THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Cheebs on April 24, 2007, 09:47:36 AM
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He admits he bowed to studio pressure to put Venom in.
Question: Were you reticent about having so many characters to deal with, especially the villains?
Raimi: Well, I had, there's so many fears I have in the making of the movies, that that's just one of them, so I don't want to make it seem overblown in my vast array of things I'm terrified of that people won't like. But I had worked on the story with my brother Ivan, and primarily it was a story that featured the Sandman. It was really about Peter, Mary Jane, Harry, and that new character. But when we were done, Avi Arad, my partner and the former president of Marvel at the time, said to me, Sam, you're so, you're not paying attention to the fans enough. You need to think about them. You've made two movies now with your favorite villains, and now you're about to make another one with your favorite villains. The fans love Venom, he is the fan favorite. All Spiderman readers love Venom, and even though you came from 70s Spiderman, this is what the kids are thinking about. Please incorporate Venom, listen to the fans now. And so that's really where I, I realized okay, maybe I don't have the whole Spiderman universe in my head, I need to learn a little bit more about Spiderman and maybe incorporate this villain to make some of the real diehard fans of Spiderman finally happy.
The key problem with the movie I can gather from early reviews is that the film is rushed strongly due to the fact it has too many bad guys and the venom arc feels somewhat tacked on.
Despite Sandman being somewhat boring the film likely would have been SO MUCH better if he didn't throw so much into it due to studio pressure and had his own well paced film.
Sam why! :'(
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I knew all along he bent over. Why else would he talk all throughout S-M and S-M2 about only loving the classic villains/hating Venom, only to do an abrupt turn?
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It just doesn't feel right. I mean we all know the studio is going to do 4-forever when he runs off to play with the hobbit or whatever he plans to do, why not let him keep his style of 60's stan lee spider-man and do whatever they want in later films be it venom or carnage or whatever?
Every sign shows this movie being enjoyable but very rushed and not fleshed out. Sam Raimi bowed to studio pressure and for that the film has less of that soul that made spidey 2 so great it seems.
Oh and the same interview more or less confirms he is in deep talks to do the hobbit. He did weird little pr avoidance stuff that he likely wouldn't do if he wasn't heavily in talks:
Question: New Line has also rumored to approach you to do The Hobbit. Have they approached you to do The Hobbit? Was are the rumors, fact, fiction?
Raimi: Well, the truth is I just don't know what I'm going to do next, that's the most honest answer I can give you. And I can't honestly say, even though I have spoken to Bob Shay, that--I don't know that I could honestly say that anything's been offered to me until some time in the future, because, it just wouldn't be exactly right. Or true.
that sounds to me like he has been offered the film and hasn't said no
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S-M2 will have tons more soul, and it will make a ton more too at the box office. Arad doesnt know shit.
S-M: $400M
S-M2: $375M
S-M3 prediction: $250M. Being the sequel to S-M and S-M2 will guarantee it breaks $200M, but I think critical word, and general moviegoer word of mouth is gonna hurt this one, and its not gonna get the repeat viewings that pushed the other ones over the top. Hell, I saw S-M2 in theatres like 4 times! I dont think Ill be seeing 3 more than once, and even then, Im not going until its been open for 2 weeks.
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SM3 has a problem 2 and 1 never faced. Somewhat mediocre press reviews. Basically every review has "It's good...BUT" the first two never had that. If Sony and Marvel left Raimi to his devices it would have the soul that 2 had which made everyone fall in love with it. People didn't like spidey 2 because it had a badass bad guy. Hell most of the film was about Peter, not Spider-Man fighting.
Also it doesn't help it has pirates 3 and shrek 3 coming out very quickly after.
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Exactly. S-M2 was more of an underdog story than anything else, and perhaps thats why I love it so much. Actually though, S-M got fairly mediocre reviews. I think it made so much just because we FINALLY got a S-M movie. S-M2 was the critical darling. I actually half think it ended up with the highest tomatoemeter rating of 2004.
S-M3 has mediocre reviews, 2 other blockbusters, and movies like Batman Begins still fresh in the public's mind.
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Speaking of Batman Begins I do have one fear about the dark knight. The best parts of Begins are the parts of the film are those centered on Bruce Wayne, not Batman. With the pressure of the Joker in part 2 I hope nolan doesn't feel the need to focus on lots of action scenes of Batman vs. Joker throughout the whole film and have bruce pushed to the sidelines.
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Speaking of Batman Begins I do have one fear about the dark knight. The best parts of Begins are the parts of the film are those centered on Bruce Wayne, not Batman. With the pressure of the Joker in part 2 I hope nolan doesn't feel the need to focus on lots of action scenes of Batman vs. Joker throughout the whole film and have bruce pushed to the sidelines.
I hope the cut the gravely voice shit. Christian Bale makes it wincingly bad.
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Speaking of Batman Begins I do have one fear about the dark knight. The best parts of Begins are the parts of the film are those centered on Bruce Wayne, not Batman. With the pressure of the Joker in part 2 I hope nolan doesn't feel the need to focus on lots of action scenes of Batman vs. Joker throughout the whole film and have bruce pushed to the sidelines.
I hope the cut the gravely voice shit. Christian Bale makes it wincingly bad.
Batman always does that, just not to the extent of Bale. I don't mind it.
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Variety's review:
The three main recurring characters get stuck in a rut and the same can be said of the film itself in "Spider-Man 3." After the significant improvement of the second installment over the first, new entry reps a roughly equivalent dip in quality and enjoyment, with Spidey now giving off the faint odor of running on fumes. This devaluation shouldn't hurt at the box office, at least at first, as the vast majority of the fans who turned the first two into $822 million and $784 million worldwide grossers, respectively, will cram multiplexes around the globe to see the first blockbuster of the summer.
A sense of strain envelops the proceedings this time around. One can feel the effort required to suit up one more time, come up with fresh variations on a winning formula and inject urgency into a format that basically needs to be repeated and, due to audience expectations, can't be toyed with or deepened very much.
