Benoit Watch - DAY FOUR: Son died in a chokehold

[DJ_Tet]

but i didn't know he was distinguished mentally-challenged.

Well, his dad was a wrestler, I'm sure you could have made an educated guess..

spoiler (click to show/hide)

or are we not making horrible jokes anymore?  I can never tell 

[close]

[Ichirou]

was he? i heard the kid was underweight and that benoit was roidin' him up out of vicarious masculine shame, but i didn't know he was distinguished mentally-challenged.

From Wiki:

Son's Fragile X syndrome
Benoit's son had Fragile X syndrome, a condition with effects including autism, which has led one source familiar with Benoit to hypothesize that after he killed his wife, he killed his son for fear that his special educational needs wouldn't be met.[101]

ABCNews.com reported that the couple argued over whether he should stay home more to take care of their son. "I think it's fair to say that the subject of caring for that child was part of what made their relationship complicated and difficult, and it's something they were both constantly struggling with," said Jerry McDevitt, an attorney for World Wrestling Entertainment. "We do know it was a source of stress and consternation."[102]

District Attroney Scott Ballard stated the Daniel had old needle marks in his arms. Ballard said he had been told the parents considered him undersized and had given him growth hormones. "The boy was very small, even dwarfed," he said. [103]

Regarding Fragile X:

While full mutation males tend to present with severe intellectual disability, the symptomology of full mutation females runs the gamut of minimally affected to severe intellectual disability, which may explain why females are underdiagnosed relative to males.

[littlemathletics]

While full mutation males tend to present with severe intellectual disability, the symptomology of full mutation females runs the gamut of minimally affected to severe intellectual disability, which may explain why females are underdiagnosed relative to males.

His son was a mutant as well?

[Ichirou]

If looking like this makes you a mutant, yes:

[littlemathletics]

MUTIE

Should have used his powers to escape to a pocket dimension.

[TVC15]

I wonder if Ruzbeh's dad ever considered doing the same thing.

[Ichirou]

Also, about Fragile X:

Aside from intellectual disability (mental distinguished mentally-challenged), prominent characteristics of the syndrome include an elongated face, large or protruding ears, flat feet, larger testicles in men (macroorchidism), and low muscle tone. Behavioral characteristics may include stereotypic movements (e.g., hand-flapping) and atypical social development, particularly shyness and limited eye contact. Some individuals with the fragile X syndrome also meet the diagnostic criteria for autism.

Looks like we found what Saint Cornelius is suffering from.

[Himu]

@ this thread

Drinky and TVC in full form

[Yeti]

For me, it is more about the absurdity of people (like a lot of gaffers), who are trying to excuse the murders he committed because they liked him as a wrestler. This is just so outside of the realm of logic to me that it makes me laugh at the whole situation.

[ToxicAdam]

Besides the obvious that westerners are star fuckers, the hero worship for Benoit is for a few reasons.

1) He's Canadian.

Those Canucks love Hockey and Wrestling. They worship anyone born in their country that can do either of these things very well.

2) He's short, uncharismatic and not very athletic.

Your average joe relates to him, because he represents them. They could excell like Benoit too, if they only could get off their asses and try.

3) He maintained a level of excellence for over a decade.

I won't bore you with what makes a pro wrestler "good". But, the level of effort and excellence that Benoit was able to maintain for most of his career is unheard of. Most pro wrestlers burn out from injuries when they try this .... or they get fat and lazy once they "make it". He did neither.


But really, #3 is the real reason. The guy was kind of like the Michael Jordan or Cal Ripkin of pro wrestling to fans that consider themselves "smart" (a loaded term for sure). Which is a term for someone that understands pro wrestling in a deeper manner than your casual fan.

[Christopher]

sad indeed.

[Fragamemnon]

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/06/28/wrestler.ap/index.html?eref=rss_us

wtf. His entry in Wikipedia was updated mentioning his wife's death hours before the authorities found the body of the wife. Furthermore, the alterations came from Stamford, Connecticut, where World Wrestling Entertainment is based.

Bizzare.

[TVC15]

Also, ToxicAdam, he is now THE WHITE OJ

[Howard Alan Treesong]

Also, ToxicAdam, he is now THE WHITE OJ

In honor of Benoit's vanilla-white OJ-ness I propose we henceforth refer to him as "the Creamsicle."

[demi]

The Frosty Float

[bork]

Jesus, dcharlie, no, it's not an angle.  The fact that Vince McMahon himself appeared on TV, ending the major storyline they had going on for weeks, confirmed that before all the details about the murder/suicide came out proves it.

By the way, this is this was the second wrestling-related death to occur since that dumb McMahon got blowed up angle started.  Sherri Martell died too, from a drug overdose. 

