THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 04:37:09 PM

Title: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 04:37:09 PM
Like I did nearly annual "I'm gonna listen to The Blueprint and see if there's anything in it worth salvaging" listen last night.

I've listened to the albums dozens of times and I still think it's wack but it's labeled a classic.

Let's start off with my criticisms towards Jay-Z:

1. His voice fucking sucks.

I like my hip hop to sound rough and raw like the nicca is gonna hate crime the fuck out of my cheeseburger self as he fucks me without a rubber.

No song exemplifies this disconnect more than the song Renegade on Blueprint, in which Eminem murders Jay on his own shit.

https://youtu.be/vtDOc6xavZw

Jay sounds so soft and his delivery fucking sucks. Then you realize he's like that every damn song. You could say I don't like his voice because it's too smooth but I love rappers like Snoop that sound hard despite their laid back demeanor.

It sounds okay at best.

Like compare voice of Jay on Empire State of Mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QsZlY0Vz4-o

Then listen to Nas' NY State of Mind.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hI8A14Qcv68

From the jump, the first "yeah, yeah...." Nas takes control. Jay however melts into the beat. He's the voice but I'm listening to the beat more than him.

Jay's voice is not pleasurable to listen to. I prefer rappers that have deep voices. Even female mc's can bring punch to their rap game that Jay simply lacks.

https://youtu.be/f8cHxydDb7o

Jay sounds just as bored as we are when he raps.

Compare to 2pac. The way he enunciates words with emphasis that draws the listener in. You feel his pain.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6yZq-clWhI

Jay isn't on that tier. He sounds like a fucking bitch.

2. His beat selection.

I just don't get it. I hear people criticize Nas for his beat selection frequently. But I can't fuck with half the beats on Jay's supposed "classic" Blueprint.

Like Takeover. It's a diss track and the beat puts me to sleep.

3. His content

Half of blueprint is bragging. I'm sorry but braggadacio is the most boring form of hip hop. Half of the album amounts to filler.

Help me understand. I love Reasonable Doubt, so I know he has gems. But the dude is utterly hit or miss with me and given his status of basically being God Emperor of Hip Hop that's kinda lacking.

Then again, I really struggle to like listening to hip hop these days. I can't listen to it for long before getting bored. Although I like hip hop, I unfortunately don't love it.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 05:35:06 PM
I like most of the blueprint but that’s it, and I have a feeling that has more to do with the producers and collaborators, and maybe even more with the time it came out. I never got Jay-Z myself, either.

I never found his content very unique or interesting, even considering when he came up. He has his own style and delivery, which is a very good thing, but I figured it just must not be my cup of tea or something. Much like Beyonce I find the cult of personality surrounding him surprising. Like, why did this dude win the fucking lottery to become the (living) rap superstar of the 90s? It’s not fair. To me he’s mediocre!
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 05:36:45 PM
Also, I lol listen to the unending bad Blueprint sequels. Keep chasing that past glory, Jay. Even he apparently know he isn’t a very good rapper. Why do people buy this shit?
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: EchoRin on November 17, 2019, 05:40:03 PM
Jay-Z knows how to business. He said it himself. He made the Yankees cap more relevant than the Yankees had.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: team filler on November 17, 2019, 05:41:26 PM
he's mf doom for boomers
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 05:55:03 PM
Jay-Z knows how to business. He said it himself. He made the Yankees cap more relevant than the Yankees had.

Yes, good ol Jay! Saving the Yankees from irrelevance in the late 90s and early 2000s! Nobody thought he could do it!
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 05:56:36 PM
Guys I think The Bore saved The Taco Bell.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: EchoRin on November 17, 2019, 05:57:30 PM
Jay-Z knows how to business. He said it himself. He made the Yankees cap more relevant than the Yankees had.

Yes, good ol Jay! Saving the Yankees from irrelevance in the late 90s and early 2000s! Nobody thought he could do it!

Lol. Ok ok. Yes the Yanks were doing just fine in baseball. But who the hell outside of North America and a couple other baseball countries was buying Yankees merch because they were Yankees fans? This ain't no Michael Jordan Bulls mania that people clung onto one star. Nobody was goign all Derek Jeter crazy in central Europe and yet Yankees hats were worn by everyone and their deceased grandparents.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 05:57:56 PM
taco bell saved taco bell. live mas
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 05:58:56 PM
Jay-Z knows how to business. He said it himself. He made the Yankees cap more relevant than the Yankees had.

Yes, good ol Jay! Saving the Yankees from irrelevance in the late 90s and early 2000s! Nobody thought he could do it!

Lol. Ok ok. Yes the Yanks were doing just fine in baseball. But who the hell outside of North America and a couple other baseball countries was buying Yankees merch because they were Yankees fans? This ain't no Michael Jordan Bulls mania that people clung onto one star. Nobody was goign all Derek Jeter crazy in central Europe and yet Yankees hats were worn by everyone and their deceased grandparents.

