How stupid are people that don't believe in evolution?

[Himu]

I never said I was religious, but I'm not agnostic either.

[Candyflip]

I never said I was religious, but I'm not agnostic either.

I know, I'm just trying to make my point. But do you at least see where I stand? You can understand my viewpoint?

[Himu]

I understood it from the beginning. As long as you don't look down on me as a idiot who believe in irrational stuff your opinion is fine.

[Candyflip]

I understood it from the beginning. As long as you don't look down on me as a idiot who believe in irrational stuff your opinion is fine.

Oh no, I don't blame anyone for believing there is a chance of creation by a higher being (even if that in it's self is a bit hard to swallow, or explain). I just don't understand the halfway, ad hoc stance that western religion has taken on. But there is a huge difference between believing in a god and believing in the traditional God.

[Himu]

Perhaps science has to do with it? The split of beliefs. Plus, we aren't as hard on people as in other parts of the world.

[Candyflip]

I would hope that science would help people let go of their outdated faiths rather than simply modifying them so everything is all dandy and they can go on in life convinced that they're still religious. There's only so long the two can coexist.

[Phoenix Dark]

So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.

What? It's based on grace. Salvation is through one area, and that's Jesus Christ. How much you tithe, follow the law, or "repent" has nothing to do with getting saved. Likewise going out and murdering people has nothing to do with you not being saved. God forgives all as long as you follow his way of salvation, it's that simple. Why is that a problem? I think it's comforting knowing there's nothing I can do to save myself through my own works, or damn myself through my own works - it was done for me more than 2,000 years ago

Because it's ludicrous. I cannot put my faith in a being that judges people based on their acceptance of an apparent fairy tale. The very idea that our creator would judge us based on belief and acceptance is, again, irrational, which would in turn make God irrational. And I don't believe an irrational being could govern our Universe.

Now you're stretching things. It seems to me like you have a clear agenda here. Who are you to declare a higher being to be irrational in the first place, assuming one exists?

Judging doesn't mean salvation. The very reason God gave the commandments was to prove that man couldn't keep them. You can't save yourself. In other words, your deeds have nothing to do with salvation - Jesus's deeds have everything to do with it.

[Himu]

I would hope that science would help people let go of their outdated faiths rather than simply modifying them so everything is all dandy and they can go on in life convinced that they're still religious. There's only so long the two can coexist.

I still don't see the problem with believing in both at all.

[Candyflip]

So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.

What? It's based on grace. Salvation is through one area, and that's Jesus Christ. How much you tithe, follow the law, or "repent" has nothing to do with getting saved. Likewise going out and murdering people has nothing to do with you not being saved. God forgives all as long as you follow his way of salvation, it's that simple. Why is that a problem? I think it's comforting knowing there's nothing I can do to save myself through my own works, or damn myself through my own works - it was done for me more than 2,000 years ago

Because it's ludicrous. I cannot put my faith in a being that judges people based on their acceptance of an apparent fairy tale. The very idea that our creator would judge us based on belief and acceptance is, again, irrational, which would in turn make God irrational. And I don't believe an irrational being could govern our Universe.

Now you're stretching things. It seems to me like you have a clear agenda here. Who are you to declare a higher being to be irrational in the first place, assuming one exists?

"Who are we to judge the ways of God?" Yeah, I've never heard that before.

So salvation has nothing at all to do with what kind of person you are. It's all based off faith. Yeah right. That's irrational. If God were like that, I'd rather rot in hell for all eternity. Fuck that crap.

What? It's based on grace. Salvation is through one area, and that's Jesus Christ. How much you tithe, follow the law, or "repent" has nothing to do with getting saved. Likewise going out and murdering people has nothing to do with you not being saved. God forgives all as long as you follow his way of salvation, it's that simple. Why is that a problem? I think it's comforting knowing there's nothing I can do to save myself through my own works, or damn myself through my own works - it was done for me more than 2,000 years ago

Because it's ludicrous. I cannot put my faith in a being that judges people based on their acceptance of an apparent fairy tale. The very idea that our creator would judge us based on belief and acceptance is, again, irrational, which would in turn make God irrational. And I don't believe an irrational being could govern our Universe.

