Geez, no wonder that people hated Working Designs...

[Mondain]

And their "witty" humor not present in the original japanese games...

Fourty minutes into Lunar: Silver Star Story, the great white dragon in a cave says:

"But why do you want the (insert dragon artifact here) so badly? Don't you know it's made from my shit?"

[Himu]

Fuck that. Look what they did to Silhouette Mirage.

I HATE Working Designs.

[Mondain]

wtf did they do to it

[abrader]

Ill take what I can get, and read....and that happens to be WD...

[pancakesandsex]

And their "witty" humor not present in the original japanese games...

Fourty minutes into Lunar: Silver Star Story, the great white dragon in a cave says:

"But why do you want the (insert dragon artifact here) so badly? Don't you know it's made from my shit?"

as far as i know, thats present in the original game.  i'll check my saturn version later.  Lunar was a pretty goofy game on both sides of the pond

as far as  mirage goes, the original is just as annoying to listen to vocally, and the slight changes made to the gameplay (has to do with weapons using up your bottom bar, and being able to steal power for the bar from like colored enemies, where as the original didnt use up weapon energy to fire, and you couldnt steal, you had to buy an item) make it feel like more of an arrange mode than anything else.  im not a huge fan of the game in the 1st place, but they really didnt do a bad job on it at all.

[Himu]

wtf did they do to it

Import vs Domestic

Here's where we run in to trouble. The domestic version is very cheap and fairly easy to find, and it's how most people are exposed to Silhouette Mirage. Working Designs is legendary/notorious for going that "extra mile" when localizing games. Unfortunately in this case it means a good deal of tampering that we would have been better off without as well.

On the up side, WD added some nice loading screens, a new Shyna vs Zohar mini-game, re-encoded the intro to look very lovely. Also added was optional analog control, which I don't use, but it's nice to have. It's a very polished localization, and they certainly didn't rush or skimp. Unfortunately that's about all they did right

As a translation, WD's effort is a C-. The story is mostly intact. As per usual, WD has inserted alot of jokes that weren't in the original, but given the lighthearted and humorous nature of the game, I don't have a problem with this. In fact, most of these jokes are very funny, as is the mostly great (but sometimes annoying) voice work. But where WD screws up, ironically, is that their translation is simply poor and amaturish in many places.

Silhouette Mirage has a strong biblical theme throughout, which Working Designs not only didn't translate, but simply didn't seem to pick up on. Many names are awkward phoenetic mistranslations of their intented names, and others are changed for no apparent reason, while some are left intact. Gregory is changed to "Grigg". Delilah is changed to Delia. Paulo is changed to Pablo, Dunamis is now Dynamis. These seem lke errors to me. Then there are the bizzare like Balchus being changed to "Nardo". But Goliath, Sarah, etc are left alone. The biblical theme is also carried over tot he weapons, which are named for the seven deadly sins (with vowels tacked on the end); Slotha, Pridee, Gluttonee, Angera, Envya, Covetousu, and Lusti. In Working Designs' version these become Surosa, Priday, Grattoni, Angara, Envia, Cavitas, and Rasti. I don't get the feeling that this was done for censorship purposes. I think they just didn't know what they were doing.

But all of that would be pretty forgivable if the game itself was left intact. Sadly, this isn't the case. Working Designs, as they are known to do, decided to make the game harder. This wouldn't be so bad (it might even be good) if it was handled intelligently by, say, increasing the amount of damage enemies deal, or reducing the number of continues. But instead WD opted to make the game more difficult by tampering with the gameplay itself. First, they altered the system so the firing actually drains your spirit. They tried to balance this out by giving you the ability to absorb the spirit of enemies of the same attribute. This just made the fighting more drawn out by forcing the player to drain enemies before killing them. It also made it impossible to maintain a maxed out weapon. The second major change was that they inflated the cost of weapons in the shops. This had two effects: First, you had to methodically cash bash as many enemies as possible to get enough money to get a decent weapon. Second, it means it's not really practical to get weapons you don't need. So it effectively forces the player to pick a favorite weapon and stick with it, rather than having a few and picking the best one for each fight. The end result of these challenges is not just a more difficult game, but a slower, more methodical, and more tedious one.

http://sfkosmo.classicgaming.gamespy.com/treasure/games/silhouettemirage/comparison.html

Working Designs thought that just because they were supposedly good translators and released over priced software bundles that they could try their hand in altering an already finished game.

