THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Human Snorenado on May 12, 2007, 03:08:55 PM

Title: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 12, 2007, 03:08:55 PM
We report, you decide!
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 03:10:34 PM
I don't deny evolution in full. It would be foolish to look at things such as the adaption of bugs to poison sprays and suggest otherwise.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: captainbiotch on May 12, 2007, 03:10:47 PM
Faith is a fucking disease.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Cyanista on May 12, 2007, 03:11:43 PM
Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 12, 2007, 03:12:29 PM
Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

:-*

But that's pretty much a perfect description of our young Michelle.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:12:53 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: G The Resurrected on May 12, 2007, 03:14:05 PM
Evolution rocks, when do I get super powers though?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Cyanista on May 12, 2007, 03:15:47 PM
It always seemed to me like christians are fundamentally broken.  They profess that everything is in god's plan, and people can't KNOW god's plan, but. . .

It's such a stretch to them to believe maybe god started evolution?  Because it wasn't written specifically in the bible?  What?  Logic?  distinguished mentally-challenged fellows MEET LOGIC PLS.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:16:03 PM
Evolution rocks, when do I get super powers though?

It does not rock at all. Do you think it'll "rock" when we have ants 1000 feet tall?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:16:19 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.
Define "God."

I've been brushing up on the subject. I know enough about it to recognize the simplicity of it all. Something that's accumulated so much evidence in such a short period of time is, in my eyes, undeniable.

On a sidenote, what's with this new trend of saying organisms such as bacterial flagellum disprove evolution? Something about how something so complex cannot be supported by evolution. But there's plenty of other equally complicated things that can be explained by evolution. Why do people claim this can't?

Here: http://www.allaboutscience.org/darwins-theory-of-evolution-video.htm is what I'm talking about. That video left me unsatisfied and confused. Not enough information. Help.

Also, can someone please answer this (http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=8029.msg208487#msg208487)?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: $till LegendaryU2K on May 12, 2007, 03:17:14 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

I do not believe or follow evolution, and neither do i respect some scientist. I think people can believe what they like, and all because someone doesnt believe what you believe in, doesnt make them stupid. So please do not reject someone because of thier belief.

Peace and love one another :)
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:17:44 PM
What kind of question is,"Define God"?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 12, 2007, 03:18:03 PM
I can't wait for in 1000 years when they discover that evolution isn't right and they find out the change is caused by gods will not natural adaption to environment.  They will all make fun of us in future history text books. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I voted Cave man option.
[close]
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:18:08 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

What the fuck?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:18:57 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

I do not believe or follow evolution, and neither do i respect some scientist. I think people can believe what they like, and all because someone doesnt believe what you believe in, doesnt make them stupid. So please do not reject someone because of thier belief.

Peace and love one another :)
So you take the entire Bible in it's entirety as truth? You don't believe Genesis to be allegory? You follow it's every word? Live by the ten commandments?

Have you been properly educated on any alternative methods? Or are you comfortable enough in your beliefs that you feel no need to research anything else? I am amazed by people who can discount something they don't even have a complete understanding in.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: $till LegendaryU2K on May 12, 2007, 03:19:38 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

What the fuck?

Do you not understand?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Cyanista on May 12, 2007, 03:19:55 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

I do not believe or follow evolution, and neither do i respect some scientist. I think people can believe what they like, and all because someone doesnt believe what you believe in, doesnt make them stupid. So please do not reject someone because of thier belief.

Peace and love one another :)

omg someone's mad I didn't capitalize god.   :lol  Nice 15th post.  Peace and love to you, too, monkey.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Catz on May 12, 2007, 03:20:39 PM
Caveman option.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:20:48 PM
What kind of question is,"Define God"?
Uhh. Just what it sounds like. God in the sense of traditional religion? Or an anonymous, conscious creator that we know nothing about? Christian God? Islam God? Or what? If you believe evolution wholeheartedly, I fail to see how you can still believe there is a God that is the one presented in our man-made religions.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 03:21:12 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

I do not believe or follow evolution, and neither do i respect some scientist. I think people can believe what they like, and all because someone doesnt believe what you believe in, doesnt make them stupid. So please do not reject someone because of thier belief.

Peace and love one another :)
So you take the entire Bible in it's entirety as truth? You don't believe Genesis to be allegory? You follow it's every word? Live by the ten commandments?

Have you been properly educated on any alternative methods? Or are you comfortable enough in your beliefs that you feel no need to research anything else? I am amazed by people who can discount something they don't even have a complete understanding in.

There is a difference between believing in the bible literally and following the Ten Commandments though. This is a difference many people don't seem to understand, and it was best illistrated in that West Wing clip am nintenho posted, where the president suggested that this woman should not work on the Sabbath, stone her brother, etc.

The question here is "who were the Ten Commandments given to", and this is something people who don't read the bible don't understand. So why use it as a debate point?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:22:32 PM
What kind of question is,"Define God"?
Uhh. Just what it sounds like. God in the sense of traditional religion? Or an anonymouse, conscious creator that we know nothing about? Christian God? Islam God? Or what? If you believe evolution wholeheartedly, I fail to see how you can still believe there is a God that is the one presented in our man-made religions.

How is that hard to understand at all? Also, it shouldn't matter what monotheistic god I'm talking about because they're all so similar. How is it hard to understand that some people believe that God created the bare essentials and everything evolved from that? I mean, you're just as bad as the idiots who completely discount evolution if you are unable to understand that.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:23:05 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

I do not believe or follow evolution, and neither do i respect some scientist. I think people can believe what they like, and all because someone doesnt believe what you believe in, doesnt make them stupid. So please do not reject someone because of thier belief.

Peace and love one another :)
So you take the entire Bible in it's entirety as truth? You don't believe Genesis to be allegory? You follow it's every word? Live by the ten commandments?

Have you been properly educated on any alternative methods? Or are you comfortable enough in your beliefs that you feel no need to research anything else? I am amazed by people who can discount something they don't even have a complete understanding in.

There is a difference between believing in the bible literally and following the Ten Commandments though. This is a difference many people don't seem to understand, and it was best illistrated in that West Wing clip am nintenho posted, where the president suggested that this woman should not work on the Sabbath, stone her brother, etc.

The question here is "who were the Ten Commandments given to", and this is something people who don't read the bible don't understand. So why use it as a debate point?
So how can you determine which portions of the Bible are false and which are true? Which are to be lived by and followed, and which are to be disregarded either as myth or allegory? A fairy tale that teaches morals. I can't put my faith in a 2000 year old book that employs moral absolutes.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Cyanista on May 12, 2007, 03:23:20 PM
They were given to the jews.  Moses, specifically.  I read the bible cover to cover, actually.  Really boring work of fiction, overall.  Lots of bloodshed and fantasy, but lacking that human element.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: captainbiotch on May 12, 2007, 03:24:11 PM
It always seemed to me like christians are fundamentally broken.  They profess that everything is in god's plan, and people can't KNOW god's plan, but. . .