Judging doesn't mean salvation. The very reason God gave the commandments was to prove that man couldn't keep them. You can't save yourself. In other words, your deeds have nothing to do with salvation - Jesus's deeds have everything to do with it.

So, you're saying we're all a sick joke created to fail. Alrighty then.

I would hope that science would help people let go of their outdated faiths rather than simply modifying them so everything is all dandy and they can go on in life convinced that they're still religious. There's only so long the two can coexist.

I still don't see the problem with believing in both at all.

And I still don't see how anyone can believe in both. *shrug*

[Phoenix Dark]

I never suggested we were a "sick joke" created to fail. I'm quite the cynical contrarian, but come on dude. 

Many people would like to believe they "deserve" to go to heaven over others based strictly on their works. It's basic human instint. The idea that god levels the playing ground and gives everyone an equal chance to attain salvation may make some feel not as important as they would if they knew salvation was attained through their own actions. I get that. But at the end of the day salvation isn't about you, or me. It's about Jesus Christ.

[Candyflip]

I never suggested we were a "sick joke" created to fail. I'm quite the cynical contrarian, but come on dude. 

Many people would like to believe they "deserve" to go to heaven over others based strictly on their works. It's basic human instint. The idea that god levels the playing ground and gives everyone an equal chance to attain salvation may make some feel not as important as they would if they knew salvation was attained through their own actions. I get that. But at the end of the day salvation isn't about you, or me. It's about Jesus Christ.

But it's what you said nonetheless. In my eyes, creation of a species to purposely manipulate their existence and chances of survival is indeed a sick joke.

I don't feel I or anyone else "deserves" to go to heaven, but just like any other reward, it should be based off merit. Based off what kind of person you are, how strict you live by your morals, your actions in life. The idea that God gives everyone (even the worst, most perverted, disgusting, murderous people in the world) is in my eyes not fair at all. It's just a cheater's safety net. Someone's way of saying "Hey, you should follow the word of God and be a good person, but even if you don't, it's okay! All you really have to do is accept Christ!"

You're honestly telling me you'd support a God who views Stalin as much deserving to go to heaven as Ghandi, simply because of the acceptance of Christ? How does that seem logical or even sane in any way?

[Human Snorenado]

Oh shit, I see that I need to start new poll that U2K Tha Lame$t has returned.

[Flannel Boy]

Oh shit, I see that I need to start new poll that U2K Tha Lame$t has returned.

Whose joke character is he?

[Candyflip]

Come on Pee Dee, don't ditch me now. At least clarify how you justify your stance.

[Phoenix Dark]

Come on Pee Dee, don't ditch me now. At least clarify how you justify your stance.

I've clarified it, what else is there to say? The Bible makes it pretty clear that salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not one's own works. Stalin's salvation would be guarenteed just as much as Ghandi's, MLK's, or anyone elses if he accepted Christ as his savior.

Ever heard of Paul? He was responsible for the murder and imprisonment of many Jews, yet was chosen to be God's last apostle. It's grace.

[Candyflip]

Come on Pee Dee, don't ditch me now. At least clarify how you justify your stance.

I've clarified it, what else is there to say? The Bible makes it pretty clear that salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not one's own works. Stalin's salvation would be guarenteed just as much as Ghandi's, MLK's, or anyone elses if he accepted Christ as his savior.

Ever heard of Paul? He was responsible for the murder and imprisonment of many Jews, yet was chosen to be God's last apostle. It's grace.

Yes, I know. But how can you accept that?

[Himu]

What's wrong with accepting it? If people learn their lessons and become good people, yeah I don't care about their past either. None of my business.

[Phoenix Dark]

What's not to accept? It's the easiest solution; I in now way would be capible of saving myself, or of keeping 900+ commandments. I'm not better than anyone else, so I'm not going to spend time on the merits (well, lack thereof) of Hitler's soul. At the end of the day he was still a sinner just like me, in need of salvation.

[Human Snorenado]

Come on Pee Dee, don't ditch me now. At least clarify how you justify your stance.