WD BLOWS.

[Mondain]

Yeah, anyone remembers are those worthless CE editions that were hyped for months and months on end and ended up retailing for like 89,99$?

[Himu]

Yeah.

Fucking WD.

[TVC15]

And they wouldn't bring MegaTen to the US because Vic Ireland was SCARED OF THE DEVIL!

[Van Cruncheon]

yeah, vic is a big ol' seventh day adventist. like CRAZY into it, i guess.

[Mondain]

And they wouldn't bring MegaTen to the US because Vic Ireland was SCARED OF THE DEVIL!

Wonder why it's not gotten trouble to Atlus yet, probably because it's so obscure. If Jack Thompson's nephew played it randomly and his uncle passed by, the whole US nation would suddenly consider Digital Devil Saga to be a devilish game destined to turn children into cannibalistic Satan worshippers.

It's just scary to realize how randomly and whimsically these witch hunts really start.

[Van Cruncheon]

you missed his point, mondain: vic didn't bring megaten over because he was worried about the american reception of its themes; it's that HE HIMSELF didn't agree with its evil satan-worshipping ways!

[Himu]

At least we have ATLUS now. Screw WD.

[TVC15]

I heard the only way he can have sex with his wife is through a hole in a sheet, and they are only allowed to do it when she is ovulating.

[Mondain]

you missed his point, mondain: vic didn't bring megaten over because he was worried about the american reception of it's themes; it's that HE HIMSELF didn't agree with its evil satan-worshipping ways!

uh, I had gathered

[Mondain]

At least we have ATLUS now. Screw WD.

Atlus

It's so rare nowadays when you care about buying a game and feel that you're fully getting your money's worth.

[Himu]

Although some Atlus releases have been disappointing lately (Contact, Odin Sphere it seems) Atlus is one publisher where you can almost count on the game being quality of some respect.

[The Fake Shemp]

I heard the only way he can have sex with his wife is through a hole in a sheet, and they are only allowed to do it when she is ovulating.

 

[TVC15]

Although some Atlus releases have been disappointing lately (Contact, Odin Sphere it seems) Atlus is one publisher where you can almost count on the game being quality of some respect.

[The Fake Shemp]

Rule of Rose - wtf is that?

[TVC15]

Rule of Rose - wtf is that?

A really bad survival horror game in the vein of Silent Hill.

[Van Cruncheon]

two out of three boxes featuring horse nipples can't be wrong!

[Eduardo24]

Rule of Rose is a shit game with a nice plot twist.

[TVC15]

Rule of Rose is a shit game with a nice plot twist.

What's the twist.  I only played for a lil'

[Himu]

Although some Atlus releases have been disappointing lately (Contact, Odin Sphere it seems) Atlus is one publisher where you can almost count on the game being quality of some respect.

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

(Image removed from quote.)

THEY DONT' EXIST

[y2kev]

Himuuuuuu....I bought RoR cause of your thread title!

Best horror game since SH2?

:O

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

I can't hate any company that pushes lightgun and 2D shooters in America, its encoded in my DNA.



RIP.

[abrader]

Speaking of - where the hell is thunderForce 6 and Herzog Zwei II already?

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

Speaking of - where the hell is thunderForce 6 and Herzog Zwei II already?

There is a sorta-kinda-a little bit-Thunder Force 6 out already.  Called "Broken Thunder", its a Japanese PC release that purportedly has good music and not much else.



nothing to get your panties in a wad over.

[Himu]

Herzong Zwei <3

Thunder Force series <3

[Ichirou]

And their "witty" humor not present in the original japanese games...

Fourty minutes into Lunar: Silver Star Story, the great white dragon in a cave says:

"But why do you want the (insert dragon artifact here) so badly? Don't you know it's made from my shit?"