It's such a stretch to them to believe maybe god started evolution?  Because it wasn't written specifically in the bible?  What?  Logic?  distinguished mentally-challenged fellows MEET LOGIC PLS.

The whole point is they can escape reality and rely on a book to tell them everything.  THEY DONT WANT TEH LOGICZ.  Who needs to think when you can just say NO I DON'T BELIEVE.  As if evolution is a belief.  They think everything is a belief and man can't understand reality.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: $till LegendaryU2K on May 12, 2007, 03:24:37 PM
So you take the entire Bible in it's entirety as truth?

Yes, nothing has been change, GOD's word stands eternally.

You don't believe Genesis to be allegory?
You follow it's every word? Live by the ten commandments?

I do my best, more then you know. Not to get into any details, but when you see me and know about my life, you will know. Nobody is perfect, rather we are imperfect human beings, but we can do our best and continue to do so.

Have you been properly educated on any alternative methods? Or are you comfortable enough in your beliefs that you feel no need to research anything else? I am amazed by people who can discount something they don't even have a complete understanding in.

I'm very very closed minded, thus i dont pay any attention to some parts of scientist work or evolution. Everything i need to know, is located in the bible, period.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:25:21 PM
What kind of question is,"Define God"?
Uhh. Just what it sounds like. God in the sense of traditional religion? Or an anonymouse, conscious creator that we know nothing about? Christian God? Islam God? Or what? If you believe evolution wholeheartedly, I fail to see how you can still believe there is a God that is the one presented in our man-made religions.

How is that hard to understand at all? Also, it shouldn't matter what monotheistic god I'm talking about because they're all so similar. How is it hard to understand that some people believe that God created the bare essentials and everything evolved from that? I mean, you're just as bad as the idiots who completely discount evolution if you are unable to understand that.
I don't understand how you can accept Christianity yet at the same time support evolution. You're saying Genesis was all complete horseshit? God didn't make earth in 7 days, women weren't made from Adam's spare rib, and all that? In my eyes all people like you are doing is modifying your beliefs so they still can work with whatever metaphysical and scientific advances and discoveries we have made. You can only ad hoc so much.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Cyanista on May 12, 2007, 03:25:35 PM
Mhm, it's why I choose science.  Science is about at least looking for answers, while organized religion. . well, they pretty much stopped looking for answers thousands of years ago. 
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:26:39 PM
What kind of question is,"Define God"?
Uhh. Just what it sounds like. God in the sense of traditional religion? Or an anonymouse, conscious creator that we know nothing about? Christian God? Islam God? Or what? If you believe evolution wholeheartedly, I fail to see how you can still believe there is a God that is the one presented in our man-made religions.

How is that hard to understand at all? Also, it shouldn't matter what monotheistic god I'm talking about because they're all so similar. How is it hard to understand that some people believe that God created the bare essentials and everything evolved from that? I mean, you're just as bad as the idiots who completely discount evolution if you are unable to understand that.
I don't understand how you can accept Christianity yet at the same time support evolution. You're saying Genesis was all complete horseshit? God didn't make earth in 7 days, women weren't made from Adam's spare rib, and all that? In my eyes all people like you are doing is modifying your beliefs so they still can work with whatever metaphysical and scientific advances and discoveries we have made. You can only ad hoc so much.

Or maybe it's beacuse there's enough evidence to support that evolution and the events in the bible were true?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:26:50 PM
I'm very very closed minded, thus i dont pay any attention to some parts of scientist work or evolution. Everything i need to know, is located in the bible, period.
Yeah, you pretty much ruined it here. No sane person would openly admit that their close mindedness is the reason they're ignorant enough to not educate themselves. Welcome to ignore my joke account friend.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: $till LegendaryU2K on May 12, 2007, 03:26:57 PM
The question here is "who were the Ten Commandments given to", and this is something people who don't read the bible don't understand. So why use it as a debate point?

What sort of question is this? LOL , the Ten commandments is for all of us.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: BlueTsunami on May 12, 2007, 03:28:03 PM
U2K DAGREATEST :bow
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:28:55 PM
What kind of question is,"Define God"?
Uhh. Just what it sounds like. God in the sense of traditional religion? Or an anonymouse, conscious creator that we know nothing about? Christian God? Islam God? Or what? If you believe evolution wholeheartedly, I fail to see how you can still believe there is a God that is the one presented in our man-made religions.

How is that hard to understand at all? Also, it shouldn't matter what monotheistic god I'm talking about because they're all so similar. How is it hard to understand that some people believe that God created the bare essentials and everything evolved from that? I mean, you're just as bad as the idiots who completely discount evolution if you are unable to understand that.
I don't understand how you can accept Christianity yet at the same time support evolution. You're saying Genesis was all complete horseshit? God didn't make earth in 7 days, women weren't made from Adam's spare rib, and all that? In my eyes all people like you are doing is modifying your beliefs so they still can work with whatever metaphysical and scientific advances and discoveries we have made. You can only ad hoc so much.

Or maybe it's beacuse there's enough evidence to support that evolution and the events in the bible were true?
Uh, there is no evidence whatsoever supporting any religion. That's why it's called faith. The only thing you can say to support your religion is "Because the Bible says there is a God, we can assume it is truth as the Bible was inspired by God." And circular arguments are bullshit.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:29:24 PM
The question here is "who were the Ten Commandments given to", and this is something people who don't read the bible don't understand. So why use it as a debate point?

What sort of question is this? LOL , the Ten commandments is for all of us.
Maybe if you're living in biblical times.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:29:34 PM
I don't know what the dead sea scrolls and such are at all.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:30:14 PM
I don't know what the dead sea scrolls and such are at all.
*blink*
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: $till LegendaryU2K on May 12, 2007, 03:32:35 PM
U2K DAGREATEST

I was trying to come back to gaming age, but someone didnt want me back. If you notice in the brief time i did come back, i wasnt acting like i did before in the past, i wanted a second chance, but i guess the mods dont like u2k. Btw its U2K Tha Greate$t :)

Maybe if you're living in biblical times.

Well for us bible believers, we are still living in the bible times, just the later times.


Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:33:47 PM
Maybe if you're living in biblical times.

Well for us bible believers, we are still living in the bible times, just the later times.
So you believe in moral absolutism?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Error Macro on May 12, 2007, 03:35:56 PM
Die Religion... ist das Opium des Volkes.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: $till LegendaryU2K on May 12, 2007, 03:36:02 PM

So you believe in moral absolutism?

I'm not understanding, what is that? I never heard that term before
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 03:36:30 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

I do not believe or follow evolution, and neither do i respect some scientist. I think people can believe what they like, and all because someone doesnt believe what you believe in, doesnt make them stupid. So please do not reject someone because of thier belief.

Peace and love one another :)
So you take the entire Bible in it's entirety as truth? You don't believe Genesis to be allegory? You follow it's every word? Live by the ten commandments?

Have you been properly educated on any alternative methods? Or are you comfortable enough in your beliefs that you feel no need to research anything else? I am amazed by people who can discount something they don't even have a complete understanding in.