Madonna was, and she’s very European.

Jay can’t claim credit on this. At best he was a contributing factor.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 06:00:39 PM
Madonna also sucks.

Cyndi Lauper for life.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 06:02:04 PM
Madonna also sucks.

Cyndi Lauper for life.

No shit, I’m no dummy. Her team should’ve been on top.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: EchoRin on November 17, 2019, 06:05:08 PM

Madonna was, and she’s very European.

Jay can’t claim credit on this. At best he was a contributing factor.

Madonna bit: wait, wat?

Jay bit: I will concede

------------
Madonna got some good albums under her belt too. I'll go to bat (heh) for this song anytime

https://youtu.be/XS088Opj9o0
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 06:06:54 PM
Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: EchoRin on November 17, 2019, 06:08:38 PM
Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).
Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 06:09:29 PM
Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).
Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

Did we listen to the same podcast this week?
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: EchoRin on November 17, 2019, 06:10:31 PM
Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).
Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

Did we listen to the same podcast this week?

No. But I'd love to know what podcast it was.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 06:19:04 PM
Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).
Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

Did we listen to the same podcast this week?

No. But I'd love to know what podcast it was.

Ooh, a coincidence—savor this moment! They really only happen a few times in a lifetime.

Just came out 7 days ago! I figured since you mentioned it you must have heard it recently from the same source.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-generation-why-podcast/e/65188105?autoplay=true
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: EchoRin on November 17, 2019, 06:22:56 PM
Well, the Madonna bit was a joke about her moving to England and suddenly adopting an accent (and she dated AROD later, but I think that was after the hot streak).
Madonna dated everyone at some point. Probably even you. You just didn't realize it. But you know who she did date for sure. Bison Dele. I think you'd be amused by his wikipedia.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bison_Dele

Did we listen to the same podcast this week?

No. But I'd love to know what podcast it was.

Ooh, a coincidence—savor this moment! They really only happen a few times in a lifetime.

Just came out 7 days ago! I figured since you mentioned it you must have heard it recently from the same source.

https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-generation-why-podcast/e/65188105?autoplay=true

No. I was hanging with some of my buddies last month and all of us lived in Detroit for a long or small part of our lives. Bison played for the Pistons and me and one friend were discussing weird athlete names when the third friend brought up Bison and we were like "yeah that's pretty crazy". Then he goes on to bring up some crazy story about his death which made us go "huh". Then he tops it off by going to the guy's wiki page and all of us are like "WTF?!"
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Tasty on November 17, 2019, 06:35:07 PM
I view him as the K-Fed to Beyonce's Britney.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: agrajag on November 17, 2019, 06:35:08 PM
what year is it?

 :whatisthis
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Tasty on November 17, 2019, 06:37:22 PM
Madonna also sucks.

(https://i.imgur.com/N8sXvlM.gif)
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 06:42:43 PM
Beyoncé: a limp diva for a bent era
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 06:50:36 PM
I didn’t hate the black album but I thought the audio tracks weren’t very interesting. Jay-Z as the focal point of a Jay-Z album doesn’t work for me.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: naff on November 17, 2019, 06:56:19 PM
i like his verse in Upgrade U, especially when he chants MAFIOSO.

but really, i think the things you don't like about his voice are generally what is considered appealing. his flow is casual, effortless, and his voice control is great at blending into the beat, which imo is pretty great at delivering really fun, smart lyrics. his body of work is long spanning, consistently good with a bunch of culture defining albums. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

not to mention nuts marketing. even growing up in new zealand with no internet we knew all his classics.

comparing him to peak nas, latifah,  yeah not a lot of people are going to argue with you there. not as emotive as pac? no shit. who is? wildly different styles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7-B1ru5U-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuELGO_-lEU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BCsxQg3NE4

saying jay has a shit voice is a very hot take.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 07:01:22 PM
Hard knock life is a bad song. Only good thing is the best and Annie sample.

Girls, girls, girls is okay.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Tasty on November 17, 2019, 07:08:49 PM
Upgrade U only works because Jay is such a piece of shit to begin with

But man does it work hard
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: naff on November 17, 2019, 07:17:13 PM
Hard knock life is a bad song. Only good thing is the best beat and Annie sample.

you mean, like, the reason it's popular.

i think it's also a good example of jay z's simple pop use of his voice. iconic track for the beat and sample anyway.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Tasty on November 17, 2019, 07:28:45 PM
Hard knock life is a bad song. Only good thing is the best beat and Annie sample.

you mean, like, the reason it's popular.

i think it's also a good example of jay z's simple pop use of his voice. iconic track for the beat and sample anyway.

Doc Evil did it better. :trumps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Wn8-OMlPhY
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 07:38:01 PM
I knew this had happened before:

 http://www.thebore.com/forum/index.php?topic=39855.0

:rofl

Nas stans....