[Cormacaroni]

Jesus, dcharlie, no, it's not an angle.  The fact that Vince McMahon himself appeared on TV, ending the major storyline they had going on for weeks, confirmed that before all the details about the murder/suicide came out proves it.

By the way, this is this was the second wrestling-related death to occur since that dumb McMahon got blowed up angle started.  Sherri Martell died too, from a drug overdose. 

So a tv statement from an oily impresario who FAKED HIS OWN DEATH means we should take all of this at face value? OK

[Candyflip]

For me, it is more about the absurdity of people (like a lot of gaffers), who are trying to excuse the murders he committed because they liked him as a wrestler. This is just so outside of the realm of logic to me that it makes me laugh at the whole situation.

Jesus. Would you mind pointing me towards some of these posts?

Also, some of you disgust me.

[Yeti]

Read through the newest thread in the hall of fame, it had me laughing through pretty much the whole thread, and there are links in it to the gaf posts in qestion.

[Boogie]

For me, it is more about the absurdity of people (like a lot of gaffers), who are trying to excuse the murders he committed because they liked him as a wrestler. This is just so outside of the realm of logic to me that it makes me laugh at the whole situation.

Jesus. Would you mind pointing me towards some of these posts?

Also, some of you disgust me.

Well, we have 3kuSaS, who says "He was a great man, to everyone who knew him. Good people sometimes do reprehensible things. That's that."

Which is hilarious, when you have news pieces such as this one:

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2007/06/29/4299619-sun.html

in which Bruce Hart, a man who knew Benoit for years, calls him a "delusional juice freak" and says that "I was not at all shocked (by what happened)."

But that doesn't stop all the delusional wrestling fans from saying how out of character this was for Benoit, and how no one saw this coming.

[DJ_Tet]

The fact that the Great Sasuke is a gaf poster is so much more shocking than Benoit killing his wife and child.

[futami]

after all the Vince 'death' backlash, i wonder if this is all part of some elabourate story arch?

Vince 'death' being obviously faked, then coming out of character in order to talk about a 'real' death...

and at the end of next years world championship, mystery wrestler enters to KORN's latest single, fire, brimstone everywhere,

"SENT FROM HELL TO CLAIM THE PRIZE! IN THE FIRE RED CORNER..... "

Fans go crazy! Benoit vindicated - hero total, Fragile Xbox syndrome then has to be acknowledged by MS, everyone gets thier Xbox fixed for free...

it's a win-win-WIN situation.

i, too, have considered the possibility that this is staged.

i wouldn't be surprised if it was revealed, a couple weeks later, that this is fake.

[futami]

For me, it is more about the absurdity of people (like a lot of gaffers), who are trying to excuse the murders he committed because they liked him as a wrestler. This is just so outside of the realm of logic to me that it makes me laugh at the whole situation.

Jesus. Would you mind pointing me towards some of these posts?

Also, some of you disgust me.

Well, we have 3kuSaS, who says "He was a great man, to everyone who knew him. Good people sometimes do reprehensible things. That's that."

Which is hilarious, when you have news pieces such as this one:

http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/National/2007/06/29/4299619-sun.html

in which Bruce Hart, a man who knew Benoit for years, calls him a "delusional juice freak" and says that "I was not at all shocked (by what happened)."

But that doesn't stop all the delusional wrestling fans from saying how out of character this was for Benoit, and how no one saw this coming.

good people, those who're generally amiable and of a noble disposition, aren't given to an occasional bout of abhorrence?

[Van Cruncheon]

abhorrence = a double murder + suicide? yeah, i'd say that pretty much most good people aren't. don't be disingenuous for the sake of contrarianism, futami. sometimes your loathed groupthink has the right of it. deal!

[Mandark]

Boogie: Not to apologize for those defending Benoit, but I understand how they got the impression of him as a "good guy" before this.

When I was following it (up until about five years ago), most wrasslin fans on the net got their news from three sites run by guys (Dave Meltzer, Dave Scherer, Bob Keller) who had some contacts within the companies.

It was pretty heavy on backstage gossip type stuff, and certain names would crop up more than others.  Lots of self-destructive behavior, especially drugs (Davey Boy Smith, Eddie Guerrero, Juvi, Scott Hall, etc.) and guys with problems controlling their aggression (Scott Steiner, Goldberg, Scott Steiner, Sid Vicious, Scott Steiner).

For whatever reasons, incidents with Benoit didn't really show up in the gossip rags, at least from 98-02, so anyone taking them for credible sources would have gotten that impression.

Obviously, some people would much rather construct a Good Guy Who Snapped narrative than recognize that they built up a false image of someone they had never met based on third-hand information.  Cognitive dissonance yadda yadda.

spoiler (click to show/hide)

Seriously though, how was the first major wrestler to a double-homicide NOT Scott Steiner?  If we had done a pool on that, I'd be out some serious cash.