Uh, that line actually was in the original Japanese version.  You should have quoted one of the numerous Bill Clinton jokes, fart jokes, gay sex jokes, or breast jokes which WD added.

[bork]

Working Designs was great at one time, because they brought over games that no one else would have.  That all changed, and it became more of a negative if WD got a license, because it meant that the game would take forever and have a more "localized" translation.  I'm not against that, actually; adapting a story and changing certain things to suit a different audience can work very well, but some of WD's changes were bad jokes that are incredibly dated now.  Then there's also the changes that they made to certain games, taking out or changing features to make them "harder."  Right.  They had great packaging though.

If you go and google "Lyte Edge Sylpheed," you can probably still find an old usenet thread where I said Sylpheed The Lost Planet was a piece of shit, only to be flamed by WD fanboys and even a slight knock from Victor Ireland himself.  Funny since the game I played was released by Capcom and had nothing to do with WD at the time.  Great stuff.  On the flipside, Victor Ireland going after Gamefan magazine for its review of Lunar II (they didn't complete it) and making the apology letter/bullshit from Dave Halverson public was just fucking awesome.

I'm still interested in seeing what happens with Gaijinworks, awful name aside.

[Mondain]

But now that next-gen game development has shown that it's much more expensive, will there really be a whole bunch of Japan-only games left to be released for companies like Atlus and Gaijinworks? It seems like the general tendency of console gaming is to release most any game to US shores, or to make a japanese game with American audiences in mind. In 2007, the market of gamers craving niche Japanese games translated in english is much bigger than it was in the past. What will they have left for release here other than a bunch of obscure DS games?

[Ichirou]

But now that next-gen game development has shown that it's much more expensive, will there really be a whole bunch of Japan-only games left to be released for companies like Atlus and Gaijinworks? It seems like the general tendency of console gaming is to release most any game to US shores, or to make a japanese game with American audiences in mind. In 2007, the market of gamers craving niche Japanese games translated in english is much bigger than it was in the past. What will they have left for release here other than a bunch of obscure DS games?

Atlus has an exclusive pipeline of games from Japan, they'll survive.  I don't see any future for Gaijinworks, though, not with Vic Ireland's business "savvy" at the helm.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

there are shitloads of worthwhile games that get play in Japan but never see the east.  I don't see anybody pushing many of the scads of weirdo puzzle games, genre mash-ups, shooters, and less famous RPG's that so heavily populate Japan here in America.

Atlus does a great job, a very great job, I'm not disputing that.  But to say that there's nothing left over there to bring out here is just plain silly.  What's more accurate is to say is that the future market is changing drastically.  Its always been a nickel and dime business selling Wacky Jappy in America.  NIS, Atlus, SNK, Konami, and occasional contributors Mastiff, D3, Square Enix, Majesco, Agetec, Ubi Soft, and more, are taking up all the Japafag money to be spent.  There's still lots of games out there that I'd want to play that don't come out here.  But the market for niche tastes is crowded as hell.

What I want very badly is a publisher who publishes the puzzle and action games, leaves the angsty teenager RPG's to the other guys.  If Gajinworks does that, they will have themselves a steady customer right here.

[Himu]

But aren't the MAJORITY of the worthwhile jp games from last gen released stateside? At least for ps2, gc, and xbox? If we were talking about dreamcast and below that, I'd agree but as it stands, most niche games make it over here these days. Although there are exceptions (it's taking forever for Project Sylpheed;etc to make a US release, and Ocheniaaldsfjasobaara whatever the fuck may never come). But when you compare the fact we finally got Earth Defense Force and some other games when we didn't even get that last gen, you can definitely see progress.

If you are so adamant on suggesting that there is a large amount of jp only titles not being released these days, make a list of these games and we can have a discussion over it. We were pondering making a list of worthwhile jp only games from last gen anyways.

[Christopher]

Lunar Silver STar Story

[trippingmartian]

At least we have ATLUS now. Screw WD.

Fuck Atlus...at least until they release Innocent Sin.

[bork]

Lunar Silver STar Story

Okay, sure, but WD just released it in English.  They don't have shit to do with how good any of the games they released are.

