Author Topic: Christ, Lair is so damn beautiful! (Read 4634 times)

Mondain · « **on:** July 04, 2007, 10:14:38 AM »

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21218.html?r=1&type=wmv

Have you seen this? The models, the draw distance, the amount of polygons pushed on screen, the gorgeous-looking water streams, the THOUSANDS of individually displayed and animated AI soldiers all moving in unison? And all of this running in native 1080p? An amazing feat that based on Factor 5's sayings, is absolutely out of reach from the 360, and cements the PS3 as the most powerful console system released yet.

The gameplay is probably going to end up being so-so (just looking at dragons spitting fires like Star Wars ships shoot lasers is lame), but this is such a marvel of technical accomplishment. Wow just fuck WOW! There's hints of slowdown and screen tearing in this specific video but hopefully such things are ironed out in time for the game's release in mid-August.

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #1 on:** July 04, 2007, 10:37:20 AM »

The game plays like shit, though.

bud · « **Reply #2 on:** July 04, 2007, 10:38:24 AM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 04, 2007, 10:30:50 AM

Quote
There's hints of slowdown and screen tearing in this specific video but hopefully such things are ironed out in time for the game's release in mid-August.

other than gameplay, this is my biggest worry. It was a mess last tgs (and not 1080p native at that time), and the videos of "<whatever it is called> of Lair" still seems to have a lot of frame rate issues - certianly not what i`d call "a hint" but hey - it`s not like Factor 5 haven`t got the talent to do it..... anyways, as long as the game plays well, it`ll get a pass.

from all the videos i've seen it mostly looks like all you do is fire fireballs $:-\$

it does look very pretty, though. it kinda reminds me of lotr art-style wise.

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #3 on:** July 04, 2007, 10:41:21 AM »

It's not even the lack of variety that kills the game, and there is definitely some, but the word is that the controls are awful.

And I love Factor 5. I knew Julian Eggebrecht personally for a long time and was good friends with a lot of the staff over there - they're great people. But the Sixaxis controls implemented are apparently awful and anyone who has played the game can attest to this.

Eduardo24 · « **Reply #4 on:** July 04, 2007, 10:46:08 AM »

It will probably play like shit and be a 5 hour game.

Mondain · « **Reply #5 on:** July 04, 2007, 10:52:34 AM »

That's why it's wiser to simply rent it. It's like those dull Hollywood popcorn movies that you nearly only play to test out your new HDTV because some of them have stellar video transfers combined with killer special effects.

The Fake Shemp · « **Reply #6 on:** July 04, 2007, 10:54:52 AM »

Quote from: Mondain on July 04, 2007, 10:52:34 AM

That's why it's wiser to simply rent it. It's like those dull Hollywood popcorn movies that you nearly only play to test out your new HDTV because some of them have stellar video transfers.

Except Sony is counting on it as a system seller. It'll push a huge amount of initial units, but the backlash against this game will be pretty strong. And probably pretty quick. Haha, even the Sony rep that came into the store said the game controls terribly - that's bad when it's coming from the horse's mouth.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #7 on:** July 04, 2007, 11:25:48 AM »

Quote from: Mondain on July 04, 2007, 10:14:38 AM

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21218.html?r=1&type=wmv

Have you seen this? The models, the draw distance, the amount of polygons pushed on screen, the gorgeous-looking water streams, the THOUSANDS of individually displayed and animated AI soldiers all moving in unison? And all of this running in native 1080p? An amazing feat that based on Factor 5's sayings, is absolutely out of reach from the 360, and cements the PS3 as the most powerful console system released yet.

Is it like how 60FPS in Madden is absolutely out of reach for the PS3?

Mondain · « **Reply #8 on:** July 04, 2007, 11:48:18 AM »

Apples and oranges, a bunch of craptastic western developers having complications to optimize their single core PC-based code and expertise on a radically different multicore architecture during a transition period, is an wholly different matter when compared to individual exclusives like this one. There's nothing on 360 that pushes as many individually-animated characters and as much geometry on screen as Lair is, and at a resolution as high.

MrAngryFace · « **Reply #9 on:** July 04, 2007, 11:50:00 AM »

HOW BOUT THAT TRANSFORMERS MOVIE AND GAME LOLOLOLOL

bud · « **Reply #10 on:** July 04, 2007, 11:58:37 AM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 04, 2007, 11:51:50 AM

Quote
Apples and oranges, a bunch of craptastic western developers having complications to optimize their single core PC-based code and expertise on a radically different multicore architecture during a transition period, is an wholly different matter when compared to individual exclusives like this one. There's nothing on 360 that pushes as many individually-animated characters and as much geometry on screen as Lair is, and at a resolution as high.

well, you`d be surprised which people are having trouble... it`s not as straight forward as this line bolded - not by a long shot. There`s some very tallent teams out there having LOTS of problems with the PS3 ...