Big problem with third Spideyis the script, the very same element that elevated the second yarn. Four years back, vet scenarist Alvin Sargent, with a story assist from Michael Chabon, enriched the premise from all angles -- emotion, humor and villainy. This time, the magic has eluded Sargent and the Raimi brothers, director Sam and co-writer Ivan, the result being a story that would have provenmore satisfactory for a late '60s cartoon-hero TV show than for a new-century blockbuster.
At the outset, everything is so hunky-dory that New York City looks like Pleasantville. Thanks to Spider-Man, crime is virtually non-existent, Mary Jane (Kirsten Dunst) is a burgeoning musical theater star, and Peter Parker (Tobey Maguire), still studying science at college, is dorkier than ever.
But evil begins to reassert itself on several fronts. As Peter and Mary Jane gaze at the stars from their spider-web hammock overlooking the city, a modest "War of the Worlds"-like meteor crashes nearby and emits a gooey black silk that slithers and slides of its own accord.
A hard-outside/soft-inside criminal (Thomas Haden Church), who turns out to have been responsible for the murder of Peter's beloved Uncle Ben, escapes from prison and, through a process that defies comprehension but is undeniably eye-catching, turns into a shape-changer named Sandman who can blow through the caverns of Manhattan or become a giant hulk with fearsome pummeling power.
And then there is Harry Osborn (James Franco), who, still blaming Spider-Man for the death of his father, decides to emulate the great green one by engineering a new designer Goblin outfit and flying board and taking to the skies to avenge his old man.
Peter acquires yet another adversary in the person of Eddie Brock (Topher Grace), an aggressive street photographer who vies with Peter to capture the revelatory shot that will reveal Spider-Man for who he really is, a coup that will land the winner a full-time job from editor J. Jonah Jameson (J.K. Simmons) at the Daily Bugle. The rivalry turns into outright war when Eddie morphs into one more Marvel supervillain, the fanged Venom, whose skills eerily match those of Spidey.
Early going is enlivened by a couple high-wire action sequences, a Goblin attack and especially a vertigo-inducing scene in which an out-of-control construction crane demolishes part of a nearby skyscraper, sending platinum blonde Gwen (Bryce Dallas Howard), a classmate of Peter's, heading toward the pavement, only to be saved at the last second by guess who.
But the dramatic temperature is brought way down by Mary Jane, who's become a real drag. Fired, in a poor scene, from her Broadway play, she pathetically begs for attention, becomes petulant when Spidey plants a public kiss on Gwen after saving her, then seeks solace from Harry.
In all his dealings with her, Peter still acts like the prim, naive high school kid he was when first seen in the series five years ago, as if he hadn't learned anything through all his subsequent trials. Scripting of the many domestic scenes between Peter and women, specifically Mary Jane and Rosemary Harris' Aunt May, is very dull and unimaginative.
Script's one big idea is to have Peter/Spidey explore his "dark side," a gambit of tiresome psychological value but with the obvious side benefits of temporarily suspending his goody two-shoes personality and giving him a new, black costume. All the ploy really amounts to is an interlude in which Peter struts around Gotham with a trendy new haircut ogling women and humiliating Mary Jane with some aggressive nightclub antics.
Given the setup, Spider-Man in the end has to contend with multiple villains in a gigantic action climax that, unfortunately, is too reminiscent of the first film's Roosevelt Island episode thanks to the similar imperilment of Mary Jane. Still, Sandman is a strange and visually interesting baddie endowed by Church with a melancholy undercurrent.
Grace, who could plausibly have played Spider-Man himself, provides a spark with something extra as Spidey's first major adversary his own age.
Technically, pic is fully on a par with the previous entries, which means the visual effects will have fans wide-eyed throughout.
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sounds like they shoulda just stuck with sandman. th "lowell" church rocks -- he was stellar in sideways.
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Isn't that what ruined Batman (besides Joel Shumacher)? That they had to put in more and more shit in each film, when your BATMAN film has all those extra characters, the gy everyone cares about gets the short shrift. No wonder Raimi wants to bail and do The Hobbit, he'll probably have more control.
and Arad knows squat about movies. It might not be fair to blame him for Elektra, The Punisher, Man-Thing, and every other shite Marvel film to come out in the last decade, but I sure as hell can blame him for whoring out the characters to the hacks that have directed most of the output.
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Doc Oc > Venom anyway. They didnt even do Venom right. Venom is supposed to be huge, I mean he fought toe to toe with the fukin Juggernaught.
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Yeah, this Venom is just like Black Spiderman with sharp teeth
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Mysterio>Sandmana
Willco why you hatin?
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Mysterio is a joke.
This has been known to anyone with half a brain from the get-go. The good thing is, the early reviews from actual critics (IGN has theirs up, Levy has his, Variety, Hollywood Reporter, etc.) and not AICN people seems to be pretty much entirely good, save for Variety. It's at 86% at Rotten Tomatoes, and I bet it ends up with 79 to 82% fresh. The reviews seem to say the same thing, this is surprisingly good considering the amount of subplots included, the action set pieces are top notch, the film serves as a fitting conclusion to the series (or at the very least, the Osborn arc) and that it rests between the original and Spidey 2. But it's no Spidey 2.
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Sounds like the Xmen trilogy situation. X1 was suprisingly good, X2 was OMG, X3 was meh but not horrible
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Similar, but it's not crappy like the last one. If you liked Spider-Man, you will probably like this one. Some of the subplots are forced, but they all tie up for an entertaining adventure. There's just not enough depth given to certain elements of the movie.
Again, I liken Spidey 3 to Return of the Jedi, not X-Men 3, when talking about capping off a genre trilogy.
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Spider 3's emo antics make it revolting to me, unlike Jedi which at least had the cool space ship battle and better haircuts.
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I think walking in with low or negative expectations, as clearly Cheese is doing (:P) is probably best. I know folks are harping on the film with that Variety review, but Hollywood Reporter and IGN were both very happy with the film. It's not going to be the critical darling that Spider-Man 2 was, but I think it's going to be a lot better than most people, myself included, expected it to be.