[Oblivion]

"But why do you want the (insert dragon artifact here) so badly? Don't you know it's made from my shit?"

Was that an actual line?

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

But aren't the MAJORITY of the worthwhile jp games from last gen released stateside? At least for ps2, gc, and xbox? If we were talking about dreamcast and below that, I'd agree but as it stands, most niche games make it over here these days. Although there are exceptions (it's taking forever for Project Sylpheed;etc to make a US release, and Ocheniaaldsfjasobaara whatever the fuck may never come). But when you compare the fact we finally got Earth Defense Force and some other games when we didn't even get that last gen, you can definitely see progress.

If you are so adamant on suggesting that there is a large amount of jp only titles not being released these days, make a list of these games and we can have a discussion over it. We were pondering making a list of worthwhile jp only games from last gen anyways.

Yes, we've had progress, a whole lot of it, but things ain't ideal yet.  My list is going to be mostly devoid of RPG's because I really don't care about em.

2D shooters
Radirgy
Trizeal
Psyvariar Complete, Psyvariar 2
Homura
Mushihimesama
ESPgaluda
Double Shinryu
Ibara
DoDonPachi Dai-Oujou
Twinkle Star Sprites

2D Fighters
Fist of the North Star
The Rumble Fish 1, 2
Melty Blood
Matrimelee
Samurai Showdown Tenka

Falcom's YS games, III, IV, and V.

Action Games
PS2 Beserk
every Sandlot game that wasn't R.A.D. and EDF 3

Fucktons of Text/Graphic Adventure games such as...
Project Hacker

Puzzle games
Kuri Kuri series
many, many, so many

Loli Rape Sims
Sakura Wars
+ too many to count

and that's just off the top of my head.  A fair number of those got European releases but no Stateside versions, which means that SOMEBODY thought them to be worthwhile enough to publish.  I don't see how anybody who's an enthusiast (meaning pretty much anybody reading this) can say, "There's not too much room for improvement there, nope, things are just fine as is."

I honestly blame the RPG addled Japafags for ruining niche publishing in America.  Unless its got a androgynous dude on the front cover, it won't sell here in America.  SCEA sure hasn't made things any easier when it comes to pushing 2D games around here either.

[Ichirou]

I don't think I like your putting Loli Rape Sims and Sakura Wars so close to each other. 

[Himu]

Sakura Taisen != loli rape

[tiesto]

The Ys PS2 remakes are best left to Japan, trust me on that one!

As an aside, we also got screwed out of the SEGA AGES 2500 lineup... including the Phantasy Star 1 and 2 remakes (which were supposed to come to the US, actually, way back when), and the incredible Monster World Collection. We didn't really get screwed out of too many RPGs... that Venus and Braves game looked kinda cool, and we never got TOD2 or TOR, but most of the good RPGs made it here.

[Himu]

I really would like Dragon Quest V ps2 remake. Sigh. I was hoping because DQVIII sold reasonably well here, we'd get it...

[Ichirou]

I really would like Dragon Quest V ps2 remake. Sigh. I was hoping because DQVIII sold reasonably well here, we'd get it...

Me too. It's a full-on 3D remake so you would think that would qualify it to get re-released in the States on PS2.

[Himu]

Well it seems, according to what Aena told me, that we should expect a DQV remake for ds. We should be getting that one.

[Ichirou]

I hope so!  Funnily enough, the game I'm probably looking forward to the most this year is Wild Arms 5, not any of the really BIG titles.  I love niche games and Agetec, Atlus, et al, are doing a good job of releasing them...

Whatever happened to the company that released La Pucelle?  Bulldog games or something?  Did they go out of business?

[Himu]

La Pucelle was released by NIS if I remember.

Wild Arms 5? I still want 4. I'm a big fan of 3 and I should be getting the remake some time. Amazing how I have a good 70 or so ps2 games (mostly exclusives) and I still have games that I want.

[Ichirou]

La Pucelle was released by NIS if I remember.

Wild Arms 5? I still want 4. I'm a big fan of 3 and I should be getting the remake some time. Amazing how I have a good 70 or so ps2 games (mostly exclusives) and I still have games that I want.

