Author Topic: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?  (Read 4281 times)

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FlameOfCallandor

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TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« on: July 10, 2007, 05:27:21 PM »
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Glasgow_International_Airport_attack


Quote
Police identified the two men as Bilal Abdullah, a British-born, Muslim doctor of Iraqi descent working at the Royal Alexandra Hospital, and Kafeel Ahmed, also known as Khalid Ahmed, the driver, who was treated for severe burns at the same hospital.

 :o
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 05:32:08 PM by FlameOfCallandor »

Mandark

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Re: Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2007, 05:31:41 PM »
Who, exactly are you refuting, dingus?

http://www.amazon.com/Dying-Win-Strategic-Suicide-Terrorism/dp/1400063175  Buy and read, or shut up.

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2007, 05:31:58 PM »
to TVC

Van Cruncheon

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2007, 05:36:08 PM »
Most international terrorists are middle-to-upper class educated types who believe in altruism and an intellectual defense of their values. It's rationality taken to an insane extreme: that the most effective method to get the attention their cause celebre needs is through an act of suicidal violence. Terrorism takes long-term thinking within extreme cultural and political climates, the likes of which we much less frequently see in the United States due to our wealth and climate.
duc

TVC15

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2007, 05:38:07 PM »
Yeah, I'm not sure what you be saying, holmes.
serge

Van Cruncheon

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2007, 05:41:41 PM »
do you do ANY thinking/research before you post, FoC
duc

TVC15

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2007, 05:45:07 PM »
He's probably referring to comments I have made in the past about the violence rampant in the middle east is at least partially driven by the harsh economic conditions.  What this has to do with terrorist attacks in London, I do not know.  He has said that he doesn't care so much about things that do not happen in AMERIKKKA, so it is possible he thinks London is in Palestine.
serge

Mandark

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2007, 05:47:31 PM »
According to Mark Steyn, in 15 years London will be Palestine!



So FoC, what's the theory you're proposing?  Terrorism is caused by people being Muslim?  Eh?

Human Snorenado

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2007, 05:51:35 PM »
Guys, seriously.  Stop trying to talk to it like it's a real person.
yar

Mandark

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2007, 05:54:53 PM »
He's too stubborn and stupid to learn anything, sure.

But without a whipping boy to draw all the seething lefty ire at EB, we'd turn on our own, and you don't want that, Mrs. Taibbi.

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2007, 05:58:53 PM »
I am not sayign that being a Muslim makes you a terrorist, but the ISlam religion seems to be more open to people who want to comitt "terrotist acts" Of all the acts in the past few years, London, Madrid, Bali (twice), Glasgow etc.. All have one thing in Common. You don't see Buddhist or Jewish people strapping bombs to themeselves to prove a point. I realize it's a small minortiy, but why does the silent majority not setp up and do something about it?

Human Snorenado

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2007, 05:59:18 PM »
He's too stubborn and stupid to learn anything, sure.

But without a whipping boy to draw all the seething lefty ire at EB, we'd turn on our own, and you don't want that, Mrs. Taibbi.

*resumes peeing in FoC's mouth*
yar

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2007, 06:00:56 PM »
He's too stubborn and stupid to learn anything, sure.

But without a whipping boy to draw all the seething lefty ire at EB, we'd turn on our own, and you don't want that, Mrs. Taibbi.

*resumes peeing in FoC's mouth*

Because you often have something meaningful to say.

Did you find anyone unlucky fool to employ you yet?

FlameOfCallandor

  • The Walking Dead
Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2007, 06:01:55 PM »
He's probably referring to comments I have made in the past about the violence rampant in the middle east is at least partially driven by the harsh economic conditions.  What this has to do with terrorist attacks in London, I do not know.  He has said that he doesn't care so much about things that do not happen in AMERIKKKA, so it is possible he thinks London is in Palestine.

Ok, what causes people to commit terrorist acts?

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #14 on: July 10, 2007, 06:04:13 PM »
He's probably referring to comments I have made in the past about the violence rampant in the middle east is at least partially driven by the harsh economic conditions.  What this has to do with terrorist attacks in London, I do not know.  He has said that he doesn't care so much about things that do not happen in AMERIKKKA, so it is possible he thinks London is in Palestine.