why are you teasing $:-\$

spill it dc!

futami · « **Reply #11 on:** July 04, 2007, 03:37:54 PM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 04, 2007, 11:51:50 AM

Quote
Apples and oranges, a bunch of craptastic western developers having complications to optimize their single core PC-based code and expertise on a radically different multicore architecture during a transition period, is an wholly different matter when compared to individual exclusives like this one. There's nothing on 360 that pushes as many individually-animated characters and as much geometry on screen as Lair is, and at a resolution as high.

well, you`d be surprised which people are having trouble... it`s not as straight forward as this line bolded - not by a long shot. There`s some very tallent teams out there having LOTS of problems with the PS3 ...

who gives a shit?

there's more than enough evidence that the system is more powerful than the 360.

it's not even up for debate, a fact contested only by fanboys.

yes, it's complicated, the system will deliver when placed in the hands of a team capable of harnessing its amazing power.

The Sceneman · « **Reply #12 on:** July 04, 2007, 03:56:15 PM »

^

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #13 on:** July 04, 2007, 04:15:23 PM »

It seems more fanboyish to think that "PS3 is more powerful than the 360" is not debatable when even evolution can be debated. Many multiplatform games continue to be better on the 360 and we haven't even played the supposedly awesome PS3 exclusives that aren't possible on the 360 yet. Why should a consumer give a shit about issues like optimization for a difficult architecture? All a consumer should care about is which platform consistenly delivers the better version of a game and right now it's not the PS3. Most of the complaints about developers not programming specifically for the PS3 have been from Sony and their supporters. Most neutral parties have yet to concur that the PS3 is significantly more powerful and that it just needs more optimization. If the PS3 is so much more powerful than the 360, then why is a PS3 exclusive like VF5, improved graphically when it is ported over to the 360?

Beezy · « **Reply #14 on:** July 04, 2007, 05:54:04 PM »

It does look great, but Factor 5's games are fucking boring.

The Sceneman · « **Reply #15 on:** July 04, 2007, 06:35:58 PM »

Quote

the system will deliver when placed in the hands of a team capable of harnessing its amazing power

Man this quote is still blowing my mind

futami · « **Reply #16 on:** July 04, 2007, 08:59:49 PM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on July 04, 2007, 04:15:23 PM

It seems more fanboyish to think that "PS3 is more powerful than the 360" is not debatable when even evolution can be debated. Many multiplatform games continue to be better on the 360 and we haven't even played the supposedly awesome PS3 exclusives that aren't possible on the 360 yet. Why should a consumer give a shit about issues like optimization for a difficult architecture? All a consumer should care about is which platform consistenly delivers the better version of a game and right now it's not the PS3. Most of the complaints about developers not programming specifically for the PS3 have been from Sony and their supporters. Most neutral parties have yet to concur that the PS3 is significantly more powerful and that it just needs more optimization. If the PS3 is so much more powerful than the 360, then why is a PS3 exclusive like VF5, improved graphically when it is ported over to the 360?

the same vf5 that has poorer textures?

Himu · « **Reply #17 on:** July 04, 2007, 11:44:20 PM »

Give me a REAL Panzer Dragoon.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #18 on:** July 04, 2007, 11:58:07 PM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 04, 2007, 09:09:09 PM

General consensous of everyone who has played it (including Shane "SonyfanBoy" B.) is that the X360 version looks and plays better than the PS3. The PS3 might get a downloaded upgrade though - but it just depends what exactly MS paid Sega to add exclusively.

Only fanboys will deny that Blu-ray is needed for Full-HD gaming.

The Sceneman · « **Reply #19 on:** July 05, 2007, 01:02:57 AM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on July 04, 2007, 11:58:07 PM

Quote from: dcharlie on July 04, 2007, 09:09:09 PM
General consensous of everyone who has played it (including Shane "SonyfanBoy" B.) is that the X360 version looks and plays better than the PS3. The PS3 might get a downloaded upgrade though - but it just depends what exactly MS paid Sega to add exclusively.

Only fanboys will deny that Blu-ray is needed for Full-HD gaming.

Only fanboys would say that it is needed!

bluemax · « **Reply #20 on:** July 05, 2007, 03:50:44 PM »

I bet Lair plays almost exactly like the Star Wars game Factor 5 did on N64.

Fragamemnon · « **Reply #21 on:** July 05, 2007, 04:21:26 PM »

Quote from: dcharlie on July 05, 2007, 01:16:42 AM

I wonder what Crysis will ship on? it's twice as good looking as anything on PS3, so it must ship on 2 bluray disks!

Eh, to be fair (and not saying I don't agree with you on the blu-ray thing, to NEED that much space is silly) Crysis will proably wind up having an install footprint at or beyond the dual-layer DVD max size on the hard drive. Of course, it comes with all the editing tools and doc, which takes up space that it wouldn't occupy on a console game.