There is a difference between believing in the bible literally and following the Ten Commandments though. This is a difference many people don't seem to understand, and it was best illistrated in that West Wing clip am nintenho posted, where the president suggested that this woman should not work on the Sabbath, stone her brother, etc.

The question here is "who were the Ten Commandments given to", and this is something people who don't read the bible don't understand. So why use it as a debate point?
So how can you determine which portions of the Bible are false and which are true? Which are to be lived by and followed, and which are to be disregarded either as myth or allegory? A fairy tale that teaches morals. I can't put my faith in a 2000 year old book that employs moral absolutes.

I never said that part was "false", or that any part was false. At the heart the bible is simply God communicating with man. It spans thousands of years, and while the particular doctrine changes, the message stays the same. This is best illistrated by the idea of salvation. What is salvation? To Noah, salvation meant that he was to build an Ark. If I went out and built an Ark, would I be saved from inpending doom? Of course not; God did not tell me to build an Ark.

When God gave man his (hundreds) of commandments, who did he give them too? He gave them to the nation of Israel, according to the Bible. Does that mean that today the Jews should follow 900+ laws? No. Once again according to the Bible, Jesus came to forgive man, and fufill the law. Where once salvation was only through the law, it was now through Jesus. Many Christians seem to forget this (or ignore it), but Jesus didn't preach a heavenly message. He preached an early message: repent and be baptized, for the Kingdom is at hand. Jesus came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and he offered the Kingdom of Heaven, which was to be created on the earth; in other words, he promised the earth to the Jews.

We know what happened. But once again according to the Bible, God once again gave man another chance. This time all men, Jews and Gentiles - through grace. It is now through Jesus's death, burial, and ressurection (NOT his earthly ministry) that we are saved. Now, do I have to keep the Sabbath to be saved, or sacrifice goats and sheep? No, Jesus was the final sacrifice, and through him we are all saved.

Now some would ask "does that give us a license to sin, since we don't have to follow laws to get to heaven..." The answer is no. While nothing you do will ever seperate you from salvation once you believe, your behavior is more important in the process of being a living testament. Don't lie because it is wrong and against God's word, not because if you do omg you'll go to hell.

And that's where fundamentalists are dead wrong. They suggest that you can lose your salvation, or that certain people can't gain it. That's a lie.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:38:57 PM

So you believe in moral absolutism?

I'm not understanding, what is that? I never heard that term before
The belief that there are moral standards everyone in the world must follow, regardless of culture and the time period. That the rules set forth by the Bible must be lived by now and forever, completely unchanging with the human race.

Basically, do you still think we should stone rapists to death?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Powerslave on May 12, 2007, 03:40:38 PM
People who don't believe in it are distinguished mentally-challenged. Yeah then explain how the fuck I got this Raichu in my collection huh?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:45:09 PM
I believe in God, but I also believe in evolution if that makes any sense. I think that people who don't believe in evolution are idiots to be quite honest.

You cant believe in the Word of GOD and believe in false teacher at the same time. I believe in the word of GOD, meaning the bible and i believe in GOD, and i also believe in the Son of man, whom we callest Jesus Christ which is the Son of GOD.

I do not believe or follow evolution, and neither do i respect some scientist. I think people can believe what they like, and all because someone doesnt believe what you believe in, doesnt make them stupid. So please do not reject someone because of thier belief.

Peace and love one another :)
So you take the entire Bible in it's entirety as truth? You don't believe Genesis to be allegory? You follow it's every word? Live by the ten commandments?

Have you been properly educated on any alternative methods? Or are you comfortable enough in your beliefs that you feel no need to research anything else? I am amazed by people who can discount something they don't even have a complete understanding in.

There is a difference between believing in the bible literally and following the Ten Commandments though. This is a difference many people don't seem to understand, and it was best illistrated in that West Wing clip am nintenho posted, where the president suggested that this woman should not work on the Sabbath, stone her brother, etc.

The question here is "who were the Ten Commandments given to", and this is something people who don't read the bible don't understand. So why use it as a debate point?
So how can you determine which portions of the Bible are false and which are true? Which are to be lived by and followed, and which are to be disregarded either as myth or allegory? A fairy tale that teaches morals. I can't put my faith in a 2000 year old book that employs moral absolutes.

I never said that part was "false", or that any part was false. At the heart the bible is simply God communicating with man. It spans thousands of years, and while the particular doctrine changes, the message stays the same. This is best illistrated by the idea of salvation. What is salvation? To Noah, salvation meant that he was to build an Ark. If I went out and built an Ark, would I be saved from inpending doom? Of course not; God did not tell me to build an Ark.

When God gave man his (hundreds) of commandments, who did he give them too? He gave them to the nation of Israel, according to the Bible. Does that mean that today the Jews should follow 900+ laws? No. Once again according to the Bible, Jesus came to forgive man, and fufill the law. Where once salvation was only through the law, it was now through Jesus. Many Christians seem to forget this (or ignore it), but Jesus didn't preach a heavenly message. He preached an early message: repent and be baptized, for the Kingdom is at hand. Jesus came to the lost sheep of the house of Israel, and he offered the Kingdom of Heaven, which was to be created on the earth; in other words, he promised the earth to the Jews.

We know what happened. But once again according to the Bible, God once again gave man another chance. This time all men, Jews and Gentiles - through grace. It is now through Jesus's death, burial, and ressurection (NOT his earthly ministry) that we are saved. Now, do I have to keep the Sabbath to be saved, or sacrifice goats and sheep? No, Jesus was the final sacrifice, and through him we are all saved.

Now some would ask "does that give us a license to sin, since we don't have to follow laws to get to heaven..." The answer is no. While nothing you do will ever seperate you from salvation once you believe, your behavior is more important in the process of being a living testament. Don't lie because it is wrong and against God's word, not because if you do omg you'll go to hell.

And that's where fundamentalists are dead wrong. They suggest that you can lose your salvation, or that certain people can't gain it. That's a lie.
You're saying a whole lot of nothing and dancing around the issue. Basically, what you're saying is everyone is saved, regardless of their sins? Then what's the point of reading the Bible? Why go to church? Why even believe in God? From what you say, a guy could go out and kill 6 people, be shot by the police, and still end up in Heaven because Jesus died for his sins. Gee, that's entirely pointless.

What I want to know is what portions of the Bible you believe to be true. Do you really think there was a great flood? That Jesus really performed miracles? That we should follow what the Bible says to do, simply because it says so? I feel like I'm going in circles here. How do you determine what to follow? Don't give me that "It's all about how you interpret it" crap, because if that's the case then I interpret it as meaningless, outdated, and useless.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:47:27 PM
He's saying that everyone has the possibility of being saved.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Cyanista on May 12, 2007, 03:47:57 PM
Die Religion... ist das Opium des Volkes.
:heartbeat
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:48:43 PM
He's saying that everyone has the possibility of being saved.
No, he's saying we all are already saved.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:50:47 PM
Quote
What I want to know is what portions of the Bible you believe to be true. Do you really think there was a great flood? That Jesus really performed miracles? That we should follow what the Bible says to do, simply because it says so?