Ok, what causes people to commit terrorist acts?

<clicks wikipedia link.  Clicks attacker's name>

Quote
It has been reported that his motive was to avenge the death of a friend killed in the Iraq War by a Shia death squad,[1] hate against the West over Palestine, and that he had been radicalized by the teachings of al Qaeda and al-Zarqawi.

Ta da!
serge

Human Snorenado

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #15 on: July 10, 2007, 06:04:38 PM »
He's too stubborn and stupid to learn anything, sure.

But without a whipping boy to draw all the seething lefty ire at EB, we'd turn on our own, and you don't want that, Mrs. Taibbi.

*resumes peeing in FoC's mouth*

Because you often have something meaningful to say.

Did you find anyone unlucky fool to employ you yet?

I'm not LOOKING for any unlucky fool to employ me.  I probably have the same job as you- freelance video editor and occasional PA.  I can work like one week out of the month this way and make enough money for my lazy self to live on.
yar

CajoleJuice

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #16 on: July 10, 2007, 06:05:10 PM »
He's too stubborn and stupid to learn anything, sure.

But without a whipping boy to draw all the seething lefty ire at EB, we'd turn on our own, and you don't want that, Mrs. Taibbi.

*resumes peeing in FoC's mouth*

Because you often have something meaningful to say.

Did you find anyone unlucky fool to employ you yet?

I'm not LOOKING for any unlucky fool to employ me.  I probably have the same job as you- freelance video editor and occasional PA.  I can work like one week out of the month this way and make enough money for my lazy self to live on.

How does one get this job?
AMC

Human Snorenado

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #17 on: July 10, 2007, 06:06:13 PM »
He's probably referring to comments I have made in the past about the violence rampant in the middle east is at least partially driven by the harsh economic conditions.  What this has to do with terrorist attacks in London, I do not know.  He has said that he doesn't care so much about things that do not happen in AMERIKKKA, so it is possible he thinks London is in Palestine.

Ok, what causes people to commit terrorist acts?

<clicks wikipedia link.  Clicks attacker's name>

Quote
It has been reported that his motive was to avenge the death of a friend killed in the Iraq War by a Shia death squad,[1] hate against the West over Palestine, and that he had been radicalized by the teachings of al Qaeda and al-Zarqawi.

Ta da!

No way, TVC.  It has to be because they're Islamic.  And hate freedom.

And Cajole, one gets that job by knowing the right people and fucking around with final cut pro enough.
yar

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #18 on: July 10, 2007, 06:07:27 PM »
Quote
It has been reported that his motive was to avenge the death of a friend killed in the Iraq War by a Shia death squad,hate against the West over Palestine, and that he had been radicalized by the teachings of al Qaeda and al-Zarqawi

 :o

Wait wait wait, He bombed a airport in Glasgow because his friend was killed by a Shia death squad?  ???

Yea, I bet the people at the airport were somehow connected.
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 06:10:35 PM by FlameOfCallandor »

TVC15

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #19 on: July 10, 2007, 06:10:59 PM »
Quote
hate against the West over Palestine, and that he had been radicalized by the teachings of al Qaeda and al-Zarqawi

 :o


Yes, radicalization by a terrorist organization, and political views that jive with those of the same terrorist organization.
serge

Mandark

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #20 on: July 10, 2007, 06:12:54 PM »
He's probably referring to comments I have made in the past about the violence rampant in the middle east is at least partially driven by the harsh economic conditions.  What this has to do with terrorist attacks in London, I do not know.  He has said that he doesn't care so much about things that do not happen in AMERIKKKA, so it is possible he thinks London is in Palestine.

Ok, what causes people to commit terrorist acts?



Do you actually want to find out the answer, or do you think you already have it?  Serious question.

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #21 on: July 10, 2007, 06:14:27 PM »
Ok now we are getting somewhere. Yes I agree that political views are the main problem here. But there seems to be a trend amongst muslims that are very radical and parallel extreme ideas within the muslim faith.