I asked a question.

This time I'm not trolling. I'm genuine in my attempt to understand and you instsntly get defensive.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 07:41:40 PM
Hard knock life is a bad song. Only good thing is the best beat and Annie sample.

you mean, like, the reason it's popular.

i think it's also a good example of jay z's simple pop use of his voice. iconic track for the beat and sample anyway.

So the reason it's popular has nothing to do with Jay's rhymes themselves.

I see.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: naff on November 17, 2019, 07:44:05 PM
one of your criticisms was his beat selection, that is iconic in that regard.

same with girls, girls, girls and i really dig his voice and flow on that track.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: bork on November 17, 2019, 07:55:47 PM
I like this song.   :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Revmkhxu7dk

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGPrX38NRZg

:heyman

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I was still in Japan when these songs came out and heard the Asher Roth one first- and thought it was his song.  Didn't know he ripped it off from Jay-Z for a few years.   :lol
[close]

[close]
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 07:56:24 PM
I like Jay's beats a lot more before Blueprint. From then on I'm not big on his beat selection. It really depends on the era for me.

i like his verse in Upgrade U, especially when he chants MAFIOSO.

but really, i think the things you don't like about his voice are generally what is considered appealing. his flow is casual, effortless, and his voice control is great at blending into the beat, which imo is pretty great at delivering really fun, smart lyrics. his body of work is long spanning, consistently good with a bunch of culture defining albums. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

not to mention nuts marketing. even growing up in new zealand with no internet we knew all his classics.

comparing him to peak nas, latifah,  yeah not a lot of people are going to argue with you there. not as emotive as pac? no shit. who is? wildly different styles

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7-B1ru5U-I

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuELGO_-lEU

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BCsxQg3NE4

saying jay has a shit voice is a very hot take.

Dead Presidents is good. Like I said I love Reasonsble Doubt.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 07:59:10 PM
Girls girls girls has some fun shit in it but I absolutely hate the refrain.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 08:20:22 PM
Name something you like from the past 10 years.

Oh absolutely. I rarely listen to hip hop much anymore though. I listen to Funk, metal, rock, blues, jazz, r&b, and classical far more. More me hip hop is a low tier for the genres of music that I like. I like basically every genre. I don't love every genre though. For me hip hop it like sweets. I can't take too much and no longer seek it out as I get older. But I still like it and partake now and then.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 08:26:07 PM
Name something you like from the past 10 years.

Oh absolutely. I rarely listen to hip hop much anymore though. I listen to Funk, metal, rock, blues, jazz, r&b, and classical far more. More me hip hop is a low tier for the genres of music that I like. I like basically every genre. I don't love every genre though. For me hip hop it like sweets. I can't take too much and no longer seek it out as I get older. But I still like it and partake now and then.

Did you watch this Cindi? Tales from the Tour Bus?

https://youtu.be/dxBukMC95Co
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: TVC15 on November 17, 2019, 08:29:29 PM
Fuck, Process and the Doo Rags was such a brilliant name for a band.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 08:35:44 PM
Also sucks for Esch to turn this into a Nas Stan thing when I love NYC hip hop in general. I don't get the things I look for in hip hop through Jay, which is mostly storytelling and emotional delivery. Take me to another place. Make a movie appear in my head. Take me  for a trip. Jay doesn't do that unlike many NY rappers. For reference, classic NYC hip hop is my favorite form of the genre.

This ties into his voice. When I say voice, I don't mean flow. Frankly, flow is overrated in the scope of hip hop. I mean his voice. It's soft. It blends into the music.

When I think of a powerful voice in hip hop, this is what I'm looking for.

https://youtu.be/kPXy-yHkULw

Listen to RZA. What he got:

- powerful storytelling
- emotional delivery that draws you into the song
- I envision a movie playing of rza the wise sage talking to his Wi brethren sipping on him
- raw production

I don't get these things when I listen to Jay and those things are why I like hip hop.

Those things are also the touchstone hallmarks of NYC hip hop.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Trent Dole on November 17, 2019, 08:41:44 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XshORRaNNNU
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 08:45:38 PM
https://youtu.be/SMDGsxSEbOE

:lawd
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 17, 2019, 08:58:03 PM
I asked a question.

This time I'm not trolling. I'm genuine in my attempt to understand and you instsntly get defensive.

Nah, this is your thing. You just want to rant about something you don't like. I get it.


You witnessed me continuously give death metal a try until I got it and this is how you picture me despite the fact you dhould know first hand that I have an open mind about music. Fuck you too.

