Court limits use of race in school admissions

[Mr. Gundam]

Hey! I was just going to mention Ernie! I was in Omaha when all that shit started going down, I sat and watched all of it on TV with my father-in-law, who's PR firm was involved in the situation.

My wife grew up in Omaha (went to Central High), and always tells me about the busing system they have to promote diversity in the schools.

As for the Seattle slant on the story:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/321632_race29.html

The Supreme Court on Thursday rejected diversity plans that take account of students' race for assignments in Seattle's public schools.

The decision, covering two similar cases involving the Seattle and Louisville, Ky., schools could imperil similar plans in hundreds of districts nationwide, and it leaves public school systems with a limited arsenal to maintain racial diversity.

The court split, 5-4, with Chief Justice John Roberts announcing the court's judgment.

"The way to stop discrimination on the basis of race is to stop discriminating on the basis of race," Roberts wrote for four of the court's nine justices. The ruling applies to school districts that aren't under a court order to remove the vestiges of past discrimination.

Justice Stephen Breyer wrote a dissent that was joined by the court's other three liberals. Breyer said the ruling would "threaten the promise" of the landmark 1954 Brown v. Board of Education school desegregation decision, and warned, "this is a decision that the court and the nation will come to regret."

Justice Anthony Kennedy wrote a concurring opinion in which he said race may be a component of school district plans designed to achieve diversity.

But he agreed with Roberts that the plans in Louisville and Seattle went too far. He said, however, that to the extent that Roberts' opinion could be interpreted as foreclosing the use of race in any circumstance, "I disagree with that reasoning."

Still, the decision strips school boards of a tool for offsetting the impact of racially divided housing patterns. Both sides say they don't know precisely how many school districts nationwide have similar rules, though lawyers say the practice is common, perhaps involving hundreds of districts and millions of children.

The two school systems in Thursday's decisions employ slightly different methods of taking students' race into account when determining which school they would attend.

Federal appeals courts had upheld both plans after some parents sued. The Bush administration took the parents' side, arguing that racial diversity is a noble goal but can be sought only through race-neutral means.

The Seattle case began when a group of parents formed Parents Involved in Community Schools and sued the district in 2000, claiming the policy of using race as a tiebreaker when determining school assignments was unfair and violated students' civil rights.

Kathleen Brose, whose daughter failed to get into highly regarded Ballard High School or her other two top choices because she was white, serves as the group's president and has continued to press the case, even after her daughter graduated from high school.

"I believed so much in what we are doing I just felt we had to win. The goal here is to make sure all kids have access to great schools," she said.

Seattle Public Schools is in the midst of revamping its process for assigning students to schools, and it was unclear Thursday morning how the ruling would affect the district's plans. School district officials were not available for comment Thursday morning, but scheduled a morning news conference to discuss the ruling.

The racial tiebreaker that the Supreme Court struck down Thursday hasn't been in use in Seattle Public Schools for more than five years.

The tiebreaker was part of a School Board decision in 1997 to allow the district's 46,000 students to attend a school of their choice. The assignment plan they adopted that year aimed to end the district's widely unpopular mandatory busing program and return to a neighborhood schools assignment plan, so students could attend school closer to home.

School officials considered a student's race as one of several tiebreakers at popular schools; their race was a factor if the student's attendance would help bring the high school closer to the district-wide average of about 40 percent white students. The tiebreaker helped some minority students get into predominately white high schools, and vice versa.

A student with a sibling at a school got first priority; a student's race was the second tiebreaker, followed by the distance a student lived from the school.

The district has defended the racial tiebreaker, arguing it is necessary to create more diverse schools in a city where many neighborhoods are still segregated.

The Seattle lawsuit accused the school district of violating the Constitution, the federal Civil Rights Act of 1964 and voter-approved Initiative 200, a state law prohibiting preferential treatment on the basis of race, ethnicity or gender.

The case challenged only the use of the racial tiebreaker for high-school assignments, but the district in 2002 suspended the use of the tiebreaker for all schools while the lawsuit worked its way through the courts.

Since then, the district has used the other tiebreakers, such as whether the student lived nearby or had any siblings attending the school, to determine assignments.

Enrollment records show the racial makeup at some Seattle high schools has changed since the district suspended the use of the racial tiebreaker. A few examples:

# At Ballard High School, white students made up slightly more than 58 percent of the student population in 2000; that rose to more than 62 percent in 2006.

# At Cleveland High School, the percentage of black students increased from 35 percent in 2000 to just over 59 percent last fall; during the same time period, the percentage of Asian students dropped from nearly 43 percent to just under 23 percent.