[close]

[futami]

abhorrence = a double murder + suicide? yeah, i'd say that pretty much most good people aren't. don't be disingenuous for the sake of contrarianism, futami. sometimes your loathed groupthink has the right of it. deal!

EVERY HUMAN BEING has the capacity to put aside ALL moral qualms and commit the acts he stands accused of.

that's what makes us human, professor, and it's a bit annoying when you sit there and act as if you're above that.

if you come home and find your wilf getting plowed by someone else, you don't think you'll feel the slightest bit of rage?

you don't think the sight of the love of your life having sex with another man will send you reeling into instability?

that's what happens.

[Mandark]

I thought rationality and a high level of socialization make us human, at least in the "separates us from other animals" sense.

BTW, is it true that the WARRIOR is going to be on Hannity & Colmes tonight?  I've heard it in a couple places, but no signs on the actual H&C page.  Please let it be true.

[futami]

I thought rationality and a high level of socialization make us human, at least in the "separates us from other animals" sense.

BTW, is it true that the WARRIOR is going to be on Hannity & Colmes tonight?  I've heard it in a couple places, but no signs on the actual H&C page.  Please let it be true.

animals act on instict.

they operate from set rules.

humans, conversely, have free will, an ability to act according to a dynamic set of emotions.

that's what separates us from the animal.

if you put a piece of food in front of a dog, it will eat it.

it won't discrminate.

it won't say: "hey, i'll eat this later. but thanks, man"

it will eat anything you put before it, until it becomes sick.

[Bloodwake]

Yeah, really, didn't see that one coming, I was totally all over Steiner killing people first.

[Candyflip]

I thought rationality and a high level of socialization make us human, at least in the "separates us from other animals" sense.

BTW, is it true that the WARRIOR is going to be on Hannity & Colmes tonight?  I've heard it in a couple places, but no signs on the actual H&C page.  Please let it be true.

animals act on instict.

they operate from set rules.

humans, conversely, have free will, an ability to act according to a dynamic set of emotions.

that's what separates us from the animal.

if you put a piece of food in front of a dog, it will eat it.

it won't discrminate.

it won't say: "hey, i'll eat this later. but thanks, man"

it will eat anything you put before it, until it becomes sick.

Regardless of all the bullshit you're spewing, that doesn't change the fact that he killed his wife and son in cold blood. That is much more than an "occasional act of abhorrence" and is inexcusable. I can't believe you're trying to defend his actions.

[Van Cruncheon]

i think futami is trying to say we should be more holistically sympathetic because "there but for the grace of gawd go i" but unlike him there's a really REALLY big gulf between me thinking "grr, wife and kid are pissin' me orf" and fatally putting them in my signature wrestling hold

as a result i think "what a failure of a human being, i hope his sad demise serves as a lesson to idiots for whom the line between anger and violence is so thinly painted"

[futami]

I thought rationality and a high level of socialization make us human, at least in the "separates us from other animals" sense.

BTW, is it true that the WARRIOR is going to be on Hannity & Colmes tonight?  I've heard it in a couple places, but no signs on the actual H&C page.  Please let it be true.

animals act on instict.

they operate from set rules.

humans, conversely, have free will, an ability to act according to a dynamic set of emotions.

that's what separates us from the animal.

if you put a piece of food in front of a dog, it will eat it.

it won't discrminate.

it won't say: "hey, i'll eat this later. but thanks, man"

it will eat anything you put before it, until it becomes sick.

Regardless of all the bullshit you're spewing, that doesn't change the fact that he killed his wife and son in cold blood. That is much more than an "occasional act of abhorrence" and is inexcusable. I can't believe you're trying to defend his actions.

my commentary on his actions aren't so much rationalization, or defense, as they are an attempt to shed light on the human condition.

we've all found ourselves the prey of impulse, victims of perfunctory responses to emotions that we're unable to process upon our initial receipt of them.

whether it's kicking your dog after it eats a dinner you just slaved over the preparation of, or taking a beer bottle and throwing it at a motorist who doesn't understand that turn signals are available for a reason.

what he DID is indefensible, but why he did it has many explanations that are legitimate and understandable.

[Van Cruncheon]

understandable doesn't equate to excusable, just as acknowledgment doesn't equate to empathy

[Cyanista]

There's a reason to kick an old man down a flight of steps...just don't do it.

[Yeti]

I thought rationality and a high level of socialization make us human, at least in the "separates us from other animals" sense.

BTW, is it true that the WARRIOR is going to be on Hannity & Colmes tonight?  I've heard it in a couple places, but no signs on the actual H&C page.  Please let it be true.

animals act on instict.

they operate from set rules.

humans, conversely, have free will, an ability to act according to a dynamic set of emotions.

that's what separates us from the animal.

if you put a piece of food in front of a dog, it will eat it.

it won't discrminate.

it won't say: "hey, i'll eat this later. but thanks, man"

it will eat anything you put before it, until it becomes sick.