It's less that I want to rant and more that I want to discuss. But discussion requires multiple parties. I'll lock the thread. Sorry I ever bothered.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 24, 2019, 10:23:00 PM
Still listening to Jay. RD isn't on apple music and I can't find my cd so I've been going through his discog. I've felt for the longest that Vol 1 was a weak, very commercial follow-up to RD. Vol 3 is really when he comes to his own. It's a great album. This is all a part of an effort to get back into rap. Blueprint next. Which is a chsllenge. I love the sound, beats, content, and flow on vol 3. I'm not big on BP but I'm going to keep giving it a shot and keep going.

Meanwhile listening to mc's I missed like Cube before moving onto finding modern rap I like

Haven't followed the game since the 2000's so im looking forward to playing catch up.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 24, 2019, 10:48:18 PM
Vol 2 is really when he starts to hit his stride but the album isn't the hottest imo. It has good moments tho.

Listenining to BP now. Really giving this a chance.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: kingv on November 24, 2019, 10:54:34 PM
Despite being the biggest rapper alive, Jay has never been memorable to me.

I’m not sure I could sing choruses from 5 of his songs unprompted but could probably rap along to all of 36 chambers, only built for Cuban Lynx, Ironman, and supreme clientele.

Like, Master P is more memorable to me, or that Bone Thugz ghetto Cowoboy song.

Not necessarily that those are better but they are at least memorable in their badness. jay-z is just sort of there.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 25, 2019, 05:18:29 PM
I guess I listened to too much metal before BP last time. Had to open my ear to hip hop after months and months of nothing but jazz, classical, and metal. This time I liked it a lot more. I'll keep listening and checking the lyrics for depth and content. Jay's voice gets better the more you listen to him. I'll admit I was wrong and the op was trollish.

Btw my dislike for Jay has nothing to do with Nas. It has to do with his verses on CD's Get Down. I went from listening to KRS to Jay last night. I guess I can admit he's not a bad rapper but like 50 Cent, he just doesn't make the type of hip hop that sticks with me, which is mostly conscious rap. I really prefer KRS to Jay for instance. Even then I can listen to and like more than conscious hip hop as I love early Cash Money, Camr'on, Scarface, DMX, Lox, Big, and others.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Leadbelly on November 25, 2019, 07:34:11 PM
Yeah. Never understood why people like Jay-Z. He's got way more money than he ever should have. Although I guess that is more the business side of it. I think actually he is treated by the media like this big thing rather than pure hip hop fans.

And in terms of flow, I have always thought Busta Rhymes was amazing in his early days before he fell off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNdwaCEe_PQ&list=PLddSkUxmPEC95lAZltmzxMbBzY1Wm5kjq&index=3

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PfIIICofz-w&list=PLddSkUxmPEC95lAZltmzxMbBzY1Wm5kjq&index=15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x3qbmQcimWE
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Mandark on November 25, 2019, 07:40:53 PM
My only opinion is that Takeover > Ether, but people were both itching for Nas to return to form and for someone to take Jay-Z down a peg.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: team filler on November 25, 2019, 07:45:55 PM
 :iface
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Leadbelly on November 25, 2019, 07:49:31 PM
Also sucks for Esch to turn this into a Nas Stan thing when I love NYC hip hop in general. I don't get the things I look for in hip hop through Jay, which is mostly storytelling and emotional delivery. Take me to another place. Make a movie appear in my head. Take me  for a trip. Jay doesn't do that unlike many NY rappers. For reference, classic NYC hip hop is my favorite form of the genre.

This ties into his voice. When I say voice, I don't mean flow. Frankly, flow is overrated in the scope of hip hop. I mean his voice. It's soft. It blends into the music.

When I think of a powerful voice in hip hop, this is what I'm looking for.

https://youtu.be/kPXy-yHkULw

Listen to RZA. What he got:

- powerful storytelling
- emotional delivery that draws you into the song
- I envision a movie playing of rza the wise sage talking to his Wi brethren sipping on him
- raw production

I don't get these things when I listen to Jay and those things are why I like hip hop.

Those things are also the touchstone hallmarks of NYC hip hop.

And in terms of the Wu Tang fam, 'Too Poetic' AKA 'Grym Reaper' was amazing. RIP. Not in Wu Tang, but in the extended family, so to speak. He was in Gravediggaz in which the RZA was also a part. Part of the group and also the producer.

This song is actually a collaboration with Sunz of Man and Gravediggaz, but the Grym Reaper raps on it. He raps second on this. his flow and lyrics are sick.  Pure poetry. One of the most perfect raps songs as well I think.