# At Franklin High School, white students made up about 23 percent of the population in 2000 and declined to just over 9 percent by 2006. Over the same time period, the percentage of Asian students at the school rose from about 39 percent to more than 48 percent.

Though they have defended the racial tiebreaker in court, Seattle district officials have declined to say whether the city's public schools would reinstitute the tiebreaker if the Supreme Court rules in the district's favor.

Louisville's schools spent 25 years under a court order to eliminate the effects of state-sponsored segregation. After a federal judge freed the Jefferson County, Ky., school board, which encompasses Louisville, from his supervision, the board decided to keep much of the court-ordered plan in place to prevent schools from re-segregating.

The lawyer for the Louisville system called the plan a success story that enjoys broad community support, including among parents of white and black students.

The opinion was the first on the divisive issue since 2003, when a 5-4 ruling upheld the limited consideration of race in college admissions to attain a diverse student body.

Since then, Justice Sandra Day O'Connor, who approved of the limited use of race, retired. Her replacement, Justice Samuel Alito was in the majority that struck down the school system plans in Kentucky and Washington.

[warcock]

YES LESS WHITE PEOPLE IN SCHOOLS!

[FlameOfCallandor]

I like the idea of letting the student chose their school. It's actually very practical.

[Vizzys]

nvm...

[brawndolicious]

It has noyhing to do with race. Different cultures do things differently. There are smart and dumb white people, as well as smart and dumb asian people.
The fact that yall are calling me racist just means you dont know what racism really is. It trivializes the whole thing.
I wasn't calling the teachers racist. I was calling you racist, for saying that white people are stupid.

the whole article explained very well that over here, there's A LOT of smart kids (vast majority of those are asian but we had an Indian valedictorian).  White's don't have as much pressure to study as asians and indians so they move away.  people DO move away because of changes brought on by a different race becoming the majority.  I believe that you should force integration, there should be no reason that you be allowed to choose what type of school you go to depending on race.

[FlameOfCallandor]

It has noyhing to do with race. Different cultures do things differently. There are smart and dumb white people, as well as smart and dumb asian people.
The fact that yall are calling me racist just means you dont know what racism really is. It trivializes the whole thing.
I wasn't calling the teachers racist. I was calling you racist, for saying that white people are stupid.

the whole article explained very well that over here, there's A LOT of smart kids (vast majority of those are asian but we had an Indian valedictorian).  White's don't have as much pressure to study as asians and indians so they move away.  people DO move away because of changes brought on by a different race becoming the majority.  I believe that you should force integration, there should be no reason that you be allowed to choose what type of school you go to depending on race.

Are you saying that people shouldnt make judgements based on race! 

[Howard Alan Treesong]

FoC, are you really this daft?

Do you know why Martin Luther King said, "I have a dream?"

BECAUSE REALITY IS FUCKING DIFFERENT YOU RACIST COCKSUCKER

[FlameOfCallandor]

So he didn't want people to be judged on their character instead of their skin color? Ahh ok, his speech makes alot more sense.
 

[Howard Alan Treesong]

POP QUIZ:

Which of these lines is taken from MLK's famous "I have a dream" speech?

A) "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
B) "I want my four little children to be judged entirely by the content of their character from this day forth, because I know that there is no racism in America and they will be treated completely fairly."
C) "Kill all Muslim terrorists."

[FlameOfCallandor]

So what King meant to say was


"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character. Untill they apply for a job or college."

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I have a dream that one day we will live in a forum where FoC is lepered if not completely banned.

According to your logic, my dream is now a reality! "One day" is now! Just by making the statement, I have willed it to be so.

Awesome news.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

I have a dream that one day Billy Rygar will have an ice cream sandwich! Let us know how it tastes!

Man, I can't believe I was a member of the reality-based community for so long. Now I'm a DREAM WARRIOR! Like FoC!

[TVC15]

I have a dream that one day we will live in a forum where FoC is lepered if not completely banned.

According to your logic, my dream is now a reality! "One day" is now! Just by making the statement, I have willed it to be so.

Awesome news.

+1

[MrAngryFace]

id leper him if I could, but thats in willco's domain

[FlameOfCallandor]

Yall don't even debate the points you just sit there and try to attack me for my views. It's impossible to have any kind of civil discourse here.

[BobbyRobby]

Every race was treated badly to varying degrees when first entering our society.  I would definitely agree blacks had it the worst outside of Native Americans, but Asians had it pretty bad too.  They were widely persecuted, and had unjust laws passed to discourage them from integration.  Should they be given privileges too despite the fact they have managed to do very well for themselves?

If we were to grant privileges based on how people were mistreated by society in the past, you'd have to create a tier of races related to how badly they were treated, which seems like it'd be wholly inefficient at curing society's problems.