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #22 on: July 10, 2007, 06:15:49 PM »

Do you actually want to find out the answer, or do you think you already have it?  Serious question.

Of course I want to know. You guys think that you have me pinned down, but in reality I am trying to understand the situation. If one sees a bunch of terrorist acts by a certain group of people in the name of Allah, what conclusions can be drawn from that? There might be a link, yes?

CajoleJuice

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #23 on: July 10, 2007, 06:16:45 PM »
He's probably referring to comments I have made in the past about the violence rampant in the middle east is at least partially driven by the harsh economic conditions.  What this has to do with terrorist attacks in London, I do not know.  He has said that he doesn't care so much about things that do not happen in AMERIKKKA, so it is possible he thinks London is in Palestine.

Ok, what causes people to commit terrorist acts?

<clicks wikipedia link.  Clicks attacker's name>

Quote
It has been reported that his motive was to avenge the death of a friend killed in the Iraq War by a Shia death squad,[1] hate against the West over Palestine, and that he had been radicalized by the teachings of al Qaeda and al-Zarqawi.

Ta da!

No way, TVC.  It has to be because they're Islamic.  And hate freedom.

And Cajole, one gets that job by knowing the right people and fucking around with final cut pro enough.

How about sucking some D?
AMC

Mandark

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #24 on: July 10, 2007, 06:23:01 PM »
Of course I want to know. You guys think that you have me pinned down, but in reality I am trying to understand the situation.If one sees a bunch of terrorist acts by a certain group of people in the name of Allah, what conclusions can be drawn from that? There might be a link, yes?

Read what you just wrote, dude.

First two sentences: I'm open to ideas!  I'm trying to figure it out!  I don't have the answers, I need input and guidance and information!

Second two sentences: But I really think it's because of Islam.  I mean, it is, right?

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #25 on: July 10, 2007, 06:24:06 PM »
He's probably referring to comments I have made in the past about the violence rampant in the middle east is at least partially driven by the harsh economic conditions.  What this has to do with terrorist attacks in London, I do not know.  He has said that he doesn't care so much about things that do not happen in AMERIKKKA, so it is possible he thinks London is in Palestine.

Ok, what causes people to commit terrorist acts?

<clicks wikipedia link.  Clicks attacker's name>

Quote
It has been reported that his motive was to avenge the death of a friend killed in the Iraq War by a Shia death squad,[1] hate against the West over Palestine, and that he had been radicalized by the teachings of al Qaeda and al-Zarqawi.

Ta da!

{{citation needed}}
乱学者

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #26 on: July 10, 2007, 06:25:32 PM »
Of course I want to know. You guys think that you have me pinned down, but in reality I am trying to understand the situation.If one sees a bunch of terrorist acts by a certain group of people in the name of Allah, what conclusions can be drawn from that? There might be a link, yes?

Read what you just wrote, dude.

First two sentences: I'm open to ideas!  I'm trying to figure it out!  I don't have the answers, I need input and guidance and information!

Second two sentences: But I really think it's because of Islam.  I mean, it is, right?

It's the conclusion that makes the most sense to me. I am open for further evidence to enlighten me. Please feel free. I really dont have an agenda or anything.

TVC15

  • Laugh when you can, it’s cheap medicine -LB
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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #27 on: July 10, 2007, 06:27:22 PM »
I don't think it can be denied that there is a religious component to some terrorism, but the way you make it sound, they hand out IEDs at mosques, FoC.
serge

Human Snorenado

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #28 on: July 10, 2007, 06:27:45 PM »
Of course I want to know. You guys think that you have me pinned down, but in reality I am trying to understand the situation.If one sees a bunch of terrorist acts by a certain group of people in the name of Allah, what conclusions can be drawn from that? There might be a link, yes?

Read what you just wrote, dude.

First two sentences: I'm open to ideas!  I'm trying to figure it out!  I don't have the answers, I need input and guidance and information!

Second two sentences: But I really think it's because of Islam.  I mean, it is, right?

It's the conclusion that makes the most sense to me. I am open for further evidence to enlighten me. Please feel free. I really dont have an agenda or anything, other than trying to paint all muslims as terrorists.