I believe in a higher power, but these days I'm less than keen on organized religion. I believe there was a great flood. Jesus may not have done miracles, but other religions such as Islam and Judaism certainly suggest he was important person. I follow what the bible says, but what the bible says to do mainly consists of things that any decent human being would partake in. One of the exceptions I don't believe in is no sex before marriage, which I find to be outdated and bullcrap.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 03:52:39 PM
He's saying that everyone has the possibility of being saved.
No, he's saying we all are already saved.

No, he's not. He's saying that because of the final sacrifice, all people and not just Jews have the ability to become saved no matter what their past happens to be. This is rudimentary Christian knowledge. I don't understand how you get that interpretation. Either you're doing this to spite people who are religious or on accident, I don't know.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 03:54:16 PM
He's saying that everyone has the possibility of being saved.

Exactly. I don't think you even payed attention to the post at all, Mute. I said that salvation is through believing in Jesus's death, burial, and ressurection. The idea that Jesus died is simply history. The idea that he died for your sins, and believing this brings salvation...is indeed salvation.

So with your example of someone killing 6 people, if this person later accepted Jesus (IE believed that he dief for his sins, was buried, and ressurected) for his justification, then yea he's going to heaven. If Hitler didn't kill himself in his bunker, and instead believed this, he would go to heaven and his sins would be forgiven.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:54:25 PM
Quote
What I want to know is what portions of the Bible you believe to be true. Do you really think there was a great flood? That Jesus really performed miracles? That we should follow what the Bible says to do, simply because it says so?

I believe in a higher power, but these days I'm less than keen on organized religion. I believe there was a great flood. Jesus may not have done miracles, but other religions such as Islam and Judaism certainly suggest he was important person. I follow what the bible says, but what the bible says to do mainly consists of things that any decent human being would partake in. One of the exceptions I don't believe in is no sex before marriage, which I find to be outdated and bullcrap.
That right there is what bugs me. How can you do this? How can you say you believe it, but then say "Well, this part doesn't fit in my life, so I'm going to completely disregard it. However, it doesn't take away from the credibility of everything else I still do believe in." It feels like people pick and choose what they want to live their life like and then modify their beliefs to fit, making themselves happy by convincing themselves they're still Christian.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 03:57:01 PM
He's saying that everyone has the possibility of being saved.
No, he's saying we all are already saved.

No, he's not. He's saying that because of the final sacrifice, all people and not just Jews have the ability to become saved no matter what their past happens to be. This is wChristian knowledge. I don't understand how you get that interpretation. Either you're doing this to spite people who are religious or on accident, I don't know.

He's saying that everyone has the possibility of being saved.

Exactly. I don't think you even payed attention to the post at all, Mute. I said that salvation is through believing in Jesus's death, burial, and ressurection. The idea that Jesus died is simply history. The idea that he died for your sins, and believing this brings salvation...is indeed salvation.
Oh, okay. I'm sorry, I misunderstood that part.

Quote
So with your example of someone killing 6 people, if this person later accepted Jesus (IE believed that he dief for his sins, was buried, and ressurected) for his justification, then yea he's going to heaven. If Hitler didn't kill himself in his bunker, and instead believed this, he would go to heaven and his sins would be forgiven.
:rofl So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 04:02:33 PM
Quote
What I want to know is what portions of the Bible you believe to be true. Do you really think there was a great flood? That Jesus really performed miracles? That we should follow what the Bible says to do, simply because it says so?

I believe in a higher power, but these days I'm less than keen on organized religion. I believe there was a great flood. Jesus may not have done miracles, but other religions such as Islam and Judaism certainly suggest he was important person. I follow what the bible says, but what the bible says to do mainly consists of things that any decent human being would partake in. One of the exceptions I don't believe in is no sex before marriage, which I find to be outdated and bullcrap.
That right there is what bugs me. How can you do this? How can you say you believe it, but then say "Well, this part doesn't fit in my life, so I'm going to completely disregard it. However, it doesn't take away from the credibility of everything else I still do believe in." It feels like people pick and choose what they want to live their life like and then modify their beliefs to fit, making themselves happy by convincing themselves they're still Christian.

Because I believe in it does not mean it rules my life. There is a thing called choice.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 04:03:22 PM
Quote from: Mute
So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.

What? It's based on grace. Salvation is through one area, and that's Jesus Christ. How much you tithe, follow the law, or "repent" has nothing to do with getting saved. Likewise going out and murdering people has nothing to do with you not being saved. God forgives all as long as you follow his way of salvation, it's that simple. Why is that a problem? I think it's comforting knowing there's nothing I can do to save myself through my own works, or damn myself through my own works - it was done for me more than 2,000 years ago
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Hollywood on May 12, 2007, 04:03:51 PM
Everyone has their own interpretations of things. I don't see why God didn't create the universe, and evolution still occured. Hell, a lot of people believe there's been a lot of genetic modification occuring to change creatures, be it divine or extraterrestrial. I've taken anthropology, I just find it hard to believe that over time mutation in genes, that occur completely randomly, overtakes the giant majority. It would seem that new mutated species would need a little help to survive from something.

As for the whole creationism thing - one of my high school teachers back in the day basically said that up to about the towel of babel or so, all the books early in the Bible were stories/parables to explain things - not meant as historical truth.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 04:05:14 PM
Quote
What I want to know is what portions of the Bible you believe to be true. Do you really think there was a great flood? That Jesus really performed miracles? That we should follow what the Bible says to do, simply because it says so?

I believe in a higher power, but these days I'm less than keen on organized religion. I believe there was a great flood. Jesus may not have done miracles, but other religions such as Islam and Judaism certainly suggest he was important person. I follow what the bible says, but what the bible says to do mainly consists of things that any decent human being would partake in. One of the exceptions I don't believe in is no sex before marriage, which I find to be outdated and bullcrap.
That right there is what bugs me. How can you do this? How can you say you believe it, but then say "Well, this part doesn't fit in my life, so I'm going to completely disregard it. However, it doesn't take away from the credibility of everything else I still do believe in." It feels like people pick and choose what they want to live their life like and then modify their beliefs to fit, making themselves happy by convincing themselves they're still Christian.

Because I believe in it does not mean it rules my life.
But it should. You can't half-way believe in something. Even if the Ten Commandments and whatever other rules to live by are considered nothing more than guidelines, and salvation really is based off nothing other than faith and the acceptance of Christ, you're still willingly defying the word of God.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 04:05:30 PM
He's saying that everyone has the possibility of being saved.

Exactly. I don't think you even payed attention to the post at all, Mute. I said that salvation is through believing in Jesus's death, burial, and ressurection. The idea that Jesus died is simply history. The idea that he died for your sins, and believing this brings salvation...is indeed salvation.