I've clarified it, what else is there to say? The Bible makes it pretty clear that salvation is only though Jesus Christ, not one's own works. Stalin's salvation would be guarenteed just as much as Ghandi's, MLK's, or anyone elses if he accepted Christ as his savior.

Ever heard of Paul? He was responsible for the murder and imprisonment of many Jews, yet was chosen to be God's last apostle. It's grace.

Yes, I know. But how can you accept that?

Well, I thought we had long ago established that Michelle wasn't very intelligent. 

[etiolate]

Evolution isn't a problem as much as evolution without God is a problem.

Small evolutions are observable, it's the jumps that are hard to swallow. It's also the convenience that is ...too convenient.  As in the classic moth study, of the moths that were white and lived on trees in Pennsylvania, which their coloring blended into.  Then a mill was built nearby and caused the trees to turn black with soot, which made the moths stick out and thus lower their reproductive survivability.  This would have endangered the moths to predators and exposed their place of breeding, but an evolution saved them. Magically, some Moths evolve/mutate to be colored black to better match the soot. That's too intelligent for a random evolution for me. If it's random, why not pink or any other color? We have changed skin tones from thousands of years of regional sun exposure, but this is a much shortened time in front of a steel mill. This moth example is supposed to show evolution, which it does, but it made me question the randomness of it.  We don't believe in the whole Girafffe theory anymore, but this random lucky chance theory doesn't work here either.

[Cyanista]

There very well might be some sort of god.  There pretty much is evolution.  At this point it's just one more thing you can't explain. 

[Flannel Boy]

 The lifespan of a moth is a few months. So over one human generation you can have 50 or so generations of moths. That's why a random mutation could spread quicker in moths than humans.

Pink and yellow would not give the moths any added benefit in that particular environment so the trait for pink color would not be selected for. YOU KNOW WHAT NATURAL SELECTION IS, RIGHT?

The old giraffe story was part of Lamarckism.


COME ON!

[Phoenix Dark]

There very well might be some sort of god.  There pretty much is evolution.  At this point it's just one more thing you can't explain. 

Then why make definitive statements on it?

[Flannel Boy]

There very well might be some sort of god.  There pretty much is evolution.  At this point it's just one more thing you can't explain. 

Then why make definitive statements on it?

Has she?

[Phoenix Dark]

Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me

[etiolate]

The lifespan of a moth is a few months. So over one human generation you can have 50 or so generations of moths. That's why a random mutation could spread quicker in moths than humans.

Pink and yellow would not give the moths any added benefit in that particular environment so the trait for pink color would not be selected for. YOU KNOW WHAT NATURAL SELECTION IS, RIGHT?

The old giraffe story was part of Lamarckism.


COME ON!

Natural selection would say these moths aren't to survive, but a random evolution is somehow the perfect evolution for them to survive.  Too convenient is all.  It could have been pink or blue, why black?

Also, anyone remember the name of the moth study?

[captainbiotch]

Magic eh.  God came down and saved the moths??

There is always the possibility that there are recessive genes for coloration.  The little buggers get picked off when they don't blend in, but when they do they have that much greater chance of spreading their genes, making more little black moths.  Been known to happen.  No need for magic.

[Cyanista]

Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me

Mhm, and I'm going to believe it until you disprove it to me.  Yet. . if you showed me proof. . I would change my views.

Thus, nothing is absolute.  Do you see how this works?

[Flannel Boy]

Some of the moths already carried the dark allele, but it was only spread when the allele produced a phenotype that was beneficial to the species and the white allele was harmful. The white moths died out and the black allele spread throughout the population.

[etiolate]

No, the white moths still survived, but just moved. I need to get the name and look it up.

[Flannel Boy]

No, the white moths still survived, but just moved. I need to get the name and look it up.

I meant that most of the white moths died out. You must be thinking of the peppered moth of Northern England.

[etiolate]

I think thats it. Peppered sounds familiar.

[$till LegendaryU2K]

Basically, do you still think we should stone rapists to death?