Those fucking lyrics man. lol

Red October causin' fish to grow arms, legs, tits
And double heads, mutating the eggs as the radiation spreads
Over the water beds, I watch Mother Nature as she bled
Grym, was placed in skin casing to begin lacing hymns
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9HFpRUjqSk
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Tuckers Law on November 25, 2019, 07:50:10 PM
For me, the appeal of Jay-Z is that he’s a lyrical target for Nas.  Represent represent.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: agrajag on November 25, 2019, 09:31:18 PM
remember when Nas called him Gay-Z   :doge
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 26, 2019, 03:45:24 AM
remember when Nas called him Gay-Z   :doge

The only thing I dislike about ether is the lazy homophobia disses. Gay Z is massive, massive low hanging fruit
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: tiesto on November 26, 2019, 07:09:50 AM
This is the only Jay-Z song that really blew me away. The dark production, the flow, the Missy chorus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e1KnK9-rPsc
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: agrajag on November 26, 2019, 09:00:55 AM
ok I'll bite, what makes Jay Z a particularly skilled MC?
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: agrajag on November 26, 2019, 09:30:47 AM
meh his flow always sounded super awks to me
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Mandark on November 26, 2019, 09:34:24 AM
The only thing I dislike about ether is the lazy homophobia disses.

That's like half the song!
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Coax on November 26, 2019, 09:36:36 AM
He has an excellent flow and weaves in and out of great lines almost effortlessly. The man in his prime was endlessly quotable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnuVkoHALLs

Ultimately became my fav track from Reasonable Doubt. Not enough of a fan of Jay-Z's output apart from that album to buy any others (I'd say the same about Nas and Illmatic) but do appreciate his lyricism, though I think I read some tracks of his were ghost written, maybe someone could clarify.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: kingv on November 26, 2019, 09:48:42 AM
I think Jay-Zs mass appeal has more to do with how he toes the line between safe and not safe.

Like he’s the rapper whose songs will be played in Walmart one day while you’re shopping. Your dad will be like “oh, he did that album with the Beatles songs! (Yes I realize he wasn’t really involved with that).”

And he like stabbed a dude, but it like must not have been a real stabbing because he got probation for like 90 days or something.

Like he’s hard, but not that hard.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: agrajag on November 26, 2019, 09:58:03 AM
I like Dead Presidents II
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 26, 2019, 11:57:24 AM
Ether was the better diss, Takeover is the better song.

The real appeal to Hov to me was his character. Particularly in Reasonable Doubt to Blueprint where he's just a pompous ass. One of the best heels rap ever had. Also dude is absolutely skilled on the mic, it feels like "real rap" backpackers always seem to ignore that he's a better MC than most of their favs.

I don't particularly like blueprint as an album either, outside of Reasonable Doubt and Black Album he doesn't really have a great album though his weaker ones tend to have stand out tracks regardless. I've said this before and I'll say it again, if we're going to bury rappers for weak discographies, then nobody is safe.

This is actually why Nas is my favorite rapper. Guy has Illmatic, It Was Written, Stillmatic, Lost Tapes, God's Son, Distance Relatives. Arguably Life Is Good which is an incredible aged rapper talking about old man shit album. That's far more great to classic albums than most MC's.

I'm not really much of a back packer tbh. To me there's a difference between backpack rap and conscious rap.

And I'm not biting on the "real rap" tip either. But at the very least speak on the issues every once in a while. I can't think of a single positive black song from Jay. But hey, I'm going through his discog.

For the record, my GOAT is actually 2pac. Compare 2pac to Jay in terms of variety. Jay gets shat on. It took Nas years to catch up to 2pac in terms of meaningful songs which Pac accomplished in only 5 years. FIVE. YEARS. The GOAT. You can say that Jay rhymes better, but this is music buddy. What matters most is the meaning. The artistry. What does Jay have to say or express about the human condition? That's what' I'm interested in. What's your message?

The core of why I think Jay is okay but not great and definitely not a legend is his take on Kanye. Dude said Kanye couldn't make it as a rapper because he wasn't a street hustler. He said all of them were street hustlers growing up and Kanye wasn't. That's how vapid Jay is. That's how limited his view of rap is. He's about the image. Jay isn't an artist. Oh, he has the capability. But ultimately he's a business man. Now whether this matters or not depends on you.

But again, it has nothing to do with backpacker vs "real rap". We co-signed Wu in this thread. Would you call Wu backpacker?

I mean, let's be honest.

This is shit I want.

https://youtu.be/7m148vZDwJA

What do YOU? Have to SAY? About the HUMAN CONDITION?

ART.

And this is why I'll always prefer Ye to Jay. Kanye is the closest to Nas in terms of good to great albums tbh for me at least.

Also imo the greatest hip hop song of all time.

https://youtu.be/O6yZq-clWhI

GOAT
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 26, 2019, 12:17:19 PM
It's also hilarious to me how on Takeover Jay takes shots at Nas for having made only 4 albums in a decade.

Truly showing his mentality for quantity > quality. At that point dude had four albums, five if you consider the Roc La Familia album. And they were all made pretty much back to back to back. And only one was considered truly great or a classic. Meanwhile Nas had Illmatic and It Was Written. I am is solid too.