Spider 3's emo antics make it revolting to me, unlike Jedi which at least had the cool space ship battle and better haircuts.
It's just another way of seeing this dark Peter, and it bends more to the Ultimate version of the character, which is what this film series is really based off of. You don't seem to care for the film material pulled from that version of the character so much, so I wouldn't expect you to like this either.
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I honestly cant re-watch the spiderman movies, I tried once, the second one, but there's so much boring stuff in between the cool.
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Again, I can understand your complaints. You're coming from an ASM angle for the character, which is more in line with the FOX animated cartoon. That's not what this series is about. Considering they want to do another trilogy after this one, they'll probably have to go to that series, as Peter is still a teenager in Ultimate Spider-Man.
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I think walking in with low or negative expectations, as clearly Cheese is doing (:P)
Which is what I must do! Spider-Man 2 was my #1 film of 2004, I really don't want to be dissapointed.
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Yeah, holding it up to be as good or superior to Spidey 2 is probably not a good idea. It won't match that. I'm just saying, I don't think it'll be as bad as you think. IGN called it a fitting conclusion and everyone has raved about the action set pieces, so that's the bar for me. Just a fitting conclusion.
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Yeah, holding it up to be as good or superior to Spidey 2 is probably not a good idea. It won't match that. I'm just saying, I don't think it'll be as bad as you think. IGN called it a fitting conclusion and everyone has raved about the action set pieces, so that's the bar for me. Just a fitting conclusion.
I know it won't but I don't want to get excited for it and ruin everything.
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I just want 2 hours of knock down drag out fighting where the last 5 minutes has spider staggering through the rubble of the city with half his guts hanging out while he drags the the torso of the defeated around.
Spiderman vs 300!
Seriously tho I dunno, it just seems like I have to see these Origin stories over and over again for shit I already know. I mean the 1st spiderman movie is all great power blah blah yeah I didnt have to read that 80 times in the comics. The result is a theme that comes off as kinda cheesy to me.
ANYWAY yeah, I liked X2 so much because most of the movie was actual superhero stuff and not people dressed as superheroes dealing with ordinary problems.
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Spider 3's emo antics make it revolting to me, unlike Jedi which at least had the cool space ship battle and better haircuts.
that's a lie and you know it. Mark Hamil has never once had a good haircut in his entire life.
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Im putting S-M2 (once again, my favorite comic book movie by leaps and bounds) firmly out of mind for S-M3. And I think that, like Willco, being down on S-M3 during its production may lead to us being, *gasp* pleasanty surprised. As long as its not sub-S-M1, Ill be happy.
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Im putting S-M2 (once again, my favorite comic book movie by leaps and bounds) firmly out of mind for S-M3. And I think that, like Willco, being down on S-M3 during its production may lead to us being, *gasp* pleasanty surprised. As long as its not sub-S-M1, Ill be happy.
Yeah. I think right now there is not a chance in the world this will be Spidey 2 quality. I'll be happy if it is SM1 quality.
It will regardless be better than the part 3 in every super hero franchise ever (Superman III, Batman Forever, X-Men 3)
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It is depressing though that studio meddling ruined what could have been the best superhero trilogy ever. Now it looks like BB/TDK/? will have no competition there, and WB seems to give Nolan freedom rather than force changes on him.
If I had my way, S-M3 would be no Venom, and no Sandman. Just a 2 hour movie (instead of the almost 3 its reported to be) with Harry as the villain, giving full closure to that arc.
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I blame Arad for the Venom stuff. Marvel gets far too involved in this, DC seems to be very hands off for what goes on in the Superman and Batman films.
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Yeah, exactly. I could have more precisely said Arad. What a meddler. Sad thing is, hes ALWAYS a producer on Marvel films, so he basically has the clout to force whatever he wants into a film, despite not knowing shit about filmmaking.
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to be fair, the WB/DC combo has an even worse batting average then Marvel does. The Dolph Lundgren Punisher film is superior to the following...
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/0/04/Catwoman_poster.jpg/200px-Catwoman_poster.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/a/a2/Batman_%26_robin_poster.jpg/200px-Batman_%26_robin_poster.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/96/Smp.jpg)(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/5c/Superman_iv.jpg/200px-Superman_iv.jpg)
I would also include Superman Lifts Increasingly Heavy Objects (Superman Returns to most people) to the shit list. To their credit, Constantine was sorta good, and the Swamp Thing films are pretty awesome, but I think we're all going by recent history here.
so Arad has overseen a lot of crap, but it very well could be worse.
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I am mainly talking about how modern day WB/DC is handling their film franchises (not the quality of past work) and they are letting the film makers more leeway. Marvel is too hands on with their movies.
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Man, catwoman...so bad
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good, Harry looks laughable from the trailers alone and Sandman...ugh seriously Venom will save this movie.
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good, Harry looks laughable from the trailers alone and Sandman...ugh seriously Venom will save this movie.
Venom is tacked on and has all of 15 min of screen time
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Venom should've been the main villain, here. I don't think anyone would've minded if Harry just fell down some stairs in the beginning and died.
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Youre the viewer Avi Arad is playing to.
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i KNOW :D
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I like venon but he should NOT be in the movie. Sam Raimi and his brother wrote this third film and he directed it. Raimi hates Venom and he won't put out his highest quality work when he is forced to work with Venom. Rami's movies(well for 1 and 2) felt like the stan lee 60's-70's era Spider-Man and it should have remained that way for part 3.
Leave that to the new crew for 4-6.
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Venom is tacked on and has all of 15 min of screen time
Actually it's been confirmed than a bit more than that.
Venom should probably not be in that movie, but the early reviews are coming in and they're - gasp! - not awful. Most say that Venom is a neat character, probably because he's just an evolution of Brock, who you see downspiral the entire film. I think it's other subplots, like Gwen Stacy, that seemed forced.
Interesting thing is that my early sources were right and that Raimi and crew wanted to do 3 and 4 back-to-back with Venom as the story for 4, but that idea was shot down for whatever reason.
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Venom is tacked on and has all of 15 min of screen time
Actually it's been confirmed than a bit more than that.