I'm pretty sure La Pucelle was released by another company and NIS America only started releasing their own games with Phantom Braves...

Don't get Alter Code F.  It's an awful, awful game.  The translation ruins it.  It's really awkward and they cut out all the voice from the game.

[HyperZoneWasAwesome]

La Pucelle Tactics was done by Mastiff games, they're the guys who did Gungrave Overdose (yea) and the recent PSP game Gurumin.  They have also done a bunch of lowbrow budget games in between their more high profile releases that people don't buy.

The Sega Ages stuff has been really, really awesome looking as of late.  I can't believe none of them have gotten here yet.  The Dynamite Dekka, Panzer Dragoon, Dragon Force remakes all look too awesome.

And Sakura Wars is the game where you play a Mech commander who dates his disturbingly young looking lieutenants, right?  I'd like to try a Tactics/Dating Sim just because it sounds so weird.  I'm sorry if I mis-catorgirized it.

[Ichirou]

La Pucelle Tactics was done by Mastiff games, they're the guys who did Gungrave Overdose (yea) and the recent PSP game Gurumin.  They have also done a bunch of lowbrow budget games in between their more high profile releases that people don't buy.

The Sega Ages stuff has been really, really awesome looking as of late.  I can't believe none of them have gotten here yet.  The Dynamite Dekka, Panzer Dragoon, Dragon Force remakes all look too awesome.

And Sakura Wars is the game where you play a Mech commander who dates his disturbingly young looking lieutenants, right?  I'd like to try a Tactics/Dating Sim just because it sounds so weird.  I'm sorry if I mis-catorgirized it.

Mastiff, bulldog...I knew the company was named after some breed of dog!   I didn't know they'd done Gurumin and Gungrave Overdose.  I might have to pick those two games up to support them, they did a top-notch job on La Pucelle.

You don't date anybody in Sakura Taisen, though all your lieutenants actually are female.  It's pretty japafagtacular, but its female fanbase is quite sizeable compared to its male fanbase (perhaps because ST has never fallen into the disgusting "moe" trend).  I am an unabashed fanboy of the series and I've even visited the Sakura Cafe in Ikebukuro.

[Himu]

Was Gungrave good? I always wanted to try it.

[bork]

Gungrave is crap.  But maybe you'd like it, since it's for pussies and you pussied out on RE4.   

Sakura Taisen?  L-O-L.  YOU ARE ALL PEDO FOR IRIS

[Himu]

Iris can die in a fire.

[Ichirou]

Gungrave is crap.  But maybe you'd like it, since it's for pussies and you pussied out on RE4.   

Sakura Taisen?  L-O-L.  YOU ARE ALL PEDO FOR IRIS

Why is everybody on Evilbore behaving like complete fucktards today?

[TVC15]

Gungrave is crap.  But maybe you'd like it, since it's for pussies and you pussied out on RE4.   

Sakura Taisen?  L-O-L.  YOU ARE ALL PEDO FOR IRIS

Why is everybody on Evilbore behaving like complete fucktards today?

You mean like accusing other posters of making death threats?

[Ichirou]

Gungrave is crap.  But maybe you'd like it, since it's for pussies and you pussied out on RE4.   

Sakura Taisen?  L-O-L.  YOU ARE ALL PEDO FOR IRIS

Why is everybody on Evilbore behaving like complete fucktards today?

You mean like accusing other posters of making death threats?

Or calling people stupid n*ggers or telling them to die in a fire.  That kind of thing.

[TVC15]

Gungrave is crap.  But maybe you'd like it, since it's for pussies and you pussied out on RE4.   

Sakura Taisen?  L-O-L.  YOU ARE ALL PEDO FOR IRIS

Why is everybody on Evilbore behaving like complete fucktards today?

You mean like accusing other posters of making death threats?

Or calling people stupid n*ggers or telling them to die in a fire.  That kind of thing.

We can't call people that word here.  There is a text replacement filter.  I am sorry you consider "distinguished black fellow" to be offensive.

[Ichirou]

Cute.