So with your example of someone killing 6 people, if this person later accepted Jesus (IE believed that he dief for his sins, was buried, and ressurected) for his justification, then yea he's going to heaven. If Hitler didn't kill himself in his bunker, and instead believed this, he would go to heaven and his sins would be forgiven.

This is simplifying the matter. Simply believing in Jesus' sacrifice will make you saved. If that was the case it would be an easy matter.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 04:08:10 PM
Quote from: Mute
So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.

What? It's based on grace. Salvation is through one area, and that's Jesus Christ. How much you tithe, follow the law, or "repent" has nothing to do with getting saved. Likewise going out and murdering people has nothing to do with you not being saved. God forgives all as long as you follow his way of salvation, it's that simple. Why is that a problem? I think it's comforting knowing there's nothing I can do to save myself through my own works, or damn myself through my own works - it was done for me more than 2,000 years ago
Because it's ludicrous. I cannot put my faith in a being that judges people based on their acceptance of an apparent fairy tale. The very idea that our creator would judge us based on belief and acceptance is, again, irrational, which would in turn make God irrational. And I don't believe an irrational being could govern our Universe.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: captainbiotch on May 12, 2007, 04:11:23 PM
There is absolutely no reason to believe in a god other than the fear of damnation after your death, or him sending down some ghosts after your heathen ass.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 04:11:48 PM
But it should. You can't half-way believe in something. Even if the Ten Commandments and whatever other rules to live by are considered nothing more than guidelines, and salvation really is based off nothing other than faith and the acceptance of Christ, you're still willingly defying the word of God.

And why should I? I already stated before I am pretty much less than keen on organized religion and that I believe that there's a higher power out there. Just because I believe in God does not mean I am a standard Christian.

Everyone defies the word of God. With your argument, I could say that all homosexuals cannot go to church or believe in God because their entire life style completely goes against what God asks in the Bible.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 04:14:30 PM
But it should. You can't half-way believe in something. Even if the Ten Commandments and whatever other rules to live by are considered nothing more than guidelines, and salvation really is based off nothing other than faith and the acceptance of Christ, you're still willingly defying the word of God.

And why should I? I already stated before I am pretty much less than keen on organized religion and that I believe that there's a higher power out there. Just because I believe in God does not mean I am a standard Christian.
Then you're not religious. I leave the possibility of there being a creator, but there's not even a fraction of doubt in my mind that it (he?) is nothing like that presented in any religion, and is unknown to man. Our religions are unsatisfying, both logically and otherwise. Which is why I'll remain agnostic.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 04:15:41 PM
I never said I was religious, but I'm not agnostic either.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 04:17:24 PM
I never said I was religious, but I'm not agnostic either.
I know, I'm just trying to make my point. But do you at least see where I stand? You can understand my viewpoint?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 04:18:25 PM
I understood it from the beginning. As long as you don't look down on me as a idiot who believe in irrational stuff your opinion is fine.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 04:20:49 PM
I understood it from the beginning. As long as you don't look down on me as a idiot who believe in irrational stuff your opinion is fine.
Oh no, I don't blame anyone for believing there is a chance of creation by a higher being (even if that in it's self is a bit hard to swallow, or explain). I just don't understand the halfway, ad hoc stance that western religion has taken on. But there is a huge difference between believing in a god and believing in the traditional God.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 04:22:13 PM
Perhaps science has to do with it? The split of beliefs. Plus, we aren't as hard on people as in other parts of the world.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 04:24:16 PM
I would hope that science would help people let go of their outdated faiths rather than simply modifying them so everything is all dandy and they can go on in life convinced that they're still religious. There's only so long the two can coexist.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 04:28:26 PM
Quote from: Mute
So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.

What? It's based on grace. Salvation is through one area, and that's Jesus Christ. How much you tithe, follow the law, or "repent" has nothing to do with getting saved. Likewise going out and murdering people has nothing to do with you not being saved. God forgives all as long as you follow his way of salvation, it's that simple. Why is that a problem? I think it's comforting knowing there's nothing I can do to save myself through my own works, or damn myself through my own works - it was done for me more than 2,000 years ago
Because it's ludicrous. I cannot put my faith in a being that judges people based on their acceptance of an apparent fairy tale. The very idea that our creator would judge us based on belief and acceptance is, again, irrational, which would in turn make God irrational. And I don't believe an irrational being could govern our Universe.

Now you're stretching things. It seems to me like you have a clear agenda here. Who are you to declare a higher being to be irrational in the first place, assuming one exists?

Judging doesn't mean salvation. The very reason God gave the commandments was to prove that man couldn't keep them. You can't save yourself. In other words, your deeds have nothing to do with salvation - Jesus's deeds have everything to do with it.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 04:30:06 PM
I would hope that science would help people let go of their outdated faiths rather than simply modifying them so everything is all dandy and they can go on in life convinced that they're still religious. There's only so long the two can coexist.

I still don't see the problem with believing in both at all.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 04:33:00 PM
Quote from: Mute
So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.

What? It's based on grace. Salvation is through one area, and that's Jesus Christ. How much you tithe, follow the law, or "repent" has nothing to do with getting saved. Likewise going out and murdering people has nothing to do with you not being saved. God forgives all as long as you follow his way of salvation, it's that simple. Why is that a problem? I think it's comforting knowing there's nothing I can do to save myself through my own works, or damn myself through my own works - it was done for me more than 2,000 years ago
Because it's ludicrous. I cannot put my faith in a being that judges people based on their acceptance of an apparent fairy tale. The very idea that our creator would judge us based on belief and acceptance is, again, irrational, which would in turn make God irrational. And I don't believe an irrational being could govern our Universe.

Now you're stretching things. It seems to me like you have a clear agenda here. Who are you to declare a higher being to be irrational in the first place, assuming one exists?
"Who are we to judge the ways of God?" Yeah, I've never heard that before.

Quote from: Mute
So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.

What? It's based on grace. Salvation is through one area, and that's Jesus Christ. How much you tithe, follow the law, or "repent" has nothing to do with getting saved. Likewise going out and murdering people has nothing to do with you not being saved. God forgives all as long as you follow his way of salvation, it's that simple. Why is that a problem? I think it's comforting knowing there's nothing I can do to save myself through my own works, or damn myself through my own works - it was done for me more than 2,000 years ago
Because it's ludicrous. I cannot put my faith in a being that judges people based on their acceptance of an apparent fairy tale. The very idea that our creator would judge us based on belief and acceptance is, again, irrational, which would in turn make God irrational. And I don't believe an irrational being could govern our Universe.
Judging doesn't mean salvation. The very reason God gave the commandments was to prove that man couldn't keep them. You can't save yourself. In other words, your deeds have nothing to do with salvation - Jesus's deeds have everything to do with it.
So, you're saying we're all a sick joke created to fail. Alrighty then.

I would hope that science would help people let go of their outdated faiths rather than simply modifying them so everything is all dandy and they can go on in life convinced that they're still religious. There's only so long the two can coexist.