Once again outing himself to be more about the game than about the art.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 26, 2019, 12:37:05 PM
how bizarre to decry jay on the basis of his constructing silly arguments about what a rapper or rap as art is and then doing the same to jay.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ww-TQUeA3E

:aah

We can keep goin bruh
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Tuckers Law on November 26, 2019, 04:23:07 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Ww-TQUeA3E

:aah

We can keep goin bruh
Heh, if we want to talk about rap artists keeping it too real...
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: EchoRin on November 26, 2019, 04:33:12 PM
Or artists who have no love for homo thugs...
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 26, 2019, 04:42:07 PM
Again, my opinions on jay have nothing to do with Nas. The only rapper I have actual Stan beef with is Big. I like Big but he dissed Pac after his death so I can never love him nor respect him as a person because I view him as a fat ass bitch made snake even if it took me two decades to admit LAD is better than All Eyez. RIP.

Also, I'm going through Jay's discog in earnest. Been listening to him the most as I get back into hip hop full time.

I never listened to anything past BPII in the paat.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 27, 2019, 12:02:11 AM
I don't get why people put such a huge emphasis on technicality in hip hop. Start happening in the 2000's. As if technicality and mutli's makes some a good emcee. Reminds me of that dude Jin flopping once he was in the studio. That's not to say that technicality isn't important but people act like it's the ONLY important factor in judging a rapper's body of work. It's like a completely generation between those who grew up listening to rap in the 90's and the people making GOAT lists on SOHH in the 2000's/coli in the 2010's.

Read this earlier this year and it perfectly articulates what I'm talking about.

https://theundefeated.com/features/2pacs-birthday-goats-and-how-we-get-hip-hop-wrong/
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: kingv on November 27, 2019, 12:57:42 AM
PAPOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 27, 2019, 02:20:45 AM
PAPOOOOOOOOOSE!!!!!

i remember when sohh was buzzing about this nicca before he dropped an album nearly a damn decade later. lmao

I was like "when is papoose going to drop his album?" as early as 2005. :neogaf
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Mandark on November 27, 2019, 10:43:52 AM
It's also hilarious to me how on Takeover Jay takes shots at Nas for having made only 4 albums in a decade.

Truly showing his mentality for quantity > quality.

excuse me
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: agrajag on November 27, 2019, 11:17:13 AM
this whole thread is cursed
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: thisismyusername on November 27, 2019, 11:18:05 AM
Where is PD when we need him? :thinking

Also NAS LOST.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: agrajag on November 27, 2019, 11:20:14 AM
didn't Nas abuse his ex wife? And the worst Jay Z has done is say some misogynistic stuff on some tracks? On that basis alone Jay Z >  Nas
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Leadbelly on November 27, 2019, 04:31:30 PM
People like different things;   some people are the same about rock music.  OMG LISTEN TO THIS GUITAR WORK, DO YOU REALIZE HOW DIFFICULT THAT IS?

Uh.. sure.. but it sounds like shit.

Hip-hop evolved in both directions;  I like technical rap, and I like mumble rap.

Unless it is Jeff Beck. He plays things that seem simple, but technically really difficult. And he always sounds amazing. Also one of those guitarists who has a sound that is completely unique to them. You know it is Jeff Beck just by listening to it.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 27, 2019, 07:17:33 PM
didn't Nas abuse his ex wife? And the worst Jay Z has done is say some misogynistic stuff on some tracks? On that basis alone Jay Z >  Nas

He denies it and says she's using the things she did to him. This year they're having a public custody battle. She attempted to move with his son to fucking Colombia. Thankfully got the matter settled. I wouldn't entirely take Kelis' word without the full facts.

Also the fact that you are bringing up in this is extremely reaching and shows how triggered you are. 2pac didn't stop a gang rape and went to jail for a sexual crime. Doesn't stop Pac from being the GOAT. Many rappers have sold drugs. Not shit like weed but crack and other drugs that actually kill people. Rappers aren't perfect and this is a wack ass argument to use. Esch used a better argument against Nas. But at the same time he ignores the good Nas has done too such as investing black youth programs and apps that teach teens financial literacy.

Stay pressed.
Where is PD when we need him? :thinking

Also NAS LOST.

Hilarious you ask for PD as if PD would cosign a post that says Nas lost which says how much you know about PD.

PD, like myself, is a Nas and Pac stan.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 27, 2019, 07:31:55 PM
Anyways still listening to Jay meanwhile branching into modern hip hop.

I've been accumulating a list and relistening to stuff from this decade.

I've had this song stuck in my head.

https://youtu.be/yS0MnKk0lrc

Was always my favorite song from takeover but I'm addicted to it now
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Tuckers Law on November 27, 2019, 07:38:05 PM
Yeah, I seem to recall reading about their custody battle earlier in the year and it all looked like a fucking mess of things, where Kelis was even held in contempt of court for pulling some shit.  I really wouldn’t be surprised if when they were together Nas and Kelis were that couple/pair that would both regularly escalate arguments into physical fights.