We are not suppose to put anyone to death, and i hope you know that somethings was change within the bible, not the word, rather by Jesus. Asking do i still think we should stone people to death, is like asking me do i still think we should do eye for an eye and we all know we are not suppose to do that anymore. Somethings we are not suppose to do anymore, thats cool.

[Candyflip]

What's wrong with accepting it? If people learn their lessons and become good people, yeah I don't care about their past either. None of my business.

Because

A. You can be a good person without religion
B. How the fuck is it fair to let people in to heaven if they are murderers? "Well, they killed 221 people on Earth, but since he accepted and believed in Jesus, it's all good."

I'm the only one that sees any problem in this at all?

[$till LegendaryU2K]

 And like i said before, i really dont care what anyone believes in, its your life , your choice. I have love for everyone and i dont reject people and i am always there for everyone in this world, and despite what you believe in, i love you.

Always love one another, and be there for all people of this world. My only concern is , that people must do what they are suppose to do in life, i can only that everyone makes the right choice in life.

[Van Cruncheon]

U2K Tha Greate$t

Dreamcast 2009

[TVC15]

U2K Tha Greate$t

Dreamcast 2009

CORNCAT APPROVES



Corncat proves evolution because cats didn't always eat corn.  F U GOD!

[Himu]

What's wrong with accepting it? If people learn their lessons and become good people, yeah I don't care about their past either. None of my business.

Because

A. You can be a good person without religion
B. How the fuck is it fair to let people in to heaven if they are murderers? "Well, they killed 221 people on Earth, but since he accepted and believed in Jesus, it's all good."

I'm the only one that sees any problem in this at all?

I see a problem myself, but that's the way it is. Christianity is about atonement.

You can be a good person without religion, but the bible says that even if you're a good person, if you don't believe in God you won't allowed in heaven. I had a big problem with this in my teenage years because I knew a lot of good people and I didn't really feel it was right if they weren't allowed in to heaven simply because they didn't accept God. I thought it was bullshit, but as I grew older, I didn't really pay much mind to it.

The people at my church's solution? "Make them Christian so they can get into heaven." They said that if I really loved these people I would introduce them to church or something. I became conflicted. Why exactly should these people go to church when they're already good people? Why should believing in God have any say as to who gets in heaven?

Pretty much after that, I started to distance myself from church. I'm not exactly the right person to ask tbh.

[Himu]

U2K Tha Greate$t

Dreamcast 2009

CORNCAT APPROVES

(Image removed from quote.)

Corncat proves evolution because cats didn't always eat corn.  F U GOD!

Awwwww

[etiolate]

just think of the corny kitty turds it makes

[Candyflip]

Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me

But it's true.

Btw, can anyone at all even give me a response to this? http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=8029.msg208487#msg208487

[Flannel Boy]

Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me

But it's true.

Btw, can anyone at all even give me a response to this? http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=8029.msg208487#msg208487

I think you are talking about theistic evolution and not creationism. One can believe that God started the process of evolution however there is no scientific reason to believe this is the case. There is no reason to believe that an intelligent agent is guiding the process of evolution. I would say that it is very unlikely that an omni-benevolent God would create a process which is so amoral and leads to so much suffering.

[Candyflip]

Evolution is going on today all around us.  To deny it goes beyond stupid into brainwashing.

Sounds pretty definitive to me

But it's true.

Btw, can anyone at all even give me a response to this? http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=8029.msg208487#msg208487

I think you are talking about theistic evolution and not creationism. One can believe that God started the process of evolution however there is no scientific reason to believe this is the case. There is no reason to believe that an intelligent agent is guiding the process of evolution. I would say that it is very unlikely that an omni-benevolent God would create a process which is so amoral and leads to so much suffering.

I don't think you're understanding what I'm asking. Evolution is nothing more then the tracing of genetic changes over the course of billions of years from species evolved from single-cell organisms, right? Where did these single cell organisms come from? They just...appeared? I'm trying to understand how scientists like Hawking can be so confident in saying our world could exist without the hand of any greater being when we haven't even determined where the hell this all came from anyway.

[Powerslave]

B. How the fuck is it fair to let people in to heaven if they are murderers? "Well, they killed 221 people on Earth, but since he accepted and believed in Jesus, it's all good."