I still don't see the problem with believing in both at all.
And I still don't see how anyone can believe in both. *shrug*
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 04:37:35 PM
I never suggested we were a "sick joke" created to fail. I'm quite the cynical contrarian, but come on dude.  ::)

Many people would like to believe they "deserve" to go to heaven over others based strictly on their works. It's basic human instint. The idea that god levels the playing ground and gives everyone an equal chance to attain salvation may make some feel not as important as they would if they knew salvation was attained through their own actions. I get that. But at the end of the day salvation isn't about you, or me. It's about Jesus Christ.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 04:44:46 PM
I never suggested we were a "sick joke" created to fail. I'm quite the cynical contrarian, but come on dude.  ::)

Many people would like to believe they "deserve" to go to heaven over others based strictly on their works. It's basic human instint. The idea that god levels the playing ground and gives everyone an equal chance to attain salvation may make some feel not as important as they would if they knew salvation was attained through their own actions. I get that. But at the end of the day salvation isn't about you, or me. It's about Jesus Christ.
But it's what you said nonetheless. In my eyes, creation of a species to purposely manipulate their existence and chances of survival is indeed a sick joke.

I don't feel I or anyone else "deserves" to go to heaven, but just like any other reward, it should be based off merit. Based off what kind of person you are, how strict you live by your morals, your actions in life. The idea that God gives everyone (even the worst, most perverted, disgusting, murderous people in the world) is in my eyes not fair at all. It's just a cheater's safety net. Someone's way of saying "Hey, you should follow the word of God and be a good person, but even if you don't, it's okay! All you really have to do is accept Christ!"

You're honestly telling me you'd support a God who views Stalin as much deserving to go to heaven as Ghandi, simply because of the acceptance of Christ? How does that seem logical or even sane in any way?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 12, 2007, 05:06:21 PM
Oh shit, I see that I need to start new poll that U2K Tha Lame$t has returned.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 05:07:39 PM
Oh shit, I see that I need to start new poll that U2K Tha Lame$t has returned.
Whose joke character is he?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 05:09:43 PM
Come on Pee Dee, don't ditch me now. At least clarify how you justify your stance.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 05:22:15 PM
Come on Pee Dee, don't ditch me now. At least clarify how you justify your stance.

I've clarified it, what else is there to say? The Bible makes it pretty clear that salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not one's own works. Stalin's salvation would be guarenteed just as much as Ghandi's, MLK's, or anyone elses if he accepted Christ as his savior.

Ever heard of Paul? He was responsible for the murder and imprisonment of many Jews, yet was chosen to be God's last apostle. It's grace.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 05:23:32 PM
Come on Pee Dee, don't ditch me now. At least clarify how you justify your stance.

I've clarified it, what else is there to say? The Bible makes it pretty clear that salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not one's own works. Stalin's salvation would be guarenteed just as much as Ghandi's, MLK's, or anyone elses if he accepted Christ as his savior.

Ever heard of Paul? He was responsible for the murder and imprisonment of many Jews, yet was chosen to be God's last apostle. It's grace.
Yes, I know. But how can you accept that?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 05:27:32 PM
What's wrong with accepting it? If people learn their lessons and become good people, yeah I don't care about their past either. None of my business.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 05:28:44 PM
What's not to accept? It's the easiest solution; I in now way would be capible of saving myself, or of keeping 900+ commandments. I'm not better than anyone else, so I'm not going to spend time on the merits (well, lack thereof) of Hitler's soul. At the end of the day he was still a sinner just like me, in need of salvation.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 12, 2007, 06:06:09 PM
Come on Pee Dee, don't ditch me now. At least clarify how you justify your stance.

I've clarified it, what else is there to say? The Bible makes it pretty clear that salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not one's own works. Stalin's salvation would be guarenteed just as much as Ghandi's, MLK's, or anyone elses if he accepted Christ as his savior.

Ever heard of Paul? He was responsible for the murder and imprisonment of many Jews, yet was chosen to be God's last apostle. It's grace.
Yes, I know. But how can you accept that?

Well, I thought we had long ago established that Michelle wasn't very intelligent. 
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: etiolate on May 12, 2007, 06:15:14 PM
Evolution isn't a problem as much as evolution without God is a problem.

Small evolutions are observable, it's the jumps that are hard to swallow. It's also the convenience that is ...too convenient.  As in the classic moth study, of the moths that were white and lived on trees in Pennsylvania, which their coloring blended into.  Then a mill was built nearby and caused the trees to turn black with soot, which made the moths stick out and thus lower their reproductive survivability.  This would have endangered the moths to predators and exposed their place of breeding, but an evolution saved them. Magically, some Moths evolve/mutate to be colored black to better match the soot. That's too intelligent for a random evolution for me. If it's random, why not pink or any other color? We have changed skin tones from thousands of years of regional sun exposure, but this is a much shortened time in front of a steel mill. This moth example is supposed to show evolution, which it does, but it made me question the randomness of it.  We don't believe in the whole Girafffe theory anymore, but this random lucky chance theory doesn't work here either.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Cyanista on May 12, 2007, 06:17:01 PM
There very well might be some sort of god.  There pretty much is evolution.  At this point it's just one more thing you can't explain. 
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 06:20:49 PM
 The lifespan of a moth is a few months. So over one human generation you can have 50 or so generations of moths. That's why a random mutation could spread quicker in moths than humans.

Pink and yellow would not give the moths any added benefit in that particular environment so the trait for pink color would not be selected for. YOU KNOW WHAT NATURAL SELECTION IS, RIGHT?

The old giraffe story was part of Lamarckism.


COME ON!
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 06:21:32 PM
There very well might be some sort of god.  There pretty much is evolution.  At this point it's just one more thing you can't explain. 

Then why make definitive statements on it?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 06:22:20 PM
There very well might be some sort of god.  There pretty much is evolution.  At this point it's just one more thing you can't explain. 

Then why make definitive statements on it?
Has she?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 06:25:16 PM
Quote
Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: etiolate on May 12, 2007, 06:25:20 PM
The lifespan of a moth is a few months. So over one human generation you can have 50 or so generations of moths. That's why a random mutation could spread quicker in moths than humans.

Pink and yellow would not give the moths any added benefit in that particular environment so the trait for pink color would not be selected for. YOU KNOW WHAT NATURAL SELECTION IS, RIGHT?

The old giraffe story was part of Lamarckism.


COME ON!

Natural selection would say these moths aren't to survive, but a random evolution is somehow the perfect evolution for them to survive.  Too convenient is all.  It could have been pink or blue, why black?

Also, anyone remember the name of the moth study?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: captainbiotch on May 12, 2007, 06:27:59 PM
Magic eh.  God came down and saved the moths?? :lol

There is always the possibility that there are recessive genes for coloration.  The little buggers get picked off when they don't blend in, but when they do they have that much greater chance of spreading their genes, making more little black moths.  Been known to happen.  No need for magic.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Cyanista on May 12, 2007, 06:30:54 PM
Quote
Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me

Mhm, and I'm going to believe it until you disprove it to me.  Yet. . if you showed me proof. . I would change my views.