Venom should probably not be in that movie, but the early reviews are coming in and they're - gasp! - not awful. Most say that Venom is a neat character, probably because he's just an evolution of Brock, who you see downspiral the entire film. I think it's other subplots, like Gwen Stacy, that seemed forced.
Interesting thing is that my early sources were right and that Raimi and crew wanted to do 3 and 4 back-to-back with Venom as the story for 4, but that idea was shot down for whatever reason.
The cast is only signed on for 3. It would likely be damn costly to get Tobey back. He has been wishy-washy about this entire franchise since he finished one.
He was asked at a Spidey 3 premiere what he thought of the movie and he said something like "It was ok I guess." :lol He is such a weirdo
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I think that's what shot it down - was Maguire. Dunst would've came back and everyone else needs the job. You'll notice that a lot of crew were signed for Spider-Man 4 initially, including Alvin Sargent. And before shooting, several merchandising companies had listings for Spider-Man 4. It was in the works.
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I think that's what shot it down - was Maguire. Dunst would've came back and everyone else needs the job. You'll notice that a lot of crew were signed for Spider-Man 4 initially, including Alvin Sargent. And before shooting, several merchandising companies had listings for Spider-Man 4. It was in the works.
Yep, yep. Kirsten was willing to continue all signs show if Raimi and Tobey did. Tobey looks to want to get out of Spider-Man as quickly as possible. His little "injury" pre-SM 2 made this obvious.
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Tobey is a fucking baby.
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Its weird because you always heard that Dunst was the one who wanted out. Yet just yesterday I saw her interviewed (and she looked *gasp* showered, unstoned, and actually pretty, for once) and she said that she'd love to do another, if Tobey and Sam are also down. Even though it seemed like it would never happen say, a year ago, now Im starting to think 3 may not be the end. I mean, we know its not the end, since Sony wants 400 movies, but I mean of this cast and crew.
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Sony wants at least another trilogy, but I think Raimi & Co. are done for this one. Could be nice to wait a few years and start up with a new trilogy that just works from the continuity of this one with a new cast and crew. Kind of like how writer/illustrator team changes on comic book runs.
IGN threw Edgar Wright's (Shaun of the Dead, Hot Fuzz) name in the ring as a good replacement for Raimi and that's the first suggestion I've heard other than my own that I really dig. I think Michel Gondry would be an inspired choice, personally... if they could get him.
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Tobey would cost far too much to come back and the recent press ring of interviews for Raimi shows him shockingly being very wishy-washy in that pr hollywood way when asked if he is directing the hobbit acting like he can't talk about something which should signal he is in the middle of potentially signing something. I doubt if he is really getting to do the hobbit he would want back for 4.
And Willco, Edgar has said in the hot fuzz circuit that Ant Man is his next project. I doubt he would do another super hero film after that
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Raimi sold out
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And Willco, Edgar has said in the hot fuzz circuit that Ant Man is his next project. I doubt he would do another super hero film after that
Ever? I doubt that. We're talking years away here and Sony has a lot of money. Have you ever seen a briefcase with $3 million in it? THAT CHANGES PEOPLE.
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Gondry doing a superhero movie? That would be all forms of wacky, but he might just be a good man for such a thing.
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And Willco, Edgar has said in the hot fuzz circuit that Ant Man is his next project. I doubt he would do another super hero film after that
Ever? I doubt that. We're talking years away here and Sony has a lot of money. Have you ever seen a briefcase with $3 million in it? THAT CHANGES PEOPLE.
I dont want edgar trapped in super hero land after ant man :( He needs to do more comedy films
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Gondry doing a superhero movie? That would be all forms of wacky, but he might just be a good man for such a thing.
I think it would be whacky and awesome!
And Cheebs, we're years away from Spider-Man 4. Probably 5-8 years. That's a lot of time to do other projects.
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And I don't think Sam Raimi sold out as much as it was just ego that allowed him to believe he could juggle so many characters and make a good film. And for the most part, it sounds like he did that. The problem is, he has sacrificed the quality to the point where it won't meet the bar of Spidey 2.
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Willco I am curious about your view on this. If the early talks(which Raimi has confirmed have happened) pan out and he directs The Hobbit, how do you feel he'll do? He doesn't sound like he wants to do LOTR-light. In a interview with dark horizons he said it would be appealing because it is much more lighter and kid friendly.
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Have you ever read The Hobbit? It is much more kid friendly and lighter. People often refer to it as the fun, charming story that serves as a great prequel or the calm before the storm. That was the first Tolkien book I read when I was a kid.
I think Sam Raimi would probably make a damn fine adaptation, but I also think he is treading dangerous territory. Tolkien is almost synonymous with P.J. in your average movie-goer's eyes and any Lord of the Rings related film will be scrutinized and compared to Peter Jackson's trilogy. I just think you have too many factors working against you to make it work, so I'd be happier if he wound up doing 30 Days of Night or something else.
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30 Days has a director though, doesnt it? Hard Candy guy?
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Have you ever read The Hobbit? It is much more kid friendly and lighter. People often refer to it as the fun, charming story that serves as a great prequel or the calm before the storm. That was the first Tolkien book I read when I was a kid.
I think Sam Raimi would probably make a damn fine adaptation, but I also think he is treading dangerous territory. Tolkien is almost synonymous with P.J. in your average movie-goer's eyes and any Lord of the Rings related film will be scrutinized and compared to Peter Jackson's trilogy. I just think you have too many factors working against you to make it work, so I'd be happier if he wound up doing 30 Days of Night or something else.
I read it of course but PJ wanted to make it LOTR light with Aragorn and stuff.
I agree about how it is tough terrority, a guy who is pretty well in the know over at home theater forum said the talks are farther along than one would expect and that Sony is treating Sam VERY well and playing nice to him in hopes of having Raimi pick SGI(their effects studio) over weta for it to put them over the map. So it sounds like he is getting pretty damn close to getting the project.
But I do wonder about the PJ backlash. Look at X-Men 3 and all the horrible backlash, not just relating to Singer but the project as a whole and it didn't hurt it one bit.