Always sad to see kids mixed up in two people who are wrong for each other  :fbm
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on November 27, 2019, 07:39:31 PM
Kelis' behavior is why I'm skeptical of her claims Nas beat her.

Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: benjipwns on November 27, 2019, 07:48:54 PM
You can say that Jay rhymes better, but this is music buddy. What matters most is the meaning. The artistry. What does Jay have to say or express about the human condition? That's what' I'm interested in. What's your message?

The core of why I think Jay is okay but not great and definitely not a legend is his take on Kanye. Dude said Kanye couldn't make it as a rapper because he wasn't a street hustler. He said all of them were street hustlers growing up and Kanye wasn't. That's how vapid Jay is. That's how limited his view of rap is. He's about the image. Jay isn't an artist. Oh, he has the capability. But ultimately he's a business man.
:hmm
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: agrajag on November 27, 2019, 08:14:59 PM
yes Cindi, I, the Jay Z super fan, am extremely triggered by you right now  :doge :brain
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: thisismyusername on November 27, 2019, 11:28:58 PM
Hilarious you ask for PD as if PD would cosign a post that says Nas lost which says how much you know about PD.

PD, like myself, is a Nas and Pac stan.

Hon, who said I wanted him to cosign my post. I just wanted him in here with Esch and your discussion. :doge
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Coax on November 28, 2019, 08:09:03 AM
Also imo the greatest hip hop song of all time.

For Tupac, most of my favorite material of his are the OG mixes and unpublished tracks. It's interesting to see how much the vibe changed posthumously for various tracks. Until the End of Time was such a radical shift, going from a laid back Stevie Wonder chorus with the words changed and original instrumentation to an entirely different and darker vibe (tbf I like both, the posthumous release was an earlier enough adaptation to not be as anachronistic as some, though I prefer listening to the original).
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on December 02, 2019, 01:34:35 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlBNEbeSHiY
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on December 02, 2019, 01:36:14 PM
Also imo the greatest hip hop song of all time.

For Tupac, most of my favorite material of his are the OG mixes and unpublished tracks. It's interesting to see how much the vibe changed posthumously for various tracks. Until the End of Time was such a radical shift, going from a laid back Stevie Wonder chorus with the words changed and original instrumentation to an entirely different and darker vibe (tbf I like both, the posthumous release was an earlier enough adaptation to not be as anachronistic as some, though I prefer listening to the original).


I'll be honest.

I haven't listened to a single posthumous 2pac album besides Makaveli and Greatest hits because I do not trust other peoples vision of 2pac's artistry and who he was as a person. I don't like how they use posthumous verses of Big and Pac and put modern day rappers, like 50 Cent or something, on a track that 2pac probably wouldn't even cosign. It feels wrong to me and I've never bothered with any of that shit because of it.

I'm not sure if that concern is misplaced or not but it's how I feel.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on December 20, 2019, 12:51:53 PM
Listened to post BP2 Jay for the first time and he really comes into his own. The run of Black Album, Kingdom Come, and American Gangster is incredible. American Gangster could be a classic. Listened to it three times in a row.

Seems I was right and older Jay > younger Jay
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Phoenix Dark on December 20, 2019, 02:26:56 PM
Where is PD when we need him? :thinking

Also NAS LOST.

I'm as disgusted as you.
 :oreilly

I'm a Nas stan. Young PD once told some HS friends that Braveheart Party was better than H To The Izzo. I'm a solidified Esobar cigarillo. THAT BEING SAID, as a grown man who has left the stan wars behind (for the most part)...I can't imagine hating on Jay like this. Are you saying Reasonable Doubt isn't a great album? He doesn't have the best voice - hell, Jay himself has said he didn't like his voice - but...he can rap. Very well. And he has a lot of songs and albums that are good. I can see not liking Hov's mainstream tracks, and lord knows he has the greatest PR team in his pocket...but come on. D'Evils isn't great? 99 Problems isn't great?
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on December 20, 2019, 03:02:04 PM
I said flat out that RD is great in the OP.

His Volumes series vary in quality.

BP is good.

BP2 is highly flawed.

That was the extent of my Jay knowledge besides certain singles (99 problems) and features.

Unfortunately his features always made me never want to check out his music. He had a tendency of ruining songs.

Again, this has nothing to do with Nas or Stan wars. I legitimately do not fuck with some of his music.

After this song why would any sensible hip hop fan want to listen to more Jay?

https://youtu.be/p4NvOKy7GOU

My cursory 19 year old opinion of Jay after this song,"this nicca is vapid af, gonna turn a spiritual song about himself. Boy has the content variety of a bag of M&M's" as I put in my MF Doom CD in my car stereo.

Around CD dropped I checked him out to learn beyond my casual knowledge of him. This was in 2004/2005. At the time, he only had RD, Vol 1-3, BP1 and 2 and Black Album. I liked RD the most and thought it was the only great album of the bunch, which I consider a classic. Never bothered to listen to Black Album because BP2 was so bad.