I'm the only one that sees any problem in this at all?

I'm just wondering where you have heard this. What I know is, if you kill that many people you don't go to heaven at all. Who told you that 'accepting Jesus' gives you a license to commit crimes?

[Mupepe]

no mupepe option?  the end of an era.

[Powerslave]

Change your name back. These namechanges are gay.

[Mupepe]

Change your name back. These namechanges are gay.

I don't wanna have to pay for this.  I don't want another lover at my door.  It's just another heartache on my list.  I don't wanna be angry no more.  You know I could never stand for this.  So when you tell me that you love me, know for sure.  I don't wanna be lonely anymore.

[Error Macro]

What would Jesus do?

JESUS SAYS TAKE IT TO THE HOLE!!




p.s. It'll shock the hell out of me if someone gets that.  Eternal love for sure.

[Ichirou]

CORNCAT APPROVES

(Image removed from quote.)

Corncat proves evolution because cats didn't always eat corn.  F U GOD!

holy shit

TVC's argument is better than the evidence Kirk Cameron gave to disprove evolution! EVOLUTION FTW

[Candyflip]

B. How the fuck is it fair to let people in to heaven if they are murderers? "Well, they killed 221 people on Earth, but since he accepted and believed in Jesus, it's all good."

I'm the only one that sees any problem in this at all?

I'm just wondering where you have heard this. What I know is, if you kill that many people you don't go to heaven at all. Who told you that 'accepting Jesus' gives you a license to commit crimes?

Uhh. Read the thread.

[Phoenix Dark]

I never said accepting Jesus gives you "license" to kill people. Your argument there is so forced that it doesn't deserve anymore responses honestly.

At the end of the day salvation is about grace and forgiveness, not your particular goodness.

[Candyflip]

I never said accepting Jesus gives you "license" to kill people. Your argument there is so forced that it doesn't deserve anymore responses honestly.

At the end of the day salvation is about grace and forgiveness, not your particular goodness.

Forced how? There's nothing false about anything I said.
And, for Powerslave: http://www.abideinchrist.com/selah/oct14.html

[demi]

Has this whole athiesm/christianity argument going on for a long while? I swear this wasn't an issue back in the day. Now it seems like that's all anyone can argue about.

[Himu]

More proof that evolution exists. Turtles kicking a cats ass!

[youtube=425,350]Ul0gfCyeiyM[/youtube]

[demi]

Then you got these idiots who read up on this Athiesm and voodoo magic about God not existing and ooh-ahh Dawkins and suddenly they are intellectuals. You rank right up there with PD with your FAKE ASS SHIT.

[Error Macro]

Has this whole athiesm/christianity argument going on for a long while? I swear this wasn't an issue back in the day. Now it seems like that's all anyone can argue about.

Back in the day, I played Nintendo.  There was no Jesus in my NES.  Except for maybe that time someone brought over one of those Wisdom Tree games to play.  omg what a turd!

[Phoenix Dark]

Demi

[Flannel Boy]

I haven't actually read Dawkin's God Delusion. 

[demi]

Has this whole athiesm/christianity argument going on for a long while? I swear this wasn't an issue back in the day. Now it seems like that's all anyone can argue about.

Back in the day, I played Nintendo.  There was no Jesus in my NES.  Except for maybe that time someone brought over one of those Wisdom Tree games to play.  omg what a turd!

it starts out OMG UR BLACK and people were like OMG HES BLACK

then it goes OMG SHE WANTS WOMEN RIGHTS and people are like OMG SHE WANTS WOMENS RIGHTS

then it was like OMG UR GAY and people were like OMG HES GAY

then it was like OMG UR IRAQI and people were like OMG HES IRAQI

now it's like OMG UR ATHIEST and people are like OMG HES ATHIEST

so what's next

[Powerslave]

I never said accepting Jesus gives you "license" to kill people.

was this aimed at me?

and agree at demi. I'm all for logic and evolution but it annoys me how everyone wants to eagerly express their intelligence by denying god and going like 'omg how could anyone believe that!"