Thus, nothing is absolute.  Do you see how this works?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 06:31:48 PM
Some of the moths already carried the dark allele, but it was only spread when the allele produced a phenotype that was beneficial to the species and the white allele was harmful. The white moths died out and the black allele spread throughout the population.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: etiolate on May 12, 2007, 06:33:58 PM
No, the white moths still survived, but just moved. I need to get the name and look it up.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 06:35:41 PM
No, the white moths still survived, but just moved. I need to get the name and look it up.
I meant that most of the white moths died out. You must be thinking of the peppered moth of Northern England.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: etiolate on May 12, 2007, 06:38:46 PM
I think thats it. Peppered sounds familiar.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: $till LegendaryU2K on May 12, 2007, 07:11:09 PM
Basically, do you still think we should stone rapists to death?

We are not suppose to put anyone to death, and i hope you know that somethings was change within the bible, not the word, rather by Jesus. Asking do i still think we should stone people to death, is like asking me do i still think we should do eye for an eye and we all know we are not suppose to do that anymore. Somethings we are not suppose to do anymore, thats cool.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 07:15:10 PM
What's wrong with accepting it? If people learn their lessons and become good people, yeah I don't care about their past either. None of my business.
Because

A. You can be a good person without religion
B. How the fuck is it fair to let people in to heaven if they are murderers? "Well, they killed 221 people on Earth, but since he accepted and believed in Jesus, it's all good."

I'm the only one that sees any problem in this at all?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: $till LegendaryU2K on May 12, 2007, 07:16:22 PM
 And like i said before, i really dont care what anyone believes in, its your life , your choice. I have love for everyone and i dont reject people and i am always there for everyone in this world, and despite what you believe in, i love you.

Always love one another, and be there for all people of this world. My only concern is , that people must do what they are suppose to do in life, i can only that everyone makes the right choice in life.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 12, 2007, 07:39:38 PM
U2K Tha Greate$t :bow :bow

Dreamcast 2009 :bow :bow
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: TVC15 on May 12, 2007, 07:46:05 PM
U2K Tha Greate$t :bow :bow

Dreamcast 2009 :bow :bow

CORNCAT APPROVES

(http://www.indarktrees.com/pics/corncat.gif)

Corncat proves evolution because cats didn't always eat corn.  F U GOD!
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 07:48:53 PM
What's wrong with accepting it? If people learn their lessons and become good people, yeah I don't care about their past either. None of my business.
Because

A. You can be a good person without religion
B. How the fuck is it fair to let people in to heaven if they are murderers? "Well, they killed 221 people on Earth, but since he accepted and believed in Jesus, it's all good."

I'm the only one that sees any problem in this at all?

I see a problem myself, but that's the way it is. Christianity is about atonement.

You can be a good person without religion, but the bible says that even if you're a good person, if you don't believe in God you won't allowed in heaven. I had a big problem with this in my teenage years because I knew a lot of good people and I didn't really feel it was right if they weren't allowed in to heaven simply because they didn't accept God. I thought it was bullshit, but as I grew older, I didn't really pay much mind to it.

The people at my church's solution? "Make them Christian so they can get into heaven." They said that if I really loved these people I would introduce them to church or something. I became conflicted. Why exactly should these people go to church when they're already good people? Why should believing in God have any say as to who gets in heaven?

Pretty much after that, I started to distance myself from church. I'm not exactly the right person to ask tbh.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 07:49:28 PM
U2K Tha Greate$t :bow :bow

Dreamcast 2009 :bow :bow

CORNCAT APPROVES

(http://www.indarktrees.com/pics/corncat.gif)

Corncat proves evolution because cats didn't always eat corn.  F U GOD!

Awwwww
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: etiolate on May 12, 2007, 08:36:06 PM
just think of the corny kitty turds it makes
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 08:38:45 PM
Quote
Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me
But it's true.

Btw, can anyone at all even give me a response to this? http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=8029.msg208487#msg208487
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 08:50:12 PM
Quote
Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me
But it's true.

Btw, can anyone at all even give me a response to this? http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=8029.msg208487#msg208487
I think you are talking about theistic evolution and not creationism. One can believe that God started the process of evolution however there is no scientific reason to believe this is the case. There is no reason to believe that an intelligent agent is guiding the process of evolution. I would say that it is very unlikely that an omni-benevolent God would create a process which is so amoral and leads to so much suffering.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 09:28:01 PM
Quote
Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me
But it's true.

Btw, can anyone at all even give me a response to this? http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=8029.msg208487#msg208487
I think you are talking about theistic evolution and not creationism. One can believe that God started the process of evolution however there is no scientific reason to believe this is the case. There is no reason to believe that an intelligent agent is guiding the process of evolution. I would say that it is very unlikely that an omni-benevolent God would create a process which is so amoral and leads to so much suffering.
I don't think you're understanding what I'm asking. Evolution is nothing more then the tracing of genetic changes over the course of billions of years from species evolved from single-cell organisms, right? Where did these single cell organisms come from? They just...appeared? I'm trying to understand how scientists like Hawking can be so confident in saying our world could exist without the hand of any greater being when we haven't even determined where the hell this all came from anyway.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Powerslave on May 12, 2007, 09:58:50 PM
Quote from: Candyflip

B. How the fuck is it fair to let people in to heaven if they are murderers? "Well, they killed 221 people on Earth, but since he accepted and believed in Jesus, it's all good."

I'm the only one that sees any problem in this at all?

I'm just wondering where you have heard this. What I know is, if you kill that many people you don't go to heaven at all. Who told you that 'accepting Jesus' gives you a license to commit crimes?
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Mupepe on May 12, 2007, 10:02:45 PM
no mupepe option?  the end of an era.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Powerslave on May 12, 2007, 10:08:45 PM
Change your name back. These namechanges are gay.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Mupepe on May 12, 2007, 10:16:09 PM
Change your name back. These namechanges are gay.
I don't wanna have to pay for this.  I don't want another lover at my door.  It's just another heartache on my list.  I don't wanna be angry no more.  You know I could never stand for this.  So when you tell me that you love me, know for sure.  I don't wanna be lonely anymore.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Error Macro on May 12, 2007, 11:05:43 PM
What would Jesus do?

JESUS SAYS TAKE IT TO THE HOLE!!




p.s. It'll shock the hell out of me if someone gets that.  Eternal love for sure.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Ichirou on May 12, 2007, 11:09:35 PM
CORNCAT APPROVES

(http://www.indarktrees.com/pics/corncat.gif)

Corncat proves evolution because cats didn't always eat corn.  F U GOD!

holy shit :rofl

TVC's argument is better than the evidence Kirk Cameron gave to disprove evolution! EVOLUTION FTW :lol
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 11:12:05 PM
Quote from: Candyflip

B. How the fuck is it fair to let people in to heaven if they are murderers? "Well, they killed 221 people on Earth, but since he accepted and believed in Jesus, it's all good."

