content/uploads/2017/10/31141939/VoterTrends2016-webtable-1-693.png). I'm sure you'll tell us this will be because no one is doing anything about immigration and not, say, that no one in the political class cares if these communities fall into oblivion (which is also the result of immigration, I'm sure!).
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 24, 2019, 12:51:53 PM
Me linking the Center for American Progress has to be Mandark linking Libcom tier, surely. :doge
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on June 24, 2019, 12:58:23 PM
Considering the election was lost by margins in a few states it seems weird you dismiss the white non educated voters.

That said you might have a better view of things in the US then me.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: kingv on June 24, 2019, 02:02:17 PM
Considering the election was lost by margins in a few states it seems weird you dismiss the white non educated voters.

That said you might have a better view of things in the US then me.

I think people are retroactively forgetting about Trumps rhetoric about “fixing” unfair trade deals and “protecting American manufacturing”.

Hillary didn’t really have a satisfying answer for that. “We are going to bring a bunch of high tech jobs and offer job retraining” doesn’t really make sense for a full grown ass man”. Especially when a lot of times taking some manufacturing job and replacing it with call center work means big pay cuts.

In some sense the TPP was kind of the right answer, but as usual, whatever we negotiated to protect jobs and workers was really just a fig leaf, and also the Democratic messaging was awful.

Trump had good messaging of “we’re going to take it to China, because their dumping is taking your jobs”, but his policy proscriptions for that are all fucked up.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: BisMarckie on June 24, 2019, 02:11:21 PM
Is this some glen/shosta collaboration post?
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: team filler on June 24, 2019, 02:13:54 PM
 :larry
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on June 24, 2019, 02:56:33 PM
Millions died over those lines being crossed. They're immaterial, but they're not imaginary.
i think this is both i) too strong wrt to a border’s justification, which is at least partly discursive and conventional (like, it’s not a fact about the natural world); and ii) too weak wrt it’s real world consequences, which are clearly material.
Quote
Ultimately and in the abstract, is a political entity sovereign over a territory in its right to deny entry to people for whatever reasons ? I don't think I've often heard that clarified by those opposing nationalist arguments, the left in particular struggle with that.
left deontological:
1. In perfect conditions, everyone would agree to not live in a society subject to a voluntarist/absolutist state
2. In non-voluntarist/absolutist states, like constitutional democracies, all policy is subject to change based on the expressions of the will of the governed (or something like this, this is a really mangled phrase)
3. In constitutional democracies, states can’t affect policy -immigration or otherwise- for whatever reason.

Left consequentialist:
1. Nativist attitudes and policies create Pareto inefficient outcomes
2. We should optimize Pareto efficient outcomes (or whatever your favorite way of measuring utility is)
3. Nativist attitudes and policies should be avoided

neoliberal answer:
1. If capital is allowed to move freely across national boundaries, then labor should too
2. Capital is currently allowed to move freely across national boundaries
3. Labor should be allowed to move freely across national boundaries

Additionally, you can argue negatively, e.g., if the nationalist’s argument at any point relies on something like national/ethnic/racial naturalism (‘the nation’ is a simple fact of the natural world and exerts some kind of mind-independent causal influence) then it’s easily countered by just denying the premise


spoiler (click to show/hide)
the real answer here is: states are bad —> we shouldn’t have any
[close]

Likewise, the net effect on the economy is really hard to tease out empirically but the whole "costs millions of jobs" rhetoric is transparently silly.
Last time I looked into this the general consensus was that low skill labor slightly depresses wages in the target industry and was an overall slight net positive in the economy at large, and that’s with factoring in consumption of public services. And that’s just short term.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Tripon on June 24, 2019, 03:14:36 PM
If you really think a border needs to be protected by physical walls and guards, then we should build a wall and heavily staff the northern border as well. But one of the issues is that we don't know how many Canadians are within the U.S., just that they are over staying their Visas.

(https://s.hdnux.com/photos/75/06/43/16017602/4/640x0.jpg)

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Canadians-top-the-list-of-visitors-overstaying-13150776.php
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Kara on June 24, 2019, 03:30:42 PM
Considering the election was lost by margins in a few states it seems weird you dismiss the white non educated voters.

That said you might have a better view of things in the US then me.

I don't dismiss them; however, the premise that they're a monolithic bloc and one that participates in massive numbers is something I don't see any evidence for. In Texas (an epicenter of the kind of far-right politics you describe) the 2016 participation rate was less than 52% (https://cdn.americanprogress.org/content/uploads/2017/10/31142126/VoterTrends2016-webtable-6-693.png) even after a participation spike of several points.

Texas and Arizona are border states with a history of very right wing politics yet as you can see neither has a particularly engaged "white working class" even when they could vote for Donald Trump.

In Wisconsin and Michigan you saw participation rates of 65% and 60% respectively. This could possibly support your hypothesis in very specific battleground states.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: kingv on June 24, 2019, 04:08:38 PM
Hillary didn’t really have a satisfying answer for that. “We are going to bring a bunch of high tech jobs and offer job retraining” doesn’t really make sense for a full grown ass man”. Especially when a lot of times taking some manufacturing job and replacing it with call center work means big pay cuts.
Right, Hillary was the only Democratic candidate who wouldn't lie about manufacturing and she got punished for it. We don't deserve her.

Quote
In some sense the TPP was kind of the right answer, but as usual, whatever we negotiated to protect jobs and workers was really just a fig leaf, and also the Democratic messaging was awful.
TPP wouldn't have had any meaningful impact on the manufacturing sector, it was mostly an agreement between developed economies to ease business relations, protect sacrosanct IP lordship, and also secure a soft-power counterweight to Chinese influence. Spend well over 250 years knocking down barriers in Asia, dominating every country, dropping nuclear weapons on Japan, killing over 200,000 of my people in the Philippines, only to have some boomer asshole blow it all over a meaningless number at the precise moment in history where discipline was most important, brehs.

Hillary didn’t lie about it, but also never really tried to have a decent answer.

“I’m not gonna lie, you’re fucked :dice” is terrible retail politics and you shouldn’t expect anyone to vote for you on an “accept your shitty fate” message.
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: thisismyusername on June 24, 2019, 04:39:26 PM
Poles talking about US politics. :kermit
Title: Re: Ice is full on raiding 10 cities tomorrow. Also a keen Filter derail. Raydahs.
Post by: Trent Dole on June 24, 2019, 04:41:31 PM
Some Poles greeted our current leader with confederate flags when he visited. :doge