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Last I heard it was in development hell and Steve Niles was holding out hope Raimi would do it when he stepped off of Spidey projects. Cool news, if so.
But I do wonder about the PJ backlash. Look at X-Men 3 and all the horrible backlash, not just relating to Singer but the project as a whole and it didn't hurt it one bit.
It didn't hurt it the first weekend, but it was a critical dud and a commercial letdown. Very frontloaded pic that underperformed in the long run. Most people speculated that if Singer helmed the project, it would've made a lot more money.
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Last I heard it was in development hell and Steve Niles was holding out hope Raimi would do it when he stepped off of Spidey projects. Cool news, if so.
It would be all over if he signed something, talks in hollywood often fall apart at the last minute. But if Sony is thinking it is far along enough to try to cozy up to Raimi to get SGI the effects for the project then it must be in depth.
A lot more? It made a good deal more than X2 and singer's own superman returns
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Raimi is all wrong for The Hobbit. Hell, I honestly would love to see him keep doing Spidey movies if the cast is still interested.
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Raimi is all wrong for The Hobbit. Hell, I honestly would love to see him keep doing Spidey movies if the cast is still interested.
qft
Hobbit is going to be a trainwreck
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Uh, Cheebs, it made just $20 million more than X2. And its budget was twice the size of X2 with more money dumped into marketing. The film barely made its budget back in domestic earnings.
I don't know what you're on about.
It was a critical dud and it didn't nearly have the merchandising success that the license enjoyed around Singer's reign (like the dumb Wolverine video game and such). It was a frontloaded pic that scored low and died out pretty quick.
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Uh, Cheebs, it made just $20 million more than X2. And its budget was twice the size of X2 with more money dumped into marketing. The film barely made its budget back in domestic earnings.
I don't know what you're on about.
It was a critical dud and it didn't nearly have the merchandising success that the license enjoyed around Singer's reign (like the dumb Wolverine video game and such). It was a frontloaded pic that scored low and died out pretty quick.
It might help that I didn't really pay attention it after the initial buzz of its fantastic record breaking opening weekend.
Willco, whats the story with x-men anyway? It had a cliff hanger ending(after credits with xavier and before the credits with the magneto moving the chess piece) and yet Fox seems to want to put the franchise to bed.
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I heard that Ratner filmed that, so that was a Ratner thing. Tim Rothman hates the X-Men franchise and it's pretty much dead at this point. I don't think most of the cast wants to return at this rate.
The Last Stand barely made more than its predecessor. It enjoyed a huge opening, but it had absolutely no legs whatsoever. Nobody wants to take credit for its success either, which is a telling sign.
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It's absurd that x-men 3 cost 210 million. It was a short movie barley over 90 minutes and it didn't seem to have that much that stood out effects or set wise.
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I said it before, but the production schedule was so short and rushed that I have no doubt that almost every penny was spent on union overtime costs. They have pretty crazy pay terms related to scheduling, so if they were working in what the union considers overtime (and I'm positive they were), a lot of crew members were paid out a lot of money. Also, factor in the costs of replacing crew from Vaughan's initial group, all of whom were paid for the time spent on pre-production.
Poorly planned, poorly executed sequel.
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I put a lot of blame on the studio's bitterness over Singer doing Superman as well. Cyclops was killed just out of spite of him working with Singer on Returns. The actor wasn't even supposed to be in it at all due to this dumb petty reason and he had to apparently beg to get at least some screen time.
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Tim Rothman hates the X-Men franchise
With the way things are going with all the properties Fox has the rights to, you'd think Rothman hates Marvel.
The man is also apparently afraid of giants (Sentinels and Galactus), I wonder what happened to him as a small child...
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Tim Rothman hates the X-Men franchise
With the way things are going with all the properties Fox has the rights to, you'd think Rothman hates Marvel.
The man is also apparently afraid of giants (Sentinels and Galactus), I wonder what happened to him as a small child...
:lol "where did the sentinel touch you?"
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I heard about his hatred of giant robots. Odd guy.
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The novelization for Fantastic Four 2 is doing the rounds on AICN. It sounds awful. I think a lot of people were really hoping Spider-Man 3 would be the hyped trainwreck of the summer, but I think that honor is going to go to Fantastic Four 2.
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The novelization for Fantastic Four 2 is doing the rounds on AICN. It sounds awful. I think a lot of people were really hoping Spider-Man 3 would be the hyped trainwreck of the summer, but I think that honor is going to go to Fantastic Four 2.
I skimmed the novel at borders this weekend(I am a spoiler whore), it was terrible but I expected as much.
The novelization of Superman Returns was evil, it cut out superbaby to keep it a secret.
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My friend just called me, with his review of Spider-Man 3. I really trust his opinion more than anyone else, and he's done reviews for all of the geek film sites.
He says that despite the villains, that they managed to really resolve everything by the end and the climax is amazing. He said there's a weird interruption by newscasters, which he thought was kind of "meh", but the climax is so off the wall - you won't care. He says there's too many characters running around, like the "blonde chick" (he's referring to Gwen) and that Cromwell got no screen time. He also said there's a musical number in there that I'll find hysterical, but he's not sure how it'll play with your average crowd. Overall, he really, really liked it - one of the better popcorn flicks he's seen in the past two summers, but that it is not as good as Spider-Man 2. Says this is like the original, where if you want to pick it apart, you can.
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Doing Spidey 3 and 4 back to back would have been the best route. Venom should have had a whole movie devoted to him instead of a (possible?) lead in.
The amount of money it took to make this movie, it seems like Spidey 3 is actually two movies in one :lol
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The novelization for Fantastic Four 2 is doing the rounds on AICN. It sounds awful. I think a lot of people were really hoping Spider-Man 3 would be the hyped trainwreck of the summer, but I think that honor is going to go to Fantastic Four 2.
I skimmed the novel at borders this weekend(I am a spoiler whore), it was terrible but I expected as much.
The novelization of Superman Returns was evil, it cut out superbaby to keep it a secret.