My dog often saves food for later if she is not hungry, especially breakfast.

[xnikki118x]

My dog often saves food for later if she is not hungry, especially breakfast.

I was just going to comment on that. We free-feed both of our cats, and they obviously save food for later since they eat throughout the day.

Our old dog used to hide his treats around the house and then he'd find them and eat them later. He'd eat the small treats when they were given to him, but anything he couldn't eat in 3 bites or so was hidden behind a radiator or between couch cushions or under a rug. He'd also bury them in the backyard if you let him outside. He ended up earing most of what he hid, but we did find a few treats in the house after we had him put to sleep. Sad. :/

[Candyflip]

I thought rationality and a high level of socialization make us human, at least in the "separates us from other animals" sense.

BTW, is it true that the WARRIOR is going to be on Hannity & Colmes tonight?  I've heard it in a couple places, but no signs on the actual H&C page.  Please let it be true.

animals act on instict.

they operate from set rules.

humans, conversely, have free will, an ability to act according to a dynamic set of emotions.

that's what separates us from the animal.

if you put a piece of food in front of a dog, it will eat it.

it won't discrminate.

it won't say: "hey, i'll eat this later. but thanks, man"

it will eat anything you put before it, until it becomes sick.

Regardless of all the bullshit you're spewing, that doesn't change the fact that he killed his wife and son in cold blood. That is much more than an "occasional act of abhorrence" and is inexcusable. I can't believe you're trying to defend his actions.

my commentary on his actions aren't so much rationalization, or defense, as they are an attempt to shed light on the human condition.

we've all found ourselves the prey of impulse, victims of perfunctory responses to emotions that we're unable to process upon our initial receipt of them.

whether it's kicking your dog after it eats a dinner you just slaved over the preparation of, or taking a beer bottle and throwing it at a motorist who doesn't understand that turn signals are available for a reason.

what he DID is indefensible, but why he did it has many explanations that are legitimate and understandable.

Really? Because I honestly cannot understand what would push a man to murder his family. But whatever.

[futami]

I thought rationality and a high level of socialization make us human, at least in the "separates us from other animals" sense.

BTW, is it true that the WARRIOR is going to be on Hannity & Colmes tonight?  I've heard it in a couple places, but no signs on the actual H&C page.  Please let it be true.

animals act on instict.

they operate from set rules.

humans, conversely, have free will, an ability to act according to a dynamic set of emotions.

that's what separates us from the animal.

if you put a piece of food in front of a dog, it will eat it.

it won't discrminate.

it won't say: "hey, i'll eat this later. but thanks, man"

it will eat anything you put before it, until it becomes sick.

Regardless of all the bullshit you're spewing, that doesn't change the fact that he killed his wife and son in cold blood. That is much more than an "occasional act of abhorrence" and is inexcusable. I can't believe you're trying to defend his actions.

my commentary on his actions aren't so much rationalization, or defense, as they are an attempt to shed light on the human condition.

we've all found ourselves the prey of impulse, victims of perfunctory responses to emotions that we're unable to process upon our initial receipt of them.

whether it's kicking your dog after it eats a dinner you just slaved over the preparation of, or taking a beer bottle and throwing it at a motorist who doesn't understand that turn signals are available for a reason.

what he DID is indefensible, but why he did it has many explanations that are legitimate and understandable.

Really? Because I honestly cannot understand what would push a man to murder his family. But whatever.

oh, neither can i.

i'm just saying that who are WE to condemn the man for his actions?

humanity is far too complex a condition to level these facile judgments against benoit.

[MrAngryFace]

blah blah we're all animals.

[border]

Ruthless Aggression

[The Fake Shemp]

 

[MyNameIsMethodis]

I CALLED IT! FUTURE LIFETIME MADE FOR TV MOVIE! $5 it'll be called "Wrestling with Shadows"

[Yeti]

I CALLED IT! FUTURE LIFETIME MADE FOR TV MOVIE! $5 it'll be called "Wrestling with Shadows"

The pictures on that page are hilarious 


Leaving action figures outside of Benoit's house! 


Which gaffer with his mother is this? A nintendo t-shirt and a Beatles t-shirt 

[Shuri]

she has a big rack. hmm, i'd hit it.

[Himu]

Good God. Fuck Chris Benoit.

[ferrarimanf355]

So if CG died in a car accident or something, it would be all shits and giggles for you.

Depends on the type of accident.  Are we talking Dale Earnhardt-type accident or what?

I, uh, actually have a link to footage of that wreck on Youtube. It's bumping around somewhere.