Oh, and I bet LAIR is a six or seven hour borefest.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #22 on:** July 05, 2007, 04:22:48 PM »

lair isn't doing anything that couldn't be done on a 360, albeit in a different fashion. factor 5 are the kings of LOD rendering subsystems, which effectively manage and prioritize what polygons and details are actually rendered -- the complexity is an elegantly managed illusion. the rest is all just a set of great procedural rendering algorithms.

Mupepe · « **Reply #23 on:** July 05, 2007, 04:54:08 PM »

the game is beautiful, too bad it looks boring as balls

$till LegendaryU2K · « **Reply #24 on:** July 05, 2007, 06:16:22 PM »

Quote from: Mondain on July 04, 2007, 10:14:38 AM

http://www.gametrailers.com/player/21218.html?r=1&type=wmv

Have you seen this? The models, the draw distance, the amount of polygons pushed on screen, the gorgeous-looking water streams, the THOUSANDS of individually displayed and animated AI</b>

Why you so hype, are you one of those graphic freaks?

futami · « **Reply #25 on:** July 05, 2007, 09:14:02 PM »

Quote from: Professor Prole on July 05, 2007, 04:22:48 PM

lair isn't doing anything that couldn't be done on a 360, albeit in a different fashion. factor 5 are the kings of LOD rendering subsystems, which effectively manage and prioritize what polygons and details are actually rendered -- the complexity is an elegantly managed illusion. the rest is all just a set of great procedural rendering algorithms.

when there's something comparable, you'll have a point. until then, the tired "it's nothing that can't be done on the 360" refrain is baseless fanboy spin.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #26 on:** July 05, 2007, 09:23:22 PM »

more importantly, factor 5 has always been a tech first company, even back in the amiga days -- they were a key player in the demo scene, and have always emphasized hardware tricks over mechanics. they make scene engines first, and crippled games second. in that vein, does rogue leader -- 60 fps, high-poly reference models, shader effects -- make the gamecube equal to or more powerful than an xbox?

futami · « **Reply #27 on:** July 05, 2007, 09:25:30 PM »

Quote from: Billy Rygar on July 05, 2007, 09:18:54 PM

It's not fanboy spin. Drinky is saying that Lair's strengths have more to do with the developer (Factor 5) than with the specific hardware. Not every dev team is created equal.

there is absolutely nothing on the 360, of comparable scope, that looks as good.

lair looks as good as gears of war, with a scope that's measurably larger.

now, perhaps the 360 CAN churn out something of similar scope and visuals.

to date, it hasn't, making the "it can be done on the 360" argument groundless.

Smooth Groove · « **Reply #28 on:** July 05, 2007, 09:55:20 PM »

Quote from: futami on July 05, 2007, 09:25:30 PM

lair looks as good as gears of war, with a scope that's measurably larger.

That kind of exagerration is on the level of PS2=Toy Story graphics. If I didn't know you were dead serious, I would think that you were mocking the typical Sony hyperbole. I doubt that even the fastest quad-core PC with 8800GTX SLI can render a game like Lair with Gears of War detail.

Van Cruncheon · « **Reply #29 on:** July 05, 2007, 10:28:38 PM »

the scope is the result of procedural terrain and texture algorithms, and the massive number of onscreen units are the result of top-notch LOD programming and brush implementation. no reason the 360 couldn't do it with equal (or better) fidelity; it's just no-one else is trying. factor 5 builds engines first and games second; as i said, they're old demo scene coders and they like to really show off their prowess. unfortunately, their game design skills aren't up to their programming abilities.

care to show me a game on the xbox that has the amount of units, effects and detail onscreen that rogue leader on the gamecube demonstrates?

drohne · « **Reply #30 on:** July 05, 2007, 11:50:41 PM »

the snes turrican games are pretty awesome -- i suppose the amiga ones must have been too. and their hideous tropical europalettes spoiled their visual appeal, so this isn't graphics whoring.

i'mo buy lair. that's graphics whoring.

futami · « **Reply #31 on:** July 06, 2007, 08:38:51 AM »

Quote from: Smooth Groove on July 05, 2007, 09:55:20 PM

Quote from: futami on July 05, 2007, 09:25:30 PM

lair looks as good as gears of war, with a scope that's measurably larger.

That kind of exagerration is on the level of PS2=Toy Story graphics. If I didn't know you were dead serious, I would think that you were mocking the typical Sony hyperbole. I doubt that even the fastest quad-core PC with 8800GTX SLI can render a game like Lair with Gears of War detail.

i fucking own gow. i OWN it. while its graphics are unprecedented, for consoles, it has been trumped by what factor 5 looks to deliver to the ps3 this fall.

give me a fucking break.

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Author Topic: Christ, Lair is so damn beautiful! (Read 4634 times)