The Borders near Arborland?
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The novelization for Fantastic Four 2 is doing the rounds on AICN. It sounds awful. I think a lot of people were really hoping Spider-Man 3 would be the hyped trainwreck of the summer, but I think that honor is going to go to Fantastic Four 2.
I skimmed the novel at borders this weekend(I am a spoiler whore), it was terrible but I expected as much.
The novelization of Superman Returns was evil, it cut out superbaby to keep it a secret.
The Borders near Arborland?
Downtown Ann Arbor borders.
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The novelization for Fantastic Four 2 is doing the rounds on AICN. It sounds awful. I think a lot of people were really hoping Spider-Man 3 would be the hyped trainwreck of the summer, but I think that honor is going to go to Fantastic Four 2.
I skimmed the novel at borders this weekend(I am a spoiler whore), it was terrible but I expected as much.
The novelization of Superman Returns was evil, it cut out superbaby to keep it a secret.
The Borders near Arborland?
Downtown Ann Arbor borders.
Near Starbucks right?
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The novelization for Fantastic Four 2 is doing the rounds on AICN. It sounds awful. I think a lot of people were really hoping Spider-Man 3 would be the hyped trainwreck of the summer, but I think that honor is going to go to Fantastic Four 2.
I skimmed the novel at borders this weekend(I am a spoiler whore), it was terrible but I expected as much.
The novelization of Superman Returns was evil, it cut out superbaby to keep it a secret.
The Borders near Arborland?
Downtown Ann Arbor borders.
Near Starbucks right?
I believe there is one by it, its not arborland though, thats a different borders
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Oh ok. I just go to the Borders in Arborland. There's also a Barns and Noble that's on Washtenaw also
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Oh ok. I just go to the Borders in Arborland. There's also a Barns and Noble that's on Washtenaw also
I go there sometimes
why dont you go to downtown ann arbor? it's the best part of ann arbor
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Oh ok. I just go to the Borders in Arborland. There's also a Barns and Noble that's on Washtenaw also
I go there sometimes
why dont you go to downtown ann arbor? it's the best part of ann arbor
Haven't been down there since I was meeting with UM grad students from CRECH. A and a half ago or so
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Take it to PMs. I cant tolerate this barely restrained sexual tension between you faygeles.
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:rofl
White Man has got the score right. When Cheebs and PD meetup its going to be hot, raunchy man sex throughout the night.
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The novelization for Fantastic Four 2 is doing the rounds on AICN. It sounds awful. I think a lot of people were really hoping Spider-Man 3 would be the hyped trainwreck of the summer, but I think that honor is going to go to Fantastic Four 2.
Which is sad.
I hate when movies have AWESOME trailers and then they end up being mediocre. A great example of this is Resident Evil: Apocalypse. It's probably one of my favorite film trailers of all time.
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The novelization for Fantastic Four 2 is doing the rounds on AICN. It sounds awful. I think a lot of people were really hoping Spider-Man 3 would be the hyped trainwreck of the summer, but I think that honor is going to go to Fantastic Four 2.
Which is sad.
I hate when movies have AWESOME trailers and then they end up being mediocre. A great example of this is Resident Evil: Apocalypse. It's probably one of my favorite film trailers of all time.
fantastic four 2 had a bad trailer
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S-M3 has had bad trailers. Masterpiece confirmed?
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S-M3 has had bad trailers. Masterpiece confirmed?
Hopefully.
I've taken so much shit with my offline friends for not liking the trailers, but none of them are spectacular. The last one was good, but the trailer to S-M2 keeps entering my mind. You know, the one where Peter dives and knocks Mary Jane out of the way of a crashing car. That basically had me pumped for the second installment alone. The best part of it was that my expectations were fulfilled.
That is one reason I've always been uneasy about this film. The ridiculous rumors and the large amount of rumors didn't help either. I'm glad, however, that it's getting some good reviews, and after watching Spider-Man 2.1, I'm ready to see this third film hopefully wrap up the franchise (or at least Raimi's contribution to it)
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S-M2 has one of my all-time favorite trailers. The editing, the structure, and the music choices are just perfect. Ending with Harry pulling the mask off was a great tease. I was convinced it wasnt gonna be Pete under the mask. How wrong I was. The trailer (s, since they've released like 20 compared to S-M2's single teaser and trailer) for S-M3 are downright sloppy by comparison. Cant remember S-M1's trailer for the life of me, so it was probably pretty generic.
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S-M2 has one of my all-time favorite trailers. The editing, the structure, and the music choices are just perfect. Ending with Harry pulling the mask off was a great tease. I was convinced it wasnt gonna be Pete under the mask. How wrong I was. The trailer (s, since they've released like 20 compared to S-M2's single teaser and trailer) for S-M3 are downright sloppy by comparison. Cant remember S-M1's trailer for the life of me, so it was probably pretty generic.
Yeah, S-M1 had a pretty generic one, if I remember correctly.
Still, even with all of the crap S-M3 has thrown at us, the Spider-Man (and hopefully Batman Begins, it got off to a great start) franchises are great examples on how to do comic book movies,
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S-M2 has one of my all-time favorite trailers. The editing, the structure, and the music choices are just perfect. Ending with Harry pulling the mask off was a great tease. I was convinced it wasnt gonna be Pete under the mask. How wrong I was. The trailer (s, since they've released like 20 compared to S-M2's single teaser and trailer) for S-M3 are downright sloppy by comparison. Cant remember S-M1's trailer for the life of me, so it was probably pretty generic.
Yeah, S-M1 had a pretty generic one, if I remember correctly.
Still, even with all of the crap S-M3 has thrown at us, the Spider-Man (and hopefully Batman Begins, it got off to a great start) franchises are great examples on how to do comic book movies,
Batman will be fine. Nolan has been very consistent in his films.
And unlike most he had plans laid out for 2 and 3 in plot and bad guys since before Begins came out
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S-M2 has one of my all-time favorite trailers. The editing, the structure, and the music choices are just perfect. Ending with Harry pulling the mask off was a great tease. I was convinced it wasnt gonna be Pete under the mask. How wrong I was. The trailer (s, since they've released like 20 compared to S-M2's single teaser and trailer) for S-M3 are downright sloppy by comparison. Cant remember S-M1's trailer for the life of me, so it was probably pretty generic.