I'm the only one that sees any problem in this at all?

I'm just wondering where you have heard this. What I know is, if you kill that many people you don't go to heaven at all. Who told you that 'accepting Jesus' gives you a license to commit crimes?
Uhh. Read the thread.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 11:14:26 PM
I never said accepting Jesus gives you "license" to kill people. Your argument there is so forced that it doesn't deserve anymore responses honestly.

At the end of the day salvation is about grace and forgiveness, not your particular goodness.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 11:15:29 PM
I never said accepting Jesus gives you "license" to kill people. Your argument there is so forced that it doesn't deserve anymore responses honestly.

At the end of the day salvation is about grace and forgiveness, not your particular goodness.
Forced how? There's nothing false about anything I said.
And, for Powerslave: http://www.abideinchrist.com/selah/oct14.html
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: demi on May 12, 2007, 11:19:53 PM
Has this whole athiesm/christianity argument going on for a long while? I swear this wasn't an issue back in the day. Now it seems like that's all anyone can argue about.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2007, 11:22:27 PM
More proof that evolution exists. Turtles kicking a cats ass!

[youtube=425,350]Ul0gfCyeiyM[/youtube]
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: demi on May 12, 2007, 11:23:48 PM
Then you got these idiots who read up on this Athiesm and voodoo magic about God not existing and ooh-ahh Dawkins and suddenly they are intellectuals. You rank right up there with PD with your FAKE ASS SHIT.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Error Macro on May 12, 2007, 11:28:32 PM
Has this whole athiesm/christianity argument going on for a long while? I swear this wasn't an issue back in the day. Now it seems like that's all anyone can argue about.

Back in the day, I played Nintendo.  There was no Jesus in my NES.  Except for maybe that time someone brought over one of those Wisdom Tree games to play.  omg what a turd!
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 11:28:49 PM
Demi :bow
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 11:31:03 PM
I haven't actually read Dawkin's God Delusion.  :-\
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: demi on May 12, 2007, 11:32:31 PM
Has this whole athiesm/christianity argument going on for a long while? I swear this wasn't an issue back in the day. Now it seems like that's all anyone can argue about.

Back in the day, I played Nintendo.  There was no Jesus in my NES.  Except for maybe that time someone brought over one of those Wisdom Tree games to play.  omg what a turd!

it starts out OMG UR BLACK and people were like OMG HES BLACK

then it goes OMG SHE WANTS WOMEN RIGHTS and people are like OMG SHE WANTS WOMENS RIGHTS

then it was like OMG UR GAY and people were like OMG HES GAY

then it was like OMG UR IRAQI and people were like OMG HES IRAQI

now it's like OMG UR ATHIEST and people are like OMG HES ATHIEST

so what's next
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Powerslave on May 12, 2007, 11:33:08 PM
I never said accepting Jesus gives you "license" to kill people.

was this aimed at me?

and agree at demi. I'm all for logic and evolution but it annoys me how everyone wants to eagerly express their intelligence by denying god and going like 'omg how could anyone believe that!"
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: demi on May 12, 2007, 11:37:55 PM
I haven't actually read Dawkin's God Delusion.  :-\

Even worse - You went to college.

See: PhoenixDark
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 11:39:06 PM
Man, I'm just glad you people aren't this way with the Easter Bunny. "OMG LOOK AT YOU! YOU THINK YOU'RE SO SMART BECAUSE YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN THE EASTER BUNNY, WELL YOU'RE NOT!!!! PROVE THAT HE DOESN'T EXIST! ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE IS NOT EVIDENCE FOR ABSENCE!


Even worse - You went to college.

See: PhoenixDark

Right...
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 11:39:27 PM
I never said accepting Jesus gives you "license" to kill people.

was this aimed at me?

and agree at demi. I'm all for logic and evolution but it annoys me how everyone wants to eagerly express their intelligence by denying god and going like 'omg how could anyone believe that!"
Yeah, damn us for discussing things!
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Powerslave on May 12, 2007, 11:40:09 PM
ya damn you!
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 11:42:34 PM
That makes disussions almost impossible. It's like "lol you're a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow"...how does that help any type of intelligent discussion?

That's why Malek is one of my favorite posters. He just talks about the issue, and yea he owns me a lot but I learn from debating with him
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: demi on May 12, 2007, 11:43:38 PM
I never said accepting Jesus gives you "license" to kill people.

was this aimed at me?

and agree at demi. I'm all for logic and evolution but it annoys me how everyone wants to eagerly express their intelligence by denying god and going like 'omg how could anyone believe that!"
Yeah, damn us for discussing things!

HOW STUPID ARE PEOPLE THAT DONT BELIEVE IN EVOLUTION, CANDYFLIP?

SIGNED,

COMMUNIST WITH NO JOB
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Candyflip on May 12, 2007, 11:45:29 PM
That makes disussions almost impossible. It's like "lol you're a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow"...how does that help any type of intelligent discussion?

That's why Malek is one of my favorite posters. He just talks about the issue, and yea he owns me a lot but I learn from debating with him
I'm sorry if I ever come across as condescending or anything. Ignore that crap, I don't mean it.

I didn't think I was "eagerly expressing my intelligence" though. Half of my posts in this thread are me asking questions.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 11:46:29 PM
That makes disussions almost impossible. It's like "lol you're a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow"...how does that help any type of intelligent discussion?

That's why Malek is one of my favorite posters. He just talks about the issue, and yea he owns me a lot but I learn from debating with him
I'm sorry if I ever come across as condescending or anything. Ignore that crap, I don't mean it.

I didn't think I was "eagerly expressing my intelligence" though. Half of my posts in this thread are me asking questions.
STOP ASKING QUESTIONS AND START WATCHING HOTT FUZZ, OMG!
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: demi on May 12, 2007, 11:47:59 PM
I CAN PROVE POINT FOR POINT WHY GOD DOESNT EXIST BUT I CANT SEEM TO PASS THAT DAMN LSAT
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 11:49:23 PM
I CAN PROVE POINT FOR POINT WHY GOD DOESNT EXIST BUT I CANT SEEM TO PASS THAT DAMN LSAT
It's not a pass/fail test. I scored well above the mean.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 11:53:29 PM
 :lol

Demi wtf
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 12, 2007, 11:54:39 PM
Meh. I like it when people position themselves above such trivial discussions, when they have thousands and thousands of posts on internet message boards on subjects that are even more trivial.
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 12, 2007, 11:58:58 PM
Especially when they're also homeless and dirty liars.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
wtf Demi you said you were gonna come  :'(
[close]
Title: Re: How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?
Post by: demi on May 13, 2007, 12:02:02 AM
Nobody else even said they were coming, PD. If you want me to come so bad, I'll stay in Ann Arbor for a day -- 25th?

I'll stay in a hotel for the night. Slumber Party?


Quote
I like it when people position themselves above such trivial discussions

You would, wouldn't you. Hey, I think I hear some christians down the street. Go teach them some manners.