.
yar

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #29 on: July 10, 2007, 06:31:13 PM »
I don't think it can be denied that there is a religious component to some terrorism, but the way you make it sound, they hand out IEDs at mosques, FoC.


I'm sorry if that's how I come across. I can be a little blunt at times. No, I know that the majority of people ine the world are just trying to get by. But to deny that there is any religions component would be silly and sometimes I feel that it is not PC to mention it.

TVC15

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #30 on: July 10, 2007, 06:34:31 PM »
It's no "not PC" to mention it.  Al Qaeda's would identify itself as a sunni organization.  It is however, not PC to believe that any significant number of muslims are affiliated with terrorism.
serge

Van Cruncheon

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #31 on: July 10, 2007, 06:37:11 PM »
I am not sayign that being a Muslim makes you a terrorist, but the ISlam religion seems to be more open to people who want to comitt "terrotist acts" Of all the acts in the past few years, London, Madrid, Bali (twice), Glasgow etc.. All have one thing in Common. You don't see Buddhist or Jewish people strapping bombs to themeselves to prove a point. I realize it's a small minortiy, but why does the silent majority not setp up and do something about it?

because, you fatuous troll, the following occurs:

1. Harsh climate and economic conditions turn everyone into selfish, short-term thinkers, culturally.
1a. They also develop closer family and community bonds as a means to survive. see: basic sociology.

2. Religion (or any dogmatic rhetoric) exploits short-term thinkers by using long-term thinkers (educated clerics, family leaders and intellectuals) to guide them.
2a. Angry communities and regions want angry arch-conservative religion, and vice versa.

3. Violence inevitably breaks out in a poor shitty region. Lines get drawn.
3a. Religious and intellectual acumens take advantage of that violence, and they feed each other.

4. Eventually, the educated leaders buy into their own shit so heavily that they decide to employ long-term tactics, which we call TERRORISM.

The root of sectarian violence and terrorism is poverty and harsh living conditions. Religion is just a facilitating component that allows educated leaders to organize and marshal the poor and suffering to their own ends. Give your precious Tex-ass the living conditions and general poverty level of Lebanon, and watch Bill O'Reilly start spewing bile about "them vi'lent Christianityists".
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 08:33:28 PM by Professor Prole »
duc

Mandark

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #32 on: July 10, 2007, 06:43:35 PM »
It's the conclusion that makes the most sense to me. I am open for further evidence to enlighten me. Please feel free. I really dont have an agenda or anything.

It's the conclusion that makes sense to you BASED ON YOUR OWN STAGGERING IGNORANCE.

Either you feel you have enough information to draw a conclusion, and you defend that conclusion (like you do here ALL THE TIME), or you feel you don't have enough information, so you seek it out from different sources, including ones that argue against your own intuitions and biases (like you do NEVER).

As far as I can tell, you haven't read shit on the history of the ME, the recent history of political Islam, the psychology of suicide terrorism, the use of political violence in Europe or Asia, anti-colonial independence movements, or any of that shit.

You decided to pick a conclusion right from the start, and if you're wrong, then it's someone else's responsibility to track down all the relevant information, give you links, hold your hand and explain it to you.

I'm not saying you have to read like an expert, but you're not showing ANY level of curiosity.  All you've got is a stubborn defensiveness when people point out how very very little you've actually bothered to learn.

Van Cruncheon

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #33 on: July 10, 2007, 06:45:58 PM »
Even worse, even though he expects us to do his work for him, he refuses to listen and keeps parroting the same uneducated dogma he started with!
duc

TVC15

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #34 on: July 10, 2007, 06:47:36 PM »
Even worse, even though he expects us to do his work for him, he refuses to listen and keeps parroting the same uneducated dogma he started with!

Yeah, it's kinda why I'm being extra lazy here.  It feels like this is the 8th time we've had the exact same discussion. 
serge

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #35 on: July 10, 2007, 06:48:54 PM »
I dont know, yall never really tell me anything that doesnt amount to "Hur hur, FOC is racist"

I pretty much agree with TVC about the whole thing.