While I am not in favor of any such entitlements, I think the ideal system of AA would be implementing it based on economic class.

While I consider it amoral, I have no qualms with private universities making admissions based on race or whatever criteria they wish.  Public schools and state schools should not engage though.

 

[FlameOfCallandor]

B-B-B-but That's racist.

[brawndolicious]

yeah I agreed with implementing it by economic class and foc somehow didn't understand it.

[BobbyRobby]

I don't think what I've said is racist in the least, but I don't have any problem with being branded a racist.  If my reputation has to suffer for the sake of my ability to speak what I believe is true, whatever.

[FlameOfCallandor]

yeah I agreed with implementing it by economic class and foc somehow didn't understand it.

I never saw you post that. Probably mixed in with the rest of your incoherent postings.

While it is a much much better idea than doing it by race, what you are talking about is basically socialism.

[FlameOfCallandor]

I don't think what I've said is racist in the least, but I don't have any problem with being branded a racist.  If my reputation has to suffer for the sake of my ability to speak what I believe is true, whatever.

Whoa. Who are you?

[brawndolicious]

I said you shouldn't be allowed to choose where you go by race and you said that's "judging people by their race".

[BobbyRobby]

I don't think what I've said is racist in the least, but I don't have any problem with being branded a racist.  If my reputation has to suffer for the sake of my ability to speak what I believe is true, whatever.

Whoa. Who are you?

I am a person who believes in maximizing the rights of the individual, and disregarding any group affiliation they may have.

From what I've read of your posts, it seems that you have a slightly irrational distaste of certain groups, IMO.   Though the problem most seem to have with you is that you come off somewhat obnoxious about it, as if you're trying to spite people who think otherwise or those who are sympathetic to those groups.     

Despite your personal leanings, you haven't said anything that I've seen that leads me to believe you would be in favor of laws that would violate the rights of the members of these groups.  Therefore, although I may disagree with you about your opinion of these groups, it's not worth my time to argue with you since I don't consider you a political threat.

[brawndolicious]

he is a dumbshit though.

[BobbyRobby]

yeah, but it's the internet.  I'm not here to make friends, and honestly I think I'd get along fine with such a person in real life. 

I bet a good majority of the people I know would say things I seriously disagree with if given the anonymity of the internet.

[Van Cruncheon]

let's break this down so even you can understand it, foc. i know you're worried that your potential employment opportunities in the fast food and strawberry picking buisness sectors are rapidly being filled by immigrants, and i don't want to subtract from the time you are obviously spending prepping your resume (be sure to highlight that you went to film school), but i'd like to pose this pair of rhetorical multiple choice questions to you:

black people are have much higher rates of poverty, have poorer educations, and have a greater chance of going to prison because:

a. they are a genetically inferior savage race as per the bell curve
b. they are just lazy and have a strong distaste for education in their culture which only values 'bangin and b-ball and bling-bling
c. they're the same as us; they just keep rejecting the opportunities we provide because, i dunno, they just don't like white people!
d. the effects of 200+ years of slavery have forced large numbers of them into geographically-based cultural microcosms where opportunity and resources are limited, where the only immediate access to said opportunity and resources lie in unstable and often violent activities, and where their sense of community and social support have been completely damaged and disrupted by policies of segregation even after the abolition of slavery even up to this date

the solution to this is:

a. segregate 'em and punish them any time they resist, they are an impediment to the growth of superior caucasian culture
b. let 'em rot, the lazy bastards; sooner or later they'll figure it out and get their acts squared away or they'll all wind up in prison. not my problem!
c. not affirmative action, because that's just reverse racism! there's no actual problem; it's just white liberal hand-wringing! i have black friends and they're doing okay! i don't know what's going on and i don't care to find out because hey: also not my problem!
d. make an honest attempt to acknowledge that american society and the majority culture have continued to inhibit their ability to succeed in the last century, and that while tit-for-tat reparations solve nothing, policies that force the majority culture to interact with and support the minority one, giving the black community access to the same opportunities and support structures while not subsuming black culture is an imperative that will accelerate the chances of true parity of economic opportunity among all races actually happening