So I haven't bothered to listen to him over a decade. I didn't listen to Throne, despite being a Kanye fan, specifically because it was tied with Jay-Z.

Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Phoenix Dark on December 20, 2019, 03:07:28 PM
It's 2019, you know I don't be reading long ass posts.  :doge

What about The Black Album. It's a great album. Did you listen to his last album? It's right up your alley. It has flaws that I won't go into here yet, but it's definitely an album where he shows growth lyrically.

I'd be curious to get your perspective on Kingdom Come. Perhaps the most panned Jay album, but I thought it was at least interesting and an interesting transition to more personal songs.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on December 20, 2019, 03:14:05 PM
Written right above your post.

Listened to post BP2 Jay for the first time and he really comes into his own. The run of Black Album, Kingdom Come, and American Gangster is incredible. American Gangster could be a classic. Listened to it three times in a row.

Seems I was right and older Jay > younger Jay

His content variety grows the older he gets.

I've heard about his album 444 and it sounds my kinda hype and I'm excited exploring the rest of his discog and seeing him grow as an artist beyond braggadocio.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Phoenix Dark on December 20, 2019, 03:22:34 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5fxxMRzi1Q
:whew
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on December 20, 2019, 03:35:25 PM
Another example.

When I was a hip hop head my main source of finding new rappers I fuck with was gauging their verses on features. Heard Lupe on Kanye's LR and consumed Food and Liquor like it was my diet. I really like Kanye and Jay would be on his albums as a guest a lot. And every single damn time, I was disappointed with Jay's verses. It was where I could understand their quality on technical level but they never hit me on an emotional level.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7T3jSZUpiis

I mean, he has great lines.

I had to get off the boat so I could walk on water

:lawd

Until you realize that he made a verse about himself - AGAIN - on a song about BLOOD DIAMONDS. So when I hear that, it tells me his limitations as an artist. In almost every feature, he just rapped about himself. Bragging is nice, but not when it's all you have. Then I checked out his albums and it wasn't much different (with few exceptions).

Given all this it's pretty easy to come to the conclusion that Jay-Z is an overrated hack depending on what you look for in music.

Now that song PD posted, Marcy Me, is great. It truly shows Jay leveled up his game and my exploring his discog won't be for naught.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Phoenix Dark on December 20, 2019, 03:49:08 PM
Lets not forget Kanye didn't wrap about that shit either. Lupe remixed the song and made it about blood diamonds. Then Kanye released his own remix that addressed the topic (plus the Hov verse). I kinda wonder if Hov's verse was initially supposed to be on the original version because like you said...it doesn't fit the remix.

I remember us talking about this like 15 years ago lmao.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on December 20, 2019, 03:51:14 PM
Lets not forget Kanye didn't wrap about that shit either. Lupe remixed the song and made it about blood diamonds. Then Kanye released his own remix that addressed the topic (plus the Hov verse). I kinda wonder if Hov's verse was initially supposed to be on the original version because like you said...it doesn't fit the remix.

I remember us talking about this like 15 years ago lmao.

I give a pass to Kanye because he rapped about so much different things.

I really wanted to drop out of college so CD was like my bible for instance.

And yeah we did lmao
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on February 07, 2020, 04:50:23 PM
Been listening to Jay non stop for a month now.

444 and Magna Carts are classics. I don't get  The Throne but it's ok.

I legitimately think Jay is having an actively positive experience on my mindset. Every day is a hustle as I put a lot of work into my career change and developing necessary skills as fast as possible.

I never realized hip hop could give the listener such confidence. There's songs like They Try To Bring Me Down by Kanye or It's your World by Common but not to the degree Jay inspires.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on February 07, 2020, 08:26:04 PM
I apologize for my narrow mindedness in this thread :stahp
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on February 07, 2020, 08:43:15 PM
Favorite Jay lyric?
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: toku on February 07, 2020, 08:58:32 PM
I really recommend making a playlist out of motivational rap songs. I remember taking the bus at like 4 in the morning dead tired to work listening to this:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
https://youtu.be/4fWZ0cwAp94
[close]

ain't nobody gave a shit/ and that's why we grind weight

 :tocry

+3 to all stats
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: HardcoreRetro on February 08, 2020, 06:28:21 AM
https://youtu.be/ZAKcECSXy98   

This always cheers me up.
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Mr. Nobody on February 08, 2020, 12:35:03 PM
Why am I not surprised this thread came from a "hiphop died in 1996 with Tupac" type  :neogaf
Title: Re: Someone help me understand the appeal of Jay-Z. I've tried man and dude is wack
Post by: Himu on February 08, 2020, 02:12:02 PM
Didn't say that at all. I've given dap to many rappers in this thread. You're just stupid.