Quote
I don't think it can be denied that there is a religious component to some terrorism, but the way you make it sound, they hand out IEDs at mosques, FoC.

I don't think every muslim is, but I do think there is a small "problem" within the religion at the moment. Is this inoccrect?
« Last Edit: July 10, 2007, 06:50:55 PM by FlameOfCallandor »

TVC15

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #36 on: July 10, 2007, 06:55:29 PM »
I don't think it is safe to assume there is a problem with the religion.  I think the religion is used in cases to justify otherwise unjustifiable actions, but I think the root causes are different entirely.  On an organization level, terrorism is likely about power and recognition.  That's why the groups form. On a personal level, I think terrorist organizations prey on down-on-their luck, disgruntled, or disaffected folks for recruitment, using the guise of religion to give an otherwise radical cause an element of familiarity and legitimacy.
serge

FlameOfCallandor

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #37 on: July 10, 2007, 06:57:48 PM »
I don't think it is safe to assume there is a problem with the religion.  I think the religion is used in cases to justify otherwise unjustifiable actions, but I think the root causes are different entirely.  On an organization level, terrorism is likely about power and recognition.  That's why the groups form. On a personal level, I think terrorist organizations prey on down-on-their luck, disgruntled, or disaffected folks for recruitment, using the guise of religion to give an otherwise radical cause an element of familiarity and legitimacy.

I can agree with this. But why is it more prevalent amongst certain religions.

TVC15

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #38 on: July 10, 2007, 07:01:39 PM »
I don't think it is safe to assume there is a problem with the religion.  I think the religion is used in cases to justify otherwise unjustifiable actions, but I think the root causes are different entirely.  On an organization level, terrorism is likely about power and recognition.  That's why the groups form. On a personal level, I think terrorist organizations prey on down-on-their luck, disgruntled, or disaffected folks for recruitment, using the guise of religion to give an otherwise radical cause an element of familiarity and legitimacy.

I can agree with this. But why is it more prevalent amongst certain religions.

The main cause is probably that the middle east is a shitty part of the world.  I recall reading (and maybe Mandark could help me out here), that many or most of the European muslims that become terrorists are radicalized when they visit the middle east.  I think that suggests that the radicalization process has something to do with seeing how lousy that part of the world has it, and people being people, they will of course focus on their own culture.  I think that line of thought would lead to disaffection in a lot of people, even very smart people, and that makes them ripe for the pickin'.
serge

Van Cruncheon

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #39 on: July 10, 2007, 07:12:42 PM »
FoC, did you even read my explanation? Islam services a POOR, UNEDUCATED, UNDERRESOURCED, HEAVILY TRIBALIZED REGION. Stick Texas smack-dab in the Middle East and watch it turn into fucking Christian Lebanon over night!
duc

Howard Alan Treesong

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #40 on: July 10, 2007, 07:20:15 PM »
J Michael Stracynski solved this problem in Rising Stars #16 ("Selah") when one of the Specials used her powers to turn the Middle East into a fertile, arable paradise.

Fighting stopped overnight, everyone felt bad about being such terrorist jerks, peace reigned on Earth, and Jews and Muslims lived together as one.

why we haven't implemented his obvious solution yet is beyond me

(he goes on to solve nuclear disarmament, world hunger, and the issue of cheaper prescription drugs from canada in the final third of the series. no, really)
乱学者

Mandark

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Re: TVC, Terrorism caused by people being poor?
« Reply #41 on: July 10, 2007, 07:44:03 PM »
I dont know, yall never really tell me anything that doesnt amount to "Hur hur, FOC is racist"

Maybe that's because

1) It's not our responsibility to remedy your ignorance.  If you want a tutor, we'll negotiate rates.

2) When we do try (see the Professor's summary in #31) you just ignore it.


Look, if you want to learn, then start here:  http://www.danieldrezner.com/research/guest/Pape1.pdf


If you don't want to learn, fine.  You don't have any obligation to to become more informed than you are, and apathy's a legit personal choice.  But if you deliberately choose to be ignorant, then please SHUT UP about it.  It's only polite.