Yeah, S-M1 had a pretty generic one, if I remember correctly.
Still, even with all of the crap S-M3 has thrown at us, the Spider-Man (and hopefully Batman Begins, it got off to a great start) franchises are great examples on how to do comic book movies,
Batman will be fine. Nolan has been very consistent in his films.
And unlike most he had plans laid out for 2 and 3 in plot and bad guys since before Begins came out
Yes, I'm sure it will be, I just can't use it as an example yet because only one film is out.
I can't wait for the Dark Knight.
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The Spider-Man 1 teaser is an awesome trailer.
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The Spider-Man 1 teaser is an awesome trailer.
Then maybe I'm wrong.
Someone should link me to it.
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The original teaser with the World Trade Center was rather bad
The Spiderman 2 trailer is one of the best trailers I've seen
[youtube=425,350]lxz4n2BxyUo[/youtube]
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[youtube=425,350]rMBlZIOzgJI[/youtube]
What the hell is bad about it, PD?
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[youtube=425,350]rMBlZIOzgJI[/youtube]
What the hell is bad about it, PD?
Luckily I realize you're joking.
The is so bad it looks like a commercial until the helicopter gets snagged. I seriously expected the Afflac duck to run across the floor or something. The music is bad, everything looks cheap and sounds phoned in. Overall it's like a teaser for a Die Hard TV series, coming soon to UPN!
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Dude, it's a fucking teaser trailer from a year before the movie came out. It does what it does successfully, although it should've ended with the helicopter stuck in the web, faded right to "Next Summer" and not shown spider-man at all. If they hadn't visually put Spider-Man in it, or mentioned him, it would've been the ultimate teaser.
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It was pretty subpar all around. I've seen better teasers
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It was pretty subpar all around. I've seen better teasers
Maybe. As I said, it's not above criticism, but if it had ended with the helicopter stuck in the web, not shown Spidey, and cut right to NEXT SUMMER, it would've been awesome.
Anyway, your taste is absolute shit.
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You don't even like the Spidey movies so this is quite unconvincing.
Yes, the teaser showed you all you "needed" to see, but that doesn't automatically make it a good teaser. In fact it's one of the worst ones I've ever seen. How many blockbuster movies get such cheap, thrown together teasers?
[youtube=425,350]V5aSmVJIj20[/youtube]
[youtube=425,350]z5DMCd7hv1w[/youtube]
This is one of the best teasers I've ever seen - thoughts on the final movie aside
[youtube=425,350]SzWZTC-jovo[/youtube]
Shows you all you need to know despite some meh production.
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Star Wars prequels had oddly good trailers
[youtube=425,350]tMpJ6W2WjHo[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMpJ6W2WjHo
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I thought the teaser for Phantom Menace was amazing
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Yes, PD, I don't even like the Spider-Man movies, but notice I will give them credit when they do a good trailer. I can like a trailer and not like a movie, you know.
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Yes, PD, I don't even like the Spider-Man movies, but notice I will give them credit when they do a good trailer. I can like a trailer and not like a movie, you know.
What about the Superman Returns teaser? :p
This will always be the best Star Wars trailer
[youtube=425,350]lS1M-wwlNi4[/youtube]
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The SR teaser was pretty good.
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The SR teaser was pretty good.
Well it was entirely marlon brando with john williams background score. Hard to mess up
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The SR teaser was pretty good.
Well it was entirely marlon brando with john williams background score. Hard to mess up
Yeah, that's why I hesitate to call it great. It was pretty much 75% assets from the original movie. it was still well done.
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It was good, just like the final product :bow
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As time goes on and I'm more removed from my midnight screening, I really hate Superman Returns more and more.
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I remember coming out of the theater and saying to my brother "ok, that was better than Batman Begins". I'm ashamed :-\
While it's definitely a solid movie (8.5./10) it's not better than Batman Begins. I'd say it's better than the first Spiderman movie - but I haven't seen Spidey 1 in some time
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It's not better than Roger Corman's Fantastic Four.
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Well I certainly wouldn't know because I refuse to see F4
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I'm not talking about the one directed by Tim Story w/ Jessica Alba - I'm talking the direct-to-home-video abomination not seen by man's eyes.
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I'm not talking about the one directed by Tim Story w/ Jessica Alba - I'm talking the direct-to-home-video abomination not seen by man's eyes.
I saw it. It was awesome. And Willco you'll be there front and center for "The Man of Steel" and you know it!
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People who hate on SR make me laugh. All the arguments are very childish. bubububu where's the action mommy wheres the bad guys waaaaaahhhh
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People who hate on SR make me laugh. All the arguments are very childish. bubububu where's the action mommy wheres the bad guys waaaaaahhhh
Solo says its under-rated and gave it like an 8/10 I believe. I agree with it. It's a under-rated film.
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hold up. if you like superman returns i will never, ever take your opinion on movies seriously again. it was horribly paced, horribly written, horribly acted big-budget dross.
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Superman Returns wasn't true in spirit to the comic book or previous movies. To make things worse, it was leisurely paced. It had very little dialogue, too, which is okay on occasion, but SR had no justification. It was also a mess. It had scenes that really didn't make much sense, contextually.
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It's not a great movie. I would not put it in my top 10 super hero films ever list or anything but its no batman forever, batman & robin, or fantastic four type of stuff. People treating it like its the worst super hero movie ever and such are absurd.
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It's pretty awful. It's long and about nothing. It's boring, some of the acting is crap, the storyline is all rehashed and cobbled together from the Reeves films. And it has some of the biggest plot holes I've ever seen in a comic book film and that's saying something. Its mere existence makes the world a worse place for our children to live in
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It's not a great movie. I would not put it in my top 10 super hero films ever list or anything but its no batman forever, batman & robin, or fantastic four type of stuff. People treating it like its the worst super hero movie ever and such are absurd.