CHOOSE PAPANGUS

[BlackMage]

let's break this down so even you can understand it, foc. i know you're worried that your potential employment opportunities in the fast food and strawberry picking buisness sectors are rapidly being filled by immigrants, and i don't want to subtract from the time you are obviously spending prepping your resume (be sure to highlight that you went to film school), but i'd like to pose this pair of rhetorical multiple choice questions to you:

black people are have much higher rates of poverty, poorer educations, and have a greater chance of going to prison because:

a. they are a genetically-inferior savage race as per the bell curve
b. they are just lazy and have a strong distaste for education in their culture which only values 'bangin and b-ball and bling-bling
c. they're the same as us; they just keep rejecting the opportunities we provide because, i dunno, they just don't like white people!
d. the effects of 200+ years of slavery have forced large numbers of them into geographically-based cultural microcosms where opportunity and resources are limited, with the only immediate access to said opportunity and resources lie in unstable and often violent activities, and where their sense of community and social support have been completely damaged and disrupted by policies of segregation even after the abolition of slavery even up to this date

the solution to this is:

a. segregate 'em and punish them any time they resist, they are an impediment to the growth of superior caucasian culture
b. let 'em rot, the lazy bastards; sooner or later they'll figure it out and get their acts squared away or they'll all wind up in prison. not my problem!
c. not affirmative action, because that's just reverse racism! there's no actual problem; it's just white liberal hand-wringing! i have black friends and they're doing okay! i don't know what's going on and i don't care to find out because hey: also not my problem!
d. make an honest attempt to acknowledge that american society and the majority culture have continued to inhibit their ability to succeed in the last century, and that while tit-for-tat reparations solve nothing, policies that force the majority culture to interact with and support the minority one, giving the black community access to the same opportunities and support structures while not subsuming black culture is an imperative that will accelerate the chances of true parity of opportunity and among all races actually happening

CHOOSE PAPANGUS

haha you put all that time into a post debating FoC. You lose at life.

[Van Cruncheon]

btw, i think the phenomenon of "white flight" clearly illustrates the inequality that exists. when white kids are sent to inner city schools to increase the overall race-independent community stake, white parents take their kids and flee. while this is a racist action at its core, the real social inequality is that black people cannot do the same.

[BobbyRobby]

How about choice "e"?

An economic based AA, which is the main idea FoC has been touting.  If blacks are disproportionately affected by poverty, then such a system would help them disproportionately help them.

[Van Cruncheon]

lol me!

[BlackMage]

btw, i think the phenomenon of "white flight" clearly illustrates the inequality that exists. when white kids are sent to inner city schools to increase the overall race-independent community stake, white parents take their kids and flee. while this is a racist action at its core, the real social inequality is that black people cannot do the same.

prolly cause whiteys would get their ass beat at those skools, cause black people are so violent.

[brawndolicious]

he thinks that people should be allowed to choose what public school they go to.  If the government wants to help even out the educational opportunities available to people by making you sit next to a darkie, so what?

[FlameOfCallandor]

The supreme court agrees with me. Sorry if Im right.

[BobbyRobby]

I dunno.  It seems you guys are perfectly content with FoC being a racist, if not implicitly encouraging him.

[BlackMage]

I dunno.  It seems you guys are perfectly content with FoC being a racist, if not implicitly encouraging him.

welcome to Evilbore.

[Mandark]

If there were an Evilbore meetup, I'd so give Drinky the back rub of his life.

One thing that does concern me about AA is that I might have to give up my shade tree.

[Howard Alan Treesong]

The supreme court agrees with me. Sorry if Im right.

In a 5-4 split decision determined by Bush-nominated justices, sure. Does that help you sleep at night?

[BlackMage]

If there were an Evilbore meetup, I'd so give Drinky the back rub of his life.

of course you would. you are all gay for each other.

[Mandark]

The supreme court agrees with me. Sorry if Im right.

In a 5-4 split decision determined by Bush-nominated justices, sure. Does that help you sleep at night?

I was just going to say.  This is one of the weakest appeals to authority ever.  If a Democrat won in 2008, Scalia kicked off, and this got overturned, I somehow doubt FoC would reverse his position.

Anyway, the ruling didn't overturn the previous precedent for race-based admissions to college.

In upholding the admissions plan in Grutter, though, this Court relied upon considerations unique to institutions of higher education

What he's saying is that while there's a compelling interest in having cultural diversity in a university, there isn't one in K-12.

[brawndolicious]

Don't assume that much bobbyrobby.  The first post he made was that the government should never look at race and that it should be ignored by every public institution.  Count the fact that he's been pretty racist (or "xenophobic" by his admission) in the past and the fact that willco and MAF aren't here and you get a 3 page thread full of a bunch of mad people.

And he was wrong, where the fuck did the supreme court talk about INTEGRATING GRADES 1-12?  It's about colleges.  But the first post he made brought all of this on him.  So I'll repeat it, please ban him mods when you come online.

[Fresh Prince]

You know whenever minorities live in certain neighbourhoods etc. they seem to get called out for not intergrating with the wider community enough however when white people do this it's within their rights.