I agree.
I haven't seen it since the first day at the theater. I'll have to rent it
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Meh, it's still not great but it doesn't deserve to be kicked around like a fantastic four. I havent seen it since I saw it in imax, I got it in that big 16 disk superman set but have never watched it yet.
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Fantastic Four > Superman Returns. At least Fantastic Four was interesting to watch while you were watching it. Superman Returns, you knew you were in the grips of tedium while watching it. I saw it for free, and I still feel ripped off.
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i enjoyed fantastic four quite a bit more despite its gross silliness and WB-grade acting. superman returns was turgid cinematographically and had one of the worst and most meandering superhero scripts (what the fuck was up with parker posey's character and the dog subplot??) i'd ever been subjected to. it wasted the talents of kevin spacey and parker posey, and is right down there with batman and robin.
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For once, I side with TVC 15 - while banal and filmed as if it were made-for-TV, the Fantastic Four movie was better than Superman Returns. At least I laughed at it a few times, which is more emotion than I ever shared with Superman Returns.
Where he came from, he should go back.
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Film after film, I am convinced that Kevin Spacey is actually not a great actor. Parker Posey though <3 I kinda dug her part but I have a sort of thing for her.
But the whole Superman returning to earth thing. . .I understand it was a plot conceit, but they never even really explain why he left in the first place. Fuck, we're not even sure when he left. Some of the events of the second movie apparently happened, but not all of them. So without knowing WHEN he left, it's impossible to understand WHY he left, and thus his whole "returning" just feels like a lame, unexplained plot device.
And the Supie Stalker bit is absolutely embarassing. Fuck, the whole Emo Superman thing is just so wrong that I doubt the writers really had much experience with the comics or previous movies.
And the return to Smallville is totally pointless. Yes, we get a little emotional moment with Supes and his mom, but it did absolutely nothing to serve the movie's plot. When a movie is as long as SR, fat needs to be trimmed, and that Smallville sequence was totally, totally fat.
EDIT: Yeah, the airplane sequence is cool. The only good part of the movie, really.
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eh, i thought spacey was good in the usual suspects and american beauty. hell, i even thought he was good in matchstick men, a movie i hated. i know you hate american beauty because it was a by-the-numbers and largely neutered oscar social critique film -- and i don't disagree -- but i thought it had really good performances all around.
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Yeah, that sequence is good, but the film is like a billion hours long and with no dialogue.
Lex Luthor's plot was distinguished mentally-challenged. How can he be an evil criminal mastermind whose genius talents are so amazing and come up with a piece of shit idea like that?
I KNOW I WILL CHURN TEH EARF INTO A RADIOACTIVE ROCK EVERYONE WILL WANT TO MUV HERE DUR
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eh, i thought spacey was good in the usual suspects and american beauty. i know you hate american beauty because it was a by-the-numbers and largely neutered oscar social critique film -- and i don't disagree -- but i thought it had really good performances all around.
He nailed the Usual Suspects, Seven, Swimming with Sharks, Glengarry Glen Ross. . .but everything post TUS has been bad.
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I always liked the Spidey 1 WTC teaser, it was pretty darn cool. Damn you, 9/11! But nothing touches Spidey 2's. I guess the better movies get the better trailers, or something.
For the record, I enjoyed FF on a "its been a long day, Im tired, I wanna watch some dumb superheroe action/Alba's superanus" level myself. Its by no means the worst superhero movie, not by a long shot.
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oooh, forgot about GGGR. he rocked that, but he always rocks when he portrays a wibbling, spineless schleb with a dark side. he's been picking a lot of "misunderstood man of the family" parts, which almost never challenge any actor and are usually part of some godawful disposable heartwarming seasonal flick.
oh, he was awesome in a fish called wanda, of course, even if that movie is overquoted by chunky college freshman girls.
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I always liked the Spidey 1 WTC teaser, it was pretty darn cool. Damn you, 9/11! But nothing touches Spidey 2's. I guess the better movies get the better trailers, or something.
For the record, I enjoyed FF on a "its been a long day, Im tired, I wanna watch some dumb superheroe action/Alba's superanus" level myself. Its by no means the worst superhero movie, not by a long shot.
Well duh. It's better than Batman & Robin, Daredevil, Ghost Rider...etc by default
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Superman hanging out Lois' home and trying to break up her pseudo-marriage was fucking creepy and sick. I hope Richard White kicks his ass in a sequel with a kryptonite pimp ring.
Ghost Rider is on the same level as Fantastic Four, Cheebs. Easily better than Daredevil and Batman & Robin.
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lol I havent seen it, I am just assuming.
It still boggles the mind how well ghost rider did box office wise. F4 has a 20 min extended verision dvd out in June, I am curious if its any good.
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Did Raimi actually shoot the WTC trailer? Its TOTALLY different in style and tone to the actually S-M movies.
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PD movie stuff makes me wish Shake was back.
Shake is convinced that Grindhouse is not a disappointment to the Weinstein's and that if RR wants to do a sequel that it will easily be greenlit.
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PD movie stuff makes me wish Shake was back.
Shake is convinced that Grindhouse is not a disappointment to the Weinstein's and that if RR wants to do a sequel that it will easily be greenlit.
Holy shit, it cost ~70 million and only made 23? That's a BIG BIG BOMBA. I'm sure it will do gangbusters on DVD, but even if it does, I highly doubt they'll make their budget back.
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yeah, Grindhouse est bomba. Too bad; Deathproof sounded like the first decent Tarantino movie since Jackie Brown.
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Grindhouse will never see a sequel. And as much as I loved the shit out of it, there shouldnt be a sequel. Let QT work on standalone shit, and let RR keep making movies for $100 in 5 days. That way QT gets sole billing, and I can ignore RR's work outside Sin City 2/3.
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Grindhouse also had the biggest ad budget of any weinstein film in the companys short history. In total it easily probably cost 100 million.
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I just want DP on DVD, then as far as Im concerned, QT and RR can get on with their lives.
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I will buy DP and